# taz.de -- Spotlight Populism: „We have to keep facts important“ | |
> Conversation beteween two journalists on „How to survive pupulism“ – | |
> during a coffee break. | |
Bild: Matteo Salvini, leader of the Lega Nord political party delivers a speech… | |
E: I have to write something on how to survive populism but I really don't | |
know what I could write.. It seems to me that everything we can write is | |
quite obvious.. | |
Z: Well, you know.. First we have to understand what we mean by populism. | |
There is not only one kind of populism, there is a left wing one and a | |
right wing one. | |
E: Yes but for me there is ONE common definition, populism means easy | |
answers to difficult questions. Leftwing or rightwing parties all share | |
this feature. But it’s not only that…. It's clear that populist leaders | |
don't hesitate to ride every issue which brings votes to their party. Look | |
at what happens here, in Italy. We have two movements which can be defined | |
as populist: Lega Nord and Movimento 5 Stelle. They have very different | |
origins, they are actually very different but their leaders agree on the | |
issue of migration. They both said that all irregular migrants should be | |
thrown out from our country. That is exactly what I mean by simple answers | |
to difficult questions. From my point of view, expelling all irregular | |
migrants is not only deeply unfair but it is also impossible. But Salvini | |
and Grillo said exactly this! | |
Z: I bet they did! That happended immediately after Italian police shot | |
dead Anis Amri the tunisian terrorist who killed 12 people in Berlin. He | |
travelled easily throughout most of Europe, with no control at all. | |
E: But this is Shengen law and it's one of the main achievements of the | |
European Union. | |
Z: It’s true, but think of how easy it is to attack this law. How easy it | |
is to say that we will solve all our problems by getting rid of all | |
irregular immigrants, closing borders and rejecting foreigners.. If people | |
want easy answers these are the easiest answers they can get. Think about | |
Trump saying he would have built the wall with Mexico. | |
E: But what if these answers are wrong? | |
Z: It’s about the future. Populism deals with the present and the fear of | |
our time. And what is worst and makes populism very difficult to defeat is | |
that there is something real and tangible underlying people’s fears. Too | |
many immigrants can be a problem, globalization can have bitter costs, | |
strong unemployment and shitty jobs for the so called middle class ARE real | |
problems! If these problems are ignored by politics or underestimated, | |
populism will rise… | |
E: Are you saying that there is something good in populism? | |
Z: No, I’m not. I'm saying that in order to defeat it, politics and parties | |
should do a better job. They should listen to people’s problems and fears | |
and try to change things and solve problems. Our world is more and more | |
unequal. Rich are richer, poor are poorer and the middle class becomes more | |
and more unsecure and unstable. That's not good | |
E: I see, questions and problems are real, answers can be wrong, easy and | |
dangerous.. But do you think that we as journalist can do something? If | |
something goes wrong or false we should tell or write. | |
Z: It’s not just a matter of what is true and what is false, it’s a matter | |
of how people feel and interpret reality. We have already talked about it…. | |
Do you remember? | |
E: When? | |
Z: Last year, IPSOS (a global market research and a consulting firm) | |
released a really impressive survey. In Italy immigrants are 9 percent of | |
the population, but Italian people thought there were many more, about 30 | |
Percent. So, 9 is the real datum, 30 is the perception of reality. This is | |
not a slight difference because it changes the way people see reality. | |
Populism takes advantage of this gap between the reality and the perception | |
of reality and it fuels the flames of discontent and of the real problems. | |
So, good journalism tries to bridge this gap and to tell facts as they | |
really are. | |
E: It’s hard… Sticking to the truth in the era of post truth politics.. | |
when facts are apparently not that important is a hard job. | |
Z: We have to struggle to keep facts important. It’s a hard job and it’s | |
even harder because the web and social media are full of information – also | |
wrong information – and if we want people to read us or watch us, we must | |
offer something more and something better. We must do our best! But it’s | |
challenging and worth doing… | |
E: So let’s go back to work! | |
Enrica Toninelli is deputy director of Italian public TV allnews channel | |
Rainews24. For many years head of the foreign affair desk. | |
28 Mar 2017 | |
## AUTOREN | |
Enrica Toninelli | |
## TAGS | |
Spotlight Populism in Europe | |
taz international | |
taz in English | |
Populismus | |
Beppe Grillo | |
Lega Nord | |
Fashion | |
USA | |
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