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Post AyI7NHoOG6qjh52aUC by [email protected]
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Post #AyHwhVlD0azrFbzh8S by [email protected]
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npm was a mistake. the concept of pulling live dependencies that are not collec…
Post #AyHxyMbKPr3FijyKzw by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea well, isn’t that mostly on the consumer? Would you feel the same…
Post #AyHxyMiPzUis4jI036 by [email protected]
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@VioletBackpack “would you feel the same way if the circumstances were utterl…
Post #AyHyymYzzKfsCCe7eq by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea I wonder why maven is not constantly detonating into our faces like…
Post #AyHz02gpW5HiV4uTh2 by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea compounded by the way npm (client) does version management—not us…
Post #AyHz045KKUTSpLNYW0 by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea and the prodigious use of npx makes things even worse! It might use…
Post #AyHz1ATS3oAyvrBmYi by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea I struggle with this take because I very much succeeded at contribu…
Post #AyHzpMlocLxfXziOEi by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea It's true that taking random dependencies without thought for h…
Post #AyI0dksvEZs8oh4B28 by [email protected]
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@dougwade @0xabad1dea PyPi, Pub, etc have similar issues, but it is also at the…
Post #AyI0dl0ila6vCsiPBo by [email protected]
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@zeyus @0xabad1dea I think you very much understand my conflict. My needs as a …
Post #AyI0dl7oLDmXYs24Ey by [email protected]
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@dougwade @zeyus I think there is a most right answer but it involves a lot of …
Post #AyI2gA8qV6DZdXn3Oy by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea This. Thank you for calling it out. Can we also kill pip please? …
Post #AyI2iIy8eTgBaqnsg4 by [email protected]
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@dougwade @0xabad1deaNo offence but your words sound naive to me. Trusting tha…
Post #AyI2iJ5aCndNxwHpHU by [email protected]
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@TrimTab @0xabad1dea if your only goal is to produce secure systems, I can unde…
Post #AyI2kmqKYGwCpEKot6 by [email protected]
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@DJGummikuh @0xabad1dea It could be attributed to a different attack surface an…
Post #AyI2mNbXMKvd81Au4e by [email protected]
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@malwareminigun apt packages are usually months or years behind what you can ge…
Post #AyI2mPdjn7sRRQDgmW by [email protected]
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@E_net4 @0xabad1dea interesting point
Post #AyI2nljJ9CFCF1TK7s by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea I would have just stopped after the first sentence. 🙃But also so…
Post #AyI45if7OJFttUdTIe by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea npm is a bloody _nightmare_ if you're serious about security (P…
Post #AyI46tgNu2dyMYn0uO by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea Welcome to the Crapness, THE CRAPNESS, of ModernSoftware[TM] !
Post #AyI7NHoOG6qjh52aUC by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea CPAN, Ruby Gems, and Pypi really blazed this trail
Post #AyI7PgJ0A9H6EsV7kO by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea I still have a cpan.org email 😬
Post #AyI7PiNKT1vOesXblo by [email protected]
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@mcgrew @0xabad1dea using predefined modules isn’t a bad thing in general. Of…
Post #AyI7QsNUlMq3yFAl1c by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea @malwareminigun in addition there is also a distribution adjacent m…
Post #AyIAZ34HCXpRIvlu08 by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea nobody enforces to use all packages. It's like PIP
Post #AyIBIpFOuz17lGnrM0 by [email protected]
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I’m not saying “fuck hobbyists and beginners” I’m saying maybe the code…
Post #AyICJX0yIBelSPxEeW by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea Sure, but the amount of code written by hobbyists that is also part…
Post #AyICJX7LuSlDmCwKbA by [email protected]
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@tribut "there's too much hobbyist code in critical infrastructure to …
Post #AyICUmI5puUu1MKFbk by [email protected]
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@[email protected] how is that npm specific??
Post #AyICUmRfGK9aV2ntWi by [email protected]
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@m .... who said it was???? "x was a mistake" does not imply it's…
Post #AyICkMRjh2BuV0Gaki by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea *Especially* when coupled with dependencies not being hard-bound to…
Post #AyIDuKukLOdgb69lS4 by [email protected]
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sorry to everyone engaging on a reasonable basis but I have to mute this thread…
Post #AyIDuL3boRjD2aIqGW by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea pancake waffle? As in argue whether a waffle is a pancake or not?
Post #AyIDuLEb9aWDafRcOW by [email protected]
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@arichtman @0xabad1dea it's the ol' "oh you like pancakes? so you …
Post #AyIDuLNScdbk29ahCy by [email protected]
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@arch @arichtman in this case I'm getting a pretty funny variant:"I do…
Post #AyIDuNH9Z3kbvAegee by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea oh dang I sniped myself here. *is* a waffle a pancake variant?
Post #AyIDuTaA7IWNTrax7I by [email protected]
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@arch @0xabad1dea oh okay, thank you!
Post #AyIDvCovvE4hmhqst6 by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea yeah every company I know that has thought about this for more than…
Post #AyIDvDNJrNa3VLwLU8 by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea I can count how many I've seen do a *really* thorough job of de…
Post #AyIDw0wRZZn9ETkaXI by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea @tribut the twist ending here is that the non-hobbyist code is wors…
Post #AyIDw14x3wb5erjNnU by [email protected]
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@glyph @0xabad1dea @tribut I'm still waiting for the "good housekeepin…
Post #AyIDwF6WusB79oZqCW by [email protected]
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@gsuberland @0xabad1dea every company I've worked for didn't even bothe…
Post #AyIDwdpiyUadqvuGye by [email protected]
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@wasabi @0xabad1dea I've been doing appsec consulting stuff for 12 years no…
Post #AyIDyyq5qW2da4C7BQ by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea Open Source as a concept should be so well funded by the government…
Post #AyIE0AW7ug2W5ZQDKq by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea In most conversations I'm the one with the doom 'n gloom, b…
Post #AyIE0KjbvOldmHo7k0 by [email protected]
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@DJGummikuh @0xabad1dea Maven Central has some verification steps for "own…
Post #AyIE0XAHi3EaKUNaz2 by [email protected]
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@mrotteveel @DJGummikuh @0xabad1dea Signing etc. might not be harder once you g…
Post #AyIE1cYNA1JRKbAHKa by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea As a product manager who frequently sees the cleanup costs for stuf…
Post #AyIE6WSBGczVrQbcsy by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea @malwareminigun aren't security patch applied to apt package in…
Post #AyIE9wHtfmjQqvQPI0 by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyusi diagnose the root problem as corporate open sourc…
Post #AyIEAknVsVjNVSbMVk by [email protected]
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@[email protected] oh come on, you chose to single out npmnpm is the …
Post #AyIFm0di2cUJJ9LQcS by [email protected]
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@davidgerard @0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus in conclusion, AGPL everything. or, a…
Post #AyIGTd0vF3j2mB09D6 by [email protected]
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@glyph @0xabad1dea @tribut The EU is trying that, right? Does Geomys have stric…
Post #AyIGTxEQ4aPDTpTD1c by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea @arch @arichtman I mute at the first offense these days. Very satis…
Post #AyIGVKOdQs5Bc7u4FU by [email protected]
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@dequbed @0xabad1dea Open Source is actually about five or six different concep…
Post #AyIGWxiIjmpHqMshQO by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea only if you expect the codebase to be of high quality. I can't …
Post #AyIGXBs26OvfkbXfXM by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea @arch @arichtman https://youtu.be/X1beEuBV7M0
Post #AyIHdbMUL6DcVBPNJ2 by [email protected]
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@filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut this is my point. Nobody pays for go. So nobody wo…
Post #AyIHeCJEy8bb5pAnse by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus the entire discussion reminds me of the business c…
Post #AyIHefL12cFz7jE8Aq by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea sorry, I was trying to be reasonable, Im not a fan of npm and wasn�…
Post #AyIHfOXIzlpFIsK54q by [email protected]
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@filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut I think questions about whether e.g. a patreon inc…
Post #AyIJzfyu2nrb6n1vTE by [email protected]
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@david_chisnall Your observations are matching my experience of enterprise work…
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@mainec @0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus do we see this happening yet? if not, why …
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@muhanga The other variation I've seen of this is:Use [A]GPL'd project,…
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@filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut give me right-wing oil-billionaire think-tank leve…
Post #AyIK1IsKvFci1fjbl2 by [email protected]
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@glyph @0xabad1dea @tribut So would strict liability be mandatory, or something…
Post #AyIK1IzQUtIKNf3GoC by [email protected]
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@filippo @glyph @0xabad1dea @tribut at the moment there's no liability at a…
Post #AyIK1J7a0ZogmwrmW8 by [email protected]
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@filippo @glyph @0xabad1dea @tribut our understanding is that courts wouldn&#39…
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@filippo @glyph @0xabad1dea @tribut when software failures cause large-scale ha…
Post #AyIK405ZE8R2d4D248 by [email protected]
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@filippo @glyph @0xabad1dea @tribut Under the CRA the person “placing the pro…
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@ireneista @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut from what I can tell the main thing tha…
Post #AyILFE0vtSJgxOxR9U by [email protected]
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@glyph @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut yes, agreed
Post #AyILHUIUK9Xq2OFQx6 by [email protected]
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@ireneista @filippo @glyph @0xabad1dea @tribut well, the cyber resiliency act i…
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@filippo @glyph @0xabad1dea @tribut anyway, we don't claim to know what the…
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@ireneista @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut You are correct that there need to be r…
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@ireneista @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut The principle that I'm advocating f…
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@glyph @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut then, we agree on that part :) (and we don&…
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@ireneista @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut more generally, I think contracts of ad…
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@david_chisnall @davidgerard @0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus there's no better…
Post #AyINHRlxuUPs7G8zLM by [email protected]
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@dougwade @0xabad1dea I would blame more on people working in critical sectors …
Post #AyINJfqgXwBmLrPhrM by [email protected]
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@gcb @davidgerard @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade just throwing hands up and using…
Post #AyIS0R5tgAgWrMAtqS by [email protected]
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@david_chisnall @davidgerard @0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus in all my years, do y…
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@ireneista @glyph @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut I literally just got $1 in *coup…
Post #AyISCsJiI6qqlTZJvE by [email protected]
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@gcb @zeyus @0xabad1dea @david_chisnall @dougwade you're arguing with a Fre…
Post #AyITSg2To9P1Gybfnc by [email protected]
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@david_chisnall @davidgerard @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade good for you, but not…
Post #AyITTnEEYwnrrPdXCS by [email protected]
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@davidgerard @gcb @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade I'm also the maintainer of a…
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@rootwyrm @davidgerard @0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus That's the companies th…
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@gcb @davidgerard @0xabad1dea @david_chisnall @dougwade good for you, but not e…
Post #AyIYkBtN8DaSl0W7ma by [email protected]
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@gcb @davidgerard @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade I'm not sure what that's…
Post #AyIYrueN7XCZbCBPP6 by [email protected]
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@rootwyrm@0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus @davidgerard @david_chisnallEvery company…
Post #AyIYrumWdDiw0Tzv72 by [email protected]
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@bluGill @0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus @david_chisnall @rootwyrm Every company I…
Post #AyIYt0k3xO9smXMuiO by [email protected]
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@david_chisnall @davidgerard @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade your points focus on …
Post #AyIYvzXis5D9vq1AfI by [email protected]
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@zeyus not sure what's your point, but that's great to hear. bsd/mit li…
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@david_chisnall @gcb @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade > complex legal structures…
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@VioletBackpack you were not the person who got me annoyed enough to mute the t…
Post #AyIafZq6rt7HUNv2Lw by [email protected]
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@gcb @zeyus @0xabad1dea @david_chisnall @dougwade "too haaard" is a f…
Post #AyIaieGwqLTm6dw9Z2 by [email protected]
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@gcb but I am not a corporation, and I'm happy for people to use what I mak…
Post #AyIalJD5bnQteSOtxQ by [email protected]
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@DJGummikuh @0xabad1dea Publishing to Maven Central is more complicated. (Most …
Post #AyIanD5NLlNNEhhPJg by [email protected]
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@davidgerard @gcb @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade you keep hammering on this, is y…
Post #AyIanNH5T4gapvFtxY by [email protected]
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@davidgerard@0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus @david_chisnall @rootwyrmMy company cu…
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I mean, because it's had like 100 compromised packages in the last 100 days…
Post #AyIb7iyyT63VxCUFw8 by [email protected]
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@m I also didn’t say I picked it out at random??? it’s in the news due to m…
Post #AyIcaBPSTDPqBK0ano by [email protected]
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@glyph @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut in our childhood, we witnessed several purc…
Post #AyIcaBWC4AnsWD9yIi by [email protected]
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@glyph @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut sorry - not Office, just Word. we're pr…
Post #AyIcaBbrj5LAnnoV8q by [email protected]
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@glyph @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut anyway we're all for the basic idea but…
Post #AyIcaBiFLMRd7anb5U by [email protected]
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I mean, I kinda hate to say it, but I think the way out of this would be someth…
Post #AyIcaBoGyxGVQHcPTs by [email protected]
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@JessTheUnstill @glyph @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut the way out for who, is our…
Post #AyIcaBuIcY5NiyRDsG by [email protected]
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For corporations who want to offload risk onto someone else because they don&#3…
Post #AyIfAXe5TUTpTjJets by [email protected]
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@[email protected] @[email protected] I honestly don…
Post #AyIfCCgoMMrN40Nmwi by [email protected]
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@rootwyrm @david_chisnall @davidgerard @0xabad1dea @dougwade @zeyus yeah, and t…
Post #AyIfEw0qouJ4D63g92 by [email protected]
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@abucci @davidgerard @gcb @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade Users, hobbyists, people…
Post #AyIfHBFt7TvU3zA9Ng by [email protected]
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@zeyus people would have used what you contributed without drama on either lice…
Post #AyIhXTEuDrL8NjbBR2 by [email protected]
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@dougwade @0xabad1deaFair enough, good point. Then i will categorize npm with …
Post #AyIhbhrxlqG2ujt4gi by [email protected]
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@dirksteins @0xabad1dea Naturally there's nothing wrong with having depende…
Post #AyIk9Bgu7D0ervo728 by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea @briankrebs I’ve heard this before. Debian has about 20k packages…
Post #AyMXdbUiDohooQ7Lto by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea It‘s fascinating to me how long it takes even professionals in an…
Post #AyPmmrZXtZB24P8Czw by [email protected]
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@jacques @0xabad1dea @briankrebs: npm also has the disadvantage of being a pack…
Post #AyVMYTHhy3sspT1Zy4 by [email protected]
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@0xabad1dea the sad part is that the hobbyist code given away for free has a lo…
Post #AyXdJsIskjNdcK7RfU by [email protected]
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@david_chisnall @gcb @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade ok. before I continue, do you…
Post #AyXdJsR2GPu01bvxNQ by [email protected]
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@davidgerard @gcb @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade No, though I did way back when I…
Post #AyXdJsXlrNI2MV5KsK by [email protected]
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@david_chisnall @davidgerard @gcb @zeyus @0xabad1dea @dougwade thank you all fo…
Post #AynZnOOrCub2Gy5mqG by [email protected]
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@tribut @ireneista @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo Sometimes I wonder about a speci…
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo we've given this a lot of …
Post #AynZnegoduT6nIcM3U by [email protected]
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@ireneista @dubiousblur At one point there actually was a software PE exam, but…
Post #AynZneoGCEQJAO6Ieu by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @ireneista there was an interesting study by Waterloo university (I…
Post #AynZneuznBoLVHFg9o by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @Mayabotics we have a friend here in BC who did the whole ring cer…
Post #AynZnf1NPSunp4Em6S by [email protected]
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@ireneista @dubiousblur We actually have a similar ring program in the US that …
Post #AynZnsFKEunUq5rb9M by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @ireneista I would be curious about that.At my university, softwar…
Post #AynZnsM3psBXAz0yeG by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur we'd also love to see that study
Post #AynZnsRjUmipSZfVUO by [email protected]
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@ireneista @Mayabotics Patrick Lam’s work on the history of software engineer…
Post #AynZnsYT5k6rnSoszI by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @ireneista @glyph The Waterloo SE program retrospective on licensu…
Post #AynZnsgya6uoDqngFU by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur @ireneista I earnestly think figuring this out (where …
Post #AynZnso49kaQZq7LIe by [email protected]
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@glyph @dubiousblur @ireneista Yeah, it is ridiculously academic at this point.…
Post #AynZnsu5nLPIsWw9h2 by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur @ireneista big mood
Post #AynZnszlSFwbA7agXA by [email protected]
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@ireneista @glyph @Mayabotics it’s good to have ideas for an afterward.
Post #AynZoFCct7Iw2NmGdU by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo ... we're not sure we'…
Post #AynZoFJMU4gyNGve8O by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo professional licensing systems…
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo like, (people with experience,…
Post #AynZoFV3ma38xYOzMu by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo and, also, it's the end of…
Post #AynZoFajRUaRF93WD2 by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo we think the right structure a…
Post #AynZoFgP6P7jWji33A by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo we don't claim to know the…
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@dubiousblur @glyph @Mayabotics in fact, having plans for after the direct conf…
Post #AynZoLEcScSokIkwZk by [email protected]
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@ireneista @glyph @Mayabotics requiring warranties for dangerous things seems l…
Post #AynZoLM40wQ17OEtBA by [email protected]
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@ireneista @Mayabotics @glyph (Tidelift should have mutualised themselves first…
Post #AynZoLSnbto3SHOGg4 by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @Mayabotics @glyph it's flatly ridiculous to have a for-profit…
Post #AynZobKAdkPYe9TbRw by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @Mayabotics though, the legislative push to categorize programming…
Post #AynZobQCHLEQwqIPqK by [email protected]
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@ireneista @dubiousblur I've certainly bounced around on whether licensure …
Post #AynZobWZtcKtGdHVmy by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur so back when we were at Google, our privacy work there…
Post #AynZotILpFeQNilP72 by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo we just also wouldn't want…
Post #AynZotOjRWkshVkV3g by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo we feel like this isn't up…
Post #AynZotVT2U8v2OtsYa by [email protected]
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@ireneista it’s much appreciated, thank you! It’s a difficult problem.
Post #AynZp02IlJyLHyJBZI by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @glyph @dubiousblur we do firmly believe that having this conversat…
Post #AynZp58rmLC77mPzzk by [email protected]
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@ireneista @dubiousblur There was a medical device manufacturer I did some cont…
Post #AynZp5FFOcIZRZP5wO by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur the thing to keep in mind is that software causes real…
Post #AynZp5Kv3WprjA3cmW by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur we're so sorry you got burned by that
Post #AynZp5QaiRNA0ki9ce by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur at the risk of stating the obvious, the code quality o…
Post #AynZpBLqgz90NmXS40 by [email protected]
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@ireneista @dubiousblur At the end of the day, I'm glad I kept patients saf…
Post #AynZpBRWLtgIfNByu8 by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur yes, that makes a ton of sense. we felt an analogous t…
Post #AynZpBXC0oDawxqVkG by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur one of the ways companies extract this kind of labor f…
Post #AynZpBdDeP2TFefK8e by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur we once wrote that the real answer to the trolley prob…
Post #AynZpBitJJZlXFJqym by [email protected]
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@ireneista @Mayabotics often it seems important to ask who’s building the tro…
Post #AynZpG9yoXcZIQ1Xl2 by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @glyph @dubiousblur change is possible, it just requires people to …
Post #AynZpIRmJL2wOCMmmG by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur we're glad you feel that way, and you're very welcome!
Post #AynZpzGb6meXBySxou by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur oh neat! we lived in the US for 40 years and somehow d…
Post #AynZqxAeO1Xwyu93se by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @Mayabotics we have only viewed that situation from considerable d…
Post #AynZr0tQY098We7Mae by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur agreed for sure that these companies are too large. th…
Post #AynZr30wf1Lf6XeOaO by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur we can attest though, there's really not nearly en…
Post #AynZr6bZJJQUEzoBaS by [email protected]
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@tiotasram @glyph @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut those general outlines seem reas…
Post #AynZrCBYYwBTY3gUsK by [email protected]
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@ireneista @glyph @filippo @0xabad1dea @tribut yeah, there are larger societal …
Post #AynZrOstLdyivw3H5U by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur so.... problems on all fronts
Post #AynZrhuIcdOTvnrAQ4 by [email protected]
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@dubiousblur @tribut @glyph @0xabad1dea @filippo again, these are just our pers…
Post #AynZroCFEpJVRCIaDw by [email protected]
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@ireneista @dubiousblur It can't be said often or frequently enough.A coupl…
Post #AynZrqEneIXtlhVeU4 by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @dubiousblur oh, that's horrifying. so awful.
Post #AynZsacTCcoPcQwClU by [email protected]
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@Mayabotics @glyph @dubiousblur that's the key thing that academics can&#39…
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