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Post AyDBe4fXnvpfsjMdLk by [email protected] |
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Post #AyDBe3aXp2EsWw17uy by [email protected] |
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I would like to give an update on "federation" on Bluesky.My expectat… |
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Post #AyDBe3hHPzcurpAVPs by [email protected] |
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The biggest movement on this front has come from the community formerly known a… |
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Post #AyDBe3oMzdIXDoUAT2 by [email protected] |
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What I saw happen when Black Twitter came to Fediverse is attempts to build com… |
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Post #AyDBe3ukbuOzXbTGPg by [email protected] |
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If you sign up with https://blacksky.community you get:- Blacksky's "a… |
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Post #AyDBe41qBY4btamvSq by [email protected] |
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Why does the "relay" matter? Well, because although Bluesky's cla… |
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Post #AyDBe48DnpB4DNm1PU by [email protected] |
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And this is a problem because the Bluesky moderators are *having a time*. This … |
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Post #AyDBe4EbQ6HWXAl7M8 by [email protected] |
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I don't want to talk about Charlie Kirk, so I won't. Skippi… |
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Post #AyDBe4LL13fYs3uUr2 by [email protected] |
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Imagine a hypothetical comic artist, "Gertrude". One day a hypothetic… |
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Post #AyDBe4S4c13bCx3sLw by [email protected] |
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I (me, mcc) never trusted Bluesky, so I've been self-hosting my own PDS fro… |
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Post #AyDBe4YSEIA3Wk2yIa by [email protected] |
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No. Because "Gertrude", in our hypothetical, *won't bother making… |
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Post #AyDBe4fXnvpfsjMdLk by [email protected] |
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@mcc technically mastodon dot social could grow big enough to also become this … |
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Post #AyDBe4qBAOL6PiL7vU by [email protected] |
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And that's why I say, TLDR:- I am legitimately excited about the work being… |
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Post #AyDDMJGoyiw7rXSOoq by [email protected] |
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@lritter I think this happening with m.s is a real risk, but the thing I'd … |
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Post #AyDEqCnPiL46QNWN3w by [email protected] |
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@gbargoud Sure. You could do that. I'm aware of a patch to the PDS (backend… |
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Post #AyDEqCvZE1aSpfKsls by [email protected] |
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@mcc @gbargoud It would seem like maybe this could be mitigated a bit by a (hos… |
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Post #AyDEz6QokKylI9C7Tk by [email protected] |
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@mcc I'm curious, but I haven't had any time to look into this, so if y… |
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Post #AyDF0J1vOIdAef7nai by [email protected] |
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@mcc Oh that is interesting. If they are (or are soon to be) operating their o… |
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Post #AyDF1mKrv2r3plgiFk by [email protected] |
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@mcc we have a bullying problem on Fedi that has been a serious problem for wid… |
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Post #AyDF2T8cmRbuaFI2dc by [email protected] |
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@mcc I am very much waiting to see what Northsky does. I'm not at the point… |
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Post #AyDFPUpAg2XgTRAfZY by [email protected] |
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@mcc it really is a shame that there was all that racism happening. I've be… |
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Post #AyDFUVdv3rKgSbIZiC by [email protected] |
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@mcc Bluesky is a venture capital shit show in the making. The rug pull will h… |
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Post #AyDFakWAfY5EKdeLrc by [email protected] |
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@mcc So what I understand from this is that it would be relatively possible for… |
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Post #AyDFaluJVGzOdnx98K by [email protected] |
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@mcc (Avoiding describing anything as easy for what should be obvious reasons) |
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Post #AyDFkDmnDjAFiAwPlg by [email protected] |
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@mcc May be a stupid question but I don't know enough about ATProto, Activi… |
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Post #AyDFkDtsnMps4AG4oq by [email protected] |
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@gbargoud @mcc My understanding is that wafrn functions that way. |
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Post #AyDFw0Mqw3lJZPQWK8 by [email protected] |
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@mcc thanks for this awesome thread I wasn't interested in bluesky because … |
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Post #AyDG7wJZpUpwTXaLxI by [email protected] |
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@mcc For my own understanding: while the server architecture is different, the … |
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Post #AyDG8zPVnzCqMlrVjM by [email protected] |
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@mcc this is all so incredibly depressing |
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Post #AyDGElFdMW1QBnzg2K by [email protected] |
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@GroupNebula563 @mcc Would be nice! Won't happen though. |
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Post #AyDHN9ZMvmovskn3fk by [email protected] |
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@jrose I mean, observably, a *lot* of servers are outright blocking mastodon.so… |
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Post #AyDHN9hASn3iGwRHpQ by [email protected] |
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@mcc @jrose and I'm pretty sure m.s isn't even close to 51% anyways, wh… |
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Post #AyDHN9nY54AAajQNm4 by [email protected] |
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@megmac @jrose I think the interesting question to me is whether the mastodon g… |
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Post #AyDHNg2CE8tSZQWX32 by [email protected] |
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@mcc Right now, its only Blacksky's feeds and moderation service that are … |
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Post #AyDHNg9dmSqewW0TeS by [email protected] |
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@jdp23 "They're not even running their own appview"I don't un… |
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Post #AyDHNgGNNQEhHP9r9M by [email protected] |
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@mcc it's a client (aka app) that uses an appview -- currently the Bluesky … |
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Post #AyDHNgN6yNcjcIJEeG by [email protected] |
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@jdp23 oh dear. |
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Post #AyDHOHtJTcMnyseyTg by [email protected] |
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@mcc do you think this work (on Blacksky or northsky's part) will lead to m… |
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Post #AyDHOHzL7DBgHZTms4 by [email protected] |
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@aeva "Tower", that's a good word for it.I think observably, the … |
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Post #AyDHOI5ijUI8bMSsoi by [email protected] |
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@aeva The question as always with ATP though is "why?". That is *why*… |
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Post #AyDHOnvYMpAlL5xDPc by [email protected] |
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@mcc @aeva Is there a good breakdown of the overall costs? Like I saw a lightwe… |
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Post #AyDHOvbHq3iN8YX8vw by [email protected] |
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@alter_kaker I'm not the person to ask. I would join the Bluesky API Touche… |
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Post #AyDKoGgesMaJdcowxU by [email protected] |
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@mcc @aeva I continue to be annoyed that whenever anyone brings up legitimate g… |
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Post #AyDKoGmKXH7bvDTTnc by [email protected] |
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@swetland @mcc @aeva because #bluesky operates on the #cryptoBro credo (since b… |
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Post #AyDKoGtQ6unEHCn8qm by [email protected] |
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@benroyce @mcc @aeva I think in this case what's driving most of the adopti… |
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Post #AyDKoGznjBtgazmEnQ by [email protected] |
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@benroyce @mcc @aeva A lot of these folks have had very negative Mastodon (well… |
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Post #AyDKplPs6vPrEUgMCm by [email protected] |
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@swetland @aeva Yeah. I am using the exact alternate infrastructure that the bl… |
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Post #AyDKplVtkWEjXBVAbA by [email protected] |
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@mcc @aeva Even if Blacksky has full coverage of the stack (or will soon), your… |
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Post #AyDKpx8EYKRBZGWRNY by [email protected] |
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@jdp23 @mcc The running cost of the relays, the complexity of their protocol an… |
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Post #AyDKpxEy9HpDu9fosS by [email protected] |
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There's some info about costs in https://infosec.exchange/@thenexusofprivac… |
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Post #AyDKq9vwxJKtGvsJXM by [email protected] |
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@mcc @jrose I suspect their share goes up when there's a mass migration eve… |
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Post #AyDKrUnIskjkG9T55E by [email protected] |
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@cthos @aeva I don't have an answer to this question. I've seen various… |
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Post #AyDKrUuOSOPMc8mk8O by [email protected] |
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@cthos @aeva Every Bluesky replica is, probably without realizing it, making a … |
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Post #AyDKrV047IwetjRGyW by [email protected] |
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@mcc @cthos ah :( I was hoping Blacksky found a way around that problem, but I … |
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Post #AyDKrY6YZcv6WjV00e by [email protected] |
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@megmac @jrose I also suspect the m.s numbers may be inflated as (despite a see… |
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Post #AyDKsOl6o6FtpYs7RA by [email protected] |
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@mcc well, it's incremental implementation. Having their own client lets t… |
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Post #AyDKsOr8Rh4m8FgvpY by [email protected] |
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@jdp23 "Having their own client lets them make different blocking decision… |
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Post #AyDKtA6glgRag6KW6C by [email protected] |
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@swetland @mcc @aeva they unfortunately moved from #twitter to a ticking time b… |
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Post #AyDKttEMzyKIcxGmoq by [email protected] |
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@mcc Blocks are "enforced" at the client level. I know, I know, that… |
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Post #AyDKvOvqcTMbEjKK00 by [email protected] |
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@aeva @mcc looks like Rudy gave the numbers for their PDS here https://blacksky… |
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Post #AyDKvrmzKUVYjeP9iS by [email protected] |
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@jrose From what I've seen, mastodon.social is about 25% of the Fediverse u… |
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Post #AyDKvzzgp9QCBMPPcm by [email protected] |
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@benroyce @mcc @aeva No argument from me on that account. I mean even if they w… |
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Post #AyDKw7g8FkWy11JuFc by [email protected] |
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@mcc @jrose Unless I’m mistaken, mastodon.social isn’t the “official” s… |
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Post #AyDKw8pNypWja0eoJU by [email protected] |
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@aeva @cthos either you rely on bluesky to get the content (meaning you have to… |
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Post #AyDKxEaW382LjaDtZo by [email protected] |
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@alter_kaker @mcc hmm, apparently not that much knowledge is required, and the … |
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Post #AyDOGMQJRQgjOrGKNE by [email protected] |
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@mcc @cthos @aeva I feel like fedi's cost/scaling problem mostly centers ar… |
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Post #AyDOGgUwnuHNf1aJNI by [email protected] |
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@markc568 Yeah, but Mastodon GmbH runs it and also develops Mastodon-the-softwa… |
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Post #AyDOHqRDKk4emIOLYG by [email protected] |
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@esoteric_programmer so this is all within my ability. But what about the rest … |
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Post #AyDOK6lxZZr21BAtKC by [email protected] |
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@jrose Ok, good to know, thank you! |
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Post #AyDOKBZ1l5TqsWA8MS by [email protected] |
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@mcc great thread. I've been thinking about this, and about the ActivityPub… |
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Post #AyDOKQF1BlO6Onurku by [email protected] |
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@swetland that is pretty much the intention of the ATmosphere's design. The… |
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Post #AyDOKYIrDNDDP1m2qm by [email protected] |
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@msh @swetland @gbargoud From what I see, some communities were driven away by … |
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Post #AyDQBrUOiBFoD39hrs by [email protected] |
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@mcc There's also https://plc.directory/, the did:plc: database, also run b… |
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Post #AyDTZbXXxgWRYYdqBU by [email protected] |
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@esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker @mcc This is curious to me, because it looks … |
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Post #AyDTb9V3BZZDAcDCca by [email protected] |
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@[email protected] Something that I also feel is important is that moderation servi… |
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Post #AyDTb9eGdIwJdCWYzI by [email protected] |
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On the flipside however, the fediverse deals with its own moderation problems. … |
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Post #AyDTdbAlGneZZht96G by [email protected] |
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Work by Eurosky and Gander (in Canada) on this front is getting driven by not w… |
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Post #AyDTdjeTkCB5sBqzWy by [email protected] |
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@mcc @cthos @aeva Christine Lemmer-Webber has said in the past that the demands… |
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Post #AyDTe77gTmCofQh8kK by [email protected] |
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@markc568 @mcc @jrose The onboarding process on the official app directs new us… |
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Post #AyDTeA3tYJxPmXweky by [email protected] |
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@benroyce @swetland @mcc @aeva |
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Post #AyDTePGr0QEgx57iXQ by [email protected] |
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@swetland @benroyce @mcc @aeva > end up being a crap deal for the users.That… |
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Post #AyDXlMj5GU3mu4txbM by [email protected] |
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@mcc "tried to adopt Fediverse first and basically got harassed off."… |
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Post #AyDdAUDd2mp59TzEHY by [email protected] |
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@lrhodes there's the other piece that is still totally controlled by bsky p… |
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Post #AyDmS7ioKEXqB83ZGC by [email protected] |
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As an update since posting the above thread I have received replies from two pe… |
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Post #AyDmUXH0IRQg0KCTk8 by [email protected] |
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@lrhodes @esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker oh God so I could have sworn the ear… |
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Post #AyDmUXPVmoEcQiBH0K by [email protected] |
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@mcc @lrhodes @esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker Feel like the best 'simple&… |
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Post #AyDmVt34p0CTpSKXhI by [email protected] |
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@bhasic @benroyce @swetland @mcc @aeva Yup. And get very defensive defending th… |
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Post #AyDt61b17SXkUKowfw by [email protected] |
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@esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker @mcc as I understand it the cost of a relay h… |
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Post #AyDt7BRxy45JL78jZ2 by [email protected] |
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@msh @swetland @mcc @gbargoud I think it is good to keep looking at fediverse&#… |
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Post #AyDt8s6erGQfvQyhQe by [email protected] |
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@swetland @mcc @aeva Yep. Even measuring the degree of decentralisation of the … |
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Post #AyDtBVttsJfbvMGpJQ by [email protected] |
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@mcc @alter_kaker @esoteric_programmer I think the key point is: "Every Bl… |
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Post #AyDtFpagbrXe9NLGZU by [email protected] |
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@mcc @alter_kaker "I would join the Bluesky API Touchers discord"But.… |
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Post #AyDtGQRlZzOKSQSAIy by [email protected] |
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@lrhodes @mcc @alter_kaker @esoteric_programmer My understanding is that relays… |
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Post #AyE9e8Nvz0NIekzJJY by [email protected] |
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@ikuturso it is talked about in this thread @mcc started but I will reiterate a… |
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Post #AyE9e9rkTdolFVwdQO by [email protected] |
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@ikuturso ...this is just a surface level commentary on what happened, but if y… |
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Post #AyE9sPfaW1LcJn3PCS by [email protected] |
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@mcc @lrhodes @esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker I think they just straight up r… |
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Post #AyEAhZkYnU4WLlmAKm by [email protected] |
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@txtechnician @mccthis is the ticking time bombventure capital has sunk a big i… |
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Post #AyEAhlVP5f4uoEmENM by [email protected] |
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@benroyce @mcc I figure it was probably a few figure heads throwing scat. Pret… |
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Post #AyEAhxKr6hlrUzvybI by [email protected] |
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@benroyce @txtechnician @mcc the funding is an interesting one. If we don't… |
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Post #AyEERXe7FeRx0ZN60m by [email protected] |
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@gbargoud @mcc #Friendica/#Hubzilla has been on #ActivityPub for a long time, a… |
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Post #AyEFtGLLHBrzPIN9aS by [email protected] |
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@swetland That already exists in the form of microblog.pub, gotosocial, snac2 a… |
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Post #AyEVe6s1oQ5IwzSQvQ by [email protected] |
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@mastodonmigration @mcc @lrhodes @esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker BGS, Big … |
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Post #AyEVeAMynncpnqxh5M by [email protected] |
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@mackuba @mastodonmigration @mcc @esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker The question… |
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Post #AyEVeAWCFWzwGRH3S4 by [email protected] |
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@lrhodes @mackuba @mastodonmigration @mcc @esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker yes… |
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Post #AyEVgxEo5AshwbT6rg by [email protected] |
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@mat @mcc @alter_kaker @esoteric_programmer I would think making the PDS the ca… |
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Post #AyEVj8tZi8hsg8a4eW by [email protected] |
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@lrhodes @mcc @alter_kaker @esoteric_programmer This moves into a lot of stuff … |
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Post #AyEVj92n9s4z8itR1E by [email protected] |
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@mat @lrhodes @mcc @alter_kaker @esoteric_programmer the pds/storage can change… |
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Post #AyEVj9BIeEsvZ6sEHQ by [email protected] |
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@trwnh @mat @mcc @alter_kaker @esoteric_programmer Yeah, my understanding a whi… |
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Post #AyEVj9JS9vPHyOgjzM by [email protected] |
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@lrhodes @mat @mcc @alter_kaker @esoteric_programmer """fun"… |
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Post #AyEVjC65o3VCbpSc52 by [email protected] |
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@mat @lrhodes @mcc @alter_kaker @esoteric_programmer it's kind of like upda… |
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Post #AyEVjWpUixheuQr9cm by [email protected] |
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@mat @mcc @alter_kaker I can recommend joining ATProto Touchers discord (was re… |
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Post #AyEVlG3i33eRTVKW8W by [email protected] |
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@mcc @thisismissem @alter_kaker Noted, but I don't really want to create an… |
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Post #AyEVm4OKudrNZxMhEG by [email protected] |
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@msh @ikuturso @mcc @swetland @gbargoud arguably bluesky could address those ne… |
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Post #AyEVm4WqP0fK0LLUUS by [email protected] |
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@msh @ikuturso @mcc @swetland @gbargoud however, with that said, the vast major… |
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Post #AyEVn8OdVZJeI00rrM by [email protected] |
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@laurenshof @lrhodes @mastodonmigration @mcc @esoteric_programmer @alter_ka… |
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Post #AyEVoWfckA0JraceHI by [email protected] |
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@mcc @esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker AFAIK, appviews are an additional layer … |
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Post #AyEVqx5hU1zSNtyakS by [email protected] |
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@trwnh @lrhodes @mat @mcc @alter_kaker I thought @user.domain.tld is just a way… |
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Post #AyEVqxDqziVonBn6SO by [email protected] |
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@esoteric_programmer @lrhodes @mat @mcc @alter_kaker you are *supposed* to &quo… |
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Post #AyEVrkk8sSSGNWH55U by [email protected] |
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@[email protected] I am not opposed to a category discussing alternatives… |
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Post #AyEVs5n2csFfeanC1Q by [email protected] |
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@gbargoud @mcc a fedi server could store *public* data in an atproto data repo … |
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Post #AyEVuC609Uf5n2fAci by [email protected] |
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@ikuturso @lrhodes @esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker yeah, that thing |
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Post #AyEVv5pcvYq0eTQssK by [email protected] |
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@mat @mcc @alter_kaker I also use discord for Mastodon and Fedify development, … |
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Post #AyEVxMBn57khxksYrI by [email protected] |
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@ikuturso @esoteric_programmer @alter_kaker @mcc that $34/month is enough for 2… |
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Post #AyEVxTswT5Qdpc7cae by [email protected] |
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@trwnh @lrhodes @mat @mcc @alter_kaker This is offtopic in a way, but oho, I di… |
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Post #AyEhXGFJkpdXS2qrtQ by [email protected] |
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@gunchleoc the Bluesky addon for Friendica is here [0], I haven't had time … |
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Post #AyEhzSSBxaZ9QAJpdw by [email protected] |
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@silmathoron @gbargoud @mcc Might ne Friendica only, I was writing from imperfe… |
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Post #AyEvONUErZheeyUOga by [email protected] |
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Update: Rudy who operates blacksky.community responded to this thread on bluesk… |
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Post #AyF0DL9vfzDy1hXuTI by [email protected] |
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@mcc I'm appreciating your efforts to gather info and summarize - I think I… |
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Post #AyF0OvDHy4XD22djOK by [email protected] |
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@mcc excellent, good to know! |
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Post #AyJ2KZ1vToOpc8DMR6 by [email protected] |
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@mcc Hmmm Thanks for the thread. Sad, but glad I heard it. |
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Post #AyMj9o0eKEeaODc6Hg by [email protected] |
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@mnordhoff yes, the plc is another really frustrating thing |
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Post #AyMj9o8npvAwnVQbzc by [email protected] |
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@mcc 4 days later Bluesky has announced an intention to establish an independen… |
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Post #AyNZ3SxCtLL0xxIlGa by [email protected] |
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@jrose @mcc Even the portability being better is somewhat theoretical right now… |
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Post #AyNZ3T4eRfIDL2mhs0 by [email protected] |
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@ikuturso @jrose @mcc yeah, unfortunately bluesky has zero interest in supporti… |
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Post #AyNZ3TBk1Ixph26MvA by [email protected] |
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@trwnh @ikuturso @jrose if someone develops a better did method, surely you cou… |
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Post #AyNZ3TIpawdS31Q1yK by [email protected] |
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@mcc @trwnh @ikuturso @jrose But the problem is that did:plc by definition alwa… |
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Post #AyNZ3TPvAaJ4P0jh1U by [email protected] |
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@erincandescent @ikuturso @trwnh @jrose I am proposing engineering a situation … |
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Post #AyNZ3TVwoB7whhYVPs by [email protected] |
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@mcc @erincandescent @ikuturso @jrose this would depend entirely on how did:plc… |
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Post #AyNZ3TcgP8Vz2ahsum by [email protected] |
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@trwnh @erincandescent @ikuturso @jrose I am proposing inventing a did:kad, or … |
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Post #AyNZ3Ti05MlhJ5C8Ce by [email protected] |
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@mcc @erincandescent @ikuturso @jrose i think this effectively amounts to "… |
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Post #AyNZ3To1ixaZbm0wb2 by [email protected] |
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@trwnh @mcc @ikuturso @jrose In did:plc:foo, foo is a base32(sha256(creation_re… |
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Post #AyNZ3TojgK9jdyLVhY by [email protected] |
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@mcc @erincandescent @ikuturso @jrose right now the practical consideration for… |
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Post #AyNZ3TulJuybwfAK5w by [email protected] |
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@trwnh @ikuturso @jrose @mcc there are broadly 3 types of DID that exist at the… |
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Post #AyNZ3U0QypVuEFoqw4 by [email protected] |
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@erincandescent i think in order to solve this problem without centralization y… |
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Post #AyNZ3U6ScQKmWwdfKS by [email protected] |
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@mcc @erincandescent I have a system that doesn't need blockchain. Instead … |
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Post #AyNZ3UDuAkHyu27bvs by [email protected] |
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@mcc @erincandescent The concept is that you intentionally preclude the possibi… |
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Post #AyNZ3UKHn1ORDp6hsW by [email protected] |
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@dalias @mcc it sounds like in an attempt to prevent people using your system f… |
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Post #AyNZ3UQfPIUtXc5npA by [email protected] |
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@erincandescent @mcc Nope. Recovery is one of the primary considerations. Unles… |
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Post #AyNZ3UX31ZbLrP4tlo by [email protected] |
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@erincandescent @mcc And in my view, "not usable for money" is a prer… |
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Post #AyNZ3V5Qxj6ha3AMMq by [email protected] |
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@dalias @erincandescent @mcc Do you have a more detailed write up somewhere I c… |
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Post #AybY7HFGzCYc4NRbaS by [email protected] |
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@mcc what exactly is the benefit of migrating to a non bluesky PDS? I understan… |
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Post #AybY7HMiXWVoRSvYBs by [email protected] |
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@eniko @mcc If I understand correctly (and it is possible and likely that I don… |
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Post #AybY7IIV4gjVKfxhFw by [email protected] |
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@mcc personally I've decided to sidestep bluesky's moderation issues by… |
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Post #AybY8YfZglXKOpME3E by [email protected] |
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@carcosa @eniko @mcc pretty much. being on bluesky's pds means you are subj… |
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Post #Az0NZA6cslkHUWUYeu by [email protected] |
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So. The thread above. An update.We finally got a live test of the "Gertrud… |
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Post #Az0NZAEQPlz3si8moa by [email protected] |
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@mcc Link, the banned user in question, is accessible via the raw Bluesky netwo… |
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Post #Az0NZAKo235WCV7slE by [email protected] |
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@mattsheffield The pds doesn't view posts. The appview views posts. You nee… |
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Post #Az0NZAQTgxcoU5mPbM by [email protected] |
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@mcc The layers are indeed censorship choke points. What I'm saying is that… |
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Post #Az0NZAWrJEjGnslVY0 by [email protected] |
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@mattsheffield *sighs*I feel like I'm having a lot of repetitive conversati… |
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Post #Az0NZAcswpY96ZaJwO by [email protected] |
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@mcc I think I did see it, the one referencing the network traffic from bsky.ap… |
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Post #Az0NZAjcXmwBRSjhRI by [email protected] |
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@mattsheffield In the screenshot, you see two headers: atproto-accept-labelers,… |
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Post #Az0NZAq0A42dlFinNw by [email protected] |
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@mcc It's possible that Rudy has an independent app view because that can b… |
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Post #Az0NZAx5jhiG7F2SR6 by [email protected] |
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@mattsheffield I do not think, in the context of the post you have made here, s… |
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Post #Az0NZB3pKf6IS8Bpw0 by [email protected] |
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@mcc It is both a PDS and an app view. I'll be publishing a piece about thi… |
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Post #Az0NZBACwwCklvAvse by [email protected] |
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@mcc I filed my report. Got quotes from Link and Bluesky about the federation s… |
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Post #Az0NdeCwuDzC0daX6u by [email protected] |
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@mcc Right now there are people hosted on Blacksky who cannot post because they… |
