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Post AuUplzQsaOXRFPLEtk by [email protected] |
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More posts by [email protected] |
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Post #Au1Au41leg766uUOWG by [email protected] |
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1/ Alright, I'm back with what I assume will be a week long rage thread abo… |
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Post #Au1B3XAweXEv7MIVou by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I'll just say, interesting timing |
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Post #Au1C2hDBx8B1uQVqme by [email protected] |
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2/ Reasons I hate the book:1. It's wrong. If you follow whatever you manage… |
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Post #Au1C5mEtiW1wN1mPSa by [email protected] |
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@Patricia looking forward to understanding in detail why Team Topologies gives … |
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Post #Au1CQw02chiKisv4SG by [email protected] |
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3/ Last time I yelled at this bookhttps://social.vivaldi.net/@Patricia/11270484… |
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Post #Au1E8P8IHaftU44Ueu by [email protected] |
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4/ Fundamental "logical" conclusion of the book:To *force* an organiz… |
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Post #Au1EVVFDj35J6EKFGa by [email protected] |
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5/ Any part of it you might agree with is someone elses idea. They are pulling … |
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Post #Au1EjxIOEG0W9WhQbQ by [email protected] |
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@matthewskelton like I said, I am not interested in having a discussion. I will… |
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Post #Au1FaurfztvzxfSStk by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Ooh, it's a while since I read one of these from you :) Nice :) |
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Post #Au1HSRW3QnlgWtQqAa by [email protected] |
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6/ FYI any «well actually» might result in a mute or a block because (read po… |
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Post #Au1IFwjIAWu3WgEFO4 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia |
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Post #Au1IrawRckFIxMKhvc by [email protected] |
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@Patricia not so much for books as such, but I've read a lot of articles ov… |
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Post #Au1JgotPVuwUzfL88e by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I can't read so I though it said "all the dudes Iâm requir… |
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Post #Au1KI7gGchlzyhynHE by [email protected] |
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@matthewskelton Maybe read up on this one first? https://social.vivaldi.net/@Pa… |
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Post #Au1KQYeEFBtrvq33D6 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Hmm, in some way that seems like a very American way of looking at a … |
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Post #Au1NAsNhPLFGMZWxXc by [email protected] |
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@RenewedRebecca that is a feature of this most optimal system design |
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Post #Au1O4xmkVEFtL8zYoa by [email protected] |
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7/ Starting from the beginning. The logical foundation from which all this spri… |
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Post #Au1OgR8iKL6x5y8P44 by [email protected] |
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8/ Based on my own experience I can see how Conways Law can be plausible:"… |
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Post #Au1OpmElFwyp8OPuNM by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Omg this is the thread I needed! Iâm starting to think that any man… |
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Post #Au1PN1fcte50YXpxtA by [email protected] |
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9/ The solution in both agile and devops was one of closer collaboration.The pr… |
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Post #Au1Q0QNKyg2QTH4M3U by [email protected] |
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10/ So to Inverse Conway Maneuver, this is a thought experiment, not based on e… |
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Post #Au1Qgy2eCIwR31g53I by [email protected] |
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@Patricia > [the book says] one must create an organization that mimics micr… |
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Post #Au1RBhkonvBxVfzksi by [email protected] |
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11/ This makes a bunch of fundamental assumptions that should be examined, firs… |
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Post #Au1Rt1zvPlFYkLikL2 by [email protected] |
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12/ To scientifically prove Conways Law is difficult/impossible, we would need … |
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Post #Au1SB0fF6yDfp5cTOy by [email protected] |
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13/ I also firmly believe that this is the nature of the fundamental problems t… |
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Post #Au1T5wdsjmaxr68EMq by [email protected] |
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14/ So in formal logic what is Conways Law saying?I think it is fair to boil it… |
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Post #Au1TIKumJoRWbtwZKS by [email protected] |
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@Patriciawhy twice tho |
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Post #Au1UOKz94N0eWKPaSm by [email protected] |
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15/ The fallacy Affirming the Consequent has the form:If P, then Q.Q.Therefore,… |
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Post #Au1ZC7uwKT2MHrRQiO by [email protected] |
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16/ Based on the above I will claim that Inverse Conway Maneuver is not a logic… |
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Post #Au1ZDSCqNi57V8Rt0S by [email protected] |
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17/ If there exists a team or person that can produce a system with an interfac… |
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Post #Au1ZdAyT4VIraQzQXY by [email protected] |
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18/ I think the fundamental problem here is that Conways Law is descriptive and… |
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Post #Au1a5Fj4zwSwQsBDlY by [email protected] |
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@Patricia heh, and in fact I've seen many reorgs that, while seeming like a… |
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Post #Au1a7lLOPkD94aIVVI by [email protected] |
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19/ I find it extremely naive and lacking analysis, hiding decades of academic … |
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Post #Au1b0rKRrfBPYs7zI8 by [email protected] |
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20/ Which brings us to the problem with the Fundamental Assumptions:Assumption … |
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Post #Au1bkl9X9vUnjAuSP2 by [email protected] |
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21/ This entire book hinges in my opinion on a handful of assumptions:A) There … |
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Post #Au1buYcEcu7fjy0Rua by [email protected] |
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@JamesWidman đŻ |
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Post #Au1byhmOUtxDJtjgvY by [email protected] |
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@syklemil Once for the audio book and once for the physical book |
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Post #Au1cE1HkG3uY9whd32 by [email protected] |
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@james don't tell management that, they might lose it |
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Post #Au1cHyRSlsG8V28Li4 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia that might explain a lot about my career progress lately |
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Post #Au1cWwLWqSuiLMUiIa by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @syklemil I wanna see the stab wound. |
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Post #Au1dezd4cgTynR6Y6a by [email protected] |
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@Patricia thank you for putting in the time to disembowel this book |
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Post #Au1e73ucICOQBih81Q by [email protected] |
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@james |
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Post #Au1eAdr577TQX2kRKi by [email protected] |
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@klefstadmyr @syklemil fair |
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Post #Au1fP2FHKOsSBYUdZQ by [email protected] |
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@Patricia oh Patricia, I love this threadI read a couple chapters of this when … |
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Post #Au1g2NwsZNxsn4eOeG by [email protected] |
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@saraislet my personal theory is that nobody actually reads it (or at least not… |
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Post #Au1gdF7WM9BU7mCeyO by [email protected] |
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@PatriciaThe notion that microservices are vastly superior is baffling, is ther… |
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Post #Au1gdFExuT8gUrgbZo by [email protected] |
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@faassen from my recollection no, but I guess thatâs the purpose of this seco… |
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Post #Au1k1H74tkH57M9BBo by [email protected] |
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22/ Itâs also important to point out that Conway himself argued, in this pape… |
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Post #Au1nPyzfhcka1V9jNo by [email protected] |
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@Patricia my personal theory is that many people do read books like this and ge… |
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Post #Au1o91vfdS6M9tlTPc by [email protected] |
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@Patricia but I'm cynical and disillusioned and deeply disappointed in most… |
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Post #Au1r1OMycOPjInaQD2 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Thanks for this thread! I really liked your previous lengthy threads,… |
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Post #Au1x2JVwksgOG4bYgq by [email protected] |
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@Patricia So now I've finally found someone who shares my hatred of this po… |
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Post #Au1yfNSO88z3jZ8C5A by [email protected] |
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@jadonn Its a bit like listening to Trump, if he didnât have any power I woul… |
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Post #Au1yit0bHIHuSVo52G by [email protected] |
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@AgilePreacher â |
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Post #Au1z3YjvpehFg3rs2a by [email protected] |
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@AgilePreacher I was going to jokingly say «there are dozens of us» but tbh I… |
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Post #Au25M2ChcjH5zoWBRA by [email protected] |
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@Patricia re meaning of "communication structures":it's interesti… |
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Post #Au2AxjQCP5rYWDcqps by [email protected] |
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@Patricia sure. I didn't ask for a discussion. |
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Post #Au2KqaZXuDUYaVELD6 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia That's a really good point! I get where you are coming from. I… |
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Post #Au2LczxOpSiLDWTGXA by [email protected] |
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@Patricia hey guys checkout my MBA vomit that I smeared around into the shape o… |
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Post #Au2YfPoCyyyfNVeesy by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I had followed your past rage read thread on the book (interesting an… |
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Post #Au2mSQxKnxUCWucyNk by [email protected] |
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@Patricia It seems things are a bit different in my bubble: in my old company, … |
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Post #Au35sUmB7fTT2HYAHw by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I have never read this book, but what you're saying made me think… |
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Post #Au3FjK3ebOjqjHzMq8 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia - personal computers won't be a thing for about 10 years;- there&… |
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Post #Au3FjKA2DfqJ34ySmm by [email protected] |
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@Patricia but also: Mel Conway is still alive! In the present day! He's ali… |
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Post #Au3FjKFhsaNbKfczcu by [email protected] |
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@Patricia but yeah... in the 1950's & 60's, even before we start th… |
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Post #Au3FjKMnSE3Dgeweg4 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia probably a lot of good inter-department design happened in cafeterias… |
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Post #Au3FjKTB4V9g0Rvkci by [email protected] |
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@JamesWidman I read a story once, and I donât remember where, about a handoff… |
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Post #Au3G0LjzbAT4s6uZns by [email protected] |
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@realn2s Past Patricia signed me up to do a talk about the book. We are current… |
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Post #Au3GS0nr2Pa22iuNQO by [email protected] |
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@NearToTheSky I think for actual real constraints this might make sense, not ve… |
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Post #Au3HBOmkiejDSC2EO8 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Probably she is jealous of all the things you just know, and SHE will… |
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Post #Au3LP5giv1W65z015M by [email protected] |
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@Patricia a graph of communications between organizations/sub-organizations def… |
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Post #Au3PShQTSxlXp5NJa4 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia wtfIt's like reading "How committees invent?" (https://… |
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Post #Au3SrgMWrE6xct8N1s by [email protected] |
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@Patricia In my experience Conwayâs Law is only true in degenerate organizati… |
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Post #Au3TioDYNmAXKwGiMS by [email protected] |
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23/ Jeez, we're still on chapter 1, and we're not even done with that. … |
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Post #Au3UFgvIWY6WGmPQUS by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Apropos yelling at books, I came across this and "Mastering C Po… |
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Post #Au3UK54EhMs6JGgPBY by [email protected] |
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24/ I think fundamentally that is my biggest gripe with this book, it completel… |
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Post #Au3UNAGvntW1Jx5jzU by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Following this thread, I'm getting the feeling this book will com… |
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Post #Au3UOfJdrxwVtI4icy by [email protected] |
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25/ We'll get back to the blogpost. It is important. It's somewhere lat… |
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Post #Au3WNDUg1dMtDlfoh6 by [email protected] |
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26/ Final concept in chapter one, which I think is complete bullshit, is "… |
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Post #Au3WPD6ASxRSZf9zhw by [email protected] |
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27/ The argument is garbage, but even if we would accept it I claim that:1) &qu… |
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Post #Au3ZV453CvLiCn7YuG by [email protected] |
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28/ Finally, it is quite insulting that a team that is being overwhelmed with t… |
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Post #Au3ZucQQeRdPxnJ08u by [email protected] |
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29/ That brings us to the end of chapter 1. On to chapter 2: "Conway's… |
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Post #Au3aE13fI7E9rYuJBA by [email protected] |
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@pa28 100% unfortunately, as will become more clear, the whole point of TT is t… |
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Post #Au3aGPnWHTqVAdV1CS by [email protected] |
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@syklemil đđđ |
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Post #Au3czOi7Mxm6jqY8qu by [email protected] |
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30/ This where the authors will lay out their claim (sprinkled within a lot of … |
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Post #Au3fRz7Nngx1ff7tbs by [email protected] |
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31/ And since I'm honestly worried y'all will think I have completely m… |
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Post #Au3fiOprx1os48lHe4 by [email protected] |
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32/ I can only assume that they worked on some Oracle based enterprise project … |
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Post #Au3g1lyEA17PJquPui by [email protected] |
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33/ Anyway, whatever this is supposed to be, this is our straw-man, and this is… |
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Post #Au3g2tZ9PEeVALiNXs by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I think those green boxes used to be labeled "Stored Procedures&… |
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Post #Au3gdFxtbVjX3ocy36 by [email protected] |
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34/ Galaxy Brain: if they canât talk, they canât collaborate!Itâs almost … |
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Post #Au3goC0qdgwzzJDtmS by [email protected] |
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35/ DevOps: We have a communication wall between Dev and Ops, we should tear it… |
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Post #Au3hViOC8ijKr0tdkO by [email protected] |
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36/ That snippet brings up a new term "flow" which they use a lot. I … |
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Post #Au3hmx0P39sd6mzEZs by [email protected] |
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@stiiin Oh yes. đŻ you win đ° |
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Post #Au3htm9ZnPYbTjX26S by [email protected] |
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@wordshaper Do you remember the year this was last normal? |
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Post #Au3iMsyfVGKb2bJJCK by [email protected] |
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37/ They also constantly misrepresent what Conway said which is annoying me to … |
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Post #Au3iuRmD8rrOWaUFCC by [email protected] |
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@Patricia that is such blatant misinterpretation! Why would they even bother qu… |
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Post #Au3j163UIeU1BTjrKC by [email protected] |
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@aagot Write a book called No Roof, make a reorg consultancy racket, profit. |
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Post #Au3jMRS1whDbciOdl2 by [email protected] |
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@tedmielczarek This whole book is basically: Conway was right, people that are … |
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Post #Au3jjk5eoOuq5m2g08 by [email protected] |
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38/ I told y'all to mute this thread, we're only on day two, chapter tw… |
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Post #Au3k47RHi9fUIasHYm by [email protected] |
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@Patricia depressingly, yes, but it was a *long* time ago. It was in the inters… |
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Post #Au3kCTNzzqpIgPJyM4 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I think it stopped being normal, or at least better than the alternat… |
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Post #Au3kDRhZkC8XkUwSCO by [email protected] |
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@wordshaper I have never even seen such a system, but given the constraints at … |
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Post #Au3kGoRVeOTB9C24fo by [email protected] |
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@aagot Perfect |
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Post #Au3kWxBqtZiouVPCk4 by [email protected] |
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@aagot @tedmielczarek different Conway |
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Post #Au3kYsnCDVIjqmnCyG by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Count yourself lucky. It's not an environment I'd wish on any… |
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Post #Au3kboYcQ3mXaHN8W8 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Thing is, no, we can't. Muting a thread in the sense that you sto… |
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Post #Au3kbojblCZY8MVue8 by [email protected] |
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@bodil Iâm so sorry. Maybe you should just mute me all together. |
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Post #Au3krPT3TCuEP3CqbA by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @bodil I see the Mastodon Homeowner's Association is alive and we… |
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Post #Au3lPTRJD2QGZEdH60 by [email protected] |
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39/ Chapter 2 has a sub header that says the quiet part out loud right in the t… |
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Post #Au3lU8KZ7PkOY0hTCy by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @bodil I just want to add that I appreciate this thread very much. |
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Post #Au3mhX74ODkt7xLCj2 by [email protected] |
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40/ I have so many issues with this text weâll just have to take them one by … |
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Post #Au3ngBUTOcbNjNCzDs by [email protected] |
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41/ First, from user interaction design we actually look for these things, I sa… |
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Post #Au3ox6JfzEIgYomxDE by [email protected] |
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42/ First line is yet another misunderstanding of Conway: "One key implica… |
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Post #Au3pXFBKVEBeTt7Qpc by [email protected] |
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43/ "Sometimes, two or more teams may feel the need to communicate on soft… |
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Post #Au3prKxEkXGWB06lqy by [email protected] |
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44/ Anyway, that is the whole ideological basis of this entire book and all its… |
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Post #Au3q8to0QXwjBjAH9k by [email protected] |
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@PatriciaThis one? |
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Post #Au3qIc4pCH676DfCwy by [email protected] |
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45/ Got a chat platform like Slack or Teams or whatever? A way for people to ta… |
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Post #Au3qntnBNhhR1IKVn6 by [email protected] |
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46/ Past Patricia was on the money:"I posit that this book is result of a … |
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Post #Au3qu96NNE08EtHnw8 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia, why not a simple and private chat on-the-fly? (Great in the Vivaldi … |
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Post #Au3rMyn2n8w4ehzc2a by [email protected] |
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@worldwidewerner In my mind it was higher and more paths⊠but maybe Iâm mis… |
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Post #Au3rRHY2zWaPzW1uEa by [email protected] |
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@Catweazle No talking! Talking is monolithic behavior!!! |
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Post #Au3rqdjPeRjU1zRBCK by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @JamesWidman today this is especially true when managers don't lo… |
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Post #Au3tzjWHhSQQUulDOq by [email protected] |
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@Patricia If Conway's rule applied as inescapably as this author suggests, … |
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Post #Au3uy1cZWoVc0sS1AG by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Oh! This is the book that advocated for âThinnest Viable Platformïżœ… |
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Post #Au3vJHjCq0wq37gvUO by [email protected] |
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@Patricia This is good knowledge because that book has been sitting on my shelv… |
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Post #Au3y2XFcAgd38EYTIW by [email protected] |
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@voxpelli I donât remember, but itâs in the index, looks like itâs chapte… |
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Post #Au3y7GsOTkkBnLx4vA by [email protected] |
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@DRMacIver Feel free, one week book club, Iâm sure youâd be nicer than me ïżœ… |
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Post #Au3yYZw9ighijHjUKe by [email protected] |
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@Patricia enjoyed this thread, thank you for writing it. |
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Post #Au3yx8sFTbWE2CcNBg by [email protected] |
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@Patricia The platform thatâs not a platform â the Emperor's new clothes |
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Post #Au40lEDny4jh3N9D3A by [email protected] |
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@ted Not done yet, 6 chapters to go |
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Post #Au40nB4mdMPpsQrDHs by [email protected] |
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@voxpelli Looking forward to it |
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Post #Au40tYNuszQFu9qZRw by [email protected] |
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@Patricia đź Drink water and take breaks! |
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Post #Au41bZNwWly3kVqcs4 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Sounds like it might be part and parcel with wanting to keep employee… |
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Post #Au44GjUO49YErpcMaG by [email protected] |
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@Patricia It almost feels to me like the folks behind this ideology are trying … |
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Post #Au45mX75iKgLhnRsjg by [email protected] |
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@jadonn Tbh it feels like the motivation goes in the other direction: knowledge… |
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Post #Au462UXt1qlKNIakJE by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Your formalization of Conway's Law does not feel right to me.It i… |
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Post #Au46Xh8yEtZiQMofcO by [email protected] |
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@copacetic Basically no because a single team can do either. Yes, you can force… |
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Post #Au46q7pfkYHyPVZtj6 by [email protected] |
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Also the inverse thing is just made up, itâs an intellectual exercise, itâs… |
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Post #Au47uJDHTi6WotBBfE by [email protected] |
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@james @Patricia I agree that the architecture is harder to change than the org… |
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Post #Au47uJL50iLJD4pPou by [email protected] |
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@copacetic @james thatâs really funny in the context of this book because in … |
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Post #Au4AxjfLsqdbaodQtU by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @tedmielczarek thank you for this rant, I will avoid loosing time rea… |
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Post #Au4Ggy4LgAuN47iNYO by [email protected] |
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47/ An aside, but in my experience if you want to make a great API you need a l… |
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Post #Au4GogbWUtSpDQuccq by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @tedmielczarek as you decribe, 'inverting conways law' make n… |
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Post #Au4Gogiy3DQ1aWOZEG by [email protected] |
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@thinkb4coding The path thing is really good, saw it over 15 years ago. Stuck w… |
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Post #Au4MU70hixeekyGNo8 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I know more than a few architects who unironically think this way. |
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Post #Au4VT5gW4BPVwXPNDs by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Why would I ever want to mute this thread? This is glorious!I mean, I… |
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Post #Au4olNQ2lekZHq8VvM by [email protected] |
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@Patricia thank you for articulating so well what I find so unsettling in Team … |
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Post #Au5W6eb8O7xifziS7E by [email protected] |
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@Patricia next review https://itrevolution.com/product/wiring-the-winning-organ… |
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Post #Au5w555vV7L55E1tD6 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I don't get your argument. There is no "either" for me … |
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Post #Au5wE21sGcrwBNOzRo by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @james The teams do collaborate.The people would collaborate even mor… |
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Post #Au5zo1qQjM2hthuCX2 by [email protected] |
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@mdfranz Oh no, is it bad? |
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Post #Au60LA770Vpz6FVWhU by [email protected] |
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@copacetic I think youâre maybe arguing against something other than what I a… |
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Post #Au60QGodW6PlKkIkPg by [email protected] |
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@copacetic @james maybe this conversation would go better if you read the book … |
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Post #Au6DMiir7JYg8AEdiC by [email protected] |
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@Patricia No. Just curious your read on that given your reaction to TT. |
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Post #AuBASt880SH44h6aC8 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia It looks like the perfect book for the authors: minimal effort, large… |
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Post #AuFjq72yhgOovSLUno by [email protected] |
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48/ Iâm back. Chapter 2 didnât really bring anything more to the table exce… |
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Post #AuFkXpFQF4aWSp0hRQ by [email protected] |
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49/ One of the important things about this whole idea from Spotify is right the… |
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Post #AuFmcVtJputDmr2DFg by [email protected] |
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50/ I think this is important to discuss because it is central to this entire c… |
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Post #AuFmvhZccsD9WMyHlQ by [email protected] |
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51/ Which reminds me of this clip from Bad Boys 2:- "Carlos, this is a stu… |
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Post #AuFnGJZp2ZjjB4tUVU by [email protected] |
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52/ So what do you do if company leadership has decided that this is a good ide… |
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Post #AuFnTXC5itz3Aw67MW by [email protected] |
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53/ This is not normal, nor is it advisable. It is mostly a massive waste of mo… |
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Post #AuFo56BaaSQuPom6QS by [email protected] |
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54/ Now imagine that this is your situation (again, not at all normal or wise),… |
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Post #AuFoG9pfN0VQuTnHUm by [email protected] |
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55/ This isn't good engineering.This is a complete waste of money and talen… |
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Post #AuFoO7ogkTFYyV8TYW by [email protected] |
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56/ But if it happens, if it's out of your hands, you do your best to prote… |
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Post #AuFp7RTwToJ8zt2aLQ by [email protected] |
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57/ Fast forward to 2015, the title of the talk is still about trying to do agi… |
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Post #AuFpa60HPnRWmTpUJs by [email protected] |
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58/ In my clearly not so humble opinion the "Spotify Model" is Bad Pr… |
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Post #AuFpvTyLUjmXCT7fOq by [email protected] |
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59/ That's all I'll say about Spotify. Let's move on. |
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Post #AuFqET4l3JGPvCAuIq by [email protected] |
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@bodil Muting tags works well, but that demands of @Patricia to appropriately a… |
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Post #AuFqETCCbdDcIHequG by [email protected] |
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@bitbear @bodil gah, just mute me, itâll be over soon |
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Post #AuFrpoDZVcssA4fPcm by [email protected] |
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@aagot @mattblaze @Patricia @bodil Yeah. Restrict the communication, that's… |
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Post #AuFrpoKJ6aGuUxon7g by [email protected] |
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@bertkoor @aagot @mattblaze @Patricia @bodil You do for you what works for you.… |
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Post #AuFrq3UmhuZ7Xnps2K by [email protected] |
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@bitbear @bertkoor @aagot @mattblaze @Patricia @bodil @ivoryYup, that's wha… |
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Post #AuFt6t6ggXecCY9e6K by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Definitely getting shades of working at Amazon from this đ |
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Post #AuFxICewjGjJqQpW2y by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Brooks nailed it in "The Mythical Man-Month", back in the l… |
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Post #AuFxMmBgZw4XBvK9rs by [email protected] |
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@Patricia fwiw I love the âPatricia shouts at bookâ genre of threads, donïżœ… |
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Post #AuFxkzr3Pq1yWtDtEu by [email protected] |
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@swiftcoder Amazon definitely has the feel of «we donât want people to talk … |
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Post #AuFxoQyX2RZbVlMMy0 by [email protected] |
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@cstross One thousand percent |
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Post #AuFyNFTJneRfyAMQYi by [email protected] |
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60/ Ok, one last thing on Spotify, because I donât want people to think that … |
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Post #AuG0ONyPsOzMXCZo6y by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I think these people have been on the non-coding technical leadership… |
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Post #AuGDNt5xyo62AhCVvc by [email protected] |
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@alper I agree, or they are like all the agile coaches that yell at me when I s… |
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Post #AuGDyBbedKM20XKahM by [email protected] |
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61/ I realized today that it was very unfortunate for the authors that I am the… |
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Post #AuGErsqbZ71e2psmtk by [email protected] |
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62/ Like the Team of Teams book which I read years ago, and what I remember fro… |
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Post #AuGFetSw3UoS9TBIQK by [email protected] |
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63/ Remember how I said that a massive chunk of the book is regurgitating (badl… |
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Post #AuGJ03J6xYdOcPMoIy by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I mean itâs been great for the industry that the entire VPEng caree… |
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Post #AuGJ9oAW6EEwYwzzP6 by [email protected] |
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64/ Ok, this is petty, but I had to read it twice soâŠA regular full book page… |
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Post #AuGKG33NlpWGQ3CXC4 by [email protected] |
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@alper I think youâve been luckier than me in that respect. |
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Post #AuGU1IrViBJce8FvbU by [email protected] |
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@Patricia WELCOME BACK!Sorry to shout, but youâbe been missed đ |
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Post #AuGU1IyxGVGp1DjsCu by [email protected] |
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@hallvors |
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Post #AuHYYJ80KygS0CvLJQ by [email protected] |
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65/ Ok, ok, we need to speed up this shit. |
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Post #AuHYiCxG90utkgcQoC by [email protected] |
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66/ Starting chapter 3 which is the last in part 1 when is the important part o… |
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Post #AuHZk2ll5JUWhBg8OG by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Standard ghostwriting contracts I think set this st 20%. Someone is … |
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Post #AuHaWAXPVL3SgnuoJE by [email protected] |
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67/ We start with a typical (for this book) "logical" reasoning: Dunb… |
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Post #AuHaxiwzfQNnEl1MJc by [email protected] |
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@Patricia But Patricia! You know what in this work place we are like family! |
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Post #AuHb2L1q2GC6UbUGZc by [email protected] |
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68/ I think this is a perfect example of how the entire book is. They mischarac… |
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Post #AuHbLQoIlOsVvUGAr2 by [email protected] |
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69/ Dr. Edmondson's research is extremely interesting, especially because s… |
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Post #AuHc74DE5MR7jvdHBQ by [email protected] |
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70/ They go on to say that: actually there is a lot of research pointing in all… |
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Post #AuHcmZjnmOKFO3f7gG by [email protected] |
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71/ Their actual argument is "Amazon says 2 pizzas, and Amazon is cool&quo… |
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Post #AuHdZFz40pmCJM0vTM by [email protected] |
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72/ Note also that yet again our "stable and long running teams" migh… |
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Post #AuHeBAFHnP57WBg41I by [email protected] |
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73/ I have thoughts on this, but for now I just want to show this dynamic in th… |
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Post #AuHeHlRUParccTX5KC by [email protected] |
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@worldwidewerner đđđ |
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Post #AuHfBAiG9sIMvCnTrU by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I've read a few books like this where it feels like someone took … |
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Post #AuHfKOQIYLng38nDHM by [email protected] |
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74/ ROFL, do you want to know the length they mean by "long running"?… |
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Post #AuHfQIJu9o9mrIcH7w by [email protected] |
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75/ By the way 2 years this is not "long running" in any company I… |
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Post #AuHfe0MRj1FFDKLJ68 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Like your 74 post, FAANG people live in a parallel reality. Arguably … |
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Post #AuHgFmAivbRYDAs0ye by [email protected] |
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76/ I hate that I have actually read these books they bring up. This debate tec… |
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Post #AuHgTYTida4NnOKF9M by [email protected] |
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@tom đ |
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Post #AuHgam3eXzPfwHZkie by [email protected] |
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@tedmielczarek What is the most infuriating part of this book is that the «few… |
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Post #AuHgdKBEeVMKLYL2TQ by [email protected] |
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@Patricia At one point in my career, Amazon engineering management were all pat… |
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Post #AuHgimaQSwLJtYivfE by [email protected] |
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@Patricia the code, documentation, and processes are either exemplary and enabl… |
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Post #AuHgimhW2a0wFY2aiO by [email protected] |
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@c0dec0dec0de And those experienced seniors have been there for a long time. No… |
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Post #AuHglm1R1Ks50tmbwm by [email protected] |
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@swiftcoder Jesus Christ what a self own |
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Post #AuHhCCv3dkdRxkPA3c by [email protected] |
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77/ Skipping past obvious points* People should maintain what they build* Diver… |
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Post #AuHhXQKMz3ETd3MRZw by [email protected] |
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78/ New plan: fold laundry while listening to the audio book, and occasionally … |
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Post #AuHhkX7j1lBkTGhKF6 by [email protected] |
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79/ Btw, when I say skipping past I donât mean I donât read it, I mean I ca… |
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Post #AuHi0rTL8hn6DMasQy by [email protected] |
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@Patricia from your description it sounds like someone inventing a hagiography … |
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Post #AuHiZoCxGfHIE4atFY by [email protected] |
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80/ OMG. I missed this in my first reading: THEY DID NOT INVENT COGNITIVE LOAD.… |
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Post #AuHicKKSoTycQXJ5c0 by [email protected] |
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81/ Brain decides to digress to read said paper. |
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Post #AuHiiaCkhWLpOygPSa by [email protected] |
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@Patricia ânot sure what happened to that last personâIt was probably a wom… |
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Post #AuHj5GflUEylU74Qsq by [email protected] |
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@Patricia [Sarcasm may appear] To cheer you up, you should go and read Survilan… |
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Post #AuHjcrZlIorLUhHYDg by [email protected] |
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82/ This is an interesting paper (not done reading) basically it seems to be ab… |
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Post #AuHk11Ua5KnhCQNZ7Q by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Tangent on cognitive load i recalled when you said this https://masto… |
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Post #AuHkZBT3VG3hz1xFnE by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @grimalkina Talks about cognitive load at 29 mins here: https://www.y… |
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Post #AuHkobkU4a2RpvSfgW by [email protected] |
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83/ Ok, so the mechanism being studied is how one goes from being a junior to a… |
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Post #AuHlIpJKDLoOaNARWq by [email protected] |
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84/ Oh my, he seems to be making a massive assumption:A problem solving compute… |
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Post #AuHlSvipESATMjueBc by [email protected] |
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85/ «Programs which model problem solving using means-ends or alternatively, n… |
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Post #AuHm5AYAY9S0MIA7Fo by [email protected] |
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@Patricia You are beating them a lot đ |
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Post #AuHm7lDrAprkfutfRg by [email protected] |
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86/ Oh my, this is a contradiction to his previous statement about studies of e… |
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Post #AuHmsX5dXIQ6SDM3Fo by [email protected] |
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@Patricia *taking notes* đ |
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Post #AuHnSzKK1t1GSDbguW by [email protected] |
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87/ Ok, this got boring and more than a little circular. They had one or more p… |
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Post #AuHoIwVLlchclAXTmq by [email protected] |
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88/ This whole paper is silly. People donât solve problems like this. We abst… |
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Post #AuHoYt9E11eQywnH6m by [email protected] |
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@Patricia fully prepared to believe that managers do actually problem solve lik… |
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Post #AuHpQPaE9SkQvWwgqm by [email protected] |
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89/ ROFL. They didnât read the paper. They read Someone Elseâs Thoughts on … |
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Post #AuHpambtOR8hEtfbDU by [email protected] |
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90/ Holy fucking shit, this goes on for 20 pages, I need moar laundry. |
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Post #AuHpfJFG00zxc4EzRo by [email protected] |
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@mattclarke |
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Post #AuHpj1T22Sg9dOSEqm by [email protected] |
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@worldwidewerner @adrianh lol |
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Post #AuHprHXKB4KlmyOtcm by [email protected] |
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@Tallish_Tom @grimalkina unless itâs a rant I think Iâll skip it. Iâm bei… |
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Post #AuHptqCEHgw1raknJo by [email protected] |
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@madduci They hit me first |
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Post #AuHrPA0wkdqkG7yU1w by [email protected] |
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91/ As a surprise to absolutely no one we are yet again splitting up a so-calle… |
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Post #AuHs39Um6FgiEVzoC8 by [email protected] |
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92/ Jesus Christ. Is your team overwhelmed by tasks you keep on heaping on the … |
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Post #AuHsYtvPWeLTD1arwG by [email protected] |
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93/ They are literally using the words «team API».Broke: talking to people Wo… |
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Post #AuHtrJdkkuoa87gAe8 by [email protected] |
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94/ Apparently pairing with people on other teams or participating in «communi… |
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Post #AuHuFcLmqKsP6nrbMm by [email protected] |
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95/ Good thing we didnât spend more than half a page on that, donât want to… |
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Post #AuHwZst1GvpO5uCQu8 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia holy shit did management at $work read this book or something? I am l… |
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Post #AuHwZt06qZV0RtW5xI by [email protected] |
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@astraleureka Probably, or more likely looked at the pictures |
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Post #AuHz2fsstPPW4hzaNM by [email protected] |
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96/ The rest of chapter 3 is a bunch of «case studies» of physical configurat… |
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Post #AuHzbLzcq8IMWDgKNU by [email protected] |
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97/ On to part 2 «Team Topologies that work for flow» and chapter 4: «Static… |
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Post #AuI29mnXswHrPKZsp6 by [email protected] |
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98/ The Spotify blog post made another appearance. (This is maybe the fourth ti… |
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Post #AuI2jdrIbD9o6iQlns by [email protected] |
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99/ 7 pages into the chapter and nothing has been said beyond «DevOps happene… |
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Post #AuI32GmGdePg1ZxYoa by [email protected] |
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@Patricia yeah... again the spotify model that spotify never actually used...ht… |
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Post #AuI36KzmtixiGUDusK by [email protected] |
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100/ A lot of stuff being said about teams that I find very shallow, but deep a… |
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Post #AuI3Dewd7sCAAAEnz6 by [email protected] |
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101/ Product Management has entered the chat |
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Post #AuI3pkiS7IJV4BlpoW by [email protected] |
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102/ Weâre just doing a long list of practices at the moment. This is the «t… |
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Post #AuI5lHq9jYxiGBN8E4 by [email protected] |
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@thinkb4coding I actually was at a small conference on agile practices where th… |
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Post #AuI5lHxFJCdKcAgnHE by [email protected] |
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@larsivi @Patricia yes... this is a relatively small app.They talked about the … |
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Post #AuI5lI3yuA1Mx3qAm8 by [email protected] |
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@thinkb4coding @larsivi my thoughts on the problem of hyper scaling is further … |
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Post #AuI7DY4r3flUgHHt3Y by [email protected] |
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103/ This chapter is boring. We are now at SREs are a thing, they have them at … |
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Post #AuI7h2QLJF7RCHOrL6 by [email protected] |
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104/ This is what I mean about «textbook style», this is just regurgitating (… |
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Post #AuI8hthnJHbkOuXK52 by [email protected] |
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105/ They keep on bringing up DBAs and does your org actually have people with … |
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Post #AuI95FLX12AyBBFzPc by [email protected] |
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@Patricia the new place I work has. the previous one where the ceo apparently r… |
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Post #AuI9Ao31QLMZFgFZxY by [email protected] |
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106/ Agile coaching is a hell of a racket. Get an org to buy hundreds or thousa… |
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Post #AuI9FfsVE4OLMVeRUW by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Probably but they're overseas and we don't know who they are. |
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Post #AuI9IsCXrg4WS0YFDk by [email protected] |
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@lopta đ€Ł |
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Post #AuI9SA1SyVSWKRnWvA by [email protected] |
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@Patricia It keeps my architects from playing golf. https://wiki.c2.com/?Archit… |
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Post #AuI9X15RcqUS3wySPY by [email protected] |
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@cstross @Patricia well actually đ thatâs only true at the margin. If you … |
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Post #AuIA9LLuj7RRv4x9xA by [email protected] |
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107/ Spotify enters the chat. Again. No idea what number weâre at now. |
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Post #AuIASgwYfyB8NwJr28 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I'm not even joking, sadly. |
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Post #AuIAjA2YGMdJGByYcq by [email protected] |
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108/ Chapter 4 was 100% Other Peopleâs Thoughts. Absolutely no original thoug… |
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Post #AuIBEC0yyGaKMU2TIW by [email protected] |
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109/ I have discovered a hack! Look at the reference section for this chapter, … |
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Post #AuIBv7vi2E54902qem by [email protected] |
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110/ Chapter 5 page 1.Book: Do we have the right teams in place?Me: you know yo… |
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Post #AuICPqpBgJmW4Qe2TI by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Their Exadata certainly puts out some heat, mind! |
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Post #AuIDQMnmtFiHCVnePg by [email protected] |
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111/ In case you were wondering: «these are the only four team topologies nee… |
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Post #AuIE5Iq0X9WYmMMGEi by [email protected] |
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112/ DRUMROLL!«A "stream" is the continuous flow of work aligned to … |
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Post #AuIEfLP0TavL9pukwi by [email protected] |
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113/ We are at 2 or 3 of Amazon Rocks Actually. Whatever they did 15 years ago … |
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Post #AuIFLhUSkBbxpCfC1w by [email protected] |
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114/ YASS! «A stream should flow unimpeded»!!! This is my favorite. Absolute … |
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Post #AuIGFlkG6zcpEmmtF2 by [email protected] |
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@PatriciaI heard words, I don't understand what they mean? |
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Post #AuIGShfiZEWkMwpaVc by [email protected] |
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@worldwidewerner Translation: they are a cross functional team but if we call i… |
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Post #AuIGvyRdHkhYmrCT2W by [email protected] |
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115/ «Enabling Team» is basically a «DevOps team» (which they hated on last… |
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Post #AuIJgvJyupK0cQ8W7k by [email protected] |
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116/ Here is an excellent example of Other Peopleâs Thoughts. This is imo a v… |
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Post #AuIK9EwzWoJfbcsx5E by [email protected] |
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117/ Good news! We are over halfway through the book!Page 100! |
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Post #AuILF2MrK7MCGyJSQS by [email protected] |
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118/ The only new thought so far in chapter 5 is Enabling Teams, I donât know… |
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Post #AuIMzJMGaMd8F6fH04 by [email protected] |
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@Lingmops In this «model» «platform teams» and «enabling teams» are diffe… |
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Post #AuIOTK1Gn6e6w3iYpE by [email protected] |
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@Patricia we don't have a DBA in the company I work at. But I have worked b… |
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Post #AuISYH07qBIKq2nat6 by [email protected] |
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@tautology Oh losing specialists has definitely been a cost over this era, Iâ… |
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Post #AuIShzg76KZy0b4cue by [email protected] |
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@tautology this is a thing where this kind of concept could help, a company doe… |
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Post #AuIT1SBhKOQZvn7sZs by [email protected] |
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Looking at that list of four teams my first thought was "wtf" but my … |
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Post #AuIWy6siUFOmnbuPTc by [email protected] |
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@Patricia build systems will always be "compartmentalized knowledge" … |
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Post #AuIZ4lL9Ax1DvPVULw by [email protected] |
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@mhoemmen Oh, I had a term for this I probably stole from someone decades ago: … |
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Post #AuIaJV4g26xrmAOWG0 by [email protected] |
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119/ Before I wrap up for the night I want to add one last thing: an organizati… |
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Post #AuIajokZVAaWKPXVUu by [email protected] |
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120/ We are a young profession, we donât know how to do this well. Weâre tr… |
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Post #AuIayqv5iWmTOvd4Hw by [email protected] |
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@Patricia âđŒâđŒâđŒâđŒâđŒđđđ |
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Post #AuIfmHgVOXQuPtdJJ2 by [email protected] |
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@Tallish_Tom @grimalkina ok, listening now, but from the beginning |
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Post #AuIhmwVPp3zyvgt5Zg by [email protected] |
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@Tallish_Tom @grimalkina now I feel like I have to read Swellers paper again, b… |
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Post #AuIhuCC9t7ydcHL42C by [email protected] |
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@Tallish_Tom @grimalkina this is my last post on that paper.https://social.viva… |
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Post #AuIsz1ldBXQQDcRApM by [email protected] |
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@Patricia (still following along when I get a chance)Wait until you read Marty … |
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Post #AuIvU5FoTGRbuzUVzU by [email protected] |
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@Patricia "Doing Business As ...""Doctor of Business Administrat… |
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Post #AuJG20GRWmGTN6Em3s by [email protected] |
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@Patricia it was to solve the particular problems they had, and not something i… |
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Post #AuJG20Nt56DfkBiifI by [email protected] |
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@Lingmops oh, yes, I think I have a post down the thread saying basically that. |
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Post #AuJGGcNAdbyXcKLwKe by [email protected] |
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@Lingmops This is the last post in that section. TL;DR: hyper scaling an engine… |
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Post #AuJGLIzq6dDgyEfuro by [email protected] |
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@james Huh, is that in this book? |
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Post #AuJHtVbzoBRhteObLs by [email protected] |
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@Patricia we have DBA singular. I'm not sure his role isn't wider as we… |
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Post #AuJJUFYoY8UCmbzVL6 by [email protected] |
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@Tallish_Tom @grimalkina went to sleep so finished this morning. What you are s… |
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Post #AuJJWXqRXWxg4PKaX2 by [email protected] |
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@Tallish_Tom @grimalkina This thread is massive so I donât expect to you to r… |
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Post #AuJK1uvflLpUdrjjDU by [email protected] |
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@drgroftehauge Oh this book is 90% just describing common practice, but in the … |
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Post #AuJV14NAGXk38WOUhU by [email protected] |
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121/ Yâall ready to finish this book? We are about to start the «Platform ar… |
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Post #AuJW3fl4L1Z1cRNdUe by [email protected] |
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122/ Iâm starting to feel bad for Henrik Kniberg, author of the «Real Life A… |
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Post #AuJWQabdexM0IgtfZw by [email protected] |
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123/ 1/2 a page on Thinnest Viable Platform, which is basically «donât overe… |
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Post #AuJWoukePYadjKi9zM by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I was on a call during lockdown & the Spotify person on it said t… |
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Post #AuJXdbIeUWi2AemgCm by [email protected] |
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124/ Ok, this was so basic I doubt it would be useful to anyone working on plat… |
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Post #AuJXxYidnRV9xTSOx6 by [email protected] |
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@Tallish_Tom Apparently they didnât even do it when they wrote it, it was mor… |
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Post #AuJbWTuFyuJL1vEaB6 by [email protected] |
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@PatriciaSee also: management as a hermetic profession.This is so well-establis… |
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Post #AuJcCbQoOSlKWzXwv2 by [email protected] |
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125/ The rest of chapter 5 is just reorg. |
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Post #AuJcFzXpCL9OBYRW0O by [email protected] |
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@KatS đŻ unfortunately that seems to be the norm these days |
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Post #AuJcxH0e8jOentYuvI by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I honestly hadn't come across "hyperscaling" in org ter… |
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Post #AuJehI5UYzVrQGKqki by [email protected] |
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@Tallish_Tom đŻ which by extension means that what hyper scaling orgs do to n… |
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Post #AuJeyoszsAOW4Hqigq by [email protected] |
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126/ Alright! Chapter 6!«Choose Team-First Boundaries» based on the reference… |
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Post #AuJfg0ywmANI2FEHlQ by [email protected] |
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127/ Sigh. Weâre on the «monolith bad» «DBA bad» train. I promise you a D… |
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Post #AuJfvcMS5EkcJAfD9c by [email protected] |
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128/ Is there a book on Minimal Viable Architecture? There should be and these … |
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Post #AuJgMR3qCmzP51kKWm by [email protected] |
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129/ Lol, Iâm gonna do their quote out of context cherry picking back at them… |
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Post #AuJkYRklr9YEWFoESW by [email protected] |
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130/ It hadnât occurred to me that this was a whirlwind tour of «relatively … |
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Post #AuJl8wMDY5XtrQj4s4 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Well, there's the myth of management for you. |
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Post #AuJlKfwsNjq8ReT7RY by [email protected] |
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131/ You know what is hilarious? They want to get rid of architects because arc… |
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Post #AuJothXWl2ExNU0NWa by [email protected] |
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132/ It is fascinating how little self awareness is expressed in this book.How … |
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Post #AuJp7UHopWhWKMEPFA by [email protected] |
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133/ Iâm bored, chapter 6 is 100% about splitting up code to fit with whateve… |
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Post #AuJpYMVDsVKa0NJdR2 by [email protected] |
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134/ «Cognitive Load» pisses me off as much as it did the first time, but thi… |
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Post #AuJrozzr0XVh2FhiBE by [email protected] |
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135/ Tell me more about how you have no fucking clue what you are talking about… |
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Post #AuJrvuQa6xCRn5V6GG by [email protected] |
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136/ People pay these people actual money. |
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Post #AuJsOtur5oA6bMU9R2 by [email protected] |
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137/ Thatâs the end of chapter 6 and part 2, bringing us the what I expect to… |
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Post #AuJsnTx0lfQ9JNDONc by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I didn't fully get your criticism until the last quote, where the… |
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Post #AuJsnU3kMcoBeGMlsW by [email protected] |
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@arichtman The thing is they want «cross functional teams» so youâd need te… |
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Post #AuJswyirjD4xM47ubY by [email protected] |
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138/ Ref the post a couple of posts up, in case it wasnât clear: that org is … |
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Post #AuJtDVYLQwhToG5U0m by [email protected] |
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139/ I got so annoyed I lost the cap of my yellow highlighter. |
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Post #AuJtaavtb6oX9h6ztQ by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Apologies if I recomended this before (it's a good break):https:/… |
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Post #AuJvqaspkTrvXmR7Cq by [email protected] |
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@Patricia This can be the title of your book and the basis for your new consult… |
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Post #AuJwxZwxiXUQd8GIwC by [email protected] |
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140/ This chapter is just garbage because it displays a complete lack of unders… |
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Post #AuJxZOQ52FXrsDueki by [email protected] |
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141/ I have a talk about this in the morning. I need a whole week. đđđ |
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Post #AuJyw8c84B1BT3xSyG by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I'm not sure how much of that was directed at me vs the authors ïżœ… |
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Post #AuJzIqZJKDNAA3T63c by [email protected] |
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@Patricia And then there is the follow-on advanced book on what to do after ask… |
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Post #AuK0HU5tUzy67echE0 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia thereâs a lot of grievances about structuring teams around micro se… |
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Post #AuK1olWjnwHDhTc2fA by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I read through most of your thread and came to the conclusion that yo… |
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Post #AuK2ACJDQQ82qOVVb6 by [email protected] |
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142/ Iâm rolling my eyes through chapter 7 as fast as I possibly can. This wh… |
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Post #AuK2rkZBvpCVXokOLw by [email protected] |
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143/ Ok, I feel I need to be clear here. My problem with this chapter and tbh t… |
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Post #AuK3vP3jw9xXxALG1g by [email protected] |
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144/ Final chapter (before the conclusion!Chapter 8: «Evolve Team Structures w… |
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Post #AuK4eTL2sFwqFvvWu8 by [email protected] |
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145/ One of the things that makes this book so frustrating is that they are con… |
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Post #AuK5F8Yn5eWIWmq6Ou by [email protected] |
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146/ You cannot with a straight face quote Accelerate (great book) which states… |
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Post #AuK6JUiGlgZKLWulLE by [email protected] |
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147/ Yet another example of not understanding the technologies they talk about:… |
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Post #AuK7D0WEDU74uvkkRU by [email protected] |
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@Patricia After seeing the way this stuff is written, I think I understand now … |
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Post #AuK7x26MfDDn9BbOMa by [email protected] |
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148/ How much of a micro-managing control-freak do you need to be to think that… |
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Post #AuK852XSvFc8os62T2 by [email protected] |
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@jadonn đŻ |
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Post #AuK9C1KZuZcl3Rxdg0 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia |
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Post #AuK9kGvWQtcpGoZcVU by [email protected] |
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@bagmangood Omg can I use that in my talk? |
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Post #AuK9mohTpoH2b1DdYW by [email protected] |
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@Patricia go right ahead - I spent all of 5 seconds making it |
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Post #AuK9y9DJuErJP3Vye8 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia o.O wat? |
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Post #AuK9y9LpObfFpRUluK by [email protected] |
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@hazardius Have you submitted the appropriate ticket to speak? No? Well, do tha… |
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Post #AuKA1anVo5Mzoz5O88 by [email protected] |
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@bagmangood đ |
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Post #AuKA58MVTIUKmw8va4 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia happy to contribute - I've really enjoyed this thread (and have a… |
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Post #AuKAFYpDw9Ijl4Xz1s by [email protected] |
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@hazardius Even as a joke that felt mean đł sorry! |
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Post #AuKBazenTJfP0kSCTA by [email protected] |
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149/ OMG. Yet another thing I missed the first time I read the book. Maybe beca… |
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Post #AuKBna7pi2M5ag2P1E by [email protected] |
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150/ My jokes were apparently not niche enough yet. |
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Post #AuKCxEcEdW25jIQP6u by [email protected] |
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151/ JUST ASK THEM.IâM DYING HERE.I am an introvert, like at least half my fi… |
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Post #AuKDb8i80gkp00D2m0 by [email protected] |
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152/ I told you some DBA hurt them. Step forward, what did you do? Did you show… |
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Post #AuKEB7mWwQteXiQYsK by [email protected] |
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@Patricia no, sorry, you mentioned product management earlier and it reminded m… |
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Post #AuKFLW3jdJLkgizfma by [email protected] |
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@Patricia wtfThis sounds like the kind of insane advice that management people … |
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Post #AuKFMf8pLqbt94vF4q by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Nah, all's fine. I was worried that my comment can be read as a m… |
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Post #AuKFMfFCy7iLSruL1U by [email protected] |
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@hazardius đđđ |
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Post #AuKFc1pdGsVnrWGry4 by [email protected] |
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@james They look familiar⊠|
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Post #AuKFlyuF0HoDgUAlJQ by [email protected] |
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@jonoleth It is extremely hilarious that their «case studies» are mostly abou… |
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Post #AuKH5nyZS2YnWyDLs0 by [email protected] |
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153/ Alright, 2 things:1. The authors really need to read about Dr. Amy Edmonds… |
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Post #AuKHYrKU3vDAKTJmZE by [email protected] |
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154/ The authors have a very outdated understanding of how products are built t… |
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Post #AuKInwqdvTX9k87RgW by [email protected] |
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155/ Ok, before we move on to the conclusion, a few thoughts on how this book i… |
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Post #AuKJ1gJoBBVqX1JFnE by [email protected] |
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156/ This book is a mix of an extremely shallow Beginners Guide with an extreme… |
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Post #AuKJfVgB9fRZ7NlTwe by [email protected] |
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157/ Ok, the conclusion. |
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Post #AuKM3r8BFXXSVWbCxE by [email protected] |
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158/ One thing that is not at all discussed in the book is how expensive this i… |
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Post #AuKZS87h1WshYtHBUe by [email protected] |
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159/ Need to finish my slides.Wish me luck đł |
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Post #AuKZWllfZEOBfzBf9M by [email protected] |
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@Patricia average tenure in Silicon valley is 18 months, apparently. |
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Post #AuKZeWSqLk8EWt4v5M by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Good luck |
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Post #AuKZeWadskN0v4j9F2 by [email protected] |
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@jer đ |
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Post #AuKZgVcgRs5UV1d104 by [email protected] |
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@enno That does explain a few things |
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Post #AuKZjjicUtfl5Lwa1I by [email protected] |
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@Patricia And thank you for that thread. That was a journey. |
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Post #AuKZjjq43DcxSRQWci by [email protected] |
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@jer Iâm glad it was useful at least |
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Post #AuKZvkxFjB2kOTWHlA by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Useful? No idea. Entertaining for sure |
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Post #AuKZvl4LIoiMkSpwoK by [email protected] |
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@jer đ€Ł fair |
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Post #AuLPMZrAC5DDSEDaNc by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Good luck!Is the presentation being recorded? |
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Post #AuLTJnPXk34MROEDAm by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @jer quite useful to me, for sure. |
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Post #AuLbMGzxVUPOPtxB7g by [email protected] |
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@ignaziop1977 @jer đđđ |
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Post #AuLbMlOSUxpcgZeATY by [email protected] |
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@mattclarke Yes! But from experience it takes a while before itâs uploaded to… |
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Post #AuLcRMbgBMmpDGaWpc by [email protected] |
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160/ I think I pissed off a bunch of Team Topologies fanboys at my talk. But th… |
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Post #AuLcuMU3ib1zEIqpZw by [email protected] |
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@PatriciaThey will address you via their API? |
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Post #AuLdTrGLH8r2p8MSH2 by [email protected] |
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@worldwidewerner My bad. It's undocumented. |
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Post #AuLdaDarA9N7oqzOwy by [email protected] |
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161/ My slides, a bit more than I showed because I had a mic issue in the middl… |
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Post #AuLeswfsOKGqnmpa8u by [email protected] |
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162/ Someone called me «brave» on LinkedIn and said criticizing Team Topologi… |
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Post #AuLf4hSylC756tP4ka by [email protected] |
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163/ Shout out to folks who got this far in the thread and still came to my tal… |
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Post #AuLfFtJ352X5145wci by [email protected] |
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@Patricia The orthodoxy of groupthink is real. I inadvertently pissed on the e… |
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Post #AuLfcHyW2iQZtcAexc by [email protected] |
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@matt Pro tip, don't bring up Team Topologies with anyone đ |
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Post #AuLfhIj0gLobfaJATA by [email protected] |
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@Patricia It shouldn't be brave to have your own opinions on stuff đ |
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Post #AuLfhIq6FzUE1ZcpWK by [email protected] |
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@tymwol âIt is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salar… |
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Post #AuLfjtg4GS7or5Aajg by [email protected] |
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@tymwol I think I'm stepping on some folksâ bread and butter here |
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Post #AuLgEHrCvgTYXCs5fE by [email protected] |
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164/ Call me old (and brave), but this I think should be uncontroversial in 202… |
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Post #AuLh2ZL6CnS9EXpTVI by [email protected] |
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@Patricia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI |
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Post #AuLh2ZStjngvcjThey by [email protected] |
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@tymwol Lol |
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Post #AuLhZYtAtuoVOQV42C by [email protected] |
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@Patricia POST https://patricia.no/api/feedbackContent-Type: application/x-www-… |
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Post #AuLhZZ1KPbKrniJZk8 by [email protected] |
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@hallvors đ đ đ |
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Post #AuLiM9WK0dnyu3yrDs by [email protected] |
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165/ My way to round off this thread, I guess, are these simple things. You wan… |
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Post #AuLj6CXR7Y5VaHSYpk by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Hmm, reading your slides (and following the two threads) I can kind o… |
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Post #AuLjgmvzHLKetCOByi by [email protected] |
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@drgroftehauge Google/AWS/Microsoft arenât «normal» they shouldnât be rep… |
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Post #AuLndc8DO1D2KhqmuW by [email protected] |
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@Patricia You are very correct. |
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Post #AuLreuu9TPEsfB9JSa by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I don't think it is menacing. But I agree with them it is risky. … |
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Post #AuLrev2Iz5lF4SxpAW by [email protected] |
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@Di4na That says more about them than I think they realize |
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Post #AuLruN1jCKWgE63tGy by [email protected] |
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@Patricia great slides and deeply agree. Will share with the RE people, we agre… |
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Post #AuLruN8olyCIa5NYK8 by [email protected] |
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@Di4na One of these days I should read those papers⊠do you have a good «sta… |
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Post #AuLtG4FzlS9SKze3QO by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I don't have the patience to like every toot. Could you just cons… |
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Post #AuLtweFaKeSu8Dl0JE by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Tusen takk. |
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Post #AuLwUHm6bMQMBB8TKa by [email protected] |
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@klefstadmyr Yes and thank you đ |
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Post #AuLwZ4iUZz0R7yjHQu by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I think the classics would probably start with books actually. Mostly… |
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Post #AuLwmfORWmredupfii by [email protected] |
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@Di4na I do remember dabbling in how complex systems fail⊠but itâs years a… |
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Post #AuLx0OrbmUqLQo1TpQ by [email protected] |
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@Patricia oh totally. I guerilla fight it now.I think mostly they are desperate… |
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Post #AuLx0Oz3KonXntVQQq by [email protected] |
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@Di4na Sigh |
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Post #AuM0vdxkcDcgd3spfc by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Enjoyed this ride!! Nice work/rant/slides/etc.!I have thoughts, but p… |
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Post #AuM41bEZyNRxlaHofo by [email protected] |
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@GraziosiSergio Yeah my brain is fried |
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Post #AuM45vvOzGwf60Nnd2 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I can imagine!! |
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Post #AuM6Kdnyq0yh9P3J2W by ltning |
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@Patricia Thank you. I'm now well-armed to take on our new overlords when t… |
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Post #AuM9JtJdz3UYpTCGPY by [email protected] |
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@Patricia this took me a minute đ€Ł |
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Post #AuMHf5Rqs176Aheb56 by [email protected] |
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@PatriciaSaw this thread boosted and couldn't resist telling an old trope a… |
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Post #AuMSSp9qi7XzfWaXzs by [email protected] |
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@bagmangood Omg đ€Ł it wasnât even intentional đ |
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Post #AuMSrNjFpODJq4rJUO by [email protected] |
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@vnikolov Omg |
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Post #AuMTRbedWx3PS9yL7A by [email protected] |
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@Patricia tbf, How Complex Systems Fail is pretty small by itself :) It was not… |
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Post #AuMpLo4mdEtBETqFs0 by [email protected] |
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@Patricia It's not hard to communicate. Ask everyone to define what they t… |
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Post #AuMs3pBM54kFJS25r6 by [email protected] |
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@tuban_muzuru I was being sarcastic or joking or something |
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Post #AuMv0WyFdLA7pD1a9Q by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Understood So was I. I delegate the fight to the producers and consu… |
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Post #AuNA4W7KFQkNeFczIm by [email protected] |
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@Patricia FWIW, I enjoy "Patricia Yells at Books" in general. |
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Post #AuO0fKeD38vYPHsvmy by [email protected] |
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@Di4na @Patricia @mononcqc @StevenShorrock I would also recommend #PapersInSyst… |
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Post #AuOlAD97aMe60h0R1c by [email protected] |
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@Patricia The tooth monster mural by Phlegm is unfortunate long gone due to con… |
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Post #AuOlcWQrTQctvvnspc by [email protected] |
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@andersgo feel free to send me pictures of murals you see đ |
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Post #AuPdC29Yp5AO1JWtfc by [email protected] |
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@Patricia You copy paste together the barest of books and then you go on the co… |
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Post #AuPgM4Yz17CEFktoh6 by [email protected] |
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@alper Lolsob |
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Post #AuPjUpzOs655WP7ung by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I know this because Iâm guilty of this myself in a more limited dow… |
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Post #AuPqUwaB3dKLeJKJiy by [email protected] |
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@Patricia More like âunrealistic, defying regular Earth Physics and operating… |
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Post #AuPvHSZRpSC8ZkNJvU by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Thanks for posting and sharing your thinking, which requires effort/e… |
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Post #AuQMGhapBlNndfslQu by [email protected] |
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166/ Now also as a barely edited blog posthttps://patricia.no/2025/05/24/team_t… |
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Post #AuQMSETRHLJcnovSgi by [email protected] |
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@dahukanna Sounds right, cook up some time in the server room! We need to ship! |
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Post #AuQMy9LNt3lA9vNTO4 by [email protected] |
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@dahukanna If people werenât actually using this book as a roadmap to upend r… |
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Post #AuQnWMuqWyMYuDwTKq by [email protected] |
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@Patricia "Every team should have an API" factoid actually just stati… |
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Post #AuQu8WaZcACvdS2MIy by [email protected] |
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@PavelASamsonov Lol |
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Post #AuQzdLsxxVafBg9vBw by [email protected] |
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@james @Patricia Do you have any recommendations for good, insightful product m… |
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Post #AuRgrnTEUX0Wp8Fyl6 by [email protected] |
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@james @Luketoop Iâve read a few of those, but far from all, thinking about i… |
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Post #AuRkI6ixpRobvhquGG by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @Luketoop yes, this is what I was hinting at. Lot of product managers… |
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Post #AuRl5sIPkME1f1AHK4 by [email protected] |
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@james @Luketoop oh no I have to do a rage thread on OKRs too at some point ïżœ… |
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Post #AuRlCf816P3iqgXQ48 by [email protected] |
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@james @Luketoop tbh, I feel that devs are, but management isnât, so I feel t… |
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Post #AuRlsLhTj2nCkx0E5Y by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @Luketoop yes, preach! (All of this)I think one of the ways teams can… |
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Post #AuRmA8pQJzX030Ce6i by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @Luketoop my experience is mixed. I feel maybe the common factor is t… |
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Post #AuRmIf3WNuXKJcrMO0 by [email protected] |
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@james @Luketoop toxic teams are bad full stop. Itâs not you itâs them. Thi… |
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Post #AuRmQljjQga3LuT9sG by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @Luketoop yes, your thread already convinced me of that :) |
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Post #AuRnWEw6OSwPJbQbOy by [email protected] |
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@james @Luketoop it took me over a decade to realize that a lot of the people t… |
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Post #AuRo6kVoTL8pfgXZkO by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @Luketoop totally. I didnât mean to use âclock punchersâ as a j… |
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Post #AuRoOX03Ru7YybAHse by [email protected] |
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@james @Luketoop and burn out them. The gaming industry has been the worst at t… |
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Post #AuRoQu4Oe7wH6dKKYa by [email protected] |
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@james @Luketoop Yay! |
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Post #AuRomPVQxkbygVEFGa by [email protected] |
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@Patricia @Luketoop umm, yes. Rather too familiar with that. Though itâs been… |
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Post #AuRpbiwiRdWrkHSRvM by [email protected] |
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@james @Luketoop đđđ |
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Post #AuRpeIX36k4Eh0gD8C by [email protected] |
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@james @Luketoop sorry, I didnât know |
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Post #AuUDJHaeCXHSuEnL7Y by [email protected] |
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@Patricia With no sarcasm or humor included: you should, Iâd buy. |
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Post #AuUM1u4LIWqKcaTKs4 by [email protected] |
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@almad đ€Łđ«¶ |
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Post #AuUoTHPnP4NlYyLiTo by [email protected] |
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@Patricia The dynamic for the reorgs mostly is: Not doing the reorg is more exp… |
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Post #AuUpRl1KSazml1k7yS by [email protected] |
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@alper Why have leadership if they canât be bothered to figure out how we bui… |
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Post #AuUpY9wQiXy1mnVJxI by [email protected] |
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@Patricia No no no. That wonât get them their bonus.Leadership is this, every… |
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Post #AuUplzQsaOXRFPLEtk by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Also doing this job, is doing service to capitalism. No real way arou… |
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Post #AuUsMEOadAuTzJgC9Y by [email protected] |
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@alper Depends on what we build |
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Post #AuXNYaPG6gPGciHe5o by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Yea; some organizations have whole DBA groups. And they can be a nigh… |
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Post #AuXnZIBHx2LrCEkL8C by [email protected] |
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@JeffGrigg yeah, the tiny «prescriptive» part of my slides is about that: if … |
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Post #AuYZNRkhKsklCnj5Sy by [email protected] |
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@Patricia Yes. Some of the best and most impactful things I've done have be… |
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Post #AuYbC3I48yQs3s1oBM by [email protected] |
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@Patricia I look for problems to solve.When it's someone else's problem… |
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Post #AuYbC3QDeexET9qJtI by [email protected] |
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@JeffGrigg Same! |
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Post #Aud2smOoIN8dWMcZEW by [email protected] |
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@Patricia The Spice must flow! |
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Post #AvOr9mCuOD8NzCT8OO by [email protected] |
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@Patricia the biggest difference between cloud and embedded is that usually emb… |
