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#Post#: 30141--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: KerimF Date: March 10, 2022, 12:30 pm
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I am afraid that this is how wars are made, since always, to
serve certain powerful rich Elite; this could be seen in any
country around the world including Russia, America and where I
live as well :(
This reminds me, for example, the mothers of the American troops
who were sent to Iraq and died there. Their mothers were told
that there beloved sons were going to save the world from Iraq,
not to... God knows.
But there is, as usual. an exception to the rule. All miserable
kids, fruits of previous wars and conflicts (besides terror) or
fruits of poverty, who were/are raised in training camps around
the world (mainly in Afghanistan and Iraq) to become terrorist
when adults and sent to commit various terrorist crimes and
destruction in one country after another... have no mothers to
worry about them.
A side note:
In the Russian/American alliance, the American Elite didn't mind
sacrificing first more than 6 thousands of their people (more
than 3 thousand civilians on the 9/11 tragic day and more than 3
thousand troops in Iraq) to justify the long destruction of the
Arab world by Terror. Now, I wonder how many Russian troops will
be sacrificed by the Russian Elite to justify the coming long
destruction of Europe (also planned by this under-the-table
alliance). I won't be surprised if the number will be 10 fold if
not more. I recall how the Israeli air forces caused the death
of 18 Russian officers who were on a surveillance warplane
flying over the Syrian coast and how the case was closed
gradually as if nothing happened (but perhaps these officers had
no mothers).
#Post#: 30142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: KerimF Date: March 10, 2022, 12:56 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1518.msg30139#msg30139
date=1646934795]
Russia lost in Afghanistan. I would say the USA also lost
there.
[/quote]
In the time being, The Russian and American Elite are working
together like the German and American Elite were before WW2.
So Afghanistan (and many other countries, including Syria) is
actually under their direct control.
Now, it is easier for the powerful rich families in Afghanistan
producing more terrorists for them (many will be needed into
Europe... starting from Ukraine).
I said, in the time being, because I won't be surprised if the
end of the Russian Elite will be like of the German Elite who
thought that their alliance with their American counterparts was
real and their role was to unify Europe and let it be stronger
against Communism (their common enemy). But politics is
politics. It has nothing to do with friendship and love :D
#Post#: 30147--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: paralambano Date: March 11, 2022, 8:31 am
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Kerry - ^
Ah, the hypocrisy of it.
Who knew that merrye olde Londone town was an oligarchy for at
least two decades?
Apparently, the British government?
England and Canada sanction Abramovich. Why? Because he has a
30% stake in Evraz, a mining/steel production company owned by "
oligarchs" which has a plant in Saskatchewan, Canada. Evraz is
said to be helping Putin's war effort by supplying steel for his
tanks.
The Trudeau government subsidized that plant to the tune of $40
million to combat Trump's tarriffs. Why? To protect Canadian
jobs there, never mind that Abramovich is a shareholder.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-ukraine-russia-abramovich-sanctions-1.6…
How does crippling Chelsea stop Putin? The man has a bunch of
fat ol' yes-men around him in Moscow terrified.
Politics can ruin everything.
para . . . .
#Post#: 30151--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: Kerry Date: March 11, 2022, 12:24 pm
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[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1518.msg30147#msg30147
date=1647009108]
Kerry - ^
Ah, the hypocrisy of it.
Who knew that merrye olde Londone town was an oligarchy for at
least two decades?
Apparently, the British government?
England and Canada sanction Abramovich. Why? Because he has a
30% stake in Evraz, a mining/steel production company owned by "
oligarchs" which has a plant in Saskatchewan, Canada. Evraz is
said to be helping Putin's war effort by supplying steel for his
tanks.
The Trudeau government subsidized that plant to the tune of $40
million to combat Trump's tarriffs. Why? To protect Canadian
jobs there, never mind that Abramovich is a
shareholder.[/quote]Never mind? Maybe Trudeau should be
sanctioned for aiding and abetting.
[quote]
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-ukraine-russia-abramovich-sanctions-1.6…
How does crippling Chelsea stop Putin? The man has a bunch of
fat ol' yes-men around him in Moscow terrified.
Politics can ruin everything.[/quote]How the British are dealing
with Chelsea may be the craziest thing I've seen yet from Boris'
government. They had an interested buyer. Had a deal gone
though, the government could have made sure Abramovich actually
donated the money to charity as promised. By forbidding
activities that were sources of income, they will be reducing
the value of the club. That means if it ever gets sold, there
will be less aid for the victims of the war in Ukraine.
Why do such a crazy thing? At this point, I have to wonder if
Boris has a crony interested in buying it but a very cheap
price. I can't think of any other reason for it.
#Post#: 30153--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: paralambano Date: March 11, 2022, 2:00 pm
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Kerry - ^
The UK government has frozen Abramovich's assets. I might be
understanding it wrong but this is different from siezing them.
So this could mean he's still legally Chelsea's owner.
The UK wants to make sure that it gets to dispose of the $ from
any sale, not Abramovich by the asset route. They don't trust
him apparently.
All the rest of it appears to be punitive for some reason.
Abramovich treated Chelsea as his own personal charity, putting
money in to sustain it for 19 years. His pet project for
whatever personal satisfaction it gave him as I see it.
He might do well to speak up now since his club and fans are put
into a weird situation but he might be concerned he'd end up
like Berezovsky, an "open verdict" as to cause.
para . . . .
#Post#: 30159--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: Kerry Date: March 12, 2022, 8:04 am
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[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1518.msg30153#msg30153
date=1647028827]
Kerry - ^
The UK government has frozen Abramovich's assets. I might be
understanding it wrong but this is different from siezing them.
So this could mean he's still legally Chelsea's owner.[/quote]I
think you got that right. There is talk about changing how they
do things, seizing assets instead of freezing them. It's a big
problem with yachts. If you let them sit in dock, they can
fall into disrepair. In theory, they could be rented; but who
would want to sail in open waters in such a yacht? you'd have to
be very courageous.
A long time ago, the US seized the Iranian Embassy in
Washington. They rented it out to a woman; and the way it was
supposed to work was they'd collect the rent, and then give it
to Iran if and when the diplomatic problems got resolved. Well,
the woman failed to pay rent for quite a long time. Either no
one noticed or no one cared.
I wonder why food and beverages will be sold in Chelsea? Do
the vendors own their own businesses? Do they rent space from
Chelsea -- will they continue to pay rent?
It makes no sense to me to forbid Chelsea from selling tickets.
What's the point? Do they think Abramovich could somehow get
his hands on the money? Other sources of income are forbidden.
I think this could put the club into debt. How can they keep
paying all their employees and players -- I don't see how that
would work without putting the club in danger of bankruptcy.
If British law is like American, I believe they could be sued
later by Abramovich for failing to treat his assets responsibly
when they took control.
[quote]The UK wants to make sure that it gets to dispose of the
$ from any sale, not Abramovich by the asset route. They don't
trust him apparently. [/quote]One thing seems clear to me: The
two parties haven't talked. If Abramovich is sincere about the
charity, he could tell the Johnson government to set up up the
charity and he'd sign the club over to the charity which would
be under the control of the government until it was sold.
[quote]All the rest of it appears to be punitive for some
reason. Abramovich treated Chelsea as his own personal charity,
putting money in to sustain it for 19 years. His pet project for
whatever personal satisfaction it gave him as I see it.[/quote]
You think? He paid 140 million pounds all told for the club.
He lent it 1.5 billion, interest free. It was reported he
wanted to sell it for 3 bilion. There were several interested
parties too even though Abramovich said in his statement that
the sale would not be "fast tracked." If you write the loan
off as a loss, he would still have made close to 1.4 billion
pounds profit if allowed to keep the money.
[quote]He might do well to speak up now since his club and fans
are put into a weird situation but he might be concerned he'd
end up like Berezovsky, an "open verdict" as to cause.[/quote]I
have the feeling Abramovich isn't being completely transparent.
He can say he put Chelsea in a charity; but he'd have to own the
charity in order to sell it. It seems fairly clear the charity
would have been a shell company under his control.
#Post#: 30163--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: paralambano Date: March 12, 2022, 3:42 pm
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Kerry - ^
There are operational costs which are balanced by what comes in
as revenue. Abramovich has injected about 1.2 billion into the
club interest free with no outstanding debts to any
extra-company financial institutions with interest. The goal was
for the club to become financially self-sustaining. His was not
the only club which increased in value during his tenure. This
was because of the drastic increase in broadcast revenue and
smart commercial marketing of the club.
What do they do about away fans who want to follow their clubs
into Stamford Bridge? Have them come in for free? Chelsea fans
can't buy tickets, only season ticket-holders get to enter. So
away fans get to watch for free while Chelsea fans can't get in?
So silly the loss of revenue if it all goes to charity. Too,
travel costs for the teams have been capped. Catering has been
given a special license to continue. This whole thing is
ridiculous. Shirt sales have been stopped as well. Three
sponsors have left. What does any of this have to do with
hurting Putin? I understand that there are people dying in
Ukraine. That's what really matters. But you make that right by
diplomacy or war, not going after a club these ways which isn't
contributing to the Russian war effort.
As far as I know, Abramovich has given the running of the club
over to the trustees. I don't know if they've accepted. In any
case, they can't do anything financially like contract
transactions since that's part of the sanctions. I don't know
that an outside charity would be able to run the club bare
minimum. That's why Abramovich signed it over to football
people.
There are a bunch of buyers lined up with bids I heard at around
2 billion. I also heard that it takes at least 10 days for
serious offers to come in. So, maybe a deal soon.
It's just all so strange.
para . . . .
#Post#: 30166--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: KerimF Date: March 12, 2022, 4:20 pm
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[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1518.msg30163#msg30163
date=1647121352]
It's just all so strange.
[/quote]
I am not a follower (familiar) of what is happening in the world
of sports. So I barely understand what you talk here with Kerry.
My question is:
Is there a rich person in the sport's world who became poor
because of sanctions?
AFAIK sanctions are actually against the ordinary people, in any
targeted country, not against their rich Elite. This fact is
seen very clearly in Syria and Lebanon, to name a few. But,
perhaps in the world of sports things are different.
Thank you.
#Post#: 30176--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: paralambano Date: March 13, 2022, 7:42 am
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Kerim ^
I'm not a sports expert, just a soccer fan.
My understanding is that sanctions aren't meant to destroy a
club but to make them pay in some ways for objectionable
behaviour. Banning them would hurt more.
My objection to what's happening with Chelsea FC is that
measures were taken against it which don't appear to correlate
to the Russian war effort or to hampering the West's response to
the war. It's unprecedented as to circumstance in the EPL.
Fans don't like to see impoverished owners since well, they
provide the entertainment. It would be like those who like
symphonies not wanting them to fold due to bankruptcy.
Many clubs wish they had a rich patron. What made Abramovich
beloved at Chelsea was his actual love of the game, care of the
club, and successes (most successful in EPL by tenure). Some
owners really don't know the game and see it as a business to
buy and sell, hardly putting in any money and wishing only to
maintain the status quo mid-table. Not so Abramovich. He
advanced the beautiful game in London. There are some green with
envy over it.
For what he did for Chelsea soccer, I say Bravo, Mr. Abramovich!
Current UEFA Champions League and Club World Cup winners. Earned
the right to be currently called the best performing club in the
world.
I don't envy the rich or the poor.
https://youtube.com/shorts/KZdQlcCM8Zk?feature=share
para . . . .
#Post#: 30178--------------------------------------------------
Re: Europe Spring just Began
By: Kerry Date: March 13, 2022, 9:03 am
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[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1518.msg30176#msg30176
date=1647175356]
For what he did for Chelsea soccer, I say Bravo, Mr. Abramovich!
[/quote]What should we say about what he did for Vladimir Putin?
https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/how-roman-abramovich-played-a-huge-role-in-putin-…
How Roman Abramovich Played A Huge Role In Putin Becoming
President
Chelsea FC owner Roman Abramovich was key to Vladimir Putin
securing the Russian presidency, according to a new podcast.
Abramovich was one of seven to be hit by the UK government's
latest sanctions against oligarchs, alongside Igor Sechin and
Oleg Deripaska, accused of having the 'blood of the Ukrainian
people on their hands'.
The 55-year-old, who has an estimated net worth of �9.4 billion,
is alleged to have strong ties to Putin � which he's denied �
and remains 'one of the few oligarchs from the 1990s to maintain
prominence under Putin', according to the government.
'Abramovich is associated with a person who is/has been involved
in destabilising Ukraine and undermining/threatening territorial
integrity, sovereignty & independence of Ukraine, namely
Vladimir Putin, with whom (he) has had close relationship for
decades,' the government's statement on the sanctions reads.
'The plan was this: Yeltsin appoints someone prime minister,
Yeltsin resigns, the prime minister becomes the new president,'
it explains. However, there was one problem: Boris Berezovsky,
who helped to re-elect Yeltsin, was still a bit sceptical over
Putin, and wasn't ready to commit to 'this little-known
bureaucrat from the KGB'.
'October 6, 1999: it was Putin's birthday. Berezovsky was still
on the fence about whether he wanted to support him or not,' the
podcast continues.
'He sent his young prot�g� Abramovich � yes, Roman Abramovich.
Well, he sent him to Putin's birthday to check Putin out.'
Berezovsky wanted him to see if he was a 'normal person or not',
check if he was having a fling with anyone, how he behaved with
his wife, 'if he was a monster', and what sort of people
attended his party.
Abramovich reportedly told Berezovsky he couldn't see any issues
with Putin, which seemed to pave the way for the presidency.
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