| Return Create A Forum - Home | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Love God Only | |
| https://lovegodonly.createaforum.com | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| ***************************************************** | |
| Return to: Sports | |
| ***************************************************** | |
| #Post#: 21375-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Chelsea | |
| By: Kerry Date: February 3, 2019, 4:45 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| We have so many posts about Chelsea, I thought I'd start a | |
| thread. I copied this post from another thread. | |
| [quote author=paralambano link=topic=1303.msg21353#msg21353 | |
| date=1548872590] | |
| Kerry - ^ | |
| As you might know, some youtube uploaders aren't precise in | |
| naming their uploads and some vids aren't official at all. | |
| Sarriball is Sarriball regardless of the year. I think you have | |
| the capacity to understand the second vid when you're wide | |
| awake. Formations, the terms used in the vid which I'm now clear | |
| about, sunk in by osmosis for me through the decades ;) | |
| :).[/quote] | |
| I don't think it fair to say everything a team does at first | |
| playing for Sarri is Sarriball. | |
| [quote]No, I'm not inconsistent about the three points and refs. | |
| You put forward a hypothetical situation, so I'll give a | |
| hypothetical answer. A boot to the crotch co-ed style is likely | |
| accidental as is a male player falling onto a woman player. Refs | |
| should be enforcing consequences for what appears to be intended | |
| fouls in both separate gender-games. As far as I know, there are | |
| no co-ed leagues. In France, it's four points for a win in the | |
| women's league, two for a tie, and one for a loss. | |
| My objection to co-ed matches is that men are more physically | |
| imposing than women on average. As I've indicated, women's teams | |
| play teams of 15-year-old males to sharpen their skills and can | |
| be badly beaten by them.[/quote] | |
| For me, it comes down to damage done by the rules. Intention or | |
| lack of intention is hard to figure. | |
| [quote]Liverpool were eliminated from the League Cup by a lesser | |
| club. It happens. You see Juventus getting knocked out of the | |
| Coppa Italia today by Atalanta, a club that is 27 points behind | |
| them in Serie A. If you're in a Premier, you're getting Premier | |
| money. I don't like offenders and weaker clubs determining win | |
| weights. This strikes me as socialized entertainment. Those | |
| clubs who are very good ought to be seen as very good by points. | |
| Yes, the penalty for the bad day is greater but it ought to be | |
| for the better clubs. They're not playing up to capacity when | |
| they're losing matches they shouldn't. I don't like playoffs | |
| because it encourages mediocrity. In most soccer leagues, every | |
| match is important for its title unless it's mathematically | |
| impossible to catch them.[/quote]Would it have mattered anyway? | |
| I remind you too that Atalanta probably wouldn't have been 27 | |
| points behind Juventus if teams got two points for a win and not | |
| three. | |
| Also there wouldn't be that many more playoffs using a two-point | |
| system for wins. At most, you might need a playoff between the | |
| two top teams or possibly three. | |
| [quote]Often in soccer, there's the back-pass. One step | |
| backwards, two steps forward. The reason for it is mainly to | |
| retain possession. Also, the player in front with the ball | |
| doesn't see the pitch as well as the player behind him without | |
| the ball. The player behind has a wider view of who's available | |
| since the ball-carrier is concentrating on dribbling and just | |
| retaining the ball. Sometimes front-dribblers run into walls and | |
| their only option is the back-pass. As well, the back-pass can | |
| work as the first step in re-cycling the ball for the "switch" - | |
| - that is, starting the attack from the other flank of the | |
| pitch. [/quote] | |
| I can see another possible advantage. If the goal area is | |
| crowded, a back pass might draw some defenders back; and then | |
| you pass the ball forward again, your chances of scoring would | |
| be better. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't catch the pattern | |
| watching the video. I saw what looked like meaningless passes | |
| to me. | |
| The highlights of Chelsea's game with Huddersfield contained | |
| some moves that confused me terribly. Maybe there's an | |
| explanation, maybe you can provide it. It left me dazed. | |
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj89xAhRTp0 | |
| The first move that puzzled me is at 4:24 when #9 passes the | |
| ball to #22 in the corner more or less. I was expected #22 to | |
| pass the ball back to another player better positioned to take | |
| the shot; but he took it and missed. | |
| The next one that puzzled me follows that immediately. Someone | |
| makes a splendid pass to #28 who passes it to #22 who passes | |
| back to #28 who is in the corner at that point. Huh? I found | |
| pass to #28 impressive since whoever kicked the ball was | |
| predicting where #28 could be in the future, and #28 arrived | |
| smoothly to receive the pass. But why did #22 pass it back to | |
| #28? | |
| I have other questions about Sarri-ball in Serie A. In the | |
| 2015-2016 season | |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015�16_Serie_A, | |
| when Sarri first | |
| arrived, Juventus placed first with 91 points; and Napoli came | |
| in second with 82 and with Roma a close third with 80. That was | |
| great improvement over the prior season. Sarri seemed to get | |
| wonderful results quickly. | |
| Then in the 2016-2017 season | |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016�17_Serie_A, | |
| Juventus had 91 | |
| points again; but Roma came in second with 87 points, one point | |
| ahead of Napoli who slipped to third with 86. | |
| Napoli regained second place in the 2017-2018 season | |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017�18_Serie_A. | |
| Juventus had 95 | |
| points, Napoli had 91 and poor Roma had slipped to 77. | |
| This makes me ask if it is true that it takes time, lots of | |
| time, for the techniques of Sarri-ball to be manifested on the | |
| pitch. It seems to me, Sarri's most astonishing result was in | |
| the first year he was there. And that forces me to ask also if | |
| there were other changes at Napoli at the time that helped | |
| produce that improvement over the 2014-2015 season when Napoli | |
| ranked fifth with 63 points? I can think of one: Higuain. | |
| #Post#: 21383-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Chelsea | |
| By: paralambano Date: February 3, 2019, 7:53 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Kerry - ^ | |
| Ya, not everything Chelsea does is Sarriball. Why do you think | |
| Sarri gets upset with his players? As I said, it's easier to | |
| implement his system in Spain and Italy because of the type of | |
| play there. His is an experiment, much like Pep's when he went | |
| over to Manchester and I say go for it. Take a look at Jurgen's | |
| and Pep's records their debut seasons. It took a while to get | |
| the ball rolling for both. And now look at them. Pep broke many | |
| EPL records and Klopp was in the CL final last season. The last | |
| EPL club to win the CL was Chelsea. | |
| Ya, it's hard to judge intention but my point is that you don't | |
| change a point system on the basis of a hypothetical (co-ed | |
| soccer). And you don't change it on the basis of offenses. I see | |
| some things being let go by some refs. Some are reluctant to | |
| give early yellows. Look at what Messi and Neymar endure before | |
| the ref finally pulls out the card. | |
| I like the point spread with 3 First, it's a difficult game with | |
| the most km run of any sport on average. Giving 2 points for a | |
| win is just being stingy for the effort I think. In the NFL it's | |
| something like 6 for a touchdown and a bunch of other extras. I | |
| don't know how many points are awarded for a win since I don't | |
| follow the game but if it's 2, they sure make up for it by all | |
| the points awarded during the game. | |
| I think the 3 point system really separates the very good teams | |
| from the bad. | |
| Ya, I didn't list all the advantages of the back-pass. I agree | |
| with what you wrote about it moving defenders. A back-pass can | |
| be used to draw opponents forward deeper into one's half so that | |
| their last line plays higher. This allows speedy wingers more | |
| space behind them if the attackers remain onside. | |
| The only meaningless passing in soccer is one without purpose. | |
| Barcelona and some other clubs are masters of wearing opponents | |
| down and aggravating them with their possession. Their opponents | |
| tire of chasing the ball. Also passing which appears to be | |
| meaningless is used to calm one side, gives them a chance to | |
| catch one's breath. Barcelona can dictate the tempo of the game. | |
| I've seen Messi stop play altogether standing with his foot on | |
| top of a dead ball as if daring his opponents to come get it | |
| before dribbling or passing the ball away. | |
| Kerry, it's a fast game. Players really need to make | |
| split-second decisions. The don't see the pitch from our | |
| bird's-eye view. Often they make a bad decision. Sometimes they | |
| think they can score when they can't. The point is that they | |
| need to keep the number of mistakes down. It really is a game of | |
| mistakes and the team with fewer usually wins. A player will | |
| pass to another in a corner so that the latter can loft it into | |
| the box. Remember, the player with the ball is busy with it and | |
| the one without it might better see who to give it to when they | |
| get it. Play off the ball is as important as having it. | |
| Sometimes I'm yelling at my screen for the ball-carrier to give | |
| it to a player in space but the ball's given to another and I | |
| was wrong about it. | |
| Well, ya, Higuain. But it's also the technical players Sarri had | |
| in the Italian style. Please watch a Serie A match all the way | |
| through, then an EPL one. You ought to see the difference in | |
| manner of play pretty much immediately. | |
| para . . . . | |
| #Post#: 21469-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Chelsea | |
| By: Kerry Date: February 12, 2019, 3:30 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=paralambano link=topic=1384.msg21383#msg21383 | |
| date=1549202010] | |
| Kerry - ^ | |
| Ya, not everything Chelsea does is Sarriball. Why do you think | |
| Sarri gets upset with his players? As I said, it's easier to | |
| implement his system in Spain and Italy because of the type of | |
| play there. His is an experiment, much like Pep's when he went | |
| over to Manchester and I say go for it. Take a look at Jurgen's | |
| and Pep's records their debut seasons. It took a while to get | |
| the ball rolling for both. And now look at them. Pep broke many | |
| EPL records and Klopp was in the CL final last season. The last | |
| EPL club to win the CL was Chelsea.[/quote]There's that and then | |
| there's the matter of age too. I'm not sure, but I think I read | |
| that Sarri wants more younger players. Some of the current | |
| players cannot play at the top speeds Sarri wants for 90 | |
| minutes. | |
| [quote]Ya, it's hard to judge intention but my point is that you | |
| don't change a point system on the basis of a hypothetical | |
| (co-ed soccer). And you don't change it on the basis of | |
| offenses. I see some things being let go by some refs. Some are | |
| reluctant to give early yellows. Look at what Messi and Neymar | |
| endure before the ref finally pulls out the card.[/quote] | |
| I checked out one Season of Serie A matches. Both point | |
| systems gave the same final standings. | |
| [quote]I like the point spread with 3 First, it's a difficult | |
| game with the most km run of any sport on average. Giving 2 | |
| points for a win is just being stingy for the effort I think. In | |
| the NFL it's something like 6 for a touchdown and a bunch of | |
| other extras. I don't know how many points are awarded for a win | |
| since I don't follow the game but if it's 2, they sure make up | |
| for it by all the points awarded during the game. | |
| I think the 3 point system really separates the very good teams | |
| from the bad. [/quote]I can't see it, not from the one Serie A | |
| season I looked at. | |
| I like 2 because it's known beforehand exactly how many points | |
| there are to go around. | |
| [quote]Ya, I didn't list all the advantages of the back-pass. I | |
| agree with what you wrote about it moving defenders. A back-pass | |
| can be used to draw opponents forward deeper into one's half so | |
| that their last line plays higher. This allows speedy wingers | |
| more space behind them if the attackers remain onside. | |
| The only meaningless passing in soccer is one without purpose. | |
| Barcelona and some other clubs are masters of wearing opponents | |
| down and aggravating them with their possession. Their opponents | |
| tire of chasing the ball. Also passing which appears to be | |
| meaningless is used to calm one side, gives them a chance to | |
| catch one's breath. Barcelona can dictate the tempo of the game. | |
| I've seen Messi stop play altogether standing with his foot on | |
| top of a dead ball as if daring his opponents to come get it | |
| before dribbling or passing the ball away. [/quote] | |
| I'm at a disadvantage not watching entire games; but I think I | |
| can discern some things from highlights. I think you nailed it | |
| with the comment about Barcelona often being able to wear down | |
| other teams. That makes sense and is a great technique. | |
| Sarri-ball, from what I can discern, seems to wear down Chelsea | |
| players more than their opponents at times. They seem to using | |
| speed and passes just because Sarri wants them to -- it looks | |
| meaningless to me at times. | |
| Sarri-ball also seems a bit too predictable. Messi, as you | |
| point out, can be unpredictable. Perhaps if I watched more | |
| match highlights when Chelsea lost I could get a better picture | |
| of what's going wrong. I suspect -- again I don't know -- that | |
| sometimes when Messi stalls like that, it serves more than one | |
| purpose. The one Chelsea seems to need to master perhaps is | |
| how to regain their balance when things go awry and positions | |
| get lost. I suspect that sometimes Messi is stalling to enable | |
| the other players to take up better positions. While the | |
| opponents are looking at him, his teammates are improving their | |
| positions, getting ready for the next play. I suspect that, but | |
| I don't know. If that is what is going on, Chelsea might | |
| improve by imitating the technique. The question may be if | |
| Hazard or Higuain can master that technique -- or if Sarri would | |
| approve of it. I don't know if Sarri is aware of the | |
| technique -- perhaps not since he complains about how Chelsea | |
| players get confused. I assume that every team has to deal | |
| with some confusion. Anytime a player steals the ball from the | |
| other team, there is an interval of time where everyone has to | |
| deal with the fact that possession of the ball has changed. | |
| Positions of players may need adjusting. Who knows? | |
| The thing about Messi doing that is that it does not result in | |
| confusion in the Barcelona ranks. It may confuse the other | |
| team, but not the Barcelona players. It's also a good morale | |
| booster, I think, to see him standing there seemingly doing | |
| nothing but still in control. If his teammates were momentarily | |
| confused, seeing him in control would cure it. | |
| [quote]Kerry, it's a fast game. Players really need to make | |
| split-second decisions. The don't see the pitch from our | |
| bird's-eye view. Often they make a bad decision. Sometimes they | |
| think they can score when they can't. The point is that they | |
| need to keep the number of mistakes down. It really is a game of | |
| mistakes and the team with fewer usually wins. A player will | |
| pass to another in a corner so that the latter can loft it into | |
| the box. Remember, the player with the ball is busy with it and | |
| the one without it might better see who to give it to when they | |
| get it. Play off the ball is as important as having it. | |
| Sometimes I'm yelling at my screen for the ball-carrier to give | |
| it to a player in space but the ball's given to another and I | |
| was wrong about it. [/quote]Let me put it another way then: I | |
| never saw the Barcelona team make a series of passes like that. | |
| Absolutely they aren't seeing the pitch from the bird's eye | |
| view; but when a team is functioning well as a team, they | |
| instinctively know where lots of other players will probably be. | |
| [quote]Well, ya, Higuain. But it's also the technical players | |
| Sarri had in the Italian style. Please watch a Serie A match all | |
| the way through, then an EPL one. You ought to see the | |
| difference in manner of play pretty much immediately. | |
| [/quote]Why did he take the job at Chelsea then? | |
| Whether he keeps his job may depend on the Europa League matches | |
| coming up soon. I checked out the standings -- Chelsea's not | |
| doing too bad. If Sarri can do good enough to get them back in | |
| the UEFA Champions League, he may not get the ax. | |
| #Post#: 21470-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Chelsea | |
| By: paralambano Date: February 12, 2019, 4:30 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Kerry - | |
| [quote]There's that and then there's the matter of age too. I'm | |
| not sure, but I think I read that Sarri wants more younger | |
| players. Some of the current players cannot play at the top | |
| speeds Sarri wants for 90 minutes.[/quote] | |
| That's right. He needs younger players who are still teachable. | |
| His system is an extreme one. That's what makes it interesting | |
| for me. Can he do with his system what Pep did with his in | |
| England? Watch Man City play to see how closely they resemble | |
| Barca at times. British football's being revolutionized by these | |
| guys. Even Jurgen at Liverpool has brought his own style there. | |
| These aren't British coaches. They don't want 50/50 and second | |
| balls, the hoof it up and chase it style of play. | |
| [quote]I checked out one Season of Serie A matches. Both point | |
| systems gave the same final standings.[/quote] | |
| Then why change it? I still think that the three points gives a | |
| psychological advantage (or disadvantage) over the two. | |
| [quote]I like 2 because it's known beforehand exactly how many | |
| points there are to go around. [/quote] | |
| It's entertainment for me, Kerry. I'd rather not know it. | |
| Knowing the end from the beginning can be a fool's game in this | |
| sport since there are some shocking developments. Look at how | |
| Real are creeping up on Barca and how Barca have only gotten | |
| three points out of a possible nine currently. It's more of a | |
| day-by-day thing for me, a build or countdown to how many games | |
| left. | |
| [quote]I'm at a disadvantage not watching entire games; but I | |
| think I can discern some things from highlights. I think you | |
| nailed it with the comment about Barcelona often being able to | |
| wear down other teams. That makes sense and is a great | |
| technique. Sarri-ball, from what I can discern, seems to wear | |
| down Chelsea players more than their opponents at times. They | |
| seem to using speed and passes just because Sarri wants them to | |
| -- it looks meaningless to me at times. [/quote] | |
| It is at times but the least that can be said for meaningless | |
| passes is that one still retains possession. The other team | |
| can't score on you when you possess the ball. That's a rather | |
| negative way of looking at it and it would be so if your club | |
| wasn't an attacking one and Napoli was an attacking club under | |
| Sarri. It finished second last season just under a fabulous | |
| Juventus. The problem at Chelsea is that the system's not | |
| supplying the attackers like Sarri wants it to. Chelsea has | |
| Pedro (ex-Barca), Wilian, Higuain, Hazard all who can place the | |
| ball into the net readily but in Sarri's system, they're part of | |
| an organic system which opens up channels for them so that they | |
| pretty much can walk the ball into the net when it works | |
| perfectly. | |
| [quote]Sarri-ball also seems a bit too predictable. Messi, as | |
| you point out, can be unpredictable. Perhaps if I watched more | |
| match highlights when Chelsea lost I could get a better picture | |
| of what's going wrong. I suspect -- again I don't know -- that | |
| sometimes when Messi stalls like that, it serves more than one | |
| purpose. The one Chelsea seems to need to master perhaps is | |
| how to regain their balance when things go awry and positions | |
| get lost. I suspect that sometimes Messi is stalling to enable | |
| the other players to take up better positions. While the | |
| opponents are looking at him, his teammates are improving their | |
| positions, getting ready for the next play. I suspect that, but | |
| I don't know. If that is what is going on, Chelsea might | |
| improve by imitating the technique. The question may be if | |
| Hazard or Higuain can master that technique -- or if Sarri would | |
| approve of it. I don't know if Sarri is aware of the | |
| technique -- perhaps not since he complains about how Chelsea | |
| players get confused. I assume that every team has to deal | |
| with some confusion. Anytime a player steals the ball from the | |
| other team, there is an interval of time where everyone has to | |
| deal with the fact that possession of the ball has changed. | |
| Positions of players may need adjusting. Who knows?[/quote] | |
| I hear what you're saying here, Kerry. And you're right to a | |
| certain extent. The metronome in his system is Jorginho who he | |
| brought with him from Napoli. He's been "discovered" by the | |
| other clubs and so, overrun in midfield. Kante's been moved up | |
| to attacking instead of holding-midfielder, so until Sarri | |
| figures out his midfield and how to integrate the others | |
| (defence/forwards) with it, he's going to have problems. The | |
| thing is, with Sarri's system, it doesn't really matter too much | |
| if his system is predictable or uncovered by opposing teams - | |
| - you can't really do much about it when it's clicking | |
| perfectly. You end up chasing the ball the whole game. I watched | |
| that match where Napoli defeated Juventus. I think it was 1-0. | |
| Juventus couldn't score with all their high-paid players there. | |
| Check out the hilites, especially the second half. Juventus were | |
| worn out by them. It's extraordinary watching Napoli under Sarri | |
| when it's in form. It really is special, something different, | |
| akin to the way Barca can play at their highest level at times. | |
| It's all Napoli carving open Juventus in the bianconeri box: | |
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=zo9dnPcpEOY | |
| That losing the ball and trying to regain it is called getting | |
| back into shape or form while the match plays on. I've seen | |
| Barca make some horrible sequences of passes in matches. They | |
| weren't sharp at all in their last one. | |
| [quote]Why did he take the job at Chelsea then? [/quote] | |
| More $? Conte convinced him to have a go? A new challenge? | |
| [quote]Whether he keeps his job may depend on the Europa League | |
| matches coming up soon. I checked out the standings -- | |
| Chelsea's not doing too bad. If Sarri can do good enough to get | |
| them back in the UEFA Champions League, he may not get the | |
| ax.[/quote] | |
| Winning the Europa is the back-door entrance to the Champions | |
| League. You can end up in a Europa spot or less in your league | |
| but if you win the Europa, you get a spot in the Champions | |
| League (Group Stage). The next three matches might be his last. | |
| Sarri's said he hasn't had any contact with Abramovich. I hope | |
| he does well in those three because I think British club | |
| football needs improvement when you have a look at what nations | |
| have been winning the CL lately: | |
| 2017-18 | |
| 2016-17 | |
| 2015-16 | |
| 2014-15 | |
| 2013-14 | |
| 2012-13 | |
| 2011-12 | |
| 2010-11 | |
| 2009-10 | |
| 2008-09 | |
| 2007-08 | |
| 2006-07 | |
| 2005-06 | |
| 2004-05 | |
| 2003-04 | |
| 2002-03 | |
| 2001-02 | |
| para . . . . | |
| #Post#: 21493-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Chelsea | |
| By: Kerry Date: February 14, 2019, 8:35 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=paralambano link=topic=1384.msg21470#msg21470 | |
| date=1550010639] | |
| Winning the Europa is the back-door entrance to the Champions | |
| League. You can end up in a Europa spot or less in your league | |
| but if you win the Europa, you get a spot in the Champions | |
| League (Group Stage). The next three matches might be his last. | |
| Sarri's said he hasn't had any contact with Abramovich. | |
| [/quote]More later I hope, but for now let me repeat my old | |
| complaint that Abramovich is one of the problems. He appears to | |
| be letting Sarri dangle not knowing what to expect. He could | |
| at least call Sarri and ask him not to discuss their phone | |
| conversations. I'm sure Sarri wouldn't if asked not to. It's | |
| almost as if Abramovich enjoys dangling the proverbial sword of | |
| Damocles over people. I don't see it as emotionally supportive | |
| or healthy. It also sounds to me as if Sarri is trying to send | |
| Abramovich signals that he'd like more communication. Remember | |
| how Sarri was kept largely in the dark about Pulisic. | |
| I think it critical for owners to show they trust their managers | |
| by confiding certain things; and then the managers can show they | |
| are worthy of that trust by keeping secrets. I don't see that | |
| happening at Chelsea. The actual running of the club is left | |
| to two people Abramovich seems to trust from what I've read at | |
| the Daily Mail | |
| https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6704179/Who-Stamford-Bridge-… | |
| /> Marina Granovskaia first of all and Eugene Tenenbaum. Neithe | |
| r | |
| really come from a football background. That article says it | |
| was mostly her idea to hire Sarri; but some reports say they've | |
| clashed since then. | |
| https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1070336/Chelsea-transfer-news-Maurizio… | |
| CHELSEA manager Maurizio Sarri is �being made to look a bit of a | |
| fool� by director of football Marina Granovskaia. | |
| That is the opinion of football operations consultant Ian | |
| McGarry. | |
| Sarri joined in the summer and was informed that the club�s | |
| transfer activity runs through Granovskaia, who worked with | |
| owner Roman Abramovich on previous business ventures. | |
| The extent to which is Sarri is not involved in recruitment came | |
| to light last week following the signing of Christian Pulisic, | |
| whom the Italian manager had merely given his positive appraisal | |
| on a couple months prior. | |
| Cesc Fabregas� mooted transfer to Monaco is now bringing Sarri�s | |
| obliviousness to light once more, with the manager publicly | |
| acknowledging the player�s impending departure, only for the | |
| move to stall. | |
| - - - - | |
| �When she effectively contradicts the manager and says �this | |
| player can�t be sold until we find a replacement� - that seems a | |
| little odd. | |
| �And I�m not sure Sarri, who�s kind of no-nonsense in his | |
| approach to these things, might be best pleased at the way this | |
| has been handled because he�s being made to look a bit of a fool | |
| given his public comments and how things have transpired since.� | |
| McGarry then went on to question the structure of the club, and | |
| how much influence Granovskaia has over the manager. | |
| Another odd thing happened. We discussed the locker room scene; | |
| but it turns out that some staff people were locked out of that. | |
| https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1081443/Chelsea-Maurizio-Sarri-Granovs… | |
| Chelsea boss Sarri thinks backroom staff are LEAKING information | |
| to Granovskaia - Castles | |
| CHELSEA boss Maurizio Sarri thinks his backroom staff could be | |
| leaking information to Roman Abramovich and transfer guru Marina | |
| Granovskaia, according to Duncan Castles. | |
| Chelsea suffered a 4-0 capitulation at Bournemouth on Wednesday, | |
| which represented the club's heaviest defeat in 23 years. That | |
| has left Sarri, just six months into a three-year deal, now | |
| fighting for his job. | |
| He locked the players in for a heated post-mortem afterwards - | |
| but the backroom staff were excluded. | |
| Duncan Castles told the Transfer Window podcast: �The most | |
| telling thing that happened from the reports at Bournemouth is | |
| after the midweek game, for me, was that Sarri shut his entire | |
| backroom staff out of the dressing down he gave to the players. | |
| �Now why would you do that as a manager? I�ve not heard of that | |
| happening before at a club. | |
| �I�ve heard of individuals being excluded from particular | |
| meetings because the manager didn�t trust him, but I�ve not | |
| heard of the entire backroom staff being shutout and that | |
| suggests to me that Sarri doesn�t trust his backroom staff. | |
| �He thinks that they, or a large number of them, are a source of | |
| leaks, not necessarily to the press but maybe to the owner and | |
| to Marina Granovskaia. | |
| �If he�s isolated himself to the point where he doesn�t even | |
| trust a percentage of his backroom staff and doesn�t trust them | |
| to the extent that he shuts them out of a meeting like that then | |
| not only has he got a lot of the players against him, he | |
| probably doesn�t have many of the people who are supposed to be | |
| assisting him in great support of him. | |
| �I�ve heard there is definitely an element of distrust there but | |
| I think if you�re Maurizio Sarri and you were examining the | |
| situation, you�d be thinking who�s my assistant manager, who was | |
| he appointed by and is he the guy who the club are likely to | |
| turn to? | |
| I think club management and Abramovich are dysfunctional, and | |
| Sarri has reacted and also gone dysfunctional. If that story | |
| is true, who could succeed there for long? | |
| Granovskaia's main emphasis seems to be on the financial angle | |
| of it all. While money has to be a consideration, some people | |
| think she's made some unfortunate decisions. | |
| https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-dealmaker-marina-granovskaia-… | |
| Sure, Chelsea have won the title twice in the past four seasons, | |
| but they have also failed to qualify for the Champions League | |
| twice in the last three. | |
| It is one of the reasons why key duo Thibaut Courtois and Eden | |
| Hazard are looking to leave west London. As Granovskaia is in | |
| charge of negotiations, why were the Belgium internationals not | |
| tied down to new long-term deals long ago? | |
| Talks first began in 2017 and, yet, here we are, two of | |
| Chelsea�s best players with 12 months and two years left on | |
| their contracts respectively. By haggling over the terms, | |
| Chelsea stand to lose a lot more. | |
| Yes, why weren't they resigned? | |
| Courtois looks certain to join Real Madrid for just �35.5m as | |
| the Blues cannot afford to let him leave on a free. But that is | |
| an absolute bargain. | |
| In 2015, Granovskaia told Real that the keeper was worth �73m. | |
| Since then, he has won another Premier League title, an FA Cup | |
| and helped Belgium finish third in the World Cup while winning | |
| the Golden Glove award for being the tournament�s best | |
| goalkeeper. At 26, his best years are to come and yet he is | |
| being sold for less than half of what he was valued three | |
| seasons before. | |
| Granovskaia has worked wonders to bring Chelsea�s net spend down | |
| over the past four years, so much so it has been lower than that | |
| of Everton and Crystal Palace. But some transfer dealings have | |
| been botched, like that of John Stones in 2015 and Romelu Lukaku | |
| last year. Some of the new arrivals have been overpriced and, | |
| frankly, not good enough. | |
| Beating Manchester City to Jorginho was a step in the right | |
| direction, but the club cannot afford for it to be a one-off. | |
| The problem is, the person who can provide all the reassurances | |
| on that score remains in the shadows. | |
| I find it amazing that Chelsea's net spend was lower than that | |
| of Everton and Crystal Palace. Okay, so they signed Pulisic. Is | |
| that enough? | |
| Abramovich is starting to remind me of President Trump who | |
| seems to enjoy chaos in the people around him. | |
| #Post#: 21494-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Chelsea | |
| By: Kerry Date: February 15, 2019, 6:07 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| The highlights of the match with Malmo surprised me. I thought | |
| Malmo played dirty. I see from the stats they did with 19 | |
| fouls to Chelsea's 9. Huguain and Hazard sat this one out, | |
| and Chelsea won anyway. I wonder if Sarri thought it best not | |
| to risk having them injured? | |
| Barkley had a nice goal; and then Willian (#22) gave a nice | |
| assist to Giroud who was well placed to make the goal. Willian | |
| seemed in better form than in the disastrous match. Some of | |
| the match was chaotic; but the stats on passes favored Chelsea | |
| strongly. They completed 741 out of 784 passes while Malmo | |
| completed 265 out of 321. That means Malmo lost possession 56 | |
| times (17.4%) to Chelsea's 43 (5.5%). Needless to say Chelsea | |
| had possession most of the match. | |
| But what a confusing match since the Blues wore yellow. It | |
| disoriented me at first. | |
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7BPbNaQeI0 | |
| Hazard was at the match and got a few minutes of play in. He | |
| still made a little news. | |
| https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/8431685/chelsea-transfer-news-live-haza… | |
| EDEN Hazard has been in and out of newspaper headlines for a | |
| while now, with constant rumours of a possible summer move to | |
| Real Madrid. | |
| Yet, the Belgian was getting a little too much love on | |
| Valentine's Day from the fans in Sweden, after having to | |
| wrestled off a pitch invader during Chelsea's win over Malmo. | |
| CHELSEA earned a 2-1 win over Malmo with Eden Hazard getting | |
| just 19 minutes under his belt as Maurizio Sarri gave some of | |
| his fringe players a go. | |
| And Blues fans could soon be seeing even less of the Belgian as | |
| a friend revealed Hazard has wanted to quit the club �since the | |
| summer�. | |
| #Post#: 21496-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Chelsea | |
| By: paralambano Date: February 15, 2019, 8:32 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Kerry - | |
| [quote]The highlights of the match with Malmo surprised me. I | |
| thought Malmo played dirty. I see from the stats they did with | |
| 19 fouls to Chelsea's 9. Huguain and Hazard sat this one out, | |
| and Chelsea won anyway. I wonder if Sarri thought it best not | |
| to risk having them injured? [/quote] | |
| No doubt he's saving them for upcoming matches. | |
| Malmo. Big Swedes. | |
| [quote]Barkley had a nice goal; and then Willian (#22) gave a | |
| nice assist to Giroud who was well placed to make the goal. | |
| Willian seemed in better form than in the disastrous match. | |
| Some of the match was chaotic; but the stats on passes favored | |
| Chelsea strongly. They completed 741 out of 784 passes while | |
| Malmo completed 265 out of 321. That means Malmo lost | |
| possession 56 times (17.4%) to Chelsea's 43 (5.5%). Needless | |
| to say Chelsea had possession most of the match. [/quote] | |
| Ya, it's Chelsea's style to keep the ball even without | |
| Sarriball. The stats show us that it's reasonable to say that | |
| Malmo were frustrated chasing the ball and out came the | |
| machetes. | |
| [quote]But what a confusing match since the Blues wore yellow. | |
| It disoriented me at first. [/quote] | |
| One of several away kits for the season. | |
| [quote]More later I hope, but for now let me repeat my old | |
| complaint that Abramovich is one of the problems. He appears to | |
| be letting Sarri dangle not knowing what to expect. He could | |
| at least call Sarri and ask him not to discuss their phone | |
| conversations. I'm sure Sarri wouldn't if asked not to. It's | |
| almost as if Abramovich enjoys dangling the proverbial sword of | |
| Damocles over people. I don't see it as emotionally supportive | |
| or healthy. It also sounds to me as if Sarri is trying to send | |
| Abramovich signals that he'd like more communication. Remember | |
| how Sarri was kept largely in the dark about Pulisic.[/quote] | |
| It doesn't help that there were rumours that Abramovich wanted | |
| to sell the club. Perhaps Abramovich is taking a laissez-faire | |
| approach with Sarri and letting the string play out. In any | |
| case, he could be hearing from the Board at least. If I were in | |
| his shoes, I wouldn't be looking for confirmation from anyone. | |
| I'd just plow on :). | |
| [quote]I think it critical for owners to show they trust their | |
| managers by confiding certain things; and then the managers can | |
| show they are worthy of that trust by keeping secrets. I don't | |
| see that happening at Chelsea. The actual running of the club | |
| is left to two people Abramovich seems to trust from what I've | |
| read at the Daily Mail: Marina Granovskaia first of all and | |
| Eugene Tenenbaum. Neither really come from a football | |
| background. That article says it was mostly her idea to hire | |
| Sarri; but some reports say they've clashed since then.[/quote] | |
| Sarri's 57, not 35. He's not about to go running after anyone. | |
| [quote]Duncan Castles told the Transfer Window podcast: �The | |
| most telling thing that happened from the reports at Bournemouth | |
| is after the midweek game, for me, was that Sarri shut his | |
| entire backroom staff out of the dressing down he gave to the | |
| players. | |
| �Now why would you do that as a manager? I�ve not heard of that | |
| happening before at a club. | |
| �I�ve heard of individuals being excluded from particular | |
| meetings because the manager didn�t trust him, but I�ve not | |
| heard of the entire backroom staff being shutout and that | |
| suggests to me that Sarri doesn�t trust his backroom staff. | |
| I think club management and Abramovich are dysfunctional, and | |
| Sarri has reacted and also gone dysfunctional. If that story | |
| is true, who could succeed there for long? | |
| Granovskaia's main emphasis seems to be on the financial angle | |
| of it all. While money has to be a consideration, some people | |
| think she's made some unfortunate decisions. | |
| https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-dealmaker-marina-granovskaia-… | |
| He's been hired to coach players, not staff. They're not on the | |
| pitch - - his players are. | |
| [quote]Sure, Chelsea have won the title twice in the past four | |
| seasons, but they have also failed to qualify for the Champions | |
| League twice in the last three. | |
| It is one of the reasons why key duo Thibaut Courtois and Eden | |
| Hazard are looking to leave west London. As Granovskaia is in | |
| charge of negotiations, why were the Belgium internationals not | |
| tied down to new long-term deals long ago? | |
| Talks first began in 2017 and, yet, here we are, two of | |
| Chelsea�s best players with 12 months and two years left on | |
| their contracts respectively. By haggling over the terms, | |
| Chelsea stand to lose a lot more. | |
| Yes, why weren't they resigned? [/quote] | |
| Courtois wanted a Real move because his family is in Madrid and | |
| he had a chance to play for successive Champions League winners. | |
| Hazard has said that his dream is to play in Spain so it doesn't | |
| appear that he wants to leave Chelsea for anywhere else. | |
| [quote]I find it amazing that Chelsea's net spend was lower than | |
| that of Everton and Crystal Palace. Okay, so they signed | |
| Pulisic. Is that enough?[/quote] | |
| Well, they did get Higuain rather cheaply compared to what Juve | |
| paid for him. Is it enough? Probably not for Sarriball. | |
| [quote]Abramovich is starting to remind me of President Trump | |
| who seems to enjoy chaos in the people around him. [/quote] | |
| I think it's very speculative to say that Abramovich enjoys | |
| chaos in those around him. Rather, I think that he enjoys | |
| success. I think that he's a risk-taker as shown by his hiring | |
| of Sarri and his continuing to buy real-estate in London. If he | |
| had enjoyed chaos, he'd have kept on Mourinho and Conte. | |
| para . . . . | |
| #Post#: 21498-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Chelsea | |
| By: Kerry Date: February 16, 2019, 7:43 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=paralambano link=topic=1384.msg21496#msg21496 | |
| date=1550241175] | |
| Kerry - | |
| No doubt he's saving them for upcoming matches. | |
| Malmo. Big Swedes. | |
| Ya, it's Chelsea's style to keep the ball even without | |
| Sarriball. The stats show us that it's reasonable to say that | |
| Malmo were frustrated chasing the ball and out came the | |
| machetes.[/quote]Their coach should reflect on their number of | |
| unsuccessful passes and work on that instead of letting his | |
| players take out their frustrations by fouling. Surely, I can | |
| see Malmo getting frustrated when Chelsea was ahead and kept | |
| possession most of the time; but there is something they could | |
| do about that -- like practicing on passing. When they did have | |
| possession, they often lost it with unsuccessful passing. | |
| [quote]One of several away kits for the season.[/quote]Ha, it | |
| shouldn't be allowed if they're going to call themselves the | |
| Blues. 8) | |
| [quote]It doesn't help that there were rumours that Abramovich | |
| wanted to sell the club. Perhaps Abramovich is taking a | |
| laissez-faire approach with Sarri and letting the string play | |
| out. In any case, he could be hearing from the Board at least. | |
| [/quote]My guess is Abramovich often does let the board handle | |
| most things. If he's making money, who cares? | |
| [quote]If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't be looking for | |
| confirmation from anyone. I'd just plow on :).[/quote]That | |
| seems to be what he's doing for the most part. | |
| [quote]Sarri's 57, not 35. He's not about to go running after | |
| anyone. | |
| He's been hired to coach players, not staff. They're not on the | |
| pitch - - his players are.[/quote]But why make sure they | |
| weren't in the dressing room? | |
| [quote]Courtois wanted a Real move because his family is in | |
| Madrid and he had a chance to play for successive Champions | |
| League winners. Hazard has said that his dream is to play in | |
| Spain so it doesn't appear that he wants to leave Chelsea for | |
| anywhere else. | |
| Well, they did get Higuain rather cheaply compared to what Juve | |
| paid for him. Is it enough? Probably not for Sarriball. | |
| I think it's very speculative to say that Abramovich enjoys | |
| chaos in those around him. Rather, I think that he enjoys | |
| success. I think that he's a risk-taker as shown by his hiring | |
| of Sarri and his continuing to buy real-estate in London. If he | |
| had enjoyed chaos, he'd have kept on Mourinho and Conte. | |
| [/quote]I would say the problems with Mourinho and Conte were | |
| likely the result of chaos and the ensuing stress which I hold | |
| Abramovich and his "insiders" on the board help create. Don't | |
| forget that Mourinho left Chelsea "by mutual consent." | |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos�_Mourinho#2007�08_season | |
| In the first match of the 2007�08 season, Chelsea beat | |
| Birmingham City 3�2 to set a new record of 64 consecutive home | |
| league matches without defeat. Despite surpassing the record set | |
| by Liverpool between 1978 and 1981,] the start to the 2007�08 | |
| Chelsea season was less successful as previous starts. The team | |
| lost at Aston Villa and followed this with a goalless draw at | |
| home to Blackburn Rovers. Their opening game in the UEFA | |
| Champions League saw them only manage a 1�1 home draw against | |
| the Norwegian team Rosenborg BK in front of only 24,973 (an | |
| almost half-empty stadium) which included an unimpressed owner | |
| Roman Abramovich. | |
| Mourinho unexpectedly left Chelsea on 20 September 2007 "by | |
| mutual consent", although there had been a series of | |
| disagreements with owner Abramovich. The Chelsea board held an | |
| emergency meeting and decided it was time to part with their | |
| manager. Mourinho left as the most successful manager in | |
| Chelsea's history, having won six trophies for the club in three | |
| years. He was also undefeated in all home league games. Avram | |
| Grant succeeded Mourinho as Chelsea manager but failed to win | |
| any trophies in his year in charge and would be sacked at the | |
| end of the 2007�08 season. Grant's squad managed to reach the | |
| final of the Champions League (something Mourinho failed to | |
| achieve in his three years at Chelsea), reach the final of the | |
| League Cup and maintained the unbeaten home streak at Stamford | |
| Bridge. Grant's Chelsea also finished second in the Premier | |
| League. | |
| I don't know the details of those disagreements; but I think I'd | |
| side with Mourinho since his record as a manager is, well, | |
| spectacular. If an owner wants a winning team and hires a | |
| winning manager, do whatever the manager advises. | |
| And before that, Mourinho had to take on other people who | |
| disagreed with him. | |
| The 2006�07 season saw growing media speculation that Mourinho | |
| would leave the club at the season's conclusion, due to alleged | |
| poor relations with owner Roman Abramovich and a power struggle | |
| with sporting director Frank Arnesen and Abramovich advisor Piet | |
| de Visser. Mourinho later cleared doubts regarding his future at | |
| Stamford Bridge, stating that there would only be two ways for | |
| him to leave Chelsea: if Chelsea were not to offer him a new | |
| contract in June 2010, and if Chelsea were to sack him. | |
| When you see power struggles in any organization, it means the | |
| person at the top is permitting it. The structure of authority | |
| is not laid out in a way that everyone knows who's in charge of | |
| what. There are people who believe allowing chaos in the ranks | |
| below them weakens anyone who otherwise rise through the ranks | |
| and replace them. They keep the people under them fighting each | |
| other. | |
| I also hold Conte in high regard. I don't think he should have | |
| been fired the way he was. There may be details I don't know | |
| about. For example, did Conte get the players he wanted, or was | |
| the board at Chelsea unwilling to pay up? Let me repeat the | |
| quote: | |
| Granovskaia has worked wonders to bring Chelsea�s net spend down | |
| over the past four years, so much so it has been lower than that | |
| of Everton and Crystal Palace. But some transfer dealings have | |
| been botched, like that of John Stones in 2015 and Romelu Lukaku | |
| last year. Some of the new arrivals have been overpriced and, | |
| frankly, not good enough. | |
| What those things together suggest to me is that Abramovich and | |
| the board expected Conte to win and win and win without their | |
| spending money on acquiring players. | |
| Ha, ha, so after they fired Conte, they realized they were wrong | |
| and now they're willing to spend some money. Wouldn't it have | |
| been better to have spent more when Conte was there? That's | |
| one possible factor. I suspect there may have been other | |
| sources of friction, and I can't imagine Conte being the major | |
| source of it. He's a very team-oriented person. | |
| #Post#: 21500-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Chelsea | |
| By: paralambano Date: February 16, 2019, 9:17 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Kerry - | |
| [quote]Their coach should reflect on their number of | |
| unsuccessful passes and work on that instead of letting his | |
| players take out their frustrations by fouling. Surely, I can | |
| see Malmo getting frustrated when Chelsea was ahead and kept | |
| possession most of the time; but there is something they could | |
| do about that -- like practicing on passing. When they did have | |
| possession, they often lost it with unsuccessful | |
| passing.[/quote] | |
| True. Their coach should teach them how to remain cool when the | |
| team is being dominated. | |
| [quote]My guess is Abramovich often does let the board handle | |
| most things. If he's making money, who cares? [/quote] | |
| You know, neither of us can really speak for him but I'm | |
| guessing that in a sense you could be correct in that he has | |
| moneyed interests outside of soccer since one doesn't really | |
| make a lot of money by soccer relatively speaking. I'm thinking | |
| that he loves the sport and has the means to perhaps deliver the | |
| type of football that he likes to see. I'm beginning to think | |
| that Abramovich not only wants European victory, he wants it | |
| with a certain flair played. He fired Roberto Di Matteo in 2013 | |
| after Di Matteo had won the Champions League and FA Cup for him | |
| in 2012. Sure, Di Matteo had a poor start the following season | |
| and had been appointed as interim coach and that seemed to be | |
| why he was let go but I think perhaps that Abramovich might have | |
| been looking for something more. He's reportedly a great admirer | |
| of Pep Guardiola. | |
| [quote]But why make sure they weren't in the dressing | |
| room?[/quote] | |
| Because he wanted a private meeting with his players there. | |
| [quote]In the first match of the 2007�08 season, Chelsea beat | |
| Birmingham City 3�2 to set a new record of 64 consecutive home | |
| league matches without defeat. Despite surpassing the record set | |
| by Liverpool between 1978 and 1981,] the start to the 2007�08 | |
| Chelsea season was less successful as previous starts. The team | |
| lost at Aston Villa and followed this with a goalless draw at | |
| home to Blackburn Rovers. Their opening game in the UEFA | |
| Champions League saw them only manage a 1�1 home draw against | |
| the Norwegian team Rosenborg BK in front of only 24,973 (an | |
| almost half-empty stadium) which included an unimpressed owner | |
| Roman Abramovich. | |
| Mourinho unexpectedly left Chelsea on 20 September 2007 "by | |
| mutual consent", although there had been a series of | |
| disagreements with owner Abramovich. The Chelsea board held an | |
| emergency meeting and decided it was time to part with their | |
| manager. Mourinho left as the most successful manager in | |
| Chelsea's history, having won six trophies for the club in three | |
| years. He was also undefeated in all home league games. Avram | |
| Grant succeeded Mourinho as Chelsea manager but failed to win | |
| any trophies in his year in charge and would be sacked at the | |
| end of the 2007�08 season. Grant's squad managed to reach the | |
| final of the Champions League (something Mourinho failed to | |
| achieve in his three years at Chelsea), reach the final of the | |
| League Cup and maintained the unbeaten home streak at Stamford | |
| Bridge. Grant's Chelsea also finished second in the Premier | |
| League. | |
| The 2006�07 season saw growing media speculation that Mourinho | |
| would leave the club at the season's conclusion, due to alleged | |
| poor relations with owner Roman Abramovich and a power struggle | |
| with sporting director Frank Arnesen and Abramovich advisor Piet | |
| de Visser. Mourinho later cleared doubts regarding his future at | |
| Stamford Bridge, stating that there would only be two ways for | |
| him to leave Chelsea: if Chelsea were not to offer him a new | |
| contract in June 2010, and if Chelsea were to sack him. | |
| I don't know the details of those disagreements; but I think I'd | |
| side with Mourinho since his record as a manager is, well, | |
| spectacular. If an owner wants a winning team and hires a | |
| winning manager, do whatever the manager advises. | |
| And before that, Mourinho had to take on other people who | |
| disagreed with him. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Yes, Mourinho won all the domestic cups for Chelsea (7) but he | |
| failed to win the Champions League in that term. He had won it | |
| with Porto in Portugal in 2004 and he was hired to bring Chelsea | |
| their first European silverware. In addition, Mourinho was | |
| opposed to the appointment of Avram Grant as club director and | |
| the purchase of Ukrainian star Andriy Shevchenko. | |
| The Sarri situation appears to be quite different since Sarri | |
| has won nothing. What can this mean? | |
| This doesn't addressed his 2013-2015 tenure as Chelsea coach. | |
| Here are Mourinho's words in 2004: | |
| "I'm sorry I'm a bit arrogant, but we have a top manager," he | |
| said then. "I am the European champion. I think I am a special | |
| one." | |
| In a way, he reminds me of Trump with his manner of | |
| divisiveness. | |
| [quote]When you see power struggles in any organization, it | |
| means the person at the top is permitting it. The structure of | |
| authority is not laid out in a way that everyone knows who's in | |
| charge of what. There are people who believe allowing chaos in | |
| the ranks below them weakens anyone who otherwise rise through | |
| the ranks and replace them. They keep the people under them | |
| fighting each other. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Mourinho now admits that he didn't leave by "mutual consent". He | |
| was sacked. Abramovich doesn't want chaos I believe. He wants | |
| the beautiful game and Europe. If he can't have the latter, | |
| he'll at least have the former. But he doesn't want a coach who | |
| is divisive as was Mourinho who was feuding with even members of | |
| his medical staff apparently. He was given a second chance by | |
| Abramovich in 2013 after his tenure at Real Madrid and won the | |
| EPL with Chelsea in 2015 but apparently, again his rather | |
| "arrogant" and caustic style led to his leaving. And so on at | |
| Manchester United FC. There appears to be a pattern there. | |
| [quote]I would say the problems with Mourinho and Conte were | |
| likely the result of chaos and the ensuing stress which I hold | |
| Abramovich and his "insiders" on the board help create. Don't | |
| forget that Mourinho left Chelsea "by mutual consent."[/quote] | |
| He was fired by his own admission. | |
| [quote]I also hold Conte in high regard. I don't think he | |
| should have been fired the way he was. There may be details I | |
| don't know about. For example, did Conte get the players he | |
| wanted, or was the board at Chelsea unwilling to pay up? Let me | |
| repeat the quote: | |
| Granovskaia has worked wonders to bring Chelsea�s net spend down | |
| over the past four years, so much so it has been lower than that | |
| of Everton and Crystal Palace. But some transfer dealings have | |
| been botched, like that of John Stones in 2015 and Romelu Lukaku | |
| last year. Some of the new arrivals have been overpriced and, | |
| frankly, not good enough. | |
| What those things together suggest to me is that Abramovich and | |
| the board expected Conte to win and win and win without their | |
| spending money on acquiring players. [/quote] | |
| I like Conte too but he had lost the locker room at Chelsea. He | |
| feuded with Diego Costa and David Luiz and the non-playing | |
| staff. His mood apparently grew negative. I don't know but I'm | |
| guessing he had trouble handling the pressure of leading this | |
| club. You see how excitable he could be on the sidelines. Now, | |
| Sarri appears to have some of these negatives but all-in-all | |
| might be a little calmer than Antonio and perhaps better suited | |
| to handling the great pressure he's under. You saw him in that | |
| last match v Malmo in the hilites, sitting there, studiously | |
| scribbling away apart from the technical area. Conte would be | |
| running back and forth in the technical area, shouting and | |
| flailing his arms at his players practically the entire match. | |
| Yes, Sarri appeared to be a sore loser by not shaking | |
| Guardiola's hand but he just abruptly left the dugout for the | |
| locker room at the end of the match without any discernible | |
| histrionics. | |
| [quote]What those things together suggest to me is that | |
| Abramovich and the board expected Conte to win and win and win | |
| without their spending money on acquiring players. [/quote] | |
| Conte already had the players for his kind of football. Chelsea | |
| often played beautiful one-touch football under him but he | |
| wasn't there to shake things up in a big way. | |
| [quote]Ha, ha, so after they fired Conte, they realized they | |
| were wrong and now they're willing to spend some money. | |
| Wouldn't it have been better to have spent more when Conte was | |
| there? That's one possible factor. I suspect there may have | |
| been other sources of friction, and I can't imagine Conte being | |
| the major source of it. He's a very team-oriented | |
| person.[/quote] | |
| Kerry, Conte appeared to be a wreck before he left. A dark cloud | |
| over him. He had lost the dressing room. It's all over then. You | |
| don't take out on the players you have your lack of influence in | |
| transfer dealings if that's the case. You do that with the boss. | |
| Perhaps things would have gone differently. Sarri was able to | |
| bring Jorginho with him and now has his star in Higuain by way | |
| of his tenure at Napoli. If Sarri lasts through to the summer, | |
| maybe more. If Sarri needs more, a different type of player, he | |
| should be discussing this with his boss. So far, I've heard | |
| next-to-nothing about Sarri complaining that he doesn't have the | |
| players he needs. His thing it appears is dealing with the | |
| "mentality" of the ones he has: | |
| �It�s not easy to play tomorrow after a 6-0 but we have to play | |
| and we have to play well. We want to win and react immediately. | |
| In my opinion the last game was not a problem of motivation. We | |
| were not able to react to the first difficulty during the match | |
| because, in the first four or five minutes, we�d actually | |
| started well. Then, after their first goal, we were not able to | |
| react. So the problem is different. But it�s always a mind | |
| problem, a mental problem, so we need to solve them.� (Maurizio | |
| Sarri) | |
| para . . . . | |
| #Post#: 21509-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Chelsea | |
| By: Kerry Date: February 16, 2019, 4:21 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=paralambano link=topic=1384.msg21500#msg21500 | |
| date=1550330229] | |
| You know, neither of us can really speak for him but I'm | |
| guessing that in a sense you could be correct in that he has | |
| moneyed interests outside of soccer since one doesn't really | |
| make a lot of money by soccer relatively speaking. I'm thinking | |
| that he loves the sport and has the means to perhaps deliver the | |
| type of football that he likes to see. [/quote]I read his | |
| wanting to own a team as vanity. I remember what you related | |
| about the reason he didn't want to buy Manchester United. He | |
| found the posh surroundings of affluent Chelsea more in line | |
| with the picture he had of himself. This is a man who is more | |
| concerned with appearances than reality. The way he spends his | |
| money also tells me he probably enjoys flaunting his wealth. | |
| [quote]I'm beginning to think that Abramovich not only wants | |
| European victory, he wants it with a certain flair played. He | |
| fired Roberto Di Matteo in 2013 after Di Matteo had won the | |
| Champions League and FA Cup for him in 2012. Sure, Di Matteo had | |
| a poor start the following season and had been appointed as | |
| interim coach and that seemed to be why he was let go but I | |
| think perhaps that Abramovich might have been looking for | |
| something more. He's reportedly a great admirer of Pep | |
| Guardiola.[/quote]There is such a long list of fired good | |
| managers, I can't believe they're the ones responsible. | |
| [quote]Because he wanted a private meeting with his players | |
| there.[/quote]Ha, ha, and why? Is he that concerned about what | |
| get leaked to the board or something? | |
| [quote]Yes, Mourinho won all the domestic cups for Chelsea (7) | |
| but he failed to win the Champions League in that term. He had | |
| won it with Porto in Portugal in 2004 and he was hired to bring | |
| Chelsea their first European silverware. In addition, Mourinho | |
| was opposed to the appointment of Avram Grant as club director | |
| and the purchase of Ukrainian star Andriy Shevchenko. | |
| [/quote]Oh yes, let's talk a bit about Grant. He's Jewish as is | |
| Abramovich. He was also a close friend. (I don't know if | |
| they're still friends.) Was Grant really that good at his | |
| job? Was he better than Mourinho? Yet somehow Mourinho got | |
| fired and Grant got his job! That reeks. | |
| I also have to wonder if Chelsea would have won the match in | |
| Moscow back in 2008 against Manchester United if Mourinho had | |
| been the manager. How embarrassing for Abramovich to have his | |
| team lose in his home city. Okay, okay, so Grant got Chelsea to | |
| the final in the Champions League. So what? I could argue the | |
| team knew what they were doing largely because of Mourinho. | |
| Almost anyone could have managed them and done fairly well. | |
| It suggests to me that Grant was plotting against Mourinho to | |
| try to get his job; and Abramovich allowed personal | |
| relationships to cloud his judgment. | |
| [quote]The Sarri situation appears to be quite different since | |
| Sarri has won nothing. What can this mean?[/quote] | |
| Sarri's record may not include a trophy, but it's still | |
| impressive. I would guess that Abramovich had difficulties | |
| finding someone on such short notice. He had probably been | |
| trying to line up a replacement for Conte before firing him; and | |
| who could he find? I'm not sure why Sarri got sacked, but he | |
| was available. Me? I wouldn't want to work for Abramovich even | |
| if I was available, not if I had another job. | |
| It was a smart move for Sarri in one way. Nobody is going to be | |
| surprised if and when he gets fired; and then he can get a | |
| better job. | |
| [quote]This doesn't addressed his 2013-2015 tenure as Chelsea | |
| coach. Here are Mourinho's words in 2004: | |
| "I'm sorry I'm a bit arrogant, but we have a top manager," he | |
| said then. "I am the European champion. I think I am a special | |
| one." | |
| In a way, he reminds me of Trump with his manner of | |
| divisiveness. [/quote]Maybe he was trying to be frank. Another | |
| way I read that he put that was, "Please don't call me arrogant. | |
| . . ." My impression is he realized he would never be "great" | |
| as a player, that his strengths lay elsewhere. | |
| [quote]Mourinho now admits that he didn't leave by "mutual | |
| consent". He was sacked. Abramovich doesn't want chaos I | |
| believe. He wants the beautiful game and Europe. If he can't | |
| have the latter, he'll at least have the former. [/quote] | |
| Why does he tolerate the chaos then? | |
| [quote]But he doesn't want a coach who is divisive as was | |
| Mourinho who was feuding with even members of his medical staff | |
| apparently. He was given a second chance by Abramovich in 2013 | |
| after his tenure at Real Madrid and won the EPL with Chelsea in | |
| 2015 but apparently, again his rather "arrogant" and caustic | |
| style led to his leaving. And so on at Manchester United FC. | |
| There appears to be a pattern there. | |
| He was fired by his own admission.[/quote]Perhaps he was under | |
| too much pressure from Abramovich or the board and that got | |
| transferred into feuding with medics, etc. | |
| [quote]I like Conte too but he had lost the locker room at | |
| Chelsea. He feuded with Diego Costa and David Luiz and the | |
| non-playing staff. His mood apparently grew negative. I don't | |
| know but I'm guessing he had trouble handling the pressure of | |
| leading this club. You see how excitable he could be on the | |
| sidelines. [/quote]I have a rather strong opinion about | |
| non-playing staff: If the manager doesn't like them, tell them | |
| to find jobs elsewhere. If clubs followed that rule, there | |
| would less friction between staff and managers. If staff knows | |
| they can get away with things that annoy the manager, they lack | |
| the incentive to work with him. And if someone on the board who | |
| dislikes the manager is buddies with a staff member, he may be | |
| provoking the manager on purpose to please the board member. | |
| It's asking for problems to have staff answering to the board | |
| and not to the manager. Chelsea's history seems full of this | |
| kind of conflict; and now Sarri resorted to locking them out of | |
| a meeting. | |
| [quote]Now, Sarri appears to have some of these negatives but | |
| all-in-all might be a little calmer than Antonio and perhaps | |
| better suited to handling the great pressure he's under. You saw | |
| him in that last match v Malmo in the hilites, sitting there, | |
| studiously scribbling away apart from the technical area. Conte | |
| would be running back and forth in the technical area, shouting | |
| and flailing his arms at his players practically the entire | |
| match. Yes, Sarri appeared to be a sore loser by not shaking | |
| Guardiola's hand but he just abruptly left the dugout for the | |
| locker room at the end of the match without any discernible | |
| histrionics. | |
| Conte already had the players for his kind of football. Chelsea | |
| often played beautiful one-touch football under him but he | |
| wasn't there to shake things up in a big way. | |
| Kerry, Conte appeared to be a wreck before he left. A dark cloud | |
| over him. He had lost the dressing room. It's all over then. You | |
| don't take out on the players you have your lack of influence in | |
| transfer dealings if that's the case. You do that with the boss. | |
| Perhaps things would have gone differently.[/quote] | |
| What if you can't talk it out with the boss? I think Conte | |
| might have been a calmer person if he had felt more in control | |
| of what was happening. I hope Sarri doesn't lose the dressing | |
| room completely; but he's taken a few steps in that direction, I | |
| put a lot of the blame on the board and on Abramovich. People | |
| are apt to get irrational when frustrated and they don't know | |
| what to do to solve the problems. | |
| Let's go back to when Grant was staff. Who had Abramovich's | |
| ear? I suspect Mourinho felt a little paranoid at times. Who | |
| has his ear now? Sarri doesn't. | |
| [quote]Sarri was able to bring Jorginho with him and now has his | |
| star in Higuain by way of his tenure at Napoli. If Sarri lasts | |
| through to the summer, maybe more. If Sarri needs more, a | |
| different type of player, he should be discussing this with his | |
| boss. [/quote]I think he discussed it with the board members. I | |
| don't know if he discussed it with Abramovich. He's gotten | |
| some people he asked for, but we also see that Abramovich kept | |
| him largely in the dark. | |
| [quote]So far, I've heard next-to-nothing about Sarri | |
| complaining that he doesn't have the players he needs. His thing | |
| it appears is dealing with the "mentality" of the ones he has: | |
| �It�s not easy to play tomorrow after a 6-0 but we have to play | |
| and we have to play well. We want to win and react immediately. | |
| In my opinion the last game was not a problem of motivation. We | |
| were not able to react to the first difficulty during the match | |
| because, in the first four or five minutes, we�d actually | |
| started well. Then, after their first goal, we were not able to | |
| react. So the problem is different. But it�s always a mind | |
| problem, a mental problem, so we need to solve them.� (Maurizio | |
| Sarri)[/quote]When I see a group of people crashing and burning | |
| the way Chelsea did after a very good run, I always suspect | |
| there's what Scientology calls a "chaos merchant" lurking | |
| somewhere, stirring up trouble. Scientology also talks about | |
| "roller-coastering" around a chaos merchant. If someone was too | |
| difficult to deal with 100% of the time, nobody would stay | |
| around them. So the chaos merchant is sometimes nice and | |
| pleasant, and he will be ever so accommodating. Chelsea's | |
| history under Abramovich is full of wild up and down swings. | |
| Managers come and go, so I can't think one of them is | |
| responsible, nor can I think they are all responsible. The | |
| constant in the history is Abramovich. And I see also what | |
| Scientology predicts: That most of the time, the chaos merchant | |
| isn't the person held accountable -- no, the people around him | |
| who got confused and made mistakes or who got frustrated and | |
| vented on the wrong people are sacked. | |
| When you see someone irrationally attacking others, odds are he | |
| may be associating with a chaos merchant; and he is afraid of | |
| attacking the real source of his woes, so he takes out his | |
| frustrations on people he thinks can't fight back. Mourinho was | |
| being irrational about the medic who went onto the pitch. She | |
| had been summoned. Mourinho wasn't thinking straight. That | |
| suggests to me he was in a situation he felt he couldn't fight | |
| against -- but he could get angry with a medic. | |
| ***************************************************** | |
| Next Page |