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#Post#: 98098--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: farmgirl Date: May 24, 2022, 7:03 pm
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I might be the only one who doesn't understand, but what is a
sock puppet?
I googled and by definition it sounds like if someone isn't
using their real name, that makes them a sock puppet. But you
all must mean something different than using a screen name, I'm
just not sure what.
#Post#: 98101--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: animaniactoo Date: May 24, 2022, 7:17 pm
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[quote author=farmgirl link=topic=1093.msg98098#msg98098
date=1653437024]
I might be the only one who doesn't understand, but what is a
sock puppet?
I googled and by definition it sounds like if someone isn't
using their real name, that makes them a sock puppet. But you
all must mean something different than using a screen name, I'm
just not sure what.
[/quote]
Traditionally, internet speak, a sock poppet is a second
identity in a forum or media space, that is then used to support
the first identity's views.
So ID1 says "I believe XYZ"
14 people argue with that... and then suddenly sock puppet
ID2 says "No, ID1 is totally right about this. This is a classic
example of blah blah blah" and so on.
Alternately a sock puppet may be used to claim views that the
person doesn't wish to have known as their own under ID1. Some
really invested people have been known to make multiple sock
puppets and have them all argue with each other. But mostly,
it's for the point of arguing with others, and generally keeping
the hands of ID1 "clean".
#Post#: 98157--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: offtopicalways Date: May 25, 2022, 8:55 am
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My only quibble is the use of doxxing here. Doxxing is serious,
with real life consequences, and in an entirely different
category than pointing out the possibility of a sock puppet.
#Post#: 98161--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: LabPartner Date: May 25, 2022, 9:14 am
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[quote author=offtopicalways link=topic=1093.msg98157#msg98157
date=1653486920]
My only quibble is the use of doxxing here. Doxxing is serious,
with real life consequences, and in an entirely different
category than pointing out the possibility of a sock puppet.
[/quote]
Absolutely. We've had people accidentally (or in PJ's case,
carelessly, which he did back when we could post on Hax) put
real personal information on the board. (It's usually a name on
a photo or something with an address.) Someone notices and makes
sure the poster knows, often enough within minutes. PJ was the
only one who didn't seem to care or try to change it.
#Post#: 98182--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: animaniactoo Date: May 25, 2022, 10:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=offtopicalways link=topic=1093.msg98157#msg98157
date=1653486920]
My only quibble is the use of doxxing here. Doxxing is serious,
with real life consequences, and in an entirely different
category than pointing out the possibility of a sock puppet.
[/quote]
I agree for the most part, but if the accounts don't overlap at
that point (even if there was some overlap at the point where
the 2nd account started), then I don't consider the sole
remaining account as a sock puppet. At that point, it is
identity revealing of someone who has chosen to speak as only
their new identity, divorced from their previous identity that
they are not claiming. I think that is far more serious than
simple "pointing out the possibility of a sock puppet" and used
the term doxxing as the closest thing because I couldn't find a
term that seemed to fit better for the damage caused to
someone's participation, on their terms (again, barring previous
banishment or close to banishment) in this community, and their
comfort with being here.
#Post#: 98742--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: Sahmtoo Date: May 27, 2022, 3:02 pm
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I didn't see the dust-up. I don't care if someone changes their
name. Sock puppets mainly bother me when they are used to be
manipulative, for example, a while back it seemed like someone
(or maybe a few people) were inventing characters and posting
imaginary life events on the Wapo board. Because they wanted
attention, these characters would have one crisis after another
and real people would worry about them. That was gross.
If the mods can see people's ip addresses or something and keep
that from happening, I would appreciate it.
I never blocked him on the old board, but I remember there was a
member who was changing his account practically every day for a
while to foil attempts of blocking him. I think that was lousy.
People should be allowed to decide not to see someone's posts if
they prefer that. So switching names is fine, within reason, but
there is such a thing as too much.
#Post#: 98752--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: NoLongerAubergine Date: May 27, 2022, 3:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't have much of an opinion on the name change issues and
think the mod recommendations are reasonable.
But I'd also like to add that in the most recent dust up, there
was a pile up that was more about personal insults, using the
Dumb icon at the person, etc. At least as I recall all these
several weeks later. So just a reminder that it's fair to
disagree, but ad hominem attacks are not the way to do that.
#Post#: 98763--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: animaniactoo Date: May 27, 2022, 4:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Sahmtoo link=topic=1093.msg98742#msg98742
date=1653681740]
I didn't see the dust-up. I don't care if someone changes their
name. Sock puppets mainly bother me when they are used to be
manipulative, for example, a while back it seemed like someone
(or maybe a few people) were inventing characters and posting
imaginary life events on the Wapo board. Because they wanted
attention, these characters would have one crisis after another
and real people would worry about them. That was gross.
If the mods can see people's ip addresses or something and keep
that from happening, I would appreciate it.
I never blocked him on the old board, but I remember there was a
member who was changing his account practically every day for a
while to foil attempts of blocking him. I think that was lousy.
People should be allowed to decide not to see someone's posts if
they prefer that. So switching names is fine, within reason, but
there is such a thing as too much.
[/quote]
I know the situation you're referring to and I agree that would
be an issue if someone was frequently changing their name. IIRC
someone had like 15 people on their block/ignore list and they
were all that person, new name after new name. So perhaps an
additional piece that says:
� Frequently changing usernames to the extent that it interferes
with the intent of the ignore function will be considered a
violation of forum rules.
Does that cover it?
#Post#: 98764--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: KathySky Date: May 27, 2022, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Proposed rules:
[quote]� Coming back under a new name is fine, but accounts
should not overlap. If they do overlap, penalties applied to one
will be applied to both, all the way through to banishment.
� It is fine to politely ask someone if they were previously X
poster, either publicly or privately. Politely means 1x not 5+
times if they are not giving an answer or someone doesn't
believe them.
� It is not fine to accuse someone of being someone else or
declare that they are, and that is a points worthy
offense.[/quote]
I missed the dust up, so don't know who it concerns or what
happened in it.
I think that each rule should be voted on separately.
My view is that 1) is fine, but I have reservations about 3).
I am thinking specifically about a poster who was banned on WaPo
for a particularly egregious antisemitic slur directed at a
poster. They came on this site under a different name and was
suspended shortly after they revealed again their nasty racial
views. They came back later, and posted inflammatory comments
again. Although I've been advised that they are close to being
banned again, I would find it hard to see them posting innocuous
things while being 99.9% sure of their true identity.
Yes, I know that there were some ugly scenes on Wapo where
someone had mistakenly identified a new poster as that person.
But in that case, the new poster had not actually posted
anything objectionable. The mistake simply arose from the name
that the new poster had chosen.
So, I'm not sure that I agree that everyone gets a fresh start
and is welcome here. One just doesn't come back from certain
things unless there is evidence of true contrition and change of
views.
Just need to point out also that if I had seen the recent dust
up, my comments might be different.
#Post#: 98772--------------------------------------------------
Re: The time has come to talk of many things. Of sock puppets an
d doxxing and the drama they bring.
By: animaniactoo Date: May 27, 2022, 4:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=KathySky link=topic=1093.msg98764#msg98764
date=1653687606]
Proposed rules:
[quote]� Coming back under a new name is fine, but accounts
should not overlap. If they do overlap, penalties applied to one
will be applied to both, all the way through to banishment.
� It is fine to politely ask someone if they were previously X
poster, either publicly or privately. Politely means 1x not 5+
times if they are not giving an answer or someone doesn't
believe them.
� It is not fine to accuse someone of being someone else or
declare that they are, and that is a points worthy
offense.[/quote]
I missed the dust up, so don't know who it concerns or what
happened in it.
I think that each rule should be voted on separately.
My view is that 1) is fine, but I have reservations about 3).
I am thinking specifically about a poster who was banned on WaPo
for a particularly egregious antisemitic slur directed at a
poster. They came on this site under a different name and was
suspended shortly after they revealed again their nasty racial
views. They came back later, and posted inflammatory comments
again. Although I've been advised that they are close to being
banned again, I would find it hard to see them posting innocuous
things while being 99.9% sure of their true identity.
Yes, I know that there were some ugly scenes on Wapo where
someone had mistakenly identified a new poster as that person.
But in that case, the new poster had not actually posted
anything objectionable. The mistake simply arose from the name
that the new poster had chosen.
So, I'm not sure that I agree that everyone gets a fresh start
and is welcome here. One just doesn't come back from certain
things unless there is evidence of true contrition and change of
views.
Just need to point out also that if I had seen the recent dust
up, my comments might be different.
[/quote]
There is still no proof that the poster that you are thinking of
is definitively the person here. Some people believe they are,
some don't. And that's all of the point. You can talk about it
with someone via PM. You can alert mods to suspicions. But the
proposal is that you cannot simply declare that they are or
accuse them of being so in an open post. You can ask. Politely.
They are not required to answer. Because you BELIEVE that they
are the same person. But that belief is neither fact nor
sufficient proof to act on.
And someone who hasn't had a true change of views is unlikely to
be able to keep that out of their posting. Which means that if
it crops up here, we address it through the steps of the
moderation policy, which is as clear and outlined as we can make
it, striving for a balance between allowing someone to have a
bad day while not allowing for consistent, repetitive violation
of the rules.
But ultimately - a desire to be able to openly state your
belief, is the same thing that will remove the ability for
people who have left of their own accord to rejoin and ease
their way in under a new name. And those posters do exist, I do
know that for sure, because at least 1 of them contacted me to
ask about whether it was okay to just start posting under a new
name or if they had to state their previous name. None of their
postings have been problematic at all since they've rejoined -
they weren't a problem before, so this is not a surprise. My
view is that I consider their positive contributions and the
potential damage done to their comfort in being here to be a
higher priority than the ability to state that someone is
someone who hasn't revealed that information themself. Mostly
because we have other avenues for dealing with posters who are
problematic.
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