Subj : WWIII
To   : BOB KLAHN
From : Lee Lofaso
Date : Sat Jul 05 2014 10:36 pm

Hello Bob,

[..]

AK>> It is not pro-Russian forces are fighting
AK>> in eastern Ukraine. It is the Russian people who always
AK>> lived there, in eastern and southern Ukraine, and they were
AK>> extremely insulted when pro-western rebels removed their
AK>> candidate (Yanukovich, who won democratic elections) from
AK>> power.

BK> Being insulted is not ground for shooting up the place, and
BK> killing people. It is not grounds for seizing power. Now, how
BK> many Russian people live there? And why are Russians living in
BK> Ukraine and claiming the right to decide who rules the country?

Who has. the right to decide who gets to stay and who must leave?
Palestinians claim Israelis stole their land.  And they are right.
Many Pales"tinians have been displaced, and forced to live in
refugee camps as "stateless" citizens.  The land belongs to the
original inhabitants.  And yet other peoples from far away were
allowed to settle and literally steal that land from the proper
owners.

Of course, we did much the same thing in regards to Native
Americans, forcing them to live on reservations which we had
so conveniently set aside for them.

Hell, we were so damned nice to Injuns that we denied them
the right to vote - until Bill Clinton took office.  And now
look at what they are doing to us.  Those same Injuns are
taking us to court in order to keep our oil companies from
fracking on the land that we gave them to live on!

AK>> Rebels in Kiev were minority, but they captured
AK>> power by force, violating all democratic institutions and
AK>> election results.

BK> By force? It seems most of the force was used against them.
BK> According to what I have seen, the constitution was rewritten
BK> after Yonukovych took power, not by a constitutional convention
BK> or such, but by the courts. The protestors started out demanding
BK> the previous constitution be reinstated.

BK> ----------------------------------------------------------------
BK> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25182830

Britons are masters of deceipt.  Notice the Brits know better
than to have a (written) constitution of their own ...

BK> But it was the deaths of at least 88 people, many of them
BK> protesters shot dead by uniformed snipers in 48 hours of
BK> bloodshed, that ultimately brought him down.
BK> ----------------------------------------------------------------

According to the CIA, Libyans are the most patriotic people
on Earth.  For decades, they looked upon their leader as being
the most honest and trustworthy man who ever lived.  Libyans
invited Americans to their country to live and work, being ever
so kind to have a separate page to stamp for a passport so
that nobody would ever know you had been there.  Yes, my friend,
Libyans loved Billy Beer, which is why Billy and Moammar got
along so great.  But I digress.

AK>> Putin is not Hiller, just because Russia is not a fascist
AK>> Germany.

AK>> Russia doesn't want to rule over the world and
AK>> topple those governments it doesn't like. It is somebody
AK>> else.

BK> Russia maybe not, Putin I'm not so sure of.

Adolf Hitler sported a funny mustache.
Vladimir Putin sports a James Bond look.

Adolf Hitler only had one ball.
Vladimir Putin has a pair of huge brass balls.

Adolf Hitler despised steak, being a vegetarian.
Vladimir Putin indulges on mountains of red meat.

BK>>> When Obama declared he was pulling our troops out of Afghanistan
BK>>> and Iraq the Republicans ranted and raved about how no one would

BK> ...

AK>> It easy to explain. When you conquer a country _by military
AK>> invasion_ you, as a rule, can find collaborators only among
AK>> bastards, traitors and thieves. So, it is no wonder when

BK> Afghanistan was the base for the 9-11 attack. Iraq was a war for
BK> oil. We should have been out of Afghanistan quickly, and never
BK> in Iraq. I was talking about the republican reaction to a screw
BK> up series of wars, vs doing nothing or something now.

Al Qaeda was The Base (al Qaeda translated into English is The Base).
Osama bin Laden took credit for the attacks of 9-11, but there is
much that remains a mystery.  For example, President Bush was warned
well ahead of time that terrorists were planning such a strike, yet
chose to nothing to prevent it.  Minister Louis Farrakhan claims
that all 19 terrorists were still alive and well in the Middle
East after the WTC Towers came crashing down.

Did the President know about an impending terrorist attack and
deliberately choose to do nothing, knowing no wartime President
has ever lost a bid for re-election?  Did al-Qaeda really do it,
or was it merely a claim that was unsupported and unsubstantiated
by Osama bin Laden in order to appear a hero to his followers?
Are the alleged hijackers still alive and well, or is Minister
Farrakhan full of bunk?

BK>>> No matter what the status of the Ukraine and it's government,
BK>>> Russia is clearly an outside invader. Failing to come to their aid
BK>>> would be a clear sign to Putin that the West really is too weak to
BK>>> stop him. Not too militarily weak, on that we outweigh them in
BK>>> spade, but too weak morally.

AK>> It is not correct. Ask people from Israel or the US what an
AK>> invasion looks like. So far you can't tell of Russian
AK>> "invasion". People must be very accurate in such things.

BK> Putin has backed off. However, it certainly appeared he wanted
BK> to cut the Ukraine up.

It was never Putin's intention to invade Ukraine.

BK>   http://tinyurl.com/lsgsoqd

BK>   washingtonpost
BK>   ousted-ukraine-president-warns-of-civil-war-criticizes-us-for-
BK>   aiding-current-government

BK>   Yanukovych last appeared in public Feb. 28, in a news
BK>   conference also in Rostov, when he asserted he was still the
BK>   legal president of Ukraine and that he was not calling upon
BK>   Russia to intervene militarily.

BK>   The next day, Russia's parliament authorized President Vladimir
BK>   Putin to send troops into Ukraine, and soon thereafter Russia
BK>   asserted that Yanukovych had requested the intervention the day
BK>   after he spoke to the press.

The US Congress authorized the use of force in regards to Iraq
so that President Bush could force Saddam Hussein to back down
- thus allowing UN inspectors to continue their work in Iraq.
How did that work out?  Instead of diplomacy, our fine President
chose WAR.  We were the aggressor.  Iraq did not attack the US.
We attacked Iraq.

Did Russia invade Crimea?  No.
Did Russia invade Ukraine?  No.

The people of Crimea made their own choice to join Russia.
Nobody forced them to do that.  A vote was held, and it was
really no contest.

BK> Ousted Ukraine president warns of civil war, criticizes U.S.
BK> for aiding current government

Today he is nobody, a has-been politician who has lost the
trust of his own people.  He may have a new place to stay in
Russia, but he will never be loved by Russians.  That is the
problem with traitors.  They are seen by everyone as having
no honor ...

BK> "The cities are being patrolled by masked gunmen," Yanukovych
BK> said in a statement to the press in the southern Russian city
BK> of Rostov-on-Don.

BK> Yanukovych, who read from a statement in Russian and did not
BK> take questions, accused the West and the United States of
BK> backing fascists in Ukraine - another regular allegation being
BK> made by Russian authorities.

There are a handful of right-wing fanatics in Ukraine, but
they are a very small minority and of no consequence.  Most
Ukrainian politicians are of stable mind and are not bent
on national suicide.

BK> On March 6, after gunmen took over the parliament building in
BK> the Crimean regional capital, Simferopol, a pro-Russian
BK> leadership was installed. Then the regional parliament voted
BK> behind closed doors for Crimea to leave Ukraine and join
BK> Russia, setting a referendum for Sunday to validate their
BK> decision.

The people of Crimea have spoken, and Russia obeyed.

--Lee

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