Subj : Online Communities
To   : August Abolins
From : Charles Pierson
Date : Mon Nov 09 2020 12:20 am

Hello, August Abolins.
On 11/9/20 2:42 AM you wrote:

AA> Hi Charles! Answering a msg of <08 Nov 20>, from you to me:
AA>>> those well supported systems with multiple lines. Hence, users
AA>>> gravited towards systems where they could get on right away..
CP>> I remember with AOL, it would cycle through local numbers until
CP>> it connected. The others I don't recall.
AA> The others had little to no busy signal issues. Even IBM had its
AA> own BBS. That was fun to connect to and get info about OS/2
AA> updates and post messages in the online community. From the
AA> latter, I learned about an OS/2 user group that would meet every
AA> month in downtown Montreal in one of the IBM buildings. They
AA> featured guest speakers (programmers, designers..), door prizes. I
AA> won an OS/2 Warp T-shirt one evening - that was cool.

That could be a difference in location.  At that time, Houston and Philadelphia, PA were playing ping pong with being the 4th and 5th largest cities in the US. Houston had a larger population than the State of Kansas.

I'm not sure where you are located, but I would guess Eastern Ontario, or now I suppose Quebec, since you mentioned Montreal.

Based on the populations of these areas,  I suspect more callers in the Houston area than in either of those, just based on density. The Houston metro area population is about 3/4 of the population of Quebec, and close to half of Ontario's.

But AOL had enough lines available that I never could not connect.



AA> But TODAY, that dial-n-wait process is obsolete.  I don't think
AA> the prospective public knows that BBSes are accessible via Telnet
AA> (with their exisiting internet service) and the waiting queue is
AA> practically non-existent.

True. But you have to explain Telnet.

CP>> I primarily logged on transferred QWK or BW packets and logged
CP>> off. A few systems, I would play a few door games. Primarily
CP>> league games.
AA> Same here. I wasn't too much into the games, but it was a nice
AA> diversion at times.

I liked checking them out.  Like I've said I'm a software geek.  I like seeing what's out there.

AA>>> To come back? Why would they do that, when they get pretty
AA>>> graphics and colours (html) and buttons to click on the screen?
AA>>> It's so much more fun.
CP>> True, you could see things that you couldn't on a BBS, but why is
CP>> it either/or? For the most part, with a few exceptions, you still
CP>> have far better quality discussions on Fido than elsewhere
CP>> online.
AA> The target audience is jappers like you and I.  I don't need the
AA> graphical distractions that online web interfaces provide.

Exactly.

CP>>>> Obviously I was wrong.
AA>>> :)
CP>>>> I tried newsgroups now and then. I didn't care for them. It
CP>>>> seemed a cheap imitation of echomail.
AA> On that, I concur.
CP>> Fidonet had a Message area for nearly any topic you could
CP>> imagine.
AA> Over time, the majority of active echos reduced to areas geared
AA> for sysop/bbs interests.

Because for the most part, that's what's still here.

So the issue there is get the other echos listed if they fell off, BBS's carrying them, and ensuring the various uplinks are linked correctly.

Much like is being done with the echos being linked into Telegram.

CP>> Now systems either can send packets as soon as there is new mail
CP>> or hourly, as they choose, so you can have back and forth in a
CP>> conversation several times a day.
AA> This is what today's Fidonet ought to leverage and promote for the
AA> user's advantage.

That's what I've been thinking.

AA>>> Sysops do there best with listings.. But, for the most part
AA>>> Fidonet (or any othernet for that matter) remains obscure to the
AA>>> average user out there.
CP>> Exactly. How many of those things would someone not part of the
CP>> BBS community even know exist?
AA> Word needs to be seeded outside the Fidonet realm.
CP>> Even with Facebook, I belong to a Group called FidoNet TREK Echo.
CP>> It was supposedly set up to mimic it's namesake. There are about
CP>> 175 members in the Group. Besides myself, I know 3 members that
CP>> were for certain part of Fidonet in the past.
AA> I hung out in the fido PHOTO group. Then, when internet came
AA> along, someone built a Facebook group and everyone went there.
AA> The FB solution was pretty good considering that echo was
AA> primarily about each other's photos. FB made it easy to share
AA> images. BUT... I noticed that the converstional content degraded
AA> to zero. The FB group maybe had a brief description (or none at
AA> all) for an initial photo, but the rest of the content was just
AA> the "thumbs-up" thing, or one-liners like "great photo". The group
AA> even experimented with scheduled audio chat events (think Zoom,
AA> but for audio-only). That was rather cool, except for me still on
AA> dialup at the time, it was a brutal experience. Group audio could
AA> get confusing.
CP>> ... people share articles related to various Star Trek related
CP>> shows, movies, events, actors. Occasionally, someone will post an
CP>> opinion on an episode. But there is no discussion to speak of. It
CP>> hardly reflects what the Echo it's named after was.
AA> Same result as PHOTO echo.
CP>> My point is that if you have something like that, wouldn't you
CP>> want to promote where it came from?
AA> That is a good point. A shout-out to a sister "disscussion" group
AA> on Fidonet could appeal to some of the FB TREK users too, like
AA> you.

Unfortunately, in this case, the former Fido folks I still am in contact with outside of Fido have little interest.

AA>>>>> Twitter..
CP>>>> I don't get the hashtags. I mean, I understand what the intent
CP>>>> was, but I don't get it..
AA>>> They are a way to categorize a message...
CP>> I know what hashtags are and their purpose. I don't get the need
CP>> for them.
AA> It is a way to attempt to build a community of likeminded people
AA> on a particular topic.  Case in point: #metoo  And look how that
AA> sky-rocketed into media fame.

It got media attention because famous people, or people used by famous people used it.  If not for the celebrity connection, it would have been relegated to a "trending now" type of report.


AA>>> The ZDnet article mentioned The Well. The internet presence for
AA>>> The Well looks amazing and well organized. It's basically the
AA>>> same thing as Fidonet, but webbased forums. Not sure if there is
AA>>> an offline option for messages. Its philosophy of real names,
AA>>> etc... reads very much like the Fidonet BBSses of old.
CP>> The Well is a commercial BBS, more or less.
AA> Was it always commercial? One of the history articles in WIRED
AA> didn't quite cover that aspect. But it did primarily focus on an
AA> LA community.  No mention of anything like echomail connecting
AA> people worldwide.

I believe so.

CP>> I wasn't clear enough, I guess. History is important. FidoNet
CP>> showed what a bunch of regular people are capable of. Linking
CP>> thousands or more people together worldwide talking about things.
CP>> Not governments, not corporations, not Universities. People. On
CP>> their own time, out of their own pockets.
AA> I sense a fine Fidonet article in the making!

I still owe an article to Fidogazette.

CP>> Different computer systems, it didn't matter. Different OSes, no
CP>> problem. We have this program in DOS, let's make it available for
CP>> people that use OS2 or Linux. Or vice versa. You have a C=64? No
CP>> problem, join in the fun. If I'm not mistaken, every model of
CP>> home computer there was could participate.
AA> Yes.. there was excitement to accomodate the caller/user.

There was a much wider selection of computers and operating systems.

CP>> Apathy fits a lot of it. But there is more than that. How many
CP>> BBS related programs are there that have versions for multiple
CP>> operating systems? What if those programmers thought, "I only use
CP>> X OS. I don't need to port it to Y."? Or release the code so
CP>> someone else can. That's exactly what this is here. Android is
CP>> simply a different OS. But there are negative reactions to the
CP>> idea.
AA> Age? I think the sysops/progammers of yesteryear are tired,
AA> satisfied to just dwell in nostalgia.

Not all of them. Otherwise you wouldn't see anything being updated. Look at MysticBBS, or Synchronet for examples.

CP>> It's the negativity. "The screen is too small" "The Keyboard is
CP>> too small" "It's too hard to read on it"
AA> Those are user's/sysop's comments. What is lacking is a
AA> programmer/visionary.

Look at your comment here.  If users and sysops are saying those things, how many programers are going to make the effort?

At this point, I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I will have to muddle through myself to get to an Alpha or Beta phase at least.

CP>> Ok, in your particular situation, any or all of these comments
CP>> might be true. But that doesn't make it universally true.
CP>> Millions of people use tablets and smartphones on a daily basis.
AA> Except for the tried and true genuine BBS interface experience,
AA> there is no real reason NOT to embrace supporting echomail on a
AA> smartphone/tablet. Some of the NNTP apps are pretty good. They
AA> just need cooperating sysops to provide the server-side for that -
AA> which there is.  JamNNTP goes a step further and tries to mimic
AA> the FROM:/TO: in the typical nntp field so that you can see both
AA> names in a conversation.

I'm not sure what you mean. Tried and True genuine BBS interface? Other than a lack of a good, reliable ANSI telnet, I can connect to BBSes on my phone. Obviously I can exchange messages through points and nntp.  I just think it can all be better. You can have the same experience, and use the newer technology.

CP>> My more current discussion in Asian Link. His idea works. It's
CP>> more programmer heavy than I'm looking for. But it's there, and
CP>> if it works for people, I'm in full support.
AA> Which discussion is that?  I think I missed it. Short-lived? Was
AA> it just a comment or two?

It was a short exchange just after the Telegram link was announced but not yet active.  Maurice wrote a BASH script he used in Termux to do mail exchange.

CP>> The general public aren't big programmers. But they can install
CP>> an app. They can type an address. They can fill out a form. So
CP>> the typical BBS related software, a decent Telnet that supports
CP>> ANSI graphics and BBS transfers for Mail Packets, seem a very
CP>> good thing to me.
AA> That is all good. Keep expressing it. If you could draw in someone
AA> who can explore your ideas futher, it could get traction.

My problem is my brain goes several times faster than I can explain. You see how long it takes sometimes to understand what I'm talking about.

I also make leaps in logic sometimes that make perfect sense to me, then spend days having to figure it out backward so I can understand the steps i mentally skipped to get there.

CP>> As far as the BBS on Android idea? It's definitely not for
CP>> everyone. But it's something that I see potential for.
AA> I'm reminded of the BBS-on-a-Stick project.

I'm guessing some sort of USB flash drive?

AA>>> Yes, Hotdoged seems to be a fine adaptation for Android devices.
AA>>> But is that the one where the code is not available?
CP>> The Fido provider portion of HotdogEd is based on jNode. I'm not
CP>> sure about the other portions.
AA> I see lots of tutorials and info on jNode.  Sounds good.

Other than the issues I have mentioned before, it us a decent program,


--
Best regards!
Posted using Hotdoged on Android
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Houston, TX (2:240/1120.976)