[email protected] <Ken>
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  27.Dec.1994
  > Well there are usually a few things about being a shaman that
  are also important > in being a minister that I don't know how
  much they're stressed in the training of > a minister. For
  example in healing someone the truly important thing is that the
  > person you're healing BELIEVE that you have the power to heal
  them. In most > forms of Christianity its the god that the
  person is to have faith in, not the person > who is actually
  doing the healing. I find that even people with a pretty good
  amount > of faith react better to belief in the power of someone
  they can see than in a huge > abstraction. This is why Doctor's
  get, overall, a lot more respect on a concrete > level than
  priests in our society. ( In other societies, non-western that
  is, usually > priests ARE the doctors) In other words we pray to
  GOD that the DOCTOR can > make us well. A shaman has to be both.
  The human mind is usually perfectly > capable of healing the
  human body. The human mind is also quite capable of > healing
  the human mind. It just has to be given a reason, ceremony,
  ritual, etc. > to believe that it can do so. Now graceful
  segway....
  Interesting... This would explain why so many folks find it
  easier to believe in Jesus, the human child of God, than in God
  himself. *From a young age, I've felt a close relationship with
  God - a mystical "man without a face", with hands that we cannot
  see or visualize, but can feel in many different ways. One of my
  big dilemna about becoming a Christian minister (and probably a
  large reason why I'm going into Unitarian Universalism for my
  church and my minister-ship) is telling people that Jesus is the
  only path to God. *As someone who believes in Jesus, that he was
  a wonderful man with wonderful ideas, with powers almost beyond
  comprehension, and *certainly* touched by the hands of the
  "great unknowable" more than most... I still cannot accept him
  as: 1) the only son of God 2) the only path to salvation
  (whether salvation means: * going to heaven after death *
  becoming a better person on this earh, which is my belief) 3)
  that he was physically raised by the dead by the hands of God. I
  can accept Jesus having the power within him (granted by
  something bigger than everything else) to raise Lazarus from the
  dead (after rotting and stinking the house for three days!).
  *But I cannot accept God intervening on a PHYSICAL basis. *For
  some reason, I need to believe that a human hand was the vehicle
  for the force behind the healing/etc. Graphic example:

* * * * What I can accept: * * * * * * *What I have trouble accepting:

* * * * Majorly higher power * * * * * * Majorly higher power * * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *| * * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *| * * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *| * * * * * *Inbetween dude * * * * * * * * * * Physical Healing * * * * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * Phsycal Healing

  Ack!
  > * This is one of the reasons that so many shamanic ceremonies
  are full of flash > and flair...remember the conscious mind is
  always a skeptic, but the > subconscious mind loves the
  ice-capades, and its the one that does the work :) > Well I
  guess I've ridden my hobby horse long enough now,sorry. > * * *
  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
  *Happy Hunting > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
  * * * * * * * * * * * *Samhain's Ghost
  I like a good show :-) *I was just a couple of steps away from
  going into the Anglican Church - the show and flair - the
  incense, the men/boys' choir, the ritual, the flashy glittering
  Bible, reflecting the prayers of all into heaven... But it
  seemed passive. *I want to be a minister in a QUESTIONING church
  - one that teaches everyone - kids and adults alike - to have
  strong faith but to never be afraid to challenge your own faith,
  or to be challenged. Thoughts? -- Kenneth Udut * * * * * * * * *
  * * * * * * * * * * * *[email protected] Listowner of
  [email protected] - discussion on the rights of kids/teens
  Usenet: alt.religion.shamanism Topic: Shamanism - described.
  [via:
  https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.shamanism/rgffR7h-Aa0/vE7KOtoFw9IJ
  ]

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