S D F - 1 Bulletin Board
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BBOARD POSTS TOPIC
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WEB [0005] Making WWW pages.
GOPHER [0003] Port 70 - before The Web
GENERAL [0038] Random Discussions, News and Thoughts
REQUESTS [0025] Software Package Install and Update Requests
SHARED [0004] Sharing SDF resources responsibly, users respecting users
HUMOR [0009] It's funny. Laugh.
HELPDESK [0032] Users Helping Users
BITCH [0010] a bitch board for airing the grievances of everyday life.
BSD [0007] BSD Discussions and Announcements
MUSIC [0005] % MUSIC does not exist. -- wtf
SPACE [0001] The meek will inherit the earth...
GAMES [0003] Games and Puzzles
ANONYMOUS [0017] Anonymous people talking about strange things, anonymously
UNIX [0014] UNIX stuff
ARPA [0014] Member Discussions, Projects and Fun
URBEX [0003] Urban Exploration
ANNOUNCE [0004] System Announcements and News
WINDOWS [0003] By Micro$oft
OBITS [0003] Obituaries
DSL [0001] DSL related stuff
UK [0001] Life in the dodgy islands
MOTD [0005] MOTD.ORG Web 29.01a in SDF style ;-)
DIALUP [0002] SDF's TENEX Dialup Service
GOD [0006] GOD does exist
WARMING [0003] we must save the earth from global warming!!! you must help
CODING [0007] Discussions about programming in various languages...
HARDWARE [0011] Fried Chips and Dip
DISCOVERY [0005] What did you discover you could do on SDF today?
JOBS [0002] employment related stuff
FORSALE [0001] SDF Marketplace buy/sell/trade
POLITICS [0001] Obama will win in 2008
MAC [0006] Macs, Mac OS X, & Apple Discussions
PANIC [0001] the usa is crashing! abandon ship!
ODDQUIRKS [0003] Your strange and odd quirks...
IPV6 [0000] IPv6 is coming. It's arrival is mandatory.
LOCAL [0002] Local bboard info
POLLS [0006] SDFers love polls
COOKING [0005] Food Overload
INVEST [0001] Stocks, Bonds, Savings, Mutual Funds and the like
BANKING [0002] questinos about banks
BOOKCLUB [0001] SDF Book Club
DOH [0001] your not so bright moments
CRYPTO [0001] Cryptography, codes and encryption
LINUX [0002] Why did the penguin cross the road?
MATH [0002] Math discussion.
MORSE [0002] morse code and ham radio operators
MUD [0001] exit
RELIGION [0003] Shalom Aleichem
TWENEX [0001] SDF user contributed software
VPN [0002] SDF VPN Use and Configuration Discussions
<GENERAL> Command: ARCHIVE
SDF BBOARD Archives
1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
2005 2006 2007 2008
Which year?
You are now in the 2007 archives.
<none> Command: SEARCH (KEYWORD) % Searching on avoyager TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: the conspiracy ...
DATE: 26-Mar-07 02:27:58
HOST: sverige
"a conspiracy to keep the truth in the dark"
That's well stated. Thank you.
As I heard it, the psychopaths spent far more money trying to nail Clintons
on "Whitewater" than they did on investigating the attack upon and collapse
of the World Trade Towers.
But then, the three year old bipartisan U.S. Commission on National
Security submitted its final report, "Roadmap for National Security:
Imperative for Change", to the White House on February 15, 2001. They threw
it into the trash immediately, and said that Cheney was the only authority
on such matters, and he'd come up with a proper plan.
But then, Dickie got sidetracked taking dictation from Enron and the energy
sector, coming up instead with an, um, "Energy Policy", while then National
Security Advisor Condi "mushroom cloud" Rice was fumbling over what to do
with the top-secret memo titled "Bin Laden Determined To Strike in U.S."
Yep. That's one helluva team there.
<911TRUTH.26-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: the bigger picture
DATE: 28-Mar-07 13:04:11
HOST: sverige
OK, all. One additional way to look at this situation is to acknowledge the
significant group of thoughtful researchers who aren't at the extreme of
saying George and Did did it; but who see clearly that those two
individuals, and their collective spheres of influence, FAILED in several
different opportunities to reduce the probability of the tragedy actually
taking place.
With or without conspiracy, there are a LOT of unanswered questions about
their behaviors since taking office, each of which shifted the odds against
us and in favor of the strike's success; and several situations which
indicate some foreknowledge of the plan, and no attempt to disrupt it.
In this picture, the guilty parties might be actively perpetrating the
"wild ass" theories in order to take people off the real track.
From what I've garnered, they were certainly negligent; and until some of
those key questions are answered, and key evidence released, they have a
significant probability of also being complicit.
That's pretty calm, rationa, and clear, eh?
<911TRUTH.28-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: the bigger picture
DATE: 28-Mar-07 13:04:11
HOST: sverige
OK, all. One additional way to look at this situation is to acknowledge the
significant group of thoughtful researchers who aren't at the extreme of
saying George and Did did it; but who see clearly that those two
individuals, and their collective spheres of influence, FAILED in several
different opportunities to reduce the probability of the tragedy actually
taking place.
With or without conspiracy, there are a LOT of unanswered questions about
their behaviors since taking office, each of which shifted the odds against
us and in favor of the strike's success; and several situations which
indicate some foreknowledge of the plan, and no attempt to disrupt it.
In this picture, the guilty parties might be actively perpetrating the
"wild ass" theories in order to take people off the real track.
From what I've garnered, they were certainly negligent; and until some of
those key questions are answered, and key evidence released, they have a
significant probability of also being complicit.
That's pretty calm, rationa, and clear, eh?
.......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: new thread (vpn) as requested
DATE: 18-Feb-07 03:13:57
HOST: sverige
In response to your request for experience with the new VPN server ....
I applied the MPPE patch to a Debian kernel and followed other instructions
at pptpclient.sourceforge.net but still haven't figured out how to put
together the connection (ppp), the interface (ifconfig), the routing
(route), and whatever else I may be missing.
Also, on a w2k system NAT'd in my local lan, I launched the native tunnel
option and got a connection but failed the authentication. I haven't found
the proper documentation yet to guide me toward any necessary firewall
config. But was quite easily able to get a NAT'd linux system on that lan
to make an OpenVPN connection.
Also, I have a pptp connection tool for my OS/2 system which provides the
gateway and firewall for the local lan, but it doesn't support any
encryption and I'm not about to try to find/install MPPE there as it's a
MS proprietary product, and MS doesn't make anything which doesn't
incorporate code specifically intended to break OS/2 systems.
Also, I installed a new FreeBSD 6.1 system for this and other purposes, but
it died during pkgsource installation due to insufficient inodes (plenty of
space available however); but that's a matter for a different discussion.
So, I don't find anything about this nearly as easy as SSH tunnels or
OpenVPN.
But I'll probably keep working at this anyway, because I like to help, and
because I'm genuinely curious.
By the way, why are we using pptp/mppe rather than openvpn/tls ?
<ARPA.18-Feb-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: new thread (vpn) as requested
DATE: 18-Feb-07 03:13:57
HOST: sverige
In response to your request for experience with the new VPN server ....
I applied the MPPE patch to a Debian kernel and followed other instructions
at pptpclient.sourceforge.net but still haven't figured out how to put
together the connection (ppp), the interface (ifconfig), the routing
(route), and whatever else I may be missing.
Also, on a w2k system NAT'd in my local lan, I launched the native tunnel
option and got a connection but failed the authentication. I haven't found
the proper documentation yet to guide me toward any necessary firewall
config. But was quite easily able to get a NAT'd linux system on that lan
to make an OpenVPN connection.
Also, I have a pptp connection tool for my OS/2 system which provides the
gateway and firewall for the local lan, but it doesn't support any
encryption and I'm not about to try to find/install MPPE there as it's a
MS proprietary product, and MS doesn't make anything which doesn't
incorporate code specifically intended to break OS/2 systems.
Also, I installed a new FreeBSD 6.1 system for this and other purposes, but
it died during pkgsource installation due to insufficient inodes (plenty of
space available however); but that's a matter for a different discussion.
So, I don't find anything about this nearly as easy as SSH tunnels or
OpenVPN.
But I'll probably keep working at this anyway, because I like to help, and
because I'm genuinely curious.
By the way, why are we using pptp/mppe rather than openvpn/tls ?
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Two things are clear
DATE: 19-Oct-06 21:08:02
HOST: sverige
1. If we had a different smj, we'd have a different SDF.
2. There is no other SDF.
Less clear to everybody, but true for me, is:
This SDF is way more better than just "fine".
<ARPA.19-Oct-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Two things are clear
DATE: 19-Oct-06 21:08:02
HOST: sverige
1. If we had a different smj, we'd have a different SDF.
2. There is no other SDF.
Less clear to everybody, but true for me, is:
This SDF is way more better than just "fine".
..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: the money
DATE: 20-May-07 13:28:21
HOST: sverige
Not that this is a bitch; but I wanted this thread tied to the "trouble
with reality" thread here, more than I could think of a more appropriate
board other than general.
The_Money .... in simplest terms ...
is either manufactured, or exchanged. It doesn't "grow" like trees and
flowers; that would be "manufactured".
SO, those who accumulate money, either manufacture it (directly or
indirectly), or take it from others one way or another (such as in exchange
for services rendered or products provided).
Any disagreements with this fundamental view?
<BITCH.20-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: the money
DATE: 20-May-07 13:28:21
HOST: sverige
Not that this is a bitch; but I wanted this thread tied to the "trouble
with reality" thread here, more than I could think of a more appropriate
board other than general.
The_Money .... in simplest terms ...
is either manufactured, or exchanged. It doesn't "grow" like trees and
flowers; that would be "manufactured".
SO, those who accumulate money, either manufacture it (directly or
indirectly), or take it from others one way or another (such as in exchange
for services rendered or products provided).
Any disagreements with this fundamental view?
.......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 03-Apr-07 21:49:33
HOST: sverige
now that the biases are aside, the press comes out pretty clean with this
one, an enjoyable read of the 20 yr. history of OS/2, still in play today.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38666
<GENERAL.03-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 03-Apr-07 21:49:33
HOST: sverige
now that the biases are aside, the press comes out pretty clean with this
one, an enjoyable read of the 20 yr. history of OS/2, still in play today.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38666
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: about that deity
DATE: 04-Nov-06 18:26:16
HOST: sverige
Your predecessors believed that the deities caused the rain to fall and the
sun to rise.
You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception
of your universe.
Some of your contemporarys believe that a deity can cause volcanoes,
tsunamis, and random acts of violence by humans.
You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception
of your universe.
Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity is now dutifully
attending to their prayers and supplications.
You have marvelled at their persistence in the face of overwhelming
evidence to the contrary, and somewhat scornfully wondered if they are
neglecting their personal responsibilities.
Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity will one day appear
upon their porch and lead them onto a bus bound for some eternal glory.
You have observed that these things have not happened, within your
perception of your universe.
And you have not seen a deity within your perception of your universe, ....
EXCEPT ... within nearly all those who have gone before you, and so many of
those who surround you.
You might blame this deity, or any belief in it, for the apparent fact that
everybody is wrong about this except you; or for its not making itself
better known by, or understood by, you.
But to do so would be to acknowledge it, and you reject this conundrum, or
become crazed and irrational, which you of all people CANNOT abide.
Yet you know that there is SOMETHING which leads us to discover that the
earth is not flat, that the sun neither rises nor shines, that
earthquakes do not have anger, or revenge;
that SOMETHING leads us to wonder about those things which we do not
understand, and to love certain things above others, even to the point of
sacrifice.
You KNOW that there is imagination, and inspiration, and you do NOT know
its origins, causes or purposes,
even within your perception of your universe,
as it exists now,
not formerly.
The deity, it turns out,
is not just poorly understood;
it is terribly MISunderstood.
Seriously folks. More folks have a botched understanding of it than have a
lack of understanding of it.
And that's pretty much all which separates it from us; is its perfection,
toward which we may strive or stumble along our way.
<GENERAL.04-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: about that deity
DATE: 04-Nov-06 18:26:16
HOST: sverige
Your predecessors believed that the deities caused the rain to fall and the
sun to rise.
You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception
of your universe.
Some of your contemporarys believe that a deity can cause volcanoes,
tsunamis, and random acts of violence by humans.
You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception
of your universe.
Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity is now dutifully
attending to their prayers and supplications.
You have marvelled at their persistence in the face of overwhelming
evidence to the contrary, and somewhat scornfully wondered if they are
neglecting their personal responsibilities.
Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity will one day appear
upon their porch and lead them onto a bus bound for some eternal glory.
You have observed that these things have not happened, within your
perception of your universe.
And you have not seen a deity within your perception of your universe, ....
EXCEPT ... within nearly all those who have gone before you, and so many of
those who surround you.
You might blame this deity, or any belief in it, for the apparent fact that
everybody is wrong about this except you; or for its not making itself
better known by, or understood by, you.
But to do so would be to acknowledge it, and you reject this conundrum, or
become crazed and irrational, which you of all people CANNOT abide.
Yet you know that there is SOMETHING which leads us to discover that the
earth is not flat, that the sun neither rises nor shines, that
earthquakes do not have anger, or revenge;
that SOMETHING leads us to wonder about those things which we do not
understand, and to love certain things above others, even to the point of
sacrifice.
You KNOW that there is imagination, and inspiration, and you do NOT know
its origins, causes or purposes,
even within your perception of your universe,
as it exists now,
not formerly.
The deity, it turns out,
is not just poorly understood;
it is terribly MISunderstood.
Seriously folks. More folks have a botched understanding of it than have a
lack of understanding of it.
And that's pretty much all which separates it from us; is its perfection,
toward which we may strive or stumble along our way.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Theology
DATE: 08-Aug-07 13:37:14
HOST: otaku
"You cannot be spiritually reborn without some knowledge of the new or
spiritual life, of the true things that you ought to believe and the good
things that you ought to do. You cannot learn these things on your own,
because on your own you can comprehend things only through your physical
senses. Your physical senses give you information about the material world
and yourself, not about heaven and God. Spiritual knowledge comes only from
revelation." --Emanuel Swedenborg
<GENERAL.08-Aug-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Theology
DATE: 08-Aug-07 13:37:14
HOST: otaku
"You cannot be spiritually reborn without some knowledge of the new or
spiritual life, of the true things that you ought to believe and the good
things that you ought to do. You cannot learn these things on your own,
because on your own you can comprehend things only through your physical
senses. Your physical senses give you information about the material world
and yourself, not about heaven and God. Spiritual knowledge comes only from
revelation." --Emanuel Swedenborg
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Registrars
DATE: 15-Dec-06 16:30:56
HOST: sverige
Which registrars are friendly to unix, linux, BSD, and other non-MS
systems?
I've enjoyed using GoDaddy for a lot of years now; and they may solve their
problem before I relocate, but for today, their new ajax based interface
requires IE7 according to the third level support super I just spoke with.
Most functions work with Mozilla 1.7.7 and Java 1.4 which kind of discounts
the notion that more is required, but setting up dns hosts does not.
I discover that IE7 requires Windows XP and I am never nohow going to load
that anyplace. I manage to keep w2kPro around for the kids, but that's as
far as I'm going down that path.
So, is there a more "socially responsible" registrar which you would like
to recommend?
<GENERAL.15-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Registrars
DATE: 15-Dec-06 16:30:56
HOST: sverige
Which registrars are friendly to unix, linux, BSD, and other non-MS
systems?
I've enjoyed using GoDaddy for a lot of years now; and they may solve their
problem before I relocate, but for today, their new ajax based interface
requires IE7 according to the third level support super I just spoke with.
Most functions work with Mozilla 1.7.7 and Java 1.4 which kind of discounts
the notion that more is required, but setting up dns hosts does not.
I discover that IE7 requires Windows XP and I am never nohow going to load
that anyplace. I manage to keep w2kPro around for the kids, but that's as
far as I'm going down that path.
So, is there a more "socially responsible" registrar which you would like
to recommend?
....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: email - nolisting foils bot-zombies
DATE: 03-Jul-07 22:37:30
HOST: sverige
Actually, I don't have current evidence that it does, but I do suggest it
as a defense during the next attack. The page describing nolisting has been
posted to bboard a couple times this year, and isn't hard to find in a
websearch.
What makes it superior to greylisting is that there is zero processing
overhead on the mailhost. Zombie, and other spam source connectionns aren't
even made to the mailhost.
It's the kind of thing which requires careful study and consideration
however before implementing; but so does greylisting and many other things.
It seems to me that a major bot-zombie "attack" would be a perfect time to
test and evaluate nolisting. Several major mailhost admins have reported
stupendous positive results (having taken into account careful testing for
the equivalent of "false positives").
From what we saw during the last run, it doesn't seem like it could hurt at
all, anyway.
<HELPDESK.03-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: email - nolisting foils bot-zombies
DATE: 03-Jul-07 22:37:30
HOST: sverige
Actually, I don't have current evidence that it does, but I do suggest it
as a defense during the next attack. The page describing nolisting has been
posted to bboard a couple times this year, and isn't hard to find in a
websearch.
What makes it superior to greylisting is that there is zero processing
overhead on the mailhost. Zombie, and other spam source connectionns aren't
even made to the mailhost.
It's the kind of thing which requires careful study and consideration
however before implementing; but so does greylisting and many other things.
It seems to me that a major bot-zombie "attack" would be a perfect time to
test and evaluate nolisting. Several major mailhost admins have reported
stupendous positive results (having taken into account careful testing for
the equivalent of "false positives").
From what we saw during the last run, it doesn't seem like it could hurt at
all, anyway.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Greylist or Nolist
DATE: 09-Feb-07 01:29:05
HOST: sverige
Here's a new concept of "nolisting" as an alternative to greylisting. I'm
not offering this as a recommendation at this time, but the idea is of
merit and well presented and well thought out; though not yet sufficiently
peer reviewed.
It makes the statement that "Any site that cannot cope with Nolisting is in
an indefensible position." which can be equally applied to greylisting.
It also makes this statement which I think will resonate favorably with
many SDFers:
"Implementation requires precision, coordination, strict discipline, and is
vulnerable to human error. If this is beyond the ability of you or your
staff, don't do it."
Here it is:
http://www.joreybump.com/code/howto/nolisting.html
<HELPDESK.09-Feb-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Greylist or Nolist
DATE: 09-Feb-07 01:29:05
HOST: sverige
Here's a new concept of "nolisting" as an alternative to greylisting. I'm
not offering this as a recommendation at this time, but the idea is of
merit and well presented and well thought out; though not yet sufficiently
peer reviewed.
It makes the statement that "Any site that cannot cope with Nolisting is in
an indefensible position." which can be equally applied to greylisting.
It also makes this statement which I think will resonate favorably with
many SDFers:
"Implementation requires precision, coordination, strict discipline, and is
vulnerable to human error. If this is beyond the ability of you or your
staff, don't do it."
Here it is:
http://www.joreybump.com/code/howto/nolisting.html
..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Deleted File Recovery
DATE: 18-Jul-07 02:24:22
HOST: sverige
The situation is an SD memory card used in a digital camera.
The misfortuen is the unfortunate erasure of photos on the card, using the
camera's delete function.
The goal is to recover the image files.
A USB connected external card reader is available.
The request here is for your experience, techniques, tips, or advices.
Thank you all very much in advance :)
avo
---
<HELPDESK.18-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Deleted File Recovery
DATE: 18-Jul-07 02:24:22
HOST: sverige
The situation is an SD memory card used in a digital camera.
The misfortuen is the unfortunate erasure of photos on the card, using the
camera's delete function.
The goal is to recover the image files.
A USB connected external card reader is available.
The request here is for your experience, techniques, tips, or advices.
Thank you all very much in advance :)
avo
---
....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: History of Internet
DATE: 18-Apr-07 15:10:00
HOST: sverige
http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/jon/humor/internet_history/
<HUMOR.18-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: History of Internet
DATE: 18-Apr-07 15:10:00
HOST: sverige
http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/jon/humor/internet_history/
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Not OK
DATE: 13-Apr-07 13:11:42
HOST: sverige
The recent events surrounding Imus point to several important social
situations of the day.
Most notable from my perspective is how the hypocritical media outlets
parrot and amplify that which they deride as unacceptable. Or maybe they
really aren't calling it unacceptable at all, just amplifying it and
burning it into listeners' minds because they endorse it openly.
Associatedly, note that this is pretty standard Imus. Suddenly his
advertisers don't like it; but they have been feeding, fueling, and
promoting it all along. But let's not credit them with anything like a
conscience. Probably they're just trying to look "green".
And then there's the media outlets which with one hand bow to the will of
their advertisers, and with the other hand let their shouting heads
propagate the exact very same message for which they agree to can Imus.
Imus, in a way, has been a victim here, a tool, of the
political-advertising-bigmedia propaganda machine.
So are many of us, if you'll carefully observe, and don't take special care
to avoid.
Just by way of one small example, anyone who speaks and thinks 4.99 instead
of 5.0 monetary units has "been had".
A smaller, but still way too large, example are all those who STILL believe
that Iraq had WMD and was responsible for the attack upon the World Trade
Center (which they refuse to even call by its real name).
All those red counties on U.S. election maps, .... those are the ones with
very restricted access to a diverse media or open-minded discuscourse, or
university level resources and activity.
Thanks for caring :)
<IMUS.13-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Not OK
DATE: 13-Apr-07 13:11:42
HOST: sverige
The recent events surrounding Imus point to several important social
situations of the day.
Most notable from my perspective is how the hypocritical media outlets
parrot and amplify that which they deride as unacceptable. Or maybe they
really aren't calling it unacceptable at all, just amplifying it and
burning it into listeners' minds because they endorse it openly.
Associatedly, note that this is pretty standard Imus. Suddenly his
advertisers don't like it; but they have been feeding, fueling, and
promoting it all along. But let's not credit them with anything like a
conscience. Probably they're just trying to look "green".
And then there's the media outlets which with one hand bow to the will of
their advertisers, and with the other hand let their shouting heads
propagate the exact very same message for which they agree to can Imus.
Imus, in a way, has been a victim here, a tool, of the
political-advertising-bigmedia propaganda machine.
So are many of us, if you'll carefully observe, and don't take special care
to avoid.
Just by way of one small example, anyone who speaks and thinks 4.99 instead
of 5.0 monetary units has "been had".
A smaller, but still way too large, example are all those who STILL believe
that Iraq had WMD and was responsible for the attack upon the World Trade
Center (which they refuse to even call by its real name).
All those red counties on U.S. election maps, .... those are the ones with
very restricted access to a diverse media or open-minded discuscourse, or
university level resources and activity.
Thanks for caring :)
......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Document Development
DATE: 02-Feb-07 14:52:32
HOST: sverige
AUP and ByLaws are maintained in RCS at nonnic.org
I find RCS to be a singl-user system however without providing any
discussion space for collaboration and question-answer venue. Wiki provides
a better platform for that use, and I've found two which even work directly
with the RCS.
One is twiki, which I've installed at yager.non but that doesn't have
network access to the files hosted at sdf.non, so I'm not sure where that's
going yet; just dabbling at it; I'll probably copy the sdf.non files to
yager.non and give us all a chance to see how each work; and if either can
experience some participation.
The better solution, imho, is to ask smj to install ikiwiki on sdf.non so
that participants can use either the gui wiki or the terminal RCS.
Part of the solution to the question of how and where to do the document
devlopment includes the consideration of who should be able to view the
documents and who should be enabled to edit them.
Notes on ikiwiki and other early stab at a wiki for The NON are at
http://avoyager.freeshell.org/The_NON/wiki/
but I'm going to delete that site soon in favor of the new one.
<NON.02-Feb-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Document Development
DATE: 02-Feb-07 14:52:32
HOST: sverige
AUP and ByLaws are maintained in RCS at nonnic.org
I find RCS to be a singl-user system however without providing any
discussion space for collaboration and question-answer venue. Wiki provides
a better platform for that use, and I've found two which even work directly
with the RCS.
One is twiki, which I've installed at yager.non but that doesn't have
network access to the files hosted at sdf.non, so I'm not sure where that's
going yet; just dabbling at it; I'll probably copy the sdf.non files to
yager.non and give us all a chance to see how each work; and if either can
experience some participation.
The better solution, imho, is to ask smj to install ikiwiki on sdf.non so
that participants can use either the gui wiki or the terminal RCS.
Part of the solution to the question of how and where to do the document
devlopment includes the consideration of who should be able to view the
documents and who should be enabled to edit them.
Notes on ikiwiki and other early stab at a wiki for The NON are at
http://avoyager.freeshell.org/The_NON/wiki/
but I'm going to delete that site soon in favor of the new one.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Open Discussion
DATE: 02-Feb-07 15:15:11
HOST: sverige
This bboard forum is available to SDFers.
There is a public forum at forum.nonnic.org
and a public IRC channel at irc.nonnic.org:3600 #non
and I'll likely add something on the wiki with a public address.
<NON.02-Feb-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Open Discussion
DATE: 02-Feb-07 15:15:11
HOST: sverige
This bboard forum is available to SDFers.
There is a public forum at forum.nonnic.org
and a public IRC channel at irc.nonnic.org:3600 #non
and I'll likely add something on the wiki with a public address.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: re-energizing the project
DATE: 21-Jan-07 21:54:56
HOST: sverige
The NON cooperative network, a project of the SDF community, has been
revitalized by avoyager and ssc after a long hiatus. The philosophy of the
NON is simple: there is no advertising, and no one has ultimate authority.
Rather than paying money to be listed in the NON namespace, new members
instead present a certificate to be signed by existing members of the
NONNIC web of trust, verifying the new site as being non-commercial and
thereby eliminating the problem of spam.
NON sites operate within the .non top-level domain, for which there are
currently two nameservers (at yager and ssc's sites). To access the NON,
set your computer's DNS servers to 72.29.79.136 and/or 91.84.22.18, then
point your web browser to
http://nic.non/hosts.html for a list of all
current NON domains.
We are looking for volunteers to help build the network. There are no
requirements for running a NON site, other than acceptance of the policy of
non-commercial use. Domain registration is free and open to the public -
contact
[email protected] to have your domain created (see
http://stonebaked.net/domreg.html for details). If you would like to run a
nameserver and/or certificate authority for the NON, please let us know and
we will add your site to the DNS root or the NONNIC.
For real time, and time lapsed, discussion, we maintain an IRC channel #non
on stonebaked.net
Document development is by RCS on sdf.non (nonnic.org) /var/html. However,
we're looking for a suitable wiki to provide collaboration (discussion) for
the development of documents, policies, and the technical foundation. For
starters, see
http://avoyager.freeshell.org/The_NON/wiki/ but the superior
solution is probably going to be another engine installed by smj onto
sdf.non (nonnic.org). As the tentative wiki discloses, my current
recommendation is to install ikiwiki for reasons stated.
Prior bboard discussion of the NON is in the 2006 archive.
Maybe we can garner enough collective energy and attention to make some
more real progress on this project this time around.
<NON.21-Jan-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: re-energizing the project
DATE: 21-Jan-07 21:54:56
HOST: sverige
The NON cooperative network, a project of the SDF community, has been
revitalized by avoyager and ssc after a long hiatus. The philosophy of the
NON is simple: there is no advertising, and no one has ultimate authority.
Rather than paying money to be listed in the NON namespace, new members
instead present a certificate to be signed by existing members of the
NONNIC web of trust, verifying the new site as being non-commercial and
thereby eliminating the problem of spam.
NON sites operate within the .non top-level domain, for which there are
currently two nameservers (at yager and ssc's sites). To access the NON,
set your computer's DNS servers to 72.29.79.136 and/or 91.84.22.18, then
point your web browser to
http://nic.non/hosts.html for a list of all
current NON domains.
We are looking for volunteers to help build the network. There are no
requirements for running a NON site, other than acceptance of the policy of
non-commercial use. Domain registration is free and open to the public -
contact
[email protected] to have your domain created (see
http://stonebaked.net/domreg.html for details). If you would like to run a
nameserver and/or certificate authority for the NON, please let us know and
we will add your site to the DNS root or the NONNIC.
For real time, and time lapsed, discussion, we maintain an IRC channel #non
on stonebaked.net
Document development is by RCS on sdf.non (nonnic.org) /var/html. However,
we're looking for a suitable wiki to provide collaboration (discussion) for
the development of documents, policies, and the technical foundation. For
starters, see
http://avoyager.freeshell.org/The_NON/wiki/ but the superior
solution is probably going to be another engine installed by smj onto
sdf.non (nonnic.org). As the tentative wiki discloses, my current
recommendation is to install ikiwiki for reasons stated.
Prior bboard discussion of the NON is in the 2006 archive.
Maybe we can garner enough collective energy and attention to make some
more real progress on this project this time around.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: DNS status
DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:30:57
HOST: sverige
DNS is in place and functioning; though still centralized; but distributed.
<NON.26-Jan-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: DNS status
DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:30:57
HOST: sverige
DNS is in place and functioning; though still centralized; but distributed.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Email status
DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:36:06
HOST: sverige
Email is being received at sdf.non ; but it doesn't seem to be getting out
to other NON hosts.
From
[email protected] Fri Jan 26 02:04:23 2007
Return-Path: <
[email protected]>
Received: from host.yager.non ([204.13.171.173])
by sdf.non (8.13.5.20060308/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0Q24NDX015073
for <
[email protected]>; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:23 GMT
Received: by host.yager.non (Postfix, from userid 1027)
id CE68CFCC1B7; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:32 +0000 (GMT)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: lookin gOOd!
Message-Id: <
[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:32 +0000 (GMT)
From:
[email protected]
I suspect that sdf.non's outbound server is not yet NON aware.
<NON.26-Jan-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Email status
DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:36:06
HOST: sverige
Email is being received at sdf.non ; but it doesn't seem to be getting out
to other NON hosts.
From
[email protected] Fri Jan 26 02:04:23 2007
Return-Path: <
[email protected]>
Received: from host.yager.non ([204.13.171.173])
by sdf.non (8.13.5.20060308/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0Q24NDX015073
for <
[email protected]>; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:23 GMT
Received: by host.yager.non (Postfix, from userid 1027)
id CE68CFCC1B7; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:32 +0000 (GMT)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: lookin gOOd!
Message-Id: <
[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:32 +0000 (GMT)
From:
[email protected]
I suspect that sdf.non's outbound server is not yet NON aware.
...TACKER: jneitzel (J.A. Neitzel)
SUBJECT: Any chance to fix MetaARPA web pages?
DATE: 08-Aug-07 23:38:14
HOST: otaku
Hey SMJ,
Just an FYI... It looks like the MetaARPA websites are unavailable.
They worked for a while, but the DNS is not pointing to otaku now.
I guess it was for a while though.
I just checked avoyager's, jboy's, poff's, vandahm's, and my URLs
w/ no luck. Any chance you can have a look at the problem...
Whatever it might be..?
--
Thanks,
jneitzel
<REQUESTS.08-Aug-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: jneitzel (J.A. Neitzel)
SUBJECT: Any chance to fix MetaARPA web pages?
DATE: 08-Aug-07 23:38:14
HOST: otaku
Hey SMJ,
Just an FYI... It looks like the MetaARPA websites are unavailable.
They worked for a while, but the DNS is not pointing to otaku now.
I guess it was for a while though.
I just checked avoyager's, jboy's, poff's, vandahm's, and my URLs
w/ no luck. Any chance you can have a look at the problem...
Whatever it might be..?
--
Thanks,
jneitzel
..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: flixter
DATE: 28-Mar-07 16:19:49
HOST: sverige
http://www.theinternetpatrol.com.nyud.net:8080/is-flixster-a-big-fat-spammer-are-they-hacking-your-aol-or-hotmail-address-book
password snatching
<SERVICES.28-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: flixter
DATE: 28-Mar-07 16:19:49
HOST: sverige
http://www.theinternetpatrol.com.nyud.net:8080/is-flixster-a-big-fat-spammer-are-they-hacking-your-aol-or-hotmail-address-book
password snatching
....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Rebuild the WTC as is?
DATE: 24-Jun-07 13:14:20
HOST: sverige
"as is" isn't much more than a monument to government failure, inadequacy,
and incompetence;
Perhaps you intended "as was" ?? and by architecure, name, or use?
Personally I'd like to see a solar powered geodesic structure containing
the library and proceedings of the ongoing People's 911 Truth Commission.
Maybe in the basement there could be a room for World Trade as exemplified
by the Iran-Contra Affair, nuclear proliferation, and weapons dealers.
Above the World Trade sub-level could be another sub-terranean level
dedicated to exposing the fascist police state of the host country.
At ground levels, in orbit around the central dome, offices of peace
advocacy groups and NGOs.
Above these, house the Parliament of World's Religions.
It's getting prettier all the time. Let's use this space to do what we
should have done in 2001.
Thanks for asking,
avo
---
<911TRUTH.24-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Rebuild the WTC as is?
DATE: 24-Jun-07 13:14:20
HOST: sverige
"as is" isn't much more than a monument to government failure, inadequacy,
and incompetence;
Perhaps you intended "as was" ?? and by architecure, name, or use?
Personally I'd like to see a solar powered geodesic structure containing
the library and proceedings of the ongoing People's 911 Truth Commission.
Maybe in the basement there could be a room for World Trade as exemplified
by the Iran-Contra Affair, nuclear proliferation, and weapons dealers.
Above the World Trade sub-level could be another sub-terranean level
dedicated to exposing the fascist police state of the host country.
At ground levels, in orbit around the central dome, offices of peace
advocacy groups and NGOs.
Above these, house the Parliament of World's Religions.
It's getting prettier all the time. Let's use this space to do what we
should have done in 2001.
Thanks for asking,
avo
---
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 16-Apr-07 00:17:58
HOST: sverige
Fred,
Responding to your statement "Do you really believe it is possible to
create a fraud of large magnitude without a credible leak (not just a
purported inconsistency) in such an open society as we have."
What do you see as the magnitude and duration of the fraud of VietNam war
before Daniel Ellsberg leaked "the Pentagon Papers"?
or the truth about the lie in the Gulf of Tonkin?
or Condi's "mushroom cloud" arising over the USA if her neocons didn't take
out Saddam?
or the lie about the sexuality of some relative of John McCain which was
perpetrated by Georgie/Rove in the 2000 Republican Presidential Primary?
In all these examples, and more, the truth did indeed ultimately appear.
And in all cases it was "too late"; the damage of the lie had already been
done.
The fact of truth ultimately coming to light should not provide a basis for
condoning the lies and desceptions, or for belittling the enormous amount
of effort required to get the truth into the light, and the people in a
receptive state to acknowledge it.
And please don't dismiss the importance of the latter. It's hard to get
people into a state where they're willing to admit that their government is
lying to them. And it's harder yet, indeed nearly impossible, ot get them
to belive that they themselves made a mistake or have been wrong all along,
or that they themselves are biased, bigoted, victims of propaganda.
Thanks for caring.
<911TRUTH.16-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 16-Apr-07 00:17:58
HOST: sverige
Fred,
Responding to your statement "Do you really believe it is possible to
create a fraud of large magnitude without a credible leak (not just a
purported inconsistency) in such an open society as we have."
What do you see as the magnitude and duration of the fraud of VietNam war
before Daniel Ellsberg leaked "the Pentagon Papers"?
or the truth about the lie in the Gulf of Tonkin?
or Condi's "mushroom cloud" arising over the USA if her neocons didn't take
out Saddam?
or the lie about the sexuality of some relative of John McCain which was
perpetrated by Georgie/Rove in the 2000 Republican Presidential Primary?
In all these examples, and more, the truth did indeed ultimately appear.
And in all cases it was "too late"; the damage of the lie had already been
done.
The fact of truth ultimately coming to light should not provide a basis for
condoning the lies and desceptions, or for belittling the enormous amount
of effort required to get the truth into the light, and the people in a
receptive state to acknowledge it.
And please don't dismiss the importance of the latter. It's hard to get
people into a state where they're willing to admit that their government is
lying to them. And it's harder yet, indeed nearly impossible, ot get them
to belive that they themselves made a mistake or have been wrong all along,
or that they themselves are biased, bigoted, victims of propaganda.
Thanks for caring.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 17-May-07 03:33:47
HOST: sverige
Yes, Fred, the truth did finally come out, a very long time after the
damage had been done, and after any perpetrator of such treason could be
held accountable.
<911TRUTH.17-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 17-May-07 03:33:47
HOST: sverige
Yes, Fred, the truth did finally come out, a very long time after the
damage had been done, and after any perpetrator of such treason could be
held accountable.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 25-Mar-07 18:20:55
HOST: sverige
The only "Conspiracy Theory" out there is that promulgated by those
turdlets in the big white cesspool at the end of Pennsylvania Ave., that
Saddam caused "911". Everything else is just sound investigative research;
and a whole lot of evidence sequestered by a gang which is incapable of
providing a straight answer to almost any question.
<911TRUTH.25-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 25-Mar-07 18:20:55
HOST: sverige
The only "Conspiracy Theory" out there is that promulgated by those
turdlets in the big white cesspool at the end of Pennsylvania Ave., that
Saddam caused "911". Everything else is just sound investigative research;
and a whole lot of evidence sequestered by a gang which is incapable of
providing a straight answer to almost any question.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 26-Mar-07 16:40:04
HOST: sverige
Indeed, "truth, science, calm reasoning" are the precious perls of a good
debate or investigative research. Yet it's the presentation reporting
thereof which makes the case with the judicial public, even when it has
manipulated the facts, faked the science, and proceeded with an
unaassailable priority of self-preservation, preservationism, ideological
fury, and partisan agenda.
It happens ALL THE TIME in politics. It's arguably all that they do, is to
lie, deceive, and manipulate for their greedy self-interests.
When they're not just plainly witholding essential evidence all together.
I'm confident that the open-source community can make a valid analysis if
it has access to all the evidence. To ridicule them for trying, and for
their listing the gaping faults in the official line, would be to succumb
without thought.
<911TRUTH.26-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 26-Mar-07 16:40:04
HOST: sverige
Indeed, "truth, science, calm reasoning" are the precious perls of a good
debate or investigative research. Yet it's the presentation reporting
thereof which makes the case with the judicial public, even when it has
manipulated the facts, faked the science, and proceeded with an
unaassailable priority of self-preservation, preservationism, ideological
fury, and partisan agenda.
It happens ALL THE TIME in politics. It's arguably all that they do, is to
lie, deceive, and manipulate for their greedy self-interests.
When they're not just plainly witholding essential evidence all together.
I'm confident that the open-source community can make a valid analysis if
it has access to all the evidence. To ridicule them for trying, and for
their listing the gaping faults in the official line, would be to succumb
without thought.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 27-Mar-07 14:17:13
HOST: sverige
"Your boss sed you awk to get back to work."
Good Catch ;-}
<911TRUTH.27-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth
DATE: 27-Mar-07 14:17:13
HOST: sverige
"Your boss sed you awk to get back to work."
Good Catch ;-}
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ...
DATE: 26-Mar-07 16:51:45
HOST: sverige
Nah. Nothing will change within the existing two party, plurality based,
privately funded, system.
The options as I see them are:
Vote Green to change the system.
Join the 50% of registered voters who say "I'm not supporting your
system any longer." by casting empty ballots or not casting ballots.
Else, Condi v. Hillary will become the pinnacle of U.S. political
development indeed.
<911TRUTH.26-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ...
DATE: 26-Mar-07 16:51:45
HOST: sverige
Nah. Nothing will change within the existing two party, plurality based,
privately funded, system.
The options as I see them are:
Vote Green to change the system.
Join the 50% of registered voters who say "I'm not supporting your
system any longer." by casting empty ballots or not casting ballots.
Else, Condi v. Hillary will become the pinnacle of U.S. political
development indeed.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ...
DATE: 27-Mar-07 04:26:47
HOST: sverige
Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are THE BIG problem. They're both
just transient little problems. Voting for one is the same as voting for
the other, and voting for either one is a show of support for a criminally
corrupt system limited to only 2 "parties", and a failed plurality
counting system.
It doesn't matter if you see it or not :)
Gore received more Nader votes in 2000 than Nader received Gore votes.
If you want to settle for the least worst of two options, you're welcome to
it. I don't cast votes for candidates who I don't want in office.
So take your pick. Hillary or Condi. You'll get Cheney and Carlyle with either one.
I still won't support a candidate or position which I don't want. It's a
simple matter of principle and integrity.
<911TRUTH.27-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ...
DATE: 27-Mar-07 04:26:47
HOST: sverige
Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are THE BIG problem. They're both
just transient little problems. Voting for one is the same as voting for
the other, and voting for either one is a show of support for a criminally
corrupt system limited to only 2 "parties", and a failed plurality
counting system.
It doesn't matter if you see it or not :)
Gore received more Nader votes in 2000 than Nader received Gore votes.
If you want to settle for the least worst of two options, you're welcome to
it. I don't cast votes for candidates who I don't want in office.
So take your pick. Hillary or Condi. You'll get Cheney and Carlyle with either one.
I still won't support a candidate or position which I don't want. It's a
simple matter of principle and integrity.
TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous)
SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ...
DATE: 27-Mar-07 05:05:29
clearly avoyager has something to hide. a vote for nader is a good vote
for both nader and the democrats. vote nader.
<911TRUTH.27-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous)
SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ...
DATE: 27-Mar-07 05:05:29
clearly avoyager has something to hide. a vote for nader is a good vote
for both nader and the democrats. vote nader.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the bigger picture
DATE: 14-May-07 20:48:18
HOST: sverige
Well, without Iran of course, Regan would have never acquired the throne
and shredded the Constitution.
<911TRUTH.14-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the bigger picture
DATE: 14-May-07 20:48:18
HOST: sverige
Well, without Iran of course, Regan would have never acquired the throne
and shredded the Constitution.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the bigger picture
DATE: 16-Apr-07 12:11:25
HOST: sverige
You're either kidding or daft. Georgie? "plan"? "9/11"? What a ridiculous
mockery of his real negligence and complicity.
He certainly did not, and is not nearly clever enough or capable enough, to
plan the attack upon the World Trade Center.
However, "9/11", as an emblem of the reconstruction of militant extremests
within "the Muslim world" AND the U.S., he and his cabal are certainly the
fabricators.
You should carefully watch "The Power of Nightmares", if you have any
integrity for truth.
<911TRUTH.16-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the bigger picture
DATE: 16-Apr-07 12:11:25
HOST: sverige
You're either kidding or daft. Georgie? "plan"? "9/11"? What a ridiculous
mockery of his real negligence and complicity.
He certainly did not, and is not nearly clever enough or capable enough, to
plan the attack upon the World Trade Center.
However, "9/11", as an emblem of the reconstruction of militant extremests
within "the Muslim world" AND the U.S., he and his cabal are certainly the
fabricators.
You should carefully watch "The Power of Nightmares", if you have any
integrity for truth.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. cindy sheehan leaves office
DATE: 14-Jun-07 04:45:06
HOST: sverige
? We did not "descend" from apes. We "ascended". :)
<911TRUTH.14-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. cindy sheehan leaves office
DATE: 14-Jun-07 04:45:06
HOST: sverige
? We did not "descend" from apes. We "ascended". :)
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. cindy sheehan leaves office
DATE: 29-May-07 13:38:46
HOST: sverige
"if we don't find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our
Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly
descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate
wasteland."
You know, this could have been said in America 100 years ago.
They were right back then. Today it's too late.
The Representative Republic of the United States does not exist today; or
since year 2000, maybe earlier.
Lil'George isn't the cause. It's the symptom. It's the definitive marker,
the sure signal that the representative republic has been ruined.
Now I don't know yet if science can fix politics, or people. Religion can't
fix politics. Hell, it's been the source of more egregious history than the
solution. But religion can fix people to fix politics. It's just a simple
matter of morality and compassion exercised with common sense.
<911TRUTH.29-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. cindy sheehan leaves office
DATE: 29-May-07 13:38:46
HOST: sverige
"if we don't find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our
Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly
descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate
wasteland."
You know, this could have been said in America 100 years ago.
They were right back then. Today it's too late.
The Representative Republic of the United States does not exist today; or
since year 2000, maybe earlier.
Lil'George isn't the cause. It's the symptom. It's the definitive marker,
the sure signal that the representative republic has been ruined.
Now I don't know yet if science can fix politics, or people. Religion can't
fix politics. Hell, it's been the source of more egregious history than the
solution. But religion can fix people to fix politics. It's just a simple
matter of morality and compassion exercised with common sense.
...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. something just goes on and on...
DATE: 04-May-07 14:45:49
HOST: sverige
Descriptions of these events can also serve to educate the readership about
pitfalls into which they may stumble and the consequent detriment to the
community.
<ANONYMOUS.04-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. something just goes on and on...
DATE: 04-May-07 14:45:49
HOST: sverige
Descriptions of these events can also serve to educate the readership about
pitfalls into which they may stumble and the consequent detriment to the
community.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Harmless pain
DATE: 04-Sep-07 20:53:19
HOST: sverige
I recently visited a dermatologist who used an electrical device to remove
some pre-moles, "skin-tags", etc.
Each "burning" was exceedingly painful, but brief. Maybe a dozen in a
ten-minute period. I think that the pain caused the body to release some
chemical which resulted in a kind of jubliant ecstasy for several hours and
a kind of delight for several days which was quite positive and more than
marginally addictive.
Yeah, it hurt more than anything for a brief bit, repeatedly (5 sec. burn;
3 sec. pause cycle ... until I required a 2 minute pause to wipe my eyes
and release muscle tension); then again. ..... the overall experience was
rewarding; I highly recommend it; and think of returning, though there's
really nothing more to burn off.
I note however that the dear old lady practitioner was as "wound up" as
they come, and admitted to treating herself regularly (weekly or monthly)
just to stay atop of the dark spots on the top of her hands.
avo
---
<ANONYMOUS.04-Sep-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Harmless pain
DATE: 04-Sep-07 20:53:19
HOST: sverige
I recently visited a dermatologist who used an electrical device to remove
some pre-moles, "skin-tags", etc.
Each "burning" was exceedingly painful, but brief. Maybe a dozen in a
ten-minute period. I think that the pain caused the body to release some
chemical which resulted in a kind of jubliant ecstasy for several hours and
a kind of delight for several days which was quite positive and more than
marginally addictive.
Yeah, it hurt more than anything for a brief bit, repeatedly (5 sec. burn;
3 sec. pause cycle ... until I required a 2 minute pause to wipe my eyes
and release muscle tension); then again. ..... the overall experience was
rewarding; I highly recommend it; and think of returning, though there's
really nothing more to burn off.
I note however that the dear old lady practitioner was as "wound up" as
they come, and admitted to treating herself regularly (weekly or monthly)
just to stay atop of the dark spots on the top of her hands.
avo
---
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Harmless pain
DATE: 05-Sep-07 01:19:20
HOST: sverige
Barnacle: In the 60s folks didn't cut or mutilate themselves, striking out
in frustration with/at their emotional being. In the 60s folks sat down in
a public space, poured a few gallons of gasoline on themselves and lit it.
Neither of these actions really seem to seek physical pain the way bunjee
jumpers and thrill seakers, even aerobic athletes, beer drinkers, and pot
smokers, are addicted to "the rush" of whatever it is.
It would be terribly awful to have demons inside of your mind.
<ANONYMOUS.05-Sep-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Harmless pain
DATE: 05-Sep-07 01:19:20
HOST: sverige
Barnacle: In the 60s folks didn't cut or mutilate themselves, striking out
in frustration with/at their emotional being. In the 60s folks sat down in
a public space, poured a few gallons of gasoline on themselves and lit it.
Neither of these actions really seem to seek physical pain the way bunjee
jumpers and thrill seakers, even aerobic athletes, beer drinkers, and pot
smokers, are addicted to "the rush" of whatever it is.
It would be terribly awful to have demons inside of your mind.
..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Your entrance music?
DATE: 11-Dec-06 19:26:43
HOST: sverige
"Layla"
<ANONYMOUS.11-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Your entrance music?
DATE: 11-Dec-06 19:26:43
HOST: sverige
"Layla"
..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bs27975
DATE: 12-Jun-07 02:29:16
HOST: sverige
cor, I don't see an "rtfm" condition here; the manual in this case is SDF
documentation, which this guy is reading over and over again without
missing anything aparently.
I think the questions are totally legit. Most of them aren't in the
existing documentation because either nobody cared before, and/or the
answers aren't static.
My personal objection, and others' are different, is only the combination
of the delivery rate of these questions, and the tone which I perceived in
them ...
When I edit text, I replace "please fix your FAQ" with "I couldn't find
this information in your FAQ or in ... or ... or .... Is there a source for
this which I am missing?"
But I've been involved in electronic communications plenty enough to know
that tone is terribly hard to transmit in a series of serial bits. I'd have
likely let the tone go if its rate hadn't been "off the charts".
Really, or not, even barny isn't [quite] this manic :) and look how long
its taken "us" [tinu] to accomodate/appreciate *him* <hugs>
SDF in my experience has never been a "closed society" rejecting or
threatening newcomers. It does consist of members who want to be/feel a
part of "the gang", and their/our words may likely reflect our appreciation
of the current community without intending that it be closed or exclusive.
One nice thing about this experience is a fresh idea to request an Ignore
feature in BBOARD.
I think its also notable the quantity of users willing to state positions
without taking responsibility for them. I have NOT been an 'anonymous'
poster to this, or hardly any other, thread or board here.
But don't get me started on social responsibility or accountability this
month, OK? <s>
avo
---
If we all stop voting, will they go away?
<ANONYMOUS.12-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bs27975
DATE: 12-Jun-07 02:29:16
HOST: sverige
cor, I don't see an "rtfm" condition here; the manual in this case is SDF
documentation, which this guy is reading over and over again without
missing anything aparently.
I think the questions are totally legit. Most of them aren't in the
existing documentation because either nobody cared before, and/or the
answers aren't static.
My personal objection, and others' are different, is only the combination
of the delivery rate of these questions, and the tone which I perceived in
them ...
When I edit text, I replace "please fix your FAQ" with "I couldn't find
this information in your FAQ or in ... or ... or .... Is there a source for
this which I am missing?"
But I've been involved in electronic communications plenty enough to know
that tone is terribly hard to transmit in a series of serial bits. I'd have
likely let the tone go if its rate hadn't been "off the charts".
Really, or not, even barny isn't [quite] this manic :) and look how long
its taken "us" [tinu] to accomodate/appreciate *him* <hugs>
SDF in my experience has never been a "closed society" rejecting or
threatening newcomers. It does consist of members who want to be/feel a
part of "the gang", and their/our words may likely reflect our appreciation
of the current community without intending that it be closed or exclusive.
One nice thing about this experience is a fresh idea to request an Ignore
feature in BBOARD.
I think its also notable the quantity of users willing to state positions
without taking responsibility for them. I have NOT been an 'anonymous'
poster to this, or hardly any other, thread or board here.
But don't get me started on social responsibility or accountability this
month, OK? <s>
avo
---
If we all stop voting, will they go away?
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bs27975
DATE: 13-Jun-07 04:52:01
HOST: sverige
from VPM: "'manic', I liked that, I guess it was accurate,"
yeah
and my comments on this were not a rant
my comments on politics and economics are rants :) (maybe)
one day they'll be history :)
Peace. Chill. Sit in the shade, have a beer, and listen to the wind blow,
the leaves rustle, and the birds tweet.
<ANONYMOUS.13-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bs27975
DATE: 13-Jun-07 04:52:01
HOST: sverige
from VPM: "'manic', I liked that, I guess it was accurate,"
yeah
and my comments on this were not a rant
my comments on politics and economics are rants :) (maybe)
one day they'll be history :)
Peace. Chill. Sit in the shade, have a beer, and listen to the wind blow,
the leaves rustle, and the birds tweet.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bs27975
DATE: 13-Jun-07 05:00:57
HOST: sverige
Well posted, console!!
and he doesn't even come here to waste everybody's time making anonymous
posts about pissing
Thank you both.
<ANONYMOUS.13-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bs27975
DATE: 13-Jun-07 05:00:57
HOST: sverige
Well posted, console!!
and he doesn't even come here to waste everybody's time making anonymous
posts about pissing
Thank you both.
.....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. depression
DATE: 15-Dec-06 16:51:13
HOST: sverige
I'm very sorry for your loss. You *should* feel angry; and you will always
feel sad about this tragic and senseless loss.
Please don't blow yourself up; and please don't join or believe the Bushit
that you deserved this because you "hate freedom".
There is a diety, by any name, who loves you in your grief, and who gives
you the love with which you grieve, and assures you that this aberrant
event is not "the plan" for your generation.
Somebody has to grow up to evolve the human civilization from selfish
insensitivity into more love and understanding. You are in a strong
position to do this; and your father is with you (within you) forever,
helping.
-
avo
<ANONYMOUS.15-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. depression
DATE: 15-Dec-06 16:51:13
HOST: sverige
I'm very sorry for your loss. You *should* feel angry; and you will always
feel sad about this tragic and senseless loss.
Please don't blow yourself up; and please don't join or believe the Bushit
that you deserved this because you "hate freedom".
There is a diety, by any name, who loves you in your grief, and who gives
you the love with which you grieve, and assures you that this aberrant
event is not "the plan" for your generation.
Somebody has to grow up to evolve the human civilization from selfish
insensitivity into more love and understanding. You are in a strong
position to do this; and your father is with you (within you) forever,
helping.
-
avo
TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous)
SUBJECT: .. depression
DATE: 16-Dec-06 00:22:26
Um actually if you look where it says "Poster" the first was by Anonymous,
the second by avoyager and the third by Anonymous.
Sorry to disappoint.
<ANONYMOUS.16-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous)
SUBJECT: .. depression
DATE: 16-Dec-06 00:22:26
Um actually if you look where it says "Poster" the first was by Anonymous,
the second by avoyager and the third by Anonymous.
Sorry to disappoint.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. lucid dreams
DATE: 16-Nov-06 02:37:15
HOST: sverige
"- Flew like Superman (I just kinda swim through the air)"
Yeah. I've done both. The water was nice, but slow, and required more
energy; gliding on favorable breezes is much much different in a very
positive way, and certainly covers more territory and viewpoint. It's the
best way to arrive at and depart from outdoor social gatherings.
Keep at it. You're doing great!
<ANONYMOUS.16-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. lucid dreams
DATE: 16-Nov-06 02:37:15
HOST: sverige
"- Flew like Superman (I just kinda swim through the air)"
Yeah. I've done both. The water was nice, but slow, and required more
energy; gliding on favorable breezes is much much different in a very
positive way, and certainly covers more territory and viewpoint. It's the
best way to arrive at and depart from outdoor social gatherings.
Keep at it. You're doing great!
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. convertion to catholicism
DATE: 16-Oct-07 16:45:19
HOST: sverige
Greetings to the original poster.
Relatedly, and notably, I think, I came across this annotation recently in
the Scofield Reference Edition of the Bible, referencing Ishamel :
"Ishmael, the child of Sarai's and Abram's lapse into unbelief, was the
progenitor of the Arabs, the traditional enemies of the Jewish people.
Moreover Mohammed, the founder of Islam, whose adherents form
Christianity's most difficult missionary problem, came from the line of
Ishmael. Islam is the world religion which is, perhaps, closest to
Christianity; thus it is the hardest to penetrate with the Gospel of
Christ."
These words are chock full of bias and bigotry. "lapse into unbelief",
"traditional enemies". And of course the blatant "most difficult missionary
problem ... hardest to penetrate with the Gospel"
I cannot recommend such a religion or religious faith to anybody, frankly.
I can, and do, recommend examining yourself and your spirituality through
an exposure to Bahai, Buddhism, and Swedenborg ("New Church"). The latter
is what I call "post-protestant" having parted/evolved from the protestants
as they did from the catholics as they did from the jews as they did from
the polytheisms of their day.
While Swedenborgians most certainly do believe in God, and Christ, as One;
they do not insist that you do so likewise. Their position, which I believe
is also true of Buddhists, Bahai, and a great many other named and unnamed
theologies, is that of the Golden Rule:
"Love one another as I have loved you."
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
"Treat all others as you would like to be treated by them."
or like an old Sci-Fi channel ad stated during a very brief run, "What if
anybody who wanted to could have sex with you?"
As you seem to be aware, and others (including posters to this thread) are
not, natural sight and understanding is very limited. With spiritual sight
and understanding, many things can be known and appreciated which the
natural person regards only as "bullshit" and "a crutch for the weak"
because they do not, and will not, let themselves see or move beyond
themselves.
Perhaps their impediment includes all the vast damage done by those who
abuse things of religion and faith for selfish or ideologic purposes;
specifically those who blaspheme the Word of God by treating it as if it
were a fieldbook of natural history, or a complete history of the universe,
or a prophecy promulgated in the limted language and understanding of their
tiny little cultural sphere. It's the same problem with the atheists who
live in their own tiny little bubbles, and for centuries denied that
gravity, or a solar system, or magnetism, or an immune system, or a soul,
or a will, exist just because they couldn't see it, and because they regard
themselves as all-knowing and all-important.
There is much to explore beyond our limited experiences. Enjoy it with
earnest humility, and an honest integrity, that you not be deceived.
avo
---
<ANONYMOUS.16-Oct-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. convertion to catholicism
DATE: 16-Oct-07 16:45:19
HOST: sverige
Greetings to the original poster.
Relatedly, and notably, I think, I came across this annotation recently in
the Scofield Reference Edition of the Bible, referencing Ishamel :
"Ishmael, the child of Sarai's and Abram's lapse into unbelief, was the
progenitor of the Arabs, the traditional enemies of the Jewish people.
Moreover Mohammed, the founder of Islam, whose adherents form
Christianity's most difficult missionary problem, came from the line of
Ishmael. Islam is the world religion which is, perhaps, closest to
Christianity; thus it is the hardest to penetrate with the Gospel of
Christ."
These words are chock full of bias and bigotry. "lapse into unbelief",
"traditional enemies". And of course the blatant "most difficult missionary
problem ... hardest to penetrate with the Gospel"
I cannot recommend such a religion or religious faith to anybody, frankly.
I can, and do, recommend examining yourself and your spirituality through
an exposure to Bahai, Buddhism, and Swedenborg ("New Church"). The latter
is what I call "post-protestant" having parted/evolved from the protestants
as they did from the catholics as they did from the jews as they did from
the polytheisms of their day.
While Swedenborgians most certainly do believe in God, and Christ, as One;
they do not insist that you do so likewise. Their position, which I believe
is also true of Buddhists, Bahai, and a great many other named and unnamed
theologies, is that of the Golden Rule:
"Love one another as I have loved you."
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
"Treat all others as you would like to be treated by them."
or like an old Sci-Fi channel ad stated during a very brief run, "What if
anybody who wanted to could have sex with you?"
As you seem to be aware, and others (including posters to this thread) are
not, natural sight and understanding is very limited. With spiritual sight
and understanding, many things can be known and appreciated which the
natural person regards only as "bullshit" and "a crutch for the weak"
because they do not, and will not, let themselves see or move beyond
themselves.
Perhaps their impediment includes all the vast damage done by those who
abuse things of religion and faith for selfish or ideologic purposes;
specifically those who blaspheme the Word of God by treating it as if it
were a fieldbook of natural history, or a complete history of the universe,
or a prophecy promulgated in the limted language and understanding of their
tiny little cultural sphere. It's the same problem with the atheists who
live in their own tiny little bubbles, and for centuries denied that
gravity, or a solar system, or magnetism, or an immune system, or a soul,
or a will, exist just because they couldn't see it, and because they regard
themselves as all-knowing and all-important.
There is much to explore beyond our limited experiences. Enjoy it with
earnest humility, and an honest integrity, that you not be deceived.
avo
---
TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous)
SUBJECT: .. convertion to catholicism
DATE: 16-Oct-07 23:01:54
OP, it sounds like you could have an interesting time reading up on
different religions and meeting people of different faiths. While no one
is free of past baggage, you seem to be in a questioning state of mind,
which is good! Why not start by asking people who come from different
faiths about some books that can introduce you to their beliefs? Maybe
avoyager could recommend some books about Buddhism, Bahai and Swedwnborg.
As a Christian, I recommend _Mere Christianity_ by CS Lewis because I think
it is popular with both Protestants and Catholics (also because I'm a huge
Lewis fan). I've heard a lot of atheists admire Dawkins, so maybe he would
be a good one to read about. I have only just begun one of his books so my
recommendation can't be trusted on that. Besides I'm an evangelical
Christian so you'd never trust my opinion! ;-)
I am curious as to why you would want something as important as religion to
be a way of fitting a kind of racial stereotype you want to adopt. More
and more people are breaking out of these things. I think your bi-racial
background is cool!
<ANONYMOUS.16-Oct-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous)
SUBJECT: .. convertion to catholicism
DATE: 16-Oct-07 23:01:54
OP, it sounds like you could have an interesting time reading up on
different religions and meeting people of different faiths. While no one
is free of past baggage, you seem to be in a questioning state of mind,
which is good! Why not start by asking people who come from different
faiths about some books that can introduce you to their beliefs? Maybe
avoyager could recommend some books about Buddhism, Bahai and Swedwnborg.
As a Christian, I recommend _Mere Christianity_ by CS Lewis because I think
it is popular with both Protestants and Catholics (also because I'm a huge
Lewis fan). I've heard a lot of atheists admire Dawkins, so maybe he would
be a good one to read about. I have only just begun one of his books so my
recommendation can't be trusted on that. Besides I'm an evangelical
Christian so you'd never trust my opinion! ;-)
I am curious as to why you would want something as important as religion to
be a way of fitting a kind of racial stereotype you want to adopt. More
and more people are breaking out of these things. I think your bi-racial
background is cool!
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. cheaters
DATE: 20-Jul-07 03:28:07
HOST: sverige
kudos davek!
for getting it right, explaining it, and for being in com to help make it
happen.
with respect,
avo
---
If we all stop voting, will they go away?
<ANONYMOUS.20-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. cheaters
DATE: 20-Jul-07 03:28:07
HOST: sverige
kudos davek!
for getting it right, explaining it, and for being in com to help make it
happen.
with respect,
avo
---
If we all stop voting, will they go away?
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. cheaters
DATE: 20-Jul-07 20:05:47
HOST: sverige
I recall having no difficulty compiling irssi here, as a novice
experimenter; noting that it was not possible to engage the scripting
features.
Believe it or not, some folks have preferences for things like irssi over
bitchx.
hth.
<ANONYMOUS.20-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. cheaters
DATE: 20-Jul-07 20:05:47
HOST: sverige
I recall having no difficulty compiling irssi here, as a novice
experimenter; noting that it was not possible to engage the scripting
features.
Believe it or not, some folks have preferences for things like irssi over
bitchx.
hth.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. now more alpha males
DATE: 24-Jun-07 23:34:55
HOST: sverige
"Natural variation is a _good_ thing; don't try to squash it out."
What you describe as "variation" is actually "mutation" and it is the
single most excellent thing which permits life of any form to continue at
all, as well as provide mammals and hominids the framework with which to
continue developing and surviving in almost whichever environment arises.
Some work out favorably, others don't, and some are just plain mistakes
which are part of the package.
In fact, quite a large percentage of human fertilized eggs self-terminate
before the mother host can confirm a pregnancy, as part of this reality.
It seems reasonable to me that some homosexuals are born into that
propensity, others are free to make that choice willfully.
We're all mutants; it's part of the definition.
As you say, celebrate that.
<ANONYMOUS.24-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. now more alpha males
DATE: 24-Jun-07 23:34:55
HOST: sverige
"Natural variation is a _good_ thing; don't try to squash it out."
What you describe as "variation" is actually "mutation" and it is the
single most excellent thing which permits life of any form to continue at
all, as well as provide mammals and hominids the framework with which to
continue developing and surviving in almost whichever environment arises.
Some work out favorably, others don't, and some are just plain mistakes
which are part of the package.
In fact, quite a large percentage of human fertilized eggs self-terminate
before the mother host can confirm a pregnancy, as part of this reality.
It seems reasonable to me that some homosexuals are born into that
propensity, others are free to make that choice willfully.
We're all mutants; it's part of the definition.
As you say, celebrate that.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. sdf user forum? WTF??
DATE: 23-Sep-07 17:23:48
HOST: sverige
"SDF takes all kinds"
Not just SDF, but human life itself; indeed ALL life on this planet is
wholly dependent upon and consequent to (of?) random mutation and its
associated variety. Conformity is of course contrary to this natural order.
There, now you know :)
avo
<ANONYMOUS.23-Sep-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. sdf user forum? WTF??
DATE: 23-Sep-07 17:23:48
HOST: sverige
"SDF takes all kinds"
Not just SDF, but human life itself; indeed ALL life on this planet is
wholly dependent upon and consequent to (of?) random mutation and its
associated variety. Conformity is of course contrary to this natural order.
There, now you know :)
avo
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. how to be happy
DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:43:05
HOST: sverige
Volunteering brings happiness with complete independence of other people's
sorrows. Being of service to others, and feeling the brotherhood and
goodwill are the [sole] source of joy and inner peace.
<ANONYMOUS.26-Jan-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. how to be happy
DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:43:05
HOST: sverige
Volunteering brings happiness with complete independence of other people's
sorrows. Being of service to others, and feeling the brotherhood and
goodwill are the [sole] source of joy and inner peace.
...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment
DATE: 03-Mar-07 14:15:52
HOST: sverige
It's the long arm of The_Police_State.
working to get more capitalists to believe in it's Goodness and Need
<ANONYMOUS.03-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment
DATE: 03-Mar-07 14:15:52
HOST: sverige
It's the long arm of The_Police_State.
working to get more capitalists to believe in it's Goodness and Need
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment
DATE: 05-Mar-07 04:10:43
HOST: sverige
"It's the voting public's fault,"
uh.huh.
"because they're the ones that put corrupt individuals in positions of
power in the first place."
Only in theory. If you were paying attention in the US recently, you'd have
noticed that it was the Supreme Court, and corrupted voting/counting
processes, not the public, which put the current dim bulb into the hot
seat.
And that no more than 25% of eligible US voters did vote for him in the
first place; and they are themselves victims of the great propaganda.
And as general rule, with notable exceptions, you pretty much have to be
corrupt in order to get onto tbe ballot in the first place; and if you beat
those odds, and come in as Mister Smith you're going to be corrupted before
you blow the whistle on the whole criminal operation, again with a serious
minority of notable exceptions.
So, enjoy your self-satisfaction in public responsibility as you proudly
and gleefully select either Condi or Hilary next year.
etc.
<ANONYMOUS.05-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment
DATE: 05-Mar-07 04:10:43
HOST: sverige
"It's the voting public's fault,"
uh.huh.
"because they're the ones that put corrupt individuals in positions of
power in the first place."
Only in theory. If you were paying attention in the US recently, you'd have
noticed that it was the Supreme Court, and corrupted voting/counting
processes, not the public, which put the current dim bulb into the hot
seat.
And that no more than 25% of eligible US voters did vote for him in the
first place; and they are themselves victims of the great propaganda.
And as general rule, with notable exceptions, you pretty much have to be
corrupt in order to get onto tbe ballot in the first place; and if you beat
those odds, and come in as Mister Smith you're going to be corrupted before
you blow the whistle on the whole criminal operation, again with a serious
minority of notable exceptions.
So, enjoy your self-satisfaction in public responsibility as you proudly
and gleefully select either Condi or Hilary next year.
etc.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment
DATE: 28-Feb-07 20:56:37
HOST: sverige
I put forward that bigotry and gender-bias, for instance, and several other
behavior traits, are equally, and frequently more, harmful than substance
use.
<ANONYMOUS.28-Feb-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment
DATE: 28-Feb-07 20:56:37
HOST: sverige
I put forward that bigotry and gender-bias, for instance, and several other
behavior traits, are equally, and frequently more, harmful than substance
use.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment
DATE: 28-Feb-07 21:05:35
HOST: sverige
"No illegal drug can be used responsibly." <<-- ????
I don't think this is sufficiently true.
Can you run a traffic signal responsibly?
Can you skate responsibly on the pond when the sign says "forbidden"?
Can you stay out after curfew responsibly?
The answer to all of these is "no" ONLY in the case where you define
"responsibly" as unquestioned obedience and conformity.
What I see happening all too often is people expecting, even demanding,
that all others obey and conform to their values and policies; and
rejecting opposition, diversity, even imagination.
<ANONYMOUS.28-Feb-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment
DATE: 28-Feb-07 21:05:35
HOST: sverige
"No illegal drug can be used responsibly." <<-- ????
I don't think this is sufficiently true.
Can you run a traffic signal responsibly?
Can you skate responsibly on the pond when the sign says "forbidden"?
Can you stay out after curfew responsibly?
The answer to all of these is "no" ONLY in the case where you define
"responsibly" as unquestioned obedience and conformity.
What I see happening all too often is people expecting, even demanding,
that all others obey and conform to their values and policies; and
rejecting opposition, diversity, even imagination.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. com vs. bboard
DATE: 01-May-07 17:05:29
HOST: sverige
The poll may be (have been) running concurrently on commode and just
scrolled off :)
<ANONYMOUS.01-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. com vs. bboard
DATE: 01-May-07 17:05:29
HOST: sverige
The poll may be (have been) running concurrently on commode and just
scrolled off :)
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die?
DATE: 30-Oct-06 04:08:07
HOST: sverige
Life on earth is a physical, natural, experience, stuck in time and space.
There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, or by
natural or physical constraints. Most of this know this in a number of
different ways, through dreaming, through love, through imagination, for
instance.
Our spiritual self is our ultimate essence (formed by the decisions we
make, which identify what it is that we truly love). Our natural bodies are
just a covering. Sometimes our outward personna is a mask. Sometimes our
behaviors are a pretense.
What we call "death" is the death of those natural, physical, and
superficial components. Our spirit ("ruling loves"? soul?) is not
physically bound within time and space. It survives, without the ailments
of its former physical trappings, and without pretense.
--
since you asked
<ANONYMOUS.30-Oct-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die?
DATE: 30-Oct-06 04:08:07
HOST: sverige
Life on earth is a physical, natural, experience, stuck in time and space.
There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, or by
natural or physical constraints. Most of this know this in a number of
different ways, through dreaming, through love, through imagination, for
instance.
Our spiritual self is our ultimate essence (formed by the decisions we
make, which identify what it is that we truly love). Our natural bodies are
just a covering. Sometimes our outward personna is a mask. Sometimes our
behaviors are a pretense.
What we call "death" is the death of those natural, physical, and
superficial components. Our spirit ("ruling loves"? soul?) is not
physically bound within time and space. It survives, without the ailments
of its former physical trappings, and without pretense.
--
since you asked
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die?
DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:32:06
HOST: sverige
In response, belief is not required. Neither is understanding, faith, or
association with a religious order or any denomination. It's just sort of
the way it is. Our "state" at and after death is what we've made of it
while here, consciously or not, by the decisions which we make.
I don't see anything mysterious or magical or unreasonable about that. Do
you?
<ANONYMOUS.30-Oct-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die?
DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:32:06
HOST: sverige
In response, belief is not required. Neither is understanding, faith, or
association with a religious order or any denomination. It's just sort of
the way it is. Our "state" at and after death is what we've made of it
while here, consciously or not, by the decisions which we make.
I don't see anything mysterious or magical or unreasonable about that. Do
you?
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die?
DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:39:38
HOST: sverige
> There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space,
Assumption
> or by natural or physical constraints.
Assumption
NOT assumption. Sorry you've missed out on it so far. Hopefully you'll
awaken to it sooner or later.
But I can't help with that; other than to assure you that it's there by my
experience whether you've found it or not. Like lots of things really.
<ANONYMOUS.30-Oct-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die?
DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:39:38
HOST: sverige
> There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space,
Assumption
> or by natural or physical constraints.
Assumption
NOT assumption. Sorry you've missed out on it so far. Hopefully you'll
awaken to it sooner or later.
But I can't help with that; other than to assure you that it's there by my
experience whether you've found it or not. Like lots of things really.
..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. proxy
DATE: 02-Mar-07 04:02:54
HOST: sverige
To clarify on Mike's suggestion, SSH forwarding provides a SOCKS proxy via
its builtin Dynamic port forwarding, so you don't need a dedicated HTTP
proxy.
Furthermore, by becoming MetaARPA, you're well positioned to use the
forthcoming VPN option for the same purpose.
<ARPA.02-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. proxy
DATE: 02-Mar-07 04:02:54
HOST: sverige
To clarify on Mike's suggestion, SSH forwarding provides a SOCKS proxy via
its builtin Dynamic port forwarding, so you don't need a dedicated HTTP
proxy.
Furthermore, by becoming MetaARPA, you're well positioned to use the
forthcoming VPN option for the same purpose.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. SVN vs CVS
DATE: 08-Aug-07 13:40:06
HOST: otaku
yargo cited the subversion FAQ: "> If you want to host a networked
repository, then you need to set up either Apache2 or an "svnserve" server.
and I focus on "a networked repository" ....
Without checking, I'd take this to refer to something all users, from any
remote locations, see as a single portal to a repository which is, behind
the portal, scattered around multiple remote networked locations, perhaps
with intentional redundancies.
And that a repsitory which was in one static location could service
multiple remote clients without a server.
I also anticipate setting up SVN after vacation next week.
avo
---
<ARPA.08-Aug-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. SVN vs CVS
DATE: 08-Aug-07 13:40:06
HOST: otaku
yargo cited the subversion FAQ: "> If you want to host a networked
repository, then you need to set up either Apache2 or an "svnserve" server.
and I focus on "a networked repository" ....
Without checking, I'd take this to refer to something all users, from any
remote locations, see as a single portal to a repository which is, behind
the portal, scattered around multiple remote networked locations, perhaps
with intentional redundancies.
And that a repsitory which was in one static location could service
multiple remote clients without a server.
I also anticipate setting up SVN after vacation next week.
avo
---
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. ssh tunnel question for MetaARPA
DATE: 12-Mar-07 03:31:45
HOST: sverige
Marshall,
Your depiction is technically possible. However, with regard to using SDF
for this purpose, you'll note the need to open a listening port on the SDF
host (which would be tunnelled back to your home system where you might
have say sshd listening and prepared to authenticate.
It's this need for a listening port which indicates that a "server"
membership level at SDF would be appropriate for this application. It might
be possible to restrict that "listening port" to SDF's localhost interface;
so it wouldn't really be public, but it would be accessible to anyone else
on that SDF host. There is some prior discussion of this in the bboard
archives.
The forthcoming VPN facility may work for you also, by providing a route to
your home system via a VPN connection established from home. In this case,
and the case of a Remote port forward via SSH which listens only on SDF
localhost, you'd access your home system from your SDF login.
There is one authority empowered to negotiate this with you, and it ain't
me ;-}
<ARPA.12-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. ssh tunnel question for MetaARPA
DATE: 12-Mar-07 03:31:45
HOST: sverige
Marshall,
Your depiction is technically possible. However, with regard to using SDF
for this purpose, you'll note the need to open a listening port on the SDF
host (which would be tunnelled back to your home system where you might
have say sshd listening and prepared to authenticate.
It's this need for a listening port which indicates that a "server"
membership level at SDF would be appropriate for this application. It might
be possible to restrict that "listening port" to SDF's localhost interface;
so it wouldn't really be public, but it would be accessible to anyone else
on that SDF host. There is some prior discussion of this in the bboard
archives.
The forthcoming VPN facility may work for you also, by providing a route to
your home system via a VPN connection established from home. In this case,
and the case of a Remote port forward via SSH which listens only on SDF
localhost, you'd access your home system from your SDF login.
There is one authority empowered to negotiate this with you, and it ain't
me ;-}
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Abuse by the user 'barneye'
DATE: 12-Apr-07 13:00:22
HOST: sverige
Setting up a new process, and not checking on it, is a mistake; a
punishable mistake when that mistake has a negative impact upon SDF or its
users. I can't imagine anybody disputing that, regardless of how innocent
or malicious the mistake.
If the mistake was implemented in such a way as to put SDF in a position of
abusing other sites, termination should be immediate. If damage was
localized and not severe, a warning would be appropriate.
<ARPA.12-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Abuse by the user 'barneye'
DATE: 12-Apr-07 13:00:22
HOST: sverige
Setting up a new process, and not checking on it, is a mistake; a
punishable mistake when that mistake has a negative impact upon SDF or its
users. I can't imagine anybody disputing that, regardless of how innocent
or malicious the mistake.
If the mistake was implemented in such a way as to put SDF in a position of
abusing other sites, termination should be immediate. If damage was
localized and not severe, a warning would be appropriate.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Abuse by the user 'barneye'
DATE: 13-Apr-07 13:09:30
HOST: sverige
But is he really a he, or really 30, or really a computer sci grad, or
really a lawyer?
Aren't these just unsubstantiated claims from a person who has quite
recently demonstrated a lack of trust worthiness?
<ARPA.13-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Abuse by the user 'barneye'
DATE: 13-Apr-07 13:09:30
HOST: sverige
But is he really a he, or really 30, or really a computer sci grad, or
really a lawyer?
Aren't these just unsubstantiated claims from a person who has quite
recently demonstrated a lack of trust worthiness?
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. MetaARPA 'referral' perks?
DATE: 15-May-07 12:30:53
HOST: sverige
I'm right there with what Jeff said earlier about incentive being not
needed. Additionally, it "feels cheap" to me. Members should be comfortably
talking about and recommending SDF quite naturally from their enthusiasm
and from their wish for SDF to prosper; not for some "bonus reward".
I'd be neutral on the matter, as in let others use it but I won't; but
seriously I feel it cheapens the community.
But then, I have never ever in my long life been representative of any
majority.
<ARPA.15-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. MetaARPA 'referral' perks?
DATE: 15-May-07 12:30:53
HOST: sverige
I'm right there with what Jeff said earlier about incentive being not
needed. Additionally, it "feels cheap" to me. Members should be comfortably
talking about and recommending SDF quite naturally from their enthusiasm
and from their wish for SDF to prosper; not for some "bonus reward".
I'd be neutral on the matter, as in let others use it but I won't; but
seriously I feel it cheapens the community.
But then, I have never ever in my long life been representative of any
majority.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. new thread (vpn) as requested
DATE: 18-Feb-07 13:14:44
HOST: sverige
Hi Mike,
Are you the legendary Bears linebacker? <g>
I have a clear understanding of the use and operations of SSH and VPN from
the perspective of user function and setup, and can see where one provides
benefits not available in the other. And I'm pretty strong in the technical
underpinnings of each, maintaining both client and server hosts for my own
purposes.
Two important commonalities between the two are that:
-- encryption exists only between the client and SSH/VPN host, not all the
way to client's remote server;
-- features available to the client user are controlled by the SSH/VPN
host; for instance, you can't run HTTP thru a VPN or SSH host which doesn't
provide a proxy for continuing the connection.
You can SSH thru a proxyless SSH server to a remote proxy, but there is no
encryption on that second leg.
VPN allows access to only those services which are made available on the
VPN host interface.
As to the technical details of a VPN client, I understand that a virtual
(NIC) device is required, which is integrated in the standard way as an
interface (ifconfig) with a local (RFC 1918) IP; and that optionally, any
standard IP routing can be set up to use that interface. This is quite the
same thing as happens with dial-up and dsl/cable pppoe connection setup.
The part which I do not understand, is how the VPN client software
establishes the connection from the new virtual interface, across the
existing internet connection, to the authenticating VPN server. For this I
rely upon tools and documentation available for that specific piece of
third-party software; and I depend upon that softare working properly with
the constraints available to it from the OS.
Getting clients and servers to function together usefully was very straight
forward with SSH and with OpenVPN, and both are working like a charm.
This has not been my experience with pptp/meep and while I keep working at
it the reasonable question persists, "Why would I choose this over
OpenVPN/TLS, even if I can get it working?"
<ARPA.18-Feb-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. new thread (vpn) as requested
DATE: 18-Feb-07 13:14:44
HOST: sverige
Hi Mike,
Are you the legendary Bears linebacker? <g>
I have a clear understanding of the use and operations of SSH and VPN from
the perspective of user function and setup, and can see where one provides
benefits not available in the other. And I'm pretty strong in the technical
underpinnings of each, maintaining both client and server hosts for my own
purposes.
Two important commonalities between the two are that:
-- encryption exists only between the client and SSH/VPN host, not all the
way to client's remote server;
-- features available to the client user are controlled by the SSH/VPN
host; for instance, you can't run HTTP thru a VPN or SSH host which doesn't
provide a proxy for continuing the connection.
You can SSH thru a proxyless SSH server to a remote proxy, but there is no
encryption on that second leg.
VPN allows access to only those services which are made available on the
VPN host interface.
As to the technical details of a VPN client, I understand that a virtual
(NIC) device is required, which is integrated in the standard way as an
interface (ifconfig) with a local (RFC 1918) IP; and that optionally, any
standard IP routing can be set up to use that interface. This is quite the
same thing as happens with dial-up and dsl/cable pppoe connection setup.
The part which I do not understand, is how the VPN client software
establishes the connection from the new virtual interface, across the
existing internet connection, to the authenticating VPN server. For this I
rely upon tools and documentation available for that specific piece of
third-party software; and I depend upon that softare working properly with
the constraints available to it from the OS.
Getting clients and servers to function together usefully was very straight
forward with SSH and with OpenVPN, and both are working like a charm.
This has not been my experience with pptp/meep and while I keep working at
it the reasonable question persists, "Why would I choose this over
OpenVPN/TLS, even if I can get it working?"
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. FTP access for validated members
DATE: 19-Nov-06 18:54:30
HOST: sverige
"I believe that bad things can also be done using e-mail for upload and
http for download, if somebody tries to infect other machines;"
I agree.
"so I do not currently see a security advantage in excluding 'users' from
FTP"
There's something of a security advantage in NOT trasmitting login:pass in
cleartext from who-knows-where.
Email to the 'user' group may have size limitation which reduces that
overload potential, and threat ??
<ARPA.19-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. FTP access for validated members
DATE: 19-Nov-06 18:54:30
HOST: sverige
"I believe that bad things can also be done using e-mail for upload and
http for download, if somebody tries to infect other machines;"
I agree.
"so I do not currently see a security advantage in excluding 'users' from
FTP"
There's something of a security advantage in NOT trasmitting login:pass in
cleartext from who-knows-where.
Email to the 'user' group may have size limitation which reduces that
overload potential, and threat ??
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Two things are clear
DATE: 22-Oct-06 03:31:12
HOST: sverige
we all are
<ARPA.22-Oct-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Two things are clear
DATE: 22-Oct-06 03:31:12
HOST: sverige
we all are
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Mail Spool Disappeared
DATE: 22-Mar-07 01:16:29
HOST: sverige
just double checking, ......
if the "disappearance" was from /var/mail/ it might be found in $HOME/ ....
mbox or Maildir for instance
<ARPA.22-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Mail Spool Disappeared
DATE: 22-Mar-07 01:16:29
HOST: sverige
just double checking, ......
if the "disappearance" was from /var/mail/ it might be found in $HOME/ ....
mbox or Maildir for instance
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. ARPA member shell preference
DATE: 24-Jul-07 23:03:34
HOST: sverige
Let's look at this statement more closely.
"The Korn Shell rules. Is that because it's a great shell, or just because
it's the default?"
This is SDF, where smj rules.
Where smj rules, and selects the default shell, wouldn't it be a great one?
So, ... Because it is a great shell, the [smj] ruler assigned it as the
default.
Note that some disagree :)
Peace,
avo
---
<ARPA.24-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. ARPA member shell preference
DATE: 24-Jul-07 23:03:34
HOST: sverige
Let's look at this statement more closely.
"The Korn Shell rules. Is that because it's a great shell, or just because
it's the default?"
This is SDF, where smj rules.
Where smj rules, and selects the default shell, wouldn't it be a great one?
So, ... Because it is a great shell, the [smj] ruler assigned it as the
default.
Note that some disagree :)
Peace,
avo
---
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Voting Theory
DATE: 01-Mar-07 04:14:25
HOST: sverige
I'm delighted to see another Condorcet advocate. Here's a couple relevant
links I've been holding ...
http://www.genarts.com/karl/second-choice-voting.html
http://www.electionmethods.org/
The second originally contained a great discussion on different methods,
and their comparative strengths and weaknesses, and I think at some point,
and perhaps even currently, a working example using a prototype of the
current interface.
<ARPA.01-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Voting Theory
DATE: 01-Mar-07 04:14:25
HOST: sverige
I'm delighted to see another Condorcet advocate. Here's a couple relevant
links I've been holding ...
http://www.genarts.com/karl/second-choice-voting.html
http://www.electionmethods.org/
The second originally contained a great discussion on different methods,
and their comparative strengths and weaknesses, and I think at some point,
and perhaps even currently, a working example using a prototype of the
current interface.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. The night sky
DATE: 03-Nov-07 18:37:47
HOST: sverige
some resources ...
Astronomy: [79]daily .. [80]weekly [[81]alt] .. [82]monthly calendars;
.. [83]PDF Maps .. [84]StarDate ;
79.
http://www.earthsky.com/Features/Skywatching/
80.
http://skyandtelescope.com/observing/ataglance/
81.
http://www.usno.navy.mil/pao/sky/sky_week.shtml
82.
http://www.pa.msu.edu/abrams/SkyWatchersDiary/Diary.html
83.
http://skymaps.com/downloads.html
84.
http://stardate.utexas.edu/
<ASTRONOMY.03-Nov-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. The night sky
DATE: 03-Nov-07 18:37:47
HOST: sverige
some resources ...
Astronomy: [79]daily .. [80]weekly [[81]alt] .. [82]monthly calendars;
.. [83]PDF Maps .. [84]StarDate ;
79.
http://www.earthsky.com/Features/Skywatching/
80.
http://skyandtelescope.com/observing/ataglance/
81.
http://www.usno.navy.mil/pao/sky/sky_week.shtml
82.
http://www.pa.msu.edu/abrams/SkyWatchersDiary/Diary.html
83.
http://skymaps.com/downloads.html
84.
http://stardate.utexas.edu/
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists"
DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:15:19
HOST: sverige
Stephen,
You may have too few generalized categories there :)
In particular, I'd urge you to realize that much if not most of what goes
on around this planet as "spirituality" is nowhere near "extreme". It is in
fact supra-peaceful and very much out of your face.
The loudest group in any discussion is almost always domniated by political
zealots whose only "religion" is to conform others into their personal
worldview, using whichever tools and exploitations they find convenient.
The so called "religious right" is the grandest conveniency for them, in
part because it matches their model for hypocrisy. Claiming to believe in
Jesus conveniently makes Muslims and Jews to be "evil", while anything
having to do with peace, goodwill, and brotherhood is appropriated to
themselves alone, NOT to be shared with others or spread across the
community of any size greater than their close circle of benefactors.
So, the problem I have with your categorizations is that the group labelled
as Religious/Spiritual Extremists really have no spirituality or religion
at all, other than self-engrandizement. Their only deity is material
possession, collective power over others, and self-glorification.
(as can be plainly seen) <w>
Now as it happens I have an uncle who has become immersed in the
pseudo-theology of the "religious right", and as far as he can see, that
group I just described can do no wrong; and to him only they, and himself
an his ilk, have been somehow or another "saved" while the rest of us
aren't worth a pot to spit in. He used to teach math and science; but he
wouldn't let his daughters date in high school.
These are the group which your pseudo-rational atheists choose to confront.
And I don't know why they bother; they're just as delusioned and
hypocritical and self-serving as their targets, claiming "science" as their
"religion" while cherry-picking the facts and taking no account whatsoever
of the errors within their observation and analyses.
(as can be less plainly seen) <w>
That said, I certainly do appreciate your bringing it up. It's a good
start, and I trust that someone will take this discussion to the next step.
-
avo
<BITCH.03-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists"
DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:15:19
HOST: sverige
Stephen,
You may have too few generalized categories there :)
In particular, I'd urge you to realize that much if not most of what goes
on around this planet as "spirituality" is nowhere near "extreme". It is in
fact supra-peaceful and very much out of your face.
The loudest group in any discussion is almost always domniated by political
zealots whose only "religion" is to conform others into their personal
worldview, using whichever tools and exploitations they find convenient.
The so called "religious right" is the grandest conveniency for them, in
part because it matches their model for hypocrisy. Claiming to believe in
Jesus conveniently makes Muslims and Jews to be "evil", while anything
having to do with peace, goodwill, and brotherhood is appropriated to
themselves alone, NOT to be shared with others or spread across the
community of any size greater than their close circle of benefactors.
So, the problem I have with your categorizations is that the group labelled
as Religious/Spiritual Extremists really have no spirituality or religion
at all, other than self-engrandizement. Their only deity is material
possession, collective power over others, and self-glorification.
(as can be plainly seen) <w>
Now as it happens I have an uncle who has become immersed in the
pseudo-theology of the "religious right", and as far as he can see, that
group I just described can do no wrong; and to him only they, and himself
an his ilk, have been somehow or another "saved" while the rest of us
aren't worth a pot to spit in. He used to teach math and science; but he
wouldn't let his daughters date in high school.
These are the group which your pseudo-rational atheists choose to confront.
And I don't know why they bother; they're just as delusioned and
hypocritical and self-serving as their targets, claiming "science" as their
"religion" while cherry-picking the facts and taking no account whatsoever
of the errors within their observation and analyses.
(as can be less plainly seen) <w>
That said, I certainly do appreciate your bringing it up. It's a good
start, and I trust that someone will take this discussion to the next step.
-
avo
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists"
DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:44:21
HOST: sverige
"Do the extremists realise that experience doesn't indicate truth?"
Well now, if there is any such thing as pure truth at all, wouldn't it be
experience itself?
Do you accept truths which you don't experience?
How can experience by anything other than truth? Even illusion is itself a
truth.
The fact that you saw the man swallow the flaming sword is true. The
notion that the man did in fact swallow the flaming sword is a derivation,
an appearance, an illusion, whatever you want to call it; but it is true
that that is what you saw; and it is not appropriate for others to deny
that; or for others to conclude that because it was your experience then
the even was false or not truth. Heisenberg pointed that out long ago.
As to whether or not this whole consideration even merits anyones efforts,
it could be noted that it has done so across all civilizations across all
time; and it doesn't show any likely sign of ceasing.
Carl Jung went around the globe studying the human psyche. He discovered a
human concept of something beyond itself everywhere. But you know, folks
can get full blown phD doctorates and degrees in psychology without ever
having to read anything Jung wrote. That's like a degree in U.S. history
without ever knowing about the Vietnam war and Richard Nixon.
The study of mythology is enjoyable and rewarding; and integral to any
study of the development of civilization.
Now, but not earlier, the sciences of psychology and philosophy are
accepted; and it is acknowledged that as humans we have a psychology and a
philosophy, whether we're conscious of it or not.
I maintain, from research, consdieration, discussion, and experience, that
we also have a theology operative within us as well. But then, not
everybody has the time or attention to bring to bear on such presumably
remote considerations.
After all, the grain farmer hardly concerns himself with the plight of the
manatees. To him, they don't exist. Period.
-
avo
<BITCH.03-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists"
DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:44:21
HOST: sverige
"Do the extremists realise that experience doesn't indicate truth?"
Well now, if there is any such thing as pure truth at all, wouldn't it be
experience itself?
Do you accept truths which you don't experience?
How can experience by anything other than truth? Even illusion is itself a
truth.
The fact that you saw the man swallow the flaming sword is true. The
notion that the man did in fact swallow the flaming sword is a derivation,
an appearance, an illusion, whatever you want to call it; but it is true
that that is what you saw; and it is not appropriate for others to deny
that; or for others to conclude that because it was your experience then
the even was false or not truth. Heisenberg pointed that out long ago.
As to whether or not this whole consideration even merits anyones efforts,
it could be noted that it has done so across all civilizations across all
time; and it doesn't show any likely sign of ceasing.
Carl Jung went around the globe studying the human psyche. He discovered a
human concept of something beyond itself everywhere. But you know, folks
can get full blown phD doctorates and degrees in psychology without ever
having to read anything Jung wrote. That's like a degree in U.S. history
without ever knowing about the Vietnam war and Richard Nixon.
The study of mythology is enjoyable and rewarding; and integral to any
study of the development of civilization.
Now, but not earlier, the sciences of psychology and philosophy are
accepted; and it is acknowledged that as humans we have a psychology and a
philosophy, whether we're conscious of it or not.
I maintain, from research, consdieration, discussion, and experience, that
we also have a theology operative within us as well. But then, not
everybody has the time or attention to bring to bear on such presumably
remote considerations.
After all, the grain farmer hardly concerns himself with the plight of the
manatees. To him, they don't exist. Period.
-
avo
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists"
DATE: 04-Nov-06 02:31:19
HOST: sverige
Nice points, gentlemen. Thank you. One of the other fascinating values of
experience observed in this context is that it (the diversity of
experience, or 'they' (the diverse experiences themselves), show us
something of the error inherent in our own observations.
If you see it as blue, while I see it as green, then my understanding of
its color has a measured 50% uncertainty.
Grand stuff, knowing how wrong we are. I couldn't live without it.
And, since "you can't prove a negative", positions that "there is not a
God" are pretty ridiculous indeed.
Eh.
<BITCH.04-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists"
DATE: 04-Nov-06 02:31:19
HOST: sverige
Nice points, gentlemen. Thank you. One of the other fascinating values of
experience observed in this context is that it (the diversity of
experience, or 'they' (the diverse experiences themselves), show us
something of the error inherent in our own observations.
If you see it as blue, while I see it as green, then my understanding of
its color has a measured 50% uncertainty.
Grand stuff, knowing how wrong we are. I couldn't live without it.
And, since "you can't prove a negative", positions that "there is not a
God" are pretty ridiculous indeed.
Eh.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists"
DATE: 04-Nov-06 12:41:36
HOST: sverige
Thanks Stephen. I'll clarify further.
Believing IS subjective. And it's both fine and reasonable to not have a
belief in a God. It's a different thing to take an active belief that a God
does not exist. That position has a high degree of uncertainty, measured by
the observations of any random sample; whereas by the same measure of
uncertainty, a belief that a God does exist has a lower degree of
uncertainty.
To state any negative (such as there is no God, or no life on other
planets) as a fact or truth, is ...um... ridiculous? especially if it's
wrapped in the flag of "science says so".
<BITCH.04-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists"
DATE: 04-Nov-06 12:41:36
HOST: sverige
Thanks Stephen. I'll clarify further.
Believing IS subjective. And it's both fine and reasonable to not have a
belief in a God. It's a different thing to take an active belief that a God
does not exist. That position has a high degree of uncertainty, measured by
the observations of any random sample; whereas by the same measure of
uncertainty, a belief that a God does exist has a lower degree of
uncertainty.
To state any negative (such as there is no God, or no life on other
planets) as a fact or truth, is ...um... ridiculous? especially if it's
wrapped in the flag of "science says so".
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Firefox and SourceForge
DATE: 05-Nov-07 12:14:00
HOST: sverige
and <twitch> with privoxy.org
<BITCH.05-Nov-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Firefox and SourceForge
DATE: 05-Nov-07 12:14:00
HOST: sverige
and <twitch> with privoxy.org
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Spam??
DATE: 23-Oct-06 01:58:17
HOST: sverige
noting that JunkMail (postal) pays for its transportation to your door,
while Spam (email) steals its transportation services from others.
<BITCH.23-Oct-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Spam??
DATE: 23-Oct-06 01:58:17
HOST: sverige
noting that JunkMail (postal) pays for its transportation to your door,
while Spam (email) steals its transportation services from others.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Blingest bash
DATE: 13-Jul-07 19:24:01
HOST: sverige
Reganomic "dribble-on" has been thoroughly discredited before, and during,
his unfortnate stint at the top.
His pathetic sheeple didn't notice however because their sole sources of
authoritative information is the likes of O'Reilly, Hannity, and Limbaugh.
(speaking of lifestyle)
<BITCH.13-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Blingest bash
DATE: 13-Jul-07 19:24:01
HOST: sverige
Reganomic "dribble-on" has been thoroughly discredited before, and during,
his unfortnate stint at the top.
His pathetic sheeple didn't notice however because their sole sources of
authoritative information is the likes of O'Reilly, Hannity, and Limbaugh.
(speaking of lifestyle)
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Phrase
DATE: 11-Dec-06 03:27:04
HOST: sverige
CNN, and its ilk, are poisonous to the mind, and to the understanding, and
to a genuine perspective of the most really important issues.
<BITCH.11-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Phrase
DATE: 11-Dec-06 03:27:04
HOST: sverige
CNN, and its ilk, are poisonous to the mind, and to the understanding, and
to a genuine perspective of the most really important issues.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Budget, Priorities
DATE: 11-May-07 20:51:36
HOST: sverige
The Department of Warfare Intrusion and Invasion puts much of that money
back into the greedy pockets of politicians via personal and campaign
contributions from its contractors and mercenaries.
They don't even pretend any longer to be auditable.
<BITCH.11-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Budget, Priorities
DATE: 11-May-07 20:51:36
HOST: sverige
The Department of Warfare Intrusion and Invasion puts much of that money
back into the greedy pockets of politicians via personal and campaign
contributions from its contractors and mercenaries.
They don't even pretend any longer to be auditable.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. code bloat
DATE: 19-Mar-07 13:27:54
HOST: sverige
Commented configuration files are pretty nice for the first time encounter.
It's not too hard to delete the comments when you're done with them.
As to "code bloat", I used to code for the HP-41 calculator. Memory, speed,
and storage all at severe minimums. In those days TBBS author Phil Becker
coded up TBBS to handle 32 simultaneous dialin connections to DOS on a 386,
but if I got my story straight, he formerly wrote code which communicated
with and controlled satellites.
Microsoft had a great deal of unpopularity back then too :)
(since Billy took the DOS source from the back of somebody else's truck)
<BITCH.19-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. code bloat
DATE: 19-Mar-07 13:27:54
HOST: sverige
Commented configuration files are pretty nice for the first time encounter.
It's not too hard to delete the comments when you're done with them.
As to "code bloat", I used to code for the HP-41 calculator. Memory, speed,
and storage all at severe minimums. In those days TBBS author Phil Becker
coded up TBBS to handle 32 simultaneous dialin connections to DOS on a 386,
but if I got my story straight, he formerly wrote code which communicated
with and controlled satellites.
Microsoft had a great deal of unpopularity back then too :)
(since Billy took the DOS source from the back of somebody else's truck)
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 16-May-07 13:51:09
HOST: sverige
The problem isn't reality, barnacle, it's capitalism :)
Those without money work their tails off to make payments into the
financial system in the form of interest payments and insurance premiums
which are collected by those with money who are on vacation someplace.
And the gap ever widens, as ownership and capital become centralized far
from local grasp. America isn't "spreading democracy". It's creating, and
exploiting "markets" by which is meant slaves of capital, both exploited
consumers and exploited producers.
Stop by your local bank and observe the vast difference between the
interest they'll pay to you for using your money, and the interest they'll
charge you for using theirs.
<BITCH.16-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 16-May-07 13:51:09
HOST: sverige
The problem isn't reality, barnacle, it's capitalism :)
Those without money work their tails off to make payments into the
financial system in the form of interest payments and insurance premiums
which are collected by those with money who are on vacation someplace.
And the gap ever widens, as ownership and capital become centralized far
from local grasp. America isn't "spreading democracy". It's creating, and
exploiting "markets" by which is meant slaves of capital, both exploited
consumers and exploited producers.
Stop by your local bank and observe the vast difference between the
interest they'll pay to you for using your money, and the interest they'll
charge you for using theirs.
TACKER: davek (David Kettler)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 16-May-07 17:33:12
HOST: sverige
The problem isn't capitalism, it's inheritance.
If somebody works hard, becomes successful, and lives a life of luxury then
I have absolutely no problem with that. It's when they pass that wealth on
to their kids who never worked a day in their lives that it becomes an
issue. Everyone should be given the same opportunities, but what they make
of them is up to them.
The wealth gap between the richest and poorest people is FAR larger than
the income gap. Why is that? Wealth begets more wealth (interest,
investing) while expenditures tend to increase slower than income. This
means that once your income is past a certain level, wealth just
accumulates and accumulates. It's positive feedback.
On another note, avoyager, your example of the bank is pretty nonsensical
if you understand how banks work.
<BITCH.16-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: davek (David Kettler)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 16-May-07 17:33:12
HOST: sverige
The problem isn't capitalism, it's inheritance.
If somebody works hard, becomes successful, and lives a life of luxury then
I have absolutely no problem with that. It's when they pass that wealth on
to their kids who never worked a day in their lives that it becomes an
issue. Everyone should be given the same opportunities, but what they make
of them is up to them.
The wealth gap between the richest and poorest people is FAR larger than
the income gap. Why is that? Wealth begets more wealth (interest,
investing) while expenditures tend to increase slower than income. This
means that once your income is past a certain level, wealth just
accumulates and accumulates. It's positive feedback.
On another note, avoyager, your example of the bank is pretty nonsensical
if you understand how banks work.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 16-May-07 20:39:47
HOST: sverige
Oh, I understand how banks work. That's pretty simple. It's basic
predation.
It's the securities and derivatives market you have to watch out for.
<BITCH.16-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 16-May-07 20:39:47
HOST: sverige
Oh, I understand how banks work. That's pretty simple. It's basic
predation.
It's the securities and derivatives market you have to watch out for.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 17-May-07 11:44:16
HOST: sverige
Folks bash Socialism without understanding what it is because they've been
brainwashed into thinking it is the evil opposite of their personal wealth,
health, and well-being.
It's part of the "with us or against us" lack of mentality promulgated for
the purpose of creating clear and hard divisions amongst the people who
would otherwise unite against the burgeoning police state presently out to
ruin, but rule, the planet.
It denies all evidence that chains, teams, communities, societies, and
civilizations are only as strong as their weakest link.
Democracy used to have the same primary goal of Socialism, to let the
people form and control a government for the purpose of cooperatively
providing for the common welfare, just like it says in the preamble of the
U.S. Constitution.
To that end, corporations and economies were established to serve these
common purposes. Capitalism makes a fine economic model as long as it is in
service to the governance model. As a model of governance, socialism and
democracy have much in common.
In the U.S. things got out of hand back when corporations were tolerated as
having the same rights as individuals. By now, the U.S. government is but a
farce of its original democracy; being wholly controlled by the corporate
mandate of greed and exploitation to the sole end of short term profits for
shareholders.
Socialism seeks to restore democracy, and decency, to a government by and
for the people. It would certainly remove the current policy of
redistributing wealth from the many into the corruption of the few; but it
wouldn't cast the industry barrons into slums and poverty.
The revolution is ineviatable. Hence the burgeoning police state, but even
that cannot suppress a complete collapse of the flawed structure.
Oh, the oh.so.precious.dollar. ... poof.
<BITCH.17-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 17-May-07 11:44:16
HOST: sverige
Folks bash Socialism without understanding what it is because they've been
brainwashed into thinking it is the evil opposite of their personal wealth,
health, and well-being.
It's part of the "with us or against us" lack of mentality promulgated for
the purpose of creating clear and hard divisions amongst the people who
would otherwise unite against the burgeoning police state presently out to
ruin, but rule, the planet.
It denies all evidence that chains, teams, communities, societies, and
civilizations are only as strong as their weakest link.
Democracy used to have the same primary goal of Socialism, to let the
people form and control a government for the purpose of cooperatively
providing for the common welfare, just like it says in the preamble of the
U.S. Constitution.
To that end, corporations and economies were established to serve these
common purposes. Capitalism makes a fine economic model as long as it is in
service to the governance model. As a model of governance, socialism and
democracy have much in common.
In the U.S. things got out of hand back when corporations were tolerated as
having the same rights as individuals. By now, the U.S. government is but a
farce of its original democracy; being wholly controlled by the corporate
mandate of greed and exploitation to the sole end of short term profits for
shareholders.
Socialism seeks to restore democracy, and decency, to a government by and
for the people. It would certainly remove the current policy of
redistributing wealth from the many into the corruption of the few; but it
wouldn't cast the industry barrons into slums and poverty.
The revolution is ineviatable. Hence the burgeoning police state, but even
that cannot suppress a complete collapse of the flawed structure.
Oh, the oh.so.precious.dollar. ... poof.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 20-May-07 12:51:31
HOST: sverige
Well stated, Gavin. Thank you.
Robin: "Now, if you have the brains or the tallent you will be rewarded."
This just is not true at all with regard to financial reward. There are
LOTS of brains and talent struggling to grasp a middle-class life style all
over the world. Many of them have LOTS more brain and talent than the folks
with the money and the folks with the power positions.
It used to be that any "average" American could get a decent job in public
service or with one of the utility companies, or other locally owned
enterprise, make just enough to save a little and still take vacations,
raise a family on a single income, have decent health care, and retire
modestly but gracefully.
Those "above-average" types, who also wanted and chose and had sufficient
opportunity not generally available to others, could get some more
education and "hang their shingle" as a professional; and do slightly
better.
There WAS a HUGE middle class which is rapidly eroding from both ends. And
what's left of it requires two incomes to the family, restricted health
care, reduced savings and vacation, and almost no job security at all any
more.
Those who are eroded upward, into more money, generally do so without any
special brains or talent or even hard work. They get lucky like in the
stock market, or they get priviledge handed to them, like inside traders,
or start with enough money to double it quickly on some venture which only
required money, not brains or talent or work.
<BITCH.20-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 20-May-07 12:51:31
HOST: sverige
Well stated, Gavin. Thank you.
Robin: "Now, if you have the brains or the tallent you will be rewarded."
This just is not true at all with regard to financial reward. There are
LOTS of brains and talent struggling to grasp a middle-class life style all
over the world. Many of them have LOTS more brain and talent than the folks
with the money and the folks with the power positions.
It used to be that any "average" American could get a decent job in public
service or with one of the utility companies, or other locally owned
enterprise, make just enough to save a little and still take vacations,
raise a family on a single income, have decent health care, and retire
modestly but gracefully.
Those "above-average" types, who also wanted and chose and had sufficient
opportunity not generally available to others, could get some more
education and "hang their shingle" as a professional; and do slightly
better.
There WAS a HUGE middle class which is rapidly eroding from both ends. And
what's left of it requires two incomes to the family, restricted health
care, reduced savings and vacation, and almost no job security at all any
more.
Those who are eroded upward, into more money, generally do so without any
special brains or talent or even hard work. They get lucky like in the
stock market, or they get priviledge handed to them, like inside traders,
or start with enough money to double it quickly on some venture which only
required money, not brains or talent or work.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 21-May-07 12:16:28
HOST: sverige
"There is nothing wrong with ... as long as you stay legal."
The legal system is a very poor definer and regulator of morality and
social good. It's purposes are more to define what is punishable by the
State, rather than by what is the best course of action in general or in
particular.
"The rich spend money"
Yeah! Like on "America's Cup" teams; and like at a rate exceeding 200
million dollars a DAY infesting foreign countries and cultures; and on
replacing local economies with Wal-Marts in order to not fall out of the
"top ten richest families". And who-know-what the pharmaceutical industry
in the US pays out in supporting commercial television and
buying/influencing the mainstream media to call the infestation a "war" of
all things. And of course on electing politicians who will increase their
personal wealth at any cost.
"There is a need for taxes as there are inherent governmental functions"
And THAT is the crux of the issue, the definition and application of
"inherent government function". Should the government be funcitioning to
serve the common interests of its people as a whole, or only the interests
of wealthy campaign-contributing corporate mandate for greed and
exploitation?
"Universal health care" as presently implmented in different countries has
exposed some of its weaknesses in implmentation, and maybe in policy. The
proper course of action is to improve it, not discard it, at this point.
You don't cut off your leg or kill yourself when you sprain an ankle.
"The problem with health insurance" is that it isn't in the business of
providing health care. It's in the business of increasing costs for and
taking money from everybody including the health care providers and
institutions. It is the "man in the middle" attack.
"prevent abuse of the system"
From what I see, "the market" and "market forces" have created far more
problems than solutions. People fear "abuse of the system" as if everybody
is going to shut down and only pull from, without contributing to, the
general fund. That's ridiculous thinking, especially from those who are
supposed to understand economic systems. It is wealth which abuses the
system, not poverty or a happy peaceful wholesome healthy middle class.
Mankind's most important achievements have been initiated and propelled by
human need and imagination, not profit motive; and certainly not short term
gain at long term wide spread expense as a willful decision.
<BITCH.21-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality
DATE: 21-May-07 12:16:28
HOST: sverige
"There is nothing wrong with ... as long as you stay legal."
The legal system is a very poor definer and regulator of morality and
social good. It's purposes are more to define what is punishable by the
State, rather than by what is the best course of action in general or in
particular.
"The rich spend money"
Yeah! Like on "America's Cup" teams; and like at a rate exceeding 200
million dollars a DAY infesting foreign countries and cultures; and on
replacing local economies with Wal-Marts in order to not fall out of the
"top ten richest families". And who-know-what the pharmaceutical industry
in the US pays out in supporting commercial television and
buying/influencing the mainstream media to call the infestation a "war" of
all things. And of course on electing politicians who will increase their
personal wealth at any cost.
"There is a need for taxes as there are inherent governmental functions"
And THAT is the crux of the issue, the definition and application of
"inherent government function". Should the government be funcitioning to
serve the common interests of its people as a whole, or only the interests
of wealthy campaign-contributing corporate mandate for greed and
exploitation?
"Universal health care" as presently implmented in different countries has
exposed some of its weaknesses in implmentation, and maybe in policy. The
proper course of action is to improve it, not discard it, at this point.
You don't cut off your leg or kill yourself when you sprain an ankle.
"The problem with health insurance" is that it isn't in the business of
providing health care. It's in the business of increasing costs for and
taking money from everybody including the health care providers and
institutions. It is the "man in the middle" attack.
"prevent abuse of the system"
From what I see, "the market" and "market forces" have created far more
problems than solutions. People fear "abuse of the system" as if everybody
is going to shut down and only pull from, without contributing to, the
general fund. That's ridiculous thinking, especially from those who are
supposed to understand economic systems. It is wealth which abuses the
system, not poverty or a happy peaceful wholesome healthy middle class.
Mankind's most important achievements have been initiated and propelled by
human need and imagination, not profit motive; and certainly not short term
gain at long term wide spread expense as a willful decision.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Frames
DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:22:39
HOST: sverige
or even different font sizes and screen resolutions; Some sites deal with
these issues by coding specifically for a full-screen window, something I
normally never use.
<BITCH.20-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Frames
DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:22:39
HOST: sverige
or even different font sizes and screen resolutions; Some sites deal with
these issues by coding specifically for a full-screen window, something I
normally never use.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the money
DATE: 20-May-07 20:49:56
HOST: sverige
Pedro, I have nothing against rich people; they're some of my best
clients.
A better word than "exchanged" would be "transferred". It is what I had in
mind.
"Manufactured", in the case of paper money, would be "printed". Is there
semi-permanent fixed quantity of dollar equivalent liquid asset on the
planet?
<BITCH.20-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the money
DATE: 20-May-07 20:49:56
HOST: sverige
Pedro, I have nothing against rich people; they're some of my best
clients.
A better word than "exchanged" would be "transferred". It is what I had in
mind.
"Manufactured", in the case of paper money, would be "printed". Is there
semi-permanent fixed quantity of dollar equivalent liquid asset on the
planet?
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the money
DATE: 21-May-07 12:29:45
HOST: sverige
From what I see, "the market" and "market forces" have created far more
problems than solutions. People fear "abuse of the system" as if everybody
is going to shut down and only pull from, without contributing to, the
general fund. That's ridiculous thinking, especially from those who purport
to understand economic systems. It is wealth which abuses the system, not
poverty or a happy peaceful wholesome healthy middle class.
Mankind's most important achievements have been initiated and propelled by
human need and imagination, not profit motive; and certainly not short term
gain at long term wide spread expense as a willful decision.
Though that natural and inherent drive to create a better life can be
manipulated with things like tax codes and other artificial
reward/punishment mandates.
<BITCH.21-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the money
DATE: 21-May-07 12:29:45
HOST: sverige
From what I see, "the market" and "market forces" have created far more
problems than solutions. People fear "abuse of the system" as if everybody
is going to shut down and only pull from, without contributing to, the
general fund. That's ridiculous thinking, especially from those who purport
to understand economic systems. It is wealth which abuses the system, not
poverty or a happy peaceful wholesome healthy middle class.
Mankind's most important achievements have been initiated and propelled by
human need and imagination, not profit motive; and certainly not short term
gain at long term wide spread expense as a willful decision.
Though that natural and inherent drive to create a better life can be
manipulated with things like tax codes and other artificial
reward/punishment mandates.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drugs
DATE: 22-Oct-06 22:49:00
HOST: sverige
it's the textbook publisher's way of paying protection fees to the
prison-industrial-complex
you know, where nice peaceable blokes get put in the slammer for pot
possession, and are made to do slave labor for what's left of the
manufacturing sector at no/low cost to the profiteers.
it also provides necessary PR for the burgeoning Police State.
sucks,eh?
<BITCH.22-Oct-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Drugs
DATE: 22-Oct-06 22:49:00
HOST: sverige
it's the textbook publisher's way of paying protection fees to the
prison-industrial-complex
you know, where nice peaceable blokes get put in the slammer for pot
possession, and are made to do slave labor for what's left of the
manufacturing sector at no/low cost to the profiteers.
it also provides necessary PR for the burgeoning Police State.
sucks,eh?
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. *nix
DATE: 24-Mar-07 04:28:54
HOST: sverige
"How is *nix supposed to expand to 'linux'? I mean, really."
It happens in your mind. I mean, really. If you don't get it the first
time, you check around a little bit, and pretty soon, well, you just know
what it means, sort of like pudding.
<BITCH.24-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. *nix
DATE: 24-Mar-07 04:28:54
HOST: sverige
"How is *nix supposed to expand to 'linux'? I mean, really."
It happens in your mind. I mean, really. If you don't get it the first
time, you check around a little bit, and pretty soon, well, you just know
what it means, sort of like pudding.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. indian customer support
DATE: 23-May-07 18:38:32
HOST: sverige
"i seem to be monopolizing the BITCH board."
Not really.
"i wonder what that says."
Good :)
<BITCH.23-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. indian customer support
DATE: 23-May-07 18:38:32
HOST: sverige
"i seem to be monopolizing the BITCH board."
Not really.
"i wonder what that says."
Good :)
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. comcast
DATE: 24-Apr-07 16:46:00
HOST: sverige
"why it's necessary to unscrew the coaxial cable *and* turn the router's
power off."
Well now, barnacle, ... :) ..., that's why they're tech and you're not :)
.. also, ... :) ..., ... it's for the goat. You've got to look at it from
the goat's perspective.
And maybe, just maybe, it helps reset the MAC table on somebody's switch.
<BITCH.24-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. comcast
DATE: 24-Apr-07 16:46:00
HOST: sverige
"why it's necessary to unscrew the coaxial cable *and* turn the router's
power off."
Well now, barnacle, ... :) ..., that's why they're tech and you're not :)
.. also, ... :) ..., ... it's for the goat. You've got to look at it from
the goat's perspective.
And maybe, just maybe, it helps reset the MAC table on somebody's switch.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. resource hogs
DATE: 25-Sep-07 20:50:08
HOST: sverige
How do we start a formal vote?
Naim is a buggy resource hog.
I propose that we vote to remove it.
<BITCH.25-Sep-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. resource hogs
DATE: 25-Sep-07 20:50:08
HOST: sverige
How do we start a formal vote?
Naim is a buggy resource hog.
I propose that we vote to remove it.
..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Your Bookshelf?
DATE: 02-Apr-07 14:41:10
HOST: sverige
"Go�del, Escher, Bach", Douglass Hofstadter
"The Glass Bead Game", Hermann Hesse
"Sometimes a Great Notion", Ken Kesey
"The Great Shark Hunt", Hunter S. Thompson
"Still Life With Woodpecker", Tom Robbins
"The Kin of Ata Are Waiting for You", Dorothy Bryant
"Mister God, This is Anna", Fynn
"The Ascent of Man", Jacob Bronowski
"Memories, Dreams, Reflections", Carl Jung
"Divine Love and Wisdom", Emmanuel Swedenborg
Great Books of the Western World
Encyclopaedia Britannica
Dictionaries and Atlases
<BOOKS.02-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Your Bookshelf?
DATE: 02-Apr-07 14:41:10
HOST: sverige
"Go�del, Escher, Bach", Douglass Hofstadter
"The Glass Bead Game", Hermann Hesse
"Sometimes a Great Notion", Ken Kesey
"The Great Shark Hunt", Hunter S. Thompson
"Still Life With Woodpecker", Tom Robbins
"The Kin of Ata Are Waiting for You", Dorothy Bryant
"Mister God, This is Anna", Fynn
"The Ascent of Man", Jacob Bronowski
"Memories, Dreams, Reflections", Carl Jung
"Divine Love and Wisdom", Emmanuel Swedenborg
Great Books of the Western World
Encyclopaedia Britannica
Dictionaries and Atlases
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. NPR RADIO & MPLAYER/XMMS
DATE: 13-Oct-07 15:42:00
HOST: sverige
and plug this into your browser ...
http://www.publicradiofan.com/
<BSD.13-Oct-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. NPR RADIO & MPLAYER/XMMS
DATE: 13-Oct-07 15:42:00
HOST: sverige
and plug this into your browser ...
http://www.publicradiofan.com/
TACKER: arpa (John Pollock)
SUBJECT: .. NPR RADIO & MPLAYER/XMMS
DATE: 13-Oct-07 16:27:40
HOST: faeroes
avoyager,
Thanks for the link, have it bookmarked.
:)
arpa
<BSD.13-Oct-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: arpa (John Pollock)
SUBJECT: .. NPR RADIO & MPLAYER/XMMS
DATE: 13-Oct-07 16:27:40
HOST: faeroes
avoyager,
Thanks for the link, have it bookmarked.
:)
arpa
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. BSD Resources
DATE: 14-Jun-07 12:48:22
HOST: sverige
Switzer, ...
Again, this process of learning UNIX/BSD/SDF goes slowly. In a way it is
supposed to, with several benefits over rapidly injesting it all like thru
some kind of mind-meld.
Referring to the FAQ which you yourself referenced ...
Also, a really great way to learn about this system is by not
asking questions, but by just looking around, reading and trying
things out. Don't worry about 'breaking' anything, just be
adventurous and read the manual pages for interesting commands
you might discover.
It sinks in, and an exciting new discovery is always just around the corner
waiting for us each to discover. It is afterall an exploration. Ascending a
mountain peak is very much about the climb or hike, not taking the helo.
Check for instance, 'cowsay' :)
or 'smj' ... use the 'which' tool to see where they're located and the
'file' tool to discover their filetype and the 'less' tool to read the
scripts
and note that the directory in which you find these things also contains
many other similar treasures for future exploration; and some day take note
of the directory structure within which these files exist, and explore....
So, no mind-meld here, but much memory required to retain it all unless you
take notes, links to which might be appreciated by other SDFers, such as
thom has just done, or my old pages at NIX_notes.html and SDF_notes.html,
or vosi's SDF_wiki!! now defunct.
And I'd wager that if you explored the SDF gopher space you'd find some
really fascinating things, including Albert Einstein's paper in support of
socialism. /avoyager thanks the SDF'er who sponsored that for me!
These things require *time*, .... *very enjoyable* time, which can be
relished and cherished like a taste of fine vintage port, rather than
gulping the bottle down like water.
<BSD.14-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. BSD Resources
DATE: 14-Jun-07 12:48:22
HOST: sverige
Switzer, ...
Again, this process of learning UNIX/BSD/SDF goes slowly. In a way it is
supposed to, with several benefits over rapidly injesting it all like thru
some kind of mind-meld.
Referring to the FAQ which you yourself referenced ...
Also, a really great way to learn about this system is by not
asking questions, but by just looking around, reading and trying
things out. Don't worry about 'breaking' anything, just be
adventurous and read the manual pages for interesting commands
you might discover.
It sinks in, and an exciting new discovery is always just around the corner
waiting for us each to discover. It is afterall an exploration. Ascending a
mountain peak is very much about the climb or hike, not taking the helo.
Check for instance, 'cowsay' :)
or 'smj' ... use the 'which' tool to see where they're located and the
'file' tool to discover their filetype and the 'less' tool to read the
scripts
and note that the directory in which you find these things also contains
many other similar treasures for future exploration; and some day take note
of the directory structure within which these files exist, and explore....
So, no mind-meld here, but much memory required to retain it all unless you
take notes, links to which might be appreciated by other SDFers, such as
thom has just done, or my old pages at NIX_notes.html and SDF_notes.html,
or vosi's SDF_wiki!! now defunct.
And I'd wager that if you explored the SDF gopher space you'd find some
really fascinating things, including Albert Einstein's paper in support of
socialism. /avoyager thanks the SDF'er who sponsored that for me!
These things require *time*, .... *very enjoyable* time, which can be
relished and cherished like a taste of fine vintage port, rather than
gulping the bottle down like water.
TACKER: thom (Thomas Graydon-Guy)
SUBJECT: .. BSD Resources
DATE: 14-Jun-07 21:15:44
HOST: faeroes
Thanks for the links, have put most of them in. Will look at the
package source work in progress thing a bit later. I definately
second avoyager's suggestion of keeping a notebook, and might put
in a note about that.
Might even type up my BSD notebooks at some point.
<BSD.14-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: thom (Thomas Graydon-Guy)
SUBJECT: .. BSD Resources
DATE: 14-Jun-07 21:15:44
HOST: faeroes
Thanks for the links, have put most of them in. Will look at the
package source work in progress thing a bit later. I definately
second avoyager's suggestion of keeping a notebook, and might put
in a note about that.
Might even type up my BSD notebooks at some point.
..............TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. enrypted smtp, vpn, etc
DATE: 07-Apr-07 12:27:38
HOST: sverige
In addition to Bruce's suggestions I'll add a recommendation for cotse.net.
They offer all manner of interface to secure email in both directions, plus
TLS on inbound and outbound public connections, SSH tunnels, HTTP and SOCKS
proxys, most configurable spam filtering options, and frequently of most
importance and use, multiple aliases (also multiple domain aliases) for
your use; and in my determination, the very best way to rid yourself of
spam is a willingness, and a system (aliases) to revoke/remove aliases. In
addition to keeping spam out of your inboxes, this technique doesn't burden
your servers with processing spam, and it leaves the cruft on the source
which is trying to send it in the first place!
(in addition, you get a decent spanel hosting account) all for $6/mo.
I've been with them for years with no complaints.
That said, you can also get most (sans TLS, HTTP proxy, Cpanel) of this AND
MORE! at SDF with the appropriate membership levels.
<DIALUP.07-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. enrypted smtp, vpn, etc
DATE: 07-Apr-07 12:27:38
HOST: sverige
In addition to Bruce's suggestions I'll add a recommendation for cotse.net.
They offer all manner of interface to secure email in both directions, plus
TLS on inbound and outbound public connections, SSH tunnels, HTTP and SOCKS
proxys, most configurable spam filtering options, and frequently of most
importance and use, multiple aliases (also multiple domain aliases) for
your use; and in my determination, the very best way to rid yourself of
spam is a willingness, and a system (aliases) to revoke/remove aliases. In
addition to keeping spam out of your inboxes, this technique doesn't burden
your servers with processing spam, and it leaves the cruft on the source
which is trying to send it in the first place!
(in addition, you get a decent spanel hosting account) all for $6/mo.
I've been with them for years with no complaints.
That said, you can also get most (sans TLS, HTTP proxy, Cpanel) of this AND
MORE! at SDF with the appropriate membership levels.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Success and a lesson
DATE: 14-May-07 19:07:28
HOST: sverige
I would expect that two different concurrent DSL accounts would HAVE to be
on two physically different wires and possibly two physically different
modems on your end.
<DSL.14-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Success and a lesson
DATE: 14-May-07 19:07:28
HOST: sverige
I would expect that two different concurrent DSL accounts would HAVE to be
on two physically different wires and possibly two physically different
modems on your end.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. DSL Splitters
DATE: 19-May-07 03:53:34
HOST: sverige
Jeff, what you describe looks like what I did. At the point where the wire
lines come into the house, i picked the pair which carry the DSL and
separated it from the other pairs. Then I ran a direct new cat-5 to the DSL
modem. In my case, that pair also serves the computer faxmodem, and so
there's a micro-filter where the modem splits from the DSL.
If the one pair with DSL is also going to serve the rest of the house, the
micro-filter would go at the perimiter wall, splitting the DSL from the
rest of the house, and still running a new dedicated DSL line thru the
house, with a single filter for everything else.
Is the "splitter" to which you refer the same piece as the "micro-filter"
packaged with the DSL modem? ... a "Y" splitter with DSL down one fork and
filtered voice down the other?
As I understand it (or mis-understand it) the "filter" is on the voice
line, filtering it from the DSL signal.
My costs, shared with the LAN wiring project, was the wire, the plastic
male "jack" end plugs (whatever they're called), the crimper to fix the
ends to the wire, and an optional wall plate which also provides the femail
"jack" outlet for other pair in the wire going to voice lines.
Connections are totally stable and fast; at the far end from the provider's
CO even.
<DSL.19-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. DSL Splitters
DATE: 19-May-07 03:53:34
HOST: sverige
Jeff, what you describe looks like what I did. At the point where the wire
lines come into the house, i picked the pair which carry the DSL and
separated it from the other pairs. Then I ran a direct new cat-5 to the DSL
modem. In my case, that pair also serves the computer faxmodem, and so
there's a micro-filter where the modem splits from the DSL.
If the one pair with DSL is also going to serve the rest of the house, the
micro-filter would go at the perimiter wall, splitting the DSL from the
rest of the house, and still running a new dedicated DSL line thru the
house, with a single filter for everything else.
Is the "splitter" to which you refer the same piece as the "micro-filter"
packaged with the DSL modem? ... a "Y" splitter with DSL down one fork and
filtered voice down the other?
As I understand it (or mis-understand it) the "filter" is on the voice
line, filtering it from the DSL signal.
My costs, shared with the LAN wiring project, was the wire, the plastic
male "jack" end plugs (whatever they're called), the crimper to fix the
ends to the wire, and an optional wall plate which also provides the femail
"jack" outlet for other pair in the wire going to voice lines.
Connections are totally stable and fast; at the far end from the provider's
CO even.
TACKER: jgw (Jeff Woodall)
SUBJECT: .. DSL Splitters
DATE: 19-May-07 16:13:35
HOST: faeroes
avoyager:
Kinda. My service box is literally on the other side of the wall from
where I have the DSL modem so I have lots of options. Currently I've
got a cheap Y-splitter and micro filter inside the service box feeding
both the DSL and POTS lines through to a multi-jack wallplate. The
POTS line then feeds to dedicated jacks for phone service. CAT5e lines
feed from the router connected to the DSL modem to other rooms. It
works pretty well but I'd rather have a higher quality exterior grade
splitter that has surge protection built-in to prevent say, a lightning
strike, from taking out the whole enchilada, or even a simple short due
to moisture getting in the service box.
smj: I'll look around. Maybe some liquidators have them in bulk now
that everyone but dinosaurs (like me) have cell phones. When I call
Qwest these days I get directed to their "Legacy Customer Retention
Center" - LOL.
<DSL.19-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: jgw (Jeff Woodall)
SUBJECT: .. DSL Splitters
DATE: 19-May-07 16:13:35
HOST: faeroes
avoyager:
Kinda. My service box is literally on the other side of the wall from
where I have the DSL modem so I have lots of options. Currently I've
got a cheap Y-splitter and micro filter inside the service box feeding
both the DSL and POTS lines through to a multi-jack wallplate. The
POTS line then feeds to dedicated jacks for phone service. CAT5e lines
feed from the router connected to the DSL modem to other rooms. It
works pretty well but I'd rather have a higher quality exterior grade
splitter that has surge protection built-in to prevent say, a lightning
strike, from taking out the whole enchilada, or even a simple short due
to moisture getting in the service box.
smj: I'll look around. Maybe some liquidators have them in bulk now
that everyone but dinosaurs (like me) have cell phones. When I call
Qwest these days I get directed to their "Legacy Customer Retention
Center" - LOL.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Best Buy to buy Speakeasy
DATE: 27-Mar-07 16:04:56
HOST: sverige
No, it's not the "end of the world" <trolled again>, but it is the end of a
quality independent operation.
I was going to post this over in the Alex Jones channel, but it really is
every bit as much appropriate here ....
"each drone must be individually exploited, infected, and assimilated"
--
http://www.shadowserver.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Information.Botnets
<DSL.27-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Best Buy to buy Speakeasy
DATE: 27-Mar-07 16:04:56
HOST: sverige
No, it's not the "end of the world" <trolled again>, but it is the end of a
quality independent operation.
I was going to post this over in the Alex Jones channel, but it really is
every bit as much appropriate here ....
"each drone must be individually exploited, infected, and assimilated"
--
http://www.shadowserver.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Information.Botnets
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. With SDF DSL can I keep current email address?
DATE: 28-Oct-07 13:34:29
HOST: sverige
Brandon,
If you have their voice phone service, they'll be happy that you're still
an existing customer, while sad that they don't have all of you; but at
least they'll talk with you :)
Letting you keep the sbcglobal addy is good promotion for them; ... every
sbcglobal.net addy out there is good promotion for them. Since it's handled
thru Yahoo!, their best play, which you could offer to them if they don't
see it, would be to let you use it on a paid Yahoo account.
It's a consideration, anyway.
<DSL.28-Oct-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. With SDF DSL can I keep current email address?
DATE: 28-Oct-07 13:34:29
HOST: sverige
Brandon,
If you have their voice phone service, they'll be happy that you're still
an existing customer, while sad that they don't have all of you; but at
least they'll talk with you :)
Letting you keep the sbcglobal addy is good promotion for them; ... every
sbcglobal.net addy out there is good promotion for them. Since it's handled
thru Yahoo!, their best play, which you could offer to them if they don't
see it, would be to let you use it on a paid Yahoo account.
It's a consideration, anyway.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Accents in e-mail
DATE: 20-Mar-07 12:19:35
HOST: sverige
Maybe this reference will be useful to you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO-8859-1#ISO-8859-1
convert the hex keycode to decimal and enter it in the old fashoned way
by the numeric pad with the Alt key down.
??
<FRENCH.20-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Accents in e-mail
DATE: 20-Mar-07 12:19:35
HOST: sverige
Maybe this reference will be useful to you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO-8859-1#ISO-8859-1
convert the hex keycode to decimal and enter it in the old fashoned way
by the numeric pad with the Alt key down.
??
...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 04-Apr-07 00:08:18
HOST: sverige
Thanks for sharing that positive experience, David.
I moved into OS/2 2.1 from DOS/DesqView and TBBS/SEAdog. The Windows
products never appealed to me, and from what I could see, didn't even work
right. Neither did Autocad, so for that I went with InfoCad and then
MicroStation. MicroStation even had an OS/2 version for a short while.
Borland provided *_most_everything* required for a personal and
professional life with DOS, and for my concerns all the office products
(Sprint, Quattro Pro, Paradox) were sufficient or superior to the
competition (SuperCalc aside, and Super Project Expert without challenge).
For all the bad rap given Pascal as a programming language, there was
nothing I wanted to do which it couldn't support. Borland Pascal was Object
Oriented before C++ I believe; or at least concurrent.
And then, FatBoy fell (or was it Reagan?), and Borland disappeared into the
night after a foray into some GUI/mouse based C coding development
environment which itself was written in Pascal.
The prospects of converting my DOS dependencies to Windows were just plain
revoltin', so I didn't.
OS/2 2.1 came out saying that it could support all of my DOS based
operations, AND it would provide a tcp/ip stack, networking, and slip/ppp
access to the Internet, well in advance of Windows offering the same; and
on an affordable hardware which could also support DOS; concurrent with the
arising of local ISPs who could provide the 96k modem links.
"Affordable" at the time was a Compaq Deskpro 386-16 for about US$5000
<GENERAL.04-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 04-Apr-07 00:08:18
HOST: sverige
Thanks for sharing that positive experience, David.
I moved into OS/2 2.1 from DOS/DesqView and TBBS/SEAdog. The Windows
products never appealed to me, and from what I could see, didn't even work
right. Neither did Autocad, so for that I went with InfoCad and then
MicroStation. MicroStation even had an OS/2 version for a short while.
Borland provided *_most_everything* required for a personal and
professional life with DOS, and for my concerns all the office products
(Sprint, Quattro Pro, Paradox) were sufficient or superior to the
competition (SuperCalc aside, and Super Project Expert without challenge).
For all the bad rap given Pascal as a programming language, there was
nothing I wanted to do which it couldn't support. Borland Pascal was Object
Oriented before C++ I believe; or at least concurrent.
And then, FatBoy fell (or was it Reagan?), and Borland disappeared into the
night after a foray into some GUI/mouse based C coding development
environment which itself was written in Pascal.
The prospects of converting my DOS dependencies to Windows were just plain
revoltin', so I didn't.
OS/2 2.1 came out saying that it could support all of my DOS based
operations, AND it would provide a tcp/ip stack, networking, and slip/ppp
access to the Internet, well in advance of Windows offering the same; and
on an affordable hardware which could also support DOS; concurrent with the
arising of local ISPs who could provide the 96k modem links.
"Affordable" at the time was a Compaq Deskpro 386-16 for about US$5000
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 04-Apr-07 01:01:21
HOST: sverige
OS/2 is not, has never been, and isn't going to be, superior to Unix or BSD
or Linux.
First, it is a single user system. Lots of user/file permission features,
and other security features, descend from this condition.
Second, the HPFS file system hasn't matured, and most notably does not
support the excellent feature of symbolic links.
and that may be all.
It does have a strong and stable window manager; and an outstanding desktop
interface [included and default but not required, and is replaceable] on
top of that.
And in spite of its formal abandonment, OS/2, now eCcomStation, does
support lots of current hardware, through the devoted contributions of
many.
<GENERAL.04-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 04-Apr-07 01:01:21
HOST: sverige
OS/2 is not, has never been, and isn't going to be, superior to Unix or BSD
or Linux.
First, it is a single user system. Lots of user/file permission features,
and other security features, descend from this condition.
Second, the HPFS file system hasn't matured, and most notably does not
support the excellent feature of symbolic links.
and that may be all.
It does have a strong and stable window manager; and an outstanding desktop
interface [included and default but not required, and is replaceable] on
top of that.
And in spite of its formal abandonment, OS/2, now eCcomStation, does
support lots of current hardware, through the devoted contributions of
many.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 04-Apr-07 01:25:32
HOST: sverige
As a special exclusive for SDF users, I'll describe what my OS/2 system is
doing today. You don't have to be impressed. I don't expect any of you to
be doing half this much on any platform.
This OS/2 system is my only current desktop computer. It runs on an Athlon
1700+ and 1G of RAM and a pair of 60G EIDE drives, all assembled 5 yrs.
ago.
Connected to the Internet by DSL modem, this system, with two NICS,
provides the firewall/NAT gateway (fx.dk) to the local 100MB ethernet LAN.
At this moment is has an uptime of 32 days and is running 52 processes, 218
threads, and 369 open files, all using 360MB of physical RAM and no disk
cache.
Full time services are Bind9, SMTPd, POPd, NTPd (precise time), and Privoxy
filtering http proxy.
Also in support of local/internal operations are 3 different concurrent SSH
connections providing port-forwarding which provide renundant avenues of
encryption thru ISP and privacy protection of local IP.
Used with privoxy, these enable me to packet-filter block all outbound
connections from the systems within the LAN, which are configured to use
the OS/2 gateway for caching, resolving DNS, http and socks proxys, and
direct tunnel connections for mail and irc.
The firewall allows for timed openings and connection holes for things like
AV updates, remote POP/IMAP connections; and also provides connection
accounting in addition to policy logs.
There is also a physical printer, and a PostScript -> PDF file converter
print object, shared on the LAN.
I'll describe client use of this busy OS/2 system in another posting.
<GENERAL.04-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 04-Apr-07 01:25:32
HOST: sverige
As a special exclusive for SDF users, I'll describe what my OS/2 system is
doing today. You don't have to be impressed. I don't expect any of you to
be doing half this much on any platform.
This OS/2 system is my only current desktop computer. It runs on an Athlon
1700+ and 1G of RAM and a pair of 60G EIDE drives, all assembled 5 yrs.
ago.
Connected to the Internet by DSL modem, this system, with two NICS,
provides the firewall/NAT gateway (fx.dk) to the local 100MB ethernet LAN.
At this moment is has an uptime of 32 days and is running 52 processes, 218
threads, and 369 open files, all using 360MB of physical RAM and no disk
cache.
Full time services are Bind9, SMTPd, POPd, NTPd (precise time), and Privoxy
filtering http proxy.
Also in support of local/internal operations are 3 different concurrent SSH
connections providing port-forwarding which provide renundant avenues of
encryption thru ISP and privacy protection of local IP.
Used with privoxy, these enable me to packet-filter block all outbound
connections from the systems within the LAN, which are configured to use
the OS/2 gateway for caching, resolving DNS, http and socks proxys, and
direct tunnel connections for mail and irc.
The firewall allows for timed openings and connection holes for things like
AV updates, remote POP/IMAP connections; and also provides connection
accounting in addition to policy logs.
There is also a physical printer, and a PostScript -> PDF file converter
print object, shared on the LAN.
I'll describe client use of this busy OS/2 system in another posting.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 05-Apr-07 13:37:29
HOST: sverige
Most noteworthy of the OS/2 applications is the original "VirtualPC"
product, subsequently acquired and killed by Microsoft, which on my desktop
today supports windowed guests for w2kpro and Debian installations, fully
networked into the local LAN with internet gateway.
<GENERAL.05-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 05-Apr-07 13:37:29
HOST: sverige
Most noteworthy of the OS/2 applications is the original "VirtualPC"
product, subsequently acquired and killed by Microsoft, which on my desktop
today supports windowed guests for w2kpro and Debian installations, fully
networked into the local LAN with internet gateway.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 06-Apr-07 03:03:02
HOST: sverige
I am indeed referring to the Connectix VirtualPC product, provided in
association with InnoTek Systemberatung GmhH for OS/2 ... with hardcopy
bound manual bearing Copyright 2001, 2002 and installation CD.
I use it frequently, on my OS/2 system, and have been for 5 years now. I
don't even have a Mac :)
After MicroSoft purchased this product, and killed at least the OS/2 host
line, there was a product in development for OS/2 by the name of Svista
which was taken over by Parallels.
<GENERAL.06-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History
DATE: 06-Apr-07 03:03:02
HOST: sverige
I am indeed referring to the Connectix VirtualPC product, provided in
association with InnoTek Systemberatung GmhH for OS/2 ... with hardcopy
bound manual bearing Copyright 2001, 2002 and installation CD.
I use it frequently, on my OS/2 system, and have been for 5 years now. I
don't even have a Mac :)
After MicroSoft purchased this product, and killed at least the OS/2 host
line, there was a product in development for OS/2 by the name of Svista
which was taken over by Parallels.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. The Find command
DATE: 06-Dec-06 03:02:16
HOST: sverige
!!!! "Do you have any idea where you are?" !!!!
excellent, deanna :) thank you.
<GENERAL.06-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. The Find command
DATE: 06-Dec-06 03:02:16
HOST: sverige
!!!! "Do you have any idea where you are?" !!!!
excellent, deanna :) thank you.
....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Researching bittorrent tracker technologies
DATE: 05-Sep-07 03:23:10
HOST: sverige
I haven't run trackers, but with the python based (original?), (now at
bittorrent.org), clients, I haven't seen anything radiating illegality.
I think I recall archive.org serving torrents.
Torrents are a great way to transfer large files, when they have a
significant concurrent swarm. After that, they can still provide long term
storage and distribution, but possibly quite slowly.
Those are my two pointers
since you asked :)
<GENERAL.05-Sep-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Researching bittorrent tracker technologies
DATE: 05-Sep-07 03:23:10
HOST: sverige
I haven't run trackers, but with the python based (original?), (now at
bittorrent.org), clients, I haven't seen anything radiating illegality.
I think I recall archive.org serving torrents.
Torrents are a great way to transfer large files, when they have a
significant concurrent swarm. After that, they can still provide long term
storage and distribution, but possibly quite slowly.
Those are my two pointers
since you asked :)
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. DON'T FORGET TO VOTE TUESDAY!
DATE: 08-Nov-06 19:14:27
HOST: sverige
OK. Now that the U.S. electorate has replaced some shit-heads with some
dip-shits, .... um, ..... well, ...... uuhh, .......
..... the Daily Show should be pretty good this week.
<GENERAL.08-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. DON'T FORGET TO VOTE TUESDAY!
DATE: 08-Nov-06 19:14:27
HOST: sverige
OK. Now that the U.S. electorate has replaced some shit-heads with some
dip-shits, .... um, ..... well, ...... uuhh, .......
..... the Daily Show should be pretty good this week.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. craigslist erotic services
DATE: 08-Oct-07 20:31:49
HOST: sverige
Prostitution is illegal!?!????? What the Hell. They may as well pass a law
requiring drivers to wear seatbelts, and motorcyclists to wear helmets.
Whatever happend to Freedom in the USA??
<GENERAL.08-Oct-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. craigslist erotic services
DATE: 08-Oct-07 20:31:49
HOST: sverige
Prostitution is illegal!?!????? What the Hell. They may as well pass a law
requiring drivers to wear seatbelts, and motorcyclists to wear helmets.
Whatever happend to Freedom in the USA??
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. CAD work in Blender?
DATE: 10-Jan-07 23:55:29
HOST: sverige
I've used another Intellicad product, CADopia[.com], happily enough.
<GENERAL.10-Jan-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. CAD work in Blender?
DATE: 10-Jan-07 23:55:29
HOST: sverige
I've used another Intellicad product, CADopia[.com], happily enough.
....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 13-Jul-07 19:28:00
HOST: sverige
Rather than blaming the victims for "life-style", it's past time to
acknowledge the real criminals in the unhealthy lives of the masses, those
corporatist interests which extract nutritive values of the food production
system and replace them with harmful degenerative foreign substances like
trans-fat marjarines, antibiotics and pesticides.
Wake up, sheeple.
<GENERAL.13-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 13-Jul-07 19:28:00
HOST: sverige
Rather than blaming the victims for "life-style", it's past time to
acknowledge the real criminals in the unhealthy lives of the masses, those
corporatist interests which extract nutritive values of the food production
system and replace them with harmful degenerative foreign substances like
trans-fat marjarines, antibiotics and pesticides.
Wake up, sheeple.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 13-Jul-07 22:58:51
HOST: sverige
"We always hear how expensive it is, but I rarely see any sensible
explanation of "why" it is expensive."
I'll offer one for your consideration: the medical insurance enterprise;
and relatedly, the pharmaceutical industry; and not relatedly, the medical
malpractice threat.
But if you really want to see HUGE spending waste, you hardlly have to look
further than the Pentagon and other recently created fear based agencies.
<GENERAL.13-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 13-Jul-07 22:58:51
HOST: sverige
"We always hear how expensive it is, but I rarely see any sensible
explanation of "why" it is expensive."
I'll offer one for your consideration: the medical insurance enterprise;
and relatedly, the pharmaceutical industry; and not relatedly, the medical
malpractice threat.
But if you really want to see HUGE spending waste, you hardlly have to look
further than the Pentagon and other recently created fear based agencies.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 14-Jul-07 13:57:37
HOST: sverige
I'm not confident that the application of "free market forces" would be
appropriate to the practice of healthcare or medical treatments; because
"free market forces" tend to be a dive race to the bottom .... of price ...
then quality. In order to remain in business, services must be provided at
less cost, and the corporate solution to that is to degrade quality. You
see it everywhere as you watch your purchases fall apart and underperform.
well .. not "EVERYwhere" ... but
One great example of how the unregulated corporatist marketplace has been
an absolute devastation is the environment and the food supply; both nearly
ruined perhaps permanently by corporatism which is not only unregulated but
now in control of the regulators.
That said, "free market forces" can also have context in terms of consumer
interaction; but when the consumer has no real say or influence, which is
more often the case than not, this is something of a strawman.
For medical treatment, are you going to "shop around" for an appendectomy?
or to reset a broken bone? or for some angioplasty?
Say you need some blood tests; are you going to drive/phone around looking
for one lab to be more satisfactory than another?
And what IF any schmoe with a degree from late nite cable-TV and some money
from trading on insider information set up a corner shop to provide ANY of
these services?
What if AT&T or Microsoft or SAIC just bought out all the hospitals and
doctors in your state, or drove them out of business by undercutting their
prices or purchasing their supply chains, while covering it in other
states?
Face it folks, "free market" is a disaster rampaging the planet, breeding
greed, loathing, and fear everywhere.
<GENERAL.14-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 14-Jul-07 13:57:37
HOST: sverige
I'm not confident that the application of "free market forces" would be
appropriate to the practice of healthcare or medical treatments; because
"free market forces" tend to be a dive race to the bottom .... of price ...
then quality. In order to remain in business, services must be provided at
less cost, and the corporate solution to that is to degrade quality. You
see it everywhere as you watch your purchases fall apart and underperform.
well .. not "EVERYwhere" ... but
One great example of how the unregulated corporatist marketplace has been
an absolute devastation is the environment and the food supply; both nearly
ruined perhaps permanently by corporatism which is not only unregulated but
now in control of the regulators.
That said, "free market forces" can also have context in terms of consumer
interaction; but when the consumer has no real say or influence, which is
more often the case than not, this is something of a strawman.
For medical treatment, are you going to "shop around" for an appendectomy?
or to reset a broken bone? or for some angioplasty?
Say you need some blood tests; are you going to drive/phone around looking
for one lab to be more satisfactory than another?
And what IF any schmoe with a degree from late nite cable-TV and some money
from trading on insider information set up a corner shop to provide ANY of
these services?
What if AT&T or Microsoft or SAIC just bought out all the hospitals and
doctors in your state, or drove them out of business by undercutting their
prices or purchasing their supply chains, while covering it in other
states?
Face it folks, "free market" is a disaster rampaging the planet, breeding
greed, loathing, and fear everywhere.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 14-Jul-07 14:17:53
HOST: sverige
> "And what IF any schmoe with a degree from late nite cable-TV and some
money from trading on insider information set up a corner shop to provide
ANY of these services?"
This is actually happening (not quite to the stated extreme) in the U.S.
Folks are setting up some kind of CT scanners or something in shopping
malls (in former tobacco outlets) and providing cancer assessments.
For those who don't know, part of the controversy is whether or not they're
creating more than an appropriate amount of false positive tests.
And another thing .... remember, ... if/since the sole motivation for
providing services in a corporatist economy is PROFIT, .... where is the
profit in prevention? compared to testing and treatment?
No profit potential ... no motivation ... no action ... no prevention.
High profit potential ... from illness ... from fear ... from illiteracy
.. give it to 'em without delay so as to avoid "opportunity losses".
/avo <sighs>
<GENERAL.14-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 14-Jul-07 14:17:53
HOST: sverige
> "And what IF any schmoe with a degree from late nite cable-TV and some
money from trading on insider information set up a corner shop to provide
ANY of these services?"
This is actually happening (not quite to the stated extreme) in the U.S.
Folks are setting up some kind of CT scanners or something in shopping
malls (in former tobacco outlets) and providing cancer assessments.
For those who don't know, part of the controversy is whether or not they're
creating more than an appropriate amount of false positive tests.
And another thing .... remember, ... if/since the sole motivation for
providing services in a corporatist economy is PROFIT, .... where is the
profit in prevention? compared to testing and treatment?
No profit potential ... no motivation ... no action ... no prevention.
High profit potential ... from illness ... from fear ... from illiteracy
.. give it to 'em without delay so as to avoid "opportunity losses".
/avo <sighs>
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 15-Jul-07 00:27:24
HOST: sverige
Jeff, I am mostly/predominately in agreement with most of what you said.
Thank you.
So far however, cures and prevention have not been the product of
corporatist profiteering.
As a brief aside, and I do NOT want to be party to any hijacking of this
thread, but by way of background, my current perspective is that the single
point of failure in the current economic system, which includes the medical
arena, was/is not capitalism or "free market", but was the granting of
"personhood" rights to corporations (which by defintion have no
conscience, morals, social or long term perspective, or virtue other than
as exploiters).
And when that attitude runs the government, democracy does not exist, and
also the government becomes as selfishly focused as businesses.
The fact that government has demonstrated an ability to be inept and
inefficient should not impose that characteristic as a necesesary and
unavoidable component of self-rule. Corporations have demonstrated at least
as much inefficiency and ineptitude in their handling of "out-sourced"
services; but/and *that* is not going to change in an unregulated climate
of corporatism with the rights of conscientious humans.
Bottom line, ... keep your hard earned money; and use it to stay healthy
and out of trouble with the law.
Peace,
avo
---
<GENERAL.15-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 15-Jul-07 00:27:24
HOST: sverige
Jeff, I am mostly/predominately in agreement with most of what you said.
Thank you.
So far however, cures and prevention have not been the product of
corporatist profiteering.
As a brief aside, and I do NOT want to be party to any hijacking of this
thread, but by way of background, my current perspective is that the single
point of failure in the current economic system, which includes the medical
arena, was/is not capitalism or "free market", but was the granting of
"personhood" rights to corporations (which by defintion have no
conscience, morals, social or long term perspective, or virtue other than
as exploiters).
And when that attitude runs the government, democracy does not exist, and
also the government becomes as selfishly focused as businesses.
The fact that government has demonstrated an ability to be inept and
inefficient should not impose that characteristic as a necesesary and
unavoidable component of self-rule. Corporations have demonstrated at least
as much inefficiency and ineptitude in their handling of "out-sourced"
services; but/and *that* is not going to change in an unregulated climate
of corporatism with the rights of conscientious humans.
Bottom line, ... keep your hard earned money; and use it to stay healthy
and out of trouble with the law.
Peace,
avo
---
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 15-Jul-07 02:58:23
HOST: sverige
"As to the free-market system being to blame; Perhaps, though I'm more
inclined to believe it is the participation of corporate entities,
treated with the same rights as individuals, all while not being bound ..."
/avo waves and cheers
noting that these are the same entities which control and provide the
dysfunctions of today's government.
<GENERAL.15-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 15-Jul-07 02:58:23
HOST: sverige
"As to the free-market system being to blame; Perhaps, though I'm more
inclined to believe it is the participation of corporate entities,
treated with the same rights as individuals, all while not being bound ..."
/avo waves and cheers
noting that these are the same entities which control and provide the
dysfunctions of today's government.
TACKER: gpd (Gavin Duley)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 15-Jul-07 13:59:59
HOST: droog
sheywood wrote:
>"Free" public health care for everyone would be too expensive for the
>tax payers to afford. If everybody had "free" public health care then
>everybody would go to the doctor or to the emergency room every time
>he suffers from a common cold or a sprained ankle or some other
>condition that he would get over and recover from without any
>professional medical treatment.
I have no knowledge of how things are in the US, but I'm doubtful about not
being able to afford it. The UK, after all, can afford a free health care
system. Australia can also afford a more or less free health care system. I
doubt either country is richer than the US.
Yes, they do have to put up with people visiting A&E for a cold,
but I doubt this is the major financial strain on the system. Such cases
are generally fairly quickly turned away.
In terms of being able to choose your health care, both countries have
private as well as public. You can't opt-out of public health care, but
there's a wide range of private options for you if for some reason you
don't want to go to the public system -- and there's nothing really to
force you to. They're geneally faster (ie you get to see a doctor sooner,
and any treatment happengs quicker), but not always as good as the public
system.
The important thing, I guess, is that you shouldn't be without treatment
just because you can't afford it.
Oh yes, and I'm going to agree with avoyager et al. on the point that
treating corporations as individuals causes problems. Thought that ever
since watching 'The Corporation' -- quite a good film, that.
gavin,
<GENERAL.15-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: gpd (Gavin Duley)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 15-Jul-07 13:59:59
HOST: droog
sheywood wrote:
>"Free" public health care for everyone would be too expensive for the
>tax payers to afford. If everybody had "free" public health care then
>everybody would go to the doctor or to the emergency room every time
>he suffers from a common cold or a sprained ankle or some other
>condition that he would get over and recover from without any
>professional medical treatment.
I have no knowledge of how things are in the US, but I'm doubtful about not
being able to afford it. The UK, after all, can afford a free health care
system. Australia can also afford a more or less free health care system. I
doubt either country is richer than the US.
Yes, they do have to put up with people visiting A&E for a cold,
but I doubt this is the major financial strain on the system. Such cases
are generally fairly quickly turned away.
In terms of being able to choose your health care, both countries have
private as well as public. You can't opt-out of public health care, but
there's a wide range of private options for you if for some reason you
don't want to go to the public system -- and there's nothing really to
force you to. They're geneally faster (ie you get to see a doctor sooner,
and any treatment happengs quicker), but not always as good as the public
system.
The important thing, I guess, is that you shouldn't be without treatment
just because you can't afford it.
Oh yes, and I'm going to agree with avoyager et al. on the point that
treating corporations as individuals causes problems. Thought that ever
since watching 'The Corporation' -- quite a good film, that.
gavin,
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 16-Jul-07 04:14:15
HOST: sverige
"When things become cheaper, people choose to consume more of it."
Only if they want it. I for one wouldn't want to spend umpteen hours
filling out paperwork and hanging around in a disease-ridden medical care
environment unless I *needed* to, *especially* if my immune system is
already depressed with a head cold or flu.
It's really sad what a low impression some folks have of humans. Attitudes
of "if the society became socialist, everybody would sit on their butts and
expect handouts" reflects only the acknowledgement of that propensity by
the speaker, and is not an accurate picture of others in the population who
don't like or want to just sit worthlessly on their duffs.
Just because the U.S. leadership, and its supporters, currently possess
zero integrity or responsibility or accountability doesn't make them human.
Humans are capable of, and strive for, virtue; corporations (and their
political tools) are, and do, not.
<GENERAL.16-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 16-Jul-07 04:14:15
HOST: sverige
"When things become cheaper, people choose to consume more of it."
Only if they want it. I for one wouldn't want to spend umpteen hours
filling out paperwork and hanging around in a disease-ridden medical care
environment unless I *needed* to, *especially* if my immune system is
already depressed with a head cold or flu.
It's really sad what a low impression some folks have of humans. Attitudes
of "if the society became socialist, everybody would sit on their butts and
expect handouts" reflects only the acknowledgement of that propensity by
the speaker, and is not an accurate picture of others in the population who
don't like or want to just sit worthlessly on their duffs.
Just because the U.S. leadership, and its supporters, currently possess
zero integrity or responsibility or accountability doesn't make them human.
Humans are capable of, and strive for, virtue; corporations (and their
political tools) are, and do, not.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 16-Jul-07 21:05:26
HOST: sverige
In the United States it's silly to talk about the costs of providing public
health care or education. There's plenty of money for it, requiring only a
most reasonable shift in budgeting the existing expense side.
As to letting poor people rot while those who can afford it pay their own
way for health care, the line of affordability is probably somewhere around
the 85:15 percent of population who rot:don't.
as long as the system is ruled by today's criminal enterprise.
<GENERAL.16-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. national health care
DATE: 16-Jul-07 21:05:26
HOST: sverige
In the United States it's silly to talk about the costs of providing public
health care or education. There's plenty of money for it, requiring only a
most reasonable shift in budgeting the existing expense side.
As to letting poor people rot while those who can afford it pay their own
way for health care, the line of affordability is probably somewhere around
the 85:15 percent of population who rot:don't.
as long as the system is ruled by today's criminal enterprise.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. travel advice
DATE: 14-May-07 04:53:14
HOST: sverige
Beautiful Trip, barnacle!
I'd personally ditch the expense of car, insurance, maintenance, and fuel;
and look into a rail pass.
Note also, that when you get to Winnipeg, you can probably still take a
train up to Churchill on Hudson Bay. By the schedule I planned 20 yrs ago,
it arrived at 8am and departed at 8pm; plenty of time to see all the local
attractions and bars.
There's a ferry from Prince Rupert to Vancouver Island; and a bit of a bus
trip required to catch back up with the rail.
In the US, passenger rail service is provided by amtrak.com
In Canada, it's viarail.ca
Then of course travel only with what you can comfortably carry and quickly
toss into a ride or a bus; probably a soft frame backpack.
Plan/prepare to never return to your starting point any time soon.
What is this about anyway? your Pluto transit? on top of Saturn return?
What are you now?, closing in on 28-30?
Don't look back. Go forward with consciousness as an explorer of your life
and the world around you. You'll love it forever.
<GENERAL.14-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. travel advice
DATE: 14-May-07 04:53:14
HOST: sverige
Beautiful Trip, barnacle!
I'd personally ditch the expense of car, insurance, maintenance, and fuel;
and look into a rail pass.
Note also, that when you get to Winnipeg, you can probably still take a
train up to Churchill on Hudson Bay. By the schedule I planned 20 yrs ago,
it arrived at 8am and departed at 8pm; plenty of time to see all the local
attractions and bars.
There's a ferry from Prince Rupert to Vancouver Island; and a bit of a bus
trip required to catch back up with the rail.
In the US, passenger rail service is provided by amtrak.com
In Canada, it's viarail.ca
Then of course travel only with what you can comfortably carry and quickly
toss into a ride or a bus; probably a soft frame backpack.
Plan/prepare to never return to your starting point any time soon.
What is this about anyway? your Pluto transit? on top of Saturn return?
What are you now?, closing in on 28-30?
Don't look back. Go forward with consciousness as an explorer of your life
and the world around you. You'll love it forever.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. travel advice
DATE: 14-May-07 12:03:11
HOST: sverige
A bus trip, and several hours in a bus station, are likely to be a rare
experience however; maybe one worth having once which should be easy enough
because they do go where trains don't.
A drivers license is handy for getting a rental every now and then.
<GENERAL.14-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. travel advice
DATE: 14-May-07 12:03:11
HOST: sverige
A bus trip, and several hours in a bus station, are likely to be a rare
experience however; maybe one worth having once which should be easy enough
because they do go where trains don't.
A drivers license is handy for getting a rental every now and then.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. travel advice
DATE: 14-May-07 20:41:53
HOST: sverige
"Schmidt"
<GENERAL.14-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. travel advice
DATE: 14-May-07 20:41:53
HOST: sverige
"Schmidt"
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. travel advice
DATE: 18-May-07 13:14:41
HOST: sverige
There are a lot of factors to take into account when deciding whether to
drive or take the train all the way across Canada.
Can you name the places where you wish to go and which you know do not
contain ANY way of getting there other than driving yourself?
Hitch-hiking isn't a lost art in the rural way-back.
There's a lot of places you can't take a car either :)
Do you enjoy meeting people along the way while riding, and waiting for,
public transportation? or asking for a ride? Or do you shell up inside of
your radioland and listen to your ipod while you keep the car on the road?
Or do you like to sit at a table in the lounge car watching the countryside
go by the window while you engage with others or have a beer?
This consideration illuminates another major benefit of not driving - the
enormous freedom from responsibilities to take care of, and find parking
for, the car, and the driver.
Damn pain in the ass really; its a burden.
<GENERAL.18-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. travel advice
DATE: 18-May-07 13:14:41
HOST: sverige
There are a lot of factors to take into account when deciding whether to
drive or take the train all the way across Canada.
Can you name the places where you wish to go and which you know do not
contain ANY way of getting there other than driving yourself?
Hitch-hiking isn't a lost art in the rural way-back.
There's a lot of places you can't take a car either :)
Do you enjoy meeting people along the way while riding, and waiting for,
public transportation? or asking for a ride? Or do you shell up inside of
your radioland and listen to your ipod while you keep the car on the road?
Or do you like to sit at a table in the lounge car watching the countryside
go by the window while you engage with others or have a beer?
This consideration illuminates another major benefit of not driving - the
enormous freedom from responsibilities to take care of, and find parking
for, the car, and the driver.
Damn pain in the ass really; its a burden.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Erin B. wins teh prize!
DATE: 15-Apr-07 20:45:25
HOST: sverige
Congratulations! Wow! Two Erins! :)
What did you do/submit to demonstrate your "commitment to environmental progress" ?
What will be your activity/project in Brazil?
It all sounds very exciting.
<GENERAL.15-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Erin B. wins teh prize!
DATE: 15-Apr-07 20:45:25
HOST: sverige
Congratulations! Wow! Two Erins! :)
What did you do/submit to demonstrate your "commitment to environmental progress" ?
What will be your activity/project in Brazil?
It all sounds very exciting.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is the NON dead?
DATE: 15-Nov-06 20:21:30
HOST: sverige
I hope, and think, that the NON is only dormant, waiting for enough support
to either motivate smj or wrest some of the initiative from his control.
Interested individuals are welcome to join the idle yet persistent group at
irc.chatspike.net #The_NON (SSL via :6668) and to post at
https://forum.nonnic.org/
<GENERAL.15-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is the NON dead?
DATE: 15-Nov-06 20:21:30
HOST: sverige
I hope, and think, that the NON is only dormant, waiting for enough support
to either motivate smj or wrest some of the initiative from his control.
Interested individuals are welcome to join the idle yet persistent group at
irc.chatspike.net #The_NON (SSL via :6668) and to post at
https://forum.nonnic.org/
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Where is my pine INBOX located?
DATE: 16-Oct-07 23:29:40
HOST: sverige
Really. $MAIL is not defined?
as ${LOGNAME:?}
or `logname`
?
Mail to SDF accounts comes to the mailspool at /var/mail/
into user accounts of /var/mail/$LOGNAME
Pine and other mail clients are generally, and at SDF, configured to look
at $MAIL (/var/mail/$LOGNAME} for new mail, and move it to their local file
or directory in $HOME/
At this moment, at least on 'sverige', both 'pine' and 'alpine' are
"working".
<GENERAL.16-Oct-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Where is my pine INBOX located?
DATE: 16-Oct-07 23:29:40
HOST: sverige
Really. $MAIL is not defined?
as ${LOGNAME:?}
or `logname`
?
Mail to SDF accounts comes to the mailspool at /var/mail/
into user accounts of /var/mail/$LOGNAME
Pine and other mail clients are generally, and at SDF, configured to look
at $MAIL (/var/mail/$LOGNAME} for new mail, and move it to their local file
or directory in $HOME/
At this moment, at least on 'sverige', both 'pine' and 'alpine' are
"working".
TACKER: jimleong (Jim Leong)
SUBJECT: .. Where is my pine INBOX located?
DATE: 17-Oct-07 14:21:58
HOST: sdf
I found my pine INBOX at the mail spool at /var/mail/"username" as a
avoyager and nitewing had stated.
THANY YOU ALL for your assistance.
<GENERAL.17-Oct-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: jimleong (Jim Leong)
SUBJECT: .. Where is my pine INBOX located?
DATE: 17-Oct-07 14:21:58
HOST: sdf
I found my pine INBOX at the mail spool at /var/mail/"username" as a
avoyager and nitewing had stated.
THANY YOU ALL for your assistance.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I need some advise
DATE: 16-Mar-07 18:22:56
HOST: sverige
Trolled again </sigh>
You have rights. You can continue to abandon them, or you can stand up
(grow up, that's part of what college is for) and assert them.
If you're too scared to do this, I expect you're also too scared to try out
for the team, or to request employment, or defend your position, or to
assert your responsibility, or to make up you mind about which shoes to
wear when it rains.
Stand up. Wash up. Face up. It's your life to live, not to watch go by.
<GENERAL.16-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I need some advise
DATE: 16-Mar-07 18:22:56
HOST: sverige
Trolled again </sigh>
You have rights. You can continue to abandon them, or you can stand up
(grow up, that's part of what college is for) and assert them.
If you're too scared to do this, I expect you're also too scared to try out
for the team, or to request employment, or defend your position, or to
assert your responsibility, or to make up you mind about which shoes to
wear when it rains.
Stand up. Wash up. Face up. It's your life to live, not to watch go by.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. SDF's club in China
DATE: 20-Apr-07 14:38:03
HOST: sverige
That's great to see about Dream Host, Mike. Their reputation is also quite
good that I've seen.
Congratulations indeed.
<GENERAL.20-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. SDF's club in China
DATE: 20-Apr-07 14:38:03
HOST: sverige
That's great to see about Dream Host, Mike. Their reputation is also quite
good that I've seen.
Congratulations indeed.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. search engine
DATE: 20-Jul-07 19:59:06
HOST: sverige
.<a href="
http://www.altavista.com/web/adv">AV</a>
.<a href="
http://www.alltheweb.com/">ATW</a>
.<a href="
http://mindset.research.yahoo.com/">MindSet</a>
.<a href="
http://eu.ixquick.com/eng/advanced_search.html">IX</a>
.<a href="
http://clusty.com/">Clusty</a>
.<a href="
http://www.ansearch.com/advanced">AN</a>
.<a href="
http://www.ask.com/">Ask</a>
and Wikipedia
<GENERAL.20-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. search engine
DATE: 20-Jul-07 19:59:06
HOST: sverige
.<a href="
http://www.altavista.com/web/adv">AV</a>
.<a href="
http://www.alltheweb.com/">ATW</a>
.<a href="
http://mindset.research.yahoo.com/">MindSet</a>
.<a href="
http://eu.ixquick.com/eng/advanced_search.html">IX</a>
.<a href="
http://clusty.com/">Clusty</a>
.<a href="
http://www.ansearch.com/advanced">AN</a>
.<a href="
http://www.ask.com/">Ask</a>
and Wikipedia
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why are we being DDoSed?
DATE: 20-Jun-07 01:01:05
HOST: sverige
Well, ... I have no specific details on the current activity; but what I do
see happen a LOT elsewhere is that botnet spammers will use completely
invented aliases in email addresses for legitimate domains, not so much for
recipients, but as forged senders; .....
and quite sadly there are still too many mail servers which accept the spam
first, analyze it, and then bounce it back to the forged senders.
What makes it a distributed DOS is that the connecting IPs are mostly mail
hosts sending bounced mail to forged senders, from f'n everywhere.
Now, again, I have NO information on what is currently taking place, but I
present the above description in part as an example of how these kinds of
misfortunes can be generated by a lot of just clue deprived system
operators, rather than a single malicious individual.
And of course there are a great variety of methods by which a DDOS can be
effected.
avo
---
<GENERAL.20-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why are we being DDoSed?
DATE: 20-Jun-07 01:01:05
HOST: sverige
Well, ... I have no specific details on the current activity; but what I do
see happen a LOT elsewhere is that botnet spammers will use completely
invented aliases in email addresses for legitimate domains, not so much for
recipients, but as forged senders; .....
and quite sadly there are still too many mail servers which accept the spam
first, analyze it, and then bounce it back to the forged senders.
What makes it a distributed DOS is that the connecting IPs are mostly mail
hosts sending bounced mail to forged senders, from f'n everywhere.
Now, again, I have NO information on what is currently taking place, but I
present the above description in part as an example of how these kinds of
misfortunes can be generated by a lot of just clue deprived system
operators, rather than a single malicious individual.
And of course there are a great variety of methods by which a DDOS can be
effected.
avo
---
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why are we being DDoSed?
DATE: 23-Jun-07 19:24:55
HOST: sverige
Maybe now would be a good time to observe 'nolisting' in action. It has
been highly successful in some high volume implementations.
http://www.joreybump.com/code/howto/nolisting.html
(and perhaps elsewhere)
.. and maybe only as a temporary configuration until the flood ebbs.
<GENERAL.23-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why are we being DDoSed?
DATE: 23-Jun-07 19:24:55
HOST: sverige
Maybe now would be a good time to observe 'nolisting' in action. It has
been highly successful in some high volume implementations.
http://www.joreybump.com/code/howto/nolisting.html
(and perhaps elsewhere)
.. and maybe only as a temporary configuration until the flood ebbs.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Thoughts about spam
DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:30:14
HOST: sverige
tmp, you overlooked something. Your 'tmp' account at SDF may bave been used
"before you".
take a look at the SDF util 'chklogin'
Julian, I expect that spam email harvesters have more efficient methods of
scraping together a "millions CD" than monitoring COM :)
Well known techniques used by anti-spam activists to seed email addresses
for use in spam-traps are: post to usenet; expose the address on a website
or in a maillto on a website; enter it into almost any online request form,
especially on the more obvious "FFA sites" (if those even still exist on
the Net), and use it in "(click|email) here to remove" schemes.
And, sadly, if you use it with correspondents who are in the unfortunate
habit of forwarding many fanciful emails to their entire address book,
always in the f'n open clear, and nesting within that all the forwarded
targets of the last umpteen generations of this thing which goes on
endlessly, it will become useless.
avo
---
<GENERAL.20-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Thoughts about spam
DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:30:14
HOST: sverige
tmp, you overlooked something. Your 'tmp' account at SDF may bave been used
"before you".
take a look at the SDF util 'chklogin'
Julian, I expect that spam email harvesters have more efficient methods of
scraping together a "millions CD" than monitoring COM :)
Well known techniques used by anti-spam activists to seed email addresses
for use in spam-traps are: post to usenet; expose the address on a website
or in a maillto on a website; enter it into almost any online request form,
especially on the more obvious "FFA sites" (if those even still exist on
the Net), and use it in "(click|email) here to remove" schemes.
And, sadly, if you use it with correspondents who are in the unfortunate
habit of forwarding many fanciful emails to their entire address book,
always in the f'n open clear, and nesting within that all the forwarded
targets of the last umpteen generations of this thing which goes on
endlessly, it will become useless.
avo
---
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. SDF User Map
DATE: 21-Jan-07 15:20:16
HOST: sverige
"tip" ?? on an oblate spheroid ?
<wink>
<GENERAL.21-Jan-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. SDF User Map
DATE: 21-Jan-07 15:20:16
HOST: sverige
"tip" ?? on an oblate spheroid ?
<wink>
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. reverse port test
DATE: 22-Jul-07 00:33:38
HOST: sverige
If I interpreted that correctly, you wish to discover which destination
ports your gateway is blocking on outbound traffic.
To do that, you need a remote host listening, and responding, on the ports
in question. Something like netcat might be useful for this, but only for a
few ports at a time of interest. The difficulty being that of having a
responder on many ports concurrently.
I doubt very much that there is a service for that.
Another way comes to mind ... You could run nmap on your side and send
outbound packets to every remote port of concern, targeting my host as
remote; then I scan my firewall logs to see which were hit and which
weren't.
Which brings to mind the image of you just firing up netcat to test ports
at some remote IP which would always respond "closed" rather than drop
packet without response "blocked". But you'd have to coordinate this with
the remote as well.
Make sense? Still want to proceed?
avo
---
<GENERAL.22-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. reverse port test
DATE: 22-Jul-07 00:33:38
HOST: sverige
If I interpreted that correctly, you wish to discover which destination
ports your gateway is blocking on outbound traffic.
To do that, you need a remote host listening, and responding, on the ports
in question. Something like netcat might be useful for this, but only for a
few ports at a time of interest. The difficulty being that of having a
responder on many ports concurrently.
I doubt very much that there is a service for that.
Another way comes to mind ... You could run nmap on your side and send
outbound packets to every remote port of concern, targeting my host as
remote; then I scan my firewall logs to see which were hit and which
weren't.
Which brings to mind the image of you just firing up netcat to test ports
at some remote IP which would always respond "closed" rather than drop
packet without response "blocked". But you'd have to coordinate this with
the remote as well.
Make sense? Still want to proceed?
avo
---
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Phishermen beware - Alpine warns of deceptive links
DATE: 22-Jun-07 18:34:41
HOST: sverige
"Does anyone know of any other email clients that have such a cool
feature?"
Sure. All text based html-allergic MUAs offer this feature without effort.
"Clicking on" email .... what a lame idea.
<GENERAL.22-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Phishermen beware - Alpine warns of deceptive links
DATE: 22-Jun-07 18:34:41
HOST: sverige
"Does anyone know of any other email clients that have such a cool
feature?"
Sure. All text based html-allergic MUAs offer this feature without effort.
"Clicking on" email .... what a lame idea.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something
DATE: 23-Sep-07 17:18:13
HOST: sverige
I'm seriously curious about this; not trying to pick any fights or wage any
arguments.
What makes music from outfits which take your money (for instance, emusic)
more "legal" than music from p2p or your neighbor?
Do you actually believe that the recipient of your money (for example,
emusic) has some peculiar "right of ownership" to that music which entitles
*them* to your money?
Do you actually believe that some of your money goes to the music artists?
What about dead artists? Who gets their money from this?, and why?
Do you have answers to these questions? or do you just feel cleaner when
you exchange away something for something received?
And why doesn't exchanging one song for another qualify?
Seriously.
--avo
<GENERAL.23-Sep-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something
DATE: 23-Sep-07 17:18:13
HOST: sverige
I'm seriously curious about this; not trying to pick any fights or wage any
arguments.
What makes music from outfits which take your money (for instance, emusic)
more "legal" than music from p2p or your neighbor?
Do you actually believe that the recipient of your money (for example,
emusic) has some peculiar "right of ownership" to that music which entitles
*them* to your money?
Do you actually believe that some of your money goes to the music artists?
What about dead artists? Who gets their money from this?, and why?
Do you have answers to these questions? or do you just feel cleaner when
you exchange away something for something received?
And why doesn't exchanging one song for another qualify?
Seriously.
--avo
TACKER: mgardner (Michael Gardner)
SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something
DATE: 23-Sep-07 22:58:29
HOST: sdf
avoyager,
I believe they are concerned as to whether the music sharing is "legal".
If it's "legal", then men with guns won't come and attempt to seize your
money, property, or person for doing it. I could be wrong, but I suspect
that the moral implications are a secondary concern in the case of file
sharing. We aren't talking about murder or robbery here.
Mike
<GENERAL.23-Sep-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: mgardner (Michael Gardner)
SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something
DATE: 23-Sep-07 22:58:29
HOST: sdf
avoyager,
I believe they are concerned as to whether the music sharing is "legal".
If it's "legal", then men with guns won't come and attempt to seize your
money, property, or person for doing it. I could be wrong, but I suspect
that the moral implications are a secondary concern in the case of file
sharing. We aren't talking about murder or robbery here.
Mike
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something
DATE: 25-Sep-07 20:35:31
HOST: sverige
James: thank you very much for the detailed explanation. It would seem,
without doing much significant research, that
1) users of pay for music sites take it for granted that those sites do in
fact have a payout accounting which is acceptable to every entity which
claims ownership rights to every song sold. That seems like a helluva lot
of administrative effort.
2) users of peer networks may not accept the claimed rights, especially in
perpetuity, of third parties to music, or perhaps other intellectual
property; for any number of reasonable even legal reasons, including for
instance that the original contract between recording label and artist was
sufficiently imbalanced and coercive as to be self-nullifying in some
states; or possibly that the collusion of the recording industry and the
radio broadcast industry created an effective monopolistic environment
which was prejudicial against the artists.
3) perhaps there are just as many scofflaws as there are bad laws ?
OK.
Thanks again.
<GENERAL.25-Sep-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something
DATE: 25-Sep-07 20:35:31
HOST: sverige
James: thank you very much for the detailed explanation. It would seem,
without doing much significant research, that
1) users of pay for music sites take it for granted that those sites do in
fact have a payout accounting which is acceptable to every entity which
claims ownership rights to every song sold. That seems like a helluva lot
of administrative effort.
2) users of peer networks may not accept the claimed rights, especially in
perpetuity, of third parties to music, or perhaps other intellectual
property; for any number of reasonable even legal reasons, including for
instance that the original contract between recording label and artist was
sufficiently imbalanced and coercive as to be self-nullifying in some
states; or possibly that the collusion of the recording industry and the
radio broadcast industry created an effective monopolistic environment
which was prejudicial against the artists.
3) perhaps there are just as many scofflaws as there are bad laws ?
OK.
Thanks again.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I received a spam that didn't even have a "To." header
DATE: 25-Jul-07 03:51:42
HOST: sverige
All header fields are optional, and forgable. During the SMTP transaction
which delivers the mail, they are DATA content with the message body. The
SMTP transaction utilizes separate "envelope" sender and recipient fields.
<GENERAL.25-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I received a spam that didn't even have a "To." header
DATE: 25-Jul-07 03:51:42
HOST: sverige
All header fields are optional, and forgable. During the SMTP transaction
which delivers the mail, they are DATA content with the message body. The
SMTP transaction utilizes separate "envelope" sender and recipient fields.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I received a spam that didn't even have a "To." header
DATE: 25-Jul-07 18:39:30
HOST: sverige
"So when you send an email the To, From, Date details are entered twice,
once in the header for display purposes and once in the body which is used
to send the email."
Correction: header and body are both DATA; the delivery destination is the
"envelope recipient".
If the OP would like to post the full headers of the MIQ then a complete
analysis will be possible.
<GENERAL.25-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I received a spam that didn't even have a "To." header
DATE: 25-Jul-07 18:39:30
HOST: sverige
"So when you send an email the To, From, Date details are entered twice,
once in the header for display purposes and once in the body which is used
to send the email."
Correction: header and body are both DATA; the delivery destination is the
"envelope recipient".
If the OP would like to post the full headers of the MIQ then a complete
analysis will be possible.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again...
DATE: 27-May-07 13:56:24
HOST: sverige
I just want to say, briefly, that "the Genesis account" continues to be
fundamentally [pun intended] misrepresented in these base and literal
presentations.
The Biblical mythologies are indeed "The Word of God" and are fully
supportive, and a beautiful representation, of the facts and science of
evolution and paleontology.
Some people just can't see beyond their own petty little orbs of mundanity
to appreciate it.
Yet.
<GENERAL.27-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again...
DATE: 27-May-07 13:56:24
HOST: sverige
I just want to say, briefly, that "the Genesis account" continues to be
fundamentally [pun intended] misrepresented in these base and literal
presentations.
The Biblical mythologies are indeed "The Word of God" and are fully
supportive, and a beautiful representation, of the facts and science of
evolution and paleontology.
Some people just can't see beyond their own petty little orbs of mundanity
to appreciate it.
Yet.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again...
DATE: 27-May-07 18:25:31
HOST: sverige
>> The Biblical mythologies are indeed "The Word of God" and are fully
>> supportive, and a beautiful representation, of the facts and science of
>> evolution and paleontology.
> Would you care to show me where the Bible speaks about dinosaurs? ...
Andrea, please note that I said "supportive", not "illustrative".
I'm not going to ask you for a text which speaks about both dinosaurs and
quantum physics.
But do notice in the first Chapter of Genesis the evolutionary sequences of
life; and dinosaurs would be included as a "living creature".
But that would hardly matter to the Creationists who insist that God wiped
them all out shortly thereafter, save for those floated away to safety by
some drunk [9:21] with a boat who immediately burned half of them upon
landing. [Gen.8:20]
For quantum physics you can look at the contest between Moses and Aaron
with the Pharoh and his sorcerers in the second chapter Exodus, and all the
other "tricks" those guys did with their rod before parting the Red Sea for
crossing along the bottom thereof.
Even then you'd likely be missing the point somewhat :)
Thanks for caring,
<GENERAL.27-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again...
DATE: 27-May-07 18:25:31
HOST: sverige
>> The Biblical mythologies are indeed "The Word of God" and are fully
>> supportive, and a beautiful representation, of the facts and science of
>> evolution and paleontology.
> Would you care to show me where the Bible speaks about dinosaurs? ...
Andrea, please note that I said "supportive", not "illustrative".
I'm not going to ask you for a text which speaks about both dinosaurs and
quantum physics.
But do notice in the first Chapter of Genesis the evolutionary sequences of
life; and dinosaurs would be included as a "living creature".
But that would hardly matter to the Creationists who insist that God wiped
them all out shortly thereafter, save for those floated away to safety by
some drunk [9:21] with a boat who immediately burned half of them upon
landing. [Gen.8:20]
For quantum physics you can look at the contest between Moses and Aaron
with the Pharoh and his sorcerers in the second chapter Exodus, and all the
other "tricks" those guys did with their rod before parting the Red Sea for
crossing along the bottom thereof.
Even then you'd likely be missing the point somewhat :)
Thanks for caring,
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again...
DATE: 27-May-07 18:56:55
HOST: sverige
Barnacle, the term "Christian" is today about as ambiguous as "liberal".
What I find notable about both is the blatant hypocrisy which they expose.
The loudest self-proclaimed "Christians" demonstrate almost zero capacity
for brotherhood, kindness, peacefulness or other traits exemplefied and
mandated by their Lord Jesus Christ who clearly promoted the Ten
Commandments as lifestyle requirements. These are the people who invented
genocide and lynchings for cryin out loud.
Not without overlap, are that group who accuse, with vile and venom, peace
and love hippies of weird things like "hatred" for their Presidente or
their Flag or their Country. Man, you want to see "hatred" keep an eye on
those who accuse others of that particular ailment.
The principal difficulty with spirituality and religious text, alluded to
by you and by Pedro, is that they don't deal with or within the constraints
of time and space. That in and of itself isn't the difficulty. The
difficulty is that WE are mostly stuck within time and space.
That's why you find so many anti-theology types demanding that spiritual
matters be expressed and explained to them in their own limited universe of
language and understanding. They want others to describe the non-physical
to them with a vocabulary limted to physical understanding. Don't bother.
But if you want to hear some real gobbley-gook, ask a "Christian" to
explain "blood of the lamb" and "died for our sins" in ANY rational way,
and watch their sanity disintegrate.
Or maybe they'll just say, you must have unwavering and unquestionable
"faith" in their Presidente. In which case you can also just walk away.
<GENERAL.27-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again...
DATE: 27-May-07 18:56:55
HOST: sverige
Barnacle, the term "Christian" is today about as ambiguous as "liberal".
What I find notable about both is the blatant hypocrisy which they expose.
The loudest self-proclaimed "Christians" demonstrate almost zero capacity
for brotherhood, kindness, peacefulness or other traits exemplefied and
mandated by their Lord Jesus Christ who clearly promoted the Ten
Commandments as lifestyle requirements. These are the people who invented
genocide and lynchings for cryin out loud.
Not without overlap, are that group who accuse, with vile and venom, peace
and love hippies of weird things like "hatred" for their Presidente or
their Flag or their Country. Man, you want to see "hatred" keep an eye on
those who accuse others of that particular ailment.
The principal difficulty with spirituality and religious text, alluded to
by you and by Pedro, is that they don't deal with or within the constraints
of time and space. That in and of itself isn't the difficulty. The
difficulty is that WE are mostly stuck within time and space.
That's why you find so many anti-theology types demanding that spiritual
matters be expressed and explained to them in their own limited universe of
language and understanding. They want others to describe the non-physical
to them with a vocabulary limted to physical understanding. Don't bother.
But if you want to hear some real gobbley-gook, ask a "Christian" to
explain "blood of the lamb" and "died for our sins" in ANY rational way,
and watch their sanity disintegrate.
Or maybe they'll just say, you must have unwavering and unquestionable
"faith" in their Presidente. In which case you can also just walk away.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again...
DATE: 28-May-07 02:49:12
HOST: sverige
Religion isn't really an aberation; just about every culture at any place
on the planet throughout all of recorded history has developed, or found,
at least one.
It's probably been around longer than science.
It's not really in conflict with science. Both are tools men use to help
understand their life experiences. It's a mistake of man, not of religion
or science, when the wrong tool is used for an application.
I have little patience however for folks who discredit that which they
don't understand. Men of science and religion do know better than to do
that. It's the pretenders who issue forth self-righteous contempt, and have
such shallow understanding and deep mis-understanding.
<GENERAL.28-May-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again...
DATE: 28-May-07 02:49:12
HOST: sverige
Religion isn't really an aberation; just about every culture at any place
on the planet throughout all of recorded history has developed, or found,
at least one.
It's probably been around longer than science.
It's not really in conflict with science. Both are tools men use to help
understand their life experiences. It's a mistake of man, not of religion
or science, when the wrong tool is used for an application.
I have little patience however for folks who discredit that which they
don't understand. Men of science and religion do know better than to do
that. It's the pretenders who issue forth self-righteous contempt, and have
such shallow understanding and deep mis-understanding.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. an interesting SDF stat
DATE: 26-Sep-07 02:11:55
HOST: sverige
$ chklogin -t
Results based on mail logs for the past 120 days
userid total daily-avg
0.00
[email protected] 25006 208.38
[email protected] 14441 120.34
[email protected] 8888 74.07
[email protected] 8316 69.30
[email protected] 7701 64.17
[email protected] 5820 48.50
[email protected] 5596 46.63
[email protected] 5355 44.62
[email protected] 5063 42.19
[email protected] 4953 41.27
[email protected] 4935 41.12
[email protected] 4775 39.79
[email protected] 4223 35.19
[email protected] 3606 30.05
[email protected] 3590 29.92
[email protected] 3554 29.62
[email protected] 3256 27.13
[email protected] 3206 26.72
[email protected] 3097 25.81
-----------------
heh! user '..'
<GENERAL.26-Sep-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. an interesting SDF stat
DATE: 26-Sep-07 02:11:55
HOST: sverige
$ chklogin -t
Results based on mail logs for the past 120 days
userid total daily-avg
0.00
[email protected] 25006 208.38
[email protected] 14441 120.34
[email protected] 8888 74.07
[email protected] 8316 69.30
[email protected] 7701 64.17
[email protected] 5820 48.50
[email protected] 5596 46.63
[email protected] 5355 44.62
[email protected] 5063 42.19
[email protected] 4953 41.27
[email protected] 4935 41.12
[email protected] 4775 39.79
[email protected] 4223 35.19
[email protected] 3606 30.05
[email protected] 3590 29.92
[email protected] 3554 29.62
[email protected] 3256 27.13
[email protected] 3206 26.72
[email protected] 3097 25.81
-----------------
heh! user '..'
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Classical cryptography help
DATE: 28-Jul-07 15:45:28
HOST: sverige
"I'm looking for a simple technique I can use to encrypt several
sequences of numbers of different lengths with pen and paper. And I want
to be able to look at the ciphertext and decrypt it reasonably quickly
in my head, or at least with a pen and paper."
Restricting my response to dealing with characters in the range 0..9, I
offer thinking about a solution which is some clever derivation of ...
Number in Question (NIQ) = 876543
As a "key" select a number sequence of any length which you won't forget.
[657] ... the length of which, N, is [3]
Insert this key, in any sequence of characters, before the NIQ.
= 576876543
Consider the value of the Nth inserted character of your key, in this case
6. Insert that many random characters between the key and the NIQ.
= 576......876543
7. Consider the value of the 1st inserted character of your key, in this
case 5. Append that many more random characters to the end of the NIQ.
= 576......876543.....
8. Append any sequence of your key digits again.
= 576......876543.....657
9. Pad beginning and end of numeric string with random digits which do not
fit the "key search" used to identify the locations of your "key" in the
cryptonumber.
Things to remember: 1.how it works; and 2.the key
Decode:
remove leading and trailing digits which don't fit the "key search".
read the first key for padding information
remove keys and padding
optionally reverse/rotate the NIQ (if you did so during encryption)
There are a ton of variants to this which should be easy and fun to
discover. Mix in and strip non-numeric characters for additional
obfuscation. Add an indicator for whether and what amount of rotation or
reversal is applied. On and on.
I *think*, and am remotely curious to know if, baseball coaches use
something like this with their hand signals.
avo
---
imagination at work here
<GENERAL.28-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Classical cryptography help
DATE: 28-Jul-07 15:45:28
HOST: sverige
"I'm looking for a simple technique I can use to encrypt several
sequences of numbers of different lengths with pen and paper. And I want
to be able to look at the ciphertext and decrypt it reasonably quickly
in my head, or at least with a pen and paper."
Restricting my response to dealing with characters in the range 0..9, I
offer thinking about a solution which is some clever derivation of ...
Number in Question (NIQ) = 876543
As a "key" select a number sequence of any length which you won't forget.
[657] ... the length of which, N, is [3]
Insert this key, in any sequence of characters, before the NIQ.
= 576876543
Consider the value of the Nth inserted character of your key, in this case
6. Insert that many random characters between the key and the NIQ.
= 576......876543
7. Consider the value of the 1st inserted character of your key, in this
case 5. Append that many more random characters to the end of the NIQ.
= 576......876543.....
8. Append any sequence of your key digits again.
= 576......876543.....657
9. Pad beginning and end of numeric string with random digits which do not
fit the "key search" used to identify the locations of your "key" in the
cryptonumber.
Things to remember: 1.how it works; and 2.the key
Decode:
remove leading and trailing digits which don't fit the "key search".
read the first key for padding information
remove keys and padding
optionally reverse/rotate the NIQ (if you did so during encryption)
There are a ton of variants to this which should be easy and fun to
discover. Mix in and strip non-numeric characters for additional
obfuscation. Add an indicator for whether and what amount of rotation or
reversal is applied. On and on.
I *think*, and am remotely curious to know if, baseball coaches use
something like this with their hand signals.
avo
---
imagination at work here
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Spam is coming back .(
DATE: 28-Mar-07 17:54:01
HOST: sverige
The headers should show clues; maybe something about a "delay". Maybe you
should check that your greylisting is still active?
"Nolisting" (search the REQUEST board this year) has been known to be very
effective also; but that, similar to greylisting, requires an admin level
implementation.
<GENERAL.28-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Spam is coming back .(
DATE: 28-Mar-07 17:54:01
HOST: sverige
The headers should show clues; maybe something about a "delay". Maybe you
should check that your greylisting is still active?
"Nolisting" (search the REQUEST board this year) has been known to be very
effective also; but that, similar to greylisting, requires an admin level
implementation.
......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bayes like mailfilter available?
DATE: 02-Apr-07 02:47:41
HOST: sverige
In support of jboy's comments, I wish to add the following with regard to
sparing yourself from spam sent to your email accounts.
The very firstest bestest solution is to dispose of email aliaes which
receive spam, and implenent another. It's not nearly as ridiculous as folks
make it out to be.
The second best line of defense is server filtering at the MX which leave
the spam on the sending system.
After the MX has accepted it, you have to use resource intensive, and less
effective, filtering, at the user level.
Forwarding it somewhere else for filtering just adds that much extra burden
to both the forwarder and the forwardee.
Forwarding it to a community shared resource such as SDF, for spam
filtering, is wholly inappropriate, in that it burdens others because of
your failure to implement steps one and two above.
If that's unclear, I'm sure that I and others will be willing to clarify,
so feel free to inquire or dialog right here.
Thanks for your understanding.
<HELPDESK.02-Apr-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bayes like mailfilter available?
DATE: 02-Apr-07 02:47:41
HOST: sverige
In support of jboy's comments, I wish to add the following with regard to
sparing yourself from spam sent to your email accounts.
The very firstest bestest solution is to dispose of email aliaes which
receive spam, and implenent another. It's not nearly as ridiculous as folks
make it out to be.
The second best line of defense is server filtering at the MX which leave
the spam on the sending system.
After the MX has accepted it, you have to use resource intensive, and less
effective, filtering, at the user level.
Forwarding it somewhere else for filtering just adds that much extra burden
to both the forwarder and the forwardee.
Forwarding it to a community shared resource such as SDF, for spam
filtering, is wholly inappropriate, in that it burdens others because of
your failure to implement steps one and two above.
If that's unclear, I'm sure that I and others will be willing to clarify,
so feel free to inquire or dialog right here.
Thanks for your understanding.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. screen keeps terminating
DATE: 01-Jul-07 21:06:46
HOST: sverige
My observation would be to check the uptime not of your host but of 'ol';
even though /tmp is on the local host. In my experience, loss of screen is
associated with loss of connection, and short term rejection of connection
attempt failures referenced in the GENERAL board about connection attempts
not being accepted, and with some experiences of connections being dropped,
and with upgrades to the 'ol' host upon which this entire operation
depends.
It is my understanding from spurious posts by the boss, that upgrades are
taking place there, and that the community should regard these brief
situations as a good thing requiring money.
Thanks for not panicing :)
<HELPDESK.01-Jul-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. screen keeps terminating
DATE: 01-Jul-07 21:06:46
HOST: sverige
My observation would be to check the uptime not of your host but of 'ol';
even though /tmp is on the local host. In my experience, loss of screen is
associated with loss of connection, and short term rejection of connection
attempt failures referenced in the GENERAL board about connection attempts
not being accepted, and with some experiences of connections being dropped,
and with upgrades to the 'ol' host upon which this entire operation
depends.
It is my understanding from spurious posts by the boss, that upgrades are
taking place there, and that the community should regard these brief
situations as a good thing requiring money.
Thanks for not panicing :)
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Use of webmail moved my mail?
DATE: 01-Mar-07 04:23:26
HOST: sverige
I haven't used any webmail here at SDF, but you might find your referenced
messages somewhere in your SDF $HOME
The /var/mail/ spool ($MAIL) is the deposit point (mailbox) used by the
incoming mailhost. Many (most?) mail clients move it from there to an mbox
or maildir in their userdir ($HOME).
Again, I don't know exactly how its done at SDF however.
<HELPDESK.01-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Use of webmail moved my mail?
DATE: 01-Mar-07 04:23:26
HOST: sverige
I haven't used any webmail here at SDF, but you might find your referenced
messages somewhere in your SDF $HOME
The /var/mail/ spool ($MAIL) is the deposit point (mailbox) used by the
incoming mailhost. Many (most?) mail clients move it from there to an mbox
or maildir in their userdir ($HOME).
Again, I don't know exactly how its done at SDF however.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Domain names
DATE: 01-Mar-07 21:52:14
HOST: sverige
Since you asked, and I don't know you to be a troll, ..
"Is there any way to get a text-file of all the registered
domains at say, .com"
I doubt it; but please let us know if you find one.
"I just want to see what's been registered by grepping some enormous file."
I think that using the online whois databases with local client will be far
faster; until perhaps you database and index your text file and use a query
tool rather than grep; but then this optimization has already been done for
you :)
"It'd be fun."
Really? For, um, how long, do you think it'd be fun?
<HELPDESK.01-Mar-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Domain names
DATE: 01-Mar-07 21:52:14
HOST: sverige
Since you asked, and I don't know you to be a troll, ..
"Is there any way to get a text-file of all the registered
domains at say, .com"
I doubt it; but please let us know if you find one.
"I just want to see what's been registered by grepping some enormous file."
I think that using the online whois databases with local client will be far
faster; until perhaps you database and index your text file and use a query
tool rather than grep; but then this optimization has already been done for
you :)
"It'd be fun."
Really? For, um, how long, do you think it'd be fun?
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip
DATE: 02-Dec-06 16:29:22
HOST: sverige
It probably didn't come from SDF. Perhaps you could make the original raw
message file (with attachment included) available for us to examine.
<HELPDESK.02-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip
DATE: 02-Dec-06 16:29:22
HOST: sverige
It probably didn't come from SDF. Perhaps you could make the original raw
message file (with attachment included) available for us to examine.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip
DATE: 03-Dec-06 18:36:03
HOST: sverige
interperating the header:
Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([85.187.163.100])
by sdf.lonestar.org (8.13.5.20060308/8.13.8) with ESMTP id
kB3GpPrH004431
the connecting IP is 85.187.163.100 which is not SDF
the HELO/EHLO given was "sdf.lonestar.org" <<-- falsified, a common spammer
trick.
The "From:" header is similarly, and regularly, trivially forged.
OK. So now we know that this did NOT come from SDF; which we knew anyway
because we know SDF, but now there's objective evidence.
Now, I'll go try to see if I can find a base64 decoder to inspect the .zip
...
<HELPDESK.03-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip
DATE: 03-Dec-06 18:36:03
HOST: sverige
interperating the header:
Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([85.187.163.100])
by sdf.lonestar.org (8.13.5.20060308/8.13.8) with ESMTP id
kB3GpPrH004431
the connecting IP is 85.187.163.100 which is not SDF
the HELO/EHLO given was "sdf.lonestar.org" <<-- falsified, a common spammer
trick.
The "From:" header is similarly, and regularly, trivially forged.
OK. So now we know that this did NOT come from SDF; which we knew anyway
because we know SDF, but now there's objective evidence.
Now, I'll go try to see if I can find a base64 decoder to inspect the .zip
...
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip
DATE: 03-Dec-06 18:50:11
HOST: sverige
$ cat raw_msg |decode-base64 >decoded
$ unzip -v decoded
Archive: decoded
warning [decoded]: 708 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile
(attempting to process anyway)
Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name
-------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ----
28864 Stored 28864 0% 12-03-06 16:51 df868036 text.exe
-------- ------- --- -------
28864 28864 0% 1 file
$ unzip decoded
Archive: decoded
warning [decoded]: 708 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile
(attempting to process anyway)
extracting: text.exe
$ file text.exe
text.exe: MS-DOS executable (EXE), OS/2 or MS Windows
but I don't recommend that you run it.
<HELPDESK.03-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip
DATE: 03-Dec-06 18:50:11
HOST: sverige
$ cat raw_msg |decode-base64 >decoded
$ unzip -v decoded
Archive: decoded
warning [decoded]: 708 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile
(attempting to process anyway)
Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name
-------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ----
28864 Stored 28864 0% 12-03-06 16:51 df868036 text.exe
-------- ------- --- -------
28864 28864 0% 1 file
$ unzip decoded
Archive: decoded
warning [decoded]: 708 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile
(attempting to process anyway)
extracting: text.exe
$ file text.exe
text.exe: MS-DOS executable (EXE), OS/2 or MS Windows
but I don't recommend that you run it.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip
DATE: 05-Dec-06 01:37:05
HOST: sverige
Tibor,
Prior comments apply to your message as well. Spammer falsified
envelope-from, HELO, and header From:
It is NOT from SDF
<HELPDESK.05-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip
DATE: 05-Dec-06 01:37:05
HOST: sverige
Tibor,
Prior comments apply to your message as well. Spammer falsified
envelope-from, HELO, and header From:
It is NOT from SDF
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. problem with outgoing mail
DATE: 03-Nov-06 15:16:35
HOST: sverige
By the way, the most common cause of mail gone missing is when the
recipient server (not user) applys filtering which accepts mail and then
deletes it without delivery. The second most common is probably user
filters which inadvertently catch something.
That's not to say anything about the experiences already stated here by SDF
users. I don't know what happened to those. I'm only mentioning the most
probable scenarios.
Another possibility might be that the recipient server accepted the mail,
and then attempted to bounce it back to SDF, and that the bounce was for
some reason rejected by SDF server or user filter.
The most least likely possibility is that the SDF mail server just "lost"
one message out of every few thousand; but in an nfs glitch maybe that
could happen, I don't knoow.
I would suggest however that a polite request of smj to check the log for
status report, giving him good data about time, recipient, and sender;
while realizing that you're asking him to do something for nothing when he
gets the chance; might be well received.
Now, I wonder if a membership level would be appropriate for receiving mail
logs relative to the user, grepped out during logrotate; together with http
logs.
<HELPDESK.03-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. problem with outgoing mail
DATE: 03-Nov-06 15:16:35
HOST: sverige
By the way, the most common cause of mail gone missing is when the
recipient server (not user) applys filtering which accepts mail and then
deletes it without delivery. The second most common is probably user
filters which inadvertently catch something.
That's not to say anything about the experiences already stated here by SDF
users. I don't know what happened to those. I'm only mentioning the most
probable scenarios.
Another possibility might be that the recipient server accepted the mail,
and then attempted to bounce it back to SDF, and that the bounce was for
some reason rejected by SDF server or user filter.
The most least likely possibility is that the SDF mail server just "lost"
one message out of every few thousand; but in an nfs glitch maybe that
could happen, I don't knoow.
I would suggest however that a polite request of smj to check the log for
status report, giving him good data about time, recipient, and sender;
while realizing that you're asking him to do something for nothing when he
gets the chance; might be well received.
Now, I wonder if a membership level would be appropriate for receiving mail
logs relative to the user, grepped out during logrotate; together with http
logs.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail
DATE: 05-Nov-06 02:18:10
HOST: sverige
man biff
<HELPDESK.05-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail
DATE: 05-Nov-06 02:18:10
HOST: sverige
man biff
TACKER: dkp (David Patton)
SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail
DATE: 06-Nov-06 19:45:51
HOST: sdf
avoyager -
my understanding of biff is that you get notifications for your current
session, but not for new messages on login.
-dkp
<HELPDESK.06-Nov-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: dkp (David Patton)
SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail
DATE: 06-Nov-06 19:45:51
HOST: sdf
avoyager -
my understanding of biff is that you get notifications for your current
session, but not for new messages on login.
-dkp
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Specific greylist question
DATE: 05-Dec-06 13:42:28
HOST: sverige
Greylisting deferrs the connecting IP. In your example, that'd be your
department. If they, your department, make contact with the original sender
for any reason, can't be known from here. You'll have to ask them.
The chances are that they wouldn't, because they accepted the mail to you,
and your local filtering sent it on to SDF, rather than their server
relaying it directly; but I don't know the details of how you and they
implement the forwarding.
In which case, if the department wants to notify someone of the mail not
being delivered, it would notify your department account, which should be
the sender. You can verify this by examining the email you receive without
greylisting. Ignore all header lines in the forwarded mail. Those aren't
examined by greylisting.
The current header is separated from the message body (which would include
the forwarded message) by a blank line. The current header is hidden by
most mail client configurations. You can see the raw files of your
incoming mail by 'cat $MAIL' or 'cat $MAIL |ls'.
SDF would not contact the original sender, or even the department,
directly.
<HELPDESK.05-Dec-06>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Specific greylist question
DATE: 05-Dec-06 13:42:28
HOST: sverige
Greylisting deferrs the connecting IP. In your example, that'd be your
department. If they, your department, make contact with the original sender
for any reason, can't be known from here. You'll have to ask them.
The chances are that they wouldn't, because they accepted the mail to you,
and your local filtering sent it on to SDF, rather than their server
relaying it directly; but I don't know the details of how you and they
implement the forwarding.
In which case, if the department wants to notify someone of the mail not
being delivered, it would notify your department account, which should be
the sender. You can verify this by examining the email you receive without
greylisting. Ignore all header lines in the forwarded mail. Those aren't
examined by greylisting.
The current header is separated from the message body (which would include
the forwarded message) by a blank line. The current header is hidden by
most mail client configurations. You can see the raw files of your
incoming mail by 'cat $MAIL' or 'cat $MAIL |ls'.
SDF would not contact the original sender, or even the department,
directly.
.TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. greylist and silly servers
DATE: 06-Feb-07 21:40:11
HOST: sdf
I think you misread the message.
Postfix was the sending agent.
SDF was the receiving agent, and delivered a temporary (4xx) rather than
permanent (5xx) "undeliverable" response code.
Nothing really needs to be done. Postfix will resend the message and it
will be accepted.
RFCs are abundant. For SMTP see
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt
<HELPDESK.06-Feb-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. greylist and silly servers
DATE: 06-Feb-07 21:40:11
HOST: sdf
I think you misread the message.
Postfix was the sending agent.
SDF was the receiving agent, and delivered a temporary (4xx) rather than
permanent (5xx) "undeliverable" response code.
Nothing really needs to be done. Postfix will resend the message and it
will be accepted.
RFCs are abundant. For SMTP see
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "You have mail" notification when inbox is EMPTY?
DATE: 07-Jun-07 16:03:26
HOST: sverige
jboy, how do you know it's pine? It seems I've seen this as a consequence
of [any?] imap client; even when pine wasn't used; and that I don't
necessarily see it with pine.
???
<HELPDESK.07-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. "You have mail" notification when inbox is EMPTY?
DATE: 07-Jun-07 16:03:26
HOST: sverige
jboy, how do you know it's pine? It seems I've seen this as a consequence
of [any?] imap client; even when pine wasn't used; and that I don't
necessarily see it with pine.
???
..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Pager word wrap?
DATE: 10-Jan-07 14:38:19
HOST: sverige
I've been using text editors for this purpose.
<HELPDESK.10-Jan-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Pager word wrap?
DATE: 10-Jan-07 14:38:19
HOST: sverige
I've been using text editors for this purpose.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. VPM of my own mail domain?
DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:51:12
HOST: sverige
It's not so hard to figure out and understand. Really. You're just stuck.
Typing 'vhost' will tell you or point to (i.e. VPM) just about everything.
To host your domain name, use VHOST.
To have multiple email aliases in multiple domains, use VPM. The domains
are registered to SDF, but they're bill.beevomit.org unique.
I don't think there's another way or membership level by which you can have
[the mail for] your personal domain hosted here than VHOST; but if I'm
overlooking it, somebody will point it out. Perhaps even yourself.
You pay first; then activation tools become available to you.
<HELPDESK.10-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. VPM of my own mail domain?
DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:51:12
HOST: sverige
It's not so hard to figure out and understand. Really. You're just stuck.
Typing 'vhost' will tell you or point to (i.e. VPM) just about everything.
To host your domain name, use VHOST.
To have multiple email aliases in multiple domains, use VPM. The domains
are registered to SDF, but they're bill.beevomit.org unique.
I don't think there's another way or membership level by which you can have
[the mail for] your personal domain hosted here than VHOST; but if I'm
overlooking it, somebody will point it out. Perhaps even yourself.
You pay first; then activation tools become available to you.
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Where to send FAQ updates/requests?
DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:23:25
HOST: sverige
to the REQUESTS board :)
seriously
<HELPDESK.10-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Where to send FAQ updates/requests?
DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:23:25
HOST: sverige
to the REQUESTS board :)
seriously
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bboard web interface / other useful reference material poin
DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:37:12
HOST: sverige
Actually, once you get used to bboard, and to the shell and command line
interface (CLI), you may find that access via the web is actually much more
cumbersome ... too much mouse .... takes the fingers away from the keyboard
where real work gets done :)
You might want to browse the web for unix/bsd/linux tutorials however;
there's probably several.
I tood some notes ....
http://avoyager.freeshell.org/SDF_notes.html
It looks like vosi's wiki is offline
and it's safe and educational to explore the file system
Welcome!
<HELPDESK.10-Jun-07>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. bboard web interface / other useful reference material poin
DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:37:12
HOST: sverige
Actually, once you get used to bboard, and to the shell and command line
interface (CLI), you may find that access via the web is actually much more
cumbersome ... too much mouse .... takes the fingers away from the keyboard
where real work gets done :)
You might want to browse the web for unix/bsd/linux tutorials however;
there's probably several.
I tood some notes ....
http://avoyager.freeshell.org/SDF_notes.html
It looks like vosi's wiki is offline
and it's safe and educational to explore the file system
Welcome!
TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Lost mail, where to look?
DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:31:55
HOST: sverige
For following mail which is sent out from your SDF account, use 'mail -v'
Note that you will, or may, see it connect first to the SDF server
===begin paste===
$ mail -v
[email protected]
Subject: test
goodbye
