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Glimpses of Democracy [1]

['Peter Baker']

Date: 2022-12-09

How big a threat do you see to American democracy?

I have faith in the underlying resilience of our country’s democracy. The antibodies to antidemocratic thinking and practice are kicking in. I think people are seeing the risks in a way perhaps they didn’t before. But we should not take the survival of our democracy for granted. I was a reporter for many years and have seen a lot, but I never would have dreamed a political figure, and his supporters, would have tried to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power.

We’ve seen protests in Iran and China before, but the governments survived. Should we expect the outcome to be different this time?

The honest answer is, I don’t know. I think these regimes are more brittle than we see from the outside. Dictators are subject to the same pressures to deliver as democratically elected leaders are. As you know from the Soviet Union, regimes can seem impervious to change — until they are not. I don’t expect to see Xi Jinping in power in five years. China isn’t suddenly going to turn into a democracy, but we shouldn’t underestimate the power of dissent.

President Biden has been relatively quiet about the China protests. Should he be speaking out more?

Everyone should be speaking out more, particularly democratic leaders. It’s not productive or realistic to cut all ties to authoritarian regimes, but we should use this engagement to press human rights concerns. If democracies don’t defend these values, who will?

You were a co-host of an event with the George W. Bush Institute highlighting human rights defenders. Of those you’ve met, who was one of the most impressive?

I think often of Vladimir Kara-Murza, a Russian opposition figure and journalist who was living in the United States but went back to Russia around the time of the Ukraine invasion despite two assassination attempts and knowing he would be thrown in jail. There are many remarkable people out there who are risking everything to bring freedom to their countries. That gives me hope.

Related: The upheaval in Peru’s government is a test of its democracy.

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[1] Url: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/09/briefing/dissent-democracy-freedom-house.html

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