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Talking to Totalitarian Neo-Confederate MAGAs [1]
['This Content Is Not Subject To Review Daily Kos Staff Prior To Publication.']
Date: 2025-04-19
I know some have refused to engage, they’ve thrown all MAGAs out of their life so they don’t have to feel that their are endorsing or tolerating Fascism.
You know it’s a brick wall. It’s a closed point where no piece of logic can enter, but I know it’s still something worthwhile to have these conversations. I may not convince the other side of anything, but getting out what I think, defending our position is worthwhile and needs to happen repeatedly. If we don’t speak up for ourselves, they are more than willing to paint a strawman picture of who we are and beat up that fantasy in effigy without any reservations.
So on Facebook I posted this:
MAGAs, there are reasons your Democratic friends refuse to talk to or deal with you. a) Innocent people - including legitimate legal immigrants - being grabbed off the street, jailed and deported to foreign Concentration Camps. And then they say "Homegrown" Americans are next. b) Destruction of Pediatric Cancer Research, HIV, Ebola, Diabetes and pollution protection - so that big corporations can save a dime. c) Incompetence of DOGE and HHS, cutting off and destroying vital programs that help keep people alive and healthy - and that won't improve the deficit. d) Fascist crackdown on Universities for teaching what they choose e) Fascist crackdowns on Law Firms for supporting their clients f) Destroying the economy with Ridiculous Racist Tariff plans. They wrote a 900-Page manifesto that told you what they were going to do and you pretended it wasn't true. All of it is true. You knowingly voted for this, and if you didn't know you are a Fool. Everyone told you. If you don't realize this and admit this - if you don't rise up and fight against it - no one has any reason to forgive or trust you again. Ever.
The response over the flip.
Johnny Angel I'm a staunch Independent. You're an idiot.
So my next response was:
Frank Vyan Walton Johnny Angel 1) That's convincing. 2) How was I talking to you exactly? 3) What part of what I said isn't accurate?
Next:
Johnny Angel
Frank Vyan Walton The pediatric cancer research (and others) is NOT being terminated or even being destroyed. I think you are more intelligent to know these are just democrat "talking points." Same with "they're coming after your Social Security and Medicaid!!!" No they're not. They're getting rid of (or TRYING TO GET RID OF) the waste and abuse in it, tho.
Right, ok, so here we go again.
Johnny Angel It's not Democrats saying this - it's people involved in Pediatric research. "In its announcement of the proposal, the NIH estimated that the change could save the federal government as much $4 billion annually. However, those savings come at a steep cost for the pediatric cancer research community. Many universities rely on NIH reimbursements to maintain the kind of high-tech facilities and highly trained staff that are necessary to conduct clinical trials and other forms of medical research. Pediatric cancer research, in particular, is often expensive due to the relative rarity of many childhood cancers, the smaller number of patients able to participate in trials, and the need for specialized equipment capable of accommodating the physiology of small children.
“The proposed NIH funding cuts pose a significant threat to the future of pediatric cancer research and could severely impact the progress of life-saving treatments,” Danielle Fragalla, the Chief Executive Officer of Pediatric Cancer Research Foundation, said. “With research institutions facing multi-billion-dollar losses, the ability to fund new and ongoing studies–including those focused on childhood cancer, survivorship, and equitable care–could be drastically reduced.”
The fact that the 15% cap is intended to go into effect immediately and will impact not just future grant awards but also currently existing ones has left many institutions feeling blindsided. Consequently, a coalition of 22 states filed a lawsuit charging that the policy violates federal law. Additional lawsuits were filed by a coalition of medical schools and hospitals and by the state of Massachusetts.
https://pcrf-kids.org/.../an-uncertain-future-new-nih.../ "Same with "they're coming after your Social Security and Medicaid!!!" No they're not. They're getting rid of (or TRYING TO GET RID OF) the waste and abuse in it, tho.? This is false, there is no "waste" in the number of open SS offices. If you've been to one, which I have, they already worse than the DMV. Closing offices, cutting phone service and destroying the website IT - is CUTTING access to benefits. It's not removing any waste or fraud, real beneficiaries are already been impacted and harmed. Social Security has already been cut, if you can't get access to it.
You are the one spouting "talking points" - look at what is actually happening and pay attention to the impacts.
At this point, this person started jumping into other conversations:
Johnny Angel Rocky Torres Are you a legal citizen, especially one without MS-13 ties and police reports for beating your wife? Odds are - you won't be deported like this loser was.
Bring him back tho...get it sorted out. Within a month he will just be deported again.
My response:
Frank Vyan Walton Johnny Angel Having a green card (which he had) being a member of MS-13 (which only one confidential source - who was a disgraced cop - claims he was in Jersey while he lived in Maryland) and having marital problems (which never led to charges, were not proven and she has since recanted) does not mean he's a criminal because he wasn't convicted of any of this and even if all this was true, which woud still require a hearing to prove, it's not enough to justify his deportation, let alone being imprisoned in a foreign concentration camp. Being an alleged member of a group is not a crime. You have to participate in some criminal activities by the group. Unconfirmed abuse allegations are merely allegations until confirmed. And although you didn't mention it, a speeding ticket is not a hanging or deportable offense. All of these are unproven allegations and excuses. Our entire system is designed to protect *everyone* from being railroaded by the powerful without having a chance to present a defense. That's on top of the fact he had a court order NOT to be deported to El Salvador because gangs there had threatened him and his family. They have *admitted* this was a "mistake" and here you are defending that mistake with more excuses? It shouldn't have happened. There's no defense for that. Failing this is part of a rapid slide into Totalitarianism. Despots from Putin to Orban, Pol Pot and Stalin have used excuses like this to commit atrocities against millions. Trump intends to do this to 20 Million people. And US Citizens. That's the sad truth, that's exactly what he promised us all. That was his - bigoted - platform. "Get them all out." He never considered using due process. His VP is on X now claiming that "we can't do due process for 20 million people." Really? Sorry, but that's the Constitution.
Yeah, no. We can't have it, not even once, period. We're not America anymore if someone can be sent to a foreign concentration camp for life - and likely death - on the basis of unproven, unvetted allegations. That's NAZI shit. The point isn't whether he's guilty of any of this, the point is that NONE OF IT WAS PROVEN and he was never given a chance to defend himself. That's why the Supreme Court found 9-0 that he deserved his due process. Everyone does. There are no exceptions. Unfortunately, this is not an aberration. It's not rare. Reports are that 75% (179) of the migrants illegally sent to CECOT in violation of a court order had no criminal record in the US at all. All of them deserve due process and a chance to prove their innocence. I remember how MAGAs would cry salty tears over the horrors of Carter Page's 3rd FISA Warrant having a mistake in it. Instead of "did" it said he "didn't" previously act as a CIA informant. [Never mind the fact that happened because Russian SRV Intel agents had previously tried to recruit him.) Oh, my, God!! His RIGHTS were so offended!! How things have changed so easily. Now the standard is "assume guilty" and don't bother trying to presume innocence? Talk about "Anti-American."
I don’t have to explain this stuff to other Democrats. They already know.
MAGA has lost the thread. They don’t understand what this country is, or what it was meant to be. They have a selective understanding of the 1st-10th Amendment, including freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom from religion enforced by the state, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, the freedom of probable cause and warrant requirements, the freedom of Grand Jury and Trial requirements, and the freedom from cruel and unusual punishment.
They think only they get these protections, not us — and not you.
Not immigrants, Not Liberals. Not the Elite.
Not the rest of America.
That’s their fundamental problem
[END]
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