(C) Daily Kos
This story was originally published by Daily Kos and is unaltered.
. . . . . . . . . .
Top Comments: Notebook #139: The dog in Ryan Holiday...and me [1]
['This Content Is Not Subject To Review Daily Kos Staff Prior To Publication.']
Date: 2025-01-31
I’m not surprised by this video of noted 21st century teacher of stoicism Ryan Holiday denouncing various aspects of the Trump administration but I am happy to see it.
x YouTube Video
FTR, I have now been reading about the school of ancient philosophy known as Stoicism on and off for almost 30 years now. I believe that the first book about stoic philosophy that I ever read was Seneca’s Letters of a Stoic. At the time, I was far more interested in reading ancient Roman history rather than philosophy but I did read Martha Nussbaum’s The Therapy of Desire soon after that initial reading of Seneca. This would be about the time in the early 2000’s shortly after I returned to school and majored and minored in all sorts of humanities, earning my major in classical civilization and an “almost-minor” (1 class short!) in.philosophy, Due, in part, to the fact that life was too damn busy then to learn Greek and Latin, I will not claim to have studied these subjects with a rigor that has ever satisfied me, really, but I know more than the average layman, I suppose, about the history of the various philosophical schools of ancient Greece and Rome.
So...I took note of the revival of Stoic teaching roughly 10-15 years ago. I knew enough, then, that I did not have to settle for any modern interpreter; I knew enough to seek out translations of the ancient texts of noted stoics like Marcus Aurelius or Seneca or Epictetus. I’ve been aware of Ryan Holiday and other teachers of the 21st century notions of Stoicism for some time now but I had no need for them.
After the 2024 presidential election, I began to look into the so-called “manosphere,” a loose set of podcasts, podcasters, and other assorted media that pedals the message “I am a man, hear me roar” to the extent that...well, this country is being run the way it is now. And the influence of a severe bastardization of “Stoicism” by so-called influencers and shady characters like Andrew Tate kept coming up.
How did we get to this ill-educated state of things? What can possibly be done about it?
More after I tell you who we are and what we do here in Top Comments.
Here at Top Comments we welcome longtime as well as brand new Daily Kos readers to join us at 10pm Eastern. We strive to nourish community by rounding up some of the site's best, funniest, most mojo'd & most informative commentary, and we depend on your help!! If you see a comment by another Kossack that deserves wider recognition, please send it either to topcomments at gmail or to the Top Comments group mailbox by 9:30pm Eastern. Please please please include a few words about why you sent it in as well as your user name (even if you think we know it already :-)), so we can credit you with the find! Savun Barnes of Trillmag has written a pretty good synopsis of the 21st century bastardization a sufficient synopsis. Stoicism as a school of philosophy was founded by Zeno of Citium around 300 BCE. It enjoyed popularity amongst Roman emperors such as Marcus Aurelius. His book “Meditations” has become a fan favorite within the Manosphere; it is commonly seen as the stoic bible. Stoicim’s (sic) teachings can best be summarized as the adherence to human virtue, which was comprised of the traits of justice, courage, wisdom, and moderation. Additionally, its primary belief is that one can only control their actions, not actions that happen to them. By adhering to the values of virtue and tempering how you respond to external forces in your life, you are able to be a truly virtuous person. [...] Broicism is a convoluted form of stoicism that more closely aligns with how stoicism is defined as an adjective. Most people pursue stoicism as a means to become non-expressive and closed off. Broicism, while preaching stoicism’s principle of self-control in response to external forces, more or less preaches the lack of emotion a man should have. It has convoluted stoicism’s teachings to justify or practice a form of emotional withdrawal. ...this has resulted in its teachings being misconstrued as avoiding emotions rather than processing them. One user quickly corrected the original poster, commenting, “That’s not stoicism. That’s being calm and composed. Stoicism is accepting your life and consequences and finding peace in yourself.” This misconception of stoicism results in the prioritizing of the value of the self while neglecting the processing of one’s emotions. Consequently, many view the key takeaways of stoicism as maintaining a stoic demeanor. Broicism is a bastardization of stoicism, where bits and pieces of stoicism have been picked to better fit the lifestyle preached by the Manosphere. I mean, I like Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations a lot but if that is considered to be the “stoic bible” then we’re probably had better be prepared to have a whole lot more rotten-ass kids in this world. Stoicism has apparently also never lost its ability to attract grifters and that would appear to include Mr. Holiday. Having said that, I do think that Holiday is one of the better interpreters of what a modern day stoicism looks like; hell, we could all use a “life hack” or two nowadays. And as someone who has kept personal journals on and off for over 40 years and who has even noticed the influence of the ancient teachings of Stoicism in various forms of therapy and even 12-Step programs, I noticed the positive effects of stoicism from the moment I began reading about the topic. I like Holiday’s The Daily Stoic readings and podcast but only as a beginning to further investigations. This particular video the first time is not the first time that Mr. Holiday has criticized the rhetoric and actions of a Trump administration
I will admit, though, that Mr. Holiday’s quip about RFK Jr.’s worm-addled brain may indicate that he has a bit more of the dog than I would otherwise think; the bark and bite of the dog, of course, being not far away from Stoicism’s origins at all.
And maybe nowadays, that bark and bite is even necessary.
TOP COMMENTS
Brillig's ObDisclaimer: The decision to publish each nomination lies with the evening's Diarist and/or Comment Formatter. My evenings at the helm, I try reeeeallllyy hard to publish everything without regard to content. I really do, even when I disagree personally with any given nomination. "TopCommentness" lies in the eyes of the nominator and of you, the reader - I leave the decision to you. I do not publish self-nominations (ie your own comments) and if I ruled the world, we'd all build community, supporting and uplifting instead of tearing our fellow Kossacks down. Please remember that comment inclusion in Top Comments does not constitute support or endorsement by diarist, formatter, Top Comments writers or DailyKos. Questions, complaints or comments? Contact brillig.
Highlighted by paulex:
This comment by CyberMindGrrl in Alex Samuels’ front page post on how Joe Rogan’s interview with Kamala Harris was sabotaged.
TOP MOJO
Top Mojo for yesterday, Thursday, January 30, 2024, first comments and tip jars excluded. Thank you mik for the mojo magic! For those of you interested in How Top Mojo Works, please see his diary on FAQing Top Mojo.
[END]
---
[1] Url:
https://dailykos.com/stories/2025/1/31/2300189/-Top-Comments-Notebook-139-The-dog-in-Ryan-Holiday-and-me?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=more_community&pm_medium=web
Published and (C) by Daily Kos
Content appears here under this condition or license: Site content may be used for any purpose without permission unless otherwise specified.
via Magical.Fish Gopher News Feeds:
gopher://magical.fish/1/feeds/news/dailykos/
