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# 3 A Public Battle of Argument Between Me and a Republican Regarding the Electoral College [1]

['This Content Is Not Subject To Review Daily Kos Staff Prior To Publication.']

Date: 2024-09-20

In the previous installment, I presented “The Electoral College: All Costs, Not Benefits— this week’s attempt to get the good conservatives I used to know to give control to the better angels of their nature in their politics.

This piece, appearing online, elicited a comment from a Republican who is not only a retired Navy colonel whose columns also appear in that newspaper, but is also a friend (with our agreeing not to discuss politics).

Here is the exchange I had with him, beginning with his opening comment:

*********************

Andy, i respect your opinion but must disagree.

My concern with eliminating the Electoral College is the impact this change would have on the citizens of the Shenandoah Valley. The Electoral College gives smaller states such as Virginia an equal say in our presidential election process. As we learned in 2016, 65 million votes are not difficult to capture if you simply ignore “flyover country” and campaign exclusively in New York, California and the nation’s largest urban centers. Because that’s where the votes are concentrated.

Without the Electoral College acting as a check, elections become a pure numbers game, ignoring that the U.S. was deliberately founded as a representative democracy operating under a “republican” (note the small “r”) form of government. This is clearly articulated in Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution, which states, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in the Union a republican form of Government...” The framers of the Constitution, wary of unchecked power, created the United States as a Republic — a representative democracy, and not a pure democracy.

Presidential elections must not hinge on regions and population density. When they do, California, New York, Chicago, LA, Philadelphia, et al can effectively disenfranchise the voters of all political parties in the Commonwealth and beyond. The votes counted inside a few hundred square miles of America could negate your vote, and mine. In short, one could argue that absent the Electoral College, the “fix” is well and truly in.

Imagine a presidential election in which entire regions of the country (including our little “flyover” Valley) would not hear Word One from the national candidates, nor would they hear our more moderate views. Without the Electoral College, Americans would see one candidate working the cities, and the other working the countryside. And never the twain ... well, you know.

The Electoral College system enforces Federalism — the division and sharing of powers between the state and national governments. We the People choose the men and women who represent us in state legislatures and in Congress. And through the Electoral College, the states choose the president and vice president.

Critics of the Electoral College say “land doesn’t vote.” That’s true enough. But the voters who live on America’s vast prairies, among the mountain ranges, deserts and forests, deserve to have their say — at least as much as the glittering urban sophisticates from whom the Electoral College defends the American Way.

The Electoral College has served us well and does so in today’s polarized political environment. Let’s tune out the latest political noise; stay the course and keep the system that ensures the voices and votes of the Shenandoah Valley will always be counted.

Best,

***********************************

To which I replied:

Sorry, Ros, but I can't see how your argument holds water. (I'll leave aside your characterization of Virginia as one of the "smaller" states, when in fact -- with its 8.6 million people -- Virginia is the 12th most populous state.)

You write: "the voters who live on America’s vast prairies, among the mountain ranges, deserts and forests, deserve to have their say — at least as much as the glittering urban sophisticates from whom the Electoral College defends the American Way."

Yes, of course the voters deserve to have their say as much as those "glittering urban sophisticates." (And I'll leave aside the way you are employing such rhetoric when referring to voters in the ranch towns of Texas and the barrios of California as much as to the hedge fund managers of New York or the movie stars in Hollywood.)

But that's just the point: every voter deserves the SAME amount of SAY as any other, if we believe in the values of Democracy. (One person, one vote-- as the Supreme Court said in Baker v. Carr in 1962.) Nothing in your argument gives any reason why the voters in the least populous states -- like Vermont and Wyoming, mentioned in my piece -- should have a GREATER SAY than voters in the more populous states.

We don't elect our governors (in Virginia or any other state) by giving each county a certain number of electors. We count the votes of all the citizens and whoever gets the most votes wins the election.

The idea of equal say, an outgrowth of "all men are created equal," is generally regarded among historians of such things as an outgrowth of the Christian idea that we are all equal in the sight of God.

The Electoral College does not treat all citizens as equal. And since we see humanity in terms of individual souls, it makes no sense -- and it is not justifiable -- to give some voters a measurably bigger voice in determining our collective future.

*************************************

Which elicited from him:

Andy, suspect we will agree to disagree and that is O.K.

Eliminating the Electoral College and electing the president by the popular vote would make our POTUS the Chief Executuve of the big states and cities of America, and the last vestiges of political autonomy guaranteed the individual states by the Constitution's electoral system of checks and blances would be swept away.

I do find it ironic that the plotical party who has most recently embraced the Constiution is on a constant crusade to change it ...

Have a good week. Best,

************************************

I pounced back onto the same spot:

Sorry, Ros, but I can't see how your argument holds water. (I'll leave aside your characterization of Virginia as one of the "smaller" states, when in fact -- with its 8.6 million people -- Virginia is the 12th most populous state.)

You write: "the voters who live on America’s vast prairies, among the mountain ranges, deserts and forests, deserve to have their say — at least as much as the glittering urban sophisticates from whom the Electoral College defends the American Way."

Yes, of course the voters deserve to have their say as much as those "glittering urban sophisticates." (And I'll leave aside the way you are employing such rhetoric when referring to voters in the ranch towns of Texas and the barrios of California as much as to the hedge fund managers of New York or the movie stars in Hollywood.)

But that's just the point: every voter deserves the SAME amount of SAY as any other, if we believe in the values of Democracy. (One person, one vote-- as the Supreme Court said in Baker v. Carr in 1962.) Nothing in your argument gives any reason why the voters in the least populous states -- like Vermont and Wyoming, mentioned in my piece -- should have a GREATER SAY than voters in the more populous states.

We don't elect our governors (in Virginia or any other state) by giving each county a certain number of electors. We count the votes of all the citizens and whoever gets the most votes wins the election.

The idea of equal say, an outgrowth of "all men are created equal," is generally regarded among historians of such things as an outgrowth of the Christian idea that we are all equal in the sight of God.

The Electoral College does not treat all citizens as equal. And since we see humanity in terms of individual souls, it makes no sense -- and it is not justifiable -- to give some voters a measurably bigger voice in determining our collective future.

And there the story ends.

[END]
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