Aucbvax.5833
fa.space
utcsrgv!utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!space
Mon Jan 18 13:39:54 1982
SPACE Digest V2 #81
>From OTA@S1-A Sat Jan 16 03:33:26 1982
SPACE Digest Volume 2 : Issue 81
Today's Topics:
Harry Stine and the Dean Drive
Thiotimoline
1982 NASA Schedule
Analog 'hoaxes'
Harry Stine
Harry Stein and Physics
Harry Stein and Physics (sri-unix.514)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri Jan 15 00:54:39 1982
To: Space@MIT-MC
From: Onyx.jeffc@Berkeley
Subject: Harry Stine and the Dean Drive
Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated.
Perhaps the most convincing argument I've ever seen that proves
that the Dean Drive is IMPOSSIBLE is the one offered by Isaac
Asimov in his autobiography, when he was discussing John
Campell's eccentricities (to put it nicely). While I don't
remember the exact wording, it went something like this (after
explaining how it was supposed to work): That's just fine.
Except that it violates the law of conservation of momentum, and
the law of conservation of angular momentum, and if it actually
worked I don't believe that the physicists would ever be able
to put back together again the laws of physics after the shambles
that would result.
Sigh. You'd never know that Stine was into such mysticism from
reading that excellent book, the Third Industrial Revolution.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jan 1982 13:26:01-EST
From: csin!cjh at CCA-UNIX
To: space-enthusiasts at mit-mc
Subject: Thiotimoline
was indeed invented by Isaac Asimov. As he says in IN MEMORY YET GREEN
(vol. 1 of autobiography) he had been selling SF since very early in
college and, a decade later, was worried that he wouldn't be able to
summon the turgid prose considered appropriate for a doctoral thesis in
chemistry after developing an excellent, readable style for the SF
magazines. (A lot of his prose seems bland or flat today but his early
work was certainly much better as writing than much of what was published
then.) He accordingly wrote this fake scientific paper, "The Endochronic
Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline", which Campbell published in
a tall tales section of ASF. Another paper described side effects of
thiotimoline, and "Thiotimoline to the Stars", written for the Campbell
memorial anthology, proposed its use in space travel. (If you can't
have FTL, get up to relativistic speeds and use t- to pull your ship
back so that internal and external times appear to match.)
Asimov also claims that after he had been grilled on general chemistry
and the contents of his thesis one of the professors asked, "And now,
\\Mr.// Asimov, what can you tell us about the properties of thiotimoline?"
at which point A had to be carried from the room.
Incidentally, ASF has had a number of strange things show up in it, since
Campbell was given to a wide range of enthusiasms. (This is far from
uncommon in geniuses; Edison, for instance, was rare in being able to make
practical objects out of most of his ideas, and the later interests of,
for instance, Newton, can be embarassing to the historian of science.)
But I don't think it is legitimate to speak of "hoaxes" in ASF, save in
the humorous reading of the word (e.g., thiotimoline, Kelvin Throop);
so far as a large number of people have been able to discover, it has
never succumbed to the sort of behavior common in, for instance, flying
saucer magazines.
------------------------------
Date: 15 January 1982 15:09-EST
From: Robert M. Gerber <GERBER AT MIT-AI>
Sender: ___115 at MIT-AI
Subject: 1982 NASA Schedule
To: SPACE at MIT-AI
cc: GERBER at MIT-AI
1982 NASA Schedule
[From Science News V121#1 2-Jan-82]
Month Mission Description
===== ============= ================================
Jan RCA-C' communications
Feb Westar IV communications
Feb Intelsat V-D communications
March Space Shuttle third orbital test flight
April INSAT-1A communications (India)
May Intelsat V-E communications
June NOAA-E weather, search-and-rescue
June Navy 21 navigation
July Landsat D communications
July Space Shuttle fourth orbital test flight
Aug Telesat G communications (Canada)
Sept Westar V communications
Oct RCA-E communications
?Oct IRAS IR astronomy (US/Netherlands/UK)
Nov Space Shuttle first operation flight
Nov San Marco D/L atmospheric research (US/Italy)
Dec Intelsat VA-A communications
------------------------------
Date: 16 January 1982 04:09-EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE MIT-MC AT>
Subject: Analog 'hoaxes'
To: TAW at S1-A
cc: REM at MIT-MC, SPACE at MIT-MC, SF-LOVERS at MIT-MC
(1) John W. Campbell personally saw the Dean Machine and
stated many times that he saw a (small) reduction in the
apparent weighht as measured by a bathroom scale when the
machine was turned on. The machine jumped around a lot,
however.
(2) G. Harry Stine actually touched it and states that
when turned on, it had a much stronger resistance to horizontal
motion (it was at that time turnd on its side with a push-rod
along the axis of 'thrust') when turned on than when turned off.
he took no measurements because he was not permittd to.
(3) Several aserospace firms including Boeing and MMM
attempted to purchase the dean Machine after the famous picture
in LIFE of Dave garroway thrusting a peice of paper under the
machine. Dean wanted about $1 million and a Nobel prize IN
ADVANCE. i know for a fact that one aerospace firm sent an
irrevocable letter of credit worth $500,000 if signed by all of
a three-person team (two engineers and one lawyer); their
instructions wer to buy the damn thing if there wwere ANY lift
or thrust whatever, on the groudns that a major company would
get it working (and i you build airplanes you can build
spaceships if you have a drive./..)
They were unable to examine the machine sufficiently to
be able to form an infomred conclusion.
(4) No one knows whata happened to the original Dean
Machine. The one described in the patent is NOT the machine
that we saw operate.
------------------------------
Date: 16 January 1982 04:12-EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE MIT-MC AT>
Subject: Harry Stine
To: DYER at NBS-10
cc: klh at MIT-AI, space at MIT-AI
G. Harry Stine is a curator of the aerospace museum, a
well-known author and cunsultant, and a private pilot of his own
airplane; and indeed a very sound engineer. He has written a
lot about model rockets and was very influential in design of
safety equipment in that hobby.
As to some people doing anything for a living, Harry
hasn't time to do silly thngs. He's far too busy writing damned
good books.
------------------------------
Date: 16 January 1982 04:20-EST
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE MIT-MC AT>
Subject: Harry Stein and Physics
To: KATZ at USC-ISIF
cc: SPACE at MIT-MC, klh at MIT-AI, sf-lovers at MIT-AI
I suspect Harry's physics is a little better than some people's
spelling.
G. Harry Stine worked for a number of years as assistant
to Dr. (Col.) William Davis. Now "Spacedrive" Davis was indeed
considered wrong; but he was pretty well respected even so. Not
a crackpot.
I thought Harry's article a bit intemperate, but I've
noticed a number of physicists who didn't seem very interested
in looking at new data either. A few years ago we had a big
meeting on Davis Mechanics and the Dean Drive, on the theory
that if there was ANY chance of experimental data in
contradiction to relativity it would be worth presewrving.
Dr. Robert Forward of Hughes Research wasn't too proud
to come to the meeting. Dr. Robert Bussard hasn't been too
proud to discuss the subjhect. True, the evidence is skimpy to
non-existent, and if you had to bet you'd have to put your money
on general relativity; but even Forward points out that in the
Einstein tensor, inertia and gravity aren't NECESSARILY equal.
Empirically they turn out to be so to about 11 decimal places,
but the Cal Tech people way there's still no really definitive
reason why they should; at least that's what I think Lee and
Lightman were saying. Certainly Forward says it.
It's one thing to be convinced of orthodox physical
theory and to defend it; it's quite another to become
intemperate in the defense. Harry is probably wrong, and he
loves to rattle people's cages anyway; leave it at that, and
don't think it necessary to destroy the man.
------------------------------
Date: Fri Jan 15 15:09:50 1982
To: Space at MIT-MC
From: ARPAVAX.Onyx.jmrubin at Berkeley
Subject: Harry Stein and Physics (sri-unix.514)
The Dean drive? That hoary fraud? Next you'll be telling me about
a new perpetual motion device. I suspect the science articles in Analog
have been influenced by the ghost of its most famous editor, John Campbell.
(spelling?) As a science-fiction pulp editor, he was great. However,
he entertained notions like Dianetics, psi, the Dean Drive, et. al.
(And Dianetics actually started in the pages of Amazing, the predecessor
to Analog.)
Joel Rubin
------------------------------
End of SPACE Digest
*******************
-----------------------------------------------------------------
gopher://quux.org/ conversion by John Goerzen <
[email protected]>
of
http://communication.ucsd.edu/A-News/
This Usenet Oldnews Archive
article may be copied and distributed freely, provided:
1. There is no money collected for the text(s) of the articles.
2. The following notice remains appended to each copy:
The Usenet Oldnews Archive: Compilation Copyright (C) 1981, 1996
Bruce Jones, Henry Spencer, David Wiseman.
