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A forum for Morrissey and The Smiths.
Volume 1, Issue #10
To post to Strangeways, please send mail to Kevin at
[email protected]. To join the mailing list,
please send mail to Michael at Michael.C.Massengale%
mac.dartmouth.edu.
**Notes: ICS (our mail/news/connection to the real world computer) has
been down for a few days...If you've tried to send mail, it's probably
bounced. This is probably why I haven't received mail recently from
anywhere. Please resend if your post does not show up in this issue.
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Date: Sat, 9 Mar 91 12:40:22 MET
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi%
[email protected]>
Subject: Strangeways
Wow! Some real discussion here!
>1. Why did they break up?
Morrisey has said in some interview that the breakup came as a complete
surprise to him. After an especially gruelling American tour they were
all a bit run down, and Marr and Morrisey had a talk about quitting,
but Morrisey thought that it was just talk. A couple of weeks later he
hears from some friends that Marr had quit. Without telling Morrisey.
Anyway, that's what Morrisey says. Marr hasn't, to my knowledge, said
anything about the breakup at all, except things like "it was getting
tired" and "the music had gotten stale and boring".
>2. Could there ever be a release of "lost" Smiths recordings?
>(and I'm not asking for you to be psychic, I just
>want to know if they recorded a lot more than they released)
I think everything has been released. And re-released. It's a shame,
but there weren't many live recordings, almost no videos. And they
released everything they recorded in the studio. Says Morrisey.
>3. Where did this Stephen Street guy come from?
As K said, he was the Smith's engineer and sometimes producer.
> And what happened to him, now that there's no mention of him on Kill Uncle?
Morrisey and Street had a falling out. Street didn't get the
production royalties or something for "Interesting Drug" so he slapped
an injunction on it halting its release. Morrisey was very pissed.
Street said that he was just looking after his own rights, and that
Morrisey was impossible to deal with whenever a slight difficulty
turned up. He just stays at home and refuses to take any calls. I can
see how that might make things a bit difficult, but apparently they
managed to get things kinda sorted out, because Street produced a
couple singles more after "Drug". But the relationship was bound to
fall apart. Street is now running an indie record company and
producing various stuff.
> And is there a particular reason why Morrissey doesn't continue to
> record with Rourke, Joyce, and Gannon?
I suspect that Morrisey will continue to work with Rourke and Joyce in
the future. There isn't any bad blood between them, I think. Gannon,
on the other hand, sued the Smiths some time back for royalties from
the last album or something. And he won. Morrisey was extremely
angry. In a way.
> 4. (kind of related to #1) Any chance of a reunion?
Morrisey has said that if Marr gives him a call he would be on the
first bus to see him. Marr says it isn't very likely.
> 5. What's the deal with Morrissey's sex life? Why is it an issue?
Dunno. Is it?
> Is he really celebate? I've heard not, and I've also heard
>that he's bisexual.
Are the two things exlusive? Yes, he is celibate, despite some recent
lapses. He says that he has had an handful of bad relationships and
that he isn't suited for it.
OK. About him being gay or bi: He has said countless times that he
doesn't want to have any label etched into his forehead. He says he's
above all silly distinctions of "hetero", "gay" or "bi". And if he
says so, he probably means it. But there's one thing to be had in
mind: If he is straight, he wouldn't go around saying "I'm a
women-loving straight hetero, me" like some assholes I can think of.
If he was gay he probably wouldn't go around saying "Oooo, there was
this boy last night..." So we don't know. Which is the way he wants to
keep it.
>The compilations both have new songs and songs from the
>previous album, and the subsequent releases both follow within a matter of
>months. Is this Morrissey's idea of a marketing scam? Nobody else does this,
>which is why I'm suspicious of the allegations that "the record company made
>him do it."
"Marketing scam"? Are you saying that Hatful of Hollow, The World
Won't Listen and Bona Drag are bad albums in any way? Hollow and World
both have _16_ (sixteen) songs! "Scam"? Making lots of songs from
singles cheaply available? "Scam"?!? I simply can't understand what
people are on about when talking about rip-off Smith albums.
[ Probably because most Smiths/Morrissey fans know that Morrissey likes
to release singles and an actual album is rare. Most Smiths/Morrissey
fans I know collect the singles. Now when a new album is announced,
people are expecting new material, but it only comes out as a
compilation of singles and people feel ripped-off. (I personally
don't mind because it's easier to carry around one compilation CD
rather than seven CD singles) =K= ]
> It seems that Marr left the Smiths (even though Morrissey
> went and recorded _Viva Hate_ in Winter 1987 while _Strangeways..._
> wasn't recorded until Spring 1987).
No. I'm quite sure you're wrong. Viva Hate was recorded after
Strangeways. I'm 98% sure.
[ Those dates are from the covers of the albums. The songs on _Strangeways_
may have been written before _Viva Hate_, but it seems that _Viva Hate_
was RECORDED before _Strangeways_. Then again, the covers could be
wrong. Any ideas? =K= ]
Oh... the new album, Kill Uncle. Which I love. But I realise that I
would love anything that Morrisey does. If he recorded twenty polka
tunes with burping on top, I would listen to it 20 times and then go
"Hm... this isn't so bad." I don't judge him, I just love him.
Blindly. Having said that, the new album is probably the worst thing
he has ever done. Some good songs, "Sing Your Life" and so on. The
rest is very boring. But I love it.
And Tony The Pony isn't on the domestic release... (Only kidding.
Domestic in Kaula Lumpur.) The European version doesn't have Tony The
Pony. It's on the Our Frank CD single and 12", along with the
Street-penned Journalists Who Lie.
What do you mean I've rambled on long enough!
Oh.
Feel free to hack away at anything I've said.
[email protected] | Dreams kept away
Lars Ingebrigtsen | She could never allow
-----
Date: 09 Mar 91 17:25:40
From: Nicole.E.Nelson%
[email protected]
Subject: Strangeways
first top ten album in no order
The Queen Is Dead-The Smiths
A Broken Frame-Depeache Mode
Seventeen Seconds-The Cure
Floating into the Night-Julee Cruise
Technique-New Order
Skylarking-XTC
Passion-Peter Gabriel
Reading,Writing,Arithmetic
The Sensual World-Kate Bush
Hatful of Hollow-The Smiths
My personal idea of why the Smiths broke up, Marr got a little fed up with
Morrissey using the smiths to give his opinions on things.
I think that the first time that street worked worked with the smiths was Meat
is Murder , he was the engineer. For what I know Morrissey and Street had a
little falling out after they did "Interesting Drug" .
As to Morrissey's sexual orientation just LISTEN TO THE LYRIC OF SOME
OF HIS SONGS- Example TONY THE PONY- come on, there should not be any
questions
As for Kill Uncle - i got Friday and I have listen to about five to six
times since then, include once in the Music library on headphones-which
everone should do once. My thoughts- well i find the music just a little bit
haunting at times, but that's all i have to say about it now, because I think
to form an opinon i will have to listen to the CD for about two- three months.
Nicole
Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being
charming. This is a fault.
-----
Date: 09 Mar 91 19:03:53
From: Nicole.E.Nelson%
[email protected]
Subject: Strangeways
1)How many people have read one or even both of Morrissey's books?
2) Is there a Video for the new single?
Does anyone have The Smithsa video released between sometime between the Queen
Is dead and Strangeways-I would
really like of copy of it.
3) on the topic of video's what does everyone think of Morrissey's (not
including The Smiths) video's
Nicole
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Date: Sat, 9 Mar 91 16:57:43 PST
From: CAR-RT SORT 09-Mar-1991 0729 <arthur%
[email protected]>
Subject: Kill Uncle, etc.
I agree with Brian Pane about KILL UNCLE. Perhaps if I gave it another listen
or two - but I doubt I'll be able to do that in rapid succession. Maybe sometime
next month. I paid $11.77 for it and THAT was too much for the 37.12 - or maybe
its a good thing that its so short.
Incidently, a friend of mine was going to order HATFUL of HOLLOW in the UK or
another friend here but the guy in the store doubted it would come soon with
this new Morrissey and a SMITHS GREATEST HITS COLLECTION coming out soon. Has
anyone heard of this?
Ed
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Subject: Strangeways
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 91 14:29:53 PST
From: Bernard Baker <bernie%
[email protected]>
I joined this mailing list last week, so I think it's about
time I add to the flow. If anyone gets a chance, check out
the article on Morrissey in the March 1991 issue of "Details".
I found it to be somewhat informative and interesting--there
are a few good Morrissey-type quotes in it.
I picked up "Kill Uncle" (w/ Tony the Pony) and must say that
it has potential--"Tony the Pony" is one of the best songs on
this disc, so get it while it's availalbe(if the information
is correct about it soon not being on the disc). I still need
more time to get used to the other tracks on the disc, before
I can give a strong opinion of it.
Anyhow, I'm enjoying the discussions on this mailing list,
so keep up the good work.
bernie
[email protected]
"still can't afford a sig"
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From: Simon Hughes <sph%
[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 14:00:00 GMT
Subject: Strangeways: issues arising from #8 & #9!
>What does everybody think of Kill Uncle?
(I sent this to the Manchester mailing list. Apologies if you've already read
it.)
Well, I got Kill Uncle last Monday (day of issue) and I'm not too impressed.
To give you some background, I thought Viva Hate, it's accompanying singles and
the Playboys/Drug singles were excellent. I started to lose the thread
around about Ouija Board time. Sure he's done some good (all this IMHO, of
course) songs since then but nothing remotely brilliant. This LP was going to
be make or break for me and I'm afraid I've broken! Basically I don't think
Nevin can write decent tunes - at least not an LP's worth. And while I used to
get a lot out of listening to Moz's lyrics, these days most of them seem to
pass me by. I reckon Sing Your Life (I think this is to be the new single,
released on 2 April) ranks with the best he's done since Interesting Drug and
I'd also give honourable mentions to Our Frank, King Leer (the best lyric on
the LP?) and Mute Witness. But most of the rest seems to be witless dirge.
Listen to Asian Rut and try telling me it ain't so!
Simon
P.S. The next single should come with a version of The Jam's `That's
Entertainment'. Now, that I do want to hear!
My UK CD release of Kill Uncle has no Tony the Pony on it. I haven't heard of
the mispressing over here.
>Why did they break up?
I think the Morrissey Marr relationship had run its course. Marr wanted to
expand his horizons and that was detrimental to The Smiths.
>Could there ever be a release of "lost" Smiths recordings?
Seems unlikely. Bits and bobs appeared on the last Smiths singles.
>Where did this Stephen Street guy come from?
Didn't he produce some Smiths stuff? When they split, Street got in touch with
Moz with some tunes.
>And what happened to him
There were rumours of a bust-up with Moz. Hard to know the truth where Moz is
concerned but its eminently believeable! He's got his own label (Foundation,
I think) which has released stuff by (for instance) Bradford (a band with the
Moz seal of approval).
>And is there a particular reason why Morrissey
>doesn't continue to record with Rourke, Joyce, and Gannon?
Well Gannon & Moz had a legal bust-up (I think over royalties) which Gannon won.
I suspect Rourke & Joyce are just busy with other things or weren't asked (for
no particular reason).
>Any chance of a reunion?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
>What's the deal with Morrissey's sex life? Why is it an issue? Is he really
>celebate? I've heard not, and I've also heard that he's bisexual.
Moz claims to be largely celibate. There have been, shall we say, incidents!
He writes in a very camp, often gender non-specific way and there are enough
people who are hung-up enough about homosexuality to make it an issue for Moz.
Who cares anyway (not me, I don't fancy him)!
Regarding the release patterns of Hatful/Meat and Bona/Kill, Bona was a sort of
replacement for an album which never quite made it. Only six tracks were
recorded at the relevant sessions and these were released as the November and
Piccadilly singles.
>even though Morrissey went and recorded _Viva Hate_ in Winter 1987 while
>_Strangeways..._ wasn't recorded until Spring 1987
You're not suggesting that the Viva Hate sessions happened before the
Strangeways ones are you? Cos. they didn't! However they did happen very soon
after the split.
>>...I reckon Sing Your Life (I think this is to >be the new single, released
>>on 2 April)...
>
>Can anybody confirm this one?
Yeah! Me!! I made the original post (see above). I read it in a british music rag.
Simon
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Hughes, Dept. of Computing, Imperial College. Email:
[email protected]
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From: Simon Hughes <sph%
[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 14:03:14 GMT
Subject: Strangeways: Discography
Originally posted this on 1 March. Am reposting it in case it's one of the
files you lost.
A few bits and bobs arising from the discography in Strangeways #5. Everything
here refers to UK Rough Trade releases unless otherwise stated.
There was a 12" of Shakespears Sister with extra track `Stretch Out and Wait'.
The 7" of Girlfriend in a Coma was backed with `Work is a Four Letter Word', not
I Keep Mine Hidden.
I believe that I Started Something and Stop Me if You've Heard this One Before
were corresponding US and UK releases. But I can't remember which was for which
country! Whichever was released in the UK had a cassette release which included
Pretty Girls Make Graves (radio session version?), Some Girls are Bigger than
Others (live, with extra verse) and What's the World (live cover of a James
song). Incidentally the videos for ISS and SMIYHTOB were exactly the same!
Simon
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Hughes, Dept. of Computing, Imperial College. Email:
[email protected]
-----
From: Simon Hughes <sph%
[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 13:23:42 GMT
Subject: Strangeways: Wonderful Woman, Smiths covers compilation, Peel sessions,
Kill Uncle
Cc:
The following didn't appear in Strangeways #8 or 9 so I'm reposting it to you.
(Original post made on 1/3/91).
[ Geez...what happened!?!? I know our mail system has been acting up, but
that's been just recently. How annoying. I hope no one else is having
the same problems. If you are, try sending mail to Michael...it could
be some stupid problem with our ICS server. =K= ]
Various points arising from Strangeways #4.
Wonderful Woman was the B-side of the (1st) UK 12" release of the This
Charming Man single. A lot of people accuse Moz of having a droning whining
voice and offhand I can't think of better evidence than this song! It is a
bit of a dirge!! Pleasant though --- "When she calls me, I do not walk I run"
Actually its the only Smiths song I know that has had two completely
different titles and lyrics. What I mean is that there was an early Smiths
song called `What Does She See in Him' which had completely different lyrics
to Wonderful Woman but the same music. I've only ever seen it in one place
which was a bootleg tape of one of their early gigs (the earliest I've
seen bootlegged).
Marc Howard Anderson <ma1m+%
[email protected]> writes
>Also, I heard a rumor a while back that there were plans to possibly
>release a collection of Smiths unreleased songs including a cover of New
>Order's "Blue Monday". Has anyone else heard similar rumors?
I think this is referring to the deliberate hoax I saw in a British music rag.
Could have been an Aprils fool joke but I don't remember.
Moz did record a session for John Peel's BBC radio program but he didn't like
it so it was never broadcast. Bet there's a bootleg of it somewhere! The
Smiths did at least three Peel sessions (from memory)
Handsome Devil, Reel Around the Fountain, Miserable Lie, What Difference Does
It Make
This Charming Man, Back to the Old House, This Night has Opened my Eyes, Still
Ill
Nowhere Fast, Rusholme Ruffians, Please Please Please Let Me Get What I Want,
?
They also did a few sessions for other radio programs. E.g. some of the
Hatfull of Hollow tracks are from a David Jensen session.
The UK release of Kill Uncle (all 33 mins of it!) should be out 4 March.
Simon
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Hughes, Dept. of Computing, Imperial College. Email:
[email protected]
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Date: Sun, 10 Mar 91 19:07:50 -0800
From: "Michael A. Ramirez" <mar%
[email protected]>
Subject: Strangeways
There was some talk of a Smiths cover of New Order's Blue Monday. I
would really like to hear this, so if anyone has a copy could you please
e-mail me.
I heard Moz will be touring the US during the summer. The reason
given for taking so long to get a tour going is because of problems
getting a band together. He has one now and they are now rehearsing. Info
courtesy of LIVE 105 FM San Francisco.
--Mike
[ Just a question for everyone...where did this "Moz" originate from?
I've never really heard that nickname before until I heard Nicole
use it. Just curious. =K= ]
-----
Date: 11-MAR-1991 20:57:51 GMT
From: NMF%ABERYSTWYTH.AC.UK%
[email protected]
Subject: Strangeways...
Hi,
Someone asked a few questions,
The one about the reunion has been answered, A possible smiths lp of
unreleased material was mentioned by 'rough trade' a few months ago
as the smiths still have one lp left on the 'rough trade' contract.
Stephen Street and Morrissey got a bit unfriendly because stephen didnt
get money for co writing/producing (i think) _interesting drug_ straight
away and the pair havent worked together since, if you listen to ouija board
the board spells s-t-e-v-e-n p-u-s-h o-f-f, can only mean him!!!
Nick
P.s. i spelt steven wrong at the start!!!!!
p.p.s. does anyone else think _he knows id like to see him_ is about
morrissey wanting to meet back up with johnny marr, because he
said if johnny ever phones him up and askes him to work with him
again he'd be on the first bus round his house..
p.p.p.s eek another , no the uk of _kill uncle_ does not contain _tony pony_
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Date: 12 Mar 91 17:45:19
From: Michael.C.Massengale%
[email protected]
Subject: Strangeways
Well, I've been giving Kill Uncle a thorough listen, and I'm pleased. As a
matter of fact, I eased into it more quickly than Viva Hate. Although I still
don't really care for Asian Rut, everything else is pretty good. A track that
I really like that I don't recall anyone else mentioning is Mute Witness.
On another subject, a guy I met told me that he's got a Japanese disc with the
Smiths live (not Rank). I'll get my hands on it after our break and give you
all a full report (I assume nobody else has run across this...).
Michael
