****************
*** 03-20-94 ***
****************
From: "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
cc:
Subject: Gods Player and Storyteller
--------
Come on, folks! Say something?!?!
*Last Dancer Spoilers Follow*
Ok. Since The God of Players and Storyteller have the same
symbol on their chest, does that mean they both belong to
"United Earth Intelligence" (what was written on the
outfit of the God of Players in Dvan's Story)
I'm guessing that both storyteller and camber
were originally with UEI, but that camber went
renegade, as the greatest player ever, that
is refered to somewhere in tLD...
Am I forgeting anything here?
****************
*** 03-20-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (dann cutter)
To:
[email protected]
cc:
Subject: the Ring??
--------
Any body have a copy they want to sell me??? Saw 'The Long Run' completely
transcribed on disk the other day... wonder how long before other books
start pooping up... :-)
_______________________________________________________________
Dann Cutter Stellar Enterprises� /
[email protected]
****************
*** 03-20-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
cc:
Subject: Re: Gods Player and Storyteller
--------
>*Last Dancer Spoilers Follow*
>Ok. Since The God of Players and Storyteller have the same
>symbol on their chest, does that mean they both belong to
>"United Earth Intelligence" (what was written on the
>outfit of the God of Players in Dvan's Story)
Yes. Both are Nightfaces, it seems. Although why Storyteller wears
white (when, I gather, black is the more traditional color) is beyond me.
But, then, neither Storyteller nor Camber are stricly human, are they?
>I'm guessing that both storyteller and camber
>were originally with UEI, but that camber went
>renegade, as the greatest player ever, that
>is refered to somewhere in tLD...
Huh? I don't remember that... Camber is the "renegade God of Players,"
but what kind of Players? Webdancers, like Trent? Or something else?
Sean.
****************
*** 03-20-94 ***
****************
From: windsor d williams <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (dk moran)
cc:
[email protected] (windsor d williams)
Subject: "Players"
--------
Sorry about the lack of response, but I (and probably a lot of
other people) have been off-line (Spring Break, you know).
Anyway, on this "players" business: I like the comment by (I think
it was, sorry if not)
[email protected], that Camber being "God of
Players" may not mean players in the sense of webdancers.
It might, but I think it's meant in a broader sense. When Trent
(don't have the exact quote handy) expresses his desire to be a
Player, I don't think he means it in the sense of just being a very
good webdancer. "Player" seems to imply something more - a person who
_means_ something, who has an effect beyond just the web. Consider
his donations to the food bank, his personal ethics on who he will
and will not steal from, his interest in issues like the Link; Trent
is interested in more than just being a "presence" in the web.
Although Trent is (obviously!) unique, I think this sort of thing
is what is meant be a "Player" - someone who affects bigger issues.
In this sense, one could be a player without being a webdancer at
all, and vice versa.
Sorry if this rambled - still recovering from too much sun.
Windsor
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: "david f. paulsen" <
[email protected]>
To: windsor d williams <
[email protected]>,
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
Return-Receipt-To: "David F. Paulsen" <
[email protected]>
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: WinPMail v1.0 (R1)
--------
>From: Windsor D Williams <
[email protected]>
>Subject: Getting the books
>To:
[email protected] (DK_Moran list)
>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 02:13:59 -0600 (CST)
[...]
> I managed to come up with some copies of Moran's
> books which I would be willing to part with, if anyone is interested. I
> would prefer to make a trade for a copy of _Emerald Eyes_ (which I
> haven't been able to find in well over a year of looking),
[...]
I, also, would love to read _Emerald Eyes_, but have been unable to
find a copy in +/- 3 years of searching. If somebody does have a copy,
how possible would it be to (shudder) transcribe it to ascii and upload it
to an FTPable locale?
I know other great books are available over the net in just this fashion,
and I've wondered how it was done: tag-teams of crazed typists,
massed arrays of bed-scanners with OCR software, or...?
This is probably a silly idea, and a violation of copyright law besides,
but they can't lock me up for thinking it aloud, eh? :-)
> Windsor
David
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (mike rosenberg)
To:
[email protected]
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
>If somebody does have a copy,
>how possible would it be to (shudder) transcribe it to ascii and upload it
>to an FTPable locale?
isn't this illegal?
mike
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: windsor d williams <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (dk_moran list)
Subject: Getting the books
--------
Greetings, felloe Moran fans! If anyone is still on this list, that
is...been pretty quiet lately. Anyway, to business. During my recent
Spring Break, I had the chance to scrounge through several used books
stores. I managed to come up with some copies of Moran's books which
I would be willing to part with, if anyone is interested. I would
prefer to make a trade for a copy of _Emerald Eyes_ (which I haven't
been able to find in well over a year of looking), if anyone has a
copy to spare. If not, I would be happy to send them to fellow Moran
enthusiasts for my cost + postage + a few bucks. I have:
1 copy of _The Long Run_, decent if somewhat battered condition
1 copy of _The Armegeddon Blues_, in good condition
(and the real find)
1 copy of _The Ring_, hardcover obviously, in good condition, with
dust jacket
I would definitely prefer to arrange a trade including a copy of
_Emerald Eyes_ if possible (why can't I find a copy of it? I've
managed to find at least two of all his other stuff!), but other
offers will be considered.
On another topic, are we still supposed to be on track for the next
book late this year? I haven't heard anything recently...does anyone
have fresh news?
Windsor
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: marcus eubanks <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
Nice though having the books in ascii form at an FTP site somewhere might
be, it most assuredly *is* a copyright violation. We'd be doing Mr. Moran
a disservice by pirateing his work.
Marcus Eubanks (n3etr) <
[email protected]>
Temple University School of Medicine 1996 Philadelphia, PA USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I believe in an afterbirth.
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: "david f. paulsen" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: WinPMail v1.0 (R1)
--------
>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 11:46:05 -0500 (EST)
>From: Marcus Eubanks <
[email protected]>
>
>Nice though having the books in ascii form at an FTP site somewhere
>might be, it most assuredly *is* a copyright violation. We'd be doing
>Mr. Moran a disservice by pirateing his work.
>
>Marcus Eubanks (n3etr)
><
[email protected]> Temple University School of
>Medicine 1996 Philadelphia, PA USA
This is probably futile, but I'd like to head this off as soon as possible:
I was *NOT* suggesting that anybody actually do this, ie upload ascii
versions of Moran's work to an FTP site. I was just thinking out loud
about how *other* projects like that were accomplished. I mean, the
feat itself would be pretty incredible.
I was not serious.
There were smiley faces.
I believe I even said it was illegal in my original note.
I'd dearly love to read _Emerald Eyes_, but not at the expense of the
man who wrote it. Is that clear enough?
David
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To: "david f. paulsen" <
[email protected]>
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
More constructively, sending mail to Bantam ought to solve this. I'm
almost willing to boycott Bantam books until they decide to reprint
Emerald Eyes and The Long Run.
Piaw
"I don't want to die, sometimes I wish I'd never been born at all!"
--- Bohemian Rhapsody, Queen.
"A Night at the Opera."
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
sender: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
reply-to: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To: "david f. paulsen" <
[email protected]>
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
Ever heard of Rockeffeller Plaza(sp?)? Every year, they close it off for a
day or so because if they don't, ownership will revert to the government.
I believe books not in print for a certain number of years should revert
to the (electronic) public domain. DKM himself has suggested some of his
future work may be in that format. BTW: how can DKM lose any money if you
can't find it? Let's all blame Bantam for the morons that they are for
not reprinting the series. As for the Ring..well let's not start that:).
Bruce Sterling's "The Hacker Crackdown" is now available legally, as far as
I know, on the net. I am not advocating doing anything illegal. I am simply
saying that this self-righteous attitudes have no place on a list about
cyperpunk books. I firmly believe that DKM stands for the same values as
the EFF.
Would Trent have objected?:) "On there was a thief, and this thief was God."
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
*sigh*
People who don't know and understand copyright law should not be discussing
it as if they did. Instead, they should go out to the nearest bookstore
or public library and get a good introductory book on the subject (there
are quite a few).
>Ever heard of Rockeffeller Plaza(sp?)? Every year, they close it off for a
>day or so because if they don't, ownership will revert to the government.
They do this because an old and accepted property (pun unintentional) of
real estate (land, that is) is that if it is open to the public, and the
public believes that it is public property, and the owners make no attempt
to assert their ownership, then, after a certain amount of time, it
reverts to becoming public property. The practice of homesteading is
one variant of this, I believe. (However, I do not understand real
property laws as well as I do intellectual property laws.)
As a result, once every certain period, the owners have to remind the
public of that. Here in the Bay Area, the owners of the Stanford Campus
have one day, every year or four, where they set up guards to stop people
coming in and let them know they are entering private property.
>I believe books not in print for a certain number of years should revert
>to the (electronic) public domain.
That's nice. It's also extremely naive. Not publishing a work is as
much a property of ownership as publishing it is. If the owner of a
copyright chooses to not publish it for the entire 75 years that a copyright
lasts, that is their right, and there are ofttimes good reasons to do so.
(CBS, for example, has stated it will never show the old Amos&Andy series,
because they consider it would be so offensive. If they did not own the
copyright on it, they could not prevent anyone [who had a copy somewhere,
and, yes, there are people who do] from showing it, selling it, or
whatever.)
Copyrights run out after 75 years. Also, in the case of publishers and
authors, most contracts are written with certain time limits -- that is,
unless it is renewed, after a certain amount of time (25 years?), the
rights to publish revert back to the author, who may choose to sell them
to someone else.
>BTW: how can DKM lose any money if you
>can't find it?
More naivety.
If a copyrighted work is allowed, at any point, to be copied without the
author's permission, and the author (or owner of the copyright, or
the owner's agent [i.e., lawyer]) does not do something to defend that
copyright, the copyright, for all intents and purposes, is lost. Meaning
that anyone can take all or part of the work and publish it as their
own. Or take the characters in it and incorporate them into their own
works. Etc.
And any of that would cause DKM to lose money, by losing the rights to
sell copies of the work at a later date, and also by allowing his world
and characters to be used by anyone who wishes to.
>Bruce Sterling's "The Hacker Crackdown" is now available legally, as far as
>I know, on the net. I am not advocating doing anything illegal. I am simply
>saying that this self-righteous attitudes have no place on a list about
>cyperpunk books. I firmly believe that DKM stands for the same values as
>the EFF.
Bruce Sterling fought long and hard to have that happen, and it only happened
after the book had been out for a quite a while, and sales had past their
peak. Bruce Sterling is also a Famous Author, and can get away with such
things, because his publishers know that any book that comes out with his
name on it will sell <X> copies.
Other authors have done the same (e.g., Brendan Kehoe, author of _Zen and
the Art of the Internet_). These are very much the exception, and will
continue to remain so.
The EFF does not advocate, by any means, violating copyrights. The EFF
doesn't even advocate authors giving away their livelihood and making
their books available on the net for free. Something most members of
the EFF do seem to agree will happens is selling books, stories, and
articles over the net, where you will pay for your copy in electronic
form, just as you do now for it in printed form.
>From your statement, I believe you do not understand what the EFF stands
for, its motives, or what it does. I would suggest you find out more about
them. DKM may very well stand "for the same values as the EFF"; I suspect
he does. However, I also suspect I am better informed about the EFF
than you are.
I would also suggest you ask DKM about his value and thoughts before you
start trying to act or advocate actions based on them.
Sean.
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: noah k scarr <
[email protected]>
To: "david f. paulsen" <
[email protected]>,
[email protected]
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
Excerpts from dkm: 31-Mar-94 Re: Getting the books by
[email protected]
>More constructively, sending mail to Bantam ought to solve this. I'm
>almost willing to boycott Bantam books until they decide to reprint
>Emerald Eyes and The Long Run.
What's their address? I _will_ boycott their books (now that I've
already bought _The_Last_Dancer_)...
And no laughing at my .project...
Noah K. Scarr
[email protected]
Mellon College of Science
Carnegie Mellon University
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
Threatening Bantam with boycotting them unless they republish some
books is not likely to work: you will come off as either a jerk,
an extremist (by definition, in the minority), or as a blathering fool,
none of which will get them to listen.
Instead, send mail to them and tell them that if they were to republish
the books in question you, at least, would be on a waiting list to
buy them. Then, find your local neighborhood bookstores, and start
calling them and asking for the book. If, like me, you are friendly
with the owner of a small store (the store I go to is a F/SF/Mystery
bookstore, small, but the owner carries a lot of weight because of
the specialty), see if you can get them to cooperate and put some
pressure on the publisher to re-issue the books.
Only as a last resort, after you've tried convincing the publisher
to republish, and they've told you that they have no intention of ever
doing so again, do you start trying to convince people to stop buying
from them. And even then, it will almost certainly not work.
Sean.
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
On Thu, 31 Mar 1994
[email protected] wrote lots of stuff:
> *sigh*
>
> People who don't know and understand copyright law should not be discussing
> it as if they did. Instead, they should go out to the nearest bookstore
> or public library and get a good introductory book on the subject (there
> are quite a few).
Excuse me for not being a lawyer.:).
> >I believe books not in print for a certain number of years should revert
> >to the (electronic) public domain.
>
> That's nice. It's also extremely naive. Not publishing a work is as
> much a property of ownership as publishing it is. If the owner of a
> copyright chooses to not publish it for the entire 75 years that a copyright
> lasts, that is their right, and there are ofttimes good reasons to do so.
> (CBS, for example, has stated it will never show the old Amos&Andy series,
> because they consider it would be so offensive. If they did not own the
> copyright on it, they could not prevent anyone [who had a copy somewhere,
> and, yes, there are people who do] from showing it, selling it, or
> whatever.)
>
> Copyrights run out after 75 years. Also, in the case of publishers and
> authors, most contracts are written with certain time limits -- that is,
> unless it is renewed, after a certain amount of time (25 years?), the
> rights to publish revert back to the author, who may choose to sell them
> to someone else.
>
> >BTW: how can DKM lose any money if you
> >can't find it?
>
> More naivety.
>
> If a copyrighted work is allowed, at any point, to be copied without the
> author's permission, and the author (or owner of the copyright, or
> the owner's agent [i.e., lawyer]) does not do something to defend that
> copyright, the copyright, for all intents and purposes, is lost. Meaning
> that anyone can take all or part of the work and publish it as their
> own. Or take the characters in it and incorporate them into their own
> works. Etc.
>
> And any of that would cause DKM to lose money, by losing the rights to
> sell copies of the work at a later date, and also by allowing his world
> and characters to be used by anyone who wishes to.
>
> >Bruce Sterling's "The Hacker Crackdown" is now available legally, as far as
> >I know, on the net. I am not advocating doing anything illegal. I am simply
> >saying that this self-righteous attitudes have no place on a list about
> >cyperpunk books. I firmly believe that DKM stands for the same values as
> >the EFF.
>
> Bruce Sterling fought long and hard to have that happen, and it only happened
> after the book had been out for a quite a while, and sales had past their
> peak. Bruce Sterling is also a Famous Author, and can get away with such
> things, because his publishers know that any book that comes out with his
> name on it will sell <X> copies.
>
> Other authors have done the same (e.g., Brendan Kehoe, author of _Zen and
> the Art of the Internet_). These are very much the exception, and will
> continue to remain so.
>
> The EFF does not advocate, by any means, violating copyrights. The EFF
> doesn't even advocate authors giving away their livelihood and making
> their books available on the net for free. Something most members of
> the EFF do seem to agree will happens is selling books, stories, and
> articles over the net, where you will pay for your copy in electronic
> form, just as you do now for it in printed form.
>
> >From your statement, I believe you do not understand what the EFF stands
> for, its motives, or what it does. I would suggest you find out more about
> them. DKM may very well stand "for the same values as the EFF"; I suspect
> he does. However, I also suspect I am better informed about the EFF
> than you are.
>
> I would also suggest you ask DKM about his value and thoughts before you
> start trying to act or advocate actions based on them.
>
> Sean.
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
Sorry about the last message, my Superdooper walled and freaked me out
while writing my reply.
On Thu, 31 Mar 1994
[email protected] wrote:
> *sigh*
>
> People who don't know and understand copyright law should not be discussing
> it as if they did. Instead, they should go out to the nearest bookstore
> or public library and get a good introductory book on the subject (there
> are quite a few).
Sue me for not being a lawyer.:)
> >I believe books not in print for a certain number of years should revert
> >to the (electronic) public domain.
>
> That's nice. It's also extremely naive. Not publishing a work is as
> much a property of ownership as publishing it is. If the owner of a
> copyright chooses to not publish it for the entire 75 years that a copyright
> lasts, that is their right, and there are ofttimes good reasons to do so.
> Copyrights run out after 75 years. Also, in the case of publishers and
> authors, most contracts are written with certain time limits -- that is,
> unless it is renewed, after a certain amount of time (25 years?), the
> rights to publish revert back to the author, who may choose to sell them
> to someone else.
Some people are touchy. I was simply reacting to the influx of 'this is
illegal' messages. Photocopying manuals without asking the author is
illegal and yet your school/teacher/you may have done in it in the past
or may still do it. People were reacting to this as if it were a capital
crime of the century. Taping a TV show is illegal under a very
strict light. The copyright laws are changing or should change, that is
all I am saying.
> >BTW: how can DKM lose any money if you
> >can't find it?
>
> More naivety.
>
> If a copyrighted work is allowed, at any point, to be copied without the
> author's permission, and the author (or owner of the copyright, or
> the owner's agent [i.e., lawyer]) does not do something to defend that
> copyright, the copyright, for all intents and purposes, is lost. Meaning
> that anyone can take all or part of the work and publish it as their
> own. Or take the characters in it and incorporate them into their own
> works. Etc.
>
> And any of that would cause DKM to lose money, by losing the rights to
> sell copies of the work at a later date, and also by allowing his world
> and characters to be used by anyone who wishes to.
All I am suggesting is that perhaps a physical copyright should be
replaced by an electronic copyright. The data could the nbe allowed into
public domain if the author wished it so. Naive idealism is not all that
that bad. In 10-20 years, I could have a scanner/OCR fast enough to make
your average paperback into 300k of data in a matter of minutes. How will
you protect the author's copyright then? If the software companies cannot
protect their products now, imagine how fast 300k of text could get
dispersed in the net.
> >Bruce Sterling's "The Hacker Crackdown" is now available legally, as far as
> >I know, on the net. I am not advocating doing anything illegal. I am simply
> >saying that this self-righteous attitudes have no place on a list about
> >cyperpunk books. I firmly believe that DKM stands for the same values as
> >the EFF.
>
> Bruce Sterling fought long and hard to have that happen, and it only happened
> after the book had been out for a quite a while, and sales had past their
> peak. Bruce Sterling is also a Famous Author, and can get away with such
> things, because his publishers know that any book that comes out with his
> name on it will sell <X> copies.
>
> Other authors have done the same (e.g., Brendan Kehoe, author of _Zen and
> the Art of the Internet_). These are very much the exception, and will
> continue to remain so.
>
> The EFF does not advocate, by any means, violating copyrights. The EFF
> doesn't even advocate authors giving away their livelihood and making
> their books available on the net for free. Something most members of
> the EFF do seem to agree will happens is selling books, stories, and
> articles over the net, where you will pay for your copy in electronic
> form, just as you do now for it in printed form.
>
> >From your statement, I believe you do not understand what the EFF stands
> for, its motives, or what it does. I would suggest you find out more about
> them. DKM may very well stand "for the same values as the EFF"; I suspect
> he does. However, I also suspect I am better informed about the EFF
> than you are.
>
> I would also suggest you ask DKM about his value and thoughts before you
> start trying to act or advocate actions based on them.
>
> Sean.
I based on my opion of DKM's thoughts and values on his book and the News
Release of August 13, 1992. Here is a quotation from that release:
"Inevitably all fiction will be available digitally: I'm
disinclined to fight the inevitable, even if I thought it a bad thing
which I don't."
How do you defend the copyright then of such digital information? a global
Police-state?:) A local newspaper had an article published with quotes
from a Usenet newsgroup. Some people on the net were shocked that their
copyright was not respected and the quotes were not attributed to them. My
reply was not intended to comment on how the copyright laws are right now
but rather on how they will/should be.
As for the EFF, if you had read Sterling's book, they defended that Knight
Lightning character against (gasp) claims of copyright infringement by
AT&T (that's what it came down to in the end). Things are simply not as
cut and dried and you make them to be. By the by, have you ever read
Daniel Derrida?
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
More idiocy, ignorance, and foolishness.
>Photocopying manuals without asking the author is
>illegal and yet your school/teacher/you may have done in it in the past
>or may still do it. People were reacting to this as if it were a capital
>crime of the century. Taping a TV show is illegal under a very
>strict light. The copyright laws are changing or should change, that is
>all I am saying.
Go read a good introduction to copyright law before you claim to understand
it. In it, you will find out about this concept called "fair use," which
allows educational institutions to get away with a lot. Also, you will
also find that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that taping a TV show was
legal. But not that you should be bothered with facts.
>The data could the nbe allowed into
>public domain if the author wished it so.
It already can. The author does not wish it so. More importantly, the
author has signed away his rights (presumably, again, for a limited
period). But, again, why should facts bother you?
>I based on my opion of DKM's thoughts and values on his book and the News
>Release of August 13, 1992. Here is a quotation from that release:
> "Inevitably all fiction will be available digitally: I'm
> disinclined to fight the inevitable, even if I thought it a bad thing
> which I don't."
>How do you defend the copyright then of such digital information?
Easy enough. It's been done before, and the methods are improving. I have
no desire to lecture about cryptography and digital signatures, and the
other viable ways to limit distribution of electronic data, with someone
who can't even be bothered to learn anything.
>As for the EFF, if you had read Sterling's book, they defended that Knight
>Lightning character against (gasp) claims of copyright infringement by
>AT&T (that's what it came down to in the end). Things are simply not as
>cut and dried and you make them to be.
Go check again, idiot.
They defended it because the information was available to anyone who wanted
it, therefore, he could not have violated a copyright the way AT&T said
he did.
Now go away; I do not want to heare from you again until you learn some
truth about what you're trying to talk about.
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: more forged mail
--------
>From nowhwere!nobody Thu Mar 31 15:22:35 1994
Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by Kithrup.kithrup.com id aa16037;
31 Mar 94 15:22 PST
Received: from Postmaster by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
Thu, 31 Mar 94 18:19:16 EST
Get a life, you son of a bitch.
If you're going to flame somebody that nastily, why don't you just do it to them,
so the rest of the world doesn't have to hear about it???
Motherfucker.
Go suck some sick sheep's asshole.
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: forged mail
--------
Any and all forged mail will be forwarded back to the list. If you are
so sure of your words, stop hiding.
>From nowhwere!nobody Thu Mar 31 15:18:05 1994
Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by Kithrup.kithrup.com id aa15959;
31 Mar 94 15:18 PST
Received: from Postmaster by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
Thu, 31 Mar 94 18:17:34 EST
You are a putx.
You shouldn't flame people so hard.
Web angels will come and tear you apart.
Asshole!
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: more forged mail
--------
>From nowhwere!nobody Thu Mar 31 15:24:28 1994
Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by Kithrup.kithrup.com id aa16065;
31 Mar 94 15:24 PST
Received: from Postmaster by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
Thu, 31 Mar 94 18:24:05 EST
You may be smart, but you lack a sense of humor.
Killing is wrong, but youshouldn't have been born.
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: still more
--------
>From nowhwere!nobody Thu Mar 31 15:30:25 1994
Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by Kithrup.kithrup.com id aa16164;
31 Mar 94 15:30 PST
Received: from Postmaster by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
Thu, 31 Mar 94 18:30:05 EST
You are the fool.
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: They have sown the wind and they shall reap the whirlwind.
--------
I guess some people really have no manners.
>From
[email protected] Thu Mar 31 18:38:16 1994
Message-Id: <
[email protected]>
Date: Thu Mar 31 15:43:09 PST 1994
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Failed mail
Sender:
[email protected]
Status: RO
Your message could not be delivered due to:
Permission denied
Your message follows
Received: from condor.CC.UMontreal.CA by Kithrup.kithrup.com id aa16449;
31 Mar 94 15:43 PST
Received: from eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA by condor.CC.UMontreal.CA with SMTP id AA00153
(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for
[email protected]); Thu, 31 Mar 1994 18:37:59 -0500
Received: from tornade.ERE.UMontreal.CA by eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA (920330.SGI/5.17)
id AA02055; Thu, 31 Mar 94 18:37:58 -0500
Received: by tornade.ERE.UMontreal.CA (920330.SGI/5.17)
id AA21772; Thu, 31 Mar 94 18:37:57 -0500
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 18:16:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "J.C. DuVal" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Getting the books
To:
[email protected]
Cc:
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <
[email protected]>
Message-Id: <
[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 31 Mar 1994
[email protected] wrote:
> More idiocy, ignorance, and foolishness.
>
> >Photocopying manuals without asking the author is
> >illegal and yet your school/teacher/you may have done in it in the past
> >or may still do it. People were reacting to this as if it were a capital
> >crime of the century. Taping a TV show is illegal under a very
> >strict light. The copyright laws are changing or should change, that is
> >all I am saying.
>
> Go read a good introduction to copyright law before you claim to understand
> it. In it, you will find out about this concept called "fair use," which
> allows educational institutions to get away with a lot. Also, you will
> also find that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that taping a TV show was
> legal. But not that you should be bothered with facts.
What an ethnocentric viewpoint. Robert Silverberg got really pissed some
time ago because some east european publishers were publishing
translations of his work without his consent. Perhaps they should have
consulted you on your american conception of a copyright. I'm a Canadian.
Can I tape a TV show?
> >I based on my opion of DKM's thoughts and values on his book and the News
> >Release of August 13, 1992. Here is a quotation from that release:
> > "Inevitably all fiction will be available digitally: I'm
> > disinclined to fight the inevitable, even if I thought it a bad thing
> > which I don't."
> >How do you defend the copyright then of such digital information?
>
> Easy enough. It's been done before, and the methods are improving. I have
> no desire to lecture about cryptography and digital signatures, and the
> other viable ways to limit distribution of electronic data, with someone
> who can't even be bothered to learn anything.
Now who is naive? For every encryption/protection ever made, there has
always been some hacker/pirate to crack it. Limit the distribution of
electronic data? How? I can send you a PGP-encrypted book but once
decrypted, you can give it to whoever wants it. I guess we have a budding
netcop here.
> >As for the EFF, if you had read Sterling's book, they defended that Knight
> >Lightning character against (gasp) claims of copyright infringement by
> >AT&T (that's what it came down to in the end). Things are simply not as
> >cut and dried and you make them to be.
>
> Go check again, idiot.
>
> They defended it because the information was available to anyone who wanted
> it, therefore, he could not have violated a copyright the way AT&T said
> he did.
Stooping to name-calling eh? What Knight Lightning did was a 21$, or some
other small amount, copyright violation. It was available to anyone who
wanted it for a price, however smaller than the one AT&T claimed it to be
worth. A NY Times article is worth what 2 cents? Can I reprint it in my
local newspaer without paying. KL did not have AT&T's authorisation to
reprint the material and it was therefore a copyright violation.
> Now go away; I do not want to heare from you again until you learn some
> truth about what you're trying to talk about.
I prefer manners to truth. I fear anyone who proclaims himself to be
holding the truth within his precious breast. I have kept this discussion
polite and you have not.
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
On Thu, 31 Mar 1994
[email protected] wrote:
> More idiocy, ignorance, and foolishness.
>
> >Photocopying manuals without asking the author is
> >illegal and yet your school/teacher/you may have done in it in the past
> >or may still do it. People were reacting to this as if it were a capital
> >crime of the century. Taping a TV show is illegal under a very
> >strict light. The copyright laws are changing or should change, that is
> >all I am saying.
>
> Go read a good introduction to copyright law before you claim to understand
> it. In it, you will find out about this concept called "fair use," which
> allows educational institutions to get away with a lot. Also, you will
> also find that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that taping a TV show was
> legal. But not that you should be bothered with facts.
What an ethnocentric viewpoint. Robert Silverberg got really pissed some
time ago because some east european publishers were publishing
translations of his work without his consent. Perhaps they should have
consulted you on your american conception of a copyright. I'm a Canadian.
Can I tape a TV show?
> >I based on my opion of DKM's thoughts and values on his book and the News
> >Release of August 13, 1992. Here is a quotation from that release:
> > "Inevitably all fiction will be available digitally: I'm
> > disinclined to fight the inevitable, even if I thought it a bad thing
> > which I don't."
> >How do you defend the copyright then of such digital information?
>
> Easy enough. It's been done before, and the methods are improving. I have
> no desire to lecture about cryptography and digital signatures, and the
> other viable ways to limit distribution of electronic data, with someone
> who can't even be bothered to learn anything.
Now who is naive? For every encryption/protection ever made, there has
always been some hacker/pirate to crack it. Limit the distribution of
electronic data? How? I can send you a PGP-encrypted book but once
decrypted, you can give it to whoever wants it. I guess we have a budding
netcop here.
> >As for the EFF, if you had read Sterling's book, they defended that Knight
> >Lightning character against (gasp) claims of copyright infringement by
> >AT&T (that's what it came down to in the end). Things are simply not as
> >cut and dried and you make them to be.
>
> Go check again, idiot.
>
> They defended it because the information was available to anyone who wanted
> it, therefore, he could not have violated a copyright the way AT&T said
> he did.
Stooping to name-calling eh? What Knight Lightning did was a 21$, or some
other small amount, copyright violation. It was available to anyone who
wanted it for a price, however smaller than the one AT&T claimed it to be
worth. A NY Times article is worth what 2 cents? Can I reprint it in my
local newspaer without paying. KL did not have AT&T's authorisation to
reprint the material and it was therefore a copyright violation.
> Now go away; I do not want to heare from you again until you learn some
> truth about what you're trying to talk about.
I prefer manners to truth. I fear anyone who proclaims himself to be
holding the truth within his precious breast. I have kept this discussion
polite and you have not.
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: "ian sutherland" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Copyrights in the Continuuing Time?
--------
Might I suggest that those of you who want to discuss
copyright law do so by e-mail or in some more appropriate
forum? I, for one, am on this mailing list to participate
(even if only passively :-) in discussions about Moran's
work, not about copyright law. Please take it elsewhere.
Please don't bother to respond that Moran's work is
"cyberpunk" and so discussions of putting books on the
net is somehow appropriate. That's way too thin.
--
Ian Sutherland Key Software, Inc.
[email protected] (708)864-1596
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
I'm actually a fan of boycotts, primarily because I've seen them work
(on some local restaurants in this area, for example). It's not
necessarily the economic disadvantage, but it's a statement of grave
displeasure at a publisher's behavior. In this case, I think Bantam's
doing DKM a disservice by:
- not promoting his books
- not keeping them in print
I've loaned my copy of "The Long Run" to friends and family, and the
response has uniformly been "this is incredibly good stuff --- why
haven't I heard of it?" and "where can I get more?" I've hunted
through countless bookstores in both Seattle and the San Francisco Bay
Area, to no avail in an attempt to get "Emerald Eyes" (I've finally
managed to find a copy through the net, however). I've forked over a
lot of money to get a copy of "Armageddon Blues." All of this money
could have gone directly to Bantam and DKM.
Nearly every specialist SF bookstore I've been to knows of a DKM
shortage, and every time I've asked to be put on a "want list" in case
a used copy comes in, I'm behind at least one other person who's been
to the store and asked for it.
Certainly, a letter to Bantam (I'll get the address as soon as my
friend returns my copy of "The Last Dancer" and "The Long Run" to me)
would be the first order of business --- I'd like to tell their
marketing director of the amount of pent-up demand that's out there
for DKM.
Piaw
I'm sick of being trodden on! The Elder Gods say they can make me a man!
All it costs is my soul! I'll do it, cuz NOW I'M MAD!!!
- Necronomicomics #1, Jack Herman & Jeff Dee
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: _The Man-Spacething War_
--------
In the articles dkm posted to the net, he said that the book he
was working on then was _Lord November: The Man-Spacething War_;
I've been assuming that it would be published before the next
two Trent books.
However, the "About the Author" section in Dancer implies that
the Trent duology will come out first (in the fall of '94).
Am I the only one who thought that?
Oh, yeah, and the address for Bantam/Spectra is:
Bantam Books
1540 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
(that might be then addressed to Spectra c/o Bantam Books, but I'm
not sure how that all works.)
Sean.
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From: "simon b. cardinale" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: ...
--------
Of course DKM gets no money when we buy his books used, either.
The money goes to the publisher only when the bookstore buys his books
from the publisher (there might be another middle-man distributor in
there, I don't know.)
Anyone in the SF Bay Area should try The Other Change of Hobbit. I got a
copy of Emerald Eyes there after a wait of less than a week from the time
I put my name on their "whish list." Of course they charged me more than
the cover price... Stung even more because I once bought a new copy of
Emerald Eyes at the original A Change of Hobbit (in LA) for a DISCOUNT off
the cover price... <sigh>
By the way, for those of you who asked me to get you books at Dark
Carnival (also in Berkeley) they're out of DKM. I got the last two new copies
of The Ring, and someone else got the last two new, signed, permabound
Amrmageddon Blues. (I got one, then they brought more out of storage a week
later.) They also had 5 (!) copies of Long Run, but I got two and someone
else grabbed the other three...
Sorry...
-Simon
PS Sorry I didn't write several of you back sooner... I can't get to Dark
Carnival so easily...
****************
*** 04-01-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] ("rebecca leann smit crowley")
To: continuing-time%
[email protected]
Subject: forged email posted to list
--------
While I'm not objecting in principle to posting forged email to
the list, I could wish that the email itself were more amusing
to read.
Presumably, the source of this email is on the list, so hopefully
this request will reach their eyes, and inspire them to,
at least, more imaginative depths, if not actual high-quality
flames.
Rebecca
****************
*** 04-02-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To: "simon b. cardinale" <
[email protected]>
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: ...
--------
>Anyone in the SF Bay Area should try The Other Change of Hobbit. I got a
>copy of Emerald Eyes there after a wait of less than a week from the time
>I put my name on their "whish list."
My name's there on their whish list. But there's at least one more
guy ahead of me. Get the idea?
>I got the last two new copies
>of The Ring, and someone else got the last two new, signed, permabound
>Amrmageddon Blues.
All copies of "The Ring" are now gone at Dark Carnival. I bought 1,
someone else on the net bought another. I was the person who bought
the last two new, signed, permabound copies of "Armageddon Blues."
(Yep, I know enough about bookstores that when I was down in
California, I made it a point to visit Berkeley!)
> (I got one, then they brought more out of storage a week
>later.) They also had 5 (!) copies of Long Run, but I got two and someone
>else grabbed the other three...
This is a ridiculous situation. If I were DKM, I'd be so pissed I'd
switch publishers at once. Time to write Bantam a nasty note.
Piaw
To know the world one must construct it.
- Cesare Pavese
****************
*** 04-02-94 ***
****************
From: solomon foster <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Foolishness
--------
My apologies for sending this to everyone on the list. I'm sure most of
you understand the basic rules of courtesy and politeness on the net.
But obviously a few of those on the mailing list don't understand them,
and I'd like to make sure everyone understands what the rules are.
This is a mailing list for talking about the works of DKM.
It is not for having stupid flame-wars about copyright law.
It is not for making sure everyone can read the immature, forged,
vulgar, lame flames you have recieved.
It is not the place for posting long pieces of mail which bounced when
you tried to send it to someone's account; especially when that mail was
already sent to the entire group. (And, of course, didn't really belong
on the group at all.)
Mailing lists depend upon a high signal-to-noise ratio for their
survival. Thanks to this recent bout of stupidity, there has been a
drastic increase in traffic over the few days, three quarters of which
had absolutely no place on this group. Two people unsubscribed at the
height of it; a third person (not involved in the flamewar) has asked
that a person be removed from the list.
The nature of the list makes this impractical; I easily take names off
the list, but they can still send mail to list. I don't have the time
to make this a moderated group, or the resources to establish some sort
of list server. Thus I'm just going to ask that everyone behave.
Please, stick to the subject of the group, and be polite --- no
vulgarity, no flamewars, no posting of private mail without permission.
-Sol
****************
*** 04-03-94 ***
****************
From: greg wheatley <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: _The Man-Spacething War_
--------
While DKM did say that the next book to be released would be Man Spacething
War, it may well be that Bantam Spectra have persuaded him to release the books
about Trent first, on the reasoning that Trent is the most popular character
in the series so far and it would make sense economically to release books
about him in order to appease current readers and also to gain new ones. These
will then go on to buy the other 30 or so books in the Continuing Time. It might
also be that DKM needs a bit of money after his divorce and so wants to write
the really popular books first. Who knows?
Regards,
Greg
P.s.: I did hear a rumour that DKM won't be publishing anything for about two
years after the finalisation of his divorce settlement on the grounds that
anything published within two years will be adjudged to be partially written
while he was still married, but that's just a rumour
--
"I don't need to sell my soul...
He's already in me."
-I Wanna Be Adored, The Stone Roses
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
****************
*** 04-04-94 ***
****************
From: solomon foster <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: _The Man-Spacething War_
--------
Greg writes:
>While DKM did say that the next book to be released would be Man
>Spacething War, it may well be that Bantam Spectra have persuaded him to
>release the books about Trent first, on the reasoning that Trent is the
>most popular character in the series so far and it would make sense
>economically to release books about him in order to appease current
>readers and also to gain new ones. These will then go on to buy the
>other 30 or so books in the Continuing Time. It might also be that DKM
>needs a bit of money after his divorce and so wants to write the really
>popular books first. Who knows?
Well, a while back I was chatting with someone from the Amber mailing
list who claimed to have read thirty pages or so of the Man-Spacething
War (as well as all of the Last Dancer, well before it was published).
He gave me no reason to suspect he was lying, and certainly seemed to be
quite a fan, so I took him at his word.
Also understand that, from what I have heard, DKM is loaded, so money
probably isn't an issue for him.
Also remember that this information comes from Bantam Spectra, which is
completely brain-dead. For example, the About the Author in Last Dancer
lists Armageddon Blues as a Continuing Time book.
Last but not least, Last Dancer was done a long time ago. There has
definitely been time for him to write two books by this fall.
So I'm hoping that sometime this summer we get Man-Spacething, and then
this fall we get Players, Book One.
-Sol
>P.s.: I did hear a rumour that DKM won't be publishing anything for
>about two years after the finalisation of his divorce settlement on the
>grounds that anything published within two years will be adjudged to be
>partially written while he was still married, but that's just a rumour
Where's it from? Seems unlikely --- I mean, even if I'm wrong and he is
hard up for money, he'll have more short term if he publishes than if he
sits on stuff he's already written. Not to mention that coming out with
a new book every three years while letting the old ones go out of print
is not the way to build up a loyal base of fans.
****************
*** 04-04-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: _The Man-Spacething War_
--------
>Also understand that, from what I have heard, DKM is loaded, so money
>probably isn't an issue for him.
I don't think so. His main profession is a contractor, however, so if
he's any good, he can easily work six months a year.
>Also remember that this information comes from Bantam Spectra, which is
>completely brain-dead. For example, the About the Author in Last Dancer
>lists Armageddon Blues as a Continuing Time book.
Well, it *is* shown on the time wheel in the back of the book. So I'll
give them a little bit of leeway there; they just got a bit confused.
>Last but not least, Last Dancer was done a long time ago. There has
>definitely been time for him to write two books by this fall.
Again, according to the postings he made, Bantam was waiting to
get the first draft of the next book (which, again, I had assumed
was Lord November) before they published tLD, because of how much
delay there had been between tLR and tLD. Which implies to me that
tLD was *not* done a long time ago; rather, only a couple of years
ago. (A "long time ago" would have been by late '90.) (In fact,
tLD ends with "1989-1992," so I believe that's how long it took to
be written.)
>So I'm hoping that sometime this summer we get Man-Spacething, and then
>this fall we get Players, Book One.
Yeah, but I haven't seen it in any "Future Books" listing. Which doesn't
mean much, because I didn't see anything about tLD and I was looking.
(First proof I had that it was coming was when the proprieter of the
bookstore I frequent handed me a readers' copy of _The Last Dancer_ and
let me at it. I've asked her to do the same with any other DKM book she
gets an advanced copy of.)
Sean.
****************
*** 04-04-94 ***
****************
From: andrew mccoll <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
cc:
[email protected],
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
On Thu, 31 Mar 1994
[email protected] wrote:
> I'm actually a fan of boycotts, primarily because I've seen them work
> (on some local restaurants in this area, for example). It's not
> necessarily the economic disadvantage, but it's a statement of grave
> displeasure at a publisher's behavior. In this case, I think Bantam's
> doing DKM a disservice by:
> - not promoting his books
> - not keeping them in print
Hi Sorry for coming in on this topic late. But I was wondering whether
anyone has considered sending a copy of this discussion to Bantam. (Minus
incriminating headers). Perhaps if they understood that they risk losing
all future profits from Emerald Eyes as a result of it being uploaded to
the net they might get their shit together and organise a reprint. Of
course they may just threaten to sue anyone who does it. But then thats
what anonymous mailers are for.
Skippy
[email protected]
University of Western Australia "That which does not kill us
Perth, Western Australia Must have missed."
****************
*** 04-04-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
>But I was wondering whether
>anyone has considered sending a copy of this discussion to Bantam.
I don't know if that would do any good. Or if it might be acceptable to
send a listing of the mailing list (using names, not email addresses,
of course) saying that all these people are extremely interested in DKM's
books, blah blah blah.
Or maybe just a note saying "The following people, from an electronic
mailing list devoted to discussing Daniel K. Moran's Continuing Time series,
are so willing to get copies of _Emerald Eyes_ and _The Long Run_ that they
have scoured the world, and paid for copies to be shipped overseas," and
then have a list of everyone who says it's okay to do so.
Sean.
****************
*** 04-05-94 ***
****************
From: "ian sutherland" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Threatening Bantam
--------
Why is it that people always want to resort to threats
first? Before threatening to violate copyrights and
institute boycotts, why not try to put together a letter
from people who'd like to see the books reprinted and
send it to Bantam?
--
Ian Sutherland Key Software, Inc.
[email protected] (708)864-1596
****************
*** 04-05-94 ***
****************
From: andrew mccoll <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
cc:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting the books
--------
> I don't know if that would do any good. Or if it might be acceptable to
> send a listing of the mailing list (using names, not email addresses,
> of course) saying that all these people are extremely interested in DKM's
> books, blah blah blah.
It couldnt hurt.
[email protected]
University of Western Australia "That which does not kill us
Perth, Western Australia Must have missed."
****************
*** 04-05-94 ***
****************
From: mike long <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Threatening Bantam
Reply-To: Mike Long <
[email protected]>
Organization: Analog Devices Inc, Norwood MA, USA
X-Attribution: MWL
--------
>Date: Mon, 04 Apr 1994 08:24:36 CDT
>From: "Ian Sutherland" <
[email protected]>
>
>Why is it that people always want to resort to threats
>first? Before threatening to violate copyrights and
>institute boycotts, why not try to put together a letter
>from people who'd like to see the books reprinted and
>send it to Bantam?
Another possibility that I haven't seen mentioned is ordering the book
directly from the publisher. They may still have a few copies tucked
away in a corner in a warehouse somewhere. I remember seeing forms in
the back of books for such orders, but I can't find any in the nearest
stack at the moment. :-) Usually all you need is the ISBN (trivial)
and the price of the book plus a small handling fee. Look around your
collections and see if you can find a Bantam book with such a form.
--
Mike Long
[email protected]
VLSI Design Engineer voice: (617)461-4030
Analog Devices, SPD Div. FAX: (617)461-3010
Norwood, MA 02062 *this = !opinion(Analog);
****************
*** 04-11-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: next question...
--------
Any ideas on what the Living Flame is?
Sean.
****************
*** 04-16-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: the telepaths
--------
A couple of points about the telepaths and telepathy, while we're all
waiting for the next books to come out :).
a) Did everyone notice that telepathy is instantaneous, or at least so
much faster than _c_ that it doesn't matter? (When Denice touched Trent's
mind in _The Long Run_, while he was on Luna.)
b) Carl says that reading minds is painful -- yet none of the telepaths
ever show that. Denice is afraid for Trent to touch her, when she's not
sure of who he is, and she did not like being touched by what's-her-name,
at the end of _Emerald Eyes_ -- but, despite how much we see things from
her point of view, we never really see any of the discomfort or pain.
So... was Carl exaggerating (or out and out lying?) for PR reasons?
Sean.
****************
*** 04-16-94 ***
****************
From: "mark l. williamson" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: the telepaths
--------
[email protected] writes:
>A couple of points about the telepaths and telepathy, while we're all
>waiting for the next books to come out :).
>a) Did everyone notice that telepathy is instantaneous, or at least so
>much faster than _c_ that it doesn't matter? (When Denice touched Trent's
>mind in _The Long Run_, while he was on Luna.)
It certainly looks that way but if that's the case it means that Denise
is a LOT^ more powerful than Carl. In EE he couldn't find Carson when
he and the twins were just a few kms away and screened by a few thousand
nearby people.
>b) Carl says that reading minds is painful -- yet none of the telepaths
>ever show that. Denice is afraid for Trent to touch her, when she's not
>sure of who he is, and she did not like being touched by what's-her-name,
>at the end of _Emerald Eyes_ -- but, despite how much we see things from
>her point of view, we never really see any of the discomfort or pain.
>So... was Carl exaggerating (or out and out lying?) for PR reasons?
I think Carl was refering mostly to the other Telepaths, remember that he
was more than a little different from the rest (both mentally due to his
early years and he was genetically different from all the other telepaths
except for his immediate family). Jany McConnel certainly felt pain, of
course that could have been just emotional pain. At least two occasions
with Denice come to mind immediately. The time when Denice was leaving
Goddess Home and had to 'adjust' Alaya and the time she had to 'adjust'
Ichabod while interviewing for the bodyguard position with Ripper. Both
times she ends up with apparantly very HEAVY DUTY headaches. Cannot think
up any others off the top of my head, but I imagine there are other examples.
>Sean.
--
Mark
[email protected]
****************
*** 04-17-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Emerald Eyes...
--------
I finally got a copy of Emerald Eyes and finished it in one sitting.
As I read it, I kept getting a feeling of Deja Vu, as though I've read
it before. Has it ever been published in a different form? (I could
have read a library copy before...)
The really impressive thing, now that I've read all of Moran's novel
is how good he's become. Emerald Eyes was stilted in parts but still
good, but by the time of "The Long Run", Moran had lost all of the
stiltedness in his early novels. His style was transparent, easy to
read, yet conveyed subtlety well. In "The Last Dancer", he's
demonstrated that he's capable of conveying the "inside" of a person
as well as the outside, and that's fantastic.
Among other things, it's finally been clear to me at an emotional
level that Moran's plotted out everything in advance...
Unfortunately, Emerald Eyes kinda spoils the suspense of who Denise is
going to be attached to for me, as I now know that she's going to be
attached to Ripper...
I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the next novel...
Piaw
Time is an illusion perpetrated by the manufacturers of space.
- Graffiti
****************
*** 04-17-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected],
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Emerald Eyes...
--------
On Sat, 16 Apr 1994
[email protected] wrote:
> Among other things, it's finally been clear to me at an emotional
> level that Moran's plotted out everything in advance...
> Unfortunately, Emerald Eyes kinda spoils the suspense of who Denise is
> going to be attached to for me, as I now know that she's going to be
> attached to Ripper...
Actually that was clear in tLR as she is mentionned once or twice as
Denice Ripper. On p. 338, there's a quotation from The Exodus Bible by
Melissa du Bois saying "With the certain exception of Denice Ripper..."
I find that EE only makes sens on every level if one has read the two
other books.
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 04-17-94 ***
****************
From: joel isaac singer <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (dkm mailing list)
Subject: Emerald Eyes
--------
Carl may have been so different from the other telepaths because he was
created "en masse" by the Name Storyteller, and not designed gene-by-gene
by Suzanne Montigenet. Also, being the first, and the only one around for
a fair amount of time, it wouldn't suprise me to know that he had been
"experimented" on by the PKF for some years, which shouldn't help his
sanity any. The clearest indication is that he didn't get absorbed into
the Person the telepaths became just before the end.
And I believe that _many_ things we don't really understand in Emerald Eyes
will not become apparent until the 20th book or so down the line. Like the
reference to the Name Storyteller possibly dying in a library around 3200,
or why the weapon designed by the Lady Blue is so deadly.
Joel Singer Stanford University
[email protected]
--
"Gee, Brain, what are we gonna do tonight?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world!"
****************
*** 04-18-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected] (dkm mailing list)
Subject: Letter to Bantam
--------
After much Procrastinating, I finally got around to writing the letter
below... I'll mail it to Bantam on Monday.
Piaw
----------------
\documentstyle[regular-margins,11pt]{article}
\begin{document}
\noindent Dear Sir/Madam,
I bought a copy of ``The Long Run'', by Daniel Keys Moran a couple of
months back at a used bookstore. My first impression was: ``this is
wonderful.'' My second thought was: ``why haven't I heard of Moran
before? What else has he written?''
Being a graduate student of computer science, it was a simple matter
for me to link to the internet and post my question on a bulletin
board devoted to science fiction there. The reply arrived pretty
quickly --- he'd written 4 other books, they were all out of print
except ``The Last Dancer'', and there was an electronic mailing list
devoted to discussions of his work.
I bought ``The Last Dancer'', and loved it, and began a long arduous
search for the rest of his books. I looked in used book store after
used book store --- none of them had ``Emerald Eyes'', ``Armageddon
Blues'' or ``The Ring.'' When I asked my name to be put down on their
want-list, there was invariably at least one other person ahead of me
on the list.
My desperation increased a month later when I visited Berkeley and
found ``The Ring'' and ``Armageddon Blues'' at high prices (which I
gladly paid) but no ``Emerald Eyes.'' I resorted again to posting on
the net asking for ``Emerald Eyes.'' Someone was able to produce a
copy, and I again gladly paid the price requested, which included
shipping from Canada.
I am writing this to you to inform you that Daniel Keys Moran is a
real find, and to request that you reprint his books if possible, and
keep his current books in print. My brothers, my friends and I are
now fighting over my tattered copies of ``Emerald Eyes'' and ``The
Long Run'', and many of them have expressed a willingness to pay well
above the standard paperback price for copies of his now out of print
books, as have many others on the internet.
\vskip 0.5in
\noindent Sincerely,
\vskip 0.5in
\noindent Piaw Na \\
\noindent 4/16/94 \\
\noindent 5219 16th Ave NE, \\
\noindent Seattle, WA 98105-3414
\end{document}
****************
*** 04-18-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (mike rosenberg)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: the telepaths
--------
b) i thought it was only "deep probes" that were painful.
c) (new question)...i am rereading _The Long Run_
and realized that i have no idea who nathan dark-clouds
really is. do we know that yet?
(these books are the most re-readable books i have ever
experienced).
mike
****************
*** 04-18-94 ***
****************
From: "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Nathan Dark-Clouds
--------
> c) (new question)...i am rereading _The Long Run_
> and realized that i have no idea who nathan dark-clouds
> really is. do we know that yet?
>
In the background on the actual Long Run (The Speedfreaks) in EE, I think it
said it was lead by a husband and wife, where the wife was executed and the
hubby never found... Something made me think that was him. I don't remember
exactly what... Anyone?
>
> mike
>
>
****************
*** 04-18-94 ***
****************
From: mike long <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected],
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Nathan Dark-Clouds
Reply-To: Mike Long <
[email protected]>
Organization: Analog Devices Inc, Norwood MA, USA
X-Attribution: MWL
--------
>From: "Patrick G. Bridges" <
[email protected]>
>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 9:48:23 CDT
>
>> c) (new question)...i am rereading _The Long Run_
>> and realized that i have no idea who nathan dark-clouds
>> really is. do we know that yet?
>
>>
>In the background on the actual Long Run (The Speedfreaks) in EE, I think it
>said it was lead by a husband and wife, where the wife was executed and the
>hubby never found... Something made me think that was him. I don't remember
>exactly what... Anyone?
Reread the part of TLR where Trent and Nathan meet and get to know
each other. Nathan's Speedfreak history is explained somewhere in
there. If I remember correctly, Trent comes to the conclusion that
Nathan is the Speedfreak leader who got away.
--
Mike Long
[email protected]
VLSI Design Engineer voice: (617)461-4030
Analog Devices, SPD Div. FAX: (617)461-3010
Norwood, MA 02062 *this = !opinion(Analog);
****************
*** 04-18-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (carol wang)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: the telepaths
--------
[email protected] writes:
=- b) Carl says that reading minds is painful -- yet none of the telepaths
=- ever show that.
it's not the reading of minds that is painful, it is physical contact
with non-telepaths (uncontrolled reading of non-tp?). this is
demonstrated a couple of times. denise's "awakening" at the end of
EE (don't touch me, it hurts). jany mc's contact with the sandoval
(?? bad guy who used a snake to kill one of the telpaths) at a party.
they explained that what caused the pain to the telepaths was the
guilt that normal people experience.
therefore the inconsistency is why denise doesn't suffer pain when
touching all the people she does in tLD. trent actually asks her if
it would hurt when meet in tLR but she says something along the lines
of "you could never hurt me" sorta thing.
the other people she touches are: ripper, the kid (oops, major memory
loss), his sister, the other last dancer and the hunter. with none of
these does she actually have any after-effects.
carol
****************
*** 04-18-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected],
[email protected] (carol wang)
Subject: the telepaths
--------
>the other people she touches are: ripper, the kid (oops, major memory
>loss), his sister, the other last dancer and the hunter. with none of
>these does she actually have any after-effects.
I assume you mean any *lasting* after-effects. I'd say that getting
knocked out for several days after a "touch" would be a hell of an
after-effect... (D'van's case) It's just odd to me that she didn't
have the same thing happen with Sedon.
Piaw
"Oh with a mind that renders everything sensitive
What chance do I have here?
Put an end put an end
Put an end to every dream..."
--- Kate Bush, "Not this time"
****************
*** 04-18-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Hm...
--------
So, can anyone suggest reasons why Denise didn't try to "change" David
the way she did other humans? It would seem a better solution than
killing him...
Maybe it's because he's a telepath and can't be "changed"...
Piaw
Admiration: Our polite recognition of another's resemblance to ourselves.
****************
*** 04-18-94 ***
****************
From: "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected],
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Hm...
--------
>
> So, can anyone suggest reasons why Denise didn't try to "change" David
> the way she did other humans? It would seem a better solution than
> killing him...
>
> Maybe it's because he's a telepath and can't be "changed"...
>
Well, there was Carl's quotethat went something like "You're better than
they are...", which would have to rankle on David and Denice.
Wouldn't he have to know that she was going to kill him (they are telepaths in
full contact)? I assumed that he almost (or really) wanted to die...
*Shrug*
Patrick
****************
*** 04-18-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (dave weil)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Hm...
--------
> > So, can anyone suggest reasons why Denise didn't try to "change" David
> > the way she did other humans? It would seem a better solution than
> > killing him...
> Well, there was Carl's quotethat went something like "You're better than
> they are...", which would have to rankle on David and Denice.
> Wouldn't he have to know that she was going to kill him (they are telepaths in
> full contact)? I assumed that he almost (or really) wanted to die...
> *Shrug*
I got the distinct impression that David wanted to die; didn't want to
live any longer with what he'd become. And as for Denice going along
with it - if you truly love someone, know what it is they most want
because you can see into his/her head, and are able to fulfill that wish,
are you going to deny him/her that? And as for "changing" David, well,
he wouldn't be David anymore, would he? (Even assuming the "change" can
overcome a wire-head addiction.)
It startled me when I first read it, but now it seems marvelously apt.
- Dave
****************
*** 04-20-94 ***
****************
From: david silberstein <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Nathan Dark-Clouds
--------
>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 10:58:31 EDT
>From: Mike Long <
[email protected]>
>
>>From: "Patrick G. Bridges" <
[email protected]>
>>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 9:48:23 CDT
>>
>>> c) (new question)...i am rereading _The Long Run_
>>> and realized that i have no idea who nathan dark-clouds
>>> really is. do we know that yet?
>>
>>>
>>In the background on the actual Long Run (The Speedfreaks) in EE, I think it
>>said it was lead by a husband and wife, where the wife was executed and the
>>hubby never found... Something made me think that was him. I don't remember
>>exactly what... Anyone?
>
>Reread the part of TLR where Trent and Nathan meet and get to know
>each other. Nathan's Speedfreak history is explained somewhere in
>there. If I remember correctly, Trent comes to the conclusion that
>Nathan is the Speedfreak leader who got away.
Nathan St. Denver, (Maria Alatorre was his wife), was the leader.
Its in the last few pages of EE (Interlude: 2062-2069).
By the way, here's an interesting tidbit for those who are interested
in the Speedfreaks:
>From The New York Times, Tuesday Apr. 12, 1994 (Science times, Q&A):
Racing the Sun
Q. What speed would you have to travel to keep the rising Sun forever
on the horizon?
A. Assuming a day of 25 hours and an amphibious vehicle driven westward
at sea level along the 24,901 mile-long Equator, with no rest stops,
traffic jams or other physical obstacles, a speed of 1,038 miles per hour
[note: 1,661 kph] would do the job, said Dr. Neil D. Tyson, an
astrophysicist at Princeton University and author of "Universe Down to
Earth" (Columbia University Press). The local time zones would change
from hour to hour, so it would always be the same time of day.
The speed of Earth's rotation varies slightly with the seasons and
othre factors and is gradually slowing a millisecond or so a century
because of the tidal friction of the ocean against the shores, so the
required speed can be ever so slightly slower or faster.
--David
"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill
of speed overcomes the fear of death"
****************
*** 04-23-94 ***
****************
From: windsor d williams <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (dk_moran list)
Subject: Several thoughts
--------
Hello everyone! I've _finally_ managed to borrow a copy of _EE_
long enough to read it. I feel like maybe I understand things a
little better now. As a result of my reading (and re-reading the
other books), I've now got a few thoughts and some questions.
In _EE_ note is made (I think during a conversation between Carl
and Kalharri (sp? - I don't have the book to check)) that Carl has
the ability to go for extended periods (like a couple of weeks)
without sleeping, without it seriously affecting him. It is hinted
(or guessed) that David and Denice may also have this ability. Has
any sign of this shown up in anything since? How might it play a role
in events?
We see a bit more about the origins/position of Ripper...that he is
an associate/protege of Belinda Singer. Without this reference, it
had seemed like Ripper just appeared out of nowhere as a major
character in _tLD_. (OK, ok...there is a _brief_ mention of him in
_tLR_ in a news story, but that's it.) Gives me a different idea of
what he may stand for, now that I know.
We see several key events from the viewpoint of Name Storyteller,
with some interesting implications just scattered all over the place.
The Spacething Library? Camber just learning his abilities to move
through time? A council of Zaradin beginning the Time Wars? Etc.
These items led me to wonder - just what do we know about the
motivations/goals of either Storyteller or Camber Tremodian?
In _EE_ Storyteller is mostly busy keeping events flowing
"correctly" (at least, correctly as he sees it), so that his
ancestors don't fail to produce (eventually) him. But what is he
really trying to achieve? Camber doesn't really seem out to stop
Storyteller's future from coming to pass (I recall some sort of
conversation between Camber and a minion (Robert?) where he makes it
clear that Carl's death during the roadway sequence in _EE_ would
have spared trouble later and not prevented the future because David
and Denice had already been born.) On the other hand, would changes
prevent Camber's future (as a nightface and UEI member)?
What is the connection of the nightfaces and UEI, anyway?
Storyteller mentions the three greatest nightfaces as being Camber,
Lady Blue, and (? - can't recall the name). There's some implication
that the nightfaces worked for/were part of UEI, yet he makes a
statement that Lady Blue is never mentioned in UEI headquarters. Any
ideas on this one, anybody?
On the subject of the ending of _tLD_ (David dying with Denice
doing the deed, so to speak), during my re-reading the poem/song
fragment at the opening of _tLR_ struck me as being of interest.
Anyway, this probably was rather chaotic. Lots of stuff percolating
in my brain after reading _EE_ for the first time. Thanks for any
feedback.
Windsor
****************
*** 04-23-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Several thoughts
--------
> We see a bit more about the origins/position of Ripper...that he is
>an associate/protege of Belinda Singer.
Belinda Singer was was around before the Unification, and apparantly
has strong feelings about the USA. (She should have gotten together
with Ring, too bad :).) Ripper, although born after the Unification,
also has strong feelings about it (remember, he was a member of Congress).
>Without this reference, it
>had seemed like Ripper just appeared out of nowhere as a major
>character in _tLD_.
Don't forget that he also, apparantly, marries Denice, and that was
stated in EE.
>The Spacething Library?
Yes. The Spacethings are inorganic, space-borne entities. Plasma or
energy clouds, I guess. They have been around for a very long time.
For some reason, humanity goes to war with them (_Lord November:
The Man-Spacething War_).
>Camber just learning his abilities to move through time?
Yes. Storyteller probably had the same learning experience, unless
he met with the Zaradin "earlier" than Camber did.
>A council of Zaradin beginning the Time Wars?
The Time Wars had something to do with the Envoy, it seems. Maybe they
were trying to break out of this universe?
>These items led me to wonder - just what do we know about the
>motivations/goals of either Storyteller or Camber Tremodian?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Both think they are in the right, and
each is trying to kill the other. Both are under some constraints and
have certain goals (Storyteller can't endanger Denice, because he is
descended from her, while Camber doesn't want to, since they were
involved closely with his ancestry; he *can*, though, he thinks, if he
needs to).
Camber seems to have a great deal of anger towards the universe. We don't
know why, yet. We will probably find out why when the Camber novels come
out. (If?)
>But what is he
>really trying to achieve?
That is debatable. As Storyteller himself says, there is not a lot of
free will available to time travellers. Some things he does because he
knows he's already done them, and he *has* to do them.
>Camber doesn't really seem out to stop
>Storyteller's future from coming to pass
In EE, Camber, the one time he shows up, is relatively young, and is just
trying to (it seems) kill Storyteller. Or maybe just Carl; I'd have to
reread it to make sure.
> What is the connection of the nightfaces and UEI, anyway?
The nightfaces at UEI work as agents of some sort. Maybe asassins.
>Storyteller mentions the three greatest nightfaces as being Camber,
>Lady Blue, and (? - can't recall the name). There's some implication
>that the nightfaces worked for/were part of UEI, yet he makes a
>statement that Lady Blue is never mentioned in UEI headquarters. Any
>ideas on this one, anybody?
Yes. Lady Blue created so much death and destruction that her name was
stricken from the records, and nobody talks about her anymore. There is
that much associated with her.
Sean.
****************
*** 04-23-94 ***
****************
From: josh kaderlan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected],
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Several thoughts
--------
On Fri, 22 Apr 1994
[email protected] wrote:
>
> >The Spacething Library?
>
> Yes. The Spacethings are inorganic, space-borne entities. Plasma or
> energy clouds, I guess. They have been around for a very long time.
> For some reason, humanity goes to war with them (_Lord November:
> The Man-Spacething War_).
>
Where was this? I don't remember any previous mention of the
Spacethings; I always figured the term referred to the Sleem. Not
questioning your veracity, just wondering where I missed it.
Josh
****************
*** 04-23-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Several thoughts
--------
>> Yes. The Spacethings are inorganic, space-borne entities. Plasma or
>> energy clouds, I guess. They have been around for a very long time.
>> For some reason, humanity goes to war with them (_Lord November:
>> The Man-Spacething War_).
>Where was this? I don't remember any previous mention of the
>Spacethings; I always figured the term referred to the Sleem. Not
>questioning your veracity, just wondering where I missed it.
Which part?
The spacethings being inorganic, space-born entities, plasma or
energy clouds I guess: I'd seen the reference in _Emerald Eyes_, and
then a couple in DKM's timeline (Spacethings [7M BC], Lord November:
the Man-Spacething War [2676-2682]), so I asked him about them, and
he confirmed my guess: the spacethings are, well, things that live
in space. They've been around for a very long time, obviously. Not
as long as the Zaradin, I guess, but they're a very strange case.
The Sleem are referred to seperately in the timeline; also, there is
only one reference (I think) to the Sleem in all three novels, and that
is _The Last Dancer_. Well, that's not true: we learn quite a bit about
the Sleem in tLD, and we know that one of the Zaradin gods is a Sleem.
But it's all in tLD, so I count that as a single reference :).
Sean.
****************
*** 04-23-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected] (dk_moran list)
Subject: Several thoughts
--------
windsor writes:
> On the subject of the ending of _tLD_ (David dying with Denice
>doing the deed, so to speak), during my re-reading the poem/song
>fragment at the opening of _tLR_ struck me as being of interest.
Don't remember whether I posted this before or not --- think I did. Note
that, as the song is written after _tLD_, it could refer to Denice and
David, but seems more likely to refer to Trent. After all, she seems
to have a crush on him, and he could practically be Named "Run Away".
-Sol
ps For those of you who don't have it handy, the song ends
"[My love] ran into another life
I guess he's running still"
and is by Kutura.
****************
*** 04-26-94 ***
****************
From: windsor d williams <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (dk_moran list)
Subject: Envoy of Order and the Nameless One
--------
Hello again everyone. I've been continuing my re-read of the books
(since I finally got to read _EE_), and I've got a few more things
I'm wondering about now.
When Storyteller speaks with Trent (through his avatar Neil
Corona), he describes the coming and binding of the Envoy of Order.
Apparently the Serathin Gods are worried that Trent may be another
such Envoy (or the same one? these time wars make me wonder), and
Storyteller is warning Trent that if so, he will be opposed by the
Great Gods.
Except for Camber, the "renegade God of Players," who apparently
could be assumed to be on the side of such an Envoy. Why would
Camber, alone of the ten greater gods, side with Order? Could this
have something to do with his Name (the scream of pain/rage which
contains a name)? And if he has a name, why is he nameless? I know, I
know, he just is...but he gives his name to Denice on the black plain
(or whatever you want to call it), apparently feeling she _might_
understand it. Hmmm...any ideas here, people?
I'm guessing that most of this is based on Camber's story, of how
he became a God in the first place. He mentions to Denice that Sedon
almost took his path (presumably the path of becoming a god) but did
not...what is required for a person to be able to take that path?
Innate power? Position in history? Time traveling ability (innate or
not...we don't really know for sure)?
Anyway, just speculating and thought I'd see if anybody had some
thought on this stuff.
Windsor
****************
*** 04-26-94 ***
****************
From: marcus eubanks <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Trent and the Flame.
--------
Of course, whether Trent is another envoy or not, he's at least somewhat
sensitive to the Flame. Remember the scene on the roof-top with Jimmy and
Denise, where Denise speaks of *doing* something and then loses her
temper. At some point in her monologue, Trent observes that she seems to
be covered in sheets of blue flame. So not only is Trent able to see
this, but Denise is already able to call the Flame to some extent.
Marcus Eubanks (n3etr) Temple Med '96 Philadelphia, PA USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Which form do you fill out when a dead terrorist brings a hand-cuffed,
SLUDding organophosphate victim in off the street?"
****************
*** 04-26-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: TLR, TLD and information
--------
Case A: Sieur' Blain knows used Complex 8-A in the Peaceforcer Heaven. Yet
the journalists, till Trent intervenes, do not. We could make a point
that Blain has access to uncommon sources of information. If so, why give
the info to the unknown Thomas Vera? This raises further questions on
whether the PKF is full of information holes or impermeable as some pretend.
Case B: Everyone knows that Trent has walked through a wall after the
fact. This obviously signifies that the PKF is full of holes. What
interest would they have in glorifying, even mythifying, their number 1
enemy? Issueing an APB saying: suspect can walk through walls:).
Case C: Trent explains to Corona that Eddore does not want the PKF/Space
Force on the halfway relay station because this will tip the Rebs and the
Claw off. This gives more credibility to the thesis that the PKF is full of
holes.
Case D: Yet Vance is confident that only the PKF will know of Mirabeau's
crimes by the end of TLD. Wishful thinking? Is Vance that naive?
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 04-26-94 ***
****************
From: mike long <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: TLR, TLD and information
Reply-To: Mike Long <
[email protected]>
Organization: Analog Devices Inc, Norwood MA, USA
X-Attribution: MWL
--------
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 14:00:41 -0400 (EDT)
>From: "J.C. DuVal" <
[email protected]>
>Case D: Yet Vance is confident that only the PKF will know of Mirabeau's
>crimes by the end of TLD. Wishful thinking? Is Vance that naive?
Did any PKF know of Mirabeau's crimes who were not Elite? (I can't
remember, time to reread! :-) The regular PKF may be full of holes,
but the Elite should be able to keep a secret better.
--
Mike Long
[email protected]
VLSI Design Engineer voice: (617)461-4030
Analog Devices, SPD Division FAX: (617)461-3010
Norwood, MA 02062 USA assert(*this!=opinionof(Analog));
****************
*** 04-27-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (rodrick su)
To:
[email protected], "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: TLR, TLD and information
--------
On Apr 26, 2:00pm, "J.C. DuVal" wrote:
} Case A: Sieur' Blain knows used Complex 8-A in the Peaceforcer Heaven. Yet
} the journalists, till Trent intervenes, do not. We could make a point
} that Blain has access to uncommon sources of information. If so, why give
} the info to the unknown Thomas Vera? This raises further questions on
} whether the PKF is full of information holes or impermeable as some pretend.
Blain must have known about the Peaceforcer Heaven incident. The
PKF are cracking down on the compond rather hard because of it.
And Blain does not deal in legal substances.
--
[ Rodrick Su [ If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for ]
[----------------------[ skydiving. [ ``Games of the Hangman'' ]
[
[email protected] ]------------------------[ Victor O'Reilly ]
****************
*** 04-27-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], rodrick su <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: TLR, TLD and information
--------
On Tue, 26 Apr 1994, Rodrick Su wrote:
> On Apr 26, 2:00pm, "J.C. DuVal" wrote:
> } Case A: Sieur' Blain knows used Complex 8-A in the Peaceforcer Heaven. Yet
> } the journalists, till Trent intervenes, do not. We could make a point
> } that Blain has access to uncommon sources of information. If so, why give
> } the info to the unknown Thomas Vera? This raises further questions on
> } whether the PKF is full of information holes or impermeable as some pretend.
>
>
> Blain must have known about the Peaceforcer Heaven incident. The
> PKF are cracking down on the compond rather hard because of it.
> And Blain does not deal in legal substances.
>
He would know the PKF were cracking down on it, but would he know why?
The point that I am making is that while Trent's journey through
Peaceforcer Heaven, the mayor Noah knows about it, must have been pretty much
public knowledge, his use of Fadeaway was not, at least till the news
conference.
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From: joseph martin scarr <
[email protected]>
To: conttime <
[email protected]>
Subject: Walking through walls...
--------
I'm sure you all remember the scene where Trent walks through the wall of
the Briefing Room on Luna. Phenomenal. Fantastic. Incredible.
A fantastic scene -- well-executed. It had excellent reactions by the
witnessing Peaceforcers -- not to mention a momentous description of the
whole scene.
And just enough clues to figure out how Trent walked through that wall in
the Briefing Room on Luna.
Any guesses? Touched by the Flame? Cut a hole in the wall and
seamlessly reconstructed it? Or is Trent really a God/Player of
supernatural ability?
For the sake of maintaining the mysterium and legendary nature of this
moment, I will warn you that what you will find after scrolling down a
ways (to protect the 'ignorance is bliss' crowd) is a theory on how it
all happened.
You can choose not to read it and wait until Moran writes some book in
the future where Vance is "questioned by his superiors [and] could not
say exactly where the thought had come from." (all cites are from Daniel
Keys Moran's The Long Run, Bantam Spectra 1989) which I hope Moran does
because I'd like to know if I am right...
We begin on page 320 where we are introduced to the Briefing Room. It is
described as having a long oval table make of something resembling
beechwood.
It is at this point that Trent is being interrogated as Benny Gutierrez
by a panel of PKF.
I establish this point to assert that this is the same briefing room he
walks through later.
On page 325 Melissa DuBois escorts Trent to the same briefing room for
further questioning.
This room is cited as the same one where Trent had undergone the previous
questioning.
This is where the critical evidence lies for dispelling the belief that
anything supernatural happened when Trent appeared to walk through the wall.
Second paragraph:
"It was completely dark except for the briefing room's holo
projectors; ... The lasers were buried in the wall just above the point
where the walls met the floor."
Now, on pages 358-359 we encounter the walking-through-walls scene.
"The wide double doors curled quietly aside. The lights inside
were glaring, the glowpaint turned high.
"Trent stood inside, on the other side of the long oval
conference table, watching as the doors opened.
"...without saying a word, and then simply nodded once, smiled,
and turned away from Vance, turned his back on the Peaceforcers and their
weapons and walked straight into the wall.
"And through it.
"The moment simply hung there.
"And hung.
Trent used the holo projectors to simulate his being there.
Even on page 358 when Vance asks one of the Elite in the area if he
observed Trent entering the room, the Elite responds: "We saw him through
the doorway before he closed it."
Note that the Elite did not respond: "Yes, we saw him _go in_" as Vance
specifically asks. The Elite's response means he did not see Trent enter
the briefing room, but only saw his appearance inside it. Vance should
have picked this up. Oh well. You have to tell a good story.
The good thing about Moran is that he doesn't cop out.
So much for that.
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From: mike long <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Walking through walls...
Reply-To: Mike Long <
[email protected]>
Organization: Analog Devices Inc, Norwood MA, USA
X-Attribution: MWL
--------
>Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 10:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Joseph Martin Scarr <
[email protected]>
>I'm sure you all remember the scene where Trent walks through the wall of
>the Briefing Room on Luna. Phenomenal. Fantastic. Incredible.
>Any guesses? Touched by the Flame? Cut a hole in the wall and
>seamlessly reconstructed it? Or is Trent really a God/Player of
>supernatural ability?
>For the sake of maintaining the mysterium and legendary nature of this
>moment, I will warn you that what you will find after scrolling down a
>ways (to protect the 'ignorance is bliss' crowd) is a theory on how it
>all happened.
I'll say HERE THERE BE SPOILERS, although I'm sure all of your have
read TLR many times.
I think your theory is correct in every way but one: I think Ralf was
the one who set up the projectors, not Trent. Anything Trent had put
into the system probably would have been hosed when the LINK went
down. When did he have the time to set it up?
Ralf, on the other hand, is in full control of all of the computers
in the Farside base during Trent's escape. Setting up the holo would
have been a trivial task for him.
--
Mike Long
[email protected]
VLSI Design Engineer
Analog Devices, SPD Division
Norwood, MA 02062 USA assert(*this!=opinionof(Analog));
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From: wesley mcdermott <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Walking through walls...
--------
Ralf for sure, since there is also the strong implication
that Trent didn't know (at first) why the guards had left the airlock
posts; Trent is sufficiently smart that had he
set up a holograph he would have thought through the implications...
(:
W.
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Walking through walls... *SPOILERS*!!!!
--------
This is yet another thing I mentioned to dkm, back when I was exchanging
email with him. His response to my pointing out the theory that Ralf
operated the holoprojectors was something like
Yes, Vance figures that out and tells Trent just before
he kills him.
Moran *did not say* that this was true. He also implied that *Trent*
never said what happened!
It is deliberately ambiguous. Odds are that it was Ralf, but... in
that universe, you don't take *anything* at face value.
Sean.
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From: "mark l. williamson" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Walking thru walls
--------
>>In every case that I found, Trent never acknowledges
>>it, but usually deflected the conversation to some other topic.
>However, when he finds out that Sedon has a higher price on his head than
>Trent does, he says, "But I walked through a wall!" (And then the singer
>says "But you said you didn't do that", I think, but I couldn't find it
>in tLD so I'm not sure exactly what happens :).)
>Sean.
tLD page 163. Actually, she was responding to Trent when he said he had
killed Peaceforcers Elite and blew up half of Peaceforcer Heaven. But
right after that he goes on to claim that he did walk through a wall.
However, Trent DOES have a reputation as a big time liar. I imagine that
after a few years of getting asked about it, he decided to start taking
credit (at least occasionally) for what was probably Ralfs work.
--
Mark
[email protected]
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (mike rosenberg)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Walking through walls
--------
moran commented on this some time ago...here's the msg:
---
Article 12350 of rec.arts.sf.written:
Path: s5!uunet!usc!cheshire.oxy.edu!mcws!techsys!pain!d_moran
From:
[email protected] (Daniel Keys Moran)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Continuing Time
Message-ID: <
[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:59:46 PDT
Organization: Public Access Info Network (818/776-1447)
Lines: 30
Simon Tong (stong@ariel) mentioned that people were arguing about this
over here -- this being the damn wall again.
Relax, okay? Think whatever you like about it. David Gerrold thought
that Trent had walked through the wall (and was pissed that I hadn't set
up Trent's ability to do so more thoroughly); Amy Stout, my former editor
at Bantam who I love and who is one of the very nicest people I've ever
met, decided instantly upon reading the mss. that Trent had never walked
through the wall, that it was a holograph set up by Ralf the Wise and
Powerful.
All I'm really inclined to say about it is, I ain't saying.
I will say that one argument I've been told about is incorrect. Trent
did not cut through the wall with an emblade, and then display a holof of
the wall over the hole in the wall. The wall was solid. So ... either
Trent walked through the wall, or Ralf animated a holo of him walking
through the wall.
It's not an accident, BTW, that all that setup regarding the holo
theory is there. By the time of the AI War, Mohammed Vance has figured
out that it was just a holo, and tells Trent so just before killing him.
Whether that's a correct deduction or not, I ain't saying.
Was told today by Betsy Mitchell at Bantam that "The Last Dancer" is
scheduled for Fall '93. I wish it could be sooner, but it's out of my
hands. However, next books in the series should come pretty quick on its
heels.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled arguing....
"There are no longer "dancers," the possessed. The cleavage of men into
actors and spectators is the central fact of our times. We are obsessed
with heroes who live for us and whom we punish . . . We have
metapmorphised from a mad body dancing on hillsides to a pair of eyes
staring in the dark." -- Jim Morrison, quoted in "The Last Dancer."
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Walking through walls
--------
>In every case that I found, Trent never acknowledges
>it, but usually deflected the conversation to some other topic.
However, when he finds out that Sedon has a higher price on his head than
Trent does, he says, "But I walked through a wall!" (And then the singer
says "But you said you didn't do that", I think, but I couldn't find it
in tLD so I'm not sure exactly what happens :).)
Sean.
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From: "jim l. sather" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Walking through walls
--------
In this scene Trent is also described as limping before and after the
room, but not while he is purportedly in it. I consider this another hint...
I also looked thru TLD once to find all the places I could where people
meet Trent and say, "Did you really walk thru a wall?..." or something
to that effect. In every case that I found, Trent never acknowledges
it, but usually deflected the conversation to some other topic. So I
don't know of any case where Trent himself claims to have walked thru the wall.
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From: russell katz <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: New Person
--------
I have been contacted by a Moran reader that wants to join this list.
I have forgotten how to suscribe.....
How do you suscribe to this list again?
Russell Katz
*************************************************************************
* The Crystal Wind is the Storm, * Daniel K. Moran: * Russell Katz *
* and The Storm is Data, * "Emerald Eyes" *
[email protected]*
* and the Data is Life. * and * *
* -The Player's Litany * "The Long Run" * *
*************************************************************************
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (rob mace)
To: joseph martin scarr <
[email protected]>, conttime <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Walking through walls...
--------
> On page 325 Melissa DuBois escorts Trent to the same briefing room for
> further questioning.
>
> ...
>
> Second paragraph:
>
> "It was completely dark except for the briefing room's holo
> projectors; ... The lasers were buried in the wall just above the point
> where the walls met the floor."
>
>
> Now, on pages 358-359 we encounter the walking-through-walls scene.
>
> "The wide double doors curled quietly aside. The lights inside
> were glaring, the glowpaint turned high.
> "Trent stood inside, on the other side of the long oval
> conference table, watching as the doors opened.
> "...without saying a word, and then simply nodded once, smiled,
> and turned away from Vance, turned his back on the Peaceforcers and their
> weapons and walked straight into the wall.
> "And through it.
> "The moment simply hung there.
> "And hung.
>
>
> Trent used the holo projectors to simulate his being there.
As others have pointed out it is more likely that Ralf was the one to use
the holo projectors.
I don't have the exact quotes/page numbers, but here is the gist. Shortly
before this scene we find out that Ralf is pondering how too help Trent
escape. So we know that Ralf is looking for a way to help and we also
know that Ralf is in control of the complex's systems which should give
him control of the holo projectors.
Next when Trent reaches the air lock he is supprised to find it unguarded.
He then remembers the shout of "We got him". I don't think he knew that
he had just walked through a wall.
Now for the problem I see with the theory.
I included your two quotes because there is a fundamental difference in them.
"It was completely dark except for..."
and
"The lights inside were glaring, the glowpaint turned high."
Do the holo projectors in Moran's universe of this time work well in full
light. And if so do they work well enough to fool a bunch of elites, with
their special vision. And if they work well in full light why are the
lights off in the first scene. I have not gone and checked to see what
the state of the room lights are in other scenes with holo's. If you
know of any please point them out.
I still wonder if the holo explanation is red herring.
Rob Mace
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From: "jim l. sather" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: RE: Walking thru walls
--------
----------
| From: "Mark L. Williamson" <
[email protected]>
|
| >>In every case that I found, Trent never acknowledges
| >>it, but usually deflected the conversation to some other topic.
|
| >However, when he finds out that Sedon has a higher price on his head than
| >Trent does, he says, "But I walked through a wall!" (And then the singer
| >says "But you said you didn't do that", I think, but I couldn't find it
| >in tLD so I'm not sure exactly what happens :).)
|
| >Sean.
|
| tLD page 163. Actually, she was responding to Trent when he said he had
| killed Peaceforcers Elite and blew up half of Peaceforcer Heaven. But
| right after that he goes on to claim that he did walk through a wall.
| However, Trent DOES have a reputation as a big time liar. I imagine that
| after a few years of getting asked about it, he decided to start taking
| credit (at least occasionally) for what was probably Ralfs work.
|
| --
| Mark
|
[email protected]
My take on this is that he's reacting more to the public image, and a
feeling of what price somebody with his reputation (killed elites,
walked thru a wall, etc) should command, even though he knows he didn't
do half of the things he's reputed to have done.
Jim
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From: william lewis <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Walking through walls
--------
> "But I walked through a wall!"
I agree with <
[email protected]>. Trent is referring to his reputation,
which need have little to do with his actual history. He is miffed that
this Sedon character is demanding a higher bounty than he is. I seem to
remember a scene early in tLR, or perhaps EE, in which Trent discovers
that he's become well known and loved at the local law enforcement office
(I forget which branch), and is *quite* pleased, almost gleeful, that he's
being noticed. Later he reacts similarly to the appellation "Uncatchable".
And he loves to show off: see the press conference on Luna. He's made a
name for himself, and doesn't like being upstaged.
For what it's worth, BTW, my immediate assumption upon reading tLR the
first time was that the walking-though-walls was done with a holo. Not only
did Moran carefully introduce the necessary equipment previously, but
the scene isn't described in anything like the amount of detail that
Trent's other exploits are. Compare it with his escape through the floor
of his hospital room, the careful preparation he made for his escape
through the accelerator, and so forth. I had originally thought that Trent
had controlled it, but it makes more sense for it to have been Ralf, as
others here have pointed out.
As for the glowpaint being turned up in the final scene: I think this
has less to do with whether DKM's holos work better in bright or dim
light, and more to do with the fact that the projectors were originally
described as glowing visibly in the dimly lit room earlier in the book.
The light from the glowpaint might have swamped any stray emissions from
the projectors, even from Elite eyes.
All of the above is, of course, my opinion.
Wim.
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (mike rosenberg)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Walking through walls
--------
well moran says that the wall was solid.
so either trent walked through
the wall or ralf animated trent walking through the
wall (that is, trent was never in the room and everyone
saw a holo of trent walking through the wall; note that
in the scene, trent does not speak).
i think trent walked through the wall.
mike
by the way, is there any hope at all that moran is at least
getting copies of the traffic in this list?
****************
*** 04-30-94 ***
****************
From: david silberstein <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Walking through walls
--------
Most of the theories about this scene seem to revolve around Ralf (or
perhaps Trent himself) hacking the holoprojectors to show an image of
himself walking through the wall. Just to bring up the question:
Wouldn't people familiar with holograms (such as all the Peaceforcers Elite
present in the room) be able to tell the difference between a hologram
and a real image? Perhaps that's what gave the story such force - they
*knew* that what they were seeing had not been faked. As for why Vance
in the future gives fakery as the explanation he has worked out for
himself - remember, he injured himself severely shortly before he sees
the extraordinary event. Perhaps this, combined with the fact that so
much time has passed, is what allows him, of all who were present, to
come to this conclusion.
Just a theory, o'course.
Now, as to what *really* happened - Here's another theory:
We know that there are time travelers who are very interested in the fate
of the Castanaveras family. Perhaps it was such a one who set up the whole
thing, using technology sufficiently advanced as to resemble magic.
Come to think of it, maybe *Trent* learns to travel in time! Pulling
that stunt off is something he would have to do anyway, and I'm sure
he'd enjoy it immensely.
--David
"No, wait! Maybe he had a secret accomplice... :-)
****************
*** 05-13-94 ***
****************
From: david silberstein <
[email protected]>
To: "d. k. moran list" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Silly Nitpicking
--------
Does anyone else's copy of "The Last Dancer" have a typo, where it says
"Yu:nited Er<ps> Intelijens"? Obviously, its supposed to be a theta,
not a psi. So who messed up? (pg 286)
Can anyone place "The King of Corona"? It sounds familiar.I doubt that its
any connection to Neil Corona - it takes place about two hundred
years after his time (I may be reading too much into the brief story
which mentions him)(pg374)
Why didn't Tommy Ho/Richard Yo have his legs regenned - when he had
30 years to do it?
Is the power of the House of November the ability to step outside oneself
and manipulate others' minds/memory(as opposed to simple telepathy)?
Is Daniel a relation of Denice? (If he's her son - why is he in Public
Labor)?
When does Denice marry Douglas Ripper?
--David
****************
*** 05-13-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Silly Nitpicking
--------
>Does anyone else's copy of "The Last Dancer" have a typo, where it says
>"Yu:nited Er<ps> Intelijens"? Obviously, its supposed to be a theta,
>not a psi. So who messed up? (pg 286)
I hadn't noticed. I don't read greek :). I figured what it was supposed
to sound like, and just mentally corrected it. (Doncha just love SECDED?)
>Can anyone place "The King of Corona"? It sounds familiar.I doubt that its
>any connection to Neil Corona - it takes place about two hundred
>years after his time (I may be reading too much into the brief story
>which mentions him)(pg374)
You may not be reading too much into him. Corona was a *legend* at
one point, and he went back to Earth. It's quite possible that he
participates in the upcoming revolution, and survives. And since
interstellar travel is coming up soon, maybe, shomehow, he or a descendant
gets a regency. (I wouldn't expect it of him, to be honest, given that
he seems to be a rather loyal American.)
>Why didn't Tommy Ho/Richard Yo have his legs regenned - when he had
>30 years to do it?
Not in his belief system?
>Is the power of the House of November the ability to step outside oneself
>and manipulate others' minds/memory(as opposed to simple telepathy)?
I don't think so. What Denice does seems to be similar to what Carl had
done at times, although not as powerful. But she believes herself to be
more powerful than Carl was, and Carl was the most powerful telepath.
Maybe the Novembers don't find themselves trying to merge into a group
mind, the way the Castanaveras did.
>Is Daniel a relation of Denice? (If he's her son - why is he in Public
>Labor)?
Daniel is Denice's son. As to why he's in Public Labor -- who knows?
Maybe they get seperated, or maybe Denice dies in the revolution or the
War Against the Sleem shortly thereafter.
>When does Denice marry Douglas Ripper?
Sometime before Daniel is born, I guess :). My guess would actually be
either just before or after Denice and Douglas team up with Trent
("The Telepath, the Politician, and the Thief").
Sean.
****************
*** 05-17-94 ***
****************
From: "r. mccauley" <
[email protected]>
To: continuing time mailing list <
[email protected]>
Subject: Screenplay Info
--------
Forgive me if this has been asked recently; I just joined the list
a couple of weeks ago.
Someone sent me a copy of the text file Moran wrote that includes the
time line (thanks Erich!) and in it, Moran mentions that he is
circulating a screenplay for *The Long Run* around Hollywood. He goes
on to say that the screenplay is available for $80 ($40 of which goes
to charity - either Rebuild L.A. or AIDS Project L.A., and the other
$40 covers copying, handling and mailing costs) from his Van Nuys
P.O. Box.
My questions are:
* Is this offer still valid?
* Is the P.O. Box address still good?
* Has anyone else gotten a copy? How was it?
* Does anyone have a more current e-address for Moran than
the
[email protected] address?
I'm really eager to get a copy of this screenplay. *The Ring* was
just an adapted screenplay, and I liked it almost as much as his
Continuing Time stuff. If anyone can help me this (and if it isn't
terribly old news) I'll report back on the screenplay.
Thanx!
R. McCauley
****************
*** 05-18-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: while I was in the bookstore today
--------
someone called and started asking about DKM books. The owner
mentioned that the publisher seems to *never* reprint out-of-print
books (something I hadn't known, so it seems grim :(). On my advice,
she told the guy to try calling Dark Carnival in Berkeley to get
a copy of _The Ring_.
She doesn't know when his next book may be coming out, though :(.
Sean.
****************
*** 05-18-94 ***
****************
From: joshua kronengold <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: while I was in the bookstore today
--------
Talked to a contact at Bantam-Spectra (an editor). She says that they
are considering reprinting the early books, contingent on the sales of
the new one that going to be printed "soon." Quoted the chances at
about 50-50.
So it isn't as bleak as all that, especially if everyone buys
the new one.
---
Joshua Kronengold --
[email protected]
Sig file unde
****************
*** 05-18-94 ***
****************
From: andrew mccoll <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], joshua kronengold <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: while I was in the bookstore today
--------
On Wed, 18 May 1994, Joshua Kronengold wrote:
> Talked to a contact at Bantam-Spectra (an editor). She says that they
> are considering reprinting the early books, contingent on the sales of
> the new one that going to be printed "soon." Quoted the chances at
> about 50-50.
How bout an address for this editor we could arrange a mail in. American
companies are supposed to be very concerned about consumer pressure.
Skippy
PS an email address would be even better :>
[email protected]
University of Western Australia "That which does not kill us
Perth, Western Australia Must have missed."
****************
*** 05-18-94 ***
****************
From: joshua kronengold <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: while I was in the bookstore today
--------
Don't know if she'd like that, but I'll talk to her (don't know if
she's on the net; know here through a BBS).
---
Joshua Kronengold --
[email protected]
Sig file unde
****************
*** 06-01-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: From the beginning of _The Armageddon Blues_
--------
What follows is not accurate.
It is not truth.
It is ... elegant.
Compare that with Storyteller's assertion that Truth is for Historians
(and note that we do have a Name Historian [whatever *that* means], and
Trent talks to him), and that his lot is better, for he is a Storyteller.
Coincidence?
Sean.
****************
*** 06-02-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: _The Armageddon Blues_
--------
I just finished rereading it. Probably the fifth or sixth time I've
done so.
Wow.
Damn it, Moran is *GOOD*.
Sean.
****************
*** 06-02-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Georges Mordeaux and the Envoy
--------
Georges is described as the Enemy of Entropy. The Zaradin are Chaos, and
on the entropy side of the Great Wheel of Existance. The Chained One
(aka the Envoy) is on the opposite side.
Is Georges another Envoy? Will he figure in the unchaining of the Chained
One?
(Okay, so it's not really related to the Continuing Time... :))
Sean.
****************
*** 06-14-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (mike fitz)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Emerald Eyes and The Long Run
--------
I went looking for The Armageddon Blues this weekend and came away with
copies of Emerald Eyes and The Long Run (both of which I already have). I'm
offering them to anyone who wants them. I would prefer to trade for The
Armageddon Blues. E-Mail me if you're interested.
Mike
****************
*** 06-14-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (paul dubois)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Emerald Eyes and The Long Run
--------
Curiously enough, I went browsing the used-books section this weekend and
noticed a copy of The Long Run at Black Oak Books in Berkeley (Shattuck
and... Vine?). Apologies for the wide distribution :)
>>>>> Mike Fitz writes:
> I went looking for The Armageddon Blues this weekend and came away with
> copies of Emerald Eyes and The Long Run.
****************
*** 06-17-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (maureen s. obrien)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Moran's preoccupations
Reply-To:
[email protected]
--------
Have you noticed that Moran consistently fixes on certain
features for metaphors and accessories in his stories?
1) Eyes. In AB, the ken Selvren's silver eyes can detect radia-
tion, see smaller segments of time, and expand their pupils
immensely in size (& maybe see IR, but I was never sure). In
the Continuing Time, there are the green eyes of the Castana-
veras telepaths (EE, of course) which can see IR, the slitted
cat's eyes of the de Nostri, no-pupil black Kabhyr eyes, con-
tacts and makeup keys to change eye color, Trent's tragically
normal blue eyes, and even the Orbital Eyes of the DoD in the
past in EE. Somebody likes eyes.
2) The long run. Of course, there's Trent's, and the many Long
Runs, including the last one, organized by the Speedfreaks.
But in AB, on p.14, Jalian "turned & began the long run back
to the Clan House" to report a building on the Big Road, & on
p. 45, she "slowly, falteringly, began the long run that
would take her to its end." (The -entropy timeline, that is.)
Moran also is interested in the French, music, hackers\nets\AIs,
and nukes...and probably a few things I haven't noticed yet.
What do you think it all means, she said, trying to sound like
an English teacher.
--
Maureen S. O'Brien
[email protected]
Marta Fitzgerald and Rush Limbaugh ---
She flamed her way into his heart!
****************
*** 06-28-94 ***
****************
From: david silberstein <
[email protected]>
To: "d. k. moran list" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Corona, King of
--------
Just thought I'd mention that I found the reference I was looking for a
while back. The words "King of Corona" kept running through my head to
tune of a song fragment. I finally found l book of lyrics by Paul Simon,
and there it was, part of the song "Me and Julio down by the Schoolyard":
"...goodbye Rosie, the Queen of Corona...". Anyone know what that means?
The only other reference to 'Corona' as a proper name was in a SF story
of the same name by Samuel Delany.
--
David S.
****************
*** 06-28-94 ***
****************
From: david silberstein <
[email protected]>
To: "d. k. moran list" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Corona, King of
--------
Just thought I'd mention that I found the reference I was looking for a
while back. The words "King of Corona" kept running through my head to
tune of a song fragment. I finally found l book of lyrics by Paul Simon,
and there it was, part of the song "Me and Julio down by the Schoolyard":
"...goodbye Rosie, the Queen of Corona...". Anyone know what that means?
The only other reference to 'Corona' as a proper name was in a SF story
of the same name by Samuel Delany.
--
David S.
****************
*** 06-30-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: I just finished _The Long Run_ again
--------
Damn, DKM can write well.
Okay, does anybody have bantam's phone number? I wanna call and see if
I can find out when another book is coming out.
Sean.
****************
*** 07-07-94 ***
****************
From: kestrel <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (continuing time mailing list)
Subject: Detailed Timeline
--------
I am interested in where I can obtain a detailed timeline covering
the events in Emerald Eyes, The Long Run, and The Last Dancer (only the
parts dealing with 'modern' times - not parts in the far past or
future). If anyone could tell me where I could obtain such a document,
I would be grateful.
Casey McGirt
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
|
[email protected] | "I did the math, Vance. It works." |
|Casey McGirt | -Trent |
|AKA Kestrel | |
------------------------------------------------------------------
****************
*** 07-07-94 ***
****************
From: michael burrage <
[email protected]>
To: kestrel <
[email protected]>, dkm mailing list <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Detailed Timeline
--------
On Wed, 6 Jul 1994, Kestrel wrote:
> I am interested in where I can obtain a detailed timeline covering
> the events in Emerald Eyes, The Long Run, and The Last Dancer (only the
> parts dealing with 'modern' times - not parts in the far past or
> future). If anyone could tell me where I could obtain such a document,
> I would be grateful.=20
> =09=09=09=09Casey McGirt=20
=09I posted this a while back, and since then have heard that I got=20
Trents birthday wrong, but have not yet had a chance to check it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Here is a timeline of the events in Emerald Eyes, and the Long Run:
=09I also have compiled descriptions of some items from the book as=20
a first step to using them in a role-playing game. I have not yet had=20
the time to go back through the Last Dancer and update the timeline. =20
Lastly I did a sort of family tree for `project superman'.
THE CONTINUING TIME:
the fall of the Americain Empire
2011 RING is programed.
2014 Sarah Almundsen (1969-2023ish) becomes Secretary General of the
United Nations. With French and Chinese support she assumed control of the
orbital laser weaponry, formed the United Nations Peace Keeping Force
(PKF), and declared the United Nations, under her "Charter of Principles,"
the sole legal government of Earth. China and France both signed on,
followed by Brazil, and by the end of the year two thirds of the world
acknowledged United Nations rule. Three notable exceptions were the United
States, the Soviet Union, and Japan.
The Soviet Union is 'carved up' with orbital lasers and tactical nukes.
Japan is subjugated with a full scale nuclear strike.
2016 The Unification War reaches America.
2018 (summer) the Treaty of New York
2019 Spacebase One "Peaceforcer Heaven" is constructed by a consortium of
SpaceFarer Companies known as the L-5 Development Co.
2024 Suzanne Montignet graduates from the College of the Camden
Protectorate with high honors in genetics.
2025 The PKF assumes control of, and expands Spacebase One. The
SpaceFarer's Collective maintains its independence of the United Nations.
2030 (sep. 18) Carl Castanaveras is born. He is the first success of
'project superman' under Suzanne Montignet and Malko Kalharri. This
success was engineered by a time traveling descendant of his. Carl was
mentally unstable.
2035 (apr. 18) Jane McConnell born (using clone technique)
2036 (late) Johann MacArther brought to term
2037-42 Six more "genies" brought to term. The 'project superman' genies
are slightly stronger, have a greater endurance, abnormal speed, infrared
reception, faster reflexes, and are genetically perfect. The de=FFNostri
genies (human-cougar hybrids) are much stronger humanoid cats.
2040 Darryl Amnier becomes Prosecutor General to the Unification Council.
2042 Carl hits puberty, and becomes a telepath. He let Unification
Councillor Jerril Carson know. By '45 Carl has put a scare into Carson
(who by then was the Chairman of the Unification Council to supervise the
Bureau of Biotechnology Research) who caused the death of Shana de Nostri.
2046 Spacebase one begins processing PKF Elite at a rate of approximately
fifty candidates every six months.
2047 (early) Jane hits puberty, she has the gift too.
2048 Carson becomes chairman of the Peace Keeping Force Oversight
Committee in the Unification Council. Suzanne Montignet is removed as head
of "Project Superman." The first Official Secrets Act is passed. Forty-
three Castanaveras children are brought to term.
2049 Seventy-three Castanaveras children brought to term.
The colony on Ganymede is destroyed.
2050 Eighty-six Castanaveras children are brought to term.
2051 Twenty-five Castanaveras children are brought to term. Among them is
Trent, born May 9. The assembly-line program to produce telepaths for the
Peaceforcers is terminated.
2052 Amnier becomes Secretary General of the United Nations.
2053 Twins, David and Denice Castanaveras, are born to Carl and Jane.
2054 The second Official Secrets Act is passed.
2060 Spacebase One is again expanded by the PKF.
2062 EMERALD EYES: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
March 8 Eighth Amendment to the Statement of Principles is passed, it
frees the genies (telepaths and de Nostri)
March 9 Carl audits Gerold McKann's story on the Genie Bill. Peace
Keeping Staff Sergeant Emile Garon begins to go after Trent a.k.a. Ralf
the Wise and Powerful. Carl and the telepath elders meet with private
corporations (Belinda Singer, Tio Sandoval, Marc Packard, Randall Getty
Cristofer, and Francis Xavier Chandler) to discuss employment. The
telepaths could read minds, look inside closed objects or behind closed
doors, find oil with 100% confidence in little time, manipulate small
objects from dice to subatomic particles. Assuming a knowledge of
physics one could induce hydrogen to fuse.
March 10 Carl buys a Chandler MetalSmith Mark III.
May-June The Unification Council continues to harass the telepaths. Carl
meets with F. X. Chandler. Trent is not a Telepath, but he is possibly
the best player, his image is Ralf. Trent goes to live with Suzanne.
June 15 Emile Garon leaves Earth to become a PKF Elite.
June 22 McKann interviews Carl a second time.
June 23 McKann is killed by Peaceforcers in an attempt to frame Carl.
Althea dies of a snakebite while in the employ of Sandoval.
June 27 Carl, Jacqueline de Nostri, and ex-PKF Elite Chris Summers move on
Sandoval, get him to confess to killing Althea at Councillor Carson's
request.
Assassination attempt on Carl and Malko. Success prevented by Carl's time
traveling descendant Chauki November.
July 3 The twins are kidnapped by Carson. Malko is killed as Trent and
Suzanne are arrested. Suzanne kills herself while in PKF custody.
Crowds storm the Chandler Complex and many are killed before the stun
field comes on-line. Telepath children repel Peaceforcers with their
lives. RING frees Trent. Carl goes after Carson. PKF Elite Sergeant
Mohammed Vance orders a tactical nuclear strike on the Chandler Complex.
As their dying act the telepaths destroy the minds of a quarter of the
population of the state of New York. Carl kills Carson as he dies from a
wound inflicted by Carson, David and Denice kill Carson's Peaceforcers
and escape. An Elite dies as Trent escapes.
Secretary General Darryl Amnier commits suicide.
The Peaceforcers consolidate patrols to the area around Capitol City and
Manhattan. This leaves the rest of the city to the underfunded and
underequipped American Police allowing it to degenerate into the fringes,
hiding Trent.
2063 Charles Eddore becomes Secretary General. The Unification Council
outlaws manually operated vehicles. The speedfreaks hold a protest long
run and are slaughtered by a storm over the Atlantic, the survivors are
executed for treason. Emile Garon returns, a PKF Elite, in September.
2064 The Fizzle War, Eddore has Space Force shoot down a SpaceFarer
flagship over Free Luna, then backed down from full scale war. The full-
blown Gift of the House of November unfolds in Denice Castanaveras.
2060's Over the decade SpaceFarer technology becomes more common,
monofilament fineline and room temperature superconductor become everyday
reality, and over half a million people become juice junkies.
2068 (December) Trent and company leave the fringes for the patrol
sectors.
2069 THE LONG RUN: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
January Trent, Jamos "Jimmy" Ramirez, Jodi Jodi, and bird set themselves
up at Kandel Microelectrics Sales and Repair Shop.
April 30 During an attempted boost of CallyTronics Trent bumps into Denice
just before being arrested. Emile Garon is there. He is later released
by the gendarmes, and finds out that Police Chief of New York City,
Maxwell Devlin, is a Johnny Reb.
Summer the Tau-Ceti probe sends back images of two Earth-like planets and
a large orbital facility. see pages 66-69
August 8 Three Peaceforcers led by PKF Elite Emile Garon arrest Trent on
various charges. They hold him for four days, and question his identity.
August 13 Very early in the morning Denice and Jimmy break Trent out of
holding, beginning the Long Run.
2088 Processing of PKF Elite is moved to Spacebase fourteen at Saturn.
2094 F. X. Chandler dies.
2103 Spacebase One is destroyed in the Peaceforcer Rebellion.
3018 Alternities Press, CU:110.00 Zaradin, publishes the Name Historian's
Looking Backwards From the Year 3000.
ITEMS and OTHER THINGS:
Chandler MetalSmith Mark III Emerald Eyes page 91
hovercar (10-40 cm above ground) circa 2060's
outer skin may change color as owner desires
canopy, hinge forward
soft brown leather interior
seats 4 (6 if friendly)
top speed 440 kph (with six seventy kilo occupants)
six fans underneath for ground effect
row of three rear turbojets for flight
retractable wings (skips at 180 w/wings, 220 w/o)
airscoop and rocket brakes
airscoop fed ramjets for flight
stabilize with wings and fans
driver optional gyroscope system (hard to flip over)
carcomp w/ infochip and 260-page printed manual
class C autopilot
Excalibur Series Two Emerald Eyes page 147
dual frequency short laser rifle circa 2053
Maser - semicoherent beam for close-up antipersonnel work.
It can fry a small roomful of people almost as fast as a with a true
flamethrower, and it is much more portable. Against delicate
electronics or flesh, or any object with a reasonable degree of water
in its makeup, it was as lethal as an auto shot--and lasted longer in
an all-out firefight. Against waldos the maser is less efficient.
X-laser - true coherent laser, emitting a continuous, invisible beam of X
rays. Almost nothing can halt the X-laser; the beam slices through
metal and flesh, stone and water, with equal efficiency.
PKF Elite Emerald Eyes pages 138,205
Cyborg. The Long Run page 22
While the subject is still young, under thirty-five, he is taken to
Spacebase One at L-5, Peaceforcer Heaven where the Peaceforcers Elite
were created. Surgery that was impossible under the crushing 9.80 meters
per second squared acceleration of Earth was just barely feasible when
performed in the free fall of L-5. Peaceforcer gengineers and surgeons
had taken him and changed him; injected him with transform viruses
designed to strengthen his muscles, to speed his neural reactions by
better than forty percent. Changed by the transform viruses, doubly
changed by surgery and cyborging; his eyes (which can sample at over a
thousand times a second) were not real, nor his skin. He would see in
infrared and ultraviolet as easily as a normal human distinguished
between blue and green. Beneath his right shoulder blade was a power
source good for six months. A secondary nerve network laced itself
through the first, fused itself to that which a human was born with; the
network and all of the Elite hardware it controlled was controlled in
turn by a combat computer implanted at the base of his skull. Carbon-
ceramic filaments wound themselves through and around his muscles,
joints, and ligaments, reinforcing the bones; this, the direct work of
the transform viruses, enabled the Elite to withstand acceleration that
would have quickly killed any normal human. Threads of room-temperature
superconductor were woven into his skin; he would barely notice most
lasers. His skin would turn a knife, and his hair would not burn. There
was a multifrequency radio in his head, and he had a laser built into his
right forearm. He weighs in the neighborhood of 200 kg. Some also
have an inskin at their left temple.
Trent's place The Long Run pages 21,43-50
Suzanne Malko
Montignet - + - Kalharri
|
'Project Superman'
|
+----------+-----+----------+----------+--------+
| | | | |
|'30 |'35 |'36 |'37-'42 |-'48 (43)
Carl Jane Johann Six more |-'49 (73)
Castanaveras -+- McConnell MacArther Genies |-'50 (86)
| |-'51 (24+)
+------------+-+ |
|'53 |'53 '30 Trent
David Denice Douglass Castanaveras
Castanaveras Castanaveras -+- Ripper, Jr.
|
+------------+
|
_____ _____
Ripper -+- November
|
+------+
|
Daniel
November
|
|3000
Chauki Chamber
November Tremodian
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Michael J. Burrage
(
[email protected])
(
[email protected]) _____..---=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+*+=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D---.._____
______________________ __,-=3D'=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D____ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _____=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D`=3D
(._____________________I__) - _-=3D_/ `---------=3D+=3D--------'
/ /__...---=3D=3D=3D=3D'---+---_'
`------`---.___ - _ =3D _.-'
`--------'
****************
*** 07-07-94 ***
****************
From: james millar <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (dkm mailinglist),
[email protected] (kestrel)
Subject: Re: Detailed Timeline
--------
>
> I am interested in where I can obtain a detailed timeline covering
> the events in Emerald Eyes, The Long Run, and The Last Dancer (only the
> parts dealing with 'modern' times - not parts in the far past or
> future). If anyone could tell me where I could obtain such a document,
> I would be grateful.
> Casey McGirt
Speaking of such things, upon re-reading tLD I noticed that at the end
in 'About the Author' Ameggedon Blues is described as a continuing time
novel. I haven't read it, could something please tell me if the link is
real, or tenuous (eg that funny little circle at the back of tLD).
ta
- James.
****************
*** 07-08-94 ***
****************
From: kestrel <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (continuing time mailing list)
Subject: Personal Protection Systems
--------
First off, I'd like to thank those that sent the timelines and
other info. I've merged the Emerald Eyes/The Long Run timeline I was
given with the one I had been working on, and it's turned out pretty
good. The list of items and other stuff was also interesting, and I
added a couple to the list (Hunting Waldo - needs a description and
armament, though; Tytan NN-II AI Nerve Net).
Now, on to the question of the day. I recently went over the
section in TLR that refers to Master Timothy's Personal Protection
System. It gives a very rough description, and I was wondering if
anyone had any theories on what a PPS actually it, either their own
views, or perhaps even from DKM himself?
Finally, I've been piecing together the necessary components for a
RPG game set in the Emerald Eyes era of the Continuing Time, and was
wondering if any special permission is necessary to run the game as an
event in a convention? I know that Bantam has the rights, but do
copyright laws apply in this case, particularly since I'm just using
background, rather than quoting material, etc.
Well, that's about it. I may be running over old threads, here,
but they're all new to me, so ANY discussion would be interesting to
read, and I await your replies.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
|
[email protected] | "I did the math, Vance. It works." |
|Casey McGirt | -Trent, 'The Long Run' |
|AKA Kestrel | |
------------------------------------------------------------------
****************
*** 07-15-94 ***
****************
From: "john r. snead" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Upcoming Books?
--------
Hi all-
Well, it was stated both in a faq I got off this list shortly after TLD
came out, and at the end of TLD there should be -3- new CT novels out
this fall, Lord November: The Man Spacething War, and two new Trent novels.
So, does anyone know if this is still accurate, and if so, when and in
what order this (much to be hoped for) cornocopia of CT stuff will show
up. Also, anyone know if it will be hardcover or paperback?
-Heron
[email protected]
"We are born broken; life is healing"
-DKM
****************
*** 07-15-94 ***
****************
From: "steven miale" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: FAQs and archives
--------
Where are they kept (if there are any)?
Thanks,
Steve
****************
*** 07-16-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: great quote from _The Last Dancer_
--------
"Some of the equations get -- silly."
-- Holtzman, page 73
Sean.
****************
*** 07-17-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: another interesting bit from tLD
--------
Had [Dvan] received the full instruction of a Keeper, or a Dancer, he might
have indeed learned something [from watching the spacelace tunnels], as the
Zaradin had learned, three and a half billion years prior.
-- Storyteller, page 280
Hm. A bit tantalizing, isn't it? :)
Sean.
****************
*** 07-18-94 ***
****************
From: mike long <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: another interesting bit from tLD
Reply-To: Mike Long <
[email protected]>
Organization: Analog Devices Inc, Norwood MA, USA
--------
>Date: Sat, 16 Jul 1994 18:13:56 -0700
>From: Sean Eric Fagan <
[email protected]>
>
>Had [Dvan] received the full instruction of a Keeper, or a Dancer, he might
>have indeed learned something [from watching the spacelace tunnels], as the
>Zaradin had learned, three and a half billion years prior.
>
> -- Storyteller, page 280
>
>Hm. A bit tantalizing, isn't it? :)
>
>Sean.
If you can, get a 2/84 Asimov's and read "The Gray Maelstrom". The
main character in that story definitely learned something from being
thrust into the universe of gray spheres & lines that contains the
spacelace tunnels. A tantalizing story in itself, more so when
combined with the quote above.
--
Mike Long
[email protected]
VLSI Design Engineer (PGP 2.6 public key available)
Analog Devices, CPD Division
Norwood, MA 02062 USA assert(*this!=opinionof(Analog));
****************
*** 07-18-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], mike long <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: another interesting bit from tLD
--------
On Mon, 18 Jul 1994, Mike Long wrote:
> If you can, get a 2/84 Asimov's and read "The Gray Maelstrom". The
> main character in that story definitely learned something from being
> thrust into the universe of gray spheres & lines that contains the
> spacelace tunnels. A tantalizing story in itself, more so when
> combined with the quote above.
> --
> Mike Long
[email protected]
> VLSI Design Engineer (PGP 2.6 public key available)
> Analog Devices, CPD Division
> Norwood, MA 02062 USA assert(*this!=opinionof(Analog));
This is probably a FAQ but is there an index of DKM stories published in
magazines?
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 07-18-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (dann cutter)
To:
[email protected], mike long <
[email protected]>, "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
Subject: RE: another interesting bit from tLD
--------
>This is probably a FAQ but is there an index of DKM stories published in
>magazines?
this is what DKM told me about two years ago...
" Published stuff -- three short stories in Asimov's, the four novels,
the ffifth novel coming, one short story ("Given the Game") in the
December 91 issue of Aboriginal SF. That's it.
Hope this helps."
_______________________________________________________________
Dann Cutter Stellar Enterprises=81 /
[email protected]
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: "glowpaint"
--------
On "Beyond 2000" right now, there is a little segment about a type of
paint that generates heat when electricity is passed through it.
("exothermic paint," real original :).)
I guess glowpaint isn't as wild a thought as I'd originally thought.
Sean.
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
--------
I just got off the phone with Bantam's publicity department.
There are NO books on their schedule to be published by Daniel Keys Moran
through the end of '94. She suggested I try again closer to the spring.
I am devestated! This just *ISN'T FAIR*!
:(
Sean.
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: "mike rosenberg" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
--------
is there some way we can get some kind of word to or
from dkm to find out what's going on?
mike
On Jul 19, 2:52pm, Sean Eric Fagan wrote:
> Subject: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
> I just got off the phone with Bantam's publicity department.
>
> There are NO books on their schedule to be published by Daniel Keys Moran
> through the end of '94. She suggested I try again closer to the spring.
>
> I am devestated! This just *ISN'T FAIR*!
>
> :(
>
> Sean.
>-- End of excerpt from Sean Eric Fagan
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: steven miale <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
--------
> I just got off the phone with Bantam's publicity department.
>
> There are NO books on their schedule to be published by Daniel Keys Moran
> through the end of '94. She suggested I try again closer to the spring.
I'm getting tired of this Bantam cr*p. They won't reprint any of his older
books and don't seem to like printing his new ones. Who do we call and/or
write?
Steve
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
--------
>I'm getting tired of this Bantam cr*p. They won't reprint any of his older
>books and don't seem to like printing his new ones. Who do we call and/or
>write?
You seem to be under the assumption that they *have* his books to print (new
ones, that is). They may not. I did not ask that, since I did not expect
the publicity department to know. I would love to talk to his editors, but
I don't know who they are or how I would find out.
DKM lives in SoCal. There is a Daniel Moran listed for Los Angeles, but
that is not him (I just called, I hate doing that :(). I sent a letter to
him a while back, c/o Bantam, but never got a response (I'd even included a
SASE).
Someone could try calling Bantam and trying to find out who DKM's editor(s)
is/are, and finding out what the story is. Or trying to find out his number
in SoCal. (He is, according to tLD, living with his sisters. Who might or
might not be married.)
*sigh*
This really has ruined my entire day.
Sean.
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
--------
Arg, I meant to give Bantam's number:
Bantam Books (212) 354 6500
That's in New York City. You have to ask for Bantam <whatever>, since it
serves for several different publishers.
Sean.
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: kestrel <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (continuing time mailing list)
Subject: Writing Bantam
--------
Does Bantam have a representative on the Internet, or an address to
email? I think we could throw enough mail at them to make them consider
releasing DKM's stuff...
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
|
[email protected] | "I did the math, Vance. It works." |
|Casey McGirt | -Trent, 'The Long Run' |
|AKA Kestrel | |
------------------------------------------------------------------
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: joshua kronengold <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected],
[email protected]
Subject: Re: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
--------
Hey, look; the guy write's pretty slow; he's allways done so.
And, after all, he just moved.
---
Joshua Kronengold --
[email protected]
Sig file unde
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: joshua kronengold <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected],
[email protected]
Subject: Re: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
--------
Actually, he lives in NYC, now.
---
Joshua Kronengold --
[email protected]
Sig file unde
****************
*** 07-20-94 ***
****************
From: "john r. snead" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
--------
Damn, and I -just- reread _TLR_ in preparation for the release of the new
books. It sounded like they were already written from the tone of the
notice in the back of tLD. In fact, given that there were _3_ novels
coming out soon I'd be almost certain that at least one of them was
already written (after all, 3 novels in one year is a bit much to
expect). Perhaps they are just delayed, the notice said early fall,
perhaps January? If anyone can find out if said books are actually
written or not we will have much more info to go one.
Annoyed but still hopeful-
-Heron
[email protected]
****************
*** 07-21-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (mike fitz)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: no forthcoming DKM books *waaaah*
--------
>Damn, and I -just- reread _TLR_ in preparation for the release of the new
>books. It sounded like they were already written from the tone of the
>notice in the back of tLD. In fact, given that there were _3_ novels
>coming out soon I'd be almost certain that at least one of them was
>already written (after all, 3 novels in one year is a bit much to
>expect). Perhaps they are just delayed, the notice said early fall,
>perhaps January? If anyone can find out if said books are actually
>written or not we will have much more info to go one.
>
When DKM posted a CT timeline almost two years ago he said that they
(Bantam) wanted to have the next book written and in hand before they would
publish tLD. I forget now (the post is at home) which book it was he had
written. Either Man Spacething War or the first AI War book. If this is
true, then it seems like Bantam may have two of his books in hand, since I'm
sure he's been writing for the past 2 years. I have no idea why they
haven't published them. DKM also 'promised' that there would never be
another delay as long as the one between tLR and tLD.
Mike
****************
*** 07-22-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected]
Subject: DKM stories
--------
>This is probably a FAQ but is there an index of DKM stories published in
>magazines?
We don't have a FAQ list yet, and there's so little traffic that any
reasonable questions are welcome. I'm not sure this one's ever been
asked before, but there is an answer . . . . (note that "I" below is
me, Sol)
"All the Time in the World", Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction
Magazine (IAsfm), May 1982.
This is an early version of the first section of AB, with an
added bit in the far future.
"The Gray Maelstrom", IAsfm, February 1983.
Not sure exactly how this connects to CT. I didn't find it
particularly memorable. [Mike says "It gives some more detail
on what the Flame people know as the spacelace tunnels; in fact,
the description of the lines and spheres in LD looks like it was
cut-and-pasted from this story."]
"Realtime", IAsfm, August 1984. (Cowritten with Gladys Prebehalla.)
This is a sequel of sorts to AB. The main charcter is a
Praxcelis, and many of the cyberpunk terms and ideas later to
show up in the Continuing Time appear here. At least one
mention of the Walks-Far Empire. I love this story. (See
reference near the top of the chart/map at the end of LD.)
plus the novels, which I think everyone know . . .
Armageddon Blues, 1988. (April 1988 according to the front of my
copy. This strikes me as wrong --- I think
I bought my copy for half price at a used
bookstore in April 1988.)
Indirectly related to the Continuing Time (again, see the
chart/map in LD), and an excellant book in its own right.
Emerald Eyes, 1988.
The Ring, 1988.
Based on a movie script by somebody or the other; that, in turn,
was loosely based on the Ring of the Nibelung. Very loosely
connected to AB; the tribe (Silvereyes?) from there shows up.
Published only in hardcover.
The Long Run, 1989.
The Last Dancer, 1993.
Plus Dann mentions a story in Aboriginal SF. Has anyone seen that?
(Next time I'm in A^2 I'll search the used bookstores.)
-Sol
****************
*** 07-22-94 ***
****************
From: jon leech <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: DKM stories
--------
> Armageddon Blues, 1988. (April 1988 according to the front of my
> copy. This strikes me as wrong --- I think
> I bought my copy for half price at a used
> bookstore in April 1988.)
> Indirectly related to the Continuing Time (again, see the
> chart/map in LD), and an excellant book in its own right.
Just what *is* the relation? Is the CT the alternate timeline that arose
in the aftermath of AB?
Jon
__@/
****************
*** 07-24-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Whee, I read stories today! SPOILERS HERE!
--------
I took the list that Solomon sent out to a library I finally found that had
enough back issues of IASFM. (Most of them around here only went back a
decade :(.)
I read "Gray Maelstrom," "All the Time in the World," and "Realtime."
GM is nice. DKM also apparantly likes that story about the djinn that de
Nostri remembers in _The Last Dancer_ 8-). It offers some... interesting
possibilities about the Serathin -- and makes me wonder, again, about
Storyteller's version of the creation of the universe. I'd wanted to read
this one because it dealt so much with the spacelace, hoping it gave some
insight into tLD. It did, but not much. (I *think* the patterns in the
spacelace are, in some way, indications about the real world. Or control it
in some fashion...) (And maybe this is where the Great Gods of the Zaradin
Church come from?)
AtTitW is *not* as good as _The Armageddon Blues_, except in one respect:
it gives an idea of what *happens* afterwards. tAB doesn't (I mean, we know
that The Big Crunch doesn't happen, and Georges becomes something *else*,
but what, and what happens to the world afterwards?). I got the feeling,
however, that the story was not really what he wanted to tell -- the
narrator described the sound of an atomic explosion in reverse, but how did
it know that? Also: DKM was 19 when he sold it to IASFM, and working as a
busboy.
"Realtime" is also interesting. It's apparantly set in the same timeline as
AtTitW, but something is not quite right. It was cowritten with someone
else, so that could explain it. I also have a problem with the Walks-Far
Empire -- maintaining an interstellar empire would be difficult enough, let
alone a cross-timeline empire... but it's mentioned only in passing, so may
not count :).
I have now read all but *one* story published by DKM. I am a happy camper.
Sean.
****************
*** 07-25-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Idle thoughts..:)
--------
This is pure sophistry...but hey I'm bored.
1)Denice could have been either a Dancer or a Night face, or a third
chice, the Godhood one.
2)Ergo David could have been either also because he was her exact twin.
3)Shiva Curiachen, a night face, conquered his own addiction to electric
ecstasy in 2309.
4)Ergo David should have been able to conquer his own addiction by
becoming a night face....so why didn't he?
"Il etait une fois un voleur et ce voleur etait Dieu."
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 07-25-94 ***
****************
From: "j.c. duval" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], rebecca leann smit crowley <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: david's addiction
--------
I did start my thesis by stating it was sophistry and therefore flawed.
It's interesting to compare Rebecca's arguments about the twins' respective
willingness to live and Denise's last speech to Sedon, saying to him: 'who
do you want to be?'. Sedon did not seem to be a lost case for Denice yet
he died while her brother was a lost case and died by her own hands. Thus
Sedon was worth saving as she tells McGee but the fate of her brother is
a foregone conclusion.
Why was Sedon worth saving and not her brother? I have my doubts about
Sedon's death, their last words do not indicate the events to come. Sedon
has feigned death before...and what happens to Dvan?
"Il etait une fois un voleur et ce voleur etait Dieu."
****************************************************************************
|J.C. DuVal | M.A. English | University of Montreal *Brand new sig!* |
|
[email protected] |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|In the forties, the Nazis were evil; |
|In the fifties, the commies were evil; |
|In the sixties, the establishment was evil; |
|In the seventies, disco was evil; |
|In the eigthies, the Soviet Empire was evil; |
|In the nineties, there are no more evils, only victims. |
|A society unable to recognize evils has deep problems. |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, |
|and the Data is Life.- The Player's Litany. |
****************************************************************************
****************
*** 07-25-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] ("rebecca leann smit crowley")
To: continuing-time%
[email protected]
Subject: david's addiction
--------
J.C. DuVal asks:
4)Ergo David should have been able to conquer his own addiction by
becoming a night face....so why didn't he?
Which is an interesting question. First off, David and Denice
aren't exact twins -- they differ by at least a chromosome, and there
be more to that X/Y thing than whether one is an innie or an
outie, so to speak; can you say "hormones".
In addition to this chromosonal disparity, their environments during
their formative years were also Not the Same.
But never mind all that. I contend that David lacked the will
to live, that in a more than Freudian sense he really wanted to die
(which is why Denice did what she did which is what David had
been trying to do for a long while but hadn't quite managed
yet on his own). Why? Why did Denice want to live and David
die?
Me, I think it's more interesting that Denice wanted to live -- I
think that's what needs explaining, and I, personally, think
the explanation consists of five letters: "Trent".
IMO, inevitably.
Rebecca Crowley
[email protected]
standard disclaimers apply
****************
*** 07-25-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: david's addiction
--------
>Why was Sedon worth saving and not her brother? I have my doubts about
>Sedon's death, their last words do not indicate the events to come. Sedon
>has feigned death before...and what happens to Dvan?
David would *never* have dropped the habit. With anyone else, Denice would
have been able to fix it so that he wouldn't want it anymore, but I think the
telepaths may not be susceptible to each other's manipulations like that.
We did not get to know david as well as we know Denice. For the Gift, we
did see one thing that surprised me: David seemed to do more when
confronted by Sedon than Denice did. (Has Denice ever started fire? We've
never seen it...)
Remember that Carl believed he would have been susceptible to becoming an
alcoholic, if he'd been exposed to it when much younger. And maybe that's
what it all boils down to: maybe David had become a wire addict before he
was old / strong enough to be able to fight it (possibly even before the
Gift manifested itself him him).
Denice Killed David because he *wanted* to die. He was ashamed of what he
had become, and ashamed that his sister saw it. His father's last words to
them were that they were *better* -- and he had not shown it. (Denice,
incidently, *had*. She was a Dancer, and probably a better Dancer than any
of the Flame people.)
Sean.
****************
*** 07-26-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Whee, I read stories today! SPOILERS HERE!
--------
Sean writes:
>AtTitW is *not* as good as _The Armageddon Blues_,
Well, right --- it is basically just a first draft of the first section.
It is a pretty damn good first published story. It's hardly DKM's fault
that he may be the only author ever to enlarge on a published story and
make it better.
>I got the feeling, however, that the story was not really what he wanted
>to tell -- the narrator described the sound of an atomic explosion in
>reverse, but how did it know that?
It doesn't. "The author is willing to concede that he could be wrong,
but adds that until such time as he is proven incorrect, he will
continue to hold this opinion." (The full quote is in my quote file!)
>"Realtime" is also interesting. It's apparantly set in the same
>timeline as AtTitW, but something is not quite right. It was cowritten
>with someone else, so that could explain it.
Well, the universe is very clearly DKM's. My guess is the co-author's
primary contribution was smoothing out DKM's prose. I still suspect
that Prebehalla is just a pseudonym for George Scithers; basically a way
of saying that he did a really serious editing job on the story. I'd
love to be proven wrong, especially if the proof consisted of a few
Prebehalla stories half as good as "Realtime".
>I also have a problem with the Walks-Far Empire -- maintaining an
>interstellar empire would be difficult enough, let alone a
>cross-timeline empire... but it's mentioned only in passing, so may not
>count :).
It's worth noting that there is a character named Walks-Far in _The
Armageddon Blues_ . . . .
>I have now read all but *one* story published by DKM. I am a happy
>camper.
I'd read all but one story back on the summer day the postman delivered
my copy of ISsfm with "Realtime". (I almost missed dinner because I was
so enthralled by that story, in fact.) Today I go hunting for that
Aboriginal story . . .
-Sol
****************
*** 07-28-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Other DKM story
--------
Okay, after finally getting a lead on a DKM story I haven't read, I went
out and traced down information on how to get it. (Source is the latest
issue of Aboriginal.)
Aboriginal Science Fiction No.24 Daniel Keys Moran
Send $4.00 plus $.50 postage and handling for each copy to:
Aboriginal Science Fiction
Full Sets
P.O. Box 2449
Woburn, MA 01888
Note that I have no connection with Aboriginal, and no idea if this
really works. I'm going to send in my order tomorrow, and I'd suggest
waiting for word from me for whether or not it works. I'll let everyone
know whatever happens.
-Sol
****************
*** 08-01-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Bad Mailing Addresses
--------
Sorry to bother everyone with this, but I'm getting overwhelmed by
bouncing mail these days, so I need to take steps. As soon as I've
sent this, I'm deleting the following people from the mailing list:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
All have had multiple bounces in the last week. If you know any of
these people, please ask them what's going on. (I don't want to lose
members, but I have to correct this problem.) If you _are_ one of
these, please let me know what is up.
Thanks!
Sol
****************
*** 08-09-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected]
Subject: DKM Story
--------
Well, this afternoon I got the issue of Aboriginal SF with the DKM story
in it. (So the address I posted here works, and fairly quickly at
that.) It's a fairly short story, four pages long in Aboriginal's big
page format. At a risk of rushing to a quick judgement, "Given the
Game" is a pretty minor story. Actually, it strikes me as a very
cliched story, with minor DKMish touches which don't really do a whole
lot for it. Not a bad story, but not one to get excited over.
It bears no apparent direct relationship to the Continuing Time books.
(I suppose it could fit in the Great Wheel of Existance, but what
couldn't?) A couple of minor things seem to touch on the CT:
"In the darkness near Tau Ceti, God heard their distance prayers,
the music of the water creatures. It listened to their exquisite
pain, to the tales they sang of death in the nets . . . "
(Actually, looking back, I'm not sure of why that reminds me of the
Continuing Time. Some strange path in my brain, no doubt. It wasn't
the Nightface aspect, which I'll mention in a second.)
And there is some talk of Players, capitalized, though frankly I don't
understand what this usage has to do with the usage in the Continuing
Time. Perhaps this is some sort of perversion, an echo elsewhere on the
Wheel.
Finally, there is the pervading atmosphere (and acceptance) of death,
which reminds me of what we know of Nightface philosophy.
-Sol
****************
*** 08-29-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: DKM stories
--------
Gack. I'm finding way too much sitting around on my harddrive for
a long time waiting to be answered. Anyway, better late than never . . .
Jon writes:
>> Armageddon Blues, 1988. (April 1988 according to the front of my
>> copy. This strikes me as wrong --- I think
>> I bought my copy for half price at a used
>> bookstore in April 1988.)
>> Indirectly related to the Continuing Time (again, see the
>> chart/map in LD), and an excellant book in its own right.
>
> Just what *is* the relation? Is the CT the alternate timeline that arose
>in the aftermath of AB?
No. The best bet for the aftermath of AB is the "Realtime" universe,
where Praxcelises (Praxceli?) and humans together fight the Walks-Far
Empire.
If you look at the map in the back of Last Dancer, you'll see that AB
and CT are both spots in the Great Wheel of Existence. That's the
primary connection, though background characters and concepts tend to
"leak through" the universes. (No doubt because they are near neighbors
on the Wheel. :-)
-Sol
****************
*** 08-29-94 ***
****************
From: jon leech <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], colomon
Subject: Re: DKM stories
--------
Sol writes:
> No. The best bet for the aftermath of AB is the "Realtime" universe,
> where Praxcelises (Praxceli?) and humans together fight the Walks-Far
> Empire.
I've gotta dig up the stories; I only have AB and the CT books. I think
what lead me down this direction were descriptions of the Unification War.
In particular, I was reading more similarities between the US orbital lasers
there and those in AB than I probably should have.
Jon
__@/
****************
*** 08-29-94 ***
****************
From: jon leech <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], colomon
Subject: Re: DKM stories
--------
Sol writes:
> No. The best bet for the aftermath of AB is the "Realtime" universe,
> where Praxcelises (Praxceli?) and humans together fight the Walks-Far
> Empire.
I've gotta dig up the stories; I only have AB and the CT books. I think
what lead me down this direction were descriptions of the Unification War.
In particular, I was reading more similarities between the US orbital lasers
there and those in AB than I probably should have.
Jon
__@/
****************
*** 08-29-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: DKM stories
--------
>In particular, I was reading more similarities between the US orbital lasers
>there and those in AB than I probably should have.
Well, since Loos Electronics (or whatever the company's name was) were
involved with both, I'm not surprised there's a similarity ;).
Sean.
****************
*** 08-29-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Subject: The 'Player' in 'God of Players'
--------
Perhaps a stupid question, but in what sense is the word 'player' used
here? Actor and athlete are hardly appropriate, I think...
One thought I'd had: earlier, in rasfw, I'd asked the question 'Why
did Camber want to prevent Denice and Dvan from meeting?'. According to
Storyteller, this meeting was a major victory, and a blow to Tremodian.
This makes sense given the chain of events that follows; if Denice
_hadn't_ met Dvan, she wouldn't have become a Dancer, would not have
survived Sedon (cf the GoP's speech to her in her cell), and thus would
not have lived to spawn the House of November. Without the House,
Storyteller would never come to be.
Am I taking that too far, or does it make sense?
Mike
****************
*** 08-29-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (rebecca a. drayer)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Next DKM Book
--------
Sorry if this question has been asked to death, but I just signed on again
to the list after my summer break Does anyone have any idea when DKM's
next book will be published? I looked at Tor's electronic newsletter, and
it didn't have any information.
---------------
Rebecca A. Drayer
Medical Student, Class of 1998
****************
*** 08-29-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: The 'Player' in 'God of Players'
--------
> Perhaps a stupid question, but in what sense is the word 'player' used
>here? Actor and athlete are hardly appropriate, I think...
Who knows? Although I tend to think that Camber is a Player in the sense
that the producer-guy from _The Player_ was a player. (If you haven't seen
the movie, he is hussles and gets movies put together, and makes quite a bit
of money that way. He plays *people*, against each other, against threats,
etc.) It is, however, quite a coincidence that Camber is a god of a word
that would translate as "Player" -- and a Player is someone with more than a
little bit of power in DKM's world. (And since it is such a large
coincidence, and it is fiction, I doubt very much that it *is* a
coincidence.)
> One thought I'd had: earlier, in rasfw, I'd asked the question 'Why
>did Camber want to prevent Denice and Dvan from meeting?'.
As I think I said there: because Denice's life is now different, in some
way. She's also managed to meet Camber -- even if only on the Crystal
Plane.
If Denice hadn't met Dvan, she wouldn't've been in the position she had been
anyway -- a position that was responsible for her meeting Camber. Perhaps
*that* was what Storyteller wanted to avoid.
Denice is very uncertain. I'm not sure if she has any firm morals or ethics
yet. She *seems* to be leaning towards Trent's stance about killing being
wrong -- yet she is a Dancer, and killed her own brother. Her loyalties are
very fluid, and shift with circumstances. Some of them she's kept: her
love for Trent, her friendship with Jimmy, perhaps even her love of
what's-his-name, the politician. (We know she has a child by him, and takes
his last name, so we can assume they get married.)
>According to
>Storyteller, this meeting was a major victory, and a blow to Tremodian.
It would really help to know what the Tremodian-Storyteller battle is
*about*, and what the goals are. Without knowing those, it's rather
difficult to decide much.
Sean.
****************
*** 08-29-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected]
Subject: The 'Player' in 'God of Players'
--------
[email protected] writes:
> One thought I'd had: earlier, in rasfw, I'd asked the question 'Why
>did Camber want to prevent Denice and Dvan from meeting?'. According to
>Storyteller, this meeting was a major victory, and a blow to Tremodian.
>This makes sense given the chain of events that follows; if Denice
>_hadn't_ met Dvan, she wouldn't have become a Dancer, would not have
>survived Sedon (cf the GoP's speech to her in her cell), and thus would
>not have lived to spawn the House of November. Without the House,
>Storyteller would never come to be.
> Am I taking that too far, or does it make sense?
sean eric fagan <
[email protected]> writes:
>As I think I said there: because Denice's life is now different, in
>some way. She's also managed to meet Camber -- even if only on the
>Crystal Plane.
>
>If Denice hadn't met Dvan, she wouldn't've been in the position she had
>been anyway -- a position that was responsible for her meeting Camber.
>Perhaps *that* was what Storyteller wanted to avoid.
This is a bit confused, I think, because Camber was the one who wanted
her to avoid meeting Dvan. It seems unlikely Camber would have wanted
her to avoid meeting Camber; and it doesn't seem like it would be that
hard to arrange.
Really there is not enough information to go on yet. If we assume
Camber and Denice would have met anyway, and Denice would found House
November anyway, then one possiblity is that her meeting with Dvan
influenced her choice to be a Dancer. The training Camber arranged for
her suggested he might have preferred her to be a Nightface, or take the
third path (godhood?). If so, he took the choice she did make
surprisingly well.
Why assume House November would have existed either way? Because of
Camber's comments on page 54 concerning how Denice's descendents make
her pretty much untouchable for he and Storyteller.
One interesting thing I just picked up skimming over the sections.
Somehow Dvan and Denice's meeting prevents Camber from manifesting as
Camber for several years. (page 53) "If you see me again it will be in
the Other Place; and in that place I am a different order of person." I
assume this is where Denice meets him, when he is the God of Players.
Also, he implies that this is sort of a trade-off, allowing him to get
protection for Trent.
-Sol
****************
*** 08-29-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: according to Locus
--------
Bantam is not going to be publishing any DKM books at least through June '95.
*sigh*
Sean.
****************
*** 08-30-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (rebecca a. drayer)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: according to Locus
--------
Sean wrote:
>Bantam is not going to be publishing any DKM books at least through June '95.
>*sigh*
>
>Sean.
Hmm. That's not what the back of TLD said. Are there any problems
between DKM and his editors, or is he just taking his time? :-)
---------------
Rebecca A. Drayer
Medical Student, Class of 1998
Cornell University Medical College
****************
*** 08-30-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: according to Locus
--------
>Hmm. That's not what the back of TLD said. Are there any problems
>between DKM and his editors, or is he just taking his time? :-)
Well, as someone said, he moved to New York. Also, there was an earthquake
(which may have been the reason he moved ;)).
And I do suspect there is a problem between Bantam and DKM: for almost any
other publisher, if an author had come out with the third book in a series
after several years, I'd've expected the previous book, if not the previous
two books, to be republished. They weren't with DKM. And _The Last Dancer_
seemed rather unpublicisized to me -- the first I knew of its publication
was when I read a readers' copy a few months before general publication.
And since the owner of the bookstore I go to knows how much I want DKM
books, she'd've let me know about it ASAP.
As I said earlier, I sent DKM a letter after I'd reread all the books, a few
months ago (well, probably nine or ten months ago now ;)), and I never got a
response. Maybe someone else should try it?
Sean.
****************
*** 08-30-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected]
Subject: according to Locus
--------
Sean writes:
>According to Locus, Bantam is not going to be publishing any DKM books
>at least through June '95. *sigh*
I'm assuming this means there's nothing on the forthcoming books list
yet. If so, it is not the final word. As I recall last time, it only a
few months before Last Dancer came out that it showed up in on Locus's
list, well after many books published that ended up being published at
the same time it was. So I wouldn't take a June date as authoritative
until next February or March.
If, on the other hand, Locus explicitly said that no book would be
coming out, disregard this, and write hate letters to Bantam.
-Sol
****************
*** 08-31-94 ***
****************
From: "jim l. sather" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: RE: The 'Player' in 'God of Players'
--------
When Sedon is imprisoned/hospitalized after being rescued from the
slowtime bubble, he looks for a modern word to express the concept of
'dancer'. One of the words that comes close is 'player', especially as
used to refer to very good webdancers. Perhaps Camber is god of all
those who are exceptionally adept at what they do ('player' in a very
general sense).
In my rereadings I've been watching for references as to why Camber and
Storyteller are opponents, but I haven't found much that really
explains why. I get the impression though that it's largely personal,
and maybe involves differing opinions of how to achieve a common goal.
I don't think Camber is trying to destroy the Castanaverases, but to
influence them. Camber admitted that he tried to kill Carl, but this
was only to prevent a later tragedy.
JimS
----------
| From: Solomon Foster <
[email protected]>
| To: <
[email protected]>
| Subject: The 'Player' in 'God of Players'
| Date: Monday, August 29, 1994 7:59PM
|
| Received: by netmail using toxenix
|
[email protected] Mon, 29 Aug 94 17:07:56 PDT
| Received: from totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu by
| netmail.microsoft.com with SMTP (5.65/25-eef)
| id AA06960; Mon, 29 Aug 94 17:07:54 -0700
| Received: by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.3)
| with X.500 id UAA16205; Mon, 29 Aug 1994 20:03:42 -0400
| Received: by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.3)
| with X.500 id UAA16197; Mon, 29 Aug 1994 20:03:39 -0400
| Received: from dip.eecs.umich.edu by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.3)
| with ESMTP id UAA16185; Mon, 29 Aug 1994 20:03:34 -0400
| Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([127.0.0.1]) by dip.eecs.umich.edu
| (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id TAA07812 for
| <
[email protected]>; Mon, 29 Aug 1994 19:59:22 -0400
| Message-Id: <
[email protected]>
| X-Authentication-Warning: dip.eecs.umich.edu: Host [127.0.0.1] didn't
use HELO protocol
|
|
[email protected] writes:
| > One thought I'd had: earlier, in rasfw, I'd asked the question 'Why
| >did Camber want to prevent Denice and Dvan from meeting?'. According to
| >Storyteller, this meeting was a major victory, and a blow to Tremodian.
| >This makes sense given the chain of events that follows; if Denice
| >_hadn't_ met Dvan, she wouldn't have become a Dancer, would not have
| >survived Sedon (cf the GoP's speech to her in her cell), and thus would
| >not have lived to spawn the House of November. Without the House,
| >Storyteller would never come to be.
| > Am I taking that too far, or does it make sense?
|
| sean eric fagan <
[email protected]> writes:
| >As I think I said there: because Denice's life is now different, in
| >some way. She's also managed to meet Camber -- even if only on the
| >Crystal Plane.
| >
| >If Denice hadn't met Dvan, she wouldn't've been in the position she had
| >been anyway -- a position that was responsible for her meeting Camber.
| >Perhaps *that* was what Storyteller wanted to avoid.
|
| This is a bit confused, I think, because Camber was the one who wanted
| her to avoid meeting Dvan. It seems unlikely Camber would have wanted
| her to avoid meeting Camber; and it doesn't seem like it would be that
| hard to arrange.
|
| Really there is not enough information to go on yet. If we assume
| Camber and Denice would have met anyway, and Denice would found House
| November anyway, then one possiblity is that her meeting with Dvan
| influenced her choice to be a Dancer. The training Camber arranged for
| her suggested he might have preferred her to be a Nightface, or take the
| third path (godhood?). If so, he took the choice she did make
| surprisingly well.
|
| Why assume House November would have existed either way? Because of
| Camber's comments on page 54 concerning how Denice's descendents make
| her pretty much untouchable for he and Storyteller.
|
| One interesting thing I just picked up skimming over the sections.
| Somehow Dvan and Denice's meeting prevents Camber from manifesting as
| Camber for several years. (page 53) "If you see me again it will be in
| the Other Place; and in that place I am a different order of person." I
| assume this is where Denice meets him, when he is the God of Players.
| Also, he implies that this is sort of a trade-off, allowing him to get
| protection for Trent.
|
| -Sol
|
|
****************
*** 09-01-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: technology marches one step closer to DKM
--------
A while back, I wrote a note about the paint that generated heat when an
electric current was run through it (and commented that if heat can be
generated, can visible light be far behind?). Previous to that, in the last
letter I sent to DKM in fact, I included some information about General
Magic's scripting language, which they say was designed so that one could
create "drones" that go out and do things for you -- like hunt through
databases, or make reservations, or other similar things. My comment to DKM
was that this sounded very much like how Images started out, before evolving
to their present form.
This bit is taken from comp.risks, and is similar to the GM thing. Note his
comments, and then think about what Players do, and how they and replicant
AI's live and do what they do...
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 12:45:46 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Rob Slade, the famous sleep deprivation experiment" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Risks of client search tools (the WWWorm turns, and returns, ...)
I noticed the following on net-happenings as an explanation of why a promised
World Wide Web search tool was not released. It doesn't give full details,
but, for those who can read between the lines, you can see that such a local
client search tool would consume enormous amounts of bandwidth. I'm glad that
the developer had the good sense not to pursue it. "Some searches were not
meant to be meddled with, Dr. Lemieux!" :-)
(btw, for those without W3 who want to access the document cited, send mail
to
[email protected] with the command:
www
http://web.nexor.co.uk/mak/doc/robots/robots.html
in the body of the message.)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 1994 19:03:53 -0400 (EDT)
SENDER: Mac WWW Worm <
[email protected]>
Subject: [announce] Mac WWW Worm
First, sorry for my french colleagues for this english answer. I
just didn't want to write it twice...
----------
Here are my presents thoughts about that:
1- Due to the net traffic that would be produce by such an easy-to-use
'bot, I first decided that it should _never_ be widely released.
2- My Mac WWW worm was an engine designed to search for specific
topics. He was downloading lots of pages, but kept informations
only about a little portion of them. This way there's a lot of
wasting in net resource.
So, if you were striving to get such a tool, you should consider
using one of the publicly accessible WWW Database.
3- Everyone running a bot without letting other people acces the data
is _wasting_ resources, and should not be permitted to do that...
Anyone interested in the subject of WWW Robot should consider reading
the following document:
http://web.nexor.co.uk/mak/doc/robots/robots.html
Before flaming me for not releasing the 'bot, read every thing you can
find under that URL.
----------
Beside that, the MacWWW worm program still contains lots of neat HyperCard
script that can be easily recycled for any internet based material... I would
accept to share all this material with any other HC-minded people.
Be aware that building net program is not a little thing. Even if HC
permit it to be really easy, you should always keep in mind that the
internet is a _public_ network. Don't waste other's resources...
Anyway, thanks for your interest.
Sebastien Lemieux, dept. biol.
[email protected]
http://alize.ere.umontreal.ca:8001/~lemieuse/
Ce message a ete reposte par le reposteur TCL
Pour info:
[email protected]
[Very lemieusing! PGN]
------------------------------
****************
*** 09-01-94 ***
****************
From: "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Baby-chasers
--------
Well, with the upcoming UN convention on population control, all I
could think was "Baby-chasers"... This is no comment on the agenda of
the convention, mind you, just an interesting sideline, as is Clipper
and the LINK... Does Moran know something we don't? :-)
****************
*** 10-12-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (chris-top-her)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Gaming and the Continuing Time
--------
Having not seen much traffic on the list for a while, I thought I would
bring up a subject that was mentioned by DKM himself in the great post a
long time back.
It was mentioned that at the time there was the possibility the R.
Talsorian Games might be doing an adaptation of the some of the stuff
(either from the Long Run, and Emerald Eyes or of stuff done after the
Long Run). I feel that a better company for either Bantam or DKM
himself to approach would be Steve Jackson Games.
I feel that GURPS would be able to give a truer feel to the continuing
time. We have handy such lovely items as GURPS Time Travel, GURPS
Psionics, GURPS Ultra Tech. From the comments I have seen and the
supplements I have seen and own (Yes I own some GURPS, but I also own
about 30 other systems also) the writers of the adapted supplements
have always done a good job in staying true to the original authors
intent. So far SJG has done Brin's "Uplift", Farmer's "Riverworld",
Smith's "Lensmen", Robinson's "Callahans". I can picture more in my
head but you get the idea. I think it would be quite enjoyable to run
a campaign through the Time Wars.
Well enough for now. Comments, Questions?
Chris Knight
****************
*** 10-12-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (chris-top-her)
To:
[email protected],
[email protected]
Subject: More CT gaming stuff...
--------
With the previous letter in mind, a number of years back I had the
oppurtunity to write up and run Trent in a game friend was running. We
were both fans of the books (all 3 at the time), and tried to do justice
to the character without overbalancing the campaign (200 pt characters if
you have looked though/played GURPS).
I thought some might be interested in the list of skills that I (and the
GM) had assigned to Trent (Prior to the The Last Dancer coming out).
If you think of some that he and I hadn't (and I've read TLR and EE
multiple times since then, but only found the char sheet recently)
Artist Dancing Acrobatics Running
Judo Karate Guns(water) Guns(Sliver)
First Aid Area Know(Fringe) Comp. Oper. Elec. Oper.(comp)
Elec Oper (sec.sys.)Comp. Prog Electronics Genetics
Literature Math Acting Diplomacy
Leadership Disguise Forgery Lockpicking
Streetwise Traps Comp. Hack. Deck. Op.
Engineering(genetic)Language(french) Heraldry Language(english)
Free Fall Vacc. Suit Fast Draw Area Know (moon)
Area Know (net) Electronics(net) Mechanics (net)
Yeah a pretty long list, though at this point I think that the only
one that I couldn't point out a specific example would be the
heraldry.
Comments, Questions? If anyone out there is personally interested in
the write-up I have for the characters we can personally discuss the
advantages, disadvantages, quirks that the GM and I decided on. That
is unless there is a sudden clamor for it on the list itself.
I haven't done any work on Denice as I don't have the psionics
handbook, nor the supers book. I have done some preliminary thinking
as to the PKF elite, but again the Ultra-tech sourcebook is not in my
possession, (though hopefully with the next paycheck...)
Chris Knight
****************
*** 10-12-94 ***
****************
From: "john r. snead" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: More CT gaming stuff...
--------
Well Chris, since the list is rather dead (with all of us mourning the
lack of any more DKM books this year), why don't you post the stats,
advantages and such for Trent, and perhaps some of the rest of us who are
also familiar with GURPS can do the same.
So, can anyone think of another system which would be good for CT gaming?
I've played around with adapting it to the White Wolf Storyteller system
some.
-Heron
[email protected]
****************
*** 10-15-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (chris-top-her)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Trent stuff for CT gaming in GURPS
--------
Well since I was asked I'm going to post stats, adv., disadv. With this
post I will just post the advantages and disadvantages (I want to have a
GURPS basic book in fron of me so that I can relate the Stats to something
real as opposed to just numbers.)
Advantages: (with some explanation) (and points for such)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
15: Natural Net Running - The GM and I came up with this as Trent's
answer to the lack of telepathy.
15: Patron = Ring - It's kinda nice to know someone who has been
around for 40,000 experiantly(sp?), and the restraunts he can get you
into :) Also good for plot hooks.
15: Combat Reflexs - Comes from being genetically perfect, along with
later the inskin.
105: Genegineered - DM's creation. We couldn't find anything on
genegineering in any of the source books that we had access to at the
time (I believe that he didn't have Ultra-Tech at the time, so I don't
know if there is anything in there on the subject). This enable Trent
to have better stats then what was initially paid for (the cost is the
difference between what was paid for and the actual stats)
10: Reputation +2 (Free Luna) - After the LINK caper, and the
Spacebase One/Media Event, this was decided on as opposed to something
more general like "Anyone not involved with the PKF"
30: Nural Interface - The inskin itself, this was nice cause Trent
didn't need to carry a pointboard, or handheld that could get lost.
Disadvantages (again with some explaination, and points)
----------------------------------------------------------------
-15: Pacificism: Cannot Kill - There are two levels mentioned in
GURPS, won't kill unless absolutely necessary, and can't kill. The GM
and I decided and the later was more likely though we might have
comeup with something else. It should be obvious to anyone who might
have read TLR where this comes from.
-20 Enemies (?) - All that is written down on the char. sheet is
Enemies. I was thinking it over the other evening and while Trent
does have the DataWatch, and the PKF specifically, along with the
Unification in t general as enemies it is difficult to quantify them
in game terms. It would be quite easy to take 50 or more points from
this disadvantage (especially after the LINK) but that would lower the
chance of survival for a Trent in a campaign (as is what I was doing).
I think that it was decided that Mohammad Vance with the backing of
the PKF elite was what was decided on in the end for the PC. It would
be quite easy to write up in a sourcebook way to give Trent 50+
pts. as he won't be around much to interact with the PC's (he's in the
belt, which is why he has survived the disadvantage).
-10 Compulsive Type Lying - I think that this not as bad as Compulsive
Lying(-15?). He lies well, and believable thats about all. He is
also, the only word I can think of is brazen, about his lying.
-5: Stubborness - When he sets out to do somethin he does it.
Sometimes to the detriment to himself, and others.
-20: Secret (Special) - Trent the Uncatchable, and Castanveres kid.
This was one that was for the campaign. Seems kinda silly for a thief
to go around with everyone knowing whom he was. It also was a life or
death secret. If someone found it out it could get him simply killed.
-10: Overconfidence - Very sure of himself, to the point, obviously of
overconfidence.
-10: Reputation -2 (PKF) - After LINK, Spacebase One, Emile, the media
conference, etc.
-5: Generous - Yes this is a disadvantage in GURPS, you want to give
money to worthy causes (feed people in Trent's case, 375,000 CU to
World Food Bank, before he was 18, out of 2 mil. CU)
-5: Intolerence (Fat People) - Yes, I did give this to him, from the
encounter in the elevator at the beginning of TLR, and comments given
later in the book. I think this stems from the hunger commitment
also.
-10: Vow x2 (Bring down Unification, Find David) - Do I really need to
explain these? This means that when he can he will further these two
goals, to the exception of other goals, with limits (the talk he has
with the female Player in the TLD is one such exception to this one of
the Vows)
Quirks (quirks are -1 point characteristics that make for good RP)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-1: Hates Fanatics - Says, and acts as such throughout TLR (and TLD)
-1: Joker - He loves playing a good joke (media, replacing file,
encounter w/ wathcdog)
-1: Tatoo - Long stem rose, and you know how you can ... :)
-2: Duty - (merely 6 or less of 3d6 at beginning of play session)
given for the people that he escaped from the Fringe with, along with
Denice.
Enough for now, as this has turned out longer then I though it would.
Chris Knight
[email protected]
who has very little pronoun trouble...
****************
*** 10-15-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (chris-top-her)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Additional possibilities...
--------
Having gotten home and looked through the GURPS basic set book, I realize
that there are other possibilities for advantages, and disadvatages for a
sourcebook write-up of Trent. The following are given for consideration
(and yes some of these were considered at the char sheet write up, but the
point value would have been prohibitive)
Advantages :
Acute hearing; at least +1 possibly more.
Acute Vision; also at least +1, but may have limitation of concentration
required.
Absolute Timing;
Alertness;
The Above four should all come from the inskin that Trent has, (and may
infact be part of the write up, see Nueral interface) The degree for the
the acute might be variable (see Trent's examination of the temple on the
moon) It may be possible that he could also acuire Acute Taste and Smell
at some level above 0. It might also be possible to give these to Trent
prior to the inskin job, as he was genetically engineered from the ground up.
Attractiveness; More then once (and especially by the bio-sculpter,
whose trade is in beauty) the Trent is beautiful.
Charisma; this might be an alternative to the Attractiveness, or in
addition to it.
Eidetic Memory; After the inskin, definitely the true photographic.
Possible before he might have the general concentration type.
High Pain Threshold; this is iffy, as if is rare that we see Trent in
any real pain (ex: jumping off of Old Jack's to escape Emile, and
doing something to his knee (what we don't know) and still running as
fast as he can to the car; the fight with Vance after the LINK;
crashing on the moon)
Lightning calculator; After the inskin.
Longevity; This is another tricky one. We haven't seen any of the
genegineered last long enough to find out if this applies. Being
built from the ground up they (Trent, Denice esp.) are less much less
likely to succumb to heriditry diseases, and they might be much
healthier then norm (htis can be compensated in the Stats though)
Mathematical Ability; Maybe after the inskin, not really sure.
Night Vision; After the inskin and the image processing (again see the
temple viewing on the moon).
Peripheral Vision; another possibility with the addition of the
inskin.
Rapid Healing; a product of being built gene by gene, see the
arguement for longevity.
Strong Will; There are a number of times where Trent keeps his cool
long after most others would have given up(esp. Spacebase One, and
psuedo-captured by Vance on the Moon).
Unusual Background; This I think was the original reason being the
Advantage of Genetically Engineered for the write-up. Suffice to say
that he does have one, and it could be an advantage, or disadvantage
depending on how you look at it.
Allies; Denice, the Citystates, SpaceFarer, Jimmy, Ring, Johnny Johnny
(before the inskin), Ralf.
Well that's it from the Basic Set, he might be elligible for other
that might be in Cyberpunk, Space, Ultra-Tech, High-Tech, but seeing
as how I don't have any of those (yet!), I'll leave those for others.
Now onto the Disadvantages also possible Social Stigma; "He's a
Castanaveras", PKF/Unification would love to get there hands on him
permanetly, outlaw (hero in some eyes, villian in others) Youth;
depends on when you start a Trent character (prior to age 18) or when
he is encountered. (There are very few phyisical disadv. that he will
have (unless something major happens to him after TLD)) (sidenote: My
girlfriend and I were discussing the type of musculature that the
Castanaveras would have to have to be able to seemingly do some of the
things (running at ~45 km/hr after being injured), any comments?)
Addicition; Data-Starve as Trent mentions after being in the holding
cell for 4 days. This might be available to any who choose to be
players. AKA Player's Syndrome. Code Of Honor; You decide.
Impulsiveness; Maybe, maybe not ( I would tend to with the name under
which he travels to Spacebase One, though that might be the joker in
him) Dependents: Johnny, Johnny, Jimmy, et al. (Or a Sense of Duty
towards them instead) Enemies; I discussed this before, but after
looking at the description in GURPS, Trent could easily qualify for
80-120 for this while in Unification controlled territory. His enemy
is an entire government, which could appear all the time, or even
quite often. Trent seems to graduate to higher (and more powerful
enemies) as TLR progresses. He starts with Emile (-10 pts), moves up
to Mohammad Vance (w/ PKF) (-20 pts.), then up to the PKF (w/ MV,
after the media conference) (-30), and finally up to the entire
Unification (PKF, DataWatch, BioSciences, Traffic, hell he probably
even pissed off the Ministry of Pop. Control somehow) (-40). Even the
freq. that they show up gets worse (more often) as time goes by.
That's all for the disadv. list possibilities from the Basic Set. Any
other suggestions from those with Space, Cyberpunk, Ultra- or
High-tech?
Any suggestions for any of the other characters? Denice after TLD
would be as formidible as Trent after TLR (even before marrying Ripper
(think Major Ally)).
Chris Knight
[email protected]
wondering what he would do with a three armed boy....
****************
*** 10-15-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (chris-top-her)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Additional (again... sorry)
--------
(this is a repost due to my reading it again after posting it ... sorry
about the bad formatting on the original post.)
Having gotten home and looked through the GURPS basic set book, I realize
that there are other possibilities for advantages, and disadvatages for a
sourcebook write-up of Trent. The following are given for consideration
(and yes some of these were considered at the char sheet write up, but the
point value would have been prohibitive)
Advantages :
Acute hearing; at least +1 possibly more.
Acute Vision; also at least +1, but may have limitation of concentration
required.
Absolute Timing;
Alertness;
The Above four should all come from the inskin that Trent has, (and may
infact be part of the write up, see Nueral interface) The degree for the
the acute might be variable (see Trent's examination of the temple on the
moon) It may be possible that he could also acuire Acute Taste and Smell
at some level above 0. It might also be possible to give these to Trent
prior to the inskin job, as he was genetically engineered from the ground up.
Attractiveness; More then once (and especially by the bio-sculpter,
whose trade is in beauty) the Trent is beautiful.
Charisma; this might be an alternative to the Attractiveness, or in
addition to it.
Eidetic Memory; After the inskin, definitely the true photographic.
Possible before he might have the general concentration type.
High Pain Threshold; this is iffy, as if is rare that we see Trent in
any real pain (ex: jumping off of Old Jack's to escape Emile, and
doing something to his knee (what we don't know) and still running as
fast as he can to the car; the fight with Vance after the LINK;
crashing on the moon)
Lightning calculator; After the inskin.
Longevity; This is another tricky one. We haven't seen any of the
genegineered last long enough to find out if this applies. Being
built from the ground up they (Trent, Denice esp.) are less much less
likely to succumb to heriditry diseases, and they might be much
healthier then norm (htis can be compensated in the Stats though)
Mathematical Ability; Maybe after the inskin, not really sure.
Night Vision; After the inskin and the image processing (again see the
temple viewing on the moon).
Peripheral Vision; another possibility with the addition of the
inskin.
Rapid Healing; a product of being built gene by gene, see the
arguement for longevity.
Strong Will; There are a number of times where Trent keeps his cool
long after most others would have given up(esp. Spacebase One, and
psuedo-captured by Vance on the Moon).
Unusual Background; This I think was the original reason being the
Advantage of Genetically Engineered for the write-up. Suffice to say
that he does have one, and it could be an advantage, or disadvantage
depending on how you look at it.
Allies; Denice, the Citystates, SpaceFarer, Jimmy, Ring, Johnny Johnny
(before the inskin), Ralf.
Well that's it from the Basic Set, he might be elligible for other
that might be in Cyberpunk, Space, Ultra-Tech, High-Tech, but seeing
as how I don't have any of those (yet!), I'll leave those for others.
Now onto the Disadvantages also possible:
Social Stigma; "He's a Castanaveras", PKF/Unification would love to
get there hands on him permanetly, outlaw (hero in some eyes, villian
in others)
Youth; depends on when you start a Trent character (prior to age 18) or when
he is encountered.
(There are very few phyisical disadv. that he will have (unless
something major happens to him after TLD))
(sidenote: My girlfriend and I were discussing the type of musculature that the
Castanaveras would have to have to be able to seemingly do some of the
things (running at ~45 km/hr after being injured), any comments?)
Addicition; Data-Starve as Trent mentions after being in the holding
cell for 4 days. This might be available to any who choose to be
players. AKA Player's Syndrome.
Code Of Honor; You decide.
Impulsiveness; Maybe, maybe not ( I would tend to with the name under
which he travels to Spacebase One, though that might be the joker in
him) Dependents: Johnny, Johnny, Jimmy, et al. (Or a Sense of Duty
towards them instead)
Enemies; I discussed this before, but after looking at the description
in GURPS, Trent could easily qualify for 80-120 for this while in
Unification controlled territory. His enemy is an entire government,
which could appear all the time, or even quite often. Trent seems to
graduate to higher (and more powerful enemies) as TLR progresses. He
starts with Emile (-10 pts), moves up to Mohammad Vance (w/ PKF) (-20
pts.), then up to the PKF (w/ MV, after the media conference) (-30),
and finally up to the entire Unification (PKF, DataWatch, BioSciences,
Traffic, hell he probably even pissed off the Ministry of Pop. Control
somehow) (-40). Even the freq. that they show up gets worse (more
often) as time goes by.
That's all for the disadv. list possibilities from the Basic Set. Any
other suggestions from those with Space, Cyberpunk, Ultra- or
High-tech?
Any suggestions for any of the other characters? Denice after TLD
would be as formidible as Trent after TLR (even before marrying Ripper
(think Major Ally)).
Chris Knight
[email protected]
wondering what he would do with a three armed boy....
****************
*** 10-17-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Gaming and the Continuing Time
--------
Chris Knight writes:
>It was mentioned that at the time there was the possibility the R.
>Talsorian Games might be doing an adaptation of the some of the stuff
>(either from the Long Run, and Emerald Eyes or of stuff done after the
>Long Run). I feel that a better company for either Bantam or DKM
>himself to approach would be Steve Jackson Games.
"john r. snead" <
[email protected]> writes:
>Well Chris, since the list is rather dead (with all of us mourning the
>lack of any more DKM books this year), why don't you post the stats,
>advantages and such for Trent, and perhaps some of the rest of us who
>are also familiar with GURPS can do the same.
>So, can anyone think of another system which would be good for CT
>gaming? I've played around with adapting it to the White Wolf
>Storyteller system some.
As a GURPS fan from way back, I think GURPS would be an excellent
choice. On the other hand, these days I would prefer something similar
to the Amber system. (Actually, I think the Storyteller system might
fit the bill, but don't know anything about it.) GURPS is great if you
want realistic, but freeform systems seem to handle cinematic, fantastic
stuff better. DKM's books, with their flamboyant, frequently amazingly
powerful characters seems a perfect fit for the latter. (In fact, a
decent hunk of my current Amber campaign has been set in the Continuing
Time. Trent has yet to be heard from, but Camber, Storyteller, Ralf,
and ever so briefly Denice have made appearances.)
Having said that, I loved seeing the GURPS Trent writeup. Since reading
the Long Run, I've never been able to look at the "Cannot Kill"
disadvantage without thinking of Trent. I'd be interested in seeing
other characters writen up. And I think (possibly incorrectly) if you
write them up carefully, without too much obscure gaming jargon, they
will be interesting to the entire list. (The jargon mention is
hypothetical --- the Trent post did a good job of explaining what was
meant to non-GURPS gamers, I thought.)
Final note --- if you disagree and don't want to see this stuff on
the list, please drop me personal e-mail. If there is a sizable
objection, we can take this discussion off the list. Likewise, this
isn't the place to discuss the merits of various gaming systems,
so if you want to talk about those, let's do it via private e-mail.
-Sol
[email protected]
****************
*** 10-17-94 ***
****************
From: "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], colomon
Subject: Re: Gaming and the Continuing Time
--------
I think that the "Mage" system (White Wolf) would work pretty well,
although I haven't tried it...
****************
*** 10-17-94 ***
****************
From: "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], colomon
Subject: Re: Gaming and the Continuing Time
--------
I think that the "Mage" system (White Wolf) would work pretty well,
although I haven't tried it...
****************
*** 10-17-94 ***
****************
From: joshua kronengold <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], colomon, "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Gaming and the Continuing Time
--------
Personally, I think OTE is the best system for any characters from
literature, after all, it most closely follows the general
conception/development of characters, rather than fighting the
mechanics.
--
Joshua Kronengold --
[email protected]
Sig file unde
****************
*** 10-17-94 ***
****************
From: joshua kronengold <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], colomon, "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Gaming and the Continuing Time
--------
Personally, I think OTE is the best system for any characters from
literature, after all, it most closely follows the general
conception/development of characters, rather than fighting the
mechanics.
--
Joshua Kronengold --
[email protected]
Sig file unde
****************
*** 10-17-94 ***
****************
From: "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], colomon
Subject: Re: Gaming and the Continuing Time
--------
I think that the "Mage" system (White Wolf) would work pretty well,
although I haven't tried it...
****************
*** 10-17-94 ***
****************
From: joshua kronengold <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], colomon, "patrick g. bridges" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Gaming and the Continuing Time
--------
Personally, I think OTE is the best system for any characters from
literature, after all, it most closely follows the general
conception/development of characters, rather than fighting the
mechanics.
--
Joshua Kronengold --
[email protected]
Sig file unde
****************
*** 10-19-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (chris-top-her)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Confussion ...
--------
As the gaming thread is moving right along (heavy sarcasm) ...
I just finished The Last Dancer, and I am mightly confused.
<not many spoilers here>
Near the end of the book, Denice is on a bus heading somewhere. While on
the bus she meets someone who she could never meet. The "woman" who
supposedly started the worship of the goddess in pre-Hellanic Greece. This
should be impossible.
This should be impossible. The only woman of any longevity who was with
the exiles was the Keeper, who was killed. None of the Dancers
werefemale, nor were any of the Shields. Were the breeders long lived?
Anyone have any good ideas?
Chris Knight
****************
*** 10-19-94 ***
****************
From: "mike o\\'malley" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected], chris-top-her <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Confussion ...
--------
On Wed, 19 Oct 1994, Chris-top-her wrote:
> As the gaming thread is moving right along (heavy sarcasm) ...
>
> I just finished The Last Dancer, and I am mightly confused.
>
> <not many spoilers here>
> Near the end of the book, Denice is on a bus heading somewhere. While on
> the bus she meets someone who she could never meet. The "woman" who
> supposedly started the worship of the goddess in pre-Hellanic Greece. This
> should be impossible.
>
> This should be impossible. The only woman of any longevity who was with
> the exiles was the Keeper, who was killed. None of the Dancers
> werefemale, nor were any of the Shields. Were the breeders long lived?
>
> Anyone have any good ideas?
>
> Chris Knight
>
As I understood it, _all_ the Flame People were functionally immortal,
due to genetic manipulation.
On another note, who was the first shivata? The boy Mica, who killed
the Keeper? One of the students of Indo?
Technically, Indo himself wasn't a shivata, but he was certainly
responsible for shiabre...
Mike
****************
*** 10-20-94 ***
****************
From: "jim l. sather" <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Confussion ...
--------
I think they were all (effectively) immortal. I actually liked this
character quite a lot. It seemed so perfect to me. She would have had
a very realistic chance of surviving the endless War of Retribution,
because none of the Shield thought of women as being persons, and thus
would not have bothered to try to find and kill any such as her.
JimS
----------
| From: "MIke O\\'Malley" <
[email protected]>
|
| On Wed, 19 Oct 1994, Chris-top-her wrote:
|
| > As the gaming thread is moving right along (heavy sarcasm) ...
| >
| > I just finished The Last Dancer, and I am mightly confused.
| >
| > <not many spoilers here>
| > Near the end of the book, Denice is on a bus heading somewhere. While on
| > the bus she meets someone who she could never meet. The "woman" who
| > supposedly started the worship of the goddess in pre-Hellanic Greece. This
| > should be impossible.
| >
| > This should be impossible. The only woman of any longevity who was with
| > the exiles was the Keeper, who was killed. None of the Dancers
| > werefemale, nor were any of the Shields. Were the breeders long lived?
| >
| > Anyone have any good ideas?
| >
| > Chris Knight
| >
| As I understood it, _all_ the Flame People were functionally immortal,
| due to genetic manipulation.
| On another note, who was the first shivata? The boy Mica, who killed
| the Keeper? One of the students of Indo?
| Technically, Indo himself wasn't a shivata, but he was certainly
| responsible for shiabre...
| Mike
|
|
****************
*** 10-20-94 ***
****************
From: windsor d williams <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (dk_moran list)
Subject: The Continuing Search...for DKM info/books
--------
Hello there, everyone. Things were quiet for a long while, but the
recent gaming and confusion threads have got my interest up again. I
got in contact with Bantam, checking about new release info or
anything on the earlier books. As usual, the customer help people
were most UN-helpful. No information at all...zip, zero, nada. Only
possibly useful bit was a recommendation that I check with their New
York office to see if DKM is even under contract with them anymore.
Does anyone have any info about DKM's recent activities? We were
rumored to have a book or two on the way this year, which has (to all
appearances) fallen through completely. I seem to remember something
a while ago about him moving, but I don't recall what exactly was
said. IS he even with Bantam any longer? Is he even alive? Anybody
got any info at all?
AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGH! (I expect you know how I feel!)
I hate getting left hanging like this, especially since it seemed
things were looking up after The Last Dancer came out. I was hoping
that things were going to move along (at least kind of) smoothly
after that happened.
Windsor
(Thanks in advance for any info at all!)
****************
*** 10-22-94 ***
****************
From: colomon
To:
[email protected] (dk_moran list)
Subject: The Continuing Search...for DKM info/books
--------
> Does anyone have any info about DKM's recent activities? We were
>rumored to have a book or two on the way this year, which has (to all
>appearances) fallen through completely. I seem to remember something a
>while ago about him moving, but I don't recall what exactly was said. IS
>he even with Bantam any longer? Is he even alive? Anybody got any info
>at all?
I don't have any information, but I'd like to add another specific
request. Does anyone know his current mailing address? I'm thinking
I'd like to buy myself the Long Run screenplay for Christmas, but I
don't have a current address for DKM.
-Sol
[email protected]
****************
*** 10-23-94 ***
****************
From: simon tak lam tong <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Let Bantam how we feel
--------
I suggest everyone on the mailing list to write a letter to Bantam
at least once a month or even twice a month to urge them to reissue
EE and TLR. It doesn't have to be a long letter, just a brief note
or postcard will do. Once they realise how the customer feel and
there is money to be made, they might listen.
I have sent them a couple of postcards already to let them
know how annoyed we are and I'll continue to do so until they listen.
So if you really want to see them reissued, not to mention helping DKM
to get a fair go, start sending Bantam letters and let them know.
I CAN't do this on my own.
Simon Tong
Melbourne, Australia
P.S. If anyone finds out DKM is not with Bantam anymore, please let
the list know, I don't want to keep barking up the wrong tree.
****************
*** 11-17-94 ***
****************
From: simon tak lam tong <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Letters to Bantam
--------
I sent a similar letter to the list a few weeks ago and
didn't receive any reply, which made me wonder if it had
gone to the list at all. So I'm trying again.
If you are annoyed with Bantam for not keeping Daniel Keys Moran's
_Tales of The Continuing Time_ series in print, then please join me
in a letter-writing campaign.
I want to let Bantam know that :-
a) There is a substantial number of people out there who has
read _The Last Dancer_, and want to read all the other
novels in the series.
b) It is unacceptable to advertise his other books on the blub
of _The Last Dancer_, but not republishing them.
That is no way to treat its customers.
c) Bantam should support its authors by making sure previous books
in a series are available when a sequel comes out.
It is deplorable for Bantam not to do so.
d) Most importantly, there are many, many Moran fans out there,
and there is money to be made if only the books are available.
#### If ENOUGH people write in, *maybe* they'll pay attention. ####
If you can't be bothered composing a letter, e-mail me, I am
drafting a letter that everyone can use.
Here is the address :-
Bantam Books
1540 Broadway,
New York,
New York 10036
****************
*** 11-17-94 ***
****************
From: joel isaac singer <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected] (dkm mailing list)
Subject: List
--------
unsubscribe
****************
*** 11-17-94 ***
****************
From: charles clark <
[email protected]>
x-sender:
[email protected]
To: dkm mailing list <
[email protected]>, joel isaac singer <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: List
--------
On Thu, 17 Nov 1994, Joel Isaac Singer wrote:
> unsubscribe
You sent it to the right address the first time.
--
cmclark
"... another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
whereas I am merely in disguise." -- Elaine Risley
****************
*** 11-20-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (maureen s. obrien)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Song- Dancer in the Darkness
Reply-To:
[email protected]
--------
Dancer in the Darkness
Lyrics & Music: Maureen S. O'Brien
On a crystal-black plain, flicker
twisted candle-flames of blue.
She's a Lord of House November,
and the dreams she sees are true.
And she Dances in the darkness
in a pillar of pure Flame,
And her Dancing cuts the darkness like a claim.
CH: Dancer in the darkness,
Living for the Light.
Moving like the morning, knows the face of night.
Gifted with November -- taking us to spring.
I should Dance your story.
I can only sing.
She's a woman. She's a wonder.
She's befriended; she's alone.
She enjoys the art of Killing
and she loathes the death she's known.
She is forced to find a path untrod
for forty thousand years --
Little wonder that the Dancer treads her tears.
CH:
BR: In a city called Ascension
(It is empty as a tomb)
Stand before the Lord of Players
as she chooses her own doom.
On the one hand is the golden Flame whose heart is black & cold.
On the other is the nothingness one sickens to behold...
So she calls herself a dream of life,
and he armors her in Flame
And finally the Dancer finds her Name.
Now she Dances in the darkness,
and she Dances through the land;
And her Dance is work and weapon
as she serves the Light's command.
And her emerald eyes are gleaming,
for as priest and judge of heart,
The Dancer turns her burns into her art.
CH:
--
Maureen S. O'Brien
[email protected]
"You must begin printing books again."
****************
*** 11-21-94 ***
****************
From:
[email protected] (maureen s. obrien)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Mahliya Kutura
Reply-To:
[email protected]
--------
Does the list like Mahliya Kutura? If she were recording now,
would you buy her albums?
Does the list like the Armageddon Blues Band?
And in general, does the list like Moran's poetry\songs in his
books?
[This part of the list likes them very much, and is frustrated
that she can't quite pin his style down enough to imitate it....]
--
Maureen S. O'Brien
[email protected]
"You must begin printing books again."
****************
*** 11-21-94 ***
****************
From: david silberstein <
[email protected]>
To: "d. k. moran list" <
[email protected]>, "maureen s. obrien" <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Song- Dancer in the Darkness
--------
This is truly excellent stuff!
Keep it up, by all means. But do you mind if I kibitz a little?
in the first stanza, you wrote:
>On a crystal-black plain, flicker
> twisted candle-flames of blue.
>She's a Lord of House November,
> and the dreams she sees are true.
>And she Dances in the darkness
> in a pillar of pure Flame,
>And her Dancing cuts the darkness like a claim.
Now, I may be handicapped by not hearing the music you have scored for
the song (do you have an .au/.wav/.snd file available for retreival?),
but I think the last line could be improoooved by changing it to:
And her Dancing cuts the darkness with the Fire she has tamed.
This of course changes the meter of the stanza, and perhaps of the
whole song.
I was thinking of some more changes, but I'll wait and see how you respond
to the blitherings of this amateur before trying anything else.
Keep up the good work!
--
David S.
****************
*** 11-27-94 ***
****************
From: roderick su <
[email protected]>
To: continuing time list <
[email protected]>
Subject: This is a test
--------
please ignore, this is a test
[ Rodrick Su [ If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for ]
[----------------------[ skydiving. [ ``Games of the Hangman'' ]
[
[email protected] ]------------------------[ Victor O'Reilly ]
****************
*** 11-29-94 ***
****************
From: roderick su <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: It's now near the end of 94
--------
I wonder where is Lord November that was promised about 2 years ago???
[ Rodrick Su [ If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for ]
[----------------------[ skydiving. [ ``Games of the Hangman'' ]
[
[email protected] ]------------------------[ Victor O'Reilly ]
****************
*** 11-29-94 ***
****************
From: sean eric fagan <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: It's now near the end of 94
--------
>I wonder where is Lord November that was promised about 2 years ago???
It was promised for '94, wasn't it? Or late '93 anyway... so it's only a
year late.
Unfortunately, it's past 5PM EST, so I can't call Bantam and ask. Maybe
I'll remember to do that tomorrow.
I have sent two letters to DKM c/o Bantam, and included a self-addressed
stamped envelope each time; I have never gotten a response. Maybe it's me;
I've asked other people to try, but nobody has (or at least, nobody's told
me if they have), so I don't know.
And, yes, I'm very disappointed; I keep asking my bookseller if there are
any new DKM books on the way, and never am told yes :(.
Sean.
