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From:
[email protected] (Myra Dinnerstein)
Subject: TRACY KENNEDY - JUROR DISMISSAL
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Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:11:06 GMT
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March 8, 1995
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD AT THE BENCH:)
THE COURT: MADAM REPORTER -- WE'RE OVER HERE AT SIDEBAR
WITH COUNSEL -- THIS IS TO BE A SEALED MATTER.
MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR.
WE -- I THINK MAYBE IT WAS LAST THURSDAY, WHICH WOULD
BE THURSDAY, MARCH 2ND, I RECEIVED A CALL IN MY OFFICE FROM A
JUROR WHO IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS "TT", I BELIEVE ONE OF OUR FORMER
JURORS.
SHE SAID SHE HAD INFORMATION REGARDING TWO OF THE
JURORS. I THINK IT'S 602 AND ONE OTHER ONE. I'M NOT CLEAR WHO
THE OTHER ONE WAS.
AND SHE WANTED TO START TELLING ME ABOUT INFORMATION
THAT SHE HAD REGARDING THEM, AND I SAID I THINK WE'RE NOT
PERMITTED TO INVESTIGATE THIS. "YOU SHOULD CALL AND TALK TO HIS
HONOR'S CLERK AND MAKE YOUR REPORT THROUGH HER."
I MENTIONED THIS TO THE COURT EARLIER AND THE COURT
INDICATED THAT PERHAPS SHE HAS NOW CALLED OR MADE SOME OFFICIAL
REPORT OR WROTE A LETTER TO US.
THE COURT: YES. SHE DID IN FACT CALL. MRS. ROBERTSON
PREPARED ANOTHER ONE OF HER MEMOS, AND THAT MEMO WAS FAXED
YESTERDAY TO DEPUTY DOWNS, AND HE'LL PROVIDE A COPY TO YOU WHEN
WE COME BACK FROM LUNCH.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE
SURE IT GOT ON THE RECORD.
****
March 13, 1995
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; MONDAY, MARCH 13, 1995
1:30 P.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)
(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE
M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD
IN CAMERA:)
THE COURT: I'M GOING TO CALL IN ORDER, STARTING WITH 1427,
GO THROUGH THE LIST AND ASK THEM WHAT'S GOING ON.
MRS. ROBERTSON, WOULD YOU ASK 1427 TO STEP IN.
AND IF I FORGET, REMIND ME TO ADMONISH THE PERSON NOT
TO DISCUSS THIS.
(JUROR NO. 1427 ENTERS CHAMBERS.)
THE CLERK: JUROR 1427.
THE COURT: 1427, COME ON IN, SIT DOWN. HAVE A SEAT.
HOW ARE YOU TODAY?
JUROR NO. 1427: FINE. HOW ARE YOU?
THE COURT: GOOD. GOOD.
THE REASON I CALLED YOU IN IS, I GOT A TYPEWRITTEN
NOTE --
JUROR NO. 1427: UH-HUH.
THE COURT: -- THAT HAS YOUR NUMBER HERE DOWN AT THE
BOTTOM, AND APPARENTLY IT IS REGARDING JUROR NO. 602.
AM I CORRECT IN THAT?
JUROR NO. 1427: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT'S GOING ON?
JUROR NO. 1427: THIS WAS -- I BELIEVE IT'S BEEN -- AN
ISSUE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN TAKEN CARE OF.
THE FIRST -- WITHIN THE FIRST MONTH, HE WOULD TRY AND
GET PEOPLE TOGETHER AND DISCUSS THINGS, LIKE HE WOULD TRY AND GET
THINGS OUT IN THE AIR, SUPPOSEDLY TO CLEAR THE AIR ON LITTLE
PERSONAL DIFFERENCES, PETTY LITTLE THINGS THAT MAY BOTHER ONE
PERSON AND OTHER PEOPLE MAY NOT BE AWARE OF.
AT FIRST, I REALLY THOUGHT HE WAS SINCERE IN HIS
TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TOGETHER AND RESOLVE LITTLE DIFFERENCES SO
WE COULD GET ALONG BETTER AS A GROUP. AND BY THE END OF THE
FIRST SESSION --
THIS TOOK PLACE TWICE. BY THE END OF THE FIRST
SESSION, IT WAS PRETTY OBVIOUS BY THE WAY THESE MEETINGS WERE
GOING THAT IT WAS JUST A LOT OF FINGER POINTING AND ARGUING AND
PEOPLE WERE JUST NOT REALLY COOPERATING OR GIVING ANY
CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM TO ONE ANOTHER. THEY WERE JUST TRYING TO
VENT ANGER, FRUSTRATION AT OTHER INDIVIDUALS WHO NEVER --
I KNOW SOME INDIVIDUALS ARE MORE OUTSPOKEN THAN
OTHERS, AND THESE OUTSPOKEN INDIVIDUALS SOMETIMES GET TARGETED
BECAUSE THEY EXPRESS OPINIONS OR CONCERNS OR THEY ASK FOR CERTAIN
THINGS.
LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, ONE PERSON, I REMEMBER SHE ASKED
IF THE SHERIFFS COULD BE IN NORMAL STREET CLOTHING WHILE THEY ARE
AT THE HOTEL BECAUSE IT'S MORE COMFORTABLE FOR THEM AND FOR US AS
WELL. WE JUST FELT A LITTLE MORE COMFORTABLE.
AND SHE WROTE A LETTER AND I REMEMBER YOU MENTIONED
THAT IN THE COURT. AND THEN WHEN WE WENT BACK INTO THE
DELIBERATION ROOM, EVERYBODY ATTACKED HER. THEY SAID, "WHAT WAS
THAT LETTER ABOUT," AND, "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL US ABOUT IT? WHY
DID YOU REQUEST SOMETHING WITHOUT FIRST CONSULTING THE REST OF
US," AND, "DON'T EVER DO THAT AGAIN."
AND I THOUGHT, EXCUSE ME, BUT PEOPLE HERE HAVE THE
RIGHT TO THEIR OWN OPINION AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO
EXPRESSING THEIR OWN OPINION AND WHAT IT IS THEY WOULD LIKE TO
HAVE DONE, AND PEOPLE JUST KEPT ON, GOING BACK AND FORTH
ATTACKING THIS INDIVIDUAL FOR NO APPARENT REASON.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S REALLY A PURPOSE TO
THESE MEETINGS OTHER THAN TO ATTACK INDIVIDUALS THAT OTHER
INDIVIDUALS DON'T LIKE.
THE COURT: CAN YOU TELL ME THE OTHER TOPICS THAT HAVE BEEN
DISCUSSED AT ANY OF THESE MEETINGS?
JUROR NO. 1427: JUST PETTY LITTLE THINGS, PERSONAL HABITS.
THE COURT: GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES.
JUROR NO. 1427: OKAY.
AN EXAMPLE, SOMEBODY -- ONE JUROR MENTIONED ANOTHER
JUROR IS A LITTLE LOUD OR BOISTEROUS, BUT THAT'S JUST HER
PERSONALITY, AND SHE JUST SPEAKS LOUD AND SHE CAN'T HELP IT.
PEOPLE WERE JUST POINTING THINGS OUT ABOUT OTHER
PEOPLE, BUT NOT IN A NICE WAY. THEY WEREN'T SAYING, "OH, COULD
YOU PLEASE KEEP IT DOWN. I KNOW IT'S KIND OF HARD BECAUSE THAT'S
JUST THE WAY YOU ARE." I MEAN, THEY WERE JUST POINTING FINGERS
AT EACH OTHER AND JUST GOING ON AND ON.
AND THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE ABOUT ANOTHER JUROR
WHO HE'S ALWAYS PUTTING HIS FEET ON TABLES, YOU KNOW, THE DINING
ROOM TABLE, THINGS LIKE THAT, AND THAT HAPPENS TO BE THE JUROR
THAT WE TALKED ABOUT. AND I CONFRONTED HIM PERSONALLY ABOUT
ANOTHER LITTLE THING THAT WOULD BOTHER US THAT HE WOULD DO, AND I
TRY AND DO IT NICELY, AND I THINK THAT'S THE WAY TO HANDLE
THINGS, PERSON TO PERSON, AND NOT BRING IT OUT IN FRONT OF AN
ENTIRE GROUP AND TRY TO HUMILIATE SOMEBODY PUBLICLY.
IT'S JUST THAT HE ALONG WITH A FEW OTHER JURORS LIKE
HAVING THESE MEETINGS AND A LOT OF US DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH
THE MEETINGS BECAUSE WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE BEING TARGETED OR WE FEEL
THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE COURAGE TO STAND UP TO AN
INDIVIDUAL AND SAY, "EXCUSE ME, I WISH YOU WOULDN'T DO THIS. IT
KIND OF BOTHERS ME." INSTEAD, THEY WAIT FOR THESE MEETINGS AND
THEN THEY DO IT IN A GANG MANNER AND THEY GANG UP ON ONE
INDIVIDUAL THREE OR FOUR AT A TIME, AND THAT'S NOT PROPER. I
DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS PROPER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER SUBJECTS? HAVE YOU EVER
DISCUSSED ANY OF THE FACTS OR THE ISSUES HERE IN THE COURTROOM?
JUROR NO. 1427: NO. NOTHING ABOUT BEING HERE INSIDE THE
COURTROOM, NOTHING ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. IT'S JUST
PERSONAL TO MY KNOWLEDGE, IDIOSYNCRACIES, JUST HAVING TO LIVE
WITH EACH OTHER FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME, JUST CABIN FEVER,
JUST HAVING TO BE AROUND THESE PEOPLE DAY IN AND DAY OUT.
THE COURT: HOW ARE THINGS TODAY?
JUROR NO. 1427: WELL, I NOTICE PEOPLE ARE A LITTLE MORE
INTROVERTED BECAUSE THEY REALIZE THAT WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH EACH
OTHER FOR QUITE A WHILE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT ABLE TO LET
GO OF THEIR HOSTILITIES OR WHATEVER IT IS THEIR PROBLEM IS.
I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING. I'VE TRIED TO
BE POLITE TO EVERYONE, BUT SOME PEOPLE DO NOT RESPOND TO THAT
POLITENESS.
ANOTHER JUROR, FOR EXAMPLE, SINCE -- WE'RE ABLE TO
SKIP DINNER. A LOT OF PEOPLE -- A LOT OF THE CHAIRS ARE NOT
OCCUPIED AT THESE DINNER TABLES. THERE ARE THREE DINNER TABLES
WHERE WE DINE.
ONE PERSON WAS INVITED TO ANOTHER TABLE. WHEN SHE
WENT OVER AND SAT DOWN AT THE TABLE, THREE PEOPLE GOT UP AND
MOVED TO ANOTHER TABLE. AND I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS UNCALLED
FOR. I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS VERY HOSTILE.
AND NONE OF THESE PEOPLE EVER TALK TO US ONE ON ONE.
YOU TRY AND HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THEM, BUT I MEAN -- THAT'S
FINE WITH ME. IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T LIKE ME, YOU KNOW, THAT'S
FINE. I WON'T TRY AND TALK TO THEM AND NOT GET IN THEIR WAY.
BUT THERE'S REALLY -- I DON'T SEE WHY SOME PEOPLE
REACT THAT WAY TOWARDS OTHER INDIVIDUALS BECAUSE INDIVIDUALS HERE
HAVE NOT EVER DONE ANYTHING TO HURT ANYBODY ELSE OR PUT ANYBODY
ELSE IN JEOPARDY. THEY JUST HAVE EXPRESSED THEIR OWN PERSONAL
FEELINGS ABOUT HOW THEY ARE FRUSTRATED.
AND THEY REQUEST CONJUGAL VISITS OR WHATEVER THEY
REQUEST, AND OTHER PEOPLE AT THE BEGINNING, THEY WOULD GET REALLY
UPSET BECAUSE SOMEBODY WOULD MAKE A COMPLAINT OR A REQUEST. THEY
THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO GET PUNISHED OR THAT -- OR THEY WERE
GOING TO GET THE GROUP IN TROUBLE OR THEY THOUGHT THE ATTITUDE OF
THE DEPUTIES WAS GOING TO BE HARSH OR SOMEHOW THAT WE WOULD PAY
FOR COMPLAINING OR AIRING A DISAPPOINTMENT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK I CAN DO TO ALLEVIATE THE
SITUATION?
JUROR NO. 1427: THERE'S REALLY -- THE DEPUTIES HAVE PRETTY
MUCH DONE EVERYTHING THEY CAN. THERE'S REALLY NOT MUCH REALLY
THAT CAN BE DONE. IT MAY BE --
THE OUTINGS HAVE REALLY HELPED BECAUSE NOW IT'S
OPTIONAL. FOR EXAMPLE, WE WENT TO A TRACK LAST WEEK. WE WENT
TWICE TO A TRACK. THE FIRST TIME, EVERYBODY HAD TO GO. THE
SECOND TIME, NOT EVERYONE HAD TO GO.
AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO LET PEOPLE STAY IN
THEIR ROOMS, AND THAT WAY, WE'RE SEPARATE AND WE'RE NOT ALWAYS IN
EACH OTHER'S FACES TO WHERE WE HAVE TO CONSTANTLY SEE EACH OTHER
AND I THINK IT HELPS DISSIPATE WHATEVER CONFLICTS THERE ARE. IT
HELPS. IT DOES HELP, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEE THAT SAME PERSON
OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I AM INTERESTED IN THESE
THINGS, PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE AND I AM INTERESTED IN HEARING
ABOUT THEM.
I AM GOING TO ORDER YOU AT THIS POINT NOT TO DISCUSS
WHAT WE HAVE JUST DISCUSSED HERE IN CHAMBERS WITH ANY OF THE
OTHER JURORS. AND IF ANYBODY ASKS YOU, JUST SAY YOU'VE BEEN
ORDERED NOT TO DISCUSS IT, AND THAT SHOULD BE THE END OF THE
TOPIC.
JUROR NO. 1427: JUST ONE MORE THING THAT DOES BOTHER ME
ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR JUROR.
HE -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S MY IMAGINATION, BUT
SYSTEMATICALLY, I SEE HIM -- IT'S VERY -- HOW CAN I SAY THIS?
HE'S VERY -- HE'S ALWAYS LISTENING IN ON OTHER
PEOPLE'S PERSONAL CONVERSATIONS. I MEAN, HE NEVER EXPRESSES
ANYTHING ABOUT HIM OR HIS PERSONAL LIFE.
AND I NOTICE AT THE DINNER TABLE, HE HAS HIS WALKMAN
AT THE DINNER TABLE AND HE HAS HIS HEADPHONES ON. BUT ANOTHER
JUROR POINTED OUT TO ME THERE'S NO CASSETTE IN THAT WALKMAN AND,
YOU KNOW, HE CAN'T HAVE A RADIO IN THE HOTEL.
AND IT JUST IRRITATES ME A LITTLE TO KNOW THAT HE
LISTENS IN ON OTHER PEOPLE'S CONVERSATIONS.
AND I'VE SEEN HIM TRY AND COAX PEOPLE INTO LITTLE
ARGUMENTS. AND THEN WHEN THE THING -- WHEN THE CLAIM STARTS
GOING TOWARDS HIS DIRECTION, HE SAYS, "OH, I AM SORRY IF I
OFFENDED ANYBODY. I DIDN'T MEAN TO DO ANYTHING," AND HE TRIES TO
-- I DON'T KNOW. IT SEEMS LIKE HE LIKES INSTIGATING OR HE LIKES
COAXES PEOPLE AND MAKING THEM UPSET.
AND THE LAST MEETING, THOSE MEETINGS THAT WE WERE
HAVING, I -- I SPOKE UP AND I SAID, "I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE
HAVING THESE MEETINGS."
I REMEMBER HE KEPT STARING AT ME THAT DAY. AND THEN
THE FOLLOWING DAY, HE KEPT ON LOOKING AT ME. HE WAS PRETENDING
TO READ THE NEWSPAPER. HE KEPT ON LOOKING AT ME STARING RIGHT
INTO MY EYES.
AND I FINALLY SAID, "IS SOMETHING THE MATTER? DO YOU
WANT TO TALK TO ME ABOUT SOMETHING? IS SOMETHING WRONG?"
HE DIDN'T SAY A WORD. HE JUST GOT UP, SIGHED
HEAVILY, HE WALKED AROUND MY TABLE, WALKED BACK AROUND MY TABLE
AND WENT BACK AND SAT DOWN TO WHERE HE WAS SITTING. BUT HE
WOULDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO ME.
I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S TRYING TO INTIMIDATE ME. I
DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DEAL IS WITH HIM, BUT I'VE NOTICED HE
SYSTEMATICALLY TRIES TO LOOK AT OTHER PEOPLE'S INFORMATION OR --
THE COURT: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
JUROR NO. 1427: HE JUST --
THE COURT: WHEN YOU SAY, "LOOK AT OTHER PEOPLE'S
INFORMATION"?
JUROR NO. 1427: WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A LIST FOR
CONJUGAL VISITS ON SATURDAY NIGHT. ONE TIME IT WAS SATURDAY --
AND THE LIST IS USUALLY MADE OUT FRIDAY AFTERNOON. I FORGOT TO
PUT DOWN BY VISITOR.
SO I ASKED THE DEPUTY AT THE FRONT DESK, "MAY I
PLEASE HAVE THE LIST SO I CAN WRITE DOWN MY VISITOR?" SO HE GAVE
ME THE LIST AND I WROTE DOWN MY VISITOR. I WAS WALKING AWAY,
WALKING DOWN THE HALLWAY AWAY FROM THE DEPUTY'S DESK.
HE SAW ME PUT THE -- TAKE THE LIST AND WRITE A NAME
DOWN. SO HE -- RIGHT AFTER THAT, HE GOES UP TO THE DEPUTY, HE
SAYS, "OH, CAN I PLEASE SEE THE LIST? I DON'T REMEMBER IF I PUT
MY WIFE DOWN."
HOW CAN YOU NOT REMEMBER YOU DID SOMETHING JUST THE
DAY BEFORE? I JUST THINK -- IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.
AND ALSO, IN THE PHONE ROOM, THEY HAVE A LOG, AND
THEY GO FROM ONE PHONE TO THE NEXT -- THERE ARE FOUR DESKS IN THE
PHONE ROOM, AND YOU CAN SEE -- WHEN THE DEPUTIES WRITE DOWN YOUR
INFORMATION, YOU CAN SEE THE INFORMATION OF THE PEOPLE BEFORE
YOU.
AND IT -- JUST ONE TIME, I WAS THERE USING THE PHONE,
AND HE HAD GOTTEN OFF THE PHONE AND HE SITS THERE IN THE ROOM
WAITING. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS WAITING FOR, BUT HE WAS
SITTING THERE WHILE I WAS CONVERSING.
AND I DON'T KNOW. I JUST FEEL REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE
WHEN HE'S AROUND ME. I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO HIDE SOMETHING
BECAUSE HE'S ALWAYS LISTENING TO OUR CONVERSATIONS OR PRETENDING
TO BE ON THE TELEPHONE WHEN HE'S REALLY LISTENING IN ON WHAT WE
ARE SAYING OR WHAT THE OTHER JURORS ARE SAYING.
IT'S USUALLY -- WE'RE USUALLY TALKING ABOUT PERSONAL
THINGS OR FRUSTRATIONS OF BEING HERE AND HOW HARD IT IS AND, YOU
KNOW, OUR SPOUSES AND PROBLEMS WE HAVE WITH THEM OR WHATEVER, AND
HE NEVER -- HE NEVER TALKS ABOUT HIS PERSONAL THINGS.
AND ALSO, THERE WAS ONE WEEK WHERE HE WOULD SIT AT
THE DINNER TABLE AND NOT SAY ONE WORD FOR THE ENTIRE MEAL,
BREAKFAST, LUNCH AND DINNER, AND WE WERE WONDERING WHAT'S WRONG
WITH THIS GUY, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH HIM. SO WE -- IT'S REALLY
UNCOMFORTABLE BEING AROUND HIM. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SITUATION
IS.
AND THERE WAS ANOTHER THING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP TO MY
ATTENTION THAT REALLY BOTHERED ME. AND THAT IS THAT ANOTHER JUROR
SAW HIM WITH A LIST OF EVERYONE'S JUROR NUMBER WITH THEIR FIRST
AND LAST NAMES, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW HE GOT THAT INFORMATION. AND
THAT REALLY UPSET ME AND THAT REALLY MADE ME EVEN MORE I GUESS
PARANOID ABOUT SAYING THINGS IN FRONT OF HIM.
THE COURT: WHICH JUROR IS THIS WHO TOLD YOU THIS?
JUROR NO. 1427: JUROR 19 SAID HE SAW 602 WITH A LIST OF
OUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES, AND WE -- HE WROTE A LITTLE NOTE TO ONE
OF THE DEPUTIES ABOUT THIS TOO.
THE COURT: OKAY.
JUROR NO. 1427: SO --
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
PUTTING ASIDE THE PROBLEMS WITH 602, HOW'S EVERYTHING
ELSE AT THE HOTEL?
JUROR NO. 1427: THE HOTEL, THE ACCOMMODATIONS ARE FINE.
IT'S JUST PEOPLE USUALLY ARE FRUSTRATED BECAUSE THEY OF COURSE
WOULD LIKE TO BE OUT A LITTLE MORE. AND IT'S JUST --
THE COURT: HOW WAS THE MAGICIAN?
JUROR NO. 1427: HE WAS GREAT. EVERYBODY LOVED HIM. HE
WAS REALLY GOOD.
THE COURT: OKAY. WE'RE TRYING.
WE'RE HAVING SOME EXERCISE EQUIPMENT SENT OVER AND,
YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT ONE LAW CLERK WHO DOES NOTHING BUT ARRANGE
STUFF FOR YOU GUYS.
JUROR NO. 1427: I SEE. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND IT'S REALLY
HARD FOR THE DEPUTIES TO DO THEIR JOB AND HAVE TO SUPERVISE US 24
HOURS. WE'RE VERY LIMITED IN TERMS OF WHAT WE CAN DO. BUT IT'S
JUST --
THE COURT: HOW'S THE TRACK SITUATION WORKING OUT?
JUROR NO. 1427: THAT'S -- EVERYBODY LIKES GOING. MOST OF
THE PEOPLE REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. IT GETS US OUT IN THE OPEN,
YOU KNOW.
THE COURT: OKAY.
ALL RIGHT. 1427 --
MR. COCHRAN, YOU HAD A QUESTION?
MR. COCHRAN: COULD WE APPROACH JUST ONE SECOND?
THE COURT: YES.
MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH YOUR DESK?
THE COURT: SURE. YOU WANT TO WHISPER IN MY EAR?
(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD OUT
OF THE JUROR'S HEARING, NOT
REPORTED.)
(PAGE 18492 REDACTED)
(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD OUT
OF THE HEARING OF THE JUROR,
NOT REPORTED.)
THE COURT: YOU KNOW, AT THESE MEETINGS -- THIS IS WHEN
YOU'VE OVER IN THE DELIBERATIONS ROOM, CORRECT?
JUROR NO. 1427: YES.
THEY'RE NO LONGER TAKING PLACE BECAUSE WE WROTE THAT
LETTER, AND BOTH MYSELF AND ANOTHER JUROR TOLD ONE OF THE
DEPUTIES ABOUT THOSE MEETINGS THAT WERE GOING ON. AND WHILE THEY
WERE -- WHEN THEY TRIED TO HOLD A THIRD MEETING THAT LAST TIME,
ANOTHER JUROR GOT UP AND KNOCKED ON THE DOOR, CALLED OUT A
DEPUTY, AND THAT'S WHEN HE WALKED IN, RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING.
SO HE SAID, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING
HERE, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD BE DISCUSSING ANYTHING,"
AND IT STOPPED.
AND THEN THE FOLLOWING DAY, I THINK IT WAS A TUESDAY,
IS WHEN THEY MADE AN ANNOUNCEMENT -- THE SERGEANT AND ANOTHER
DEPUTY MADE AN ANNOUNCEMENT SAYING, "YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY
DISCUSSIONS. NOTHING LIKE THIS SHOULD BE GOING ON."
THE COURT: OKAY.
JUROR NO. 1427: SO THAT PRETTY MUCH TOOK CARE OF THAT
ISSUE.
THE COURT: SO FAR.
JUROR NO. 1427: YES.
THE COURT: 1427, WE TOOK LONGER THAN I THOUGHT IT WAS
GOING TO. I WAS GOING TO HAVE ONE OR TWO OTHER JURORS COME IN
AND SPEAK TO US, BUT I WANT TO CONCLUDE WITH THE -- AS MUCH AS WE
CAN WITH THE WITNESS TODAY.
BUT JUST SO YOU'LL KNOW, THAT I AM GOING TO
PERIODICALLY OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS BRING IN ALL THE OTHER JURORS
TO SPEAK WITH THEM ABOUT THIS. YOU JUST HAPPENED TO BE THE FIRST
ONE.
JUROR NO. 1427: OKAY.
THE COURT: SO -- BUT I'LL ORDER YOU NOT TO DISCUSS THIS IN
ANY WAY WITH ANYBODY.
JUROR NO. 1427: OKAY.
THE COURT: EXCEPT FOR ME OR FOR THE DEPUTIES IF THEY DO SO
AT MY REQUEST.
JUROR NO. 1427: OKAY.
THE COURT: OKAY?
JUROR NO. 1427: THAT'S FINE.
THE COURT: I HOPE WE CAN MAKE THINGS AT LEAST PALATABLE
FOR YOU.
JUROR NO. 1427: OKAY. THAT IS FINE.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
JUROR NO. 1427: THANK YOU.
(JUROR NO. 1427 EXITS CHAMBERS.)
THE COURT: WE HAVE TO FINISH PROMPTLY AT 3:00. I'M
CONCERNED ABOUT THIS LIST OF NAMES. IF THAT'S TRUE, HE SHOULD
NOT HAVE THAT.
MS. CLARK: CAN WE HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR, BEFORE WE GO
OUT?
****
March 14, 1995
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, MARCH 14, 1995
9:13 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)
(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE
M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN CAMERA:)
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)
(JUROR NO. 353 ENTERS CHAMBERS.)
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: GOOD MORNING.
THE COURT: GOOD MORNING. HAVE A SEAT.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: BECOMING ROUTINE.
THE COURT: YOU ARE GOING TO GET FREQUENT FLYER MILES
PRETTY SOON.
WE ARE IN CHAMBERS WITH JUROR NO. 353.
MR. BAILEY, YOU CAN BE SEATED.
THANK YOU.
NO. 353, THE REASON I CALLED YOU IN THIS TIME IS I
HAVE A LETTER THAT IS DATED MARCH 6TH TO SERGEANT SMITH WHICH HE
CONVEYED TO ME AND IT HAS YOUR JUROR SIGNATURE AT THE BOTTOM
CONCERNING A PROBLEM APPARENTLY WITH NO. 602.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE PROBLEM IS?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF -- I
GUESS IT IS PRETTY PARTICULAR TO 602, BUT I KNOW THE DAY THAT YOU
CALLED ME IN HERE, I HAD ASKED TO LEAVE AND THEY WERE HAVING A --
HE HAS A TENDENCY TO BRING UP THESE PERSONAL KIND OF LET'S CLEAR
THE AIR, GET EVERYTHING OUT IN THE OPEN, AND IT IS REALLY
DISTRESSING TO ME.
AND BEFORE I CAME IN HERE THEY WERE HAVING THAT KIND
OF ARGUMENT AND THEN WHEN I WENT BACK IT WAS CONTINUING, AND WE
ASKED HIM NOT TO DO IT AGAIN.
AND THEN ABOUT A WEEK LATER HE DECIDED TO HAVE
ANOTHER ONE, WHICH I WAS IN NO WAY GOING TO PARTICIPATE IN.
AND I STEPPED -- THEY HAD TOLD ME -- THEY SAID, HEY,
LOOK, IF YOU REALLY NEED TO GET AHOLD OF SOMEBODY, YOU GO AHEAD
OUT IN THE HALLWAY AND GET AHOLD OF ONE OF THE DEPUTIES, SO I DID
THAT AND HE CAME IN AND PUT A STOP TO IT, BUT --
THE COURT: CAN YOU TELL ME THE NATURE OF THESE DISCUSSIONS
THAT ARE GOING ON?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: JUST, YOU KNOW, YOU BUMPED INTO
ME WHEN WE WERE WATCHING T.V., YOU EAT TOO LOUD, YOU TALK TOO
FAST, YOU KNOW, IT IS THOSE REAL PETTY KIND OF -- AND SOME OF IT
JUST DOESN'T NEED TO BE SAID.
I MEAN, WE ARE LIVING REALLY CLOSE TO EACH TOGETHER
AND I JUST HAVE TO KIND OF TOLERATE THINGS I THINK SOMETIMES. I
MEAN THINGS I WOULDN'T NORMALLY TOLERATE IN MY HUSBAND I'M
TOLERATING IN PEOPLE THAT I HARDLY KNOW, BUT I THINK THAT IS
EXPECTED.
THE COURT: PLUS WE ARE ALL ADULTS, TOO.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, YOU KNOW
--
THE COURT: ANY OTHER PROBLEMS? ANY PRIVACY PROBLEMS?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: PRIVACY PROBLEMS?
WELL, NOT PARTICULARLY TO ME BECAUSE I'M -- YOU KNOW,
I WAIT UP UNTIL ELEVEN O'CLOCK TO GO TO BED. WE ARE SUPPOSED TO
BE IN OUR ROOM BY 11:00.
I LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE, I LIKE CONVERSATION, YOU
KNOW, SO NOT WITH ME, BUT I KNOW THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE
WHO -- WELL, PRIVACY PROBLEMS WITH HIM.
HE LIKES TO DELVE INTO, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE'S PERSONAL
THINGS, THINGS THAT --
THE COURT: HOW DOES HE DO THAT?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: HE -- WELL, LIKE OUR CONJUGAL
VISIT NIGHT HE SITS THERE AND KIND OF GOES OVER THE LIST WHO IS
EXPECTING COMPANY, THINGS LIKE THAT. HE WILL ASK YOU QUESTIONS,
BUT HE NEVER HAS A TENDENCY TO RECIPROCATE IN THE CONVERSATION.
YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU DO, WHAT DO I DO. WHAT DO YOU DO, YOU
KNOW.
THE COURT: I MEAN, DO YOU FEEL THAT THIS IS DISRUPTIVE TO
THE HARMONY OF THE JURY AT THIS POINT?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: WELL, I MEAN I DON'T KNOW. I
MEAN I -- IT BOTHERS ME SOMETIMES BECAUSE -- BUT I JUST DON'T
HAVE A TENDENCY -- I JUST DON'T TALK TO HIM OR PEOPLE WHO DIG
INTO MY PERSONAL LIFE TOO MUCH, I KIND OF BACK AWAY, SO IT -- TO
ME IT DOESN'T, BUT YOU KNOW --
THE COURT: ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS GOING ON THAT YOU WANT TO
TELL ME ABOUT?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: WELL, I JUST -- I THINK THERE
IS SOME PETTINESS GOING ON THAT I DON'T LIKE.
THE COURT: SUCH AS? GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: KIND OF, YOU KNOW,
ONE-UP-MAN-SHIP, SO SILLY. I DON'T EVEN LIKE TALKING ABOUT IT IT
IS SO SILLY.
YOU WANT TO WATCH A MOVIE, THERE WILL BE SEVERAL US
OF WATCHING A MOVIE, SOMEBODY WILL BE SITTING IN THERE, WELL, YOU
ARE NOT WATCHING THAT BECAUSE I WANT TO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE.
AND YOU DON'T WANT TO CONFRONT THEM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF
YOU AND THREE OF US, AND SO YOU -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T CARE, I WILL
JUST BACK OFF.
BUT THERE IS A COUPLE OF PEOPLE LIKE THAT, THEY JUST
-- IT IS NOT THAT MAYBE -- YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T EVEN WANT TO
WATCH A MOVIE, JUST THE SHEER FACT THAT HE KNOWS HE CAN
INTIMIDATE.
THE COURT: WHICH JUROR IS THIS?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU? I
DON'T KNOW HIS NUMBER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
WELL, IF IT BECOMES A PROBLEM, LET ME KNOW. I KNOW
THAT IS A COMMON EXPERIENCE, IF THERE IS ONE TELEVISION, THERE IS
ALWAYS --
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: YEAH, THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEBODY
THAT WANTS TO HANDLE THE REMOTE, SO I DEAL WITH THAT ON A DAILY
BASIS AT HOME AND I USUALLY DON'T LET IT BOTHER ME.
THE COURT: THAT IS NOT A BIG DEAL.
ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN? MISS CLARK?
ALL RIGHT. 353, THANKS A LOT.
AND I'M GOING TO ORDER YOU NOT TO DISCUSS WHAT WE
HAVE JUST DISCUSSED HERE.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: I WON'T SAY A WORD.
THE COURT: WHAT I'M DOING IS GOING THROUGH THE JURY A
COUPLE AT A TIME, JUST TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON AND MAKE SURE
EVERYTHING IS OKAY.
ALL RIGHT. DON'T DISCUSS THIS WITH ANYBODY.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: OKAY. I WON'T.
THE COURT: HOW IS THE EXERCISE EQUIPMENT?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: OH, IT IS WONDERFUL. IT IS
REALLY WONDERFUL. I USED IT LAST NIGHT. IT GOT SET UP. IT IS
GREAT. IT HELPS ME I KNOW.
THE COURT: WE ARE WORKING ON A FEW OTHER THINGS, TOO. IT
TAKES TIME AND I'VE HAD TO GET THOSE THINGS DONATED BY THE
MANUFACTURERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. HOW WAS THE MAGICIAN?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: IT WAS FUN. HE WAS GREAT. HE
WAS WONDERFUL. THOSE THINGS REALLY HELP.
I TELL YOU THE ONLY THING WITH ME IS I'M JUST -- MY
EMOTIONS GO LIKE THIS. SOME DAYS I'M GREAT AND WONDERFUL AND
SOME DAYS I JUST MISS MY HOME AND MY FAMILY SO MUCH, SO IT IS
REALLY HARD TRYING TO KEEP --
THE COURT: OKAY. HANG IN THERE.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: I'M TRYING.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 353: BYE, YOU GUYS. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
MR. COCHRAN: SEE YOU AGAIN.
(JUROR NO. 353 EXITS CHAMBERS.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY G, 19, PLEASE.
OFF THE RECORD.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)
(JUROR NO. 19 ENTERS CHAMBERS.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
NO. 19, WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A SEAT THERE, PLEASE. WHY
DON'T YOU ALL BE SEATED.
HOW ARE YOU TODAY?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: DOING OKAY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
THE REASON I'VE BEEN CALLING JURORS IN A COUPLE AT A
TIME IS I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE TWO NOTES THAT YOU HAVE
SENT TO ME REGARDING JUROR NO. 602.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: BASICALLY WHAT I WROTE OUT IN
THE -- WHAT I WROTE OUT IN THE SECOND LETTER TO YOU.
THE COURT: TELL ME ABOUT THESE PRIVACY PROBLEMS.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: OKAY.
LIKE FOR INSTANCE, SOMEBODY HAD TOLD ME THAT HE WAS
TAKING -- HE KEEPS LOOKING AT THE LIST OF OUR VISITORS ON
SATURDAY, SO I WENT UP AND I TOOK A LOOK TO SEE IF HIS NAME WAS
ALREADY ON THE LIST AND HIS I BELIEVE WAS LIKE THE FOURTH NUMBER
ON THE LIST.
AND I SAT DOWN AT THE END OF THE HALL AND I WATCHED
HIM GO IN AND OUT OF HIS ROOM THREE OR FOUR TIMES, PICK IT UP,
LOOK, AND THEN GO BACK TO HIS ROOM.
I HAVE SEEN A NOTE THAT HE WROTE DOWN A LITTLE LIST
OF JUROR NUMBERS AND NEXT TO THAT JUROR NUMBER HE HAS OUR FIRST
AND LAST NAMES.
AND I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT -- I HAVE SEEN THAT.
THE COURT: WHERE DID YOU SEE THAT?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: THE DAY WE WENT ON THE BUS RIDE.
THE COURT: WHICH BUS RIDE?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: THE ONE -- THE ONE -- THE ONE
WHERE THE FREEWAYS WERE BLOCKED OFF.
THE COURT: THE CRIME SCENE VIEW?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: YEAH.
THE COURT: OKAY.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: THE DAY I WAS THE PRESIDENT,
THAT DAY.
THE COURT: ACTUALLY THAT WAS BETTER.
TELL ME ABOUT THIS LIST. WHAT KIND OF PAPER WAS IT
ON. WHERE DID YOU ACTUALLY SEE THIS? ON THE BUS?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: IT WAS ON THE BUS. HE HAD PULLED
OUT -- I WENT TO THE RESTROOM AND HE WAS JUST JOTTING STUFF DOWN
ON IT AND IT WAS ONLY ABOUT YEA BIG, (INDICATING).
THE COURT: MEANING MAYBE SIX INCHES LONG?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: IT WAS LIKE A PIECE OF PAPER
LIKE FOLDED UP LIKE INTO A REGULAR SIZE PIECE OF PAPER THAT WAS
FOLDED UP INTO FOUR PIECES, AND THAT IS WHEN I SAW IT.
HE HAD A LIST THERE, AND HE HAD SOME OF THE LAST --
HE HAS MOST OF THE LAST NAMES ON IT. OTHER THINGS, JUST SIMPLE
LITTLE THINGS.
NOBODY LIKES HAVING HIM AROUND BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT
HE IS UP TO.
THE COURT: WHAT DO YOU THINK HE IS UP TO?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: HE IS TAKING NOTES TO WRITE A
BOOK. THAT IS WHAT I THINK. LIKE WHEN WE GET INTO THE VANS,
EVERYBODY TRIES TO HIDE. 19 OF US TRY AND HOP INTO TWO VANS.
AND THERE HAS BEEN TIMES WHEN HE HAS BEEN IN THE VAN
BY HIMSELF BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO BE AROUND HIM.
WHEN WE ARE AT -- AS FAR AS LIKE DINNERTIME AND STUFF
LIKE THAT, HE IS JUST A REAL NUISANCE. EVERYBODY JUST -- IF THEY
DON'T GO OUTSIDE, WE JUST FILTER INTO ANOTHER TABLE AND SIT AT
ANOTHER TABLE.
A COUPLE TIMES LIKE IN THE ROOM NEXT -- IN THE JURY
ROOM, HE STARTED A COUPLE ARGUMENTS IN THERE BRINGING UP STUFF
ABOUT, WELL, IF THERE IS ANY PROBLEMS, LET'S BRING THEM OUT NOW.
HE IS TRYING LIKE TO LEAD THE WAY INTO SOMETHING AND
THAT REALLY TURNED TO LIKE A REAL FINGER POINTING. IT WAS JUST
LIKE A REAL BIG BITCH SESSION.
AND THAT WAS JUST BEFORE WE WENT INTO COURT AND
EVERYBODY WAS ALL HYPED UP THAT MORNING.
AND ON THE SECOND ONE, ONE OF THE LADIES POPPED HER
HEAD OUT THE WINDOW AND CALLED ONE OF THE DEPUTIES IN TO STOP IT
BECAUSE IT WAS JUST GETTING OUT OF CONTROL.
STUFF LIKE THAT THAT HE DOES, JUST STARTS IRRITATING
PEOPLE.
THE COURT: YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT PHONE
CONVERSATIONS?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: OH, YEAH.
HE SITS IN THE ROOM AND IT IS LIKE HE SITS THERE AND
LIKE IF HE IS WAITING FOR THE PHONE, LIKE THEY MAKE A PHONE LIST.
THERE IS FOUR PHONES IN THE ROOM. THERE IS A LIST THAT EVERYBODY
WRITES DOWN THEIR NUMBER AND THEY CALL IT IN ORDER WHEN THE NEXT
PERSON COMES.
IF HIS NAME IS LIKE THE FOURTH, SIXTH FIFTH OR SIXTH
NUMBER ON THE LIST, IT IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE WHILE, BUT YET HE
WILL SIT IN THERE AND LISTEN. HE WILL SIT IN ONE OF THE OTHER
CHAIRS OR OFF TO THE SIDE AND HE WILL ACT LIKE HE IS DOING
SOMETHING.
THERE HAS BEEN TIMES WHEN HE HAS SAT AT THE TABLE, HE
HAS HAD HIS HEADSET ON. ONE TIME HE DROPPED IT AND THERE WAS NO
TAPE IN IT. WHEN I REACHED DOWN TO PICK IT UP, HE GRABBED IT
BEFORE I DID AND THERE WAS NO TAPE IT IN.
IT IS JUST LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT THAT MAKES YOU
WONDER.
THE COURT: OKAY. BUT YOU DEFINITELY SAW THIS LIST?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: I DEFINITELY -- YEAH, I SAW THE
LIST. I SAW IT, PERSONALLY SAW THAT LIST.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE SAW
THIS LIST?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: UMM, NOT -- NOT THAT I HAVE
SPOKEN TO. WE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT, BUT EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT'S
UP, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ACTUALLY SEEN IT.
THE COURT: OKAY. MR. COCHRAN, DO YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER
INQUIRY?
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I APPROACH THE DESK?
THE COURT: SURE.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)
THE COURT: NO. 19, CAN YOU TELL ME IF THERE IS ANYTHING
ELSE THAT LEADS YOU TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU THINK THIS GUY IS
WRITING A BOOK ABOUT THIS?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: UMM, LITTLE COMMENTS THAT HE
MAKES, LIKE SAYING STUFF ABOUT -- THIS IS LIKE IF SOMETHING WAS
SAID OR DONE, LIKE AT THE TABLE, LIKE JUST AMONGST JUST
OURSELVES, HE WOULD SAY, OH, THAT WOULD BE GOOD TO BE PUT -- THAT
WOULD BE GOOD TO PUT IN A BOOK.
LITTLE STUFF LIKE THERE WILL BE A BOOK THAT WILL --
THAT WILL -- SOMEBODY WAS MENTIONING A BOOK THAT WAS OUT ABOUT --
ABOUT JURORS, BUT IT WASN'T -- IT WAS LIKE -- LIKE A NON -- IT
WAS NOT -- A NON-TRUE BOOK.
THE COURT: FICTION?
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: YEAH, AND HE SAID THERE WILL BE
-- WELL, THERE WILL BE BOOK OUT THAT WILL BE A NON-FICTION BOOK,
LITTLE STUFF LIKE THAT THAT HE SAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, MAKES YOU
THINK THAT WAY.
THE COURT: OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
NO. 19, I'M GOING TO ORDER YOU NOT TO DISCUSS THIS
WITH ANYBODY ELSE. I'M GOING TO PERIODICALLY TALK TO A FEW OTHER
JURORS, AND WE MAY HAVE TO TALK TO YOU AGAIN ONE MORE TIME ON
THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.
BUT I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THIS TO MY ATTENTION.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR.
PROSPECTIVE JUROR NO. 19: THANK YOU FOR HEARING IT.
(JUROR NO. 19 EXITS CHAMBERS.)
(PROCEEDINGS SEALED IN CAMERA,
NOT INCLUDED IN RELEASED
TRANSCRIPT.)
THE COURT: DOES ANYBODY HAVE A POSITION AT THIS POINT AS
TO 602?
MR. COCHRAN: I THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE OTHER
JURORS AND I THINK ALSO, YOUR HONOR, YOU MAY WANT TO ALSO HEAR
>FROM SOME OF THE SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES, TOO. EVERYBODY SEEMS TO
OBSERVE THIS MAN, SO --
MS. CLARK: UH-HUH.
THE COURT: I DON'T KNOW IF I MENTIONED THIS TO YOU, BUT
SERGEANT SMITH COMMUNICATED TO ME EARLIER THIS WEEK THAT 602 HAD
APPROACHED THREE OF THE BAILIFFS AND ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD
KEEP PERSONAL JOURNALS FOR HIM AS TO THEIR EXPERIENCES, WHICH IS
CONSISTENT WITH HIM WANTING TO WRITE A BOOK, WHICH IN AND OF
ITSELF IS NOT MISCONDUCT.
BUT THE POSSESSING A LIST OF THE JUROR'S TRUE NAMES
IS A VIOLATION OF THE ANONYMOUS JURY ORDER, SO THAT -- THAT HAS
ME GREATLY CONCERNED.
AND WE HAVE A WITNESS OR A JUROR WHO HAS BEEN VERY
ADAMANT AND CLEAR THAT HE HAS SEEN THE LIST.
MS. CLARK: THE ONLY THING IS, ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO CALL
EACH OTHER BY NUMBER? I MEAN, THEY ARE --
THE COURT: WELL, THEY MAY EVEN BE FIRST NAMES, BUT TO
COMPILE A LIST IS A VIOLATION OF THE COURT'S ORDERS REGARDING AN
ANONYMOUS JURY.
MR. COCHRAN: IN ADDITION TO THAT, JUDGE, WE HAVE A LITTLE
HISTORY. I MEAN, FROM OUR STANDPOINT, WE NEVER ACCEPTED THAT THE
MAP FROM LOS ANGELES -- AND THE PROBLEM IS, AND I THINK WE SHOULD
HEAR FROM EVERYBODY, IS LIKE EVERYBODY IS OUT OF STEP BUT HIM AND
IT SEEMS TO BE PRETTY UNANIMOUS.
I THINK WE SHOULD LISTEN TO EVERYBODY.
THE COURT: I WANT TO CONTINUE THE INQUIRY AT THIS POINT.
I'M NOT READY TO RENDER ANY JUDGMENT.
I WAS WONDERING IF MAYBE THERE WAS A CONSENSUS, MAYBE
WE COULD CUT THIS SHORT, BUT IF WE AGREE WE WANT TO HEAR A LITTLE
MORE, WE CAN DO THAT, BUT I HAVE HEARD THE OBSERVATION THAT WHEN
THE SHERIFFS ARE TRANSPORTING HE SITS IN ONE VAN AND EVERYBODY
ELSE SITS IN THE OTHER VANS, WHICH IS INDICATIVE OF SOMETHING.
MR. BAILEY: YOU MIGHT CONSIDER THE REQUEST OF THE DEPUTIES
TO SUBCONTRACT.
THE COURT: COULD BE.
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, ONE OTHER OBSERVATION THAT I
THINK IS IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER, AND THAT IS THE COMMENT THAT THE
DISCUSSIONS BECAME SO HEATED TO EVERYBODY THAT THE JURORS HAD A
HARD TIME CONCENTRATING WHEN THEY CAME OUT ONE DAY TO LISTEN TO
THE EVIDENCE.
THE COURT: UH-HUH. YES, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. MOSTLY
CONCERNED ABOUT THAT OTHER COMMENT THAT YOU HAD MADE, MR.
SHAPIRO, TWO WEEKS AGO, ABOUT HIM STARING AT YOUR CLIENT AND THEN
WRITING THINGS DOWN AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
MS. CLARK: HE STARES AT EVERYBODY AND WRITES THINGS DOWN.
I HAVE SEEN HIM DO IT WITH US, TOO.
THE COURT: YES. YOU CAN CALL THAT ONE EITHER WAY.
I AGREE WITH MR. COCHRAN, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE
REST OF THE PEOPLE.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
WE NEED TO GO OUT AND WE NEED TO DISCUSS SOME
PARAMETERS AND A COUPLE OF OTHER MATTERS ON THE RECORD.
OKAY.
MR. DOUGLAS: YOUR HONOR, DO YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THIS --
THE COURT: NO, LET'S -- THAT IS SOMETHING WE CAN DO AT THE
END OF THE DAY.
(AT 9:40 A.M. PROCEEDINGS IN
CAMERA WERE CONCLUDED.)
****
March 15, 1995
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, MARCH 15, 1995
9:10 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)
(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE
M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD
IN CAMERA:)
THE COURT: HOW ABOUT JUROR NO. 1290, PLEASE.
(JUROR NO. 1290 ENTERS CHAMBERS.)
THE BAILIFF: 1290.
THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, 1290. HOW ARE YOU TODAY?
JUROR NO. 1290: FINE, THANK YOU.
THE COURT: GLAD TO SEE WE FINALLY GOT YOU A GOOD SEAT IN
THE COURTROOM RATHER THAN BEING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRAFFIC
PATTERN THERE.
JUROR NO. 1290: YES. MUCH BETTER, THANK YOU.
THE COURT: 1290, THE REASON I CALLED YOU IN IS, A FEW DAYS
AGO, ACTUALLY LAST WEEK, I RECEIVED A LETTER THROUGH SERGEANT
SMITH CONCERNING JUROR NO. 602, AND YOUR JUROR NUMBER IS ONE
SIGNED HERE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LETTER.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AS BEST YOU CAN?
JUROR NO. 1290: WITH HIM SPECIFICALLY?
WELL, HE'S -- HE'S A VERY UNUSUAL MAN, I'LL SAY THAT
RIGHT OFF THE BAT. HE SEEMS TO LIKE TO AGITATE, KEEP THINGS
STIRRED UP. HE SEEMS TO TEMPT, TO CAUSE PROBLEMS BETWEEN OTHER
JURORS. HE DOESN'T LIKE TO BE CHALLENGED OR QUESTIONED OR
OPPOSED, HIS VIEWS OPPOSED. WHEN SOMEONE DOES, HE SEEMS TO TRY
TO RETALIATE, THAT TYPE OF THING.
HE HAS SOME STRANGE PERSONAL HABITS.
THE COURT: SUCH AS?
JUROR NO. 1290: SUCH AS PUTTING HIS FEET UP ON FURNITURE.
AND WE'VE TOLD HIM, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THESE THINGS, AND HE GETS MAD
AND LEAVES AND THEN COMES BACK. HE HAD A HABIT OF GARGLING AT
THE TABLE, YOU KNOW, JUST --
THE COURT: GARGLING?
JUROR NO. 1290: ODD-BALL THINGS, NOTHING --
THE COURT: OKAY.
TELL ME ABOUT THE RIDING ARRANGEMENT IN THE VANS. IS
THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THAT?
JUROR NO. 1290: WELL, I THINK THERE'S -- HE LOOKS AT THEM
-- ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HIM AGAIN OR JUST GENERALLY?
THE COURT: YES.
JUROR NO. 1290: HE'LL LOOK AT EACH VAN AND DECIDE WHETHER
OR NOT HE WANTS TO, YOU KNOW, BE A PART OF THAT GROUP. AND THERE
HAVE BEEN TIMES HE'S RIDDEN IN A VAN BY HIMSELF BECAUSE THEY DO
HAVE THREE VANS, AND HE WILL AVOID THE OTHER TWO. AND I THINK
THERE'S A COUPLE OF JURORS IN PARTICULAR HE'S AVOIDING.
THE COURT: CAN YOU TELL ME, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT HE HAS
DONE THAT YOU FEEL IS AN INVASION OF YOUR PRIVACY, EITHER YOU OR
COLLECTIVELY OF THE OTHER JURORS?
JUROR NO. 1290: WELL, HE'S SAID THINGS ABOUT ANOTHER JUROR
I BELIEVE TRYING TO GET OTHER PEOPLE TO AGREE WITH HIM, KIND OF
SABOTAGE TYPE OF THING.
THE COURT: WHAT TYPES OF THINGS?
JUROR NO. 1290: WELL, IN PARTICULAR, *********, HE'S, YOU
KNOW, TRIED TO CONVINCE THE REST OF US THAT SHE HAS ***********
PROBLEM OR, YOU KNOW, THIS TYPE OF THING, WHICH I SAID IF SHE
DOES, IT'S HER OWN BUSINESS, I DON'T SEE HOW IT RELATES TO
ANYTHING WE'RE DOING HERE. AND HE -- I THINK HE STARTED SOME --
YOU KNOW, THOSE MEETINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WE OBJECTED TO.
THE COURT: HAS THAT CONTINUED SINCE THE BAILIFFS
INTERVENED?
JUROR NO. 1290: NO. IT STOPPED. IT STOPPED AT THAT
POINT. AND I THINK THAT STARTED ORIGINALLY WHEN I WROTE THAT
LETTER ABOUT THE UNIFORMS.
THE COURT: UH-HUH.
JUROR NO. 1290: THAT DAY WHEN WE WENT BACK INTO THE
DELIBERATION ROOM, TWO JURORS JUMPED UP AND ASKED ME WHAT I WROTE
ABOUT, STARTED POINTING FINGERS AT ME. AND SO I TOLD THEM IT WAS
ABOUT THE UNIFORMS, AND THEY GOT REALLY UPSET THAT I HADN'T TAKEN
A CONSENSUS OF EVERYBODY BEFORE I WROTE THE LETTER.
AND THAT SEEMED TO BE WHAT STARTED OFF THESE MEETINGS
IN THAT ROOM, THAT TYPE OF THING. AND THEY'VE BECOME REALLY
VICIOUS. BUT SINCE THE BAILIFF MENTIONED IT, THEY'VE STOPPED.
SO --
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
HAS THAT PRETTY MUCH CALMED DOWN?
JUROR NO. 1290: OH, YEAH.
THE COURT: EVERYTHING SEEM TO BE OKAY NOW?
JUROR NO. 1290: YEAH, IT DOES.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
JUROR NO. 1290: THAT'S --
THE COURT: SO FAR, EVERYBODY'S TOLD ME THE MAGICIAN WAS
PRETTY GOOD.
JUROR NO. 1290: YEAH. HE WAS GREAT.
THERE ARE OTHER PROBLEMS -- I'M SURE YOU HEARD --
OTHER PROBLEMS AT THE HOTEL WITH, YOU KNOW, THE MOVIE SET-UP AND
THE VIDEOS.
THE COURT: DO YOU THINK WE NEED A SECOND VIDEO SET-UP
THERE?
JUROR NO. 1290: WELL, WE HAVE THE TWO ROOMS NOW. UH-HUH.
THE COURT: HAS THAT PRETTY MUCH SOLVED THINGS?
JUROR NO. 1290: WELL, IT REALLY HASN'T.
THE COURT: WHY NOT? YOU WOULD THINK WITH TWO SETS --
JUROR NO. 1290: I KNOW. WOULDN'T YOU THOUGH? BUT I DON'T
KNOW. THERE SEEMS TO BE LIKE A LITTLE POWER PLAY OR CONTEST
GOING ABOUT WHO'S GOING TO SEE WHAT THEY WANT, THIS TYPE OF
THING.
THE COURT: SEE, THE PROBLEM WITH THAT THOUGH IS THAT IF
THAT CONTINUES, THEN I AM GOING TO DECIDE WHAT'S GOING TO BE
SHOWN EVERY NIGHT AND NOBODY WILL HAVE A CHOICE.
JUROR NO. 1290: WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT MIGHT BE BETTER. IT
MIGHT -- IT MIGHT --
THE COURT: I HAVE --
JUROR NO. 1290: I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT IT MIGHT BE AN
IMPROVEMENT.
THE COURT: I HAVE VERY UNUSUAL TASTE.
JUROR NO. 1290: UH-HUH.
THE COURT: I LIKE FOREIGN MOVIES WITH SUBTITLES.
JUROR NO. 1290: A COUPLE OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT
THE T.V. GUIDE, YOU HAVE CERTAIN CHOICES AND THAT'S IT. SO --
THE COURT: OKAY.
ANYTHING ELSE YOU FEEL YOU NEED TO TELL US?
JUROR NO. 1290: WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION ONE INCIDENT
SINCE I'M IN HERE AND HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
JUROR NO. 1290: THAT HAPPENED TO ME PERSONALLY.
AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THERE SEEMED TO BE A COUPLE OR
THREE CAMPS KIND OF DEVELOPING, AND THREE OF US HAPPEN TO BE VERY
OUTSPOKEN, MYSELF, 353 AND 1427, WHICH SEEMS TO BE RESENTED BY A
COUPLE OR THREE OTHER JURORS.
AND SATURDAY NIGHT, WHEN I WENT DOWN TO DINNER --
NOW, SATURDAY NIGHT IS VISITING NIGHT AND PEOPLE ARE GETTING TO
WHERE NOT MANY NECESSARILY GO DOWN TO DINNER. THEY HAVE SOMEBODY
BRING FOOD IN FOR THEM.
AND I WAS THE ONLY PERSON THAT USUALLY SITS AT THE
PARTICULAR TABLE I SIT AT THAT WENT DOWN THAT NIGHT. AND AS I
WAS IN LINE -- YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE BUFFET STYLE -- ONE OF THE
JURORS SAID, "JUROR NO. 1290, WHY DON'T YOU COME AND SIT WITH
US." I SAID, "FINE, I'LL DO THAT."
AND SO I GOT MY PLATE AND WENT AND SAT DOWN, AND
THREE OTHER JURORS GOT UP AND WALKED TO THE THIRD TABLE. AND
WHEN I SAT DOWN, I SAYS, "WELL, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU EVER
WANT TO EMPTY OUT A TABLE, JUST CALL ME OVER," OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT. AND THEY -- MOST OF THEM LAUGHED AT IT AND SAID, "WELL, YOU
KNOW, THEY HAVE A PROBLEM, YOU KNOW. IT'S NOT YOU."
BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A PROBLEM AND PROBABLY THEY
SHOULD SIT OVER THERE ANYWAY. BUT IT WAS REALLY AN ODD FEELING
TO SIT DOWN AND -- BUT IT'S THE SAME PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE THE
PROBLEM WITH THE VIDEOS WITH. I DON'T KNOW. I HATE TO SEE IT
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REASON IS OR WHAT'S BEHIND IT, BUT IT'S
THAT TYPE OF -- THAT TYPE OF FEELING I'M GETTING, YOU KNOW.
THE COURT: OKAY.
JUROR NO. 1290: BUT --
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN, ANY COMMENT?
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I APPROACH?
THE COURT: SURE.
(AN OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION
WAS HELD BETWEEN THE COURT,
MS. CLARK AND MR. COCHRAN.)
THE COURT: CAN YOU TELL ME IF YOU'VE SEEN ANY CONFLICT
BETWEEN NO. 19 AND 602?
JUROR NO. 1290: YES, I HAVE.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THAT?
JUROR NO. 1290: WELL, THERE'S A TENSION BETWEEN THEM. OF
COURSE, THEY'RE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES. BUT THIS ONE
PARTICULAR INCIDENT AT THE TABLE, IT WAS SOMETHING SAID BY 19 AND
1386 THAT APPARENTLY UPSET 602. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT
WAS, BUT 602 SAID, "IF YOU WANT TO MAKE ANY BETS ABOUT ME," YOU
KNOW, "MAKE SURE I'M HERE," SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND 1386 GOT UPSET. SO 19 SAID, "LET'S DISCUSS IT
LATER." 602 SAID, "NO, I'M NOT GOING TO. I DON'T TRUST YOU."
AND THEN 19 GOT UPSET SAYING, "ARE YOU SAYING THERE'S SOMETHING
ABOUT ME OR SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T TRUST?"
AT THAT POINT, I BELIEVE 602 WAS CALLED OUT. ONE OF
THE OTHERS WAS CALLED OUT BY THE DEPUTY BECAUSE THEY SAW A LITTLE
-- VOICES BEING RAISED OR RATHER 19 WAS CALLED OUT BY THE DEPUTY.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS SAID. 602 WAS THEN CALLED OUT BY THE
DEPUTY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS SAID. BUT AFTER THAT POINT, THE
TENSION SEEMED TO BE EVEN WORSE BETWEEN THEM.
AS FAR AS I KNOW, THEY HAVEN'T SPOKEN SINCE THAT
POINT. BUT I REALLY DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.
I JUST SAW THAT SMALL INCIDENT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
CAN YOU TELL ME IN YOUR OPINION WHO WAS CAUSING THE
PROBLEMS REGARDING THE CONTROL OF THE T.V. ROOM?
JUROR NO. 1290: 1489.
THE COURT: YOU MENTIONED THERE WERE THREE PEOPLE OR GROUP
OF THREE?
JUROR NO. 1290: WELL, WHAT THEY'RE DOING -- LET ME GIVE
YOU AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT HAPPENED.
THERE WAS A MOVIE IN THE ONE ROOM THAT 353 AND MYSELF
DIDN'T PERSONALLY WANT TO SEE. SO WE WENT DOWN TO THE OTHER T.V.
ROOM.
1489 WAS SITTING THERE IN THE DARK BY HIMSELF. 353
ASKED HIM WHAT HE WAS GOING TO WATCH. HE SAID, "I DON'T KNOW."
SHE SAID, "WELL, WE WOULD LIKE TO WATCH --" AND I THINK IT WAS
"THE MADNESS OF KING GEORGE." I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE MOVIE
WAS.
HE SAID, "WELL, NO." SO WE LEFT, WENT AND GOT A
DEPUTY, WENT BACK -- WE ASKED HER, YOU KNOW, IF WE COULD PUT ON
"MADNESS OF KING GEORGE." SHE SAID, "HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE DOWN
THERE?" WE SAID ONE.
SO BY THE TIME WE GOT BACK, THERE WAS ANOTHER PERSON
IN THE ROOM WITH 1489. I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO IT WAS AT THE
MOMENT. AND HE SAID THAT HE HAD SIX PEOPLE THAT HAD VOTED TO
WATCH ER.
NOW, THIS HAS HAPPENED THREE OR FOUR TIMES. AND SIX
PEOPLE ARE NEVER IN THE ROOM, YOU KNOW, BUT HE HAS SIX PEOPLE.
IT'S BECOME A SILLY GAME. SO I NEVER PURSUE IT. I JUST SAY
OKAY, AND I'LL GO DO SOMETHING ELSE.
AND THAT'S BEEN THE TYPE OF THING THAT'S BEEN GOING
ON. IT'S 1489, 1233 AND THE OTHER WOMAN, TALL LADY, SITS IN THE
FRONT, I THINK 982. IS THAT A REAL NUMBER? OR 682.
THE COURT: I THINK IT'S 984, BUT THAT'S OKAY.
JUROR NO. 1290: OKAY.
I THINK SHE SITS IN THE FIRST SEAT IN THE BACK ROW.
BUT THE THREE OF THEM IN PARTICULAR, AND THEN I THINK THEY GET
JOINED BY A COUPLE OTHERS TO MAKE UP THEIR SIXTH VOTE, WHO I
THINK JUST KIND OF GO ALONG WITH THAT.
BUT OTHER THAN THOSE FEW PROBLEMS, MOST PEOPLE HERE
ARE REALLY GREAT IN TRYING TO WORK TOGETHER I BELIEVE.
ANOTHER THING -- YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE GOT ME STARTED.
ANOTHER THING 602 DOES, THERE'S TWO EMPTY SEATS AT OUR TABLE NOW
OR RATHER ONE. HE WILL SIT DOWN FIRST BEFORE HE GOES THROUGH THE
LINE, HE'LL SIT ON A SEAT AND PUT HIS FEET UP ON EACH CHAIR
BESIDE HIM.
AND 1427 IS A JUROR HE DISLIKES. HE WILL WAIT TO SEE
WHERE SHE SITS, AND HE WILL MOVE TO THE SEAT FURTHEST FROM HER.
SO THERE WILL BE A SEAT BETWEEN THEM BECAUSE SHE SEEMS TO BE
USUALLY AT THE END OF THE LINE FOR SOME REASON. BUT HE -- HE'LL
DO THAT TO AVOID SITTING NEXT TO HER.
THE COURT: OKAY.
ALL RIGHT. NUMBER 1290, I'M GOING TO ORDER YOU NOT
TO DISCUSS WHAT WE'VE JUST DISCUSSED HERE IN CHAMBERS WITH
ANYBODY ELSE.
JUROR NO. 1290: OKAY.
THE COURT: AND I APPRECIATE YOUR BEING FRANK WITH US ON
THESE MATTERS.
JUROR NO. 1290: ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU.
THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU TAKE YOUR PLACE BACK IN THE JURY
ROOM.
(JUROR NO. 1290 EXITS CHAMBERS.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
CAN I HAVE 2179, PLEASE.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: I MAY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT PICKING SEATS,
WHICH I DON'T WANT TO DO.
MR. COCHRAN: WHEN YOU SAY ASSIGN MOVIES, I THINK IT'S
PROBABLY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.
THE COURT: OR JUST MAKE IT ONE LONG TABLE.
MR. COCHRAN: MIGHT BE ONE WAY OF DOING IT. MAY NOT BE
NECESSARY AFTER WE FINISH HEARING THIS. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A
POSITION REGARDING 602.
MR. SHAPIRO: CAN'T THEY JUST HAVE A LIST OF MOVIES, PICK
WHAT THEY WANT TO WATCH, WATCH A DIFFERENT MOVIE EVERY DAY, WATCH
IT OR --
THE COURT: WHEN WE HAD THAT PROBLEM INITIALLY, I GOT A
SECOND VCR AND A SECOND T.V. SET UP.
(JUROR NO. 2179 ENTERS CHAMBERS.)
THE BAILIFF: 2179.
THE COURT: HI, 2179. WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A SEAT THERE.
GOOD MORNING.
JUROR NO. 2179: GOOD MORNING.
THE COURT: HOW ARE YOU TODAY?
JUROR NO. 2179: OKAY.
THE COURT: GOOD.
2179, THE REASON I ASKED YOU TO COME IN TO CHAT WITH
US IS, LAST WEEK, I GOT A LETTER FROM SERGEANT SMITH THAT WAS
SIGNED BY YOU AS ONE OF THE PEOPLE ON THE LETTER REGARDING SOME
PROBLEMS HERE IN THE DELIBERATION ROOM AND SOME PROBLEMS BACK AT
THE HOTEL, AND IT APPEARS TO INDICATE THAT THERE'S A JUROR WHO IS
CAUSING SOME TENSION OR SOME PROBLEM OR SOME DISCUSSION.
JUROR NO. 2179: YEAH.
THE COURT: TELL ME ABOUT THAT.
JUROR NO. 2179: THEY BRING UP A SUBJECT. YOU KNOW, WE
TOLD HIM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR IT, YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO CONCENTRATE ON ONE THING. AND THEY WANT
TO BRING UP SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED OVER THERE, AND WE SAY IT'S
NOT THE PLACE FOR IT, YOU KNOW, AND EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO
CONCENTRATE, EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO STAY FOCUSED OVER THERE, AND
CERTAIN PEOPLE BRING UP CERTAIN SITUATIONS, GET PEOPLE KIND OF
FIRED UP UNDER THE COLLAR. AND IT'S LIKE THIS IS NOT RIGHT, YOU
KNOW, AND I DON'T WANT TO GO --
WHEN THE DEPUTY CAME IN THERE AND TOLD US, YOU KNOW,
THAT WAS -- THAT WE WAS LIKE, OKAY, FINE. WE ARE GOING TO MAKE
SURE IT DOESN'T COME UP AGAIN. WE WANT TO BE AT EASE WHEN WE'RE
HERE. YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO BE TENSED UP AND PRESSURED BY A
COUPLE OF OTHER JURORS IN THERE WHO'S CAUSING PROBLEMS ALL THE
TIME.
THE COURT: WHEN YOU SAY WHO'S CAUSING PROBLEMS ALL THE
TIME --
JUROR NO. 2179: IT'S A COUPLE OF THEM IN THERE. IT'S JUST
THE WAY THEY REACT TO PEOPLE, YOU KNOW. I BE BENDING OVER
BACKWARDS TO TRY TO GET ALONG WITH THESE PEOPLE, BRUSH THEM OFF.
THEY TRYING TO PUT YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS, YOU KNOW, AND I
REFUSE TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT, YOU KNOW.
THE COURT: TELL ME WHAT DID YOU -- TELL ME SPECIFICALLY
WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS YOU'RE HAVING.
JUROR NO. 2179: WELL, MAINLY, IT'S -- I HATE TO SAY IT,
BUT MAINLY RACIAL ISSUE, YOU KNOW. SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE
PEOPLE FOR THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN. AND I'M NOT LIKE THIS, AND
THEY GET OFFENDED, "WHY YOU TALKING TO THIS PERSON?"
THAT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. SO I'LL REFUSE TO LET THAT
BOTHER ME. BUT THEY DO HAVE -- SOME OF THEM OVER THERE, YOU
KNOW, THEY DO MAKE THEIR LITTLE COMMENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
THE COURT: UH-HUH.
JUROR NO. 2179: BUT IT'S -- YOU KNOW, I GET ALONG WITH ALL
OF THEM FINE. BUT JUST A FEW IN THERE THAT DON'T LIKE THIS
PERSON FOR SOME REASON AND THEY TRY TO MAKE IT -- PRESSURE OTHER
PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, TO JUMP ON THEIR SIDE, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO
DO THAT. WE'RE GOING TO STAY FOCUSED HERE.
I GET ALONG WITH ALL OF THEM AND SOME OF THEM, THEY
JUST MAKE IT HARD, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT HARD. I DON'T EVEN WANT TO
BE BOTHERED.
THE COURT: I HAVE A SPECIFIC COMPLAINT HERE IN FRONT OF ME
ABOUT 602. IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH 602?
JUROR NO. 2179: NO. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH 602.
THE COURT: OKAY.
JUROR NO. 2179: NO.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
ANYTHING ELSE YOU THINK YOU NEED TO TELL US ABOUT?
JUROR NO. 2179: NO. THAT'S ABOUT IT.
THE COURT: IS IT WORKING OUT OKAY FOR YOU?
JUROR NO. 2179: YEAH. I HAVE MY DAYS, YOU KNOW, BUT IT'S
ALL RIGHT. I CAN DEAL WITH IT.
THE COURT: OKAY.
MR. COCHRAN, ANYTHING?
MR. COCHRAN: NO.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK?
MS. CLARK: NO.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
2179, I AM GOING TO ORDER YOU NOT TO DISCUSS WITH ANY
OF THE OTHER JURORS ANYTHING WE TALKED ABOUT HERE TODAY. ALL
RIGHT?
THANKS FOR COMING IN.
JUROR NO. 2179: OKAY.
(JUROR NO. 2179 EXITS CHAMBERS.)
MR. BAILEY: ANYONE ELSE?
THE COURT: NO. THAT'S IT FOR TODAY.
ALL RIGHT.
WHY DON'T YOU ALL BE SEATED.
MR. COCHRAN, YOU SAID YOU MIGHT HAVE A POSITION.
MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: WHAT MIGHT THAT BE?
MR. COCHRAN: WE MOVE THAT 602 BE REMOVED FROM THE JURY FOR
A NUMBER OF REASONS. I WANTED TO HEAR FROM ALL THE PEOPLE WHO
SIGNED THE LETTER.
NUMBER ONE, I THINK THAT IT SEEMS AS THOUGH HE'S A
DISRUPTIVE FORCE. WE HAVE HAD OCCASION TO TALK TO HIM ON TWO
OCCASIONS. FROM OUR STANDPOINT, WE DIDN'T BUY THE MAP. I STILL
DON'T THINK -- THE 105 FREEWAY EXPLANATION NOTWITHSTANDING,
THERE'S NO REASON TO HAVE A MAP FOR LOS ANGELES, AND THE FACT HE
WANTED TO KNOW WHERE HIS WIFE WENT ON A MAP I THOUGHT WAS
BIZARRE.
BUT JUST HIS ATTITUDE, BEING DISRUPTIVE IN THIS JURY
EXACERBATES -- I MEAN WE'VE SEEN HIM ON THE JURY VIEW. HE WAS
ALWAYS OVER WAY BY HIMSELF. MR. SHAPIRO POINTED OUT WEEKS AGO
ABOUT HIS GLOWERING.
THEN WE KNOW THAT HE -- WITH REGARD TO ****, HIS
PARTICULAR FEELING ABOUT HER, THAT HE TRIED TO ENGENDER THE
INDICATION SHE WAS *******, CLAIMED THAT SHE SMELLED LIKE *****
WHEN SHE CAME BACK. APPARENTLY THAT WASN'T TRUE.
HE HAS PROBLEMS WITH THE BAILIFFS. HE COMPLAINS
ABOUT THE BAILIFFS NOT LETTING HIM GO OUT AND RUN. HE SAID HE
WENT OUT AND RAN AND SOMEBODY TRIED TO TRIP HIM, WOULDN'T LET HIM
SWIM.
WITH REGARD TO 19, THEY HAVEN'T EVEN SPOKEN
APPARENTLY SINCE THE INCIDENT. 19 APPARENTLY IS SINGLE AND HE'S
CONCERNED ABOUT WHO 19'S ************* ARE.
WITH REGARD TO -- WE HEARD FROM 353, THE LADY WHO --
353?
THE COURT: YES.
MR. COCHRAN: -- WHO -- WE'VE HEARD FROM 1427, ********,
WE'VE HEARD FROM 353, WE'VE HEARD FROM 19, WE'VE HEARD FROM 2179,
AND THEY'RE ALL VERY ARTICULATE THAT MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE, HE
SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM.
THE FACT OF HIS PUTTING HIS FEET ON THE TABLE, FEET
ON CHAIRS IS UNUSUAL, BUT WHEN HE PUTS FEET ON CHAIRS TO TRY TO
KEEP 1427 FROM SITTING NEXT TO HIM OR GARGLING AT THE TABLE OR
INSTIGATING ALL THESE MEETINGS AND THINGS, IT JUST SEEMS TO ME
THAT THOSE THINGS ARE SO DISRUPTIVE THAT, YOU KNOW --
I THINK THEY'RE TRYING HARD TO STAY IN THIS CASE.
BOTH SIDES NEED A FAIR SHOT. IT SEEMS HE'S A PERSON WHO'S MADE
UP HIS MIND.
PERHAPS THE WORSE THING IS HAVING THOSE JURORS'
NUMBERS AND NAMES AND ASKING THE BAILIFFS -- WE DIDN'T SEE THE
LETTER, BUT YOU MENTIONED TO US HE ASKED THE BAILIFFS TO KEEP A
JOURNAL FOR HIM, AND THEN TWO PEOPLE HAVE NOW SAID THAT HE HAD
HIS HEADSET ON WHERE HE CAN LIKE LISTEN TO THEIR PRIVATE
CONVERSATION, THAT THERE'S NOTHING IN THE WALKMAN. SO THAT'S JUST
APPARENTLY A RUSE SO THAT THEY THINK HE'S OCCUPIED WHILE
LISTENING TO WHAT'S HAPPENING.
SO I THINK FOR ALL THOSE REASONS -- FROM THE DEFENSE
STANDPOINT, WE THINK YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO IT CERTAINLY.
WE'VE HAD MORE THAN ENOUGH. WE HAVE EXCUSED PEOPLE IT SEEMS FOR
LESS. AND I THINK IF THE COURT OBSERVES THIS MAN FOR A PERIOD OF
TIME, HE'S -- HE IS VERY UNUSUAL.
AND THAT IN AND OF ITSELF ISN'T REASON TO KICK
ANYBODY OFF. BUT WHEN THE UNUSUAL TRAITS OF HIS PERSONALITY
INTERFERES WITH EVERYONE ELSE, CAUSES ALL THESE PROBLEMS, I THINK
WE'RE JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE. THE LONGER HE STAYS, IT GETS
EXACERBATED.
AND I DON'T THINK IT HELPS TO PUT THEM ALL AT ONE
TABLE. IF EVERYBODY HATES HIM, HE HATES HALF THE PEOPLE, IT'S
NOT GOING TO HELP TO DO THAT.
YOU CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM WITH THE T.V. LIKE CHILDREN
IF EVERYBODY WANTS TO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE. LIKE IF YOU GO TO A
MOVIE WITH YOUR WIFE, JUDGE -- MY WIFE AND I GO TO A MOVIE ON
SATURDAY NIGHTS AND SHE MAY WANT TO SEE "THE MADNESS OF KING
GEORGE" AND I MAY WANT TO SEE "THE WALKING DEAD." AND WE TRY TO
COMPROMISE. ONE WEEK --
THE COURT: THERE IS NO COMPROMISE BETWEEN THOSE TWO
CHOICES.
MR. COCHRAN: SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A --
THE COURT: YOU WIND UP SEEING "DUMB AND DUMBER."
MR. COCHRAN: WHATEVER IS COMING UP AT THE UNIVERSAL
CENTER.
YOU CAN WORK OUT SOME OF THESE THINGS. BUT 602 SEEMED
TO BE SO INGRAINED AND SUCH A PROBLEM AS I SAID AND YOU GAVE HIM
A CHANCE BEFORE.
SO I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOTALITY OF THE
SITUATION, IF YOU LOOK AT THE BAILIFFS, IF YOU LOOK AT HIS FELLOW
JURORS, YOU LOOK AT WHAT HE'S DONE, THERE'S NO INDICATION THINGS
ARE EVER GOING TO GET ANY BETTER. THEY'RE ONLY GOING TO BE
EXACERBATED. WE FEEL STRONGLY THAT HE SHOULD BE REMOVED AT THIS
POINT.
MR. BAILEY: COULD I ADD ONE SMALL THING AFTER MR. SHAPIRO?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
MS. CLARK: WHAT HAPPENED TO ONE LAWYER?
THE COURT: WELL, THIS IS AN INTERESTING ISSUE.
GO AHEAD.
MR. DARDEN: I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO HEAR FROM THE
BAILIFF.
THE COURT: I WAS JUST LOOKING FOR THE OTHER NOTE.
HERE'S THE NOTE FROM THE BAILIFF.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MR. SHAPIRO CORRECTLY POINTS OUT
THAT HE HAD ORGANIZED THESE MEETINGS ONE DAY WHERE THE JURORS
WERE SO KEYED UP. EVEN THE LAST ONE, THEY WERE SO KEYED UP, IT
CAME OUT THEY WERE HAVING TROUBLE CONCENTRATING.
THIS IS THE KIND OF JUROR, JUDGE, IF YOU LET HIM STAY
ALL THE WAY TO DELIBERATIONS, IT COULD CAUSE A LOT OF PROBLEMS.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DELIBERATE OR WORK IN THAT
CONDITION. AND I THINK LEE WANTS TO TELL ME SOMETHING ALSO.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MR. DARDEN: I THINK THEIR CONTENTION THAT THINGS WON'T GET
ANY BETTER IS CONTRADICTED BY THE TESTIMONY.
MR. COCHRAN: I'M NOT FINISHED YET. I HAVEN'T READ THAT.
MR. DARDEN: DOES THAT MEAN I CAN'T FINISH MY STATEMENT?
MR. COCHRAN: I THOUGHT WE WERE WAITING --
JUDGE, MR. BAILEY CORRECTLY POINTS OUT THE BAILIFF
CAUGHT THE ALTERCATION THIS TIME BETWEEN APPARENTLY 602 AND 19
BEFORE IT CAME TO BLOWS AND STOPPED IT AT THIS TIME. BUT THIS IS
GOING TO BE -- I MEAN, IF WE HAVE THAT KIND OF A SITUATION,
OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A PROBLEM.
AND I THINK EVERYBODY WILL AGREE THIS IS NOT -- THIS
CUTS ACROSS RACIAL LINES. PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT HIM. MOST ARE
CAUCASIAN. IT'S NOT LIKE A RACIAL THING. SO IT SEEMS TO ME --
WE HAVE SEEN THIS NOTE THAT YOU HAVE NOW HANDED US.
602 HAS APPROACHED BAILIFFS ON TWO OCCASIONS ON TWO DIFFERENT
DATES AND SAID HE WAS PLANNING TO WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THE
SITUATION. THE BOOK WILL CONTAIN WHAT HE LEARNED ABOUT THE TRIAL
AND HIS EXPERIENCE BEING SEQUESTERED.
SO THIS MAN IS PREOCCUPIED. I SUPPOSE HE HAS A
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO WRITE A BOOK 90 DAYS AFTER SERVICE. BUT
RIGHT NOW, HE NEEDS TO BE PREOCCUPIED ON THE EVIDENCE AND NOT ON
WHO'S VISITING FELLOW JURORS FOR CONJUGAL VISITS OR ASKING THE
BAILIFFS TO KEEP A LOG OF WHAT HAPPENED OR LISTENING TO
EVERYBODY'S CONVERSATION OR TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO A SIDE ABOUT
CERTAIN THINGS.
AND I GUESS THE BEST THING THAT TELLS US IS THAT --
IF THEY HAVE THREE VANS AND HE RIDES IN ONE VAN BY HIMSELF ON
APPARENTLY MORE THAN ONE OCCASION, I SUPPOSE THAT TELLS YOU A LOT
ABOUT THE SITUATION WE FIND OURSELVES IN.
I THINK CERTAINLY -- WE'VE LOST OTHER JURORS AND WE
HAVE EIGHT ALTERNATES LEFT. I CERTAINLY WANT TO BE ABLE TO
FINISH THIS CASE, BUT I THINK THIS HAS GONE FAR ENOUGH.
CERTAINLY IF YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM HIM ABOUT HIS VERSION OF IT --
BUT I THINK THE EVIDENCE SEEMS TO BE PRETTY OVERWHELMING THAT IF
HE STAYS IN THERE, IT PRESENTS MORE PROBLEMS, AND I MOVE TO
EXCLUDE HIM.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK ON MR. DARDEN.
MR. DARDEN.
MR. DARDEN: I THINK THE EVIDENCE AT THIS POINT, YOU KNOW,
MAY ESTABLISH THAT HE IS SOME FORM OF A JERK. AND WHAT KIND OF A
JERK HE IS, I DON'T KNOW, BUT HE'S DONE NOTHING THAT CONSTITUTES
MISCONDUCT.
THE COURT: WELL, HIS POSSESSION OF A LIST OF THE JURORS'
NAMES AND NUMBERS IS A VIOLATION OF THE COURT'S ORDER AND 90-DAY
RULE AND THAT IS SOMETHING HE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE.
MR. DARDEN: WELL, ARE YOU INCLINED TO DISMISS HIM?
THE COURT: I'M SORRY?
MR. DARDEN: ARE YOU INCLINED TO DISMISS HIM? IS THAT WHAT
YOU WANT TO DO?
THE COURT: WELL, I'M REAL WORRIED ABOUT THE FACT HE HAS
THIS LIST, AND I THINK HE'S OBVIOUSLY -- AND THE FACT THAT HE'S
TALKED TO THE BAILIFFS AND ASKED THEM TO ASSIST HIM IN WRITING
HIS JOURNAL, THAT WORRIES ME GREATLY.
MR. DARDEN: THE ONLY PERSON WHO CLAIMS THAT HE -- WHO
CLAIMS TO HAVE SEEN A LIST IS JUROR 19. OF COURSE, 602 AND JUROR
19 ARE AT ODDS WITH EACH OTHER. THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME ANIMOSITY
BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM. SO WE HAVE NO FIRM EVIDENCE BEYOND
JUROR 19 SAYING THAT SUCH A LIST EVEN EXISTS.
MY CONCERN IS THIS. I DON'T THINK THERE'S SUFFICIENT
CAUSE AT THIS POINT -- THAT'S MY VIEW -- TO RELIEVE THIS JUROR,
TO EXCUSE THIS JUROR. YOU OUGHT TO AT LEAST TALK TO 602. AND IT
MAY VERY WELL BE THAT 602 DOES NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ALL THE
GROUNDRULES ARE, AS I'M SURE A LOT OF THEM DON'T.
AND 602 IN HIS OWN WAY IS DISRUPTIVE, AND THAT'S
PRETTY MUCH APPARENT. SO IS THE JUROR WHO MONOPOLIZES THE T.V.
ROOM. SO IS THE CLIQUE, THE CLIQUE OF JURORS WHO APPARENTLY
DON'T LIKE THE LAST JUROR BECAUSE SHE ASSOCIATES WITH NON-BLACK
JURORS. I MEAN THERE ARE CLICHES THAT HAVE DEVELOPED HERE. ALL OF
THESE CLIQUES I'M SURE ARE DISRUPTIVE AND PROBABLY JUST AS
DISRUPTIVE IN SOME FORM, WHETHER SOME FORM THAT IS MORE SUBTLE.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
I AGREE WITH YOU THAT WE OUGHT TO TALK TO 602, AND I
THINK WE'LL DO THAT TOMORROW. AND LET ME THINK ABOUT THIS. I
DON'T KNOW WHAT MY INCLINATION IS AT THIS TIME. BUT I'VE GOT TO
TELL YOU, MR. DARDEN, THE THING THAT CAUSES ME THE MOST CONCERN
IS THE BUSINESS ABOUT THE JUROR LIST AND THE BUSINESS ABOUT
DISRUPTING THE JURORS OR FIRING THEM UP AS ONE OF THE JURORS JUST
SAID SO THAT WHEN -- AND ONE OF THE JURORS THAT TALKED TO US A
FEW DAYS AGO SAID THEY WENT OUT THERE TO LISTEN TO THE CASE AND
THEY WERE SO RILED UP ABOUT WHAT HAD GONE ON IN THE JURY ROOM,
THAT IT WAS HARD TO CONCENTRATE ON WHAT WAS --
MR. DARDEN: BUT THOSE MEETINGS ARE NO LONGER GOING ON.
THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND.
MR. DARDEN: ALL THE JURORS SAID THE SITUATION NOW IS
BETTER THAN IT WAS BEFORE.
THE COURT: BUT I AGREE WITH YOU WE SHOULD TALK TO 602.
MR. COCHRAN: I THINK YOU SHOULD TALK TO 602.
ALSO, NO. 1427 SAID IN ADDITION TO THAT, **** WAS
OUTSIDE LOOKING AT THE PHONE LOG, AND SHE WATCHED HIM LOOKING AT
THE PHONE LOGS OF WHO WAS CALLING, THAT SORT OF STUFF. THAT IS
BEYOND, YOU KNOW, JUST --
THE COURT: LET ME SEE IF I CAN -- IF ANY OF THE BAILIFFS
CAN CORROBORATE THAT HE COMES DOWN AND LOOKS AT THE VISITORS'
LOGS SEVERAL TIMES.
MR. DARDEN: THEY'RE JUST SCARED HIS BOOK IS GOING TO COME
OUT BEFORE THEIRS.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: WE WILL NOT RESPOND TO SUCH COMMENTS, JUDGE.
MR. DARDEN: NOT TODAY?
MR. COCHRAN: NO. I'LL DO IT AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME.
THE COURT: OKAY.
LET'S GO DO SOME BUSINESS.
MS. CLARK: WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE COURT BEFORE THE JURY
COMES OUT.
THE COURT: HOW SURPRISED I AM TO HEAR THAT.
MS. CLARK: I KNEW YOU WOULD BE.
(AT 9:45 A.M., IN CAMERA
PROCEEDINGS WERE CONCLUDED.)
****
March 16, 1995
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, MARCH 16, 1995
9:10 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)
(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE
M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD
IN CAMERA:)
THE COURT: LET'S GO ON THE RECORD.
WE ARE IN CHAMBERS WITH ALL COUNSEL, AND WE ARE GOING
TO FIRST START WITH AN INQUIRY OF JUROR NO. 602.
DEPUTY MAGNERA, CAN WE HAVE JUROR 602.
(JUROR NO. 602 ENTERS CHAMBERS.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
GOOD MORNING, NO. 602. HAVE A SEAT, PLEASE.
JUROR NO. 602: GOOD MORNING.
THE COURT: NO. 602, THE REASON I'VE ASKED YOU IN HERE,
WE'VE HAD OTHER ISSUES COME UP THAT I NEED TO ASK YOU SOME
QUESTIONS ON. AND BEFORE I DO, I WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT YOU'RE
UNDER OATH, THE OATH THAT YOU GAVE TO US OR TOOK WHEN YOU AGREED
TO ANSWER QUESTIONS REGARDING YOUR QUALIFICATIONS TO SERVE AS A
JUROR.
JUROR NO. 602: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: IT HAS BEEN REPORTED TO ME THAT YOU HAVE
COMPILED A LIST OF THE NAMES OF THE JURORS IN THIS CASE. IS THAT
TRUE?
JUROR NO. 602: I DIDN'T COMPILE THEM, BUT I HAVE A LIST OF
-- I HAVE SOME NAMES OF THE JURORS.
THE COURT: WHY HAVE YOU DONE THAT?
JUROR NO. 602: NO REASON. A LADY THAT HAD THE LIST GAVE
IT TO ME AND SHE SAID, "ARE THESE NAMES RIGHT?"
THE COURT: WHO GAVE THE LIST TO YOU?
JUROR NO. 602: I DON'T REMEMBER HER NUMBER. SHE'S GONE
NOW.
THE COURT: WAS SHE ONE OF THE JURORS WHO HAS PREVIOUSLY
BEEN DISMISSED?
JUROR NO. 602: THAT'S CORRECT.
THE COURT: THIS WASN'T YOUR LIST, THIS WAS SOMETHING
SOMEBODY SHOWED TO YOU?
JUROR NO. 602: THAT'S CORRECT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
IT'S BEEN REPORTED TO ME THAT -- I HAVE TALKED TO
THREE OF THE BAILIFFS, AND YOU HAVE INDICATED TO THEM THAT YOU
WERE WRITING A BOOK ON THIS CASE; IS THAT CORRECT?
JUROR NO. 602: NO. I SAID I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
YOU INDICATED TO THEM THAT -- YOU'VE ASKED THEM TO
KEEP JOURNALS IN THIS CASE OR KEEP A LOG OF EVENTS?
JUROR NO. 602: I DON'T -- I SAID THAT -- THAT I WAS
THINKING ABOUT DOING THAT, BUT --
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
DID YOU MAKE MENTION TO THEM THAT THE NEWSPAPER, THE
DAILY JOURNAL, WAS GOING TO ASSIST YOU IN WRITING A BOOK ON THIS
CASE?
JUROR NO. 602: THE DAILY JOURNAL?
THE COURT: DAILY JOURNAL.
JUROR NO. 602: NO, SIR. I HAVEN'T REALLY MADE UP MY MIND
YET AND I CERTAINLY HAVEN'T TALKED TO ANYONE ABOUT IT EXCEPT JUST
IN PASSING, I THINK IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO WRITE A BOOK ABOUT
IT.
THE COURT: UH-HUH.
I'VE RECEIVED COMPLAINTS FROM A NUMBER OF JURORS THAT
YOU HAVE TAKEN AN UNUSUAL INTEREST IN THE CONJUGAL VISIT LIST,
THAT YOU HAVE MADE -- GONE OUT OF YOUR WAY TO EXAMINE THAT LIST
AND TO GET FROM THAT LIST THE NAMES OF THE VISITORS.
JUROR NO. 602: NO, SIR. THAT'S NOT TRUE.
THE COURT: IT'S BEEN REPORTED TO ME THAT ON ONE OCCASION
REGARDING ONE VISITATION PERIOD, THAT YOU EXAMINED THE VISITATION
LIST ON FOUR OCCASIONS.
JUROR NO. 602: NO, SIR.
THE COURT: DO YOU KNOW OF ANY REASON WHY YOU WOULD NEED TO
LOOK AT THAT LIST MORE THAN ONCE?
JUROR NO. 602: NO. WELL, YES, SIR. I THINK I DID LOOK AT
IT TWICE ON ONE OCCASION TO MAKE SURE THAT MY WIFE WAS ON THERE.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
DO YOU RECALL WHEN WE STARTED THIS CASE, THE DAY
AFTER YOU WERE SEQUESTERED, YOU ASKED THE COURT FOR PERMISSION TO
USE A PERSONAL NOTEBOOK COMPUTER?
JUROR NO. 602: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: IS THERE ANY INFORMATION ON THAT COMPUTER THAT
RELATES TO THIS CASE?
JUROR NO. 602: NO, SIR. I SIGNED AN AFFIDAVIT TO THAT
EFFECT.
THE COURT: WOULD YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO MY HAVING
ANOTHER JUDGE TAKE YOUR COMPUTER AND CHECK THE DATABASE AND MAKE
SURE THERE'S NOTHING THERE?
JUROR NO. 602: NOT AT ALL.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
OKAY.
JUROR NO. 602: THE ONLY THING I USE THAT FOR IS TO PLAY
CHESS AND TO RUN MY CD ROM, WHICH RIGHT NOW, I SENT IT BACK WITH
MY WIFE BECAUSE IT CRASHED.
THE COURT: ARE THERE ANY NECESSARY PASSWORDS?
JUROR NO. 602: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: WHAT ARE THOSE?
JUROR NO. 602: ********.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NOT TOO TOUGH TO FIGURE THAT ONE
OUT.
ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN, ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS?
MR. COCHRAN: NOT AT THIS POINT, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK?
MS. CLARK: NO.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
NO. 602, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT
ANY OF THESE THINGS? YOU KNOW THE PROCEDURE WE'RE GOING THROUGH.
JUROR NO. 602: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: BECAUSE OF THIS COMPLAINT.
JUROR NO. 602: PARDON ME?
THE COURT: WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS ONE COMPLAINT OR ONE
ISSUE BEFORE. SO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT I HAVE TO LOOK INTO EACH
ONE OF THESE THINGS.
JUROR NO. 602: YES, SIR. AND I APPRECIATE YOUR DOING THAT
BECAUSE I WANT TO BE AS TRUTHFUL AND STRAIGHTFORWARD AS POSSIBLE.
THERE HAS BEEN SOME PEOPLE THAT ASKED ME ABOUT MY
WIFE'S AGE, WHICH I DIDN'T THINK WAS A BIG DEAL, BUT THEY HAD
INDICATED AMONG THEMSELVES THAT THEY HAD CHECKED EITHER THE PHONE
LIST OR THE VISITATION LIST TO GET MY WIFE'S AGE. AND IF ANYONE
IS CHECKING A LIST, THERE ARE PEOPLE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY AREN'T
--
AND I COMPLAINED A COUPLE TIMES, THAT A DEPUTY
SITTING OVER AT ANOTHER TABLE SAID, "WHO ARE YOU CALLING," AND I
HAD IT ON A PIECE OF PAPER, AND I SAID, "I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP
THIS SECRET BETWEEN US," AND HE SAID, "OH, YEAH, I GUESS YOU'RE
RIGHT."
SO THE LISTS ARE READILY AVAILABLE FOR EVERYONE TO
SEE. I WOULD LIKE TO REMAIN COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS IN THIS CASE
AND I'M TRYING MY BEST TO DO THAT, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT LOOK
AT THE LIST.
AND A COMMENT WAS MADE AT THE DINNER TABLE ABOUT MY
WIFE'S AGE. SHE'S VERY SENSITIVE ABOUT HER AGE, AND I TRY TO BE
POLITE WITHOUT SAYING, "IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS." SO ALL I
SAID WAS, "WELL, SHE'S OLDER THAN ME," AND SOMEONE MADE THE
COMMENT, "WELL, SHE COULDN'T BE BECAUSE I SAW THE LIST."
THE COURT: WHO MADE THAT COMMENT TO YOU?
JUROR NO. 602: ONE OF THE LADIES -- MY MOUTH IS AWFULLY
DRY. ONE OF THE LADIES AT THE TABLE. I THINK IT WAS EITHER 353
OR THE BLOND -- THE ELDERLY BLOND THAT I DON'T KNOW HER NAME.
THE COURT: ELDERLY BLOND. OKAY.
JUROR NO. 602: YOU HAD HER IN HERE YESTERDAY I THINK.
MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: SURE.
(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD BETWEEN
MR. COCHRAN, MS. CLARK AND THE COURT.)
THE COURT: THIS JURY NAME LIST, YOU INDICATED ONE OF THE
JURORS WHO HAS SINCE DEPARTED SHOWED YOU THIS LIST?
JUROR NO. 602: YES.
THE COURT: AND WHERE WAS THIS?
JUROR NO. 602: SHE HAD IT -- I THINK IT WAS THE LINEUP FOR
US TO COME TO A MEAL OR SOMETHING. WE LINE UP IN THE HALLWAY,
AND SHE SAID, "ARE THESE NAMES RIGHT?"
AND MY NAME HAS -- HAPPENS TO BE THE SAME NAME OF
SOMEONE ELSE ON THE JURY, AND I SAID, "I WISH YOU WOULD SCRATCH
THAT OUT AND JUST PUT THESE INITIALS THERE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT
MY NAME ON ANY LIST."
THE COURT: SO YOU NEVER HAD ANY LIST OF THE JURORS IN YOUR
POSSESSION; IT WAS JUST SHOWN TO YOU?
JUROR NO. 602: SHE GAVE IT TO ME TO CORRECT IT AND I GAVE
IT BACK TO HER. I TOLD HER -- I SAID, "I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD
HAVE THAT."
THE COURT: WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE JUROR? I MEAN, DO YOU
REMEMBER WHICH ONE IT WAS?
JUROR NO. 602: JUROR 2017 WAS HER NAME. I DON'T KNOW
ANYONE'S LAST NAME, BUT THE JURORS CALL EACH OTHER BY NAME.
THE COURT: BY FIRST NAME?
JUROR NO. 602: I HAVE A HARD TIME REMEMBERING NAMES.
THE COURT: OKAY.
ALL RIGHT. NO. 602, AS BEFORE, I'M GOING TO ORDER
YOU NOT TO DISCUSS WHAT WE'VE DISCUSSED HERE WITH ANY OF THE
OTHER JURORS. ALL RIGHT?
JUROR NO. 602: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU SIR.
JUROR NO. 602: THANK YOU.
(JUROR NO. 602 EXITS CHAMBERS.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
HAVE A SEAT. THANK YOU.
I'M GOING TO HAVE DEPUTY MAGNERA SNAG THE COMPUTER
THAT'S OVER AT THE HOTEL.
MR. DARDEN: ARE YOU GOING TO SEARCH FOR THE LIST?
THE COURT: NO. I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT HE WOULD KEEP THAT ON
A HARD COPY, AND I'M SURE IT'S EITHER IN THE COMPUTER OR LONG
GONE.
MR. BAILEY: DO YOU KNOW WHO JUROR 2017 IS, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: YEAH. SHE WAS THE SHORT WHITE FEMALE, SHORT
BLOND HAIR, SECRETARY, THE ONE WHOSE DOCTOR WAS THE SAME AS --
MR. BAILEY: THE SCOTCH LADY.
THE COURT: YEAH.
ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT?
I WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE COMPUTER BEFORE WE DO
ANYTHING ELSE. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE GUY'S WITH US. HE'S NOT
GOING ANYWHERE AND HE'S NOT POISONING ANYBODY BECAUSE NOBODY
WANTS TO TALK TO HIM. SO I DON'T FEEL COMPELLED TO DO SOMETHING
RIGHT NOW.
ALL RIGHT.
ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE NEED TO DO ABOUT THAT?
ALL RIGHT.
****
March 17, 1995
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, MARCH 17, 1995
9:45 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)
(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE
M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD
IN CAMERA:)
THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN CHAMBERS. WE'RE HERE
MEETING WITH COUNSEL IN CHAMBERS REGARDING THE PROBLEM THAT WE
HAVE HAD REGARDING JUROR 602.
YESTERDAY, IN OUR INQUIRY WITH 602, I ASKED FOR AND
RECEIVED FROM HIM PERMISSION TO INSPECT HIS LAP-TOP COMPUTER.
THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT DELIVERED TO ME THE LAP-TOP COMPUTER IN
ITS CASE, AND IT WAS THE COURT'S INTENTION TO CHECK THE HARD
DRIVE AND ANY FLOPPY DISK FOR ANY CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION
REGARDING THE IDENTITY OF OUR ANONYMOUS AND SEQUESTERED JURY.
IN THE BOX THAT CONTAINED THE FLOPPY DISKS, THE
COURT FOUND A PIECE OF PAPER THAT IS APPROXIMATELY FOUR BY SIX
INCHES WHICH IS RULED AND APPEARS TO BE A TYPE OF NOTEBOOK PAPER
THAT INCLUDES NAMES AND NUMBERS OF OUR JURORS AND DOES INCLUDE
SOME LAST NAMES AS WELL.
AND THIS IS DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO WHAT JUROR 602 TOLD
US ON THE RECORD YESTERDAY, THAT HE DID NOT HAVE SUCH A LIST IN
HIS POSSESSION AND THAT A LIST HAD BEEN SHOWN TO HIM, BUT WAS NOT
IN HIS POSSESSION. AND THE COURT FINDS THIS STATEMENT TO HAVE
BEEN NOT TRUE AND THAT THIS LIST, WHICH I HAVE SHOWN TO COUNSEL
OFF THE RECORD, IS A LIST OF OUR JURORS IN THIS CASE.
I AM GOING TO -- IS THERE ANY COUNSEL WHO WISH TO BE
HEARD AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THIS JUROR SHOULD BE EXCUSED?
MR. COCHRAN: I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR HE SHOULD BE
EXCUSED, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: PEOPLE?
MS. CLARK: YES.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
DEPUTY MAGNERA --
COUNSEL, I'M GOING TO SERVE HIM WITH A COPY OF THE
ORDER THAT I HAVE DISPLAYED TO YOU AND I AM ALSO GOING TO
ADMONISH HIM THAT I THINK HE WAS NOT CANDID WITH US ON THE RECORD
AND MAY HAVE COMMITTED A FELONY CRIME.
THANK YOU, GUYS.
LET'S HAVE 602, PLEASE.
(JUROR NO. 602 ENTERS CHAMBERS.)
THE COURT: 602, HAVE A SEAT, PLEASE.
602, WHEN I LOOKED IN YOUR COMPUTER, IN THE FLOPPY
DISK BOX, THERE'S A LIST WHICH APPEARS TO HAVE NAMES OF JURORS.
JUROR NO. 602: YOU'RE RIGHT. I THOUGHT I THREW IT AWAY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
NO. 602, I'M GOING TO DISCHARGE YOU AS A MEMBER OF
THIS JURY. I'M GOING TO ORDER YOU NOT TO REVEAL TO ANYBODY THE
IDENTITY OF ANY MEMBER OF THE JURY OR ANY OF THE ALTERNATES. I
AM GOING TO ORDER YOU NOT TO REVEAL TO ANYONE THE NAME OR
LOCATION OF THE FACILITY WHERE THE JURORS ARE SEQUESTERED.
I'M GOING TO ADMONISH YOU PURSUANT TO PENAL CODE
SECTION 116.5 THAT IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE LAW TO ACCEPT OR
AGREE TO ACCEPT ANY PAYMENT OR BENEFIT IN CONSIDERATION FOR
SUPPLYING ANY INFORMATION IN RELATION TO THIS CASE PRIOR TO OR
WITHIN 90 DAYS OF THE DISCHARGE OF THE JURY.
I'M ALSO GOING TO WARN YOU THAT IT APPEARS THAT THE
STATEMENT YOU MADE TO ME YESTERDAY ON YOUR OATH AS A JUROR WAS
NOT CORRECT AND I MAY BE REFERRING THIS MATTER TO ANOTHER AGENCY
TO INVESTIGATE.
ALL RIGHT. YOU ARE DISCHARGED, SIR.
THE COURT: LET ME GIVE YOU A COPY OF THE ORDER SO YOU
UNDERSTAND IT CLEARLY.
JUROR NO. 602: I APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE.
(JUROR NO. 602 EXITS CHAMBERS.)
THE COURT: HAVE A NICE DAY.
IN THE COMPUTER CASE, THERE IS A NOTEBOOK, WHICH I
WILL HAVE MY STAFF EXAMINE CLOSELY TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY
IDENTIFYING INFORMATION IN THAT. AND IF THERE IS NONE, THEN I
WILL HAVE IT RETURNED TO THE JUROR.
OKAY.
(IN CAMERA PROCEEDINGS WERE
CONCLUDED.)
