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Subject: TRANSCRIPT - 3/16/95 - 204k
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LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, MARCH 16, 1995
9:34 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)
(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE
M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(PAGES 19019 THROUGH 19035,
VOLUME 108A, TRANSCRIBED AND
SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, COUNSEL.
BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER.
MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT WITH
HIS COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS, MR. BAILEY.
THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK, MR. DARDEN AND MISS
LEWIS.
THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT.
AND BEFORE WE BEGIN THIS MORNING'S SESSION, THE COURT
WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE PERSONAL OPPORTUNITY TO WISH A HAPPY
BIRTHDAY TO RUTH ARCHIE WHO IS ONE OF OUR REGULAR AUDIENCE AND ON
HER BIRTHDAY TODAY.
ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, IS THERE ANYTHING WE NEED TO PUT
ON THE RECORD BEFORE WE JOIN THE JURY AGAIN?
MR. BAILEY.
MR. BAILEY: YESTERDAY THERE WAS A QUESTION RAISED AS TO
WHETHER OR NOT I HAD SPOKEN PERSONALLY TO A WITNESS NAMED MAX
CORDOBA, AND THAT QUESTION AROSE FROM A MISTAKE MR. CORDOBA MADE
WHEN BEING QUESTIONED ON DATELINE.
NBC YESTERDAY, AT VARIOUS TIMES DURING THE DAY, AND
DATELINE ITSELF LAST NIGHT CORRECTED THAT MISSTATEMENT. THEY
FOUND MR. CORDOBA IN PHOENIX AND HE RECALLED THAT BRIEFLY WHILE
MR. MC KENNA WAS INTERVIEWING HIM ABOUT THE FACTS OF THE CASE
THAT I HAD SPOKEN WITH HIM ABOUT HIS APPEARANCE.
AND I WOULD SIMPLY LIKE, BECAUSE THE PRIOR VERSION IS
NOW A PART OF THIS CASE TO A DEGREE, TO SHOW THE COURT, WHO I
GATHER HAS NOT SEEN IT, AND THE RECORD, THAT SUCH EVENT TOOK
PLACE, IF I MAY.
THE COURT: YOU MAY.
MR. BAILEY: MR. HARRIS.
THIS IS FROM LAST NIGHT'S DATELINE AND I PERSONALLY
TAPED IT.
THE COURT: I TAKE IT THERE IS NO FOUNDATIONAL OBJECTION?
MS. CLARK: NO.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MR. BAILEY: WELL, MR. HARRIS HASN'T LOCATED THE SPOT.
PERHAPS THAT FACT IS SUFFICIENTLY NOTORIOUS SO THAT
IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PLAYED, THE RETRACTION, SO TO SPEAK, BY --
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
WELL, MR. BAILEY, I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU THE
OPPORTUNITY.
MR. BAILEY: I APPRECIATE THAT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO HOLD UP
THE JURY ANY MORE THAN WE HAVE.
I WILL SIMPLY MAKE THAT ASSERTION, I TAKE IT, FROM
LOOK OF ANY CONTRADICTION, THAT AT LEAST SOME MEMBERS OF THE
PROSECUTION ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE CHANGE IN POSITION BY THE
WITNESS.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT.
MISS CLARK, ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE PROCEED WITH THE
JURY?
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY, MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: IS THERE ANY OTHER COMMENT ON THE RECORD BEFORE
WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US?
MS. CLARK: I WOULD ONLY INDICATE, YOUR HONOR, THAT IN VIEW
OF THE MORE RECENT STATEMENT OF MR. CORDOBA TO WHICH MR. BAILEY
REFERS, AND I'M FAMILIAR WITH IT, THE REAL ISSUE IS MR. CORDOBA'S
CREDIBILITY, AND I THINK WE SHOULD TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THAT AND
GET ON WITH THIS IN A PROFESSIONAL MANNER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
IT WOULD THRILL ME TO DEATH IF COUNSEL WOULD
APOLOGIZE TO EACH OTHER FOR THE RATHER HIGH LEVEL OF VITRIOL
YESTERDAY.
MS. CLARK: ALTHOUGH I CANNOT SAY, YOUR HONOR, THAT,
SUBSTANTIALLY SPEAKING, THE RECORD -- THE EVIDENCE AND THE
INFORMATION WE HAD DID NOT SUPPORT THE FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF THAT WE
HAVE A WITNESS HERE WHO IS NOT TO BE BELIEVED, WHO HAS NO
CREDIBILITY, I DO --
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, FORGIVE ME FOR INTERRUPTING YOU,
BUT GIVEN THE STATE OF THE RECORD AS WE KNOW IT TODAY, GIVEN THE
LEVEL OF THE COMMENTS YESTERDAY, WHICH WERE NOT APPROPRIATE, I
THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO BEGIN THIS SESSION BY BOTH SIDES
ACKNOWLEDGING GOING BEYOND THE BOUNDS OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT IN
THE HEAT OF BATTLE, I UNDERSTAND, AND THAT WE ALL AGREE TO
CONDUCT OURSELVES PROFESSIONALLY TODAY AND I ONLY ASK THAT OF YOU
FIRST BECAUSE YOU ARE STANDING AND TALKING TO ME.
I'M GOING TO ASK THE SAME OF MR. BAILEY AS SOON AS I
HEAR FROM YOU.
MS. CLARK: AND I DO. NO, NO. I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR.
I'M NOT GOING TO BE FACETIOUS. I DO MEAN THAT. I REALLY I DON'T
LIKE TO ENGAGE IN THAT SORT OF EXCHANGE. I THINK IT IS -- I
THINK IT IS UNSEEMLY AND I THINK IT IS BAD FOR THE ENTIRE
PROFESSION.
AND I DO EXTEND TO MR. BAILEY MY APOLOGY FOR THE --
THE EXTREME NATURE OF THE EXCHANGE YESTERDAY. I DON'T ANTICIPATE
THAT HAPPENING AGAIN.
AND I THINK THAT WE WILL ALL, FROM THIS DAY FORWARD,
CONDUCT OURSELVES AS PROFESSIONALS, SEASONED PROFESSIONALS THAT
WE ALL ARE.
THE COURT: THANK YOU, MISS CLARK.
MR. BAILEY.
MR. BAILEY: I, WITHOUT HESITATION, APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT I
HAVE FOUND IS AN UNWARRANTED COMMENT DIRECTED AT MISS CLARK AND
THAT WAS THAT HER EYESIGHT AND MEMORY WERE DEFICIENT. VERY
PLAINLY THAT WAS UNFAIR SINCE HER EYESIGHT IS EXCELLENT AND HER
MEMORY HAS PROVEN TO BE THE SAME.
MY MOST PROFOUND APOLOGY IS DIRECTED AT THE COURT. I
HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR FORTY YEARS AND I WAS CAUGHT OFF GUARD
WITH THAT ACCUSATION AND MY REACTION WAS CERTAINLY LESS RETRAINED
AND LESS PROFESSIONAL THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
AND THE THING THAT PAINS ME BOTH IS ANY CRITICISM
THAT HAS BEEN DIRECTED BY THE COURT BECAUSE OF MY CONDUCT. IN MY
VIEW YOU ARE ONE OF THE FINEST TRIAL JUDGES I HAVE EVER THE HAD
PRIVILEGE TO APPEAR BEFORE AND I THINK THAT CRITICISM IS
UNWARRANTED, BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT I CAUSED IT, I DO APOLOGIZE.
THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL.
MS. CLARK: MAY I JOIN IN THAT, YOUR HONOR.
I WAS NOT AWARE OF CRITICISM BEING LEVELED AT THE
COURT. IF THAT IS THE CASE, I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS
OPPORTUNITY TO INDICATE THAT WE FROM THE PROSECUTION DO NOT SHARE
IN THAT VIEW AT ALL.
WE EXTEND OUR MOST SINCERE APOLOGIES FOR ANY ILL
REACTION THAT WAS CAUSED BY OUR CONDUCT YESTERDAY TO THE COURT.
IT WAS CERTAINLY UNWARRANTED, UNFAIR AND UNJUSTIFIED.
THE COURT: WELL, COUNSEL, I APPRECIATE THAT THOUGHT;
HOWEVER, THAT IS WHY I GET PAID THE BIG BUCKS.
ALL RIGHT. LET'S PROCEED.
DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS.
MR. DARDEN: AS WE AWAIT THE JURORS, SO THAT THE RECORD IS
CLEAR, THE PEOPLE DO NOT INTEND TO CALL MAX CORDOBA. HE IS OFF
OUR WITNESS LIST AS FAR AS WE ARE CONCERNED.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
PLEASE BE SEATED.
ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU RESUME THE
WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.
MARK FUHRMAN,
THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT,
RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:
THE COURT: LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT THE JURY HAS NOW
JOINED US, ALL OF OUR MEMBERS.
THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN IS AGAIN ON THE WITNESS STAND
UNDER CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BAILEY.
GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.
THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: DETECTIVE, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER
OATH.
MR. BAILEY, YOU MAY CONCLUDE YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION.
MR. BAILEY: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)
BY MR. BAILEY:
Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, DO YOU RECALL YESTERDAY WHEN I
INDICATED A CERTAIN AREA OF THE AUDIENCE AND ASKED YOU IF YOU SAW
ANYONE THERE THAT YOU KNEW.
DO YOU RECALL THAT?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND DID YOU SEE ANYONE THAT YOU KNEW?
A THAT I KNEW?
Q YESTERDAY?
A I KNOW PEOPLE, YES, IN THE AUDIENCE.
YESTERDAY?
Q SOMEONE THAT WAS CONNECTED WITH THE PREPARATION OF
YOUR TESTIMONY?
A NO. I DIDN'T RECALL, NO.
Q DID YOU SEE ANYONE WHEN YOU LOOKED OUT YESTERDAY, NOT
HERE TODAY, WHO IS CONNECTED WITH THE PREPARATION OF YOUR
TESTIMONY?
A NO, SIR.
Q YOU DID NOT?
A NO.
Q DO YOU KNOW A DR. MARK GOLDSTON?
MS. CLARK: ASKED AND ANSWERED.
THE COURT: THAT IS A DIFFERENT NAME THAN I HEARD
YESTERDAY.
THE COURT: EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. OBJECTIONS?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
THE COURT: ITEM 4.
MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY. OBJECTION.
THE COURT: I HEARD A DIFFERENT NAME. OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: I KNOW A MARK. I DON'T RECALL A MR.
GOLDSTEIN.
Q BY MR. BAILEY: GOLDSTON AS I GET IT?
A I STILL DON'T, SIR.
Q WHO IS MARK?
A I BELIEVE HE IS A DOCTOR.
Q PSYCHIATRIST, IS HE?
A UMM, I'M NOT SURE IF HE IS A PSYCHOLOGIST OR A
PSYCHIATRIST.
Q OKAY. UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE YOU SEEN HIM?
A I HAVE SEEN HIM IN THE D.A.'S OFFICE.
Q WAS HE PRESENT DURING THE GRAND JURY SESSION?
A NO. I DON'T RECALL HIM BEING THERE, NO.
Q HAS HE TALKED WITH YOU AT ALL ABOUT BEING A WITNESS?
A NO.
Q YOU HAVE NEVER HAD ANY CONVERSATION WITH HIM?
A YES.
Q WHAT HAVE YOU TALKED ABOUT?
A WE DIDN'T TALK. HE JUST SAID YOU ARE DOING A GOOD
JOB, KEEP IT UP.
Q DID YOU TALK TO HIM BEFORE YOU TESTIFIED?
A NO, NOT AT ALL.
Q AND HE HAS HAD NO CONVERSATION WITH YOU AT ALL ABOUT
THE MANNER OF YOUR TESTIMONY, EXCEPT SOME WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT
AFTER THE FACT?
IS THAT THE WAY YOU LEAVE IT?
A YES, SIR.
Q DID YOU RECOGNIZE HIM WHEN I POINTED TO HIM YESTERDAY
SITTING NEXT TO --
THE COURT: ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
Q BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU SEE ME POINT YESTERDAY IN
THIS DIRECTION, (INDICATING)?
A I BELIEVE YOU POINTED, YES, SIR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
INDICATING THE BACK ROW OF THE SEATS RESERVED FOR
COUNSEL AND THE AUDIENCE.
MR. BAILEY: WELL, USING MR. MC GINNIS AS
A LANDMINE, I BELIEVE THE MAN SITTING NEXT TO
MR. JOE MC GINNIS, THAT IS WHERE I WAS POINTING.
MR. MC GINNIS IS THE GENTLEMAN WITH HIS HAND UP, THE
TALL GENTLEMAN WITH THE GRAY HAIR.
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
Q BY MR. BAILEY: WAS MARK GOLDSTON SITTING THERE WHEN
I ASKED YOU THE QUESTION?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: I DID NOT NOTICE HIM, NO.
Q BY MR. BAILEY: YOU DIDN'T NOTICE HIM?
A NO.
Q HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN THIS MAN, DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN?
A FOUR OR FIVE TIMES.
Q OKAY.
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, HOW DID YOU CALL IN THE LICENSE
PLATE OF THE VEHICLE THAT TURNED OUT TO BE KAELIN'S ON THE
MORNING OF THE 13TH?
A POLICE RADIO.
Q IS THAT CALLED A ROVER?
A YES, SIR.
Q IS THAT SOMETHING YOU CARRY ON YOUR BELT?
A NO. YOU COULD, BUT IN PLAIN CLOTHES IT IS VERY
DIFFICULT, SO YOU USUALLY JUST TAKE IT OUT OF THE CAR AND HOLD
IT.
Q OKAY. DID YOU HAVE IT WITH YOU THAT MORNING?
A AT DIFFERENT TIMES I DID, YES.
Q ALL RIGHT.
DID YOU HAVE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE IN TALKING TO
KATO IN HIS BUNGALOW?
A I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.
Q DID YOU HAVE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE OUT TO LOOK
FOR THE SOURCE OF THE NOISE?
A NO.
Q DID YOU HAVE ANY COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT WITH YOU
AT THAT TIME?
A NO.
MR. BAILEY: OKAY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
Q BY MR. BAILEY: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, IS THERE A POLICE
RADIO CODE WHERE CERTAIN WORDS ARE USED TO INDICATE LETTERS OF
THE ALPHABET AS THERE IS IN AVIATION IN THE MILITARY, FOR
INSTANCE?
A YES, SIR.
Q WHAT IS THE POLICE WORD FOR "N"?
A NORA.
Q "V"?
A VICTOR.
Q "N"?
A NORA.
Q "H"?
A HENRY.
Q "I"?
A PUT ME ON THE SPOT. IT IS IDAHO IN THE MILITARY.
I'M HAVING A --
IDA.
Q OKAY. DOES "NVN" HAVE A MEANING TO YOU?
A NO, SIR.
Q DO YOU USE THAT ON THE RADIO AT ALL?
A NO, SIR.
Q I MEAN THE PHONETIC LETTERS, NORA, ET CETERA?
A OH, THE PHONETICS, IF I'M RUNNING A LICENSE PLATE,
SUCH AS THAT?
Q NO, NO. YOU SAID "V" WAS REPRESENTED BY?
A VICTOR.
Q ALL RIGHT.
DO YOU EVER USE THE TERM NORA VICTOR NORA WHEN
TALKING TO OTHER OFFICERS ON THE RADIO?
A WHY WOULD I DO THAT?
Q DO YOU EVER USE THE TERM NORA VICTOR NORA TALKING TO
OFFICERS ON THE RADIO?
A NO, SIR.
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
MR. BAILEY: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE, YOUR HONOR, UNTIL THE OTHER
MATTERS ARE SETTLED.
THE COURT: REDIRECT. MISS CLARK.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MR. DARDEN: CAN WE HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, I'M GOING TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION
TO YOUR STATE OF MIND AND KNOWLEDGE AT THE TIME YOU STEPPED OUT
THE FRONT DOOR AT ROCKINGHAM, AND BY THAT I MEAN AFTER YOU PLACED
KATO KAELIN AT THE BAR AND THEN WALKED OUT THE FRONT DOOR TO GO
OUT TO THE SOUTH PATHWAY.
AT THAT TIME, SIR, THE FIRST TIME YOU WALKED OUT TO
THE SOUTH PATHWAY AT 360 SOUTH ROCKINGHAM, DID YOU KNOW THE TIME
OF DEATH FOR RON GOLDMAN AND NICOLE BROWN?
A NO, MA'AM.
Q DID YOU KNOW WHETHER MR. SIMPSON HAD AN ALIBI FOR THE
TIME OF THEIR MURDERS?
A NO.
Q DID YOU KNOW WHETHER THERE WERE ANY EYEWITNESSES TO
THEIR MURDERS?
A NO.
Q DID YOU KNOW WHETHER ANYONE HAD HEARD VOICES OR ANY
SOUNDS OR ANY WORDS SPOKEN AT THE CRIME SCENE AT THE TIME OF
THEIR MURDERS?
A NO, MA'AM.
Q DID YOU KNOW WHETHER KATO HAD ALREADY GONE UP THE
SOUTH WALKWAY BEFORE YOU GOT THERE?
A NO.
Q DID YOU KNOW WHETHER ANY FIBERS FROM THE BRONCO WOULD
BE FOUND ON THAT GLOVE THAT YOU ULTIMATELY FOUND AT ROCKINGHAM?
A NO.
Q AND DID YOU KNOW THE CAUSE OF DEATH?
A NO.
MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MR. BAILEY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MR. BAILEY: NOTHING, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, I'M GOING TO RELEASE YOU FROM
FURTHER TESTIMONY TODAY; HOWEVER, YOU ARE STILL SUBJECT TO
RECALL.
YOU ARE ORDERED NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH
ANYBODY EXCEPT YOUR OWN ATTORNEY AND THE ATTORNEYS FROM BOTH
SIDES OR THEIR INVESTIGATORS.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDER, SIR?
THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU ARE EXCUSED, SIR.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK -- I'M SORRY.
MS. CLARK: MAY WE HAVE 72 HOURS ON CALL FOR DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN?
THE COURT: HOW ABOUT 48?
MS. CLARK: HE IS FAR AWAY.
MS. LEWIS: DETECTIVE, WAIT A SECOND.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE, PART OF THE COURT'S
ORDER IS YOU AGREE TO RETURN WITHIN 72 HOURS OF BEING NOTIFIED.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDER?
THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: AND YOU WILL GIVE THE COURT PLENTY OF NOTICE.
MS. CLARK: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NEXT WITNESS.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
THE PEOPLE CALL LIEUTENANT SPANGLER.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MR. DARDEN: I WILL HAVE TO CALL FOR HIM, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: PLEASE DO.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: ON THE WAY, MR. DARDEN?
MR. DARDEN: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: THERE IS A CAMERA THAT IS ABOUT TO GO OUT OF
THE COURTROOM.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
FRANK SPANGLER,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS
FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE
IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH,
THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
THE WITNESS: I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND
STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: MY FIRST NAME IS FRANK. MY LAST NAME IS
SPANGLER. THAT IS S-P-A-N-G-L-E-R.
THE CLERK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q SIR, CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING.
A I'M THE COMMANDING OFFICER OF WEST LOS ANGELES
DETECTIVE DIVISION. I'M A LIEUTENANT OF POLICE FOR THE LOS
ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT.
Q AND WERE YOU SO EMPLOYED ON THE DATE OF JUNE THE
13TH, 1994?
A YES, I WAS.
Q AND DID YOU RESPOND TO THE SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY
ON THAT DATE, SIR?
A YES, I DID.
Q AT SOME POINT BETWEEN 2:30 AND 3:00 A.M. DO YOU
RECALL GOING TO AN AREA OF THE CRIME SCENE WHERE YOU WERE ABLE TO
LOOK THROUGH A FENCE AND AT THE BODY OF RON GOLDMAN AND NICOLE
BROWN?
A YES, I DO.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, COULD YOU PLEASE CUT THE FEED.
THIS IS PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 46.
MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR,
SIR.
THE WITNESS: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE LOCATION SHOWN IN
THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND WHAT IS THE LOCATION?
A THE LOCATION IS 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
Q DO YOU SEE THE AREA THAT I INDICATED EARLIER, A
WALKWAY ALONG THE NORTH SIDE OF THE FENCE OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY
WHERE YOU WALKED?
A YES, I DO.
Q CAN YOU PLEASE DIRECT --
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO WATCH THE
ARROW, DIRECT THE ARROW TO THE LOCATION WHERE YOU WALKED.
A HOW DO I DO THAT?
Q ALONG THE NORTH SIDE.
YOU ARE GOING TO SEE IT IN A MINUTE.
A OKAY. DID YOU WANT ME TO --
Q TELL THE ARROW WHERE TO GO.
A MOVE IT TO THE WEST -- NO, THAT IS NORTH. THAT IS
SOUTH. VERTICALLY ON THE SCREEN.
Q THERE WE GO.
A THAT WOULD BE THE GENERAL AREA UP IN THERE, IN THE
SHADOW OF WHERE THAT TREE IS.
Q ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.
A THERE IS A CONCRETE WALKWAY UP IN THERE.
MS. CLARK: CAN YOU PLEASE MARK THAT AND THE INITIALS.
ASK THAT THIS BE MARKED PEOPLE'S -- WE HAVE SO MANY
LETTERS AFTER THE NUMBERS, I HAVE TO CATCH UP.
MS. CLARK: 46-B.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 46-B.
(PEO'S 46-B FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
MS. CLARK: WE ARE PRINTING.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO.
43-E. THE FEED WILL NEED TO REMAIN CUT.
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR CAN
YOU PLEASE LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR.
CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE THE LOCATION YOU
HAVE DESCRIBED TO US IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES, I DO.
Q THE FENCE THAT IS SHOWN BEHIND THE BODY OF RON
GOLDMAN, CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS THE FENCE THAT
YOU WALKED UP AND LOOKED THROUGH BEHIND WHICH THERE IS THAT
CONCRETE WALKWAY YOU INDICATED?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU STOOD IN RELATIONSHIP TO
THE BODY OF RON GOLDMAN?
A I WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE FENCE
LOOKING THROUGH THE FENCE AND ABOUT PARALLEL WITH WHERE HIS
PANT'S LINE WOULD BE ON HIS BACK.
Q AND WHEN YOU MADE THIS OBSERVATION, SIR, WHO WERE YOU
WITH?
A INITIALLY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q RON PHILLIPS?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND DID SOMETHING DRAW YOUR ATTENTION, IN PARTICULAR,
AS YOU LOOKED AT THE BODY OF RON GOLDMAN FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF
THE FENCE, THE NORTH SIDE OF THAT FENCE?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND WHAT WAS THAT?
A I COULD SEE AN INJURY ON HIS LOWER BACK, APPEARED TO
BE ON THE LEFT SIDE THE WAY HE WAS LAYING.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: OKAY.
I'M GOING TO ASK YOU AGAIN TO TRY AND DIRECT THE
ARROW TO THE FENCE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BEHIND WHICH YOU
STOOD.
A TAKE IT UP TO THE FENCE ITSELF. YOU SEE THAT DARK
BAND BEHIND THE FENCE? ABOUT IN THERE, (INDICATING).
NOW, I STOOD FURTHER DOWN TO WHERE IT LOOKS LIKE
THERE MIGHT BE A TREE TRUNK DOWN IN THAT AREA, ABOUT RIGHT IN
THERE, (INDICATING).
MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IF WE COULD MARK THAT.
OKAY.
Q YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT FENCE,
SIR?
A YES, MA'AM.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 43-E SUB 1.
THE COURT: SO MARKED.
(PEO'S 43-E(1) FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
MS. CLARK: NEVER MIND.
THE COURT: NEVER MIND.
MS. CLARK: WE CAN'T MAKE IT 43-F BECAUSE 43-F IS ANOTHER
PHOTOGRAPH.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. E SUB (1).
MS. CLARK: SUB (1).
THE COURT: BUT THEY WILL BE PROVIDED TO THE JURY IN ORDER?
MS. CLARK: YES.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AFTER YOU EXAMINED -- AFTER YOU MADE
THAT OBSERVATION, SIR, FROM THAT LOCATION WITH DETECTIVE
PHILLIPS, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A I WALKED BACK OUT INTO THE STREET ON BUNDY, WALKED
OVER TO WHAT WOULD BE THE EAST CURB, DOWN NEAR DOROTHY, AND I HAD
A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q NOW, THE WOUND THAT YOU SAW ON THE BODY OF RON
GOLDMAN, SIR, DID YOU FORM SOME OPINION AS TO THE NATURE OF THAT
WOUND?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND WHAT WAS THAT?
A IT LOOKED LIKE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A GUNSHOT WOUND TO
ME.
Q NOW, YOU WERE TALKING ONLY ABOUT THE WOUND ON THE
BACK; IS THAT IT?
A YES, MA'AM.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 51.
Q BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. SIR.
DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE INTERSECTION SHOWN ON THIS
PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND WHAT IS IT?
A DOROTHY AND BUNDY.
Q OKAY. CAN YOU TELL US WHICH STREET IS BUNDY?
A YOU SEE THE SIGN WITH THE CURVING -- THE STREET SIGN
WITH THE CURVE ON IT?
Q YES.
A THAT STREET WOULD BE BUNDY AND DOROTHY WOULD BE THE
STREET THAT THE BLUE CAR IS SORT OF TURNED AROUND ON THERE.
Q OKAY.
SO YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WALKED BACK OUT FROM THAT
NORTH GATE AREA WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND YOU WENT TO THE EAST
SIDE OF BUNDY. WOULD THAT BE THE SIDE OF BUNDY INDICATED BY THAT
YELLOW SIGN WITH THE CURVING ARROW?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q YOU SPOKE TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FOR A WHILE?
A YES, I DID.
Q AT SOME POINT DID YOU SEE DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND DID HE COME OVER TO YOU?
A YES.
Q DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND AFTER YOU HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH -- WELL,
WHAT DID YOU SHARE WITH HIM? WHAT INFORMATION?
A I HAD DISCUSSED THE INJURY THAT I HAD SEEN TO THE
MALE'S -- THE MALE VICTIM'S BODY AND INDICATED THAT, IN MY
OPINION, IT COULD POSSIBLY BE A GUNSHOT WOUND.
Q OKAY. JUST THE ONE THAT YOU SAW ON THE BACK?
A YES. AND --
Q I'M SORRY.
A THEN I ASKED HIM TO ACCOMPANY ME OVER TO LOOK AT IT.
Q SO WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A HE ACCOMPANIED ME OVER. WE WALKED BACK INTO THE
PATHWAY THE EXACT SAME WAY THAT I HAD BEEN THERE EARLIER AND
SHINED A LIGHT ON THE VICTIM AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN LOOKED AT THE
INJURY.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU WALK ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE SAME POSITION
YOU HAD BEEN IN EARLIER BEHIND THE NORTH GATE, THE NORTH FENCE,
WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
A DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS IN FRONT OF ME, SO I WAS A FEW
FEET FURTHER EAST THAN I WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST TIME, BUT WE
WERE THERE TOGETHER, YES, MA'AM.
Q OKAY.
AND DID YOU SEE HIM WALK TO THE SAME LOCATION YOU HAD
GONE TO?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND WHAT DID HE DO IN THAT LOCATION, SIR?
A HE SHINED HIS LIGHT ONTO THE MALE VICTIM'S BACK AND
-- ILLUMINATING THE AREA OF THE INJURY THAT HE OBSERVED, LOOKED
AT IT FOR A FEW MOMENTS AND WALKED BACK WITH ME BACK OUT INTO THE
STREET AT BUNDY AND EXPRESSED HIS OPINION THAT THAT DID NOT LOOK
LIKE A GUNSHOT WOUND TO HIM, THAT IT LOOKED LIKE POSSIBLY A CUT.
Q HE SAID POSSIBLY A CUT?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
NOW, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE HIS HAND AS HE WALKED TO
THE NORTH GATE AREA WHERE YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN WITH DETECTIVE
PHILLIPS AND WALKED BACK OUT?
A YES, I COULD.
Q WHAT WAS IN HIS HANDS, SIR?
A A FLASHLIGHT.
Q ANYTHING ELSE?
A NO, MA'AM.
Q DID HE LEAVE YOUR SIGHT AT ANY POINT WHEN HE WENT TO
THE NORTH GATE AREA -- NORTH FENCE AREA, EXAMINED RON GOLDMAN AND
CAME BACK TO YOU?
A NO, MA'AM.
Q AND AT THAT POINT, WHEN YOU BOTH CAME BACK OUT, WHERE
DID YOU STAND?
A WE WALKED BACK OVER TO THE EAST CURB OF BUNDY JUST
NORTH OF DOROTHY.
Q AT THAT POINT, SIR -- DO YOU RECALL WHAT KIND OF
FLASHLIGHT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD WITH HIM THAT NIGHT?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q WHAT KIND WAS IT?
A A BLACK PEN LIGHT.
MS. CLARK: MAY I SEE --
THE COURT: MRS. ROBERTSON.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS
DEFENSE EXHIBIT 1055, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT I'M SHOWING YOU, SIR?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q WHAT IS THAT?
A IT IS A MAG-LITE.
Q AND HOW DOES THAT COMPARE IN SIMILARITY TO THE
FLASHLIGHT THAT WAS CARRIED BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN ON THE NIGHT OR
EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE THE 13TH, 1994?
A IT LOOKS TO BE THE SAME TO ME.
Q AFTER THAT POINT, SIR, DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN RE-ENTER
THE CRIME SCENE?
A NO, MA'AM.
Q HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
A I STOOD ON THE EAST SIDE OF BUNDY JUST NORTH OF
DOROTHY UNTIL THE ARRIVAL OF ROBBERY/HOMICIDE AND NO ONE WENT
BACK INTO THAT CRIME SCENE.
MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: PLEASE.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MR. BAILEY.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. BAILEY:
Q LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE THERE
THAT NIGHT?
A I BELIEVE I ARRIVED APPROXIMATELY 2:30 IN THE
MORNING, SIR.
Q OKAY.
SO YOU WERE THERE RATHER SHORTLY AFTER DETECTIVES
FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS ARRIVED AT 2:10?
A THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING, YES.
Q AND DID YOU LEARN SOON AFTER YOUR ARRIVAL ABOUT THEIR
HAVING ARRIVED AT 2:10?
A I DON'T BELIEVE I MADE THAT INQUIRY AT THE TIME, BUT
THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING, YES, SIR.
Q WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING YOU REMEMBER AFTER ARRIVING
AT THE SCENE?
A TALKING TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q OKAY. WHERE WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
A DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS STANDING TO THE REAR OF 875
SOUTH BUNDY IN THE ALLEYWAY.
Q OKAY. AND WHERE WERE YOU?
A I HAD WALKED AROUND TO THE ALLEYWAY AND MET DETECTIVE
PHILLIPS AND TALKED TO HIM, SIR.
Q OKAY.
CAN YOU TELL US WHERE YOU WENT AFTER YOUR ARRIVAL,
WHAT YOU LOOKED AT?
A YES, SIR.
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, THIS IS BEYOND THE SCOPE.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND SERGEANT ROSSI SPOKE
TO ME BRIEFLY AND THEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ESCORTED ME INTO THE
CONDOMINIUM VIA THE REAR GARAGE.
Q BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU VIEW THE CRIME SCENE FROM THE
STEPS, FRONT STEPS?
A I STAYED INSIDE THE CONDOMINIUM. I DID NOT GO
OUTSIDE ONTO ANY STEPS, SIR.
Q OKAY. DID YOU EVER ENTER THE CRIME SCENE FROM BUNDY?
A YES, I DID, SIR.
Q WHEN WAS THAT?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, AFTER TAKING ME THROUGH THE
INTERIOR OF THE CONDOMINIUM AND SHOWING ME SOME THINGS FROM THE
DOORWAY, TOOK ME BACK VIA DOROTHY TO THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION
AND HE ILLUMINATED A PATHWAY THROUGH SOME PLANTS THAT WERE JUST
SOUTH OF THE SIDEWALK WHERE THE FEMALE VICTIM WAS LYING AND WE
APPROACHED IT FROM THAT POSITION, SIR.
Q OKAY. CAN YOU RECALL WHAT YOU DID AFTER THAT?
A YES, SIR. WE WALKED BACK OUT INTO THE STREET OF
BUNDY AND WALKED NORTH TO THE PATHWAY THAT I DESCRIBED AND WALKED
IN AND LOOKED AT THE BODY OF THE MALE VICTIM FROM THAT
PERSPECTIVE, SIR.
Q THAT WAS AT WHAT TIME?
A I ARRIVED AT 2:30 AND BY 2:50 WE HAD MADE ALL THOSE
OBSERVATIONS, SO OVER A PERIOD OF TWENTY MINUTES WE WERE IN THE
CONDOMINIUM, OUT AT THE FRONT AND BACK OVER ON THE EAST CURB OF
BUNDY.
Q AND BY 2:50 YOU HAD BEEN UP TO THE BODY, NOTICED WHAT
YOU THOUGHT WAS A GUNSHOT WOUND AND GONE BACK AND DONE THE SAME
WITH FUHRMAN, CORRECT?
A NO, SIR. FUHRMAN -- THE TIME THAT I WENT UP WITH
FUHRMAN WAS A FEW MINUTES LATER, SIR.
Q HOW MANY?
A I WOULD ESTIMATE JUST AFTER 3:00 IN THE MORNING,
MAYBE 3:05 MAX.
Q AS I UNDERSTOOD IT, YOU CAME BACK WITH PHILLIPS TO
THE CORNER?
A YES, YES, SIR.
Q SPOKE TO FUHRMAN AND THEN TURN HIM UP TO LOOK AT THE
WOUND?
A I'M SORRY?
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS GO LOOK AT
THE WOUND?
A THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT 2:45.
Q OKAY.
AND HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED BETWEEN THE VIEWING WITH
PHILLIPS AND THE VIEWING WITH FUHRMAN?
A TEN, FIFTEEN MINUTES.
Q AND WHY WAS THAT?
A I DIDN'T HEAR THE QUESTION, SIR.
Q I UNDERSTOOD FROM YOUR DIRECT TESTIMONY THAT YOU
WALKED DOWN, TOLD FUHRMAN WHAT YOU HAD SEEN AND TOOK HIM BACK
WITHOUT ANY BREAK?
A NO, SIR.
Q DID SOMETHING HAPPEN IN BETWEEN?
A NO, SIR. FUHRMAN WALKED OVER TO ME. FUHRMAN WALKED
>FROM AROUND BACK BEHIND THE CONDOMINIUM OUT TO MY LOCATION ON
BUNDY AND THEN WE HAD OUR DISCUSSION.
I HAD DISCUSSED MY OBSERVATIONS WITH HIM AND THEN I
WALKED OVER WITH HIM. THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME WHEN I WAS
STANDING OUT ON BUNDY BY MYSELF BECAUSE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD
GONE TO GET DETECTIVE ROBERTS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.
Q OKAY.
WHAT DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN SAY TO YOU WHEN HE FIRST
ENCOUNTERED YOU ON THAT OCCASION?
A I DON'T BELIEVE -- THAT IS NOT THE SEQUENCE THAT IT
OCCURRED. I WAS SPEAKING AND I ASKED HIM; HE DIDN'T ASK ME.
Q DID HE SAY ANYTHING TO YOU, OTHER THAN "SURE"
RESPOND?
A YES. HE SAID "SURE." WHEN I ASKED HIM TO WALK OVER
WITH ME HE SAID "SURE."
Q WHAT I'M ASKING, LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, IS WHETHER OR
NOT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN SAID ANYTHING UNRELATED TO THE ALLEGED
WOUND IN THE BODY TO YOU ABOUT THE CASE AT THAT TIME?
A NO, SIR, HE DID NOT.
Q DID NOT.
MADE NO COMMENT?
A NO, SIR.
Q OKAY.
DO YOU KNOW AT WHAT POINT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS
WRITING HIS NOTES? IN OTHER WORDS, WAS IT BEFORE OR AFTER, IF
YOU KNOW, YOU TOOK HIM UP TO LOOK AT THE WOUND?
A I DO NOT RECALL SEEING HIM WRITING ANY NOTES, SIR.
Q WELL, HE HAS TESTIFIED THAT HE WROTE NOTES IN THE
HOUSE. WERE YOU AWARE OF THAT?
A HE WAS NOT IN THE HOUSE WITH ME, SIR.
Q OKAY. WAS HE IN THE HOUSE AFTER YOU WERE THERE AT
ANY TIME?
A I NEVER SAW HIM IN THE HOUSE.
Q WHEN HE WALKED UP TO YOU AND PHILLIPS, FOLLOWING YOUR
OBSERVATION OF MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY, WHERE WAS HE COMING FROM?
A I LATER LEARNED FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS THAT HE HAD
BEEN INSIDE THE HOUSE, SIR.
Q OKAY.
A AND I BELIEVE THAT IS WHERE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FOUND
HIM.
Q ALL RIGHT. WELL, NOW HIS NOTES SAY POSSIBLE GUNSHOT
WOUND, "GSW."
DID ANYONE OTHER THAN YOURSELF EVER SUGGEST THAT THE
LACERATION ON GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS A GUNSHOT WOUND, IF YOU KNOW?
A I DO NOT KNOW OF ANYONE ELSE THAT MADE THAT
OBSERVATION, SIR.
Q OKAY. AND YOU SAID THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, UPON
VIEWING THE WOUND, THOUGHT THAT IT LOOKED MORE LIKE A CUT?
A YES, SIR.
Q SUCH AS WOULD BE INFLICTED BY A SHARP INSTRUMENT?
A YES, SIR, THAT IS FAIR.
Q ALL RIGHT.
NOW, THE NOTES THAT HE WROTE SAY GUNSHOT WOUND BUT DO
NOT MENTION CUT. DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT IS?
A NO, SIR. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE NOTES.
Q OKAY.
HOW LONG AFTER THAT WAS IT THAT DETECTIVES PHILLIPS
AND FUHRMAN WERE NOTIFIED THAT THE CASE WOULD NOT BE THEIRS, IF
YOU KNOW.
THE COURT: HOW LONG BEFORE WHAT?
MR. BAILEY: AFTER HIS ENCOUNTER WITH FUHRMAN AND THE BODY?
THE WITNESS: OKAY. YOUR QUESTION IS HOW LONG AFTER
FUHRMAN AND I VIEWED THE BODY?
Q BY MR. BAILEY: YES.
A THAT THE DECISION THAT ROBBERY/HOMICIDE WAS GOING TO
HANDLE --
Q YES.
A OKAY.
THE DECISION WAS MADE BEFORE HE AND I HAD VIEWED THE
BODY TOGETHER. I HAD MADE THE DECISION WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS
AND I WERE STANDING OUT ON BUNDY AFTER HE HAD AND I HAD VIEWED
THE BODY AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ROUGHLY TEN MINUTES TO 3:00,
SIR.
Q AND WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID PHILLIPS DO?
A PHILLIPS LEFT ME, WALKED ROUND TO THE REAR WHERE
DETECTIVE ROBERTS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD BEEN, AND BROUGHT
THEM BACK TO -- TO THE FRONT WHERE I WAS STANDING.
Q DID HE GO IN THE HOUSE?
A HE WAS OUT OF MY SIGHT, SIR. I DON'T KNOW. I LATER
LEARNED THAT DETECTIVE ROBERTS AND FUHRMAN APPARENTLY WERE INSIDE
THE CONDOMINIUM, SO YOU CAN SURMISE THAT HE DID, BUT I DON'T HAVE
PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF THAT.
Q AND HE BROUGHT FUHRMAN BACK WITH HIM? IS THAT THE
WAY IT HAPPENED?
A YES, SIR.
Q OKAY.
NOW, HAD YOU LEARNED AT THAT POINT THAT A SINGLE
GLOVE HAD BEEN LOCATED THAT MIGHT BE CONNECTED WITH THE MURDERS?
A I SAW IT, SIR.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU DIRECT ANYONE TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANOTHER
GLOVE AROUND, SINCE THEY NORMALLY COME IN PAIRS?
A WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT THE CRIME SCENE I ILLUMINATED
THE AREA WITH A FLASHLIGHT AND THERE WAS NEVER ANY OTHER GLOVE
THERE. THAT WAS ONLY THAT ONE THAT I COULD SEE BY AN OBLIQUE
ILLUMINATION OF THE CRIME SCENE AND A HORIZONTAL ILLUMINATION.
I ONLY EVER SAW THE ONE, SIR.
Q DID YOU LOOK AROUND THE BODY?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHERE?
A FROM TWO PERSPECTIVES. ACTUALLY THREE, EXCUSE ME.
>FROM THE DOORWAY INSIDE THE CONDOMINIUM YOU COULD LOOK DOWN AND
HAVE A LIMITED VIEW.
FROM THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BODIES, WHEN WE WALKED
THROUGH THE PLANTED AREA, AND THEN FROM THE NORTH SIDE OF THE
BODIES WHEN WE WALKED UP ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE FENCE.
I LOOKED AT IT THREE DIFFERENT ANGLES.
Q ALL RIGHT.
TWO OF THE ANGLES YOU WERE WITHIN THE ENCLOSURE THAT
IS NOW CALLED THE CRIME SCENE; IS THAT CORRECT?
A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)
Q IF YOU CONSIDER THE FENCE AND THE GATE TO BE AN
ENCLOSURE?
A I NEVER ENTERED INSIDE THE GATE, IF THAT IS THE
QUESTION YOU ARE ASKING, SIR.
Q OKAY.
WELL, REVIEW THEM AGAIN IF YOU WILL, BECAUSE IT IS
NOT CLEAR TO ME WITHOUT PUTTING A PICTURE UP AS TO WHERE YOU WERE
STANDING.
TIME ONE?
A TIME ONE. TIME ONE WAS STANDING IN THE DOORWAY OF
THE CONDOMINIUM INSIDE --
Q OH, OKAY.
A -- THE HOUSE.
Q COULDN'T SEE ANY GLOVE FROM THERE, COULD YOU?
A I DON'T RECALL SEEING A GLOVE FROM THERE, SIR.
Q OKAY.
A TIME TWO WAS FROM JUST SOUTH OF THE WALKWAY WHERE THE
FEMALE VICTIM WAS LYING.
TIME THREE WAS FROM THE NORTH SIDE OUTSIDE THE FENCE
AT THE RESIDENCE THAT IS IMMEDIATELY NORTH OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
Q DID YOU LOOK ANYWHERE ELSE ON ANY OTHER OCCASION?
A YES, SIR.
Q WHERE?
A I LOOKED ON SIDEWALKS, I LOOKED IN THE STREET, I
LOOKED ON THE LAWN, AND AS I WALKED, I LOOKED TO MAKE SURE YOU
DON'T STEP ON ANYTHING OR DISTURB ANYTHING.
Q SURE.
A THAT SORT OF THING, YES, SIR.
Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION.
DID YOU EVER ASK IF ANOTHER GLOVE HAD BEEN SEEN OR
DIRECT ANYONE TO LOOK FOR ONE?
A I DON'T RECALL MAKING THAT SPECIFIC REQUEST, SIR.
Q YOU NEVER WROTE A REPORT OF ANY OF THESE MATTERS, DID
YOU, LIEUTENANT?
A NO, SIR, I HAVE NEVER WRITTEN A REPORT ON ANY OF
THESE MATTERS.
Q SO YOU ARE NOW -- I TAKE IT YOU HAVE NEVER TESTIFIED
ABOUT THIS MATTER, HAVE YOU, BEFORE?
A NO, SIR, I HAVE NEVER TESTIFIED IN THIS MATTER.
Q SO YOU ARE RELYING TOTALLY ON YOUR MEMORY AT THE
MOMENT OR YOUR MEMORY AND THE REPORTS OF OTHERS?
A INDEPENDENT RECOLLECTION AND RECALL, SIR.
Q OKAY.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU RETURNED FROM THE THIRD
VIEWING OF THE CRIME SCENE WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN --
A NO, SIR. I RETURNED FROM THE THIRD VIEWING OF THE
CRIME SCENE WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO SOUTH BUNDY.
Q FOURTH THEN?
A WHEN DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND I WENT UP THERE, THAT
WOULD HAVE BEEN A FOURTH TIME; THAT'S CORRECT, SIR.
Q A FOURTH TIME?
A YES, SIR.
Q OKAY. YOU RETURNED AT ABOUT THREE O'CLOCK?
A ABOUT 3:05 I WOULD THINK.
Q ALL RIGHT.
TELL THE JURY, IF YOU CAN, EVERYTHING YOU DID FOR THE
NEXT TWO HOURS.
A FOR THE NEXT TWO HOURS AFTER VIEWING THE CRIME SCENE
WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
Q YES.
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, BEYOND THE SCOPE.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
DO YOU WANT TO LOOK AT -- WHY DON'T YOU REVIEW ITEM
4.
MR. BAILEY.
LIEUTENANT, YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
THE WITNESS: I STOOD ON THE EAST SIDE OF BUNDY JUST NORTH
OF DOROTHY AND THE ONLY TIME THAT I LEFT THAT POSITION WAS WHEN I
WALKED OVER TO LOOK AT THE DOG.
Q BY MR. BAILEY: SORRY, I DIDN'T CATCH THE LAST --
A THE ONLY TIME I LEFT MY POSITION -- WHAT WE WERE
DOING IS WE WERE WAITING FOR ROBBERY/HOMICIDE TO ARRIVE AND I
WALKED OVER AND LOOKED AT THE DOG. THAT WAS ABOUT IT.
Q LOOKED AT THE DOG?
A YES, SIR.
Q OKAY. THIS IS THE AKITA?
A I DON'T KNOW THE BRAND, BUT -- OR THE BREED, EXCUSE
ME, BUT IT WAS -- IT WAS A PRETTY GOOD SIZED DOG, YES, SIR.
Q DID THE DOG HAVE A LEASH ON IT WHEN YOU SAW IT?
A I SEEM TO RECALL IT WAS A ROPE.
Q A ROPE?
A IT LOOKED MORE LIKE A ROPE TO ME THAN A LEASH, YES,
SIR.
Q AROUND HIS NECK, DRAGGING?
A NO. I BELIEVE HE WAS TIED TO SOMETHING, A STREET
POLE OR A TREE.
Q THE DOG WAS TETHERED THE ONLY TIME YOU SAW HIM?
A YES, SIR.
Q ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS THAT?
A ABOUT 3:15.
Q NOW, OTHER THAN THAT ONE EXCURSION TO SEE THE DOG,
DID YOU REMAIN AT THE POSITION YOU SHOWED US IN THE PRIOR
PHOTOGRAPH, THE INTERSECTION OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY, FROM 3:00
UNTIL THE DETECTIVES LEFT AT 5:00?
A YES, SIR.
Q OKAY. AND WERE YOU STILL THERE AFTER THEY LEFT?
A YES, SIR.
Q DO YOU RECALL THEM LEAVING?
A YES, SIR.
Q ALL RIGHT.
WHEN YOU SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT NIGHT, WAS HE
WEARING A COAT AT ANY TIME?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND WHEN WAS THAT?
A WHEN I FIRST ARRIVED.
Q AND DID YOU SEE HIM LATER WITHOUT A COAT?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHEN WAS THAT?
A JUST SHORTLY AFTER THREE O'CLOCK. HE HAD IT OFF BY
THE TIME HE AND I WALKED UP TO THE FRONT -- TO THE NORTH SIDE OF
THE BODIES.
Q OKAY.
WHEN YOU WERE WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN YOU SAW HIM
SHINE THE LIGHT, A REPLICA OF WHICH IS BEFORE YOU?
A YES, SIR.
Q ON THE BODY OF RON GOLDMAN?
A YES, I DID.
Q YOU DID SEE HIM POKE AROUND OR SHINE IT ANYWHERE ELSE
OR MAKE ANY OTHER INVESTIGATION IN YOUR PRESENCE?
A NO, SIR.
Q OKAY.
SO THAT AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU WALKED UP, SHINED THE
LIGHT ON THE BODY WHERE YOU DIRECTED HIM TO LOOK AND CAME OUT?
A YES, SIR.
Q HE HAS SAID FIVE SECONDS. WOULD THAT SOUND RIGHT TO
YOU?
A YES, SIR.
Q OKAY.
AND THAT IS WHEN HE SAID TO YOU "I DON'T THINK IT IS
A GUNSHOT WOUND, I THINK IT IS A CUT"?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, OBJECTION.
THE COURT: WHAT IS THE GROUNDS?
MS. CLARK: MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q BY MR. BAILEY: I'M SORRY. DID I MISQUOTE YOU?
I UNDERSTOOD THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD DISAGREED
WITH YOUR ANALYSIS AND SUBSTITUTED HIS OWN?
A WELL, HE --
Q HOW DID HE PUT IT?
A WELL, SORT OF POLITELY THAT HE POINTED OUT TO ME THAT
THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS AND THEY WERE THE HOMICIDE
INVESTIGATORS, BECAUSE IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE A GUNSHOT WOUND TO
HIM.
Q WAS HE SUGGESTING YOU HAD BEEN BENCHED?
A WELL, HE WAS JUST SUGGESTING THAT HE HAD A DIFFERENT
OPINION, I THINK.
Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS NEVER BASHFUL ABOUT EXPRESSING
HIS OPINIONS, WAS HE?
A NO, SIR.
Q NOW, CAN YOU TELL US FROM 3:00 TO 5:00 A.M. WHERE
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS?
A UNTIL I BELIEVE IT WAS DETECTIVE LANGE OR VANNATTER,
AND I DON'T RECALL WHICH ONE, ARRIVED, HE WAS WITH ME.
Q HOW LONG WAS THAT?
A THAT WAS FROM THE TIME THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS
BROUGHT THEM BACK AROUND FROM THE BACK OF THE BUILDING UNTIL,
GOSH, ALMOST 4:00 IN THE MORNING, SIR.
Q OKAY.
A AND FROM THAT POINT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN WERE TALKING TO ONE OR BOTH OF THE HOMICIDE INVESTIGATORS
AND I BELIEVE LIEUTENANT ROGERS HAD ARRIVED AND THEY WERE TALKING
TO LIEUTENANT ROGERS AND WERE BEING -- WERE WALKING AROUND THE
VICINITY WITH THEM SHOWING THEM VARIOUS THINGS THAT THEY HAD SEEN
EARLIER.
Q WAS THERE ANY TALK DURING THAT PERIOD ABOUT POSSIBLE
SUSPECTS, LIEUTENANT?
A YES.
Q WAS MR. SIMPSON'S NAME MENTIONED?
A NO.
Q OKAY. WAS THERE A SUGGESTION OF SOME OTHER SUSPECTS?
A EXCUSE ME, SIR. LET ME CLARIFY IF I MAY.
Q YES.
WHEN YOU SAY WAS HIS NAME MENTIONED --
Q YES, AS A SUSPECT?
A THAT WAS MY ANSWER THEN.
Q IT WAS PRETTY MUCH UNDERSTOOD THAT THE DECEDENT WAS
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, HIS FORMER WIFE, WAS IT NOT?
A THERE WAS SOME DOUBT WHEN I ARRIVED AND PART OF THE
PROCESS OF MY WALKING THROUGH AND SEEING AND DISCUSSING WITH
DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND SERGEANT ROSSI WAS TO MAKE THAT
DETERMINATION BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TO BE MY DECISION WHETHER OR
NOT WE HANDLE IT OR DETECTIVE -- ROBBERY/HOMICIDE DIVISION
HANDLED IT AND I WANTED TO SATISFY MYSELF.
BUT THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME, APPROXIMATELY 3:45,
3:50 IN THE MORNING I BECAME CONVINCED THAT IT WAS ALMOST
CERTAINLY HER.
Q DO YOU MEAN 2:45 OR 2:50?
A I MEAN THAT I WAS BECOMING MORE CONVINCED. THE MORE
I SAW, THE MORE CONVINCED I BECAME.
Q YOU JUST SAID 3:45 TO 3:50.
A I'M SORRY, I MISSPOKE. I MEANT 2:00 SIR.
Q I THOUGHT SO. OKAY.
SO THERE WASN'T ANY QUESTION BANDIED ABOUT AFTER THAT
POINT ABOUT THE IDENTITY OF THE FEMALE VICTIM, WAS THERE?
A I DON'T RECALL ANY DISCUSSION.
Q YOU WOULD HARDLY PERMIT DETECTIVES TO GO NOTIFY MR.
O.J. SIMPSON THAT HIS WIFE HAD BEEN MURDERED UNLESS YOU WERE SURE
THAT THAT WAS TRUE; ISN'T THAT SO?
A THAT IS A FAIR ASSESSMENT, YES, SIR.
Q HAD YOU RECEIVED ANY SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS AS TO HOW
MR. SIMPSON SHOULD BE NOTIFIED IN THIS CASE?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND FROM WHOM?
A FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q HE TOLD YOU THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAD MADE A REQUEST OF
HIM. DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT WAS?
A YES, SIR, THAT WAS COMMANDER BUSHEY.
Q WAS IT YOUR DECISION TO BRING IN ROBBERY/HOMICIDE
ALONE OR HAD YOU BEEN INSTRUCTED TO DO THAT IF IT TURNED OUT THAT
THE VICTIM WAS MRS. SIMPSON?
A I WILL HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT TO YOU, BUT IT WAS MY
DECISION. THE CHIEF MADE A RECOMMENDATION, BUT I'M THE
COMMANDING OFFICER ON THE SCENE AND IT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO
MAKE THE DECISION, AND IT WAS MY DECISION.
Q HIS RECOMMENDATION HOWEVER PRECEDED YOUR DECISION,
DID IT NOT?
A YES, IT DID, SIR.
Q AND WAS IDENTICAL WITH YOUR DECISION, WAS IT NOT?
A I AM VERY GRATEFUL TO HIM FOR HAVING SUGGESTED THAT
TO ME, YES, SIR.
Q IN RETROSPECT?
A YES, SIR.
Q DID YOU, WHEN YOU WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE, NOTICE A
LIST OF PHONE NUMBERS, INCLUDING MR. SIMPSON'S?
A NO, SIR.
Q DID YOU NOTICE A TELEPHONE WITH A DIALER ON IT THAT
SAID "DADDY"?
A NO, SIR.
Q DID YOU KNOW THAT TWO CHILDREN HAD BEEN TAKEN OUT OF
THE HOUSE?
A I WAS INFORMED, YES, SIR.
Q AND DID YOU KNOW THAT MR. SIMPSON AND MRS. SIMPSON
HAD TWO CHILDREN. HAD YOU KNOWN THAT?
A NO, I DID NOT KNOW THAT.
Q ALL RIGHT.
WAS THERE ANY TALK IN YOUR PRESENCE BY ANY OF THE
DETECTIVES ABOUT ANY DIFFICULTIES MR. SIMPSON MIGHT HAVE HAD IN
1985 OR 1989?
A NOT IN MY PRESENCE, SIR.
Q DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN EVER DISCUSS THAT SUBJECT WITH
YOU?
A HE NEVER DID, SIR.
Q WHEN YOU TALKED TO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND THEN WALKED
WITH HIM UP TO THE NORTH SIDE, AS WE CALL IT, OF THE ENCLOSED
AREA THAT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS THE CRIME SCENE, DID HE TELL YOU
THAT HE HAD BEEN THERE BEFORE?
A NO, SIR.
Q ALL RIGHT. DID HE MENTION ANYTHING AT ALL?
A NO, SIR.
Q ALL RIGHT.
DO YOU RECALL, LIEUTENANT, THAT THERE IS AN AREA OF
HEAVY FOLIAGE IMMEDIATELY OUTSIDE THE CRIME SCENE?
A YES, SIR.
Q DID YOU PERSONALLY CARRY A FLASHLIGHT WITH YOU?
A YES, SIR.
Q DID YOU GO THROUGH THAT AREA?
A WHEN YOU -- WHAT DO YOU MEAN "GO THROUGH IT"? DID I
WALK THROUGH IT?
Q THE FOLIAGE?
A DID I WALK THROUGH IT?
Q OR SEARCH THROUGH IT?
A YES. SHINE THE LIGHT AND LOOK THROUGH, YES, SIR.
Q WHEN DID YOU DO THAT?
A WHEN I HAD WALKED UP WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q ALL RIGHT.
TELL ME EXACTLY WHERE IT WAS THAT YOU SHINED YOUR
LIGHT.
A BOTH TO THE SOUTH OF THE SIDEWALK AND TO THE NORTH OF
THE SIDEWALK FROM THE CURB GOING WEST ALL THE WAY UP TO THE FENCE
AND THEN WHEN WE WALKED AROUND INSIDE THE AREA, I TRIED TO SHINE
IT ALL OVER THE AREA AS BEST I COULD.
Q DID YOU LEAVE THE SIDEWALK AS YOU WALKED BY THE EAST
BOUNDARY OF THE FENCE OR SIMPLY LOOK FROM THE SIDEWALK WITH YOUR
FLASHLIGHT?
A I STAYED ON THE SIDEWALK.
Q OKAY.
A UMM, THE PATHWAY THAT RUNS FROM THE EAST TO THE WEST
IS WHAT I'M REFERRING TO AS A SIDEWALK NOW, NOT THE PUBLIC
SIDEWALK.
IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?
Q I'M TALKING ABOUT BOTH.
A OKAY. AND IN FACT I DID LOOK AT BOTH WITH A
FLASHLIGHT, YES, SIR.
Q OKAY. BUT YOU STAYED ON THE CONCRETE, I THINK THAT
IS THE EASIEST WAY TO FRAME IT?
A YES, SIR.
THE COURT: BOTH OF YOU, LET HIM FINISH ASKING THE QUESTION
BEFORE YOU START ANSWERING, LIEUTENANT.
THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: MR. BAILEY, PLEASE LET HIM FINISH HIS ANSWER.
MR. BAILEY: I APOLOGIZE, YOUR HONOR. I'M AFRAID THE
WITNESS AND I MAY SHARE A COMMON LINEAGE AS A MARINE.
THE WITNESS: U.S. ARMY, SIR. COMMAND SERGEANT MAJOR, U.S.
ARMY, SIR.
MR. BAILEY: U.S. ARMY. PARDON ME. MR. DARDEN APPARENTLY
DOESN'T KNOW HIS UNIFORMS BECAUSE HE TOLD ME YOU WERE A MARINE.
Q WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME, LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, THAT
YOU RECITED FOR ANYONE'S BENEFIT YOUR TWO TRIPS UP TO LOOK AT
GOLDMAN'S WOUND? DO YOU REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME YOU TALKED ABOUT
THAT?
A YESTERDAY.
MR. BAILEY: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, IS IT COMMON FOR POLICE OFFICERS
TO CARRY FLASHLIGHTS AT CRIME SCENES?
A ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT, YES, MA'AM.
Q AND IS IT -- WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A
FLASHLIGHT AT A CRIME SCENE?
A TO AID YOUR VISION, TO ALLOW YOU TO IDENTIFY AND SEE
POTENTIAL ITEMS OF EVIDENCE.
Q AND WOULD A FLASHLIGHT ALSO ILLUMINATE WHERE YOU ARE
WALKING?
A YES, IT WOULD.
Q AND IS IT IMPORTANT TO SEE WHERE YOU ARE WALKING IN A
CRIME SCENE THAT CONTAINS POTENTIAL EVIDENCE?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND WHY IS THAT?
A SO YOU DON'T DISTURB THE EVIDENCE OR POSSIBLY DESTROY
IT.
Q AND SO IS IT COMMON PRACTICE, IN FACT ALWAYS DONE AT
NIGHTTIME CRIME SCENES, THAT POLICE OFFICERS USE FLASHLIGHTS TO
ILLUMINATE WHERE THEY WALK?
A IT IS MY PRACTICE.
Q NOW, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, SIR, BEFORE -- ACCORDING TO
YOUR TESTIMONY ON CROSS-EXAMINATION, BY THE TIME DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN CAME OUT TO YOU BEFORE YOU WENT WITH HIM TO THAT NORTH
FENCE, HE HAD ALREADY WRITTEN NOTES? THAT WAS ALREADY DONE?
A IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING, BUT I DID NOT PERSONALLY SEE
THAT.
MR. BAILEY: I'M GOING TO OBJECT TO LEADING, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
MS. CLARK: THIS IS --
THE COURT: THE QUESTION IS THERE. THE ANSWER IS THERE.
THE OBJECTION IS THAT THE PRECEDING QUESTIONS HAVE
BEEN LEADING.
PROCEED.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: YOU TESTIFIED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION,
SIR, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS BROUGHT
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN OUT, TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE.
TELL US WHAT WAS YOUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHERE DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN HAD BEEN BEFORE YOU SAW HIM AND SPOKE TO HIM ON THE EAST
SIDE OF BUNDY?
A WELL, I HAD SEEN HIM AND DETECTIVE ROBERTS AT THE
REAR OF THE LOCATION IN THE ALLEYWAY, AND WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS
LEFT ME HE WALKED AROUND THAT DIRECTION AND HE RETURNED WITH
THEM.
MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THEY WERE INSIDE THE
CONDOMINIUM, BUT I DID NOT PERSONALLY SEE THAT.
Q OKAY.
AND THEN WHAT WAS YOUR UNDERSTAND BEING WHAT
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS DOING INSIDE THE CONDOMINIUM BEFORE HE CAME
OUT WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO SEE YOU ON THE EAST SIDE OF BUNDY?
A BEGINNING THEIR INVESTIGATION.
Q OKAY.
WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT HE WAS WRITING NOTES
INSIDE THE CONDOMINIUM AT THAT TIME?
A YES.
Q AND IT WAS AFTER THAT POINT -- AFTER THAT POINT THAT
YOU HAD YOUR CONVERSATION ON THE EAST SIDE OF BUNDY AND WHAT YOU
DID AFTER -- WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?
A AFTER DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND
DETECTIVE ROBERTS RETURNED TO MY LOCATION?
Q YES.
A I HAD A -- I MADE MY OBSERVATION OR DISCUSSED MY
OBSERVATION OF THE INJURY AND I ASKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TO
ACCOMPANY ME OVER TO LOOK AT IT FOR HIS OPINION.
Q NOW, THE OBSERVATION THAT YOU MADE, THE CONVERSATION
YOU HAD ABOUT THAT, WAS THAT WITH RESPECT TO THE ONE WOUND ON
THE BACK OR WITH RESPECT TO ALL OF THE WOUNDS ON THE BODY?
A THAT ONE WOUND, MA'AM.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN
ABOUT ANY OF THE OTHER POSSIBLE WOUNDS ON THE BODY?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q AND WHEN YOU DISCUSSED WITH HIM THAT ONE WOUND THAT
YOU SAW ON THE BACK, DID HE TELL YOU -- WHAT DID HE TELL YOU
ABOUT HIS BELIEF CONCERNING THE CAUSE OF THAT ONE WOUND?
A HE TOLD ME THAT HE DID NOT THINK IT WAS A GUNSHOT
WOUND, THAT HE THOUGHT IT WAS A CUT.
Q OKAY.
WHAT WAS THE LANGUAGE? WAS HE DEFINITE OR WAS IT A
POSSIBLE CUT?
A WELL, HE WAS KIND OF -- I DON'T WANT TO CALL IT
LAUGHING AT ME, BUT HE WAS OF THE OPINION THAT I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT
I WAS TALKING ABOUT, I THINK.
HE SEEMED TO BE FAIRLY CERTAIN IN HIS MIND THAT IT
WAS A CUT.
Q OKAY.
WHAT WAS THIS, AN INSULTING CONVERSATION, SIR?
A WELL, I CERTAINLY HOPE NOT, MA'AM.
Q HOW DID YOU TAKE IT?
A I WAS NOT INSULTED.
Q WERE YOU LAUGHING?
A I DEFERRED TO HIS EXPERTISE, THOUGH.
Q WERE YOU LAUGHING AT THE TIME?
A YES, I DID.
Q YOU INDICATED, SIR, THAT YOU WERE GLAD THAT YOU HAD
MADE THE DECISION TO REFER THE CASE TO ROBBERY/HOMICIDE?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND YOU WERE GRATEFUL FOR THE SUGGESTION FROM
LIEUTENANT FRANKLE?
A CHIEF.
Q CHIEF FRANKLE?
A YES.
Q FORGIVE ME.
A YES, MA'AM, I WAS.
Q WHY IS THAT, SIR?
A BECAUSE I HAVE, COUNTING DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, A
FOUR-MAN HOMICIDE UNIT, AND THE -- I DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO
ADEQUATELY INVESTIGATE A CRIME THAT WAS OF THIS MAGNITUDE. I
MEAN, I HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 38 DETECTIVES IN MY ENTIRE DIVISION.
WE WOULD HAVE HAD TO SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING AND HANDLE NOTHING BUT
THIS CASE. COULDN'T DO IT.
Q AND THEN JUST SO IT IS CLEAR, SIR, BASED ON YOUR
KNOWLEDGE OF THE OBSERVATIONS MADE AT THE CRIME SCENE, 875 SOUTH
BUNDY, HOW MANY GLOVES WERE THERE?
A THERE WAS ONLY EVER ONE GLOVE THERE THAT I SAW.
Q OKAY.
HAS IT EVER BEEN BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT
ANYONE, WHETHER IT WAS THE FIRST OFFICER OR ANY OTHER OFFICER
AFTER HIM AT THE SCENE, SAW ANYTHING OTHER THAN ONE GLOVE?
A ONE GLOVE.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, SIR.
THE COURT: MR. BAILEY.
MR. BAILEY: NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LIEUTENANT, YOU ARE EXCUSED FROM
FURTHER TESTIMONY AT THIS TIME; HOWEVER, SUBJECT TO RECALL.
PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY ELSE
EXCEPT FOR THE ATTORNEYS OR THEIR INVESTIGATORS.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDER, SIR?
THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, LIEUTENANT.
YOU ARE EXCUSED.
THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A BRIEF
RECESS AT THIS TIME TO CHANGE COURT REPORTERS.
PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU. DON'T DISCUSS
THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE
CASE, DON'T ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE COMMUNICATED WITH REGARDING THE
CASE, AND DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS
BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU.
ASK YOU TO STEP BACK INTO THE JURY ROOM, PLEASE.
ALL RIGHT. WE WILL STAND IN RECESS FOR FIFTEEN.
(RECESS.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL
THE PARTIES ARE PRESENT.
THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT.
COUNSEL, YOU BROUGHT DOWN THE ADDITIONAL BOARDS; IS
THAT CORRECT?
MR. DARDEN: YES, YOUR HONOR, THREE ADDITIONAL BOARDS. I
HAVE SHOWN THOSE BOARDS TO MR. SHAPIRO.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
ARE WE READY TO PROCEED? I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT
WE PUT IT SOMEPLACE OTHER THAN RIGHT THERE UP AGAINST THE JURY
RAIL.
ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS,
PLEASE.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
PLEASE BE SEATED.
LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE BEEN REJOINED BY
ALL THE MEMBERS OF YOUR OUR JURY.
MR. DARDEN, WOULD YOU DO ME A FAVOR AND GRAB THE
MAG-LITE THAT IS THERE.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.
COUNSEL, WHO IS YOUR NEXT WITNESS.
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE PEOPLE CALL MR. DARRYL
SMITH.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. SMITH, COME FORWARD, PLEASE.
DARRYL SMITH,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS
FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE
IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH,
THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
THE WITNESS: I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND
STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: FIRST NAME IS DARRYL, D-A-R-R-Y-L. LAST NAME
SMITH, S-M-I-T-H.
THE CLERK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. SMITH, WOULD YOU JUST PULL THE MICROPHONE A
LITTLE CLOSER TO YOU.
THE WITNESS: SURE.
THE COURT: THANK YOU, SIR.
THE WITNESS: OKAY.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q MR. SMITH, CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU DO FOR A
LIVING.
A I WORK AS A FREELANCE CAMERAMAN OR DIRECTOR OF
PHOTOGRAPHY.
Q AND WERE YOU SO EMPLOYED ON THE DATE OF JUNE 13,
1994?
A YES, I WAS.
Q AND ON THAT DATE, SIR, DID YOU HAVE AN ASSIGNMENT FOR
A PARTICULAR COMPANY?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND WHAT WAS THAT?
A UMM, I WAS HIRED THROUGH GOLD COAST COMMUNICATIONS TO
WORK FOR INSIDE EDITION.
Q OKAY. SO ON THAT DAY WERE YOU OUT SHOOTING SOME
FOOTAGE FOR INSIDE EDITION?
A YES, I WAS.
Q AND WHERE DID YOU GO?
A AFTER LEAVING INSIDE'S MAIN HEADQUARTERS, WE WENT
OVER TO WHAT IS NOW KNOWN AS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S CONDO AND
THEN ALSO OVER TO O.J.'S HOME.
Q OKAY. ON ROCKINGHAM?
A ON ROCKINGHAM, YES.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU WENT TO NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S
CONDOMINIUM, WAS THAT THE LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q OKAY.
AND THERE IS SOME FOOTAGE I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU.
BEFORE I DO, LET ME ASK YOU, SIR, THE FOOTAGE THAT WILL BE SHOWN
TO YOU, HAVE YOU VIEWED THAT IN MY OFFICE WITH ME?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q AND EXPLAINED TO ME HOW THAT WAS DONE?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q DOES THE FOOTAGE SHOW THE EVENTS AND THE ORDER, THE
CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER THAT THEY OCCURRED?
A YES, IT DOES.
Q OKAY.
SO THAT THE FIRST SHOT THAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE, THAT
IS WHAT OCCURRED FIRST IN TIME?
A UMM, YES, I BELIEVE SO.
Q AND THEN EVERY SHOT THEREAFTER?
A EVERY SHOT THEREAFTER, YES.
THE COURT: IN ORDER.
MS. CLARK: IN ORDER. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE WITNESS: IN ORDER.
Q BY MS. CLARK: ARE THERE PIECES CUT OUT OF THE
FOOTAGE?
A THERE ARE PIECES CUT OUT. THE FOOTAGE HAS BEEN
EDITED BUT IT TELLS THE STORY BASICALLY IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, SIR.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, LET ME INQUIRE. YOU HAVE VIEWED
THAT; IS THAT CORRECT?
MS. CLARK: IT HAS ALREADY BEEN MARKED AND SHOWN, YOUR
HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. REFRESH MY RECOLLECTION. IS THE
FEED APPROPRIATELY CUT ON THESE?
MS. CLARK: YES. IT SHOULD BE CUT AND THIS IS THE TAPE
THAT WAS SHOWN WITH DETECTIVE LANGE.
THE COURT: FINE. OKAY.
MS. CLARK: 101. PEOPLE'S 101, YOUR HONOR.
ALL RIGHT. MR. SMITH, THERE IS A MONITOR RIGHT THERE
FOR YOU TO VIEW.
THE WITNESS: RIGHT HERE? THANK YOU.
THE COURT: YES.
(AT 11:05 A.M., PEOPLE'S
EXHIBIT 101, A VIDEOTAPE,
WAS PLAYED.)
MS. CLARK: CAN WE BACK THAT UP? I'M SORRY.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY.
Q ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS FOOTAGE, SIR?
A YES, I DO. CURRENTLY WE ARE ACROSS THE STREET AS NO
CAMERAMEN WERE PERMITTED TO GO ACROSS THE STREET. THEY HAD US
ALL BASICALLY STATIONED ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE STREET.
Q SO ALL OF THE NEWS CREWS THERE AND THE CAMERAMEN WERE
STATIONED ON THE EAST SIDE OF BUNDY?
A BASICALLY ON THE EAST SIDE OF BUNDY. THERE WERE A
COUPLE GUYS ACROSS THE STREET DOWN TOWARDS I GUESS THAT WOULD BE
THE SOUTH SIDE AND THEY WERE MAKING THEIR WAY TO THE EAST SIDE.
Q OKAY.
SO THEN THE CRIME SCENE TAPE SHOT -- THE SHOT OF THE
CRIME SCENE -- THE SHOT OF THE CRIME SCENE TAPE COMING DOWN, THAT
WAS THE FIRST THING THAT OCCURRED?
A YES, BEFORE ANY OF THIS HAPPENED.
Q BEFORE ANY OF THIS?
A RIGHT.
THE COURT: INDICATING THE POLICE OFFICER WAS LIFTING THE
COTTON BLANKET.
MS. CLARK: AND WALKING ON THE WALKWAY.
THE COURT: YES.
Q BY MS. CLARK: NOW, WHERE ARE YOU STANDING AT THIS
POINT, SIR?
A I'M STANDING ACROSS THE STREET. WELL, ACTUALLY I
GUESS THAT WOULD BE THE WEST SIDE AFTER THE TAPE WENT DOWN AND
I'M PRETTY MUCH STANDING ON THE GRASS.
Q ON THE GRASS?
A UH-HUH.
Q AND CAN WE RUN THAT THROUGH ONE MORE TIME, PLEASE.
SO WHILE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE WAS STILL UP, SIR,
WHERE WERE ALL THE CAMERAMEN AND NEWS CREWS AND THE MEDIA?
A A LOT OF MEDIA HAD LEFT AND I GUESS HEADED OVER
TOWARDS ROCKINGHAM, BUT THE MEDIA THAT WAS THERE AT THAT TIME WAS
BASICALLY ACROSS THE STREET.
WHEN THE TAPE WENT DOWN I JUST BASICALLY
INSTINCTIVELY WENT ACROSS THE STREET AND STOOD ON THE GRASS,
BECAUSE THEN YOU CAN APPROACH A CRIME SCENE.
Q SO THE FIRST TIME ANY CAMERAMEN WERE ALLOWED TO GET
CLOSE TO THE CRIME SCENE WAS AFTER THE TAPE CAME DOWN?
A AFTER THE TAPE CAME DOWN AT THE TIME, YOU KNOW, THAT
I WAS THERE, WE WERE ALL STATIONED ACROSS THE STREET, AND WHEN
THE TAPE CAME DOWN, AGAIN THAT IS WHEN WE WERE ALLOWED TO COME
OVER BY THE CRIME SCENE.
MS. CLARK: OKAY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECALL HOW LONG YOU HAD BEEN
THERE WHEN THE CRIME SCENE TAPE CAME DOWN?
A UMM, TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION ABOUT 30 TO 45
MINUTES.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN MS. CLARK AND THE CLERK.)
MS. CLARK: READY? OKAY.
(AT 11:10 A.M., PEOPLE'S
EXHIBIT 101, A VIDEOTAPE,
WAS AGAIN PLAYED.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT.
WHERE ARE YOU STANDING WHEN THIS PART OF THE TAPE --
IF YOU COULD STOP IT HERE -- WHEN THIS PART OF THE TAPE IS BEING
SHOT?
A ACROSS THE STREET FROM -- FROM THE RESIDENCE. I
GUESS THAT WOULD BE THE EAST SIDE.
Q OF BUNDY?
A OF BUNDY.
MS. CLARK: STOP.
Q ALL RIGHT.
NOW, YOU SEE THIS KID ROLLER SKATING DOWN THE
SIDEWALK?
A YEAH, I DO.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. EXCUSE ME, MISS CLARK.
MISS CLARK, I'M SORRY, THE FIRST PORTION THAT MR.
SMITH ANSWERED TO WAS THE OFFICER WHO WAS ROLLING UP THE CRIME
SCENE TAPE.
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
Q BY MS. CLARK: OKAY.
YOU ARE STILL ACROSS THE STREET AT THIS POINT; IS
THAT RIGHT?
A YES, I AM.
(THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)
MS. CLARK: OKAY. STOP, PLEASE.
Q AT THIS POINT THE CRIME SCENE TAPE -- IS THIS SHOT
AFTER THE CRIME SCENE TAPE HAS COME DOWN?
A YES, THIS IS.
Q OKAY. AND CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, WHERE YOU ARE
STANDING AT THE TIME THIS SHOT IS FILMED?
A UMM, APPROXIMATELY -- I'M EITHER RIGHT ON THE GRASS
OR RIGHT BY THE CURB ON THE WEST SIDE OF BUNDY.
Q OKAY. SO YOU ARE MUCH CLOSER NOW?
A YEAH, YEAH, I AM.
THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT THE WITNESS IS
REFERRING TO A PORTION OF THE TAPE WHERE IT APPEARS THAT THERE IS
A CHILD LEANING OVER ROLLER BLADING PAST THE WESTEC SIGN.
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.
OKAY.
(THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)
MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. STOP HERE. CAN YOU BACK IT UP?
Q ALL RIGHT.
AT THIS POINT, SIR, CHRONOLOGICALLY SPEAKING, DOES
THIS EVENT OCCUR AFTER THE CHILD IS ROLLER BLADING?
A YES.
Q AND FOR THE RECORD BY "THIS" I'M REFERRING TO THE
PORTION OF THE TAPE WHERE ONE OFFICER IS WALKING DOWN THE
WALKWAY, THERE IS A BLOODY SHEET ON THE GROUND AND THERE IS
ANOTHER OFFICER IN THE BACKGROUND WALKING IN THE SAME DIRECTION,
BOTH OF THEM WALKING EAST ON THE WALKWAY?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
NOW, WAS THERE ANYTHING -- WE EXAMINED -- YOU RECALL
AS YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER, WE EXAMINED THIS TAPE IN MY OFFICE
TOGETHER ON AN EARLIER OCCASION?
A YES, WE DID.
Q WAS THERE FOOTAGE THAT YOU FILMED BETWEEN THE LITTLE
BOY ON THE ROLLER SKATES AND THESE OFFICERS COMING DOWN THE
WALKWAY THAT IS NOT SHOWN HERE?
A YES, THERE IS.
Q HOW CAN YOU TELL THAT, SIR?
A UMM, BASICALLY BECAUSE I SHOT A LOT OF IT AND IT IS
EDITED TO WHERE THE IMPORTANT PART WAS THAT HE TOOK THE TAPE DOWN
AND THE NEXT IMPORTANT PART WAS IT WAS STRANGE TO SEE A CHILD
SKATING BY, THAT KIND OF THING.
WHAT TRANSPIRED IN BETWEEN, THOSE WOULD BE CLOSE
SHOTS OF OFFICERS AND CLOSE SHOTS, DIFFERENT SHOTS, SO THAT YOU
CAN CUT UP AND MAKE A PROGRAM WITH, SO YES, THERE ARE -- I HAD
CAMERA ROLLING AT DIFFERENT TIMES.
Q OKAY.
BUT THE SHOTS, ARE THEY STILL IN CHRONOLOGICAL
SEQUENCE?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD.
Q AND IF YOU COULD TELL US, SIR, AS RE-ROLL THE TAPE
NOW, WE ARE GOING TO ROLL IT SLOWLY, IF THERE IS ANOTHER CUT.
A OKAY.
(THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)
MS. CLARK: CAN YOU STOP THERE.
Q HOW CLOSE ARE YOU HERE, SIR, WHEN YOU ARE FILMING
THIS SHOT?
A UMM, I'M STILL PRETTY MUCH ON THE GRASS.
Q OKAY.
A YEAH. ON THE GRASS RIGHT AT THE EDGE -- ON THE GRASS
OR RIGHT AT THE EDGE OF THE SIDEWALK.
Q OKAY. WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THAT BLOODY SHEET OR
BLANKET?
A SURE.
Q YEAH.
DID THE BLOOD ON IT STILL LOOK WET OR MOIST TO YOU?
A THAT I COULDN'T TELL.
Q OKAY.
A I COULDN'T TELL.
Q YOU SAW THE FLIES AROUND IT?
A UMM, IN MY BEST RECOLLECTION ALL I PRETTY MUCH SAW IS
PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOU SEE HERE. I DIDN'T REALLY -- I CAN'T SAY I
REALLY REMEMBER FLIES.
Q OKAY.
A BUT --
Q BUT IF IT IS ON THE TAPE --
A IF IT IS ON THE TAPE, I SAW IT, BASICALLY.
MS. CLARK: OKAY. OKAY.
(THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)
MS. CLARK: COULD YOU STOP HERE.
Q WHAT WAS -- WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO FOCUS ON HERE?
WAS THERE A PARTICULAR -- OTHER THAN OBVIOUSLY THE CRIME SCENE
AND THIS IS BLOOD, WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT PARTICULARLY YOU WERE
TRYING TO SHOW THAT DREW YOUR ATTENTION?
A THE ONLY THING HERE IS TO MAKE SURE I GET A CLOSE-UP
SHOT OF THE WHITE BLANKET WITH THE BLOOD SO THAT YOU CAN -- IF
THEY CHOSE TO, THEY COULD CUT TO IT AND BASICALLY SHOW IT IN MORE
DETAIL.
Q DO YOU SEE, SIR -- YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE MONITOR.
A OKAY.
Q IN THE UPPER, I WANT TO SAY RIGHT-HAND CORNER KIND OF
IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND TILE OF THIS FRAME, AND FOR THE RECORD
THE FRAME I'M NOW DESCRIBING IS SHOWING THE BLANKET AND THE FIRST
STEP OF THE STEPS THAT GO FROM THE WALKWAY UP TO THE LANDING,
WHAT APPEARS TO BE A -- OH, THANKS.
CAN YOU LOOK AT THE SCREEN, SIR, AND I'M GOING TO
DIRECT -- LOOK AT THE RED DOT.
A SURE.
Q CAN YOU SEE IT?
A YEAH, I SEE THE RED DOT. I CAN BARELY MAKE OUT THE
SCREEN, BUT I CAN SEE THE AREA THAT YOU ARE CIRCLING AND THE
TILE, OKAY.
Q OKAY. DO YOU RECALL SEEING THAT SPOT?
A YEAH, I DO.
Q AND WHAT WAS THAT?
A UMM, IT IS BASICALLY A LARGE AMOUNT OF BLOOD,
COAGULATED BLOOD.
MS. CLARK: OKAY. GO AHEAD.
(THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)
MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. STOP.
Q ALL RIGHT, SIR.
I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU TWO PHOTOGRAPHS, ONE OF WHICH
HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 57 AND ONE OF WHICH HAS BEEN MARKED
AS DEFENDANT'S 1011 AND ASK YOU --
A OKAY.
Q -- TO YOU LOOK AT THESE.
HAVE I SHOWN YOU THESE BEFORE, SIR?
A NO, I HAVEN'T SEEN THESE BEFORE.
Q OKAY.
CAN YOU TELL ME, FIRST OF ALL, SIR, IF THOSE APPEAR
TO BE BASICALLY THE SAME PHOTOGRAPH, ONE LARGE -- ONE LARGER THAN
THE OTHER, ONE SHOWING THE LOGO AND ONE IN WHICH THE LOGO IS
BLOCKED OUT?
A YEAH, THEY ARE BASICALLY THE SAME PHOTOGRAPH.
Q OKAY.
AND CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, WHETHER OR NOT THESE ARE
STILL SHOTS TAKEN FROM THE VIDEO THAT YOU FILMED THAT WE HAVE
JUST BEEN LOOKING AT?
A YEAH, THEY DO LOOK TO BE TAKEN FROM THE VIDEO.
Q OKAY.
AND IF YOU COULD LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR, SIR, THE FRAME
THAT IS NOW BEING SHOWN, DO THESE APPEAR TO BE STILLS, THE STILL
FRAME FROM THE VIDEO THAT YOU SHOT, THE FRAME THAT IS NOW BEING
SHOWN TO YOU?
A YES, IT DOES.
Q AND SO IF WHAT YOU SHOT AND WHAT IS SHOWN IN THIS
TAPE IS ALL IN CHRONOLOGICAL SEQUENCE, THIS PARTICULAR SHOT,
WHICH IS A STILL OF WHICH IS SHOWN TO YOU IN PEOPLE'S 57 AND
DEFENSE 1011 OCCURRED AFTER THE CRIME SCENE TAPE WAS TAKEN DOWN?
A YES, YES.
MS. CLARK: OKAY. ROLL THE REST.
(THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. COCHRAN:
Q GOOD MORNING, MR. SMITH.
A GOOD MORNING, MR. COCHRAN.
Q JUST A FEW QUESTIONS, SIR, IF I MIGHT.
YOU WERE THE PHOTOGRAPHER ON A PROGRAM THAT WAS
ULTIMATELY SHOWN ON INSIDE EDITION; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT'S TRUE.
Q AND WAS THE NARRATOR OF THE PROGRAM SOMEONE BY THE
NAME OF JOEL LOYE, L-O-Y-E?
A I DON'T KNOW WHO THE NARRATOR WAS, SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE THE SHOW WHEN IT WAS ULTIMATELY PRODUCED?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q AS I UNDERSTAND IT THEN IS WHAT YOU DO, YOU DO YOUR
WORK AT THE SCENE THERE AND YOU TURN IT OVER TO THEM?
A RIGHT.
Q THEY THEN CAN EDIT, CUT AND SPLICE?
A ANYWAY THEY CHOOSE.
Q SO WHEN WE SEE ON IT TELEVISION IT IS NOT ALWAYS IN
THE SAME ORDER IN WHICH YOU SHOT IT; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q THEY HAVE THAT OPTION?
A THEY DO HAVE THAT OPTION.
Q NOW, FROM WHAT YOU HAVE INDICATED TO US, SIR, YOU
SHOT MORE FILM THAN WE ARE SEEING HERE TODAY; IS THAT A FAIR
STATEMENT?
A THAT IS A FAIR STATEMENT.
Q LET'S START AT THE BEGINNING.
WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE OUT AT 875 BUNDY ON JUNE 13,
1994?
A THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF ABOUT
2:00 TO 2:30.
Q 2:00 TO 2:30 IN THE AFTERNOON?
A YES.
Q WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE, AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR
TESTIMONY, THE YELLOW PERIMETER WAS STILL UP; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q WERE THERE STILL OFFICERS AROUND INSIDE THE YELLOW
BAND WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE?
A YES.
Q AND DID -- WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT YOU
TOOK SOME PHOTOGRAPHS OR SOME VIDEO OF THE OFFICERS WALKING
AROUND IN THERE?
A UMM, YES, YOU WOULD BE CORRECT.
Q IN OTHER WORDS, YOUR IDEA AND YOUR GOAL AS A -- ARE
YOU CALLED A VIDEOGRAPHER?
A YOU CAN CALL ME THAT.
Q I WANT TO CALL YOU WHAT --
A BASICALLY WHEN YOU SHOOT FOR INSIDE EDITION YOU ARE A
NEWS PHOTOGRAPH.
Q OKAY.
SO AS A NEWS PHOTOGRAPHER, YOU HAVE AN EYE FOR THE
NEWS, YOU ARE SHOOTING AND TRYING TO GET WHATEVER MIGHT BE
RELEVANT FOR THE PROGRAM THEREAFTER, IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
A YES, IT IS.
Q SO WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE SHORTLY AFTER TWO O'CLOCK,
WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT YOU STARTED TO SHOOT AT THAT
POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?
A UMM, YES, SOON AFTER THAT.
Q AND WHERE IS THAT FILM NOW THAT YOU SHOT THAT WE ARE
NOT SEEING TODAY?
A THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE -- THAT IS THE PROPERTY OF
INSIDE EDITION.
Q IN OTHER WORDS, YOU TURNED IN OR SOLD IT OVER TO
THEM?
A I DON'T SELL IT OVER TO THEM. I TURN IT OVER TO
THEM. THEY HIRE ME FOR THE DAY. THEY PAY ME MY REQUIRED FEE FOR
THE DAY AND IT IS THEIR PROPERTY.
Q SO THE FILM IS AT INSIDE EDITION; IS THAT CORRECT, AS
FAR AS YOU KNOW?
A THAT'S TRUE.
Q AND WITH REGARD TO WHAT YOU SHOT PRIOR TO THE TAKING
DOWN OF THE SCENE, DO YOU RECALL WHETHER YOU SAW POLICE OFFICERS
IN AND AROUND THAT CRIME SCENE INSIDE THE YELLOW TAPE?
A WHEN I WAS SHOOTING FROM ACROSS THE STREET?
Q YES, YES.
A YES, THERE WERE.
Q THEY SEEMED TO BE WORKING IN THAT AREA, WERE THEY?
A YES, THEY DID.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER HOW MANY POLICE OFFICERS WERE IN
THERE?
A NO, I DON'T.
Q YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF THAT?
A NO, NOT -- I DIDN'T TAKE COUNT.
Q ALL RIGHT.
HAVE YOU -- WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW THE FILM
THAT YOU SHOT PRIOR TO THE CRIME SCENE BEING TAKEN DOWN?
A I GUESS THE LAST TIME -- THE TOTAL FILM OR JUST THIS
PIECE I'M LOOKING AT NOW?
Q I'M THINKING NOW THE FILM WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE
BEFORE THEY TOOK THE CRIME SCENE DOWN, WHEN DID YOU LAST SEE
THAT?
A I'M SORRY, COULD YOU --
Q SURE. LET ME ASK YOU THAT AGAIN.
YOU CAME THERE SHORTLY AFTER TWO O'CLOCK AND YOU
STARTED TO SHOOT AT THAT POINT?
A RIGHT.
Q I'M ASKING YOU NOW WHEN IS THE LAST TIME THAT YOU
SHOT BEFORE THE CRIME SCENE WAS TAKEN DOWN?
A THAT DAY. THAT DAY.
Q SO BACK ON JUNE 13?
A BACK ON JUNE 13.
Q YOU HAVE NOT SEEN IT SINCE?
A NOT SEEN IT SINCE.
Q AND HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY YOU SHOT BEFORE THE CRIME
SCENE WAS TAKEN DOWN?
A UMM, TOTAL TAPE TIME I WOULD BE UNAWARE, BUT WE WERE
THERE APPROXIMATELY ABOUT AN HOUR -- ABOUT -- YEAH, 45 MINUTES,
AN HOUR, 30, 45 MINUTES TO AN HOUR.
Q GOT THERE AT WHAT TIME?
A I GOT THERE APPROXIMATELY ABOUT RIGHT AROUND TWO
O'CLOCK, 2:00, 2:30.
Q OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME THE CRIME SCENE WAS
TAKEN DOWN?
A NOT EXACTLY, NO. LIKE I SAID, ABOUT 45 MINUTES AFTER
I GOT THERE.
Q IF THE CRIME SCENE WAS TAKEN DOWN BETWEEN 3:30 AND
3:45, WOULD THAT SEEM TO BE ACCURATE TO YOU?
A YEAH, THAT WOULD BE CLOSE.
Q CLOSE. SO IF YOU GOT THERE BY 2:00, BETWEEN 2:00 AND
2:30, YOU MIGHT HAVE AT LEAST AN HOUR, MAYBE AN HOUR, A LITTLE
BIT MORE?
IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
A YEAH, THAT IS A CORRECT STATEMENT.
Q AND WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT DURING THIS
PERIOD OF TIME YOU SHOT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THAT YOU THOUGHT
MIGHT BE RELEVANT DURING THAT TIME BEFORE THE CRIME SCENE WAS
TAKEN DOWN?
A YEAH. I THOUGHT WHAT I FELT WOULD BE RELEVANT TO
TELL THE STORY, SURE.
Q YOU SHOT THAT FROM ACROSS THE STREET; IS THAT
CORRECT?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHAT KIND OF A CAMERA WERE YOU USING OR LENS AT THAT
POINT?
A AT THAT POINT THE CAMERA WOULD BE A SONY 70 IS WITH A
14 AND ONE LENS WITH A TWO TIMES EXTENDER.
Q THAT REALLY CLEARS IT UP FOR ME, I TELL YOU THAT. I
HAD TO ASK THAT, DIDN'T I?
SO THERE WAS A CAMERA, A LENS THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU, I
PRESUME, TO --
A YES, IT WOULD.
Q -- ZOOM IN; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, IT WOULD.
Q SO YOU CAN GET THOSE CLOSE-UP SHOTS WE SAW?
A YES.
Q THE LAST TIME YOU SAW THAT FILM WAS ON JUNE 13 IN THE
POSSESSION OF INSIDE EDITION, RIGHT?
A YEAH.
Q IF WE WANTED THAT FILM OF WHAT TOOK PLACE BEFORE THE
CRIME SCENE WAS TAKEN DOWN, WE WOULD HAVE TO GO TO INSIDE
EDITION?
A IF YOU WANT ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES WHAT YOU ARE TODAY
TALKING ABOUT, YES, YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO TO INSIDE EDITION.
Q HOW DID YOU GET THIS?
A I DIDN'T GET THIS.
Q FROM INSIDE EDITION?
A THE NEXT TIME I SAW IT IT WAS IN MARCIA CLARK'S
OFFICE.
Q ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH GETTING IT? YOU WERE
JUST THE MAN WHO SHOT IT; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES.
Q ALL RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND.
AND SO THERE MAY BE AT LEAST AN HOUR OF FILM THAT
PRECEDED THE TAKING DOWN OF THAT YELLOW TAPE SOMEWHERE AT INSIDE
EDITION, RIGHT?
A I WOULDN'T SAY AN HOUR BECAUSE THAT MEANS I WOULD
HAVE RUN CONTINUOUS.
Q ALL RIGHT. HOW MUCH?
A BUT THERE IS MORE FILM, YES.
Q OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
AND THEN AT SOME POINT AFTER PERHAPS 3:30, AS YOU SAW
THE CRIME SCENE BEING TAKEN DOWN, YOU THEN CAME ACROSS THE STREET
AT THAT POINT AND GOT A CLOSER VANTAGE POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q ALL RIGHT.
DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT WHEN YOU WERE SHOOTING
DURING THE PERIOD AFTER 2:00 TO THE TIME THE CRIME SCENE WAS
TAKEN DOWN HOW MANY DIFFERENT OFFICERS YOU SHOT OR TOOK PICTURES
OF DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME?
A NO.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER WHETHER OR NOT ANY OF THE OFFICERS
THAT YOU TOOK PICTURES OF DURING THAT TIME FRAME WERE IN PLAIN
CLOTHES?
A NO, I DO NOT.
Q YOU USED THE WORD "WE" AT SOME POINT. WERE YOU BEING
ASSISTED BY SOME OTHER PERSON WHEN YOU WERE OUT THERE THAT
MORNING?
A SURE. I ALWAYS TAKE AN AUDIO MAN WITH ME.
Q OKAY. WHO WAS YOUR AUDIO PERSON THAT DAY?
A THAT WOULD BE JEFF WATTS.
Q IS HE ALSO FREELANCE?
A HE IS ALSO FREELANCE.
Q ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU ARE BOTH, YOU AND MR. WATTS, ARE THEN BOTH
HIRED BY INSIDE EDITION FOR THE DAY?
A WE WERE BOTH HIRED BY GOLD COAST WHICH PLACES US WITH
INSIDE EDITION.
Q OKAY. NOW, WHAT ARE OUTTAKES?
A WHAT ARE OUTTAKES?
Q YES, WHAT ARE OUTTAKES?
A OUTTAKES ARE BASICALLY WHAT YOU USE THAT WOULDN'T BE
IN ORDER, BUT YOU WOULD USE TO TELL A STORY. THEY DON'T
NECESSARILY HAVE TO COME FROM THE ORIGINAL FOOTAGE IN WHICH YOU
ARE SHOOTING.
THEY CAN COME FROM ANYWHERE, COME FROM A MOVIE. YOU
KNOW, YOU ARE TELLING A STORY, THERE IS AN INTERVIEW, YOU CAN
BRING A PIECE OF A MOVIE IN, A PIECE OF ANYTHING, AND USE IT, IN
OTHER WORDS, FOR OUTTAKES, IS BASICALLY B ROLL.
Q ALL RIGHT. YOU CAN JUST WORK IT INTO THE STORY?
A WORK IT INTO THE STORY.
Q IS THAT CORRECT?
A RIGHT.
Q ALL RIGHT.
AND WITH REGARD TO THIS INSIDE EDITION SHOW,
ALTOGETHER HOW MUCH WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU SHOT BEFORE THE TAPE
CAME DOWN AND AFTER THE TAPE CAME DOWN, IF YOU RECALL?
A WELL, I WOULD PROBABLY -- BEFORE THE TAPE CAME DOWN
I PROBABLY ROLLED ABOUT AROUND THIRTY MINUTES. I WOULD SAY
TWENTY TO THIRTY MINUTES. TAPES USUALLY RUN ABOUT 20 -- EITHER A
20-MINUTE LOAD OR A 30-MINUTE LOAD.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE USING THAT DAY, A 20 OR
30-MINUTE LOAD?
A INSIDE GENERALLY USES -- AT THAT TIME THEY WERE
GENERALLY USING 30-MINUTE LOADS.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT YOU USED MORE THAN ONE
TAPE PRIOR TO THE YELLOW TAPE BEING TAKEN DOWN?
A NO, DEFINITELY NOT.
Q SO IT WOULD ALL BE ON ONE TAPE?
A BEFORE, YES, IT SHOULD BE ON ONE TAPE.
Q AND THEN AFTERWARD DID YOU USE ANOTHER TAPE?
A YES.
Q AFTER THE TAPE CAME DOWN?
A YES.
Q ALTOGETHER THAT DAY WHILE YOU WERE AT THE SCENE HOW
MANY TAPES DID YOU USE ALTOGETHER?
A WHILE I WAS JUST AT THE BUNDY SCENE?
Q AT THE BUNDY SCENE, YES?
A UMM, I WOULD SAY IT BASICALLY -- IT SHOULD HAVE ALL
FIT ON TWO TAPES.
Q PERHAPS TWO TAPES?
A YES.
Q IS THAT YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION NOW?
A THAT IS MY BEST RECOLLECTION AT THIS POINT.
Q AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE BUNDY -- THE TWO TAPES
AT BUNDY?
A WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BUNDY.
Q OKAY.
THE PART THAT WE SAW HERE WITH THE TAPE TAKEN DOWN
AND THE LITTLE BOY SKATING BY ON THE ROLLER BLADES --
A RIGHT.
Q -- WOULD THAT BE ON TAPE 2?
A THAT I WOULDN'T HAVE A RECOLLECTION OF.
Q YOU DON'T KNOW?
A IT WOULD EITHER BE ON 1 OR 2.
Q ONE OR TWO OF THEM?
A YEAH. IT WASN'T LIKE A DEFINITIVE STOP AND START AT
THAT POINT.
Q OKAY.
THIS WHITE -- WAS IT A BLANKET OR A SHEET, IF YOU
WERE ABLE TO TELL, WHEN YOU GOT OVER CLOSER TO IT? WHAT WAS THAT
THAT HAD BEEN OVER ONE OF THE BODIES?
A UMM, AS FAR AS I COULD TELL IT WAS BASICALLY WHAT WAS
COVERING SOME AREAS OF THE CRIME SCENE.
Q RIGHT. I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING, DID IT APPEAR TO YOU
TO BE A BLANKET OR A SHEET?
A IT APPEARED TO BE LIKE A BLANKET.
Q IT WAS WHITE IN COLOR; IS THAT RIGHT?
A IT WAS QUITE, YES, WITH A TEXTURE TO IT.
Q SOME TEXTURE. DID YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT
AFTER -- WHILE YOU WERE THERE, THAT WHITE BLANKET?
A NO, I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOT SOME INDIVIDUAL
OR OFFICER MOVING THAT WHITE BLANKET TO SOME OTHER PLACE DURING
THE COURSE OF YOUR TWO ROLLS THAT YOU SHOT?
A YES. THERE WAS -- THERE WAS SOME MOVEMENT AND THE
BLANKET WAS MOVED.
Q ALL RIGHT.
AND AS YOU THINK BACK IN YOUR MIND NOW DO YOU
REMEMBER WHERE IT WAS MOVED TO?
A UMM, BASICALLY THE ONLY THING I CAN REMEMBER WAS IT
BEING MOVED IN THAT GENERAL AREA IN WHICH IT IS PLACED ON THE
TAPE NOW.
Q ALL RIGHT.
DO YOU EVER RECALL A TIME WHILE YOU WERE STILL THERE
THAT IT WAS MOVED OUT OF YOUR SIGHT, THAT WHITE BLANKET?
A NO, I CAN'T SAY THAT I DO.
Q ALL RIGHT.
THE LAST TIME YOU REMEMBER SEEING IT IT WAS STILL
THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THE LAST TIME I REMEMBER SEEING IT, YES, IT WAS
THERE.
Q ALL RIGHT.
NOW, IN ADDITION TO YOURSELF, WERE THERE OTHER
CAMERAMEN OUT THERE SHOOTING ALSO AT ABOUT THE TIME THAT YOU
ARRIVED, SHORTLY AFTER TWO O'CLOCK?
A THERE WERE SOME OTHER CAMERAMEN OUT THERE; HOWEVER,
WHEN THE TAPE CAME DOWN I WAS THE FIRST ONE -- PRETTY MUCH THE
ONE TO START ACROSS
THE STREET AND START SHOOTING.
Q WELL, LIKE A SCOOP THING, RIGHT?
A WELL, IT IS BASICALLY WHAT I'M BEING PAID FOR IS TO
COVER THE STORY, BUT NOT GET IN THE WAY.
Q ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU WERE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ACROSS THE STREET.
BEFORE THAT, HOWEVER, THERE WERE OTHER CAMERA PERSONS THERE; IS
THAT RIGHT?
A YES, I DID SEE SOME OTHER CAMERA PERSONS THERE.
Q DID YOU KNOW SOME OF THESE PEOPLE?
A ACTUALLY, NO, I CAN'T RECALL.
Q DO YOU RECALL ANY OTHER PROGRAMS OR SUCH AS YOU
TALKED ABOUT INSIDE EDITION AND GOLD COAST, I GUESS IT WAS, THE
OTHER PROGRAMS WHO WERE OUT THERE COMPETING FOR STORIES AT THAT
POINT?
A THE ONLY THING I REMEMBER IS WITH REGARDS TO THE
MEDIA, IS SATELLITE TRUCKS THAT WOULD ROLL BY, CHANNEL 7, 2,
KCAL, THEY WOULD ROLL BY.
Q LOCAL NEWS MEDIA?
A CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THE SCENE.
Q LOCAL NEWS MEDIA?
A LOCAL NEW MEDIA.
Q DID YOU SEE THEM ON OCCASION STOP AND SHOOT FOOTAGE
ALSO, THE LOCAL NEWS MEDIA?
A I DID SEE ONE PERSON AND I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER NOW,
I BELIEVE IT WAS 7, THAT WAS THERE.
Q YES.
A FOR A LITTLE WHILE AND THEN I BELIEVE THEY LEFT, AND
AS A MATTER OF FACT, I KNOW THEY LEFT AND PROCEEDED TO
ROCKINGHAM.
Q ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU SAW 7, CHANNEL 7, THAT IS ABC I
PRESUME?
A YES, THAT IS ABC.
Q DO YOU RECALL THE INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS DOING THE
SHOOTING?
A NO, I DO NOT.
Q ALL RIGHT. WAS THIS AT A TIME PRIOR TO THE TAPE
COMING DOWN?
A UMM, YES, THERE WAS. THEY WERE.
Q OKAY.
WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE AFTER TWO O'CLOCK THERE WERE
OTHER NEWS ORGANIZATIONS WHO WERE ALREADY THERE WHEN YOU GOT
THERE, IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
A YES, THERE WERE OTHER MEDIA THERE.
Q ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT.
YOU JUST CAN'T RECALL WHO THEY WERE AT THIS POINT OR
CAN YOU?
A NOT AT THIS POINT. I MEAN -- THAT WAS -- THAT ENDED
UP BEING FROM A DAY THAT JUST SEEMED LIKE IT WAS JUST GOING TO BE
SOME NORMAL -- NORMAL EVERYDAY QUICK SHOOT QUICK PICK-UP TO A
MEDIA FEST BASICALLY.
Q ALL RIGHT.
AND BY THAT YOU MEAN A MEDIA FEST, YOU MEAN THERE
WERE A LOT OF MEDIA?
A I MEAN A LOT OF MEDIA TURNED OUT LATER ON IN THE DAY
AND WE WERE AT DIFFERENT PLACES AND STUFF.
Q FROM WHAT YOU INDICATED TO US, AT SOME POINT -- YOU
LEFT BUNDY AT SOME POINT?
A YES.
Q AND ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS THAT, SIR?
A LEAVING BUNDY, I WOULD SAY IT HAD TO BE IN THE
NEIGHBORHOOD OF AROUND 5:00.
Q 5:00, SO YOU STAYED AT BUNDY SOMETHING MAYBE JUST A
LITTLE BIT SHORT OF THREE HOURS; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT WOULD BE CORRECT.
Q AND --
A TWO TO THREE HOURS.
Q TWO TO THREE HOURS?
A YES.
Q AND DID YOU COULDN'T TO SHOOT UNTIL THE TIME YOU
LEFT?
A YEAH, PRETTY MUCH, PRETTY MUCH.
Q AND OVER THAT TIME NOW OF THE -- IF YOU STAYED TWO
HOURS PLUS, COULD YOU HAVE SHOT MORE THAN TWO ROLLS IF YOU ARE
USING 30-MINUTE ROLLS?
A ACTUALLY PROBABLY NOT. WHILE I AM DOCUMENTING THINGS
THAT ARE GOING ON, I'M ALSO BEING SELECTIVE ON WHICH SHOTS I'M
TAKING.
IT TAKES TIME SOMETIMES TO SEE AND TO ACTUALLY BE
CREATIVE IN YOUR PROCESS OF HOW TO TELL THE STORY OR HOW TO MAKE
SURE IT IS READY FOR THE EDITORS TO TELL THE STORY AND THE
DIRECTOR OR THE PRODUCER TO TELL A STORY WHEN THEY GET BACK.
Q WAS THERE A DIRECTOR OR A PRODUCER AT THE SCENE THAT
DAY AT ALL?
A SURE THERE WAS A PRODUCER THERE.
Q WHO WAS THE PRODUCER?
A UMM, IT SHOULD BE MALCOLM, MALCOLM -- I DON'T
REMEMBER MALCOLM'S LAST NAME. SORRY, MALCOLM.
Q MALCOLM?
A SORRY.
Q OKAY. WELL, PROBABLY CALL IN AND TELL US. MALCOLM?
A I WASN'T THINKING ABOUT THAT.
Q OKAY. BUT IT IS MALCOLM AND HE'S A MALE?
A YES, HE IS.
Q OKAY. WAS HE WITH YOU THE ENTIRE TIME?
A YES. HE PRETTY MUCH DOGGED MY EVERY STEP.
Q ALL RIGHT. NOW I'M SURE HE WILL CALL IN.
WAS MALCOLM DIRECTING YOU WHAT TO SHOOT ALSO?
A NO. I MEAN HE WILL HAVE SUGGESTIONS AT A TIME AND
SAY, YOU KNOW, LET'S MAKE SURE WE GET THIS, LET'S MAKE SURE WE
GET THAT, BUT A LOT OF IT IS ALSO MY -- WE HAVE WORKED TOGETHER,
THEY KNOW I'M GOING TO DELIVER, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY NEED TO TELL
THE STORY, SO IF THEY SEE SOMETHING SPECIAL, THEY USUALLY SUGGEST
IT.
Q ALL RIGHT.
SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THIS IS CLEAR, THERE WERE AT
LEAST THREE OF YOU IN YOUR GROUP, THE AUDIO MAN, JEFF WATTS?
A YES.
Q MALCOLM, THE PRODUCER, AND YOU AS THE VIDEOGRAPHER?
A YES, SIR.
Q THERE IS NO LOG THAT YOU HAVE THAT WOULD TELL THE
EXACT TIME YOU GOT THERE?
A THERE IS A LOG WHEN WE CHECKED INTO GOLD COAST
COMMUNICATIONS. THEY WANTED US THERE BY 1:20. WE CHECKED IN AT
1:30, THEN WE PROCEEDED OVER TO INSIDE WHICH IS ABOUT FIFTEEN TO
TWENTY MINUTES AWAY.
Q PROCEEDED OVER TO WHERE?
A TO INSIDE EDITION.
Q WHERE IS THAT LOCATED?
A INSIDE EDITION IS LOCATED ON WILSHIRE BOULEVARD IN
THE -- I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT ADDRESS.
Q OKAY. BUT HOW FAR IS THAT FROM THE BUNDY LOCATION?
A UMM, FROM THE BUNDY LOCATION IT IS IN THE
NEIGHBORHOOD OF ABOUT 20 -- ABOUT 25 MINUTES, 20, 25 MINUTES.
Q YOU WERE AT INSIDE EDITION A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, I
PRESUME?
A RIGHT. WE BASICALLY WENT THERE TO PICK UP MALCOLM.
Q ULTIMATELY WHEN YOU DID LEAVE AT 5:00, DID YOU GO
OVER TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION?
A YES, WE DID.
Q DID YOU SHOOT FOOTAGE THERE ALSO?
A YES, WE DID.
Q WHO HAS THAT FOOTAGE?
A INSIDE EDITION.
Q YOU USED SOME DIFFERENT TAPES FOR THAT, I PRESUME?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
WHEN DID YOU TALK -- WHEN WERE YOU IN MISS CLARK'S
OFFICE? WHEN DID YOU HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH HER?
A THIS CONVERSATION WOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE ABOUT THREE
WEEKS AGO FROM THIS FRIDAY, I BELIEVE.
Q IN THIS BUILDING?
A YES, IN THIS BUILDING.
YOUR OFFICE IS IN THIS BUILDING, RIGHT?
MS. CLARK: (NODS HEAD UP AND DOWN.)
THE WITNESS: YES, IN THIS BUILDING.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU CAN'T ASK HER. YOUR BEST
RECOLLECTION?
A IN THIS BUILDING. SORRY.
MR. COCHRAN: NO PROBLEM. THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. I HAVE
NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, ANYTHING MORE FROM MR. SMITH?
MS. CLARK: JUST VERY BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR.
THE WITNESS: OKAY.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q MR. SMITH, FROM THE TIME YOU GOT THERE AND YOU BEGAN
TO SHOOT FOOTAGE AT BUNDY, WERE YOU ONLY FILMING THE CRIME SCENE?
A BASICALLY THE CRIME SCENE AND THERE MAY BE A SHOT OR
TWO OR ANYTHING ABOUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE YOU WANT TO SHOW
WHERE IT IS. EVERYTHING IS LOCATED.
Q DID YOU SHOOT ANY FOOTAGE OF NEIGHBORS THAT YOU
SPOKE TO?
A UMM, WE WENT UP TO A COUPLE OF HOMES TO ASK PEOPLE,
KNOCK ON DOORS, THAT KIND OF THING, TO SEE IF ANYBODY KNEW
ANYTHING, BUT GENERALLY NOBODY WAS HOME.
Q OKAY.
DO YOU HAVE ANY FOOTAGE OF THAT, TALKING TO ANY
NEIGHBORS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THERE?
A OKAY.
AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE ANY FOOTAGE OF THAT. THAT WOULD
BE INSIDE EDITION. THEY HAVE ALL RIGHTS AND EVERYTHING TO THE
FOOTAGE AND I -- WE DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO REALLY TALK TO ANY
NEIGHBORS BEFORE THE CRIME SCENE -- BEFORE THE TAPE WENT DOWN.
Q OKAY.
SO WAS THE CRIME SCENE TAPE COMING DOWN BASICALLY
YOUR BEGINNING FOOTAGE AT BUNDY?
A UMM, NO. THERE IS A LITTLE FOOTAGE BEFORE THAT
BECAUSE I WOULDN'T KNOW THAT THE CRIME SCENE TAPE WOULD BE COMING
DOWN, SO I SHOT BASICALLY THE AREA AND WHAT WAS GOING ON.
Q OKAY.
CAN YOU REMEMBER HOW MUCH -- FOR HOW MUCH TIME YOU
WERE SHOOTING BEFORE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE CAME DOWN?
A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)
Q APPROXIMATELY. I KNOW --
A THAT IS KIND OF -- I REALLY CAN'T ANSWER THAT --
ANSWER THAT. I MEAN, WE WERE THERE SHOOTING, KNOCKING ON SOME
DOORS, THAT KIND OF THING. MY BEST RECOLLECTION COULD BE 30 --
30, 45 MINUTES.
WE WERE ALL SURPRISED WHEN THE TAPE CAME DOWN, SO --
Q OKAY.
SO THAT 30 TO 45 MINUTES BEFORE THE TAPE CAME DOWN,
THAT WAS NOT JUST THE CRIME SCENE THAT YOU WERE FILMING THEN, IS
THAT --
A RIGHT.
MS. CLARK: OKAY. THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. COCHRAN:
Q SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, SO THAT WE ARE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR
HERE --
A YEAH.
Q -- DID YOU IN FACT SHOOT THE CRIME SCENE, A PORTION
OF THE CRIME SCENE BEFORE THAT TAPE CAME DOWN?
A RIGHT, YES.
Q BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHEN THE TAPE WAS COMING
DOWN, DID YOU?
A NO, I DID NOT.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.
THE WITNESS: YOU ARE WELCOME.
MR. COCHRAN: OKAY.
THE COURT: IS MALCOLM BRITISH?
THE WITNESS: I'M SORRY.
THE COURT: IS MALCOLM BRITISH?
THE WITNESS: I THINK HE IS BRITISH.
THE COURT: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME PERSON.
MR. SMITH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN. YOU
ARE NOW EXCUSED.
THE WITNESS: YOU ARE WELCOME. THANK YOU.
THE COURT: NEXT WITNESS.
MR. DARDEN: THE NEXT WITNESS, YOUR HONOR, WILL BE
DETECTIVE PHILIP VANNATTER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
PHILIP VANNATTER,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS
FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE
IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH,
THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
THE WITNESS: I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND
STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: MY NAME IS PHILIP VANNATTER, PHILIP IS
SPELLED WITH ONE "L." VANNATTER, V-A-N-N-A-T-T-E-R.
THE CLERK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MR. DARDEN.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DARDEN:
Q DETECTIVE, YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE LAPD?
A YES.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A POLICE OFFICER EMPLOYED BY
THE LAPD, SIR?
A 26 YEARS PLUS.
Q AND YOU ARE DETECTIVE TOM LANGE'S PARTNER; IS THAT
RIGHT?
A YES.
Q AND YOU WERE HIS PARTNER ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 13?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
NOW, I WOULD RATHER NOT DISCUSS ALL OF YOUR
ASSIGNMENTS DURING THE PAST 26 PLUS YEARS, DETECTIVE, BUT WHAT
YEAR DID YOU JOIN THE DEPARTMENT?
A IN JANUARY OF 1969.
Q WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO PATROL AFTER THAT?
A YES.
Q WHAT YEAR DID YOU FIRST BECOME A DETECTIVE?
A THE LATTER PART -- LAST PART OF 1971.
Q OKAY. NOW, AT SOME POINT WERE YOU TRANSFERRED TO
WEST L.A. DIVISION?
A YES.
Q THE SAME DIVISION WE HAVE BEEN HEARING ABOUT DURING
THIS TRIAL?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
AND DURING WHAT TIME PERIOD WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO WEST
L.A. DIVISION?
A I WENT TO WEST L.A. THE LATTER PART OF 1975 AND LEFT
THERE THE FIRST COUPLE OF MONTHS OF 1979.
Q OKAY.
AND WERE YOU A DETECTIVE THROUGHOUT YOUR ASSIGNMENT
TO WEST L.A.?
A YES.
Q YOU NEVER WORKED PATROL?
A NO.
Q YOU NEVER HAD ANY OR PERFORMED ANY PATROL FUNCTIONS?
A NO.
Q AND WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT ASSIGNMENT, SIR?
A I'M A POLICE DETECTIVE, LOS ANGELES POLICE
DEPARTMENT, ASSIGNED TO ROBBERY/HOMICIDE DIVISION, HOMICIDE
SPECIAL SECTION.
Q OKAY.
NOW, YOU HAVE WATCHED SOME PORTIONS OF THIS TRIAL,
HAVE YOU?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q YOU WATCHED DETECTIVE LANGE TESTIFY TO SOME EXTENT?
A SOME OF HIS TESTIMONY, YES.
Q NOT ALL OF HIS TESTIMONY?
A NO.
Q OKAY. YOU HAVE BEEN MONITORING THE TRIAL, HAVE YOU?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q YOU ARE A CO-LEAD INVESTIGATOR IN THIS CASE; IS THAT
RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
WHAT TIME DID YOU FIRST RECEIVE THE CALL REQUESTING
YOU TO RESPOND TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A THREE O'CLOCK THE MORNING OF JUNE THE 13TH, 1994.
Q OKAY. WHO CALLED YOU?
A LIEUTENANT JOHN ROGERS.
Q OKAY.
NOW, WHEN LIEUTENANT ROGERS TELEPHONED YOU DID HE
ADVISE YOU OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES AT BUNDY AS HE UNDERSTOOD THEM TO
BE?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID HE SAY?
A LIEUTENANT ROGERS TOLD ME THAT WE WERE ASSUMING THE
RESPONSIBILITY OF A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND THAT
ONE OF THE VICTIMS WAS BELIEVED TO BE NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.
Q OKAY.
AND HE TOLD YOU THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON WAS O.J.
SIMPSON'S EX-WIFE, DID HE?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND I TAKE IT THAT YOU CONSIDERED THIS A SERIOUS
SITUATION, THAT IS, A FACT THAT THERE WERE TWO DEAD PEOPLE ON
BUNDY?
A WELL, I CONSIDER ANY HOMICIDE CALL THAT I GO ON A
SERIOUS SITUATION, YES.
Q OKAY.
WELL, THE FACT THAT IT INVOLVED NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON,
DID THAT MAKE THE SITUATION SEEM ANY MORE URGENT OR IMPORTANT IN
YOUR MIND?
A THE ONLY THING THAT THAT TRIGGERED IN MY MIND THAT --
KNOWING THAT THERE WAS A CONNECTION TO MR. SIMPSON, THAT THERE
WOULD PROBABLY BE A LOT OF MEDIA, YES.
Q OKAY.
WELL, AT THAT POINT, THAT IS, WHEN YOU HEARD THAT
MISS SIMPSON MIGHT BE A VICTIM, DID YOU THINK IN YOUR MIND THAT
PERHAPS YOU SHOULD INVESTIGATE THE CASE DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU
WOULD ANY OTHER MURDER CASE?
A NO, SIR. EVERY HOMICIDE CASE IS IMPORTANT.
Q SO WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY, SIR?
A 4:05 IN THE MORNING.
Q OKAY.
AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED, WAS YOUR PARTNER, DETECTIVE
LANGE, THERE?
A NO, HE WASN'T.
Q AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED, WHERE DID YOU PARK YOUR
VEHICLE?
A I PARKED MY VEHICLE HEADED NORTH ON BUNDY ON THE EAST
SIDE OF THE STREET SOUTH OF DOROTHY.
Q AND WERE YOU GREETED BY ANY OTHER DETECTIVES?
A WELL, I APPROACHED TWO DETECTIVES THAT WERE STANDING
INSIDE THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY.
Q AND THESE TWO DETECTIVE, WERE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH
THEM PREVIOUSLY?
A NO, I DIDN'T KNOW THEM.
Q YOU NEVER MET THEM BEFORE?
A NO.
Q OKAY.
AND YOU INTRODUCED YOURSELF TO THESE TWO DETECTIVES?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
AND WHAT NAMES DID THEY GIVE YOU AT THAT TIME?
A I INTRODUCED MYSELF TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.
Q AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE
PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT THAT TIME?
A MAINLY WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. HE INTRODUCED
HIMSELF AS THE HOMICIDE COORDINATOR OF WEST L.A.
Q OKAY.
SO HE WAS THE SUPERVISING DETECTIVE AT THAT POINT; IS
THAT CORRECT?
A THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING, YES.
Q WAS FUHRMAN'S SENIOR?
A YES.
Q AND DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS BRIEF YOU ON THE SITUATION
AT THAT TIME?
A YES, HE DID.
Q WHAT DID HE TELL YOU?
A HE TOLD ME THAT THERE WAS A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AT THE
LOCATION, THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS HAD BEEN IDENTIFIED AS NICOLE
BROWN SIMPSON, THAT TWO MINOR CHILDREN HAD BEEN REMOVED FROM THE
RESIDENCE AND HAD BEEN TAKEN TO WEST L.A. DIVISION FOR
SAFEKEEPING, AND THAT HE HAD PREVIOUSLY SPOKEN WITH COMMANDER
BUSHEY ABOUT A PERSONAL NOTIFICATION.
AT THAT TIME I WASN'T REALLY TOO CONCERNED ABOUT
THAT.
Q OKAY.
AND AFTER YOU HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE
PHILLIPS, DID HE TAKE YOU SOMEWHERE?
A YES, HE DID.
Q WHERE DID HE TAKE YOU?
A WELL, I ASKED HIM TO GIVE ME A BRIEF WALK-THROUGH SO
I COULD ACCLIMATE MYSELF TO THE CRIME SCENE AFTER I INFORMED HIM
THAT WE WERE ASSUMING THE INVESTIGATION.
Q OKAY.
NOW, THIS REQUEST OF YOURS, THAT IS FOR A BRIEF
WALK-THROUGH --
A YES.
Q -- OF THE CRIME SCENE --
A YES.
Q -- IS THAT ROUTINE?
A ABSOLUTELY.
Q NOTHING EXTRAORDINARY OR UNUSUAL ABOUT YOUR MAKING
THAT KIND OF REQUEST?
A NOTHING AT ALL, NO, NOT SINCE I'M TAKING OVER THE
INVESTIGATION OF THE CRIME.
Q OKAY.
NOW, WERE YOU AWARE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD BEEN
TOLD EARLIER THAT MORNING THAT THE RHD DIVISION WAS GOING TO
ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION?
A I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND THAT. WAS I AWARE THAT HE
HAD BEEN TOLD?
Q YEAH.
A I WOULD ASSUME THAT BECAUSE I HAD BEEN TOLD THAT WE
WERE TAKING THE INVESTIGATION BY MY SUPERVISOR, SO I WOULD ASSUME
THAT THAT HAD BEEN RELAYED TO HIM, YES.
Q OKAY.
AND THE FACT THAT RHD WOULD ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR
AN INVESTIGATION, THERE IS NOTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THAT, IS THERE?
A NOTHING AT ALL, NO.
Q OKAY.
NOW, IF YOU KNOW, DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WHAT IS THE
RESPONSIBILITY, THE INVESTIGATIVE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE LOCAL
DETECTIVE UNIT IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS, THAT IS, WHEN THE RHD
DIVISION COMES IN AND ASSUMES RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE
INVESTIGATION?
A WELL, THEY -- THEY HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY, AT THE
TIME THAT THEY ARE INFORMED THAT WE ARE TAKING OVER, TO MAINTAIN
THE SECURITY OF THE SCENE; HOWEVER, UPON OUR ARRIVAL IT IS NOT
UNUSUAL FOR US TO ASK THEM TO ASSIST US IN THE INVESTIGATION TO A
POINT THAT WE CAN'T HANDLE IT OURSELVES.
Q WELL, ONCE LOCAL DETECTIVES LEARN THAT RHD HAS TAKEN
OVER, SHOULD THEY CONTINUE TO INVESTIGATE THE CRIME SCENE?
A NO, THEY SHOULDN'T. THEY SHOULD ONLY MAINTAIN THE
SECURITY AND INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE.
Q NOW, IT TOOK YOU APPROXIMATELY, WHAT, ONE HOUR AND
FIVE MINUTES TO ARRIVE AT THE SCENE THAT IS AFTER YOU RECEIVED
THE INITIAL PHONE CALL?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
AND SO DURING THAT ONE-HOUR-AND-FIVE-MINUTE PERIOD
THESE LOCALS SHOULD JUST STAND BY?
A THEY SHOULD MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME
SCENE, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q HOW MANY HOMICIDE INVESTIGATIONS HAVE YOU BEEN
INVOLVED WITH DURING YOUR STAY AT RHD?
A QUITE A FEW. AT RHD I WOULD GUESS MY OVER ALL CAREER
I CAN PROBABLY GIVE YOU A FIGURE. PROBABLY OVER 200 I HAVE BEEN
PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN.
I'VE PROBABLY BEEN AT THE SCENE OF MAYBE AS MANY AS
FIVE TO 600 HOMICIDES.
Q OKAY.
AND IN EACH OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE RHD TOOK OVER,
THE LOCAL DETECTIVES ALWAYS STOOD BY UNTIL RHD ARRIVED; IS THAT
RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT. THEY MAINTAIN THE -- THE INTEGRITY
AND ISOLATE WITNESSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
Q NOW, YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS
TOOK YOU ON A WALK-THROUGH?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
WHERE DID YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS GO FIRST, THAT
IS, AFTER YOU LEFT THE INTERSECTION AT DOROTHY AND BUNDY?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS -- WE WALKED NORTH ON BUNDY AND HE
TOOK ME TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE WALKWAY THAT LEADS TO THE FRONT
OF THE RESIDENCE THROUGH THE SHRUBBERY.
I STOOD BACK BEHIND HIM, A COUPLE OF FEET, AND HE
POINTED OUT ITEMS IN THE CRIME SCENE TO ME.
Q NOW, AS YOU APPROACHED THE CRIME SCENE FROM THE
FRONT, WERE YOU CARRYING A FLASHLIGHT?
A YES.
Q WHAT KIND OF FLASHLIGHT?
A A FOUR-CELL D BATTERY FLASHLIGHT, A LONG FLASHLIGHT
LIKE THAT. I DON'T KNOW THE BRAND OF IT.
Q OKAY. HOW LONG IS THAT FLASHLIGHT? HOW MANY INCHES?
A OH, IT IS PROBABLY I GUESS 14 INCHES MAYBE.
Q OKAY.
AND WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ALSO CARRYING A
FLASHLIGHT?
A AS I RECALL, YES.
Q OKAY.
NOW, YOU HAVE TOLD US THAT YOU HAD BEEN TO MANY CRIME
SCENES. WHEN YOU APPROACH A CRIME SCENE ARE YOU CAREFUL NOT TO
STEP ON THINGS?
A YES.
Q OKAY. WHY IS THAT?
A WELL, CAN I RELATE IT TO THIS CRIME SCENE?
Q OKAY.
A THIS WAS A VERY, VERY BLOODY CRIME SCENE. YOU DON'T
WANT TO CONTAMINATE THE AREA. THE AREA HAS BEEN SECURED, SO YOU
ARE VERY CAREFUL AND YOU PICK YOUR -- YOU PICK YOUR ROUTE VERY
CAREFULLY.
NOT ONLY DO YOU NOT WANT TO CONTAMINATE A CRIME
SCENE, I ALSO HAVE A LOT OF HEALTH CONCERNS REGARDING BEING
EXPOSED TO BLOOD, SO I TRY TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL TO KEEP BLOOD
OFF FROM ME.
Q AND SO YOU ARE SHINING THAT FLASHLIGHT ON THE GROUND
THEN I TAKE IT?
A EVERY PLACE, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q ALL RIGHT.
AND YOU ARE MAKING CERTAIN THAT YOU DON'T STEP ON ANY
EVIDENCE?
A YES.
Q YOU SAW OFFICER RISKE TESTIFY?
A YES. I SAW PART OF HIS TESTIMONY.
Q AND SERGEANT ROSSI?
A YES.
Q AND DID YOU ALSO WATCH THEM DRAW FOR US THE PATH THAT
THEY USED AS THEY APPROACHED A CRIME SCENE FROM THE FRONT?
A I DID.
Q OKAY. WAS THAT THE SAME PATH YOU TOOK?
A I WAS TAKING THE SAME PATH.
Q OKAY.
AND WHEN YOU LEFT THE CRIME SCENE, THE BUNDY, THE
INITIAL -- AFTER THE INITIAL WALK-THROUGH DID YOU GO OUT THE SAME
WAY YOU CAME IN?
A YES.
Q OKAY. WHY DID YOU DO THAT?
A TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE.
Q IS THERE A RULE IN HOMICIDE INVESTIGATIONS RELATIVE
TO WHETHER OR NOT ALL OFFICERS APPROACHING THE CRIME SCENE TAKE
THE SAME ROUTE AND EXIT THROUGH THE SAME ROUTE?
A WELL, I THINK IT IS AN UNWRITTEN RULE THAT IS TRAINED
AND TAUGHT TO OFFICERS BY OLDER OFFICERS THAT ONCE A ROUTE HAS
BEEN DETERMINED INTO A CRIME SCENE, NORMALLY THAT IS DONE BY THE
RESPONDING OFFICERS, ONCE THAT AREA OR THAT ROUTE HAS BEEN
DETERMINED AND BEEN WALKED ON, THEN WE ATTEMPT TO USE THE SAME
ROUTE TO KEEP EVERYTHING ELSE AS CLOSE TO THE WAY IT WAS FOUND AS
POSSIBLE.
Q OKAY.
SO I TAKE IT THAT YOU WALKED ALL THE WAY UP TO THE
GATE AREA OR MAILBOX AREA?
A WELL, YEAH. I WAS A LITTLE EAST OF THE SOUTH CORNER
OF THE GATE BACK IN THE FOLIAGE.
Q AND DID YOU VIEW THE BODIES AT THAT POINT?
A YES.
Q OKAY. USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT?
A YES.
Q COULD YOU SEE NICOLE BROWN?
A YES.
Q COULD YOU SEE RON GOLDMAN FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE?
A I COULD SEE HIM BUT NOT WELL.
Q OKAY.
DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS POINT ANYTHING OUT TO YOU AT
THAT TIME?
A YES, HE DID.
Q WHAT DID HE POINT OUT TO YOU?
A HE ILLUMINATED A PLANT AREA AT THE FEET OF THE MALE
VICTIM, RON GOLDMAN, AND HE ILLUMINATED A WHITE ENVELOPE THAT WAS
LYING THERE ON THE GROUND, AS WELL AS WHAT APPEARED TO BE A BLUE
KNIT CAP, A LEATHER GLOVE, A MAN'S LEATHER GLOVE.
Q OKAY.
AND HOW LONG DID YOU REMAIN THERE AT THAT SPECIFIC
LOCATION?
A VERY SHORT TIME.
Q OKAY. AND YOU BACKED OUT OF THE CRIME SCENE?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY. WHERE DID YOU GO AT THAT POINT?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOOK ME -- SHOWED ME THE FRONT
AREA. THERE APPEARED TO BE CANINE PRINTS THAT HAD COME FROM THE
AREA OF THE CRIME SCENE DOWN THE WALKWAY, AND HE INSTRUCTED ME
ABOUT THOSE, TOLD ME TO BE CAREFUL, AND HE WALKED ME SOUTH ON THE
WEST SIDEWALK OF BUNDY TOWARD DOROTHY.
AS I WALKED SOUTH HE POINTED OUT SEVERAL CANINE
PRINTS THAT APPEARED TO BE PRINTS IN BLOOD THAT HEADED SOUTH ON
THE SIDEWALK. HE TOOK ME TO THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND WE
TURNED WEST ON THE NORTH SIDEWALK OF DOROTHY AND THE CANINE
PRINTS WERE FADING OUT AT THAT POINT, WERE GETTING VERY LIGHT.
AND HE WALKED ME TO THE -- TO THE ALLEY, WHICH WOULD
BE THE NORTH/SOUTH ALLEY WEST OF THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE, TO
TAKE ME TO THE REAR OF THE LOCATION.
Q OKAY. SO DID YOU APPROACH THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH
BUNDY?
A YES, I DID.
Q IS THERE A DRIVEWAY IN THE REAR?
A THERE IS AN APRON. I -- I -- I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU
WOULD CALL IT A DRIVEWAY. IT WOULD BE MORE OF AN APRON TO A
GARAGE OFF THE ALLEY.
Q OKAY. WAS THERE A VEHICLE PARKED ON THAT APRON?
A YES, THERE WAS.
Q OKAY. WHAT KIND OF VEHICLE WAS THAT?
A IT WAS A JEEP CHEROKEE, BLACK IN COLOR.
Q YOU HAVE SEEN PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT JEEP CHEROKEE I
TAKE IT?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IT AGAIN?
A I -- IF YOU WANT ME TO, I WILL.
Q NOW, DID YOU WALK PAST THE BLACK JEEP CHEROKEE?
A FIRST WHEN I WAS TAKEN BACK THERE, I WAS DIRECTED TO
THE -- TO THE NORTH SIDE OF THE VEHICLE, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN
THE DRIVER'S SIDE AND IT WAS PARKED HEADED EAST ON THE APRON AND
DETECTIVE PHILLIPS POINTED OUT WHAT APPEARED TO BE A BLOOD DROP
ON THE PAVEMENT, AS WELL AS SOME CHANGE.
AND THEN FROM THERE WE WALKED BACK AROUND THE JEEP
AND ENTERED THE REAR OF THE LOCATION INTO THE RESIDENCE.
Q OKAY. SO YOU ENTERED THE GARAGE?
A THROUGH THE GARAGE INTO THE RESIDENCE, THAT'S
CORRECT.
Q AS YOU ENTERED THE RESIDENCE DID YOU THEN BEGIN TO
CLIMB THE STAIRS?
A YES.
Q AND WAS THERE A SMALL BANISTER TO THE LEFT OF THE
STAIRWAY?
A YES, THERE WAS.
Q DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING ON THE STAIRWAY?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS POINTED OUT AN ICE CREAM CUP
SITTING ON THE -- AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BANISTER.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU SEIZE THAT ICE CREAM CUP AT THAT PARTICULAR
MOMENT, DETECTIVE?
A I DID NOT, NO.
Q DID YOU EXAMINE THE ICE CREAM CUP?
A I LOOKED AT IT. I VISUALLY LOOKED AT IT FOR A SHORT
PERIOD OF TIME.
Q WELL, DID YOU STOP AND LOOK AT IT OR DID YOU JUST
LOOK AT IT AS YOU WALK PAST IT?
A I LOOKED AT IT AS I WALKED PAST IT.
Q OKAY. WHAT DID YOU NOTICE ABOUT THE ICE CREAM,
DETECTIVE?
A REALLY -- REALLY NOT TOO MUCH OTHER THAN IT APPEARED
TO BE MELTED ICE CREAM.
Q DID YOU CONSIDER THIS ICE CREAM TO BE A CRITICAL
PIECE OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE, DETECTIVE?
A AT THAT POINT?
Q YEAH.
A NO.
Q HOW ABOUT AT ANY OTHER POINT?
A NO. I'VE NEVER CONSIDERED IT TO BE A CRITICAL PIECE
OF EVIDENCE.
Q SO I TAKE IT YOU WALKED UP THE STAIRS; IS THAT
CORRECT?
A YES. I WAS -- I WAS LED UP THE STAIRS INTO THE
KITCHEN AREA, THROUGH THE KITCHEN TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE
LOCATION.
Q NOW, AS YOU APPROACHED THE FRONT DOOR, DID YOU NOTICE
WHETHER IT WAS OPEN OR NOT?
A THE DOOR WAS OPEN.
Q OKAY. NOW, WAS IT JUST YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AT
THIS POINT?
A YES.
Q OKAY. DID YOU SEE ANYONE ELSE IN THE HOUSE AT THAT
TIME?
A THERE WAS NO ONE IN THE HOUSE.
Q OKAY. AND DID YOU EXIT THE FRONT DOOR?
A YES.
Q OKAY. YOU WALKED OUT ONTO THE PATHWAY OR LANDING?
A YES.
Q NOW, PRIOR TO WALKING OUT THE FRONT DOOR, DID
DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CAUTION YOU IN ANY WAY?
A YES, HE DID.
Q WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU AT THAT TIME?
A HE TOLD ME THAT HE HAD OBSERVED WHAT APPEARED TO BE
BLOOD SHOEPRINTS AS WELL AS BLOOD DROPS LEADING WEST FROM THE
CRIME SCENE TOWARD THE ALLEY AND TOLD ME TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO
STEP ON ANY OF THOSE.
Q OKAY. YOU STILL HAD YOUR FLASHLIGHT IN YOUR HAND?
A YES.
Q DID YOU WALK OUT THE DOOR?
A YES.
Q WHICH WAY DID YOU GO AT THAT POINT?
A I STAYED TO THE SOUTH PORTION OF THE -- NEAR THE WALL
OF THE RESIDENCE ON THE OUTSIDE. THE PORCH LIGHT WAS ON GIVING A
LITTLE ILLUMINATION.
AND I WALKED UP EAST TO JUST THE -- JUST BEFORE YOU
START DOWN THE STAIRWAY TO WHERE THE VICTIMS WERE, USED MY
FLASHLIGHT AND I OBSERVED THE SCENE.
Q OKAY.
WERE YOU -- WERE YOU BETTER ABLE TO SEE THE SCENE AT
THAT POINT?
A MUCH BETTER, YES.
Q HOW MANY GLOVES DID YOU SEE THEN?
A ONE.
Q DID YOU EVER SEE TWO GLOVES AT THIS LOCATION?
A NOT AT BUNDY, NO.
Q OKAY.
DID ANY OFFICER EVER TELL YOU THAT HE OR SHE SAW TWO
GLOVES AT THAT LOCATION?
A NO.
Q AS YOU APPROACHED THE BODIES, AND THIS IS AFTER YOU
EXITED THE FRONT DOOR, DID YOU SEE ANY BLOODY FOOTPRINTS ON THE
LANDING?
A ON THE LANDING?
Q YES.
A YES.
Q ALL RIGHT.
A ACTUALLY -- ACTUALLY I SAW THE FIRST PRINTS, THEY
WERE POINTED OUT TO ME ON THE LANDING, AND THEN I OBSERVED WHAT
APPEARED TO BE MOLDED PRINTS ON THE -- ON THE STEPS COMING UP, AS
WELL AS BETWEEN THE TWO VICTIMS.
Q WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY "MOLDED PRINTS"?
A THIS WOULD BE WHERE THERE WAS BLOOD THERE AND A
PERSON STEPPED IN THE BLOOD AND IT LEAVES A MOLDED IMPRESSION OF
THE BOTTOM OF THE SHOE IN THE BLOOD ITSELF.
Q OKAY. YOU SAW THIS MOLDED FOOTPRINT ON THE STEPS?
A I SAW IT ON THE STEPS AS WELL AS BETWEEN THE TWO
VICTIMS IT APPEARED TO BE MOLDED ALSO.
Q OKAY. YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING THE TRIAL, RIGHT?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q WHY APPROACH THE SCENE A SECOND TIME AT ALL?
A ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MY SECOND APPROACH ON THE
LANDING?
Q YEAH, YEAH.
A I NEED TO ACCLIMATE MYSELF TO THE CRIME SCENE TO KNOW
WHAT EVIDENCE I HAVE AND WHERE THE CASE IS GOING TO LEAD ME SO I
CAN INSTRUCT THE PEOPLE THAT I CALL OUT TO ASSIST ME ON WHAT I
WANT RECOVERED, HOW I WANT IT PROTECTED AND WHAT I WANT DONE WITH
IT.
Q OKAY.
WHO IN FACT IS IN CHARGE OF THESE HOMICIDE
INVESTIGATIONS? IS IT YOU, THE DETECTIVE, OR IS IT THE
CRIMINALIST?
A IT IS THE DETECTIVE.
Q AND WHO DIRECTS THE CRIMINALIST?
A THE DETECTIVE.
Q OKAY.
AND IF YOU CALL OUT A FINGERPRINT PERSON, WHO DIRECTS
THE FINGERPRINT PERSON?
A THE DETECTIVE.
Q AND IF YOU CALL OUT THE CORONER, WHO TELLS THE CORNER
WHEN THEY MAY REMOVE THE BODIES?
A THE DETECTIVE.
Q DOES THE CORONER HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUST WALK INTO
YOUR CRIME SCENE AND REMOVE BODIES ANYTIME THEY WOULD LIKE?
A ABSOLUTELY NOT.
MR. DARDEN: IS THIS A GOOD TIME TO BREAK, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: IT APPEARS SO.
THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR
RECESS FOR THE MORNING SESSION.
PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU.
DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM
ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS
UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU, DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY
TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU REGARDING THE CASE.
WE WILL STAND IN RECESS UNTIL 1:30.
DETECTIVE VANNATTER, YOU ARE EXCUSED UNTIL 1:30, SIR.
THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
(AT 12:00 P.M. THE NOON RECESS
WAS TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF
THE SAME DAY.)
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, MARCH 16, 1995
1:30 P.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)
(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE
M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNSEL.
BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL
PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT. THERE'S MISS LEWIS.
ARE WE READY TO PROCEED?
ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS,
PLEASE.
MR. BAILEY: YOUR HONOR, WHILE THE JURORS ARE COMING IN --
THE COURT: I AM SORRY. MR. BAILEY?
MR. BAILEY: YES. AN EXHIBIT THAT WAS VIEWED YESTERDAY BY
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THROUGH THE ELMO HAS GOT A SPOT OF WATER ON IT,
BLURRED IT. MISS CLARK HAS AGREED THAT I MAY REPRINT THE FRONT
PAGE AND SUBSTITUTE IT. IT'S DEFENSE 102, AND I SIMPLY DIDN'T
WANT TO DO THAT WITHOUT THE COURT'S PERMISSION.
THE COURT: CERTAINLY. YOU HAVE THE COURT'S PERMISSION.
THANK YOU, MR. BAILEY.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE
SEATED.
ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE'VE NOW
BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL.
GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
THE JURY: GOOD AFTERNOON.
THE COURT: ANOTHER GREAT TIE AND SUSPENDER COMBINATION
THERE.
ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WOULD YOU RESUME THE
WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.
PHILIP VANNATTER,
THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE LUNCH ADJOURNMENT,
RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:
THE COURT: GOOD AFTERNOON, DETECTIVE VANNATTER.
THE WITNESS: GOOD AFTERNOON, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH, SIR.
MR. DARDEN, YOU MAY CONTINUE.
MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
GOOD AFTERNOON.
THE JURY: GOOD AFTERNOON.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)
BY MR. DARDEN:
Q DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WHEN YOU LEFT OFF, YOU HAD JUST
TOLD US THAT THE CORONER HAD NO AUTHORITY TO ENTER YOUR CRIME
SCENE UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT YOU GAVE THEM YOUR CONSENT OR
PERMISSION; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
Q BUT YOU DO HAVE A DUTY TO NOTIFY THE CORONER; IS THAT
RIGHT?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND WE HAVE SEEN ON THE ELMO A SECTION FROM THE
HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE AND LAPD SPECIAL LAWYER NO. 21?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THOSE?
A YES.
Q AND THEY INDICATE THAT YOU SHOULD NOTIFY THE CORONER
IMMEDIATELY; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT'S WHAT THEY INDICATE, YES.
Q OKAY.
WELL, YOU'VE BEEN A DETECTIVE 20 YEARS, RIGHT?
A ACTUALLY OVER 20 YEARS.
Q OKAY.
AND IN THE REAL WORLD, FROM A PRACTICAL POINT OF
VIEW, WHAT DOES "IMMEDIATE" MEAN IN THE CONTEXT OF YOU AS A
DETECTIVE CONDUCTING A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION?
MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION. VAGUE, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: "IMMEDIATE" TO ME MEANS WHEN -- WHEN IT'S
PRACTICAL FOR THEM TO RESPOND TO THE SCENE TO REMOVE THE BODIES.
THERE'S NO NEED FOR THEM TO BE THERE BEFORE THEN, AND THAT WOULD
BE AFTER I OR MY PARTNER HAD FINISHED THE SCENE.
Q BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY.
BUT YOU DO MAKE A FIRST CALL OR FIRST CALL
NOTIFICATION?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
AND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT FIRST CALL OR FIRST
NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER?
A THE FIRST CALL IS MADE SO THEY CAN SET THEIR
DEPLOYMENT AND THEIR MANPOWER SO THEY DON'T HAVE PEOPLE STANDING
AT SCENES FOR HOURS WAITING FOR THE DETECTIVES TO FINISH THEIR
WORK BEFORE THEY CAN REMOVE THE BODIES.
Q OKAY.
AND SO I ASSUME THEN AFTER YOU MAKE THAT FIRST CALL
OF NOTIFICATION, THAT YOU ALSO MAKE A SUBSEQUENT CALL OR SECOND
CALL?
A THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
MR. DARDEN: CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: AND WHEN YOU MAKE THE SECOND CALL OR
SECOND NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT?
A THE SECOND CALL OR SECOND NOTIFICATION IS MADE WHEN
WE DEEM IT TIME FOR THEM TO RESPOND TO REMOVE THE BODIES FROM
THE CRIME SCENE. THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE SECOND CALL, TO TELL
THEM TO ACTUALLY RESPOND TO THE SCENE.
Q ARE ALL CRIME SCENES ALIKE?
A ABSOLUTELY NOT. EACH CRIME SCENE IS AN EXPERIMENT IN
ONE. THEY'RE ALL UNIQUE AND THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT.
Q OKAY.
AND I TAKE IT THAT THE EVIDENCE YOU MIGHT FIND AT ANY
PARTICULAR CRIME SCENE VARIES?
A COMPLETELY, YES. IT WOULD BE -- IT WOULD BE A VERY
EASY JOB IF THEY WERE ALL THE SAME.
Q OKAY.
WHEN YOU CONDUCT A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION, DO YOU --
WELL, STRIKE THAT.
AFTER YOU EXITED THE FRONT DOOR AT BUNDY AND AFTER
YOU VIEWED THE BODIES FROM THE LANDING, DID YOU FOLLOW THE BLOODY
FOOTPRINTS THAT YOU DESCRIBED TO US EARLIER?
A I WAS LED ALONG THE FOOTPRINTS, YES.
Q YOU HAD YOUR FLASHLIGHT WITH YOU?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND YOU WERE LED BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS; IS THAT
CORRECT?
A YES, SIR.
Q OKAY.
HE ALSO HAD A FLASHLIGHT?
A YES.
Q AND YOU SAW THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?
A I DID.
Q DID YOU SEE ANYTHING ELSE OF INTEREST TO YOU AS A
HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR NEAR THOSE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A I SAW FIVE BLOOD DROPS THAT LED FROM THE AREA OF THE
BODIES ALONG THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SHOEPRINTS TO THE -- TO THE
MOUTH OF THE AL -- OR OUT TO THE END OF THE WALKWAY OUT ON THE
APRON OF THE DRIVEWAY.
Q YOU SAW FIVE?
A THERE WERE A TOTAL OF FIVE THAT I SAW, YES.
Q NOW, WHAT WAS THE SIGNIFICANCE THAT YOU ATTACHED TO
THESE BLOOD DROPS, IF ANY?
A WELL, THEY APPEARED TO BE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE
CRIME SCENE ITSELF. IT APPEARED TO ME THAT THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS
WERE BEING LEFT BY THE SUSPECT AS HE WAS EXITING WEST AND THAT HE
WAS EITHER BLEEDING HIMSELF OR WAS CARRYING AN OBJECT TO HIS LEFT
THAT WAS -- THAT WAS DRIPPING BLOOD. SO HE EITHER HAD AN INJURY
OR I HAD HIM DROPPING BLOOD FROM SOME OBJECT.
Q SOME OBJECT OR SOME INJURY TO THE LEFT OF THAT
PERSON'S BODY?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND YOU SAY YOU FOLLOWED THE SHOEPRINTS AND THE
BLOODY -- AND THE BLOOD DROPS RATHER?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND THEY WENT OUTSIDE OR RATHER YOU WALKED OUTSIDE
THE REAR GATE?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD DROPS OUTSIDE THE REAR
GATE?
A YES. THERE WAS ONE ON THE APRON OF THE DRIVEWAY JUST
NORTHWEST OF THE REAR END OF THE VEHICLE THERE.
Q OKAY.
AND THERE IS A POINT WHERE THE APRON TO THE DRIVEWAY
MEETS THE PAVEMENT IN THE ALLEY; IS THAT RIGHT?
A MEETS THE ASPHALT, THAT'S CORRECT. IT GOES -- THE
APRON IS CEMENT AND IT ENDS AT THE ALLEY, WHICH IS ASPHALT.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY DROPS OF BLOOD ON THE ASPHALT IN THE
ALLEY?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS IN THE ALLEY?
A NO.
Q THIS FACT -- THE FACT THAT YOU SAW NO BLOOD ON THE
ASPHALT IN THE ALLEY, WHAT SIGNIFICANCE IF ANY DID YOU ATTACH TO
THAT OBSERVATION?
A THAT INDICATED TO ME THAT MOST LIKELY, A SUSPECT HAD
ENTERED SOME MODE OF TRANSPORTATION, POSSIBLY A VEHICLE, AT THAT
POINT AND HAD LEFT THE SCENE. THAT'S WHY THERE WERE NO FURTHER
BLOOD DROPS.
Q NOW, AFTER YOUR ARRIVAL AT THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE,
WERE YOU EVER GIVEN ANY DOCUMENTS AT ALL?
A YES.
Q WHAT DOCUMENTS?
A I WAS GIVEN MARK FUHRMAN'S NOTES THAT HE HAD
COMPLETED BEFORE MY ARRIVAL.
Q AND WHO GAVE YOU THOSE NOTES?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q OKAY.
AND YOU'VE SEEN DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S NOTES ON THE ELMO
HERE IN COURT, HAVE YOU?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q ARE THOSE THE SAME NOTES DETECTIVE PHILLIPS GAVE YOU?
A YES.
Q AND DID YOU MAINTAIN POSSESSION OF THOSE NOTES?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS THAT DETECTIVE
PHILLIPS GAVE YOU THOSE NOTES?
A WOULD HAVE BEEN SHORTLY AFTER 4:05, MY ARRIVAL. WE
STOOD AND TALKED FOR APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES AND DURING THAT
PERIOD OF TIME, HE GAVE THEM TO ME.
Q NOW, AS YOU WALKED DOWN THE WALKWAY AT BUNDY AND
EXITED THE REAR GATE, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING ON THE REAR GATE AT
ALL?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHAT DID YOU NOTICE?
A I NOTICED WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOOD WIPINGS ALONG THE
UPPER RAIL OF THE GATE AND WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOOD DROPS ON THE
BOTTOM RAIL OF THE GATE.
Q AND WERE THESE BLOOD WIPINGS AND BLOOD DROPS POINTED
OUT TO YOU BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A THEY WERE.
Q YOU'VE TOLD US THAT YOU HAVE VISITED APPROXIMATELY
500 HOMICIDE SCENES; IS THAT RIGHT?
A APPROXIMATELY, YES.
Q OKAY.
AND ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS, ON HOW MANY OF THOSE
VISITS DO YOU WEAR BOOTIES OVER YOUR SHOES?
A I DON'T THINK I EVER HAVE. I CAN'T RECALL EVER --
EVER DOING THAT.
Q WELL, DID YOU THINK AT THE TIME THAT GIVEN THE
SUSPECTED IDENTITY OF THE VICTIM IN THIS CASE OR ONE OF THE
VICTIMS, THAT PERHAPS YOU SHOULD DO THINGS DIFFERENT OR
DIFFERENTLY FROM THE WAY YOU'VE DONE THEM IN THE PAST?
A THE ONLY -- THE ONLY THING THAT'S DIFFERENT WITH THIS
CASE THAN ANY OTHER CASE I'VE EVER HANDLED AND THE ONLY MORE
IMPORTANCE THAT I SEE IN THIS CASE THAN ANY OTHER MURDER I'VE
HANDLED IS THE PRESS COVERAGE. ANY MURDER I'VE HANDLED HAS BEEN
VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.
Q SO YOU DID IN THIS CASE WHAT YOU'VE DONE IN ALL THE
OTHER CASES?
A ABSOLUTELY.
Q OKAY.
WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER YOU EXITED THE REAR GATE AT
BUNDY?
A EXCUSE ME.
MYSELF AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WALKED BACK TO THE
FRONT TO THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY AND I AWAITED THE
ARRIVAL OF MY PARTNER WHO HADN'T ARRIVED THERE YET. I DIDN'T
WANT TO START THE INVESTIGATION WITHOUT HIM SO HE COULD BE
ACCLIMATED ALSO.
Q OKAY.
SO YOU WAITED FOR DETECTIVE --
A YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q DETECTIVE LANGE?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE BACK AT THE INTERSECTION
AT BUNDY AND DOROTHY?
A I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATELY 4:15 TO 4:20.
Q OKAY.
AND SO HOW LONG DID IT TAKE THEN; THAT IS, HOW LONG
DID IT TAKE TO DO THAT WALK THROUGH?
A 10 MINUTES AT THE MOST PROBABLY.
Q OKAY.
AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED BACK AT THE INTERSECTION AT
BUNDY AND DOROTHY, WAS LIEUTENANT ROGERS THERE?
A YES.
Q AND WHO WAS HE?
A HE WAS MY IMMEDIATE SUPERVISOR.
Q AND WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER THERE?
A YES.
Q AND WAS CAPTAIN DIAL THERE?
A YES.
Q AND WHO IS CAPTAIN DIAL?
A CAPTAIN DIAL IS THE PATROL COMMANDER FOR WEST LOS
ANGELES DIVISION.
Q OKAY.
AND WERE THERE OTHER POLICE OFFICERS THERE AT THE
INTERSECTION AT THAT TIME?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
NOW, AT SOME POINT, DID DETECTIVE LANGE ARRIVE AT THE
LOCATION?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT TIME DID HE ARRIVE IF YOU RECALL?
A 4:25?
Q AND DID YOU INTRODUCE DETECTIVE LANGE TO DETECTIVES
FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS?
A I DID.
Q AND WAS THERE ANY INDICATION AT ALL AT THAT TIME THAT
DETECTIVE LANGE HAD EVER MET DETECTIVES PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN?
A NONE WHATSOEVER.
Q AND DID YOU ASK DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO DO SOMETHING AT
THAT TIME?
A I DID.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU ASK HIM TO DO?
A I ASKED HIM TO GIVE MY PARTNER, DETECTIVE LANGE, A
WALK THROUGH OF THE SCENE ALSO AND THEN WE WOULD MEET BACK OUT
FRONT.
Q AND DID HE DO THAT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND DID YOU WAIT FOR DETECTIVE LANGE?
A I DID.
Q AND DID HE AT SOME POINT COME BACK TO THE FRONT OF
THE --
A YES.
Q -- PROPERTY?
A YES.
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT, DETECTIVE?
A WE CONFERRED IN THE INTERSECTION. I DISCUSSED IT
WITH MY PARTNER. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS THERE.
AGAIN, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD NOTIFIED ME EARLIER AND
HE HAD AGAIN BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT THAT HE HAD BEEN ORDERED BY
COMMANDER BUSHEY TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION, A IN-PERSON
NOTIFICATION. MY CONCERN AT THAT TIME WAS, I REALIZED THAT THIS
WOULD MOST LIKELY BE A VERY HEAVY MEDIA EVENT BECAUSE OF THE
IMPLICATIONS OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED.
I HAD BEEN EARLIER TOLD THAT THERE WERE TWO MINOR
CHILDREN IN CUSTODY, AND MY CONCERN WAS TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION,
MAKE A DISPOSITION FOR THE CHILDREN TO GET THEM OUT OF THE POLICE
STATION, TO MEET MR. SIMPSON, REALIZING THAT AT SOME POINT, I WAS
GOING -- MYSELF OR MY PARTNER WAS GOING TO HAVE TO INTERVIEW HIM.
SO WE MADE A DECISION TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION AT THAT TIME.
Q NOW, WE HAVE SEEN THE LAPD POLICY REGARDING
NOTIFICATION OF NEXT OF KIN -- OF NEXT OF KIN IN HOMICIDE CASES.
A YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT POLICY?
A YES, SIR, I AM.
Q AND THE POLICY DOES APPLY TO NEXT OF KIN; IS THAT
RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q NOW, MR. SIMPSON WAS MISS BROWN'S EX-HUSBAND, RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q DOES HE QUALIFY AS NEXT OF KIN?
A NOT TO THE VICTIM, BUT -- NOT TO THE FEMALE VICTIM.
HOWEVER, AGAIN, WE HAD TWO SMALL CHILDREN IN CUSTODY THAT HE WAS
THE FATHER OF THAT WE NEEDED TO MAKE A DISPOSITION ON. SO I
THOUGHT IT APPROPRIATE THAT HE BE NOTIFIED.
Q OKAY.
NOW, YOU TOLD US EARLIER THAT YOU HAD WORKED IN WEST
L.A. DIVISION SOME YEARS AGO.
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q I GUESS YOU LEFT -- YOU LEFT WEST L.A. DIVISION IN
1979 WAS IT?
A YEAH. I BELIEVE IT WAS EITHER FEBRUARY OR MARCH OF
1979.
Q OKAY.
WELL, DURING YOUR STINT AS A DETECTIVE AT WEST L.A.
DIVISION, HAD YOU EVER VISITED 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?
A I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER -- I THINK THAT WAS THE FIRST
TIME I WAS EVER ON THE STREET, WAS ON JUNE THE 13TH.
Q SO YOU WEREN'T FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA THEN?
A NOT AT ALL.
Q OKAY.
IT WASN'T DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S IDEA THAT YOU SHOULD GO
TO MR. SIMPSON'S HOME?
A NO.
Q WHAT WAS YOUR RANK AT THE TIME BY THE WAY?
A DETECTIVE 3.
Q AND DETECTIVE LANGE'S RANK WAS WHAT?
A DETECTIVE 3.
Q AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A DETECTIVE 3.
Q AND WHAT WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S RANK?
A AT THAT TIME, HE WAS A DETECTIVE 2.
Q SO YOU OUTRANKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
A YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q IN FACT, THREE OF YOU OUTRANKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN; IS
THAT RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND SO WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER YOU MADE THE DECISION TO
NOTIFY MR. SIMPSON OF NICOLE BROWN'S DEATH?
A DURING THE CONVERSATION, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD
INFORMED US THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD BEEN TO THE LOCATION ON A
PRIOR INCIDENT BACK A NUMBER OF YEARS AND HE ASKED DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN OR WE ASKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN IF HE COULD LEAD US UP TO
THAT LOCATION, AND HE INQUIRED -- I BELIEVE HE INQUIRED FROM
OFFICER RISKE AT THAT POINT TO GET THE EXACT ADDRESS AND THE
DIRECTIONS UP THERE.
Q OKAY.
AND AT SOME POINT, DID YOU PREPARE TO LEAVE FOR
ROCKINGHAM?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND WAS DETECTIVE LANGE TO GO?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
BUT A DECISION WAS MADE AS WELL TO TAKE FUHRMAN AND
PHILLIPS; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q WHY SHOULD FOUR DETECTIVES GO TO ROCKINGHAM TO NOTIFY
MR. SIMPSON?
A WELL, WE KNEW WE HAD A SITUATION. AGAIN, WE HAD TWO
SMALL CHILDREN THERE THAT NEEDED -- SOMETHING NEEDED TO BE DONE
WITH TO GET THEM OUT OF THE POLICE STATION.
IT WAS OUR INTENTION, MYSELF AND MY PARTNER, TO GO UP
THERE, MEET MR. SIMPSON SO WE COULD KNOW HIM AND ULTIMATELY
INTERVIEW HIM REGARDING THIS MURDER, AND WE BELIEVED THAT
PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN MAY BE ABLE TO ASSIST US IN THE DISPOSITION
OF THE CHILDREN AND HANDLING OF THE -- OF THE SITUATION.
Q WELL, YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU WANTED TO
INTERVIEW MR. SIMPSON AT SOME POINT.
A AT SOME POINT, YES.
Q OKAY.
WELL, DID YOU CONSIDER HIM A SUSPECT AT THAT TIME?
A NO.
Q DID YOU HAVE ANY NOTION AT ALL AT THAT TIME THAT --
A I DIDN'T KNOW WHO THE SUSPECT WAS. ANYBODY COULD HAVE
BEEN THE SUSPECT AT THAT POINT.
Q OKAY.
NOW, WE HAVE HEARD TESTIMONY THAT COMMANDER BUSHEY
ORDERED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO NOTIFY MR. SIMPSON PERSONALLY.
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU SPEAK TO COMMANDER BUSHEY?
A I DID NOT.
Q THERE IS A CHAIN OF COMMAND IN THE LAPD; IS THAT
CORRECT?
A YES.
Q A COMMANDER OUTRANKS A DETECTIVE 3, DOESN'T HE?
A WELL, THERE'S -- THERE'S ENOUGH STEPS BETWEEN HIM AND
I TO MAKE A LADDER, YES.
Q OKAY.
AND WHEN YOU ARE GIVEN AN ORDER BY A COMMANDER IN THE
LAPD, DO YOU HAVE A DUTY TO FOLLOW THAT ORDER?
A I HAVE TO FOLLOW THAT ORDER, YES.
Q YOU AND DETECTIVE LANGE GOT INTO ONE CAR AND DROVE
TOWARD ROCKINGHAM?
A YES. WE ENTERED MY CAR. I DROVE.
Q AND DETECTIVE PHILLIP -- PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN, THEY ENTERED ANOTHER CAR?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q NOW, PRIOR TO LEAVING BUNDY, DID YOU TELL SOMEONE
THAT YOU WERE LEAVING?
A YES.
Q WHO DID YOU TELL?
A LIEUTENANT JOHN ROGERS, MY SUPERVISOR.
Q OKAY.
AND WAS CAPTAIN DIAL NEARBY WHEN YOU TOLD LIEUTENANT
ROGERS YOU WERE LEAVING?
A CAPTAIN DIAL WAS IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY. HOWEVER,
I DON'T THINK SHE WAS STANDING IN THE -- IN THE TIGHT GROUP WHERE
I WAS TALKING TO HIM.
Q OKAY.
AND WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER STANDING NEARBY WHEN YOU
TOLD LIEUTENANT ROGERS YOU WERE LEAVING?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
I BELIEVE YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO THAT LIEUTENANT
ROGERS IS YOUR SUPERVISOR.
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
HE IS A SUPERVISOR WITHIN THE ROBBERY-HOMICIDE
DIVISION?
A HE WAS THE LIEUTENANT IN CHARGE OF THE HOMICIDE
SPECIAL SECTION. THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
AND SO HE'S PERFECTLY CAPABLE OF CONDUCTING A
HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION?
A I -- YOU'RE PUTTING ME ON THE SPOT. I WOULD -- I
WOULD SAY PROBABLY NOT AT THAT POINT.
Q I'M NOT GOING TO ASK YOU WHY YOU SAY THAT, BUT --
BUT AT ANY EVENT, HE IS CAPABLE OF MAINTAINING THE CRIME SCENE?
A OH, ABSOLUTELY. HE'S A SUPERVISOR.
Q OKAY.
WHEN YOU SPOKE TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ABOUT GOING TO
ROCKINGHAM, DID YOU ASK HIM HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO GET THERE?
A WELL, I DON'T THINK -- NO. I DON'T THINK I TALKED
ABOUT THAT. I BELIEVE I REALIZED FROM THE LOCATION WE WERE THAT
IT WAS NOT TOO FAR AWAY, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE BECAUSE
I WAS TOLD IT WAS OFF SUNSET BOULEVARD.
Q AND DID YOU HAVE ANY INCLINATION OR NOTION AS TO HOW
LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO GET TO 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?
A NO.
Q DID YOU EXPECT TO BE GONE FOR SEVERAL HOURS?
A NO.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU EXPECT TO BE GONE?
A A VERY SHORT TIME. WE HAD A CRIME SCENE TO DO.
Q YOU EXPECTED TO GO TO ROCKINGHAM AND INTRODUCE
YOURSELF TO MR. SIMPSON AND RETURN?
A MAKE A NOTIFICATION AND RETURN TO THE CRIME SCENE.
THAT'S CORRECT.
Q BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, DID IT?
A IT CERTAINLY DIDN'T.
Q HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO DRIVE FROM BUNDY TO MR.
SIMPSON'S HOME ON ROCKINGHAM?
A APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES.
Q WERE YOU SPEEDING?
A NO.
Q DID YOU RUN ANY STOPLIGHTS OR STOP SIGNS?
A NO.
MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: I AM SORRY.
HOW LONG DID YOU SAY IT TOOK TO DRIVE FROM BUNDY TO
ROCKINGHAM?
A APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES.
Q DO YOU RECALL THE ROUTE YOU DROVE?
A YES, I DO.
MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MR. DARDEN: I'LL COME BACK TO THAT.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
MR. DARDEN: HUH?
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU.
Q BY MR. DARDEN: DO YOU RECALL THE STREETS, THE ROUTE
THAT YOU TOOK?
A YES.
Q CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT ROUTE FOR US, PLEASE?
A YES.
WE DROVE NORTH ON BUNDY TO SUNSET BOULEVARD, AND I
BELIEVE BUNDY TURNS INTO KENTNER RIGHT BEFORE SUNSET BOULEVARD.
WE TURNED LEFT, WEST ON SUNSET, PROCEEDED TO ROCKINGHAM AND
TURNED RIGHT, NORTH ON ROCKINGHAM.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU -- DID YOU EVER DRIVE ON SAN VICENTE AT ALL?
A YES. THERE'S A VERY SHORT -- VERY SHORT JAG ON SAN
VICENTE WHERE YOU MAKE A LEFT TURN OFF OF BUNDY AND IN -- I
BELIEVE IT'S KENTNER THAT IS ACTUALLY THE EXTENSION OF BUNDY THAT
YOU MAKE A -- YOU TURN LEFT ONTO SAN VICENTE AND RIGHT
IMMEDIATELY ONTO KENTNER.
Q OKAY.
LET'S BACK UP FOR A MOMENT.
YOU DROVE NORTH ON BUNDY?
A NORTH ON BUNDY TO SAN VICENTE BOULEVARD.
Q HOLD IT. LET ME WRITE THIS DOWN.
OKAY.
NORTH ON BUNDY TO SAN VICENTE.
THE COURT: THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A COURT REPORTER. THAT'S
WHY WE HAVE THE COURT REPORTER.
MR. DARDEN: I CAN READ MY WRITING. I CAN'T READ HERS.
Q BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY.
NORTH ON BUNDY TO SAN VICENTE?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
AND WHEN YOU DRIVE ONTO SAN VICENTE, DO YOU GO WEST
OR EAST?
A WE TURN WEST, LEFT ON SAN VICENTE.
Q OKAY.
AND DID YOU SAY THE NEXT STREET WAS KENTNER?
A I BELIEVE -- I BELIEVE THAT'S WHERE KENTNER STARTS,
AND IT'S A VERY QUICK RIGHT TURN NORTH INTO KENTNER.
Q AND THEN YOU GO UP TO SUNSET?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU REACH SUNSET?
A YOU TURN LEFT WEST ONTO SUNSET.
Q AND WHAT IS THE NEXT STREET THAT YOU TURN ON?
A ROCKINGHAM.
Q AND WHAT DO YOU DO AT ROCKINGHAM?
A YOU TURN RIGHT, NORTH.
Q WHICH CAR WAS THE LEAD CAR?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS' VEHICLE.
Q AND AT SOME POINT, YOU ARRIVED AT 360 NORTH
ROCKINGHAM?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND YOU SAID IT TOOK WHAT, APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES
TO DRIVE THERE?
A YES.
Q YOU WERE DRIVING NORTH ON ROCKINGHAM WHEN YOU REACHED
THE PROPERTY?
A YES.
Q AND IS THERE A GATE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM, THAT IS
A GATE LOCATED ON ROCKINGHAM?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU DRIVE PAST THAT GATE?
A YES.
Q NOW, AS YOU DROVE PAST THAT GATE, WHAT IF ANYTHING
DID YOU NOTICE?
A WELL, AS I PROCEEDED NORTH IN THE 300 BLOCK OF
ROCKINGHAM RIGHT BEFORE YOU GET TO ASHFORD, I OBSERVED A WHITE
BRONCO PARKED AT THE EAST CURB JUST NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.
Q AND WAS THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THAT FORD
BRONCO THAT CAUGHT YOUR ATTENTION AT THAT TIME?
A WELL, YEAH. THERE WERE A COUPLE THINGS.
IT APPEARED TO BE THE ONLY VEHICLE IN THE AREA THAT
WAS PARKED ON THE STREET AND IT APPEARED TO ME TO HAVE BEEN
HASTILY PARKED ON THE STREET WITH THE -- WITH THE BACK END A
LITTLE FARTHER OUT THAN THE FRONT END AS IF SOMEONE HAD QUICKLY
PULLED IN AND JUST STOPPED AND GOT OUT AT THAT POINT.
Q AND WHEN YOU NOTICED THE VEHICLE IN THE MANNER IN
WHICH IT WAS PARKED, DID YOU -- DID YOU CONSIDER THIS
SIGNIFICANT?
A NOT AT THAT POINT, NO.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU DRIVE PAST THE BRONCO?
A YES.
Q DID YOU NOTE THE LICENSE PLATE ON THE BRONCO AT THAT
TIME?
A NO.
Q DID YOU OR YOUR PARTNER, DETECTIVE LANGE, ATTEMPT TO
RUN THE LICENSE PLATE AT THAT TIME?
A NO.
Q OKAY.
WHAT HAPPENED NEXT, DETECTIVE?
A I PULLED TO THE -- PULLED INTO THE ASHFORD
INTERSECTION AND PARKED AT THE SOUTH CURB OF ASHFORD JUST EAST OF
ROCKINGHAM.
Q AND WHAT TIME IN THE MORNING WAS THIS?
A APPROXIMATELY 5:10 IN THE MORNING.
Q AND WAS IT STILL DARK AT THAT TIME?
A YES.
MR. DARDEN: CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, LET ME SHOW YOU A
PHOTOGRAPH PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 63.
DETECTIVE VANNATTER, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE
INTERSECTION DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES, I DO.
Q IF YOU WILL PLEASE, CAN YOU DIRECT THE ARROW TO THAT
POINT OR LOCATION AT WHICH YOU PARKED YOUR VEHICLE?
A THE VEHICLE -- IF YOU COULD MOVE IT STRAIGHT --
STRAIGHT TO THE RIGHT THERE ON THE PICTURE, FARTHER, RIGHT IN
THAT AREA RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).
Q OKAY.
IF YOU WOULD MARK THAT SPOT WITH AN ARROW.
MR. DARDEN: I HOPE HE'S ON T.V. DOING THAT, YOUR HONOR.
ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.
Q BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, WHERE DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN PARK THEIR VEHICLE?
A DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF MY VEHICLE.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, THERE IS A GATE DEPICTED
IN THE BACKGROUND IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES, SIR, THERE IS.
Q IS THAT THE ASHFORD GATE?
A YES. THAT'S CORRECT.
Q NOW, FROM YOUR PARKED POSITION HERE IN THE
PHOTOGRAPH, CAN YOU SEE THE ASHFORD GATE?
A CAN I PUT MY GLASSES ON? IT MAY HELP.
I CAN SEE WHERE THE GATE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, BUT IT'S
VERY HARD TO MAKE THE GATE OUT ITSELF.
Q OKAY.
I TAKE IT THAT YOU AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES GOT OUT
OF YOUR POLICE VEHICLES?
A YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND DID YOU APPROACH ONE OF THE GATES?
A YES.
Q WHICH GATE DID YOU APPROACH?
A WE WALKED TO THE ASHFORD GATE.
Q AND THAT WOULD BE ALL FOUR OF YOU?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND ONCE YOU REACHED THE GATE, DID YOU RING THE BELL
AT ALL OR BUZZER?
A YES. IN FACT, SEVERAL OR TWO OR THREE OF US RANG THE
BELL.
Q NOW --
A AT DIFFERENT TIMES.
Q OKAY.
COULD YOU TELL IF ANYONE WAS HOME AS YOU STOOD
OUTSIDE THE ASHFORD GATE RINGING THE BUZZER?
A IT APPEARED TO ME THAT THE HOUSE COULD HAVE BEEN
OCCUPIED. THERE WAS A LIGHT ON IN THE BOTTOM TOWARD THE SOUTH
SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND THERE ALSO APPEARED TO BE A LIGHT ON AT THE
-- UP IN THE SECOND STORY OF THE HOME. I HAD -- IT APPEARED THAT
THERE SHOULD -- SHOULD BE SOMEONE THERE, YES.
Q ALL RIGHT.
DID YOU NOTICE IF THERE WERE ANY VEHICLES PARKED IN
THE DRIVEWAY AREA IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE?
A NOT AT THAT POINT. I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE -- A
LITTLE AFTER THAT THAT I NOTICED VEHICLES PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY.
Q DID YOU RING THE BUZZER?
A YES, I DID.
Q DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS EVER RING THE BUZZER?
A YES.
Q HOW ABOUT DETECTIVE LANGE?
A I BELIEVE HE DID ALSO.
Q AND DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN EVER RING THE BUZZER?
A I DON'T RECALL HIM DOING THAT.
Q WHEN YOU RANG THE BUZZER, COULD YOU -- COULD YOU HEAR
ANY NOISE EMANATING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE?
A YES.
Q WHAT NOISE DID YOU HEAR?
A I COULD HEAR RINGING COMING FROM THE INTERIOR OF THE
HOME.
Q SO YOU HAD PUSHED A BUTTON AND THEN YOU WOULD HEAR
RINGING INSIDE THE HOUSE?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND HOW LONG DID YOU AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES REMAIN
AT THAT GATE PUSHING THE BUZZER?
A PROBABLY 10 TO 15 MINUTES.
Q DID YOU EVER RECEIVE A RESPONSE FROM ANYONE INSIDE
THE HOUSE?
A NO.
Q DID THE LIGHTS REMAIN ON?
A YES.
Q NOW, AT SOME POINT, DID YOU NOTICE VEHICLES IN THE
DRIVEWAY?
A YES, I DID.
Q AT WHAT POINT WAS THAT?
A PROBABLY WITHIN 10 TO 15 MINUTES. I WALKED AROUND
AND LOOKED AT THE BRONCO PARKED THERE. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS
ALREADY AT THE BRONCO AND I LOOKED -- I LOOKED DOWN THE
ROCKINGHAM GATE DRIVEWAY TO SEE IF THERE WAS A WAY I COULD GET TO
THE FRONT DOOR TO KNOCK ON THE DOOR, AND THAT GATE WAS SECURED.
I OBSERVED TWO VEHICLES PARKED IN THAT DRIVEWAY.
Q OKAY.
LET'S GO BACK FOR A MOMENT.
AT SOME POINT, YOU LEFT THE ASHFORD GATE; IS THAT
RIGHT?
A YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
AND WHERE DID YOU GO AT THAT TIME?
A I CAME OUT TO ROCKINGHAM AND WALKED DOWN ROCKINGHAM
TOWARD THE BRONCO.
Q WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WITH YOU INITIALLY, THAT IS
WHEN YOU BEGAN RINGING THE BUZZER?
A YES.
Q HE LEFT AT SOME POINT?
A YEAH.
ALL OF THIS IS OCCURRING AT ONE TIME. WHILE WE'RE
RINGING THE BUZZER --
TO PUT IT IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, WHILE WE'RE RINGING
THE BUZZER, I OBSERVED A WESTEC SIGN ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE
ASHFORD GATE. I WAS AWARE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD A CELLULAR
PHONE, AND I ASKED HIM TO MAKE A PHONE CALL TO WEST -- TO THE
SECURITY COMPANY TO SEE IF WE COULD GET A PHONE NUMBER TO THE
RESIDENCE.
HE WALKED TO THE VEHICLE --
Q POLICE VEHICLE?
A -- HIS POLICE VEHICLE TO GET HIS TELEPHONE. I WALKED
OUT TOWARD THE INTERSECTION AT THE SAME TIME DETECTIVE FUHRMAN
WALKED WITH US BACK TOWARD THE POLICE VEHICLE.
I STOOD THERE IN THE INTERSECTION AS DETECTIVE
PHILLIPS WAS MAKING PHONE CALLS. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WALKED DOWN
TOWARD THE VEHICLE. I COULD SEE HIM AT ALL TIMES.
Q YOU COULD SEE DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WALK TOWARD THE
BRONCO PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM?
A YES.
Q AND AT SOME POINT, YOU -- YOU ALSO WALKED TOWARD THE
BRONCO LOCATED ON ROCKINGHAM?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND WHY DID YOU WALK TOWARD THE BRONCO?
A AGAIN, I WANTED TO SEE REGARDING THE ROCKINGHAM GATE,
IF THERE WAS A POSSIBLE WAY TO GET TO THE FRONT DOOR TO KNOCK ON
THE FRONT DOOR OR SEE WHAT I COULD SEE FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE OF
THE HOME.
MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, WE HAVE PRINTED A COPY OF THE
PHOTOGRAPH JUST SHOWN ON THE ELMO. MAY IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S
63-D?
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
63-D AS IN DAVID.
(PEO'S 63 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: I'M SORRY.
YOU SAID YOU WALKED TOWARD THE BRONCO?
A THAT'S CORRECT, TO GET A PERSPECTIVE OF THE HOME AND
THE AREA TO SEE IF THERE WAS A WAY I COULD GET TO THE FRONT DOOR
>FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.
Q OKAY.
WHO REACHED THE BRONCO FIRST, YOU OR DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN?
A DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.
Q OKAY.
AND WAS HE IN YOUR VIEW AT ALL TIMES?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND AS YOU REACHED THE BRONCO, DID HE SAY ANYTHING TO
YOU?
A YES.
Q DID HE POINT SOMETHING OUT TO YOU?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID HE POINT OUT TO YOU?
A HE POINTED OUT A STICK ON THE PARKWAY AND SOME
ARTICLES THAT WERE IN THE CARGO AREA OF THE VEHICLE.
Q AND DID YOU PICK THAT STICK UP?
A NO.
Q HOW CLOSE TO THE STICK DID YOU COME?
A I OBSERVED IT FROM MAYBE THREE OR FOUR FEET AWAY.
Q OKAY.
AND DID YOU LOOK TO THE REAR OF THE BRONCO?
A I DID.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU SEE INSIDE?
A I NOTICED A SHOVEL AND WHAT APPEARED TO BE A PIECE OF
PLASTIC IN A POCKET AREA ALONG THE PASSENGER'S REAR -- REAR CARGO
AREA AND WHAT APPEARED TO BE A WHITE CLOTH OR SOMETHING IN THE
BACK OF THE CAR.
Q NOW, WHAT SIGNIFICANCE IF ANY DID YOU ATTACH TO THE
STICK LYING ON THE PARKWAY THERE?
A WELL, AT THAT POINT, IT JUST DIDN'T SEEM TO FIT THE
AREA AND THE LOCATION. IT WAS A FOREIGN OBJECT IN A MANICURED --
MANICURED NEIGHBORHOOD.
Q AND WHAT SIGNIFICANCE IF ANY DID YOU ATTACH TO THE
SHOVEL LOCATED IN THE REAR OF THE BRONCO?
A NONE AT THAT POINT.
Q AND WHAT SIGNIFICANCE IF ANY DID YOU ATTACH TO THE --
YOU SAID YOU SAW A PLASTIC BAG?
A WHAT APPEARED TO BE, YEAH, FOLDED-UP PLASTIC.
Q AND DID YOU CONSIDER THAT SIGNIFICANT AT ALL AT THE
TIME?
A AT THAT MOMENT, NO. I -- WHILE I WAS LOOKING IN,
THERE WAS A PACKAGE IN THE BACK ALSO THAT WAS ADDRESSED I
BELIEVE ORENTHAL PRODUCTIONS, AND I KNEW MR. SIMPSON'S NAME WAS
ORENTHAL JAMES. I KNEW THAT.
SO I BELIEVED AT THAT POINT, THAT POSSIBLY THIS WAS
HIS VEHICLE. I ASKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TO DO A DEPARTMENT OF
MOTOR VEHICLE CHECK ON THE VEHICLE.
Q NOW, UP TO THIS POINT, HAD YOU NOTICED ANY BLOOD ON
THE DOORS?
A NO.
Q WELL, WHAT HAPPENED AFTER YOU OBSERVED THE SHOVEL AND
THE BAG AND THE PACKAGE IN THE REAR OF THE BRONCO?
A I LOOKED DOWN THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY. I SAW
VEHICLES AND I WALKED BACK TOWARD THE INTERSECTION OF ASHFORD
WHERE I OBSERVED A WESTEC UNIT THAT HAD PULLED UP AND APPARENTLY
HAD BEEN STOPPED BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I WALKED UP TO THAT LOCATION. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS
HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE WESTEC OFFICER, WAS REQUESTING THE
TELEPHONE NUMBER FOR THE LOCATION.
Q NOW, AT SOME POINT, DID YOU NOTICE A BLOOD SPOT --
A YES.
Q -- ON THE BRONCO?
A YES.
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN CAME TO ME AND TOLD ME THAT THE
VEHICLE WAS REGISTERED TO HORTZ -- TO HERTZ CORPORATION. WHILE I
WAS STANDING IN THE STREET, HE WALKED BACK TO THE BRONCO, WAS
THERE A VERY SHORT TIME AND WALKED A LITTLE WAY BACK UP THE
STREET AND CALLED ME TO COME BACK TO THE BRONCO.
Q AND DID YOU GO OVER TO THE BRONCO?
A I DID.
Q ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU WENT TO THE BRONCO
THE SECOND TIME?
A APPROXIMATELY 5:30 IN THE MORNING.
Q OKAY.
AND DID YOU VIEW A SPOT ON THE BRONCO?
A HE POINTED OUT A SPOT ABOVE THE DRIVER'S DOOR HANDLE
THAT APPEARED TO BE A REDDISH BROWNISH TYPE STAIN THAT LOOKED
LIKE BLOOD TO ME.
MR. DARDEN: CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT?
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN
MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 62, THE BOARD LABELED BRONCO EXTERIOR, IF YOU
CAN GRAB THE POINTER AND STEP OFF THE WITNESS STAND FOR A FEW
MOMENTS, PLEASE.
A UH-HUH.
Q DETECTIVE, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO 62-A, THE
FIRST PHOTOGRAPH HERE, DOES THAT DEPICT THE LOCATION OF THE
BRONCO WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT?
A YES. THAT'S WHERE THE BRONCO WAS PARKED WHEN I FIRST
SAW IT WHEN I DROVE UP THE STREET.
Q OKAY.
AND THAT IS NEAR THE DRIVEWAY ON ROCKINGHAM; IS THAT
CORRECT?
A JUST NORTH OF THE DRIVEWAY, YES.
Q NOW, YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU DID AT SOME
POINT SEE TWO VEHICLES LOCATED OR PARKED RATHER IN THE DRIVEWAY
BEHIND THE GATE?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q OKAY.
WAS THERE ROOM ON THE DRIVEWAY OR IN THE DRIVEWAY TO
PARK THIS BRONCO?
A THERE WAS A LOT OF ROOM TO PARK ON THE -- ON THE
GROUNDS, YES.
Q OKAY.
DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO 62-A, WHICH WOULD BE THE
MIDDLE PHOTOGRAPH, WHAT'S DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
A THAT'S CRIMINALIST DENNIS FUNG APPARENTLY HOLDING --
POINTING OUT THE SPOT ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE WHILE IT'S BEING
PHOTOGRAPHED.
Q NOW, DENNIS FUNG IS A CRIMINALIST; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q IT'S HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO COLLECT BIOLOGICAL
EVIDENCE?
A YES.
Q BLOOD FOR INSTANCE?
A YES.
Q AND AT SOME POINT THAT MORNING, DID YOU ASK SOMEONE
TO CALL FOR A CRIMINALIST?
A YES.
Q WHEN?
A APPROXIMATELY 5:30 WHEN IT WAS POINTED OUT TO ME BY
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. THERE WAS A BLACK AND WHITE THAT HAD JUST
RESPONDED TO THE LOCATION. I ASKED THEM TO MAKE -- TO MAKE A
CALL TO GET A CRIMINALIST ROLLING TO THE LOCATION.
Q AND WHY DID YOU WANT A CRIMINALIST AT THE LOCATION?
A WELL, AT THAT POINT, REALIZING THAT I HAD JUST LEFT A
VERY BRUTAL MURDER SCENE, THAT THIS WAS IN A VERY CLOSE PROXIMITY
TO THAT MURDER SCENE, THAT IT APPEARED THERE SHOULD BE PEOPLE AT
THE HOME THERE AND WE WERE GETTING NO RESPONSE -- WE HAD ALSO
LEARNED THAT THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A LIVE-IN MAID AT THAT
POINT WITHIN THE RESIDENCE -- I BECOME CONCERNED THAT THIS COULD
BE ANOTHER CRIME SCENE, SOMEONE COULD HAVE BEEN -- THIS COULD BE
AN EXTENSION OF THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE WHERE SOMEONE COULD HAVE
BEEN KILLED OR INJURED OR HURT THERE. AND I KNEW THAT IF IN FACT
THAT WAS THE SITUATION, THAT I WAS GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A
CRIMINALIST THERE.
Q AND SO YOU CALLED FOR ONE?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q NOW, HAD YOU ALREADY CALLED FOR A CRIMINALIST FOR THE
BUNDY MURDER SCENE?
A NO, I HADN'T.
Q WHY NOT?
A BECAUSE IT WAS MY INTENTION TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION AT
THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION, RETURN IMMEDIATELY TO THE BUNDY SCENE;
AND AT THAT POINT, I WOULD HAVE CALLED FOR MY SCIENTIFIC PEOPLE.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU EVER DISCUSS WITH DETECTIVE LANGE THE
POSSIBILITY THAT YOU COULD HAVE MR. FUNG HANDLE BOTH CRIME
SCENES?
A DID I DISCUSS THAT WITH HIM?
Q YEAH.
A I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK THAT WAS A GIVEN.
ONCE WE HAD A CRIMINALIST THERE, WE HAD WHAT APPEARED
TO BE A -- AN EXTENSION OF THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE ONCE I SEEN WHAT
WAS THERE. SO THE CRIMINALIST WOULD LOGICALLY HANDLE BOTH CRIME
SCENES.
Q OKAY.
A FOR THE PRESERVATION AND BOOKING OF THE EVIDENCE.
Q OKAY. DID YOU EXPECT A CRIMINALIST TO HANDLE OR
RATHER GATHER ANY EVIDENCE OTHER THAN BLOOD -- THAN BLOOD LOCATED
ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE BRONCO?
A AT THAT POINT, I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS OTHER EVIDENCE
THERE.
Q OKAY.
THIS WAS ALL YOU KNEW ABOUT THEN, THAT IS THE BLOOD
ON THE SIDE OF THE BRONCO.
A EXACTLY.
Q NOW, WHAT DID YOU WANT THE CRIMINALIST TO DO ONCE HE
ARRIVED AT ROCKINGHAM?
A TO DO A PRESUMPTIVE TEST ON THE SPOT TO TELL ME
WHETHER IT WAS BLOOD OR NOT.
Q AND HOW LONG WOULD THAT TAKE?
A OH, THAT COULD -- THAT'S DONE VERY, VERY QUICKLY.
WITHIN A MINUTE OR SO.
Q AND AFTER THAT, AFTER GETTING THOSE RESULTS, YOU
WOULD HAVE DISPATCHED A CRIMINALIST DOWN TO BUNDY?
A EXACTLY.
Q SHOWING YOU 63 -- I AM SORRY -- 62-C, THE THIRD
PHOTOGRAPH, WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
A THAT'S A CLOSE-UP VIEW OF WHAT'S BEING POINTED OUT IN
THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH HERE, PHOTOGRAPHER SCALE AND THE NUMBER --
AND THE NUMBER 1 THERE THAT'S BEING PHOTOGRAPHED OF THE SPOT ON
THE SIDE OF THE CAR.
Q NOW, IS THAT THE SPOT YOU SAW THAT MORNING?
A YES, IT IS.
Q 62-D, THE BOTTOM LEFT HAND PHOTOGRAPH HERE?
A YES.
Q WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
A THAT SHOWS THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, THE REAR OF THE
BRONCO AND THE NUMBERS PAINTED ON THE CURB TO THE RESIDENCE, 360.
Q OKAY.
YOU MENTIONED EARLIER OR RATHER YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER
THAT THE BRONCO WAS PARKED IN SOME MANNER THAT YOU FOUND SOMEWHAT
UNUSUAL; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YEAH. IT APPEARED TO HAVE BEEN HASTILY MARKED, YES.
Q OKAY.
62-E, THAT'S A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE REAR OF THE BRONCO;
IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES.
Q IT SHOWS THE CURB AS WELL?
A YES.
Q AND IS THAT THE MANNER IN WHICH THE BRONCO WAS PARKED
WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND THE FINAL PHOTOGRAPH ON PEOPLE'S 62, WHAT'S SHOWN
IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
A THAT'S A PHOTOGRAPH FROM OUTSIDE THE VEHICLE INTO THE
CARGO AREA THAT SHOWS THE PACKAGE AND A PORTION OF THE SHOVEL
AND SOME OTHER ITEMS THAT WERE IN THERE.
Q OKAY.
THANK YOU, DETECTIVE.
THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, I WAS JUST WONDERING IF YOU WANTED
TO SHOW THAT TO THE FOLKS DOWN AT THE OTHER END SINCE YOU WERE
STANDING BETWEEN --
MR. DARDEN: I AM SORRY, YOUR HONOR.
(THE BOARD WAS SHOWN TO THE JURORS.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, YOU TOLD US YOU CALLED FOR
A CRIMINALIST AROUND 5:30; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
Q AND THIS IS IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU SAW THE BLOOD SPOT
ON THE DOOR?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN POINT OUT ANY OTHER BLOODSTAINS
OR SPOT OR SPOTS AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME TO YOU?
A YOU KNOW, HE MAY HAVE, BUT I DON'T REALLY RECALL. I
-- I -- I DON'T REALLY RECALL IF HE DID OR NOT TO ME.
Q OKAY.
SO WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER YOU NOTICED THE BLOOD SPOT
AND AFTER YOU NOTICED -- OR STRIKE THAT.
WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER YOU CALLED FOR A CRIMINALIST?
A I TOLD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT WITH THE INFORMATION I
HAD, I WAS VERY CONCERNED REGARDING THE OCCUPANTS OF THE HOME,
THAT SOMETHING COULD BE WRONG, THAT I FELT THAT WE NEEDED TO GO
AND CHECK AND THAT I WANTED TO CONFER WITH MY PARTNER.
WE WALKED UP TOWARD THE ASHFORD GATE, MET MY PARTNER
AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. WE WENT TO THE ASHFORD GATE, MY PARTNER
AND I DISCUSSED IT AND WE MADE A DECISION THAT WE NEEDED TO GO IN
AND FIND OUT IF EVERYTHING WAS OKAY.
Q OKAY.
WAS THE BLACK AND WHITE STILL THERE?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
NOW, YOU TOLD US A LITTLE WHILE AGO THAT DETECTIVE
PHILLIPS HAD ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT WESTEC SECURITY ON HIS CELLULAR
TELEPHONE.
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q NOW, AT ANY TIME PRIOR TO YOUR ENTRY ONTO THE
PROPERTY, DID A WESTEC SECURITY VEHICLE ARRIVE?
A TWO. TWO WESTEC VEHICLES ARRIVED.
Q AND DID YOU SPEAK TO EITHER OF THE OCCUPANTS OF THOSE
VEHICLES?
A I DIDN'T PERSONALLY SPEAK, BUT I WAS STANDING BACK
WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TALKED TO THEM, YES.
Q WELL, THE FIRST VEHICLE THAT ARRIVED, DO YOU RECALL
WHAT TIME THAT VEHICLE ARRIVED?
A THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SHORTLY BEFORE 5:30 IN THE
MORNING I BELIEVE.
Q AND DID YOU OR ANY OTHER DETECTIVE ASK FOR THE
TELEPHONE NUMBER INSIDE THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE?
A YES.
Q AND WERE YOU GIVEN THAT NUMBER?
A ULTIMATELY, YES.
Q HOW LONG DID IT TAKE TO GET THAT NUMBER?
A PROBABLY 10 MINUTES.
Q OKAY.
AND YOU SAY THAT A SECOND WESTEC SECURITY VEHICLE
ARRIVED?
A YES. A SUPERVISOR.
Q WHO GAVE YOU THE NUMBER? WAS IT THE SUPERVISOR?
A THE ORIGINAL UNIT THAT RESPONDED ULTIMATELY GAVE US
THE NUMBER.
Q OKAY.
NOW, YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU AND
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD A DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU
SHOULD ENTER THE PROPERTY.
A WELL, IT WAS MORE -- IT WAS MORE MY DISCUSSION. I
WAS TELLING HIM MY CONCERNS, THAT I FELT THAT WE NEEDED TO ENTER
THE PROPERTY. HE VOICED THE SAME CONCERNS.
Q WELL, WHO BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE FIRST IF YOU RECALL?
A I DID.
Q ARE YOU SURE?
A I'M POSITIVE.
Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DIDN'T ATTEMPT TO CONVINCE YOU OF
THE NEED TO ENTER THE PROPERTY?
A DETECTIVE FUHRMAN COULD NOT CONVINCE ME OF ANYTHING.
NO.
I WAS CONCERNED. NO. I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS
CONCERNED.
Q AND IF YOU WILL, DETECTIVE, OUTLINE FOR US THE
INFORMATION THAT YOU HAD AT THAT TIME UP TO THAT POINT THAT
CAUSED YOU TO BE CONCERNED THAT SOMEONE ON THE PROPERTY MIGHT BE
INJURED.
A CERTAINLY.
I HAD A LOCATION THAT APPEARED TO BE OCCUPIED THAT
HAD LIGHTS ON IN IT. I HAD VEHICLES PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY. I
HAD INFORMATION THAT THERE WAS SUPPOSEDLY A LIVE-IN MAID AT THE
LOCATION AND I HAD WHAT APPEARED TO ME TO BE BLOOD ON THE
OUTSIDE. AFTER LEAVING A VERY VIOLENT BLOODY MURDER SCENE, I
BELIEVED SOMETHING WAS WRONG THERE. I MADE A DETERMINATION THAT
WE NEEDED TO GO OVER -- TO GO INTO THE PROPERTY.
Q YOU SAY THAT YOU HAD INFORMATION THAT THERE WAS
SUPPOSED TO BE A LIVE-IN MAID ON THE PROPERTY?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q WHERE DID YOU GET THAT INFORMATION?
A CAME FROM WESTEC SECURITY.
Q OKAY.
AND SO TO BE CLEAR, THE INFORMATION YOU HAD AT THAT
TIME THAT CAUSED YOU TO BE CONCERNED WAS THE LACK OF ANY RESPONSE
>FROM A LIVE-IN MAID?
A THE LACK OF ANY RESPONSE FROM ANYBODY.
Q OKAY.
THE LIGHTS ON INSIDE THE HOUSE?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q THE FACT THAT THERE WERE CARS IN THE DRIVEWAY?
A VEHICLES IN THE DRIVEWAY.
Q YOU JUST LEFT A BLOODY HOMICIDE SCENE?
A EXTREMELY BLOODY HOMICIDE SCENE.
Q THERE SEEMED TO BE BLOOD ON THE DOOR OF THE BRONCO?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND YOU HAD SOME INCLINATION THAT THE BRONCO WAS
OWNED BY MR. SIMPSON?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
WELL, HAD YOU EVER MET MR. SIMPSON PRIOR TO THAT
MORNING?
A NO.
Q OR THAT DAY RATHER?
A NO.
Q HAD YOU WATCHED HIM PLAY FOOTBALL OVER THE YEARS?
A YES, I'VE SEEN HIM PLAY FOOTBALL.
Q DO YOU DISLIKE MR. SIMPSON FOR ANY REASON?
A NO. I DIDN'T KNOW HIM. I THOUGHT HE WAS A GREAT
FOOTBALL PLAYER.
Q DID YOU CONFER WITH DETECTIVE LANGE ON THE ISSUE OF
WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOULD ENTER ONTO THE PROPERTY?
A YES.
Q DID YOU DISCUSS THAT ISSUE WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AS
WELL?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS THERE, BUT I BELIEVE THE
DISCUSSION WAS BETWEEN MYSELF AND MY PARTNER.
Q OKAY.
DURING THAT DISCUSSION, DID ANY DETECTIVE VOICE ANY
OPPOSITION TO SCALING THE WALL?
A NO.
Q AT THAT POINT, DID YOU CONSIDER MR. SIMPSON A SUSPECT
IN THE MURDER OF NICOLE BROWN AND THE OTHER MAN?
A NO.
Q YOU TOLD US THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN CANNOT CONVINCE
YOU OF ANYTHING.
A WELL, IT WOULD BE -- I THINK I WOULD TAKE AN
INDEPENDENT LOOK. I DON'T THINK I WOULD BE CONVINCED OF ANYTHING
BY ANYBODY OUTSIDE OF MY OWN INDEPENDENT LOOK AND MY OWN
CONCLUSIONS THAT I WOULD COME TO.
Q WELL, WHO HAD THE MOST EXPERIENCE ON THE JOB AS FAR
AS BEING A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR AT THAT TIME IF YOU KNEW?
A BETWEEN WHO AND WHO?
Q BETWEEN YOU AND FUHRMAN.
A ME.
Q AND OF THE FOUR DETECTIVES, WHO WAS THE MOST SENIOR?
A WELL, THERE'S TWO WAYS OF BEING SENIOR. DETECTIVE
PHILLIPS HAD THE MOST TIME ON THE JOB. I BELIEVE I HAVE THREE OR
SO MONTHS IN RANK ON MY PARTNER, BUT THAT -- I DON'T CONSIDER
THAT ANYTHING.
Q WELL, IT WAS YOUR CASE AND IT WAS DETECTIVE LANGE'S
CASE AT THAT POINT; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S WHY WE HAD THE DISCUSSION.
Q AND DID YOU DECIDE TO SCALE THE WALL?
A YES.
Q DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN VOLUNTEER TO GO OVER THE WALL?
A WELL, I THINK IT WAS A CONSENSUS OF OPINION THAT HE
WOULD, AND THAT -- THAT'S BASED ON A NUMBER OF THINGS. NUMBER
ONE, HE'S THE YOUNGEST GUY AND HE'S PROBABLY IN BETTER PHYSICAL
CONDITION, AND NUMBER TWO --
Q PROBABLY?
A WELL, OKAY. HE IS OBVIOUSLY.
AND, NUMBER TWO, HE'S JUNIOR IN RANK, AND THAT'S
NORMALLY THE WAY THINGS WORK. WHEN A PERSON IS JUNIOR, THEY DO
THE TOUGH WORK LIKE CLIMBING FENCES OR WHATEVER.
Q SO HAD HE HAD -- HAD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN RATHER HAVE
MORE RANK, MORE SENIORITY OR BEEN A LITTLE OLDER --
A I WOULD HAVE PROBABLY GONE OVER THE FENCE.
Q AND HOW OLD ARE YOU, DETECTIVE?
A DO I NEED TO ANSWER THAT? I'LL BE 54 NEXT MONTH,
SIR.
Q WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CLIMBED A WALL?
A WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED. I CLIMB WALLS
A LOT OF TIMES. SO PROBABLY WITHIN THE LAST WEEK.
Q DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN CLIMB THE WALL?
A YES, HE DID.
Q DID YOU WATCH HIM AS HE CLIMBED OVER THE WALL?
A I DID.
Q WHEN HE ARRIVED -- THAT IS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN -- WHEN
HE ARRIVED AT ROCKINGHAM, WAS HE WEARING HIS COAT IF YOU RECALL?
A WHEN HE GOT OUT OF THE CAR, HE WAS NOT WEARING HIS
COAT, NO.
Q AND WHEN HE CLIMBED OVER THE FENCE OR THE WALL
RATHER, WAS HE WEARING HIS COAT?
A NO, HE WAS NOT.
Q AND DO YOU KNOW WHERE HIS COAT WAS?
A I WOULD ASSUME IT WAS IN THE VEHICLE. I DIDN'T SEE
THE COAT, BUT I NEVER SAW HIM WEARING A COAT EITHER.
Q YOU NEVER SAW HIM WEARING A COAT AT ROCKINGHAM?
A NOT THAT MORNING, NO.
Q WHAT HAPPENED AFTER DETECTIVE FUHRMAN CLIMBED OVER
THE WALL?
A THERE WAS A HINGE-TYPE RELEASE ON THE GATE. HE
OPENED THE GATE AND WE ENTERED THE PROPERTY.
Q AND DID SOMEONE BRING HIM HIS COAT AT THAT TIME?
A NO.
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A PROCEEDED TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.
MR. DARDEN: CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: YES.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: SO ALL FOUR OF YOU APPROACHED THE
FRONT DOOR AT ROCKINGHAM?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q NOW, AS YOU APPROACHED THE FRONT DOOR, DID YOU -- DID
YOU SEE A DOG?
A YES. THERE WAS A DOG ON THE PROPERTY.
Q AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT DOG, DID THE DOG BEGIN BARKING?
A NO.
Q DID IT GROWL?
A NO.
Q WHAT DID THE DOG DO?
A THE DOG WAS VERY DOCILE. NORMALLY, I HAVE A --
Q SCARED OF DOGS ARE YOU?
A WELL, I'M NOT AFRAID, BUT I HAVE A RESPECT BECAUSE
I'VE BEEN BITTEN BY DOGS IN MY CAREER, AND I WAS A LITTLE WARY OF
THIS DOG UNTIL I NOTICED THE DOG APPEARED VERY FRIENDLY. I
WALKED UP AND PETTED THE DOG. THE DOG NEVER MADE ANY SOUNDS AT
ALL.
Q OKAY.
THE DOG DIDN'T SEEM AGGRESSIVE AT ALL?
A NOT AT ALL.
Q AND YOU HAD NEVER BEEN AT ROCKINGHAM?
A NEVER.
Q WHAT DID YOU AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES DO WHEN YOU
REACHED THE FRONT DOOR?
A KNOCKED ON THE DOOR ATTEMPTING TO AROUSE SOMEONE
WITHIN THE RESIDENCE.
Q DID YOU YOURSELF KNOCK?
A YES.
Q DID ANY OF THE OTHER DETECTIVES KNOCK AT THE DOOR?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS MAY HAVE, YES.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES KNOCK AT
THE DOOR?
A I THINK WE WERE THERE MAYBE TWO TO THREE MINUTES TO
GIVE SOMEONE THAT MAY BE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE A TIME TO RESPOND
TO THE FRONT DOOR. WE DIDN'T GET ANY RESPONSE THOUGH.
Q AND WAS THE LIGHT OR WERE THE LIGHTS RATHER STILL ON
INSIDE THE HOUSE?
A YES.
Q THE VEHICLES WERE STILL PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY?
A YES.
Q HAD YOU ANY INFORMATION AT ALL AT THAT TIME, ANY
DEFINITIVE INFORMATION TO SUGGEST THAT THERE WAS NO MAID ON THE
PREMISES?
A NONE WHATSOEVER.
Q AND YOUR CONCERN, THAT SOMEONE MIGHT BE HURT OR
INJURED?
A ABSOLUTELY. IT COULD HAVE BEEN AN EXTENSION OF THE
CRIME SCENE FROM BUNDY.
Q OKAY.
WELL, WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER KNOCKING AT THE DOOR TWO
OR THREE MINUTES?
A NOT KNOWING THE LAYOUT OF THE PROPERTY, I WANTED TO
OBSERVE THE PROPERTY TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANY PERSONS OR
ANYTHING. SO I WALKED BACK TO A WALKWAY THAT RAN EAST AND WEST
ALONG THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE AND WALKED DOWN THAT
WALKWAY.
Q SO YOU WALKED AROUND THE HOUSE TO THE BACK OF THE
HOUSE?
A I WALKED TO THE NORTH SIDE AND WALKED TO THE BACK OF
THE HOUSE, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GO WITH YOU?
A ALL FOUR OF US DID.
Q OKAY.
YOU WERE ALTOGETHER?
A YES.
Q WAS IT STILL DARK AT THAT POINT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU HAVE YOUR FLASHLIGHT?
A YES.
Q DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAVE HIS FLASHLIGHT?
A YES.
MR. DARDEN: CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MR. DARDEN: IF I CAN HAVE A MOMENT TO GET PEOPLE'S 66,
YOUR HONOR.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, IF YOU WOULD STEP DOWN
>FROM THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.
A CERTAINLY. DO I NEED THE POINTER AGAIN?
Q YES. YES, YOU DO.
A YES, SIR.
Q DETECTIVE, IF YOU WILL, SHOW US ON PEOPLE'S 66 THE
ROUTE YOU TOOK FROM THE ASHFORD GATE TO THE FRONT DOOR.
A ABSOLUTELY.
WE WALKED -- WHICH WOULD BE SOUTH FROM ASHFORD STREET
ALONG THE DRIVEWAY AFTER THE GATE WAS OPENED RIGHT TO THE
ENTRANCE OF THE HOME RIGHT HERE (INDICATING).
Q YOU KNOCKED AT THAT DOOR?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q FRONT DOOR.
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q FOR TWO OR THREE MINUTES.
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q YOU DIDN'T ATTEMPT TO FORCE ENTRY INTO THE HOUSE AT
THAT POINT.
A NO.
Q YOU DIDN'T KICK THE DOOR.
A NO.
Q WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A NOT GETTING ANY RESPONSE -- I DIDN'T KNOW THE OUTLAY
OF THE PROPERTY -- I WANTED TO VIEW THE PROPERTY TO SEE IF THERE
WAS ANYBODY DOWN, HURT, INJURED OR ANY PERSONS THERE AT ALL.
SO WE CAME BACK OUT AND WALKED TO THIS EAST-WEST
WALKWAY THAT RUNS ALONG THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE, AND THIS
IS WHERE I ENCOUNTERED THE DOG (INDICATING). I HAD SEEN THE DOG
FIRST WHEN I WAS OUT HERE. THE DOG WAS IN THIS AREA. BUT WHEN I
CAME BACK WAS WHEN I ACTUALLY ENCOUNTERED AND PETTED THE DOG.
Q AND THEN YOU SAY THAT YOU WALKED AROUND TO THE BACK
OF THE HOUSE; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT. AS I WALKED, I WAS LOOKING AROUND
THE PROPERTY SHINING MY FLASHLIGHT TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANY
PERSONS OR ANYTHING.
Q AND AT SOME POINT, DID YOU REACH A DOOR?
A PARDON?
Q AT SOME POINT, DID YOU ARRIVE AT A DOOR IN THE BACK
OF THE PROPERTY?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND WHERE IS THAT DOOR LOCATED ON PEOPLE'S 66?
A THE DOOR THAT I ARRIVED AT OR I ARRIVED AT A LOCATION
JUST AT THE TOP OF THESE STAIRS AND I OBSERVED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS
AND DETECTIVE LANGE AT THIS DOOR RIGHT HERE (INDICATING), WHICH
WOULD BE KAELIN'S ROOM.
Q OKAY.
NOW, PRIOR TO REACHING MR. KAELIN'S ROOM, DID YOU
KNOCK AT THE BACK DOOR TO THE RESIDENCE?
A NO. I OBSERVED MY PARTNER GO TO THE BACK DOOR AND
KNOCK ON THE BACK DOOR.
Q AND THAT WOULD BE DETECTIVE LANGE?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q YOU DIDN'T KNOCK YOURSELF?
A I DID NOT.
Q WHAT WERE YOU DOING DURING THE TIME THAT DETECTIVE
LANGE WAS KNOCKING AT THAT BACK DOOR?
A I WAS UP IN THIS AREA (INDICATING) SHINING MY LIGHT,
MY FLASHLIGHT AROUND THE AREA TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANY PERSONS
OR ANYBODY DOWN OR ANYTHING, TRYING TO OBSERVE THE LAY OF THE
PROPERTY AND LOOK TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANYTHING.
Q BUT YOU DID NOT CONDUCT A PHYSICAL SEARCH OF THE
PROPERTY AT THAT TIME?
A I DID NOT.
Q IT WAS A VISUAL SEARCH?
A IT WAS A VISUAL SEARCH.
Q AND WERE YOU BASICALLY STATIONARY?
A YES.
Q HOW LONG DID DETECTIVE LANGE KNOCK AT THE BACK DOOR
IF YOU RECALL?
A SHORT TIME. WE HAD BEEN KNOCKING AT THE FRONT DOOR
WITH NO RESPONSE. HE WAS THERE A SHORT TIME.
Q DID YOU SEE ANYBODY DOWN OR ANYONE INJURED OR ANYONE
AT ALL OUT IN THE REAR YARD?
A NO, SIR.
Q ONLY THE DETECTIVES?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND I'M SORRY.
HOW LONG DID YOU SAY DETECTIVE LANGE KNOCKED AT THE
BACK DOOR?
A IT WAS A SHORT TIME. A MINUTE MAYBE? A MINUTE OR
LESS?
Q NO ONE RESPONDED?
A NO ONE RESPONDED.
Q AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT, DETECTIVE?
A I OBSERVED DETECTIVE LANGE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. I
WAS BEHIND THEM AND I BELIEVE I WAS THE -- ACTUALLY THE FOURTH IN
LINE AT THAT POINT.
DETECTIVE LANGE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS APPROACHED
THIS DOOR (INDICATING). DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS SOMEPLACE RIGHT IN
FRONT OF ME, AND I WALKED UP BEHIND HIM AND WAS STANDING AT THE
TOP WHEN I OBSERVED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS KNOCK ON THE DOOR HERE.
Q AND THE DOOR YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS THE DOOR TO --
A KAELIN'S ROOM.
Q KATO KAELIN'S ROOM?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND WHO KNOCKED AT THAT DOOR?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q AND HOW LONG DID HE KNOCK AT KATO KAELIN'S DOOR?
A JUST PRIOR TO KNOCKING -- THERE WAS SOME LOUVERED
WINDOWS THERE, AND HE LEANED DOWN AND HE LOOKED IN AND HE SAYS,
"THERE'S -- I SEE SOMEONE INSIDE," OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
HE KNOCKED AT THE DOOR, AND ACTUALLY PRETTY QUICKLY, THE DOOR WAS
OPENED.
Q OKAY.
YOU DIDN'T KICK THE DOOR IN?
A NO.
Q YOU DIDN'T FORCE ENTRY?
A NO.
Q AND SOMEONE DID COME TO THE DOOR?
A YES.
Q AND THAT IS THE PERSON WE NOW KNOW AS KATO KAELIN?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q DID SOMEONE SPEAK TO MR. KAELIN?
A AT THAT POINT, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS DID, YES.
Q AND DID YOU OVERHEAR THAT CONVERSATION?
A PART OF IT.
Q WHAT DID YOU HEAR?
A I HEARD HIM TELL KAELIN THAT WE NEEDED TO GET IN
TOUCH WITH MR. SIMPSON AND I HEARD KAELIN TELL HIM THAT ARNELLE
SIMPSON WAS IN THE ROOM NEXT DOOR.
Q OKAY.
WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I OBSERVED PHILLIPS AND LANGE, MY PARTNER, START
TOWARD THAT ROOM. I FOLLOWED AND I OBSERVED FUHRMAN GO INTO
KAELIN'S ROOM BEHIND ME.
Q NOW, DID YOU THINK IT WAS UNUSUAL AT ALL THAT
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN ENTERED MR. KAELIN'S ROOM?
A NOT AT ALL.
Q THERE IS THIS TERM IN POLICE SCIENCE CALLED OFFICER
SAFETY; IS THAT RIGHT?
A IT'S A VERY CRITICAL TERM, YES.
Q AND WHAT DOES THAT TERM MEAN?
A IT MEANS THAT -- THAT YOU DEPLOY THE PEOPLE THAT YOU
HAVE WITH YOU AS BEST YOU CAN TO ENSURE YOUR OWN PERSONAL SAFETY
WHEN YOU'RE IN A SITUATION YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE.
Q AND DID YOU HAVE THAT -- THAT NOTION IN MIND WHEN YOU
LEFT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT KATO KAELIN'S ROOM?
A YEAH. THAT'S ALWAYS A CONCERN. THAT'S ONE OF THE
PRIMARY THINGS YOU DO AND YOU ALMOST DO THAT UNCONSCIOUS. I MEAN
THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT'S DONE IN POLICE WORK.
AT THAT POINT, I BELIEVED THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS
GOING TO IDENTIFY AND FIND OUT WHO THIS PERSON WAS AND FIND OUT
IF HE HAD THE RIGHT TO BE ON THE PROPERTY AND SO ON, SO FORTH.
OFFICER SAFETY JUST COMES AS A NATURAL THING. THAT'S SOMETHING
YOU ALWAYS DO REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATION THAT YOU'RE IN.
Q AND THAT'S A VERY NARROW WALKWAY THERE IN FRONT OF
MR. KAELIN'S ROOM AND IN FRONT OF MISS ARNELLE SIMPSON'S ROOM,
ISN'T IT?
A THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
Q NOT EASY TO ESCAPE FROM THAT LOCATION, IS IT?
A NOT AT ALL.
Q THE -- WELL, STRIKE THAT.
THERE'S A CEMENT WALL ADJACENT TO THE WALKWAY?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND IT'S A RATHER HIGH WALL, IS THAT RIGHT, FAIRLY
HIGH?
A YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NORTH SIDE?
Q YEAH.
A YEAH. IT'S -- IT'S -- I THINK THERE WAS A -- THREE
OR FOUR STEPS THAT GO UP TO A LANDING, AND THIS IS A RES -- OR A
DROP DOWN WALKWAY AND I -- I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY. IT COULD
HAVE BEEN THREE, THREE AND A HALF, FOUR FEET HIGH, YES.
Q OKAY.
SO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WENT INTO KATO KAELIN'S ROOM.
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q YOU AND THE OTHER THREE DETECTIVES WALKED DOWN TO
MISS -- MISS SIMPSON'S ROOM?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT HAPPENED THERE?
A I BELIEVE AS I RECALL EITHER ONE OF THE TWO, LANGE OR
PHILLIPS, KNOCKED ON THE DOOR. IT WAS PRETTY QUICKLY OPENED AND
I HAD MOVED UP BEHIND.
I HEARD PHILLIPS ASK HER OR TELL HER, ASK HER IF SHE
KNEW WHERE HER FATHER WAS, WE NEEDED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH HIM, WE
HAD AN EMERGENCY, AND SHE ANSWERED THAT QUESTION WITH ACTUALLY
WHAT I CONSIDERED A QUESTION OF HER OWN. SHE GESTURED TOWARD THE
HOUSE AND SAID, "ISN'T HE HERE," POINTING LIKE TOWARDS THE HOUSE.
AND I SAID TO HER AT THAT POINT, "I DON'T KNOW. IS
HE? CAN WE -- CAN WE GO INSIDE AND CHECK? WE NEED TO CHECK. DO
YOU HAVE A KEY?" AND SHE SAYS, "YES."
Q AND AT THAT POINT, DID SHE OBTAIN A KEY?
A YES. SHE OBTAINED A KEY FROM INSIDE THE ROOM AND LED
US DOWN THE WALKWAY TO THE REAR DOOR HERE (INDICATING).
Q NOW, DID SHE ENTER THROUGH THE REAR DOOR?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND DID SHE USE A KEY TO ENTER INTO THE REAR DOOR?
A YES.
Q AND DID SHE ALLOW YOU ACCESS INSIDE THE HOUSE?
A YES.
Q SHE NEVER OBJECTED?
A NO.
Q NOW, WHERE WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN IF YOU KNOW WHEN YOU
ENTERED THE HOUSE THROUGH THE REAR DOOR?
A I BELIEVE HE WAS STILL IN KAELIN'S ROOM. THAT'S MY
BELIEF.
Q I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO RETAKE THE STAND.
A YES, SIR.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, DO WE NEED THE EXHIBIT AT THIS
POINT?
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU.
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DID NOT ENTER THE HOUSE ALONG WITH
YOURSELF AND DETECTIVES LANGE AND PHILLIPS AND MISS SIMPSON?
A NO, HE DID NOT.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO ONCE YOU ENTERED THE HOUSE?
A I -- AS WE ENTERED THE HOUSE, I ASKED ARNELLE SIMPSON
WHERE THE MAID'S QUARTERS WERE. I WANTED TO CHECK AND MAKE SURE
IF THERE WAS A MAID THERE IF SHE WAS OKAY.
AND I WAS LED THROUGH A BAR AREA INTO A -- INTO THE
KITCHEN AND THEN INTO A UTILITY ROOM AT THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE
KITCHEN. SHE OPENED THE DOOR TO WHAT APPEARED TO BE THE MAID'S
QUARTERS. I LOOKED IN AND EVERYTHING APPEARED TO BE IN ORDER.
Q OKAY.
YOU SAY THAT YOU TOLD MISS SIMPSON THAT YOU WANTED TO
LOOK INTO THE MAID'S QUARTERS TO SEE IF THE MAID WAS OKAY?
A I ASKED HER IF I COULD -- TO SHOW ME WHERE THE MAID'S
QUARTERS WERE.
Q DID SHE EVER TELL YOU THAT THE MAID WAS OFF?
A NO.
Q OKAY.
SO YOU LOOKED INSIDE THE MAID'S QUARTERS AND
EVERYTHING SEEMED TO BE OKAY?
A IN ORDER, YES.
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A AT THAT POINT, I CAME BACK TO THE KITCHEN. SHE HAD
-- I BELIEVE SHE HAD ALREADY WALKED OUT OF THE UTILITY ROOM BACK
INTO THE KITCHEN AND WAS CONVERSING WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
I OVERHEARD HER TELL DETECTIVE PHILLIPS THAT SHE
COULD MAKE A PHONE CALL I BELIEVE TO HER FATHER'S SECRETARY AND
SHE COULD FIND OUT WHERE HER FATHER WAS, AND SHE STARTED MAKING A
PHONE CALL.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU DO AT THAT POINT?
A I WANTED TO INSPECT THE BOTTOM FLOOR OF THE HOME TO
MAKE SURE THERE WAS NO ONE DOWN OR INJURED IN THE HOME. I
STARTED WALKING BACK TO THE BAR AREA TO LOOK AT THE NORTH SIDE OF
THE GROUND FLOOR OF THE RESIDENCE, AND AS I WAS EXITING THE
KITCHEN, I WAS STOPPED BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.
Q AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN AT THAT TIME?
A I DID.
Q WHAT WAS THAT CONVERSATION?
A DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TOLD ME THAT HE HAD SEATED BRIAN
KAELIN OR HE REFERRED TO HIM AS KATO AT THE BAR -- I COULD SEE
HIM SITTING ON THE BAR STOOL -- AND HE TOLD ME THAT I SHOULD TALK
TO KATO TO HEAR WHAT HE HAD TO SAY, AND HE GAVE ME THE INFERENCE
THAT HE WAS GOING OUT TO CHECK THE GROUNDS AT THAT POINT.
Q OKAY.
WELL, HOW DID HE GIVE YOU THAT INFERENCE?
A WELL, JUST -- I MEAN, THAT'S PART OF POLICE WORK.
WHEN SOMETHING UNUSUAL HAPPENS, IF YOU HAVE OFFICERS THERE --
WE'RE ALL FOUR WORKING AT THE SAME TIME. HE APPARENTLY THOUGHT
HE HAD FOUND SOME VERY -- VERY GOOD INFORMATION, AND I JUST DRAW
THE INFERENCE FROM HIM TELLING ME THAT, THAT HE'S GOING TO CHECK
THAT AREA.
Q WELL, DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TELL YOU WHAT IF ANYTHING
KAELIN HAD ALREADY TOLD HIM?
A YEAH. HE SAID BRIEFLY THAT KAELIN HAD TOLD HIM THAT
HE HEARD A VERY LOUD THUMP OUTSIDE HIS ROOM THAT HE THOUGHT
POSSIBLY WAS AN EARTHQUAKE AND THAT I SHOULD TALK TO HIM.
Q AND DID YOU SEE DETECTIVE FUHRMAN LEAVE YOUR PRESENCE
AT THAT POINT?
A YES.
Q WHERE DID HE GO?
A AS I RECALL, HE WALKED TOWARD THE ENTRANCEWAY TO THE
HOME, THE FRONT ENTRANCEWAY.
Q AND WHERE DID YOU GO AT THAT POINT?
A I SAT DOWN AT THE BAR AREA WITH BRIAN KAELIN.
Q AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN AT
THAT TIME?
A I DID.
MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MR. DARDEN: SO, DETECTIVE, YOU DID HAVE A
CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN AT THAT TIME?
A YES.
Q AND HOW LONG DID THAT CONVERSATION TAKE?
A WELL, IT WAS -- PROBABLY IN THE VICINITY OF FIVE
MINUTES. I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HIM AND THEN AFTER OUR
CONVERSATION, I WENT BACK AND I STARTED WRITING NOTES. I WAS
GOING TO DO A STATEMENT AND WHILE I WAS GOING -- WRITING THE
NOTES, I WAS INTERRUPTED.
Q OKAY.
AND WERE YOU INTERRUPTED BY SOMEONE OR SOMETHING?
A BY SOMEONE.
Q AND WHO WAS THAT?
A DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.
Q DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT
THAT TIME?
A YES.
Q AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU HAD THAT CONVERSATION
WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
A IN THE BAR AREA OF THE HOME.
Q AND HOW MUCH TIME HAD ELAPSED BETWEEN DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN TELLING YOU THAT HE WAS GOING OUTSIDE AND THIS SECOND
INTERRUPTION?
A BOY, I WOULD -- I WOULD HAVE TO ESTIMATE THAT. I
WOULD SAY 10 MINUTES OR SO.
Q DURING THE TIME THAT YOU SPOKE TO MR. KAELIN, DID YOU
EVER ASK HIM IF HE HAD KEYS TO THE BRONCO?
A DURING THIS CONVERSATION?
Q YEAH.
A NOT DURING THAT INITIAL CONVERSATION. I ASKED HIM
LATER.
Q OKAY.
WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT.
WHAT WAS THE CONVERSATION YOU HAD WITH DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN AT THAT TIME?
A DETECTIVE FUHRMAN ASKED ME TO ACCOMPANY HIM TO THE
SOUTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE. HE WANTED TO SHOW ME SOMETHING.
Q DID HE TELL YOU WHAT IT WAS THAT HE WANTED TO SHOW
YOU AT THAT TIME?
A HE COULD HAVE. I DON'T KNOW -- HE COULD HAVE. I
DON'T REMEMBER HIM SAYING, BUT HE COULD HAVE.
Q DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT HE HAD
ALREADY SHOWN THAT SAME ITEM TO DETECTIVES PHILLIPS AND LANGE?
A YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT OCCURRED ON NOT.
THAT COULD HAVE OCCURRED ALSO. I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T RECALL
THAT.
Q OKAY.
AT ANY EVENT, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DID TAKE YOU
SOMEWHERE; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND WHERE DID YOU AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GO?
A I FOLLOWED HIM OUT THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE,
WALKED SOUTH IN THE DRIVEWAY TO THE FRONT OF THE GARAGE AND HE
TOOK ME DOWN THE SOUTH BOUNDARY LINE OF THE PROPERTY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MR. DARDEN: PEOPLE'S 116, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 116.
Q BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, IF YOU WOULD --
A YES, SIR.
Q -- STEP DOWN FOR A MOMENT.
DETECTIVE, SHOWING YOU 116-A --
MR. DARDEN: I COULD DO THIS ON THE ELMO.
Q BY MR. DARDEN: DETECTIVE, WHAT'S SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S
116-A?
A 116-A IS THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY THAT -- THAT WOULD
LEAD IN AN EAST-WEST DIRECTION FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE INTO THE
FRONT OF THE GARAGE. THIS IS -- AND THIS WOULD BE THE SOUTH
PROPERTY LINE OF THE RESIDENCE AT 360.
Q OKAY.
SO THAT DARK AREA TO THE RIGHT OF THE PHOTOGRAPH IS
THE ENTRANCEWAY TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY IS IT?
A WELL, ACTUALLY -- ACTUALLY YOU CAN SEE THE WHOLE DARK
AREA HERE, THE -- IF YOU WENT DIRECTLY WEST FROM HERE, THIS WOULD
BE THE ROCKINGHAM GATE. THIS DARK AREA YOU SEE HERE IS A CYCLONE
FENCE, CHAIN LINK FENCE THAT'S OVERGROWN WITH SHRUBBERY AND VINES
(INDICATING).
Q OKAY.
WAS THE CHAIN LINK FENCE LOCKED OR ENCLOSED AT THAT
TIME?
A I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND --
Q OKAY.
THE QUESTION WAS THIS.
WAS THERE A GATE ACROSS THE PATHWAY THERE?
A THERE WERE TWO GATES ONCE YOU ENTERED THE PATHWAY,
YES.
Q OKAY.
WERE EITHER OF THOSE GATES LOCKED?
A NO.
Q ALL RIGHT.
AND SO THIS IS THE PATH IN WHICH YOU WALKED THEN AS
YOU PROCEEDED SOUTH, ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q YOU FOLLOWED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?
A YES.
Q AND DID YOU SPEAK WITH HIM AS YOU WALKED ALONG THE
PATHWAY?
A OH, I'M SURE WE WERE TALKING. I -- I -- I DON'T KNOW
EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE SAYING, BUT I'M SURE WE WERE TALKING.
Q AND WHAT IS SHOWN IN 116-B?
A 116-B IS THE -- IS THE WALKWAY THAT I'VE BEEN TELLING
YOU ABOUT THAT'S AT THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE OF 360 ROCKINGHAM.
YOU CAN SEE IN THIS PORTION HERE (INDICATING) PART OF THE CHAIN
LINK FENCE AND THE FOLIAGE THAT GROWS BETWEEN THE TWO RESIDENCES
AT 360 AND THE ONE DIRECTLY SOUTH OF IT.
Q NOW, THESE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN DURING DAYLIGHT
HOURS; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES, SIR.
Q WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU BEGAN YOUR WALK ALONG THE
PATH DEPICTED IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS APPROXIMATELY 6:30 IN THE MORNING.
APPROXIMATELY 6:30.
Q AND DOES 116-B DEPICT THE PATH THAT YOU WALKED?
A YES, SIR, IT DOES.
Q NOW, IN THE BACKGROUND, DO YOU SEE SOMETHING
EXTENDING FROM THE WALL?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND WHAT DO YOU SEE?
A I WOULD ASSUME YOU'RE SPEAKING OF THIS HERE
(INDICATING), THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT THAT I HAD FIRST OBSERVED
THE FRONT OF IN BRIAN KAELIN'S ROOM.
Q YOU DID NOTICE THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT IN BRIAN
KAELIN'S ROOM?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND DID THIS AIR CONDITIONER, THE PORTION THAT YOU
SAW APPEAR TO BE AN EXTENSION OF MR. KAELIN'S AIR CONDITIONER?
A YES.
Q 116-C.
YOU CONTINUED TO FOLLOW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN DOWN THE
PATH; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES, SIR. THAT'S CORRECT.
EXCUSE ME JUST A MOMENT, PLEASE.
Q DID YOU HAVE THOSE GLASSES ON THAT MORNING,
DETECTIVE?
A I -- I -- I NEED THEM FOR REAL CLOSE-UP STUFF. I CAN
SEE GREAT AT A DISTANCE, BUT UP CLOSE, I NEED GLASSES.
Q OKAY.
116-C IS JUST ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH OF THE PATHWAY; IS
THAT CORRECT?
A YEAH. THAT'S -- THAT'S A CLOSE-UP OF AN AREA JUST --
JUST -- WHICH WOULD BE JUST WEST OF WHERE THE AIR CONDITIONING
UNIT IS, YES.
Q AND DO YOU SEE SOMETHING ON THE GROUND THERE IN
116-C?
A YES, SIR, I DO.
Q NEED YOUR GLASSES, DETECTIVE?
A WELL, NO, NO. I CAN SEE IT, BUT IT WOULD BE EASIER.
RIGHT HERE ON THE GROUND RIGHT THERE (INDICATING) IS
AN ITEM THAT WAS SHOWN TO ME BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.
Q AND 116-D.
A UH-HUH.
THIS IS THE ITEM THAT WAS POINTED OUT TO ME BY
DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHICH IS A RIGHT-HAND BROWN MAN'S LEATHER
GLOVE.
Q NOW, WHEN THE GLOVE WAS SHOWN TO YOU BY DETECTIVE
FUHRMAN, I TAKE IT THAT YOU WALKED TOWARD IT?
A YEAH. I WALKED UP WITHIN PROBABLY THREE TO FOUR FEET
OF IT.
Q DID YOU PICK IT UP?
A NO.
Q DID YOU TOUCH IT IN ANY WAY?
A NO, SIR.
Q DID YOU TURN IT OVER?
A NO, SIR.
Q FROM A DISTANCE OF THREE TO FOUR FEET, COULD YOU SEE
WHAT THE ITEM WAS?
A YES. I ILLUMINATED IT WITH MY FLASHLIGHT. I COULD
SEE IT.
Q AND DID YOU NEED YOUR FLASHLIGHT?
A IT WAS -- IT WAS GETTING LIGHT AT THIS POINT. IT WAS
BEGINNING TO LIGHTEN UP. DAWN WAS BREAKING. BUT IT WAS -- BUT
IT'S STILL PRETTY DARK ALONG THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE OF THE
AMOUNT OF FOLIAGE THAT'S GROWN BETWEEN THE TWO RESIDENCES.
I COULD SEE THE ITEM WITHOUT MY FLASHLIGHT. I
ILLUMINATED THE ITEM TO MAKE SURE I WAS SEEING WHAT I WAS SEEING.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A A BROWN LEATHER MAN'S RIGHT-HANDED GLOVE.
Q AND WHAT IS SHOWN IN 116-E?
A THAT'S THE ORIGINAL LOCATION AND THE GLOVE THAT WAS
POINTED OUT TO ME THAT MORNING.
Q AND IN 116-F?
A THAT'S A CLOSER PICTURE OF THE SAME OBJECT.
Q NOW, THERE IS A TAG BEARING THE NUMBER 9 IN 116-F; IS
THAT CORRECT?
A THAT'S CORRECT. YES.
Q AND WHY IS THAT TAG THERE?
A THAT IS AN EVIDENCE NUMBER THAT WAS GIVEN THAT ITEM
BY THE CRIMINALIST BEFORE IT WAS RECOVERED TO DOCUMENT THE ORDER
IN WHICH THE EVIDENCE WAS -- WAS RECOVERED THAT MORNING. SO THIS
9 WOULD INDICATE THAT THIS WOULD BE ITEM 9 ON THE PROPERTY
REPORT.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: SO AT SOME POINT, THE CRIMINALIST DID
ARRIVE AT THE LOCATION; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES, SIR, HE DID.
Q AND DID THE CRIMINALIST EXAMINE THAT GLOVE AT THE
LOCATION AT ALL IF YOU KNOW?
A WHAT DO YOU MEAN, BY EXAMINE?
Q WELL, DID HE PICK IT UP IN YOUR PRESENCE?
A NO, HE DID NOT.
Q DID HE TEST IT IN ANY WAY IN YOUR PRESENCE?
A NO, HE DID NOT.
Q WHEN YOU SAW THE GLOVE, DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER OR NOT
IT APPEARED MOIST OR STICKY?
A WHEN I ILLUMINATED THE GLOVE, IT APPEARED TO HAVE
BLOOD ON THE GLOVE OR WHAT LOOKED TO ME LIKE BLOOD AND IT DIDN'T
APPEAR TO BE DRIED BLOOD WHERE IT WOULD BE FLAKY AND FALLING OFF.
IT APPEARED THAT IT WAS MOIST.
Q AND THE BLOOD THAT YOU SAW BACK AT BUNDY JUST PRIOR
TO YOUR DEPARTURE A FEW MINUTES BEFORE 5:00 IN THE MORNING --
A YES, SIR.
Q -- DID THAT BLOOD APPEAR TO BE DRY?
A NO.
MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MR. DARDEN: DID THE GLOVE APPEAR SHINY AT ALL?
A IT APPEARED TO BE -- IT APPEARED TO BE WET WITH
SOMETHING, WHICH WOULD MAKE IT SHINY OR MOIST. IT APPEARED TO BE
A LEATHER MAN'S GLOVE.
Q AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE ARE APPEARANCES; IS
THAT RIGHT, DETECTIVE?
A YES, SIR.
Q YOU DIDN'T PICK IT UP?
A NO, SIR.
Q SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WAS WET OR NOT?
A NO, I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR A FACT.
MR. DARDEN: IS THIS A CONVENIENT TIME TO BREAK, YOUR
HONOR?
THE COURT: APPEARS SO.
ALL RIGHT. CAN WE HAVE THE EXHIBIT TAKEN DOWN THERE,
PLEASE?
THANK YOU.
MR. DARDEN: CAN WE JUST SHOW THE BOARD TO THE JURY FOR ONE
MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: YES.
(THE EXHIBIT WAS SHOWN TO THE JURY.)
THE WITNESS: YOUR HONOR, MAY I GO OVER THERE?
THE COURT: DON'T GO AWAY.
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AT THIS TIME, WE'RE GOING TO
TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE AFTERNOON.
PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS
THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE
CASE, DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN
SUBMITTED TO YOU, DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU
WITH REGARD TO THE CASE.
AND WE WILL STAND IN RECESS UNTIL 9:00 O'CLOCK
TOMORROW MORNING.
AND, DETECTIVE VANNATTER, YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN
TOMORROW MORNING AT 9:00 O'CLOCK.
THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU, COUNSEL.
WE'LL STAND IN RECESS.
(AT 3:00 P.M., AN ADJOURNMENT
WAS TAKEN UNTIL, FRIDAY,
MARCH 17, 1995, 9:00 A.M.)
SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, )
)
PLAINTIFF, )
)
) VS.
) NO. BA097211
)
ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
)
)
DEFENDANT. )
REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
THURSDAY, MARCH 16, 1995
VOLUME 108
PAGES 19036 THROUGH 19227, INCLUSIVE
(PAGES 19019 THROUGH 19035, INCLUSIVE, SEALED)
APPEARANCES: (SEE PAGE 2)
JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR #4588
CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR #2378
OFFICIAL REPORTERS
APPEARANCES:
FOR THE PEOPLE: GIL GARCETTI, DISTRICT ATTORNEY
BY: MARCIA R. CLARK, WILLIAM W.
HODGMAN, CHRISTOPHER A. DARDEN,
CHERI A. LEWIS, ROCKNE P. HARMON,
GEORGE W. CLARKE, SCOTT M. GORDON
LYDIA C. BODIN, HANK M. GOLDBERG,
ALAN YOCHELSON AND DARRELL S.
MAVIS, DEPUTIES
18-000 CRIMINAL COURTS BUILDING
210 WEST TEMPLE STREET
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90012
FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT L. SHAPIRO, ESQUIRE
SARA L. CAPLAN, ESQUIRE
2121 AVENUE OF THE STARS
19TH FLOOR
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90067
JOHNNIE L. COCHRAN, JR., ESQUIRE
BY: CARL E. DOUGLAS, ESQUIRE
SHAWN SNIDER CHAPMAN, ESQUIRE
4929 WILSHIRE BOULEVARD
SUITE 1010
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90010
GERALD F. UELMEN, ESQUIRE
ROBERT KARDASHIAN, ESQUIRE
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, ESQUIRE
F. LEE BAILEY, ESQUIRE
BARRY SCHECK, ESQUIRE
ROBERT D. BLASIER, ESQUIRE
I N D E X
INDEX FOR VOLUME 108 PAGES 19036 - 19227
-----------------------------------------------------
DAY DATE SESSION PAGE VOL.
THURSDAY MARCH 16, 1995 A.M. 19036 108
P.M. 19151 108
-----------------------------------------------------
LEGEND:
MS. CLARK - MC
MR. HODGMAN - H
MR. DARDEN D
MR. KAHN - K
MR. GOLDBERG - GB
MR. GORDON - G
MR. SHAPIRO - S
MR. COCHRAN - C
MR. DOUGLAS - CD
MR. BAILEY - B
MR. UELMEN - U
MR. SCHECK - BS
MR. NEUFELD - N
-----------------------------------------------------
CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES
PEOPLE'S
WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOL.
FUHRMAN, MARK 108 (RESUMED)
19043B 19049MC
SPANGLER, 19053MC 19064B 19085MC 108 FRANK
SMITH, DARRYL 19095MC 19108C 19126MC 19128C 108
VANNATTER, 19130D 108 PHILIP
(RESUMED) 19154D
-------------------------------------------------------
ALPHABETICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES
PEOPLE'S
WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOL.
FUHRMAN, MARK 108 (RESUMED)
19043B 19049MC
SMITH, DARRYL 19095MC 19108C 19126MC 19128C 108
SPANGLER, 19053MC 19064B 19085MC 108 FRANK
VANNATTER, 19130D 108 PHILIP
(RESUMED) 19154D
EXHIBITS
PEOPLE'S FOR IN EXHIBIT
IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE
PAGE VOL. PAGE VOL.
46-B - PHOTOGRAPH OF 19055 108
THE CRIME SCENE WITH YELLOW TAPE, ONE
RED ARROW AND THE INITIALS "LT. S"
43-E(1) - PHOTOGRAPH OF 19057 108
THE CRIME SCENE WITH THE BODY OF VICTIM
RONALD GOLDMAN, ONE RED ARROW AND THE
INITIALS "LT. S"
63 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 19183 108
360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM AVENUE WITH A RED
ARROW AND THE INITIALS"P.V."
??
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