TELECOM Digest     Sat, 15 Jan 94 00:17:00 CST    Volume 14 : Issue 30

Inside This Issue:                          Editor: Patrick A. Townson

   Re: Norwegian CLID (was "Anonymous Call Rejection") ([email protected])
   Re: Technical Description of PBXs Wanted (Al Varney)
   Re: Internet <- > FIDOnet Mail/File Transfer (Alan Boritz)
   Re: ISDN: Coming Soon to my House? (Rob Knauerhase)
   Re: ISDN: Coming Soon to my House? (Robert L. McMillin)
   Re: All Wire Isn't The Same (Alain Fontaine)
   Re: All Wire Isn't The Same ([email protected])
   Re: All Wire Isn't The Same (Tom Watson)
   Re: Truckstop Calling Cards (Ed Greenberg)
   Re: Truckstop Calling Cards (Ben Cox)
   Re: Truckstop Calling Cards (John R. Levine)
   Re: Phone Line Simulator Wanted (Paul Cook)
   Re: Phone Line Simulator Wanted ([email protected])
   Re: Phonebook on CD-ROM/Internet? (Pat Barron)
   Re: Phonebook on CD-ROM/Internet? (Matthew Aldridge)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 21:55:16 +0100
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Norwegian CLID (was "Anonymous Call Rejection")


In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
wrote:

> Perhaps some of us do want to read the full argument.  It would be
> very enlightening to know how this issue is viewed in other countries
>  -- especially one like Norway whose telecommunications decisions
> usually seem very well thought out.

Well, there are two parts to this. One is implementing CLID, the other
is giving ANI to other operators so that they may use that information
for CLID.

The first CLID customers in Norway will be ISDN users. However, the
question is not only about technology. There's been a long discussion
about the privacy considerations (from the originating end of the
call).  I'm not the right person to give a neutral account of that
debate.

The question about sending ANI out of Norway is in general covered by
CCITT agreements. It may be done, but I don't like to open up that
privacy debate once more.

Wrt the privacy debate, it's funny to note that there wasn't much said
about the privacy of the people being called. One reason for this may
be that CLID was only viewed as available to ISDN customers, and that
would mean business customers. Personally I look very much forward to
the moment I can screen them late night calls.

The privacy debate extends to detailed billing as well as CLID, but
opposition comes from the comsumer rights people. Personally I was a
bit bored at this stage, but I managed to stay just to watch the fun
when the concept of "B number masking" was introduced.

> Apart from the idea of doing all exchange modernisation and number
> changes at ten to four in the afternoon ... on Thursday afternoons,
> isn't it?

If you think about the work usually noticed by the always important
customers you're wrong. The final stage of such work is usually
started at 5 pm Fridays. Thursday afternoon would be the time new
number plans are implemented. Please don't ask what we do the other
days ...


Haakon Styri   <[email protected]>
Norwegian Telecom Research *** std disclaimer applies ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 17:33:31 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Technical Description of PBXs Wanted
Organization: AT&T


In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
(Mike Renault) writes:

> Don Pelton <[email protected]> writes:

>> I'm looking for sources of good technical descriptions of PBX
>> technology and standards. Can anyone suggest books, articles,
>> newsgroups and/or other internet resources? Standards documents?

> PBX standard for the US is ANSI/EIA/TIA-464-A-1989.

> Title is "Private Branch Exchange Switching Equipment for Voiceband
> Application".

> My copy cost $67.00.  This document is aimed towards the designers of
> PBXs.  Call Electrionic Industries Association in Washington DC to
> order, sorry I don't have their phone number.

  My 10-year-old number for orders is:  (202) 457-4966.  The address:

       Electronics Industry Association
       2001 Eye Street, NW, Washington, DC  20006

   (Is there really an "Eye" street or is it "I Street" renamed?)

  Their Catalog of EIA/JEDEC Standards is about $10 -- good reference.

  To understand the Standards, you'll need the IEEE standards on test
methods and measurements.  Catalog of standards is free (last I
heard), on 1-800-678-IEEE or +1 908 981-0600.

  Note that EIA-464 refers to PBX interface standards for connection
to public networks.  For PBX internal information, you'll have to pry
that out of a talkative vendor -- other than UL, Nat. Elect. Code and
Fire Code standards, PBXs have no standards.  Witness the PC versions ....

  Seriously, some older PBX designs are described in various
conference proceedings (NCF, ISS, IEEE, etc.).  State-of-the-art PBX
designs are unlikely to be publicly documented, unfortunately.


Al Varney - just my opinion

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Internet <- > FIDOnet Mail/File Transfer
From: [email protected] (Alan Boritz)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 07:58:50 EST
Organization: Harry's Place BBS - Mahwah NJ - +1 201 934 0861


[email protected] (David McIntyre) writes:

>> I would like to have some information on transferring mail between
>> Internet/Bitnet and FIDOnet:

>> 6. How should (binary) files be transferred?
>> UUEncoded or so?

> Yes.

Excuse me, but files are NOT transferred through routed mail within
FidoNet.  Most gateways (including mine) will block such messages
without prior arrangement.

>> 7. Are FIDOnet users (especially points) able to order files from the
>>    SIMTEL collection or other public file systems? If yes, how?

> I suppose they could, though a mail-server.

No, not unless set up in advance.  fidonet.org is set up to block
mailing lists and ftp servers.  Unlike the internet, most FidoNet
routed mail is done through regular timed pots line calls, so each
routed message carries a price tag.

In general, if a message can't be entirely understood as plain
language (clear text), it can't be sent via routed mail to a FidoNet
system.


Alan - f102.n2605.z1.fidonet.org
aboritz%[email protected]  or  uunet!drharry!aboritz
Harry's Place BBS (drharry.UUCP) - Mahwah NJ USA - +1-201-934-0861

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Rob Knauerhase)
Subject: Re: ISDN: Coming Soon to my House?
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:19:47 PST
Organization: Intel Mobile Software Lab, Hillsboro, OR


In a previous message, Robert L. McMillin wrote:

> [...] my switch is set up to handle ISDN! [...] According to my
> friend, ISDN is currently tarriffed in California under a provisional
> business class of service, which means that I'll pay probably a little
> more per month ($35, I recall) than I might if there were an ISDN
> available under a residential service plan.  Nonetheless, it does seem
> quite reasonable given the potential benefits.

That depends on your usage; for me (in GTE Northwest land), it'd be
much much more expensive than POTS lines.  It might be for you, too,
depending on how you plan to use it.

After talking to five different people in the local GTE residential
and business sales offices (favorite quote: "What is ISDN?", from two
people in residential sales), I finally found someone willing to admit
that they could sell me ISDN service.  Interestingly enough, their
price was $48/month for 2B+D, which would provide two voice lines and
two phone numbers.  This is about the same price as two unmeasured
POTS lines -- what a deal.

Of course, this is GTE.  There has to be a catch.  For data, they
charge the same as measured-by-minute local calls.  I asked if that
mightn't be perhaps the silliest way to bill it (data calls by the
minute), when a major benefit of digital telephony is that when I'm
not using it, I'm _not using it_! (mostly)

That of course didn't phase them.  Even at pennies/minute, the
advantage of faster speed is removed by cost when I can do plain-ol'
14.4K with compression for "free."  Is _anyone_ bothering to campaign
phone companies and Public Utilities Commissions so that we can get
this tarriffed in a reasonable manner (at least in places other than
Oregon)?

[Side note for those keeping score: US West in Portland offers 2B+D
for $90/month, no limit on data.  Of course, you can't make an ISDN
data call between GTE and US West just yet, but they're working on
it.]


Rob Knauerhase   [[email protected]]   Intel Mobile Software Lab

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 02:29 PST
From: [email protected] (Robert L. McMillin)
Subject: Re: ISDN: Coming Soon to my House?


On Thu, 13 Jan 1994 16:20:27, [email protected] (David McIntyre) said:

> In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
> (Robert L. McMillin) writes:

>> The thread about quantization and signal/noise on a POTS line has me
>> thinking that maybe all this will be increasingly obsolete.  According
>> to the 800 number posted recently on this forum, my switch is set up to
>> handle ISDN!

> What is this 800 number again?

  800-995-0346

Of course, this is in Pac*Bell land only.

Additional news: while the site survey hasn't been done yet, I'm assured
by someone else locally that Pac*Bell will install any needed repeaters
free, a big turnaround from the days when that company required big fees
to extend digital services.

But the best news is yet to come.  According to my friend the ISDN
reseller, the new rate card for Pac*Bell digital services shows some BIG
price cuts.  Unfortunately, I don't have the info with me, but suffice
it to say that T1 will be nearly cheap enough to be within reach of the
residential high-volume talker -- around $135 a month is what I remember
him saying.  (But there's still an impossibly high installation fee of
around $700.)  And get this: no per-mile charges out of the CO.
Switched 56 and SDS (Pac*Bell's ISDN offering) will be substantially
cheaper.

It may not be very long before we start talking about residential
T1-class services.  (I hope that before this becomes reality, Pac*Bell
drops the $0.01/min for local calls it charges under the provisional
business tarriff; residential service is residential service!)  I expect
that one of the hot topics this year will be T1 and/or ISDN ISA and
NuBus cards, this supplanting the continuous dull roar of speculation
and hearsay surrounding the ITU's v.37 standard-in-progress.

While it's premature to predict the demise of the analog modem, its last
hurrah is in sight.


Robert L. McMillin  | [email protected] | Netcom: [email protected]


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: The message referenced above posted by
David McIntire was an unauthorized posting to Usenet's comp.dcom.telecom
newsgroup which has since been cancelled by myself so as a result it
was not seen by the list readers.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Alain Fontaine)
Subject: Re: All Wire Isn't The Same
Organization: Universite Catholique de Louvain
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:47:18 GMT


In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Carl
Oppedahl) wrote:

> In <[email protected]> John Warne <[email protected]>
> writes:

>> The cross-sectional view of one wire reveals the plastic outer sheath
>> is formed around the conductors in a cloverleaf-like pattern, holding
>> a certain relationship between the conductors for the length of the
>> cable (AT&T *used* to make their two-pair stuff this way), resulting
>> in less crosstalk between pairs.

> I am sure the person posting this is well-intended, but I fear that
> through inadvertence the phrasing used may make people buy wire other
> than the stuff they wanted to buy.

> This is Bad Wire For Two-Line Use.  It is the cloverleaf type wire
> mentioned above.  Many Readers Have Reported Cross-Talk With Such
> Wire.

The phone company here uses such cable to install the underground ties
to the master cable below the street. When I had a second line
installed, they just took the second pair. I have no crosstalk
problems, and despite the fact that my house is about 100 meter (330
ft) away from the street.  Just another data point ...  /AF

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (ssatchell on BIX)
Subject: Re: All Wire Isn't The Same
Date: 14 Jan 94 17:25:01 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation


A brief follow-up to Carl Oppendhal's excellent description of the
evil of older inside wiring:

In debugging crosstalk problems, I'm finding more and more that people
who have installed twisted-pair wire don't understand that telephone
signals HAVE TO TRAVEL OVER THE PAIR properly to avoid crosstalk.  If
you use, for example blue/white and orange/white, the telephone signal
isn't travelling properly through a pair, but instead is using one
wire from each twisted pair.  Hooking a second line up will virtually
guarantee crosstalk.

Also, I've seen installations which connect the ring lead of two phone
wires together.  This effectively unbalances the pair from the connection
point all the way back to the central office, which makes for huge cross-
talk problems.

Routing of unshielded twisted-pair is important, too.  Keep it at
least two inches away from any metal object such as water pipes, gas
pipes, iron sewage lines, air ducts, electrical conduit, or electrical
power wiring.  (Don't sweat nails or the occasional pipe hanger.)  The
original intent of the separation was to provide air space between
telephone wire and grounded objects such that a lightning strike
wouldn't arc over and damage the wire, but the practice has proven to
benefit crosstalk, too.

If you can't avoid running next to metal, consider using shielded
twisted-pair wire instead.  You need only an overall shield, not a
shield around every pair.

Care in wiring makes all the difference in the world.


Stephen Satchell, Principal
Satchell Evaluations, Incline Village, Nevada USA
Testing modems for magazines since 1984

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Tom Watson)
Subject: Re: All Wire Isn't The Same
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:53:17 -0800
Organization: Apple Computer (more or less)


All this talk about twisting wires and such reminds me of the various
outside open-wire lines I see while driving about (Hint: usually near
railroads).  These have what are called "transpositions" which are
magical four-insulator thingy-jobs (high-tech techinical term!) that
twist the wires.  The fact that they were needed was discovered
long-long ago when the concept of long-distance was just being tested
out.  If one looks at early books, there are all sorts of formulas and
diagrams for doing this operation.  Perhaps a good history buff will
look up some.


Tom Watson   [email protected]

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Ed Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Truckstop Calling Cards
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 16:17:34 GMT


> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Those are called 'Talk Tickets' and
> they are a bit expensive at 50 cents per minute of domestic use although

Considering that they are paid for up front, talk tickets should cost
no more than ten to fifteen cents per minute.  Think about it.  No
billing, no uncollectables, no customer service, no credit for wrong
numbers, no nothing.

The cost of talk tickets should in no way exceed standard direct
dialed rates.  Anything more is a rip-off.


Ed Greenberg           [email protected]        Ham Radio: KM6CG

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Ben Cox)
Subject: Re: Truckstop Calling Cards
Organization: Ancient Illuminated Bavarian Sears
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 19:30:05 GMT


[email protected] (Scott M. Pfeffer) writes:

> Recently I was traveling home from Atlanta to St. Louis.  I stopped at
> a gas station somewhere in Tennessee or Kentucky for refreshments,
> refilling, and relief, and noticed something very interesting in a

PAT writes:

> cards like this at a similar rate. Personally, I prefer the Orange
> Card with its 25 cent per minute rate and no surcharge.   PAT]

Incidentally, I encountered a pay phone at a gas station along route
70 in Ohio or Indiana (i.e., somewhere between Pittsburgh and
Indianapolis or so) that had a HUGE banner attached to it, with a
picture of an orange and "Call home for 25 cents per minute" in orange
on it.   :)


Ben Cox    [email protected]


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: That is correct. The Orange Communications
people now have a collect service as well as a calling card. To try it
out, use the number 1-800-TALK-4-25. Your call will be forwarded collect
at that rate to whatever number you requested.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 18:53 EST
From: [email protected] (John R Levine)
Subject: Re: Truckstop Calling Cards
Organization: I.E.C.C., Cambridge, Mass.


> [At a truck stop] a stack of pre-authorized long distance calling cards.

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Those are called 'Talk Tickets' ...
> Western Union also has prepaid calling cards like this at a similar rate.

So do Sprint and an outfit called Liberty Tel, both at rates closer to
33 cents/min than to 50 cents.  It's not entirely clear to me who the
target market is: people with no home phone (particularly students)?
people who are too clueless to get a calling card? The anonymous call
crowd?

Evidently they do sell them, but I wouldn't have thought that the market
was very large.


Regards,

John Levine, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 13:06 EST
From: Proctor & Associates <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Phone Line Simulator Wanted


[email protected] (David Jones) writes:

> I am in need of a phone line simulator.  It will be used to verify the
> functionality of modems for a large computing network.

> This device need not be complex -- I need dial tone, DTMF detection,
> ring signal generation and an analog path whose noise characteristics
> approximate that of a real phone line (i.e. 3300 Hz BW, -34 dB S/N).

Any of the Proctor Telephone Demonstrators will do this.  There are
three models, from two to four lines, and the newest one will also do
Caller ID and CENTREX emulation.

Contact Proctor via email, fax or phone at one of the numbers below
for more information.


Paul Cook                       206-881-7000
Proctor & Associates       MCI Mail 399-1080
15050 NE 36th St.          fax: 206-885-3282
Redmond, WA  98052-5378              [email protected]

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (ssatchell on BIX)
Subject: Re: Phone Line Simulator Wanted
Date: 14 Jan 94 05:18:25 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation


[email protected] (David Jones) writes:

> I am in need of a phone line simulator.  It will be used to verify the
> functionality of modems for a large computing network.

> This device need not be complex -- I need dial tone, DTMF detection,
> ring signal generation and an analog path whose noise characteristics
> approximate that of a real phone line (i.e. 3300 Hz BW, -34 dB S/N).

> Any ideas as to where I can get one cheap?  Even used?

David,

    The cheapest I'm aware of is the PTT 5101, if you can find one
used.  They are located in Huntsville, AL and you can call (205)
971-8001 for more information.  Old TAS boxes are out there as well,
like the original Model 100.  You can check with TAS at (908)
544-8700.  To round it all out, Consultronics (formerly AEA) has a box
as well, but I haven't heard of used ones for sale as Consultronics
has been upgrading existing boxes; try (613) 225-6087 and see what
they say.

Teltone has some boxes, but they don't have the right loss characteristics.

If you prefer, you can get these phone simulators on rental if your
need is short-term, and the rental prices are coming down on the older
units.

Another option is to find a company with the capability of performing
the testing for you.  There is Henderson Communications in San Moreno
CA at 909-788-8849, or Satchell Evaluations (me) could do it (I'm at
702- 832-7157) for perhaps much less than you could get a simulator.
If you are looking for go/no-go acceptance tests, it should cost you
very little to use one of the independent test labs.


Stephen Satchell, Satchell Evaluations
Testing modems for magazines since 1984.
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

------------------------------

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Phonebook on CD-ROM/Internet?
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 16:12:42 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


[email protected] (Claes Gussing) writes:

> I was wondering if one can get the phonebook on CD-ROM in the U.S?  I
> know this wouldn't work in Sweden, since we have some law about
> keeping personal data on automatically readable media (as the phone-
> book wouldn't be, with OCR ...). I thought maybe in the U.S. this
> would work. A CD-ROM carries 650 Mbyte of memory, so some 5-10 disks
> should carry the whole U.S!

I just bought "PhoneDisc USA" at the local Egghead Software store.
US$65.00 for two discs of residential listings (they claim 80 million
listings from telephone directories across the country on the two
discs).

Pretty cool, except:

    * It's out of date as soon as it's published,
    * Only includes listed numbers (the company has phone
      numbers from sources other than telephone directories,
      but they seem to filter out unlisted numbers on these
      discs - I don't think they do that on their commercial discs),
    * You can only search on a person's name, and then limit the
      search based on their address, city, state, zip, or area
      code - i.e., can't "reverse lookup" a phone number to see
      who it belongs to.

The target audience for this package is apparently people who have a
PC in their home, and just want an on-line phone directory - it's not
targetted for commercial usage (the company that sells this - sorry, I
don't remember who it is - has other products for business use, with
things like "reverse lookup" capability, which they will be happy to
sell you ...).

I wouldn't put up a server with this info on the net, due to licensing
restrictions from the database provider.


Pat

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Matthew Aldridge)
Subject: Re: Phonebook on CD-ROM/Internet?
Date: 14 Jan 1994 22:02:48 GMT
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham


For the interest of those overseas the UK phonebook is available on
CD-ROM from British Telecom.

It is called Phonebase and subscription costs are quite high, but I
guess overseas purchasers may get a special deal.

If you want it though I'd get in there quick because they seem to be
on the verge of a major policy change -- mainly price increases.

Phonebase is also available online, but only currently at V22bis -- ask
BT.


Later,

Matt JD Aldridge
Room A13a, Lincoln Hall, University Park, Nottingham, NG7 2QU, England
[email protected]   Arcade BB  +44 (81) 654-2212 & +44 (81) 655-4412
User #184

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V14 #30
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