TELECOM Digest Thu, 23 Dec 93 05:04:00 CST Volume 13 : Issue 836
Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson
Re: The Superhighway and Telcos (Mike Lanza)
Re: Info Highway - 28 Companies (Jim Burkitt)
Re: NEC NEAX 2400 Peculiarity (
[email protected])
Re: Quantum Economics (was Union Losing Telco Jobs) (Andrew C. Green)
Re: Being Paged by Mystery 800 Number (Bud Couch)
Re: FCC: No! GTE!!! (Steven H. Lichter)
Re: Privacy and Caller ID/Auto Callback? (Jay Hennigan)
Re: Mobilink Service (Mark Bryan)
Modem Monitoring Question (Mark Case)
ISDN in 513? (Paul Joslin)
Yellow Pages On-Line Anywhere? (Vamsee Lakamsani)
X.25 to Mexico (Laurence Chiu)
Intro Book on Telecommunications Wanted (Jeff Sokolov)
Free E-Newsletter on Advanced Computing and Communications (David S. Lewis)
Panasonic EKT2105 Information Wanted (Leonard Erickson)
Chaos Digest Finished For the Year; Happy Holidays From Editor (J-B Condat)
Administrivia: A Break For Christmas (TELECOM Digest Editor)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 14:14:28 GMT
From: Mike Lanza <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: The Superhighway and Telcos
>> What we really need is a new packet-switched network [with faster dialups]
> ...
>> In addition, the market is crying out for ubiquitous one-number access, ...
>> How about a new 950 service (950 is better than 800 since it avoids
>> local access charges) ...
> Holy modem tax, Batman!
> There's a good reason you don't see one number access: it costs more.
> When a long-distance company connects to the local phone network, it pays,
> by modem standards, a stiff price, four or five cents per minute, or
> roughly $3/hr at each end of the connection. If you call a 950 or 800
> number, whoever the carrier is pays that, even if you don't directly see
> it on the bill. AT&T has one-number 950-1288 service, but it's only used
> for on-line services that are already so expensive that an extra $3/hr
> isn't a big deal.
Yes, but only one local access charge -- for the user's side of the
call -- need be paid if a packet-switched network takes that call and
delivers it to the server (by X.25 or frame relay). Sprint's pricing
for a service that does this, their "Data Call 800" service, is
actually a fair amount more than their pricing for T1-delivered 800
service (i.e. Sprint delivers calls to their customer by T1, thus
bypassing one local access charge). It's hard to compare these
directly, but when I looked at it it seemed to come out to about $10
or $11 per hour for Data Call 800 versus about $8 or so for
T1-delivered 800 service. I think Sprint could eliminate that
differential if they really wanted to (and they should want to).
Besides, the rep I spoke with about Data Call 800 was very unfamiliar
with it and didn't seem to be interested in selling it.
AT&T's 950-1288 goes for around $11 to $13 per hour as I recall.
Again, that's way too high, when the packet networks start at about
$6, and drop to as little as $2 with the highest volumes.
> The 'modem tax' brouhaha from 1987 was about these connection costs.
> The FCC, not totally unreasonably, said that packet networks look a lot
> like long-distance phone companies, so they should connect to the phone
> network in the same way. This would allow all sorts of swell features not
> now available, e.g. Sprintnet could assign each of their providers a 700
> number so you could dial directly to the service you want, using the same
> number regardless of where you're caling from, instead of having to dial a
> local Sprintnet number, then go through a second dialing dialog to tell it
> who you really want to talk to. But along with a real phone connection
> comes real phone pricing, and nobody wanted to pay that extra $3/hr. So
> the FCC backed off and left us with the current situation where packet
> nets have a special rule that lets them connect to the phone network like
> ordinary business customers, without paying any per-minute charge.
I wonder if a packet network could push this "special rule" even
further by using a 950 number and getting around the local access
charges. The answer to this is probably no, but what are the local
access charges for 950? Are they identical to 800, or are they
cheaper? If they are identical, what's the advantage over 800? (Is
dialing three fewer numbers really that big a deal?)
> I suspect the main reason you don't see 9600 bps dial-up packet network
> connections is that there's not much demand for them. By the time you
> factor in the slowdowns due to network connection, and consider how much
> cheaper normal long distance is compared to 10 years ago when the packet
> nets were getting giong, it's about as fast to dial direct at 14.4K.
C'mon! There *certainly* is demand for 9.6K as well as 14.4K
connections. As I noted in my original message, most modems being
sold these days are 14.4K. It's been a long time since 2400 bps
modems were among the biggest sellers.
As for dialing direct vs. packet, I agree that direct is almost as
cheap, but that's only because the packet networks still have their
heads up their butts with regard to high speed capacity.
A caveat with respect to dialing direct -- I understand that the long
distance carriers, Sprint and MCI in particular, are known to use
compression schemes and echo cancellation schemes that make modem
communication at 9.6 or 14.4Kbps very difficult or impossible. I'm
not home now (away for the holidays), but I can dig up a message I
pulled from CompuServe on this issue when I return on 12/29, if anyone
is interested.
> If you want to complain about slow data connections, complain about the
> local telcos who have been slow to introduce ISDN, which provides dual 64K
> bps connections, and have done so at prices that make it unattractive.
> There's also a chicken and egg problem here: ISDN per-minute prices are,
> by and large, the same as toll rates, but ISDN connections can be set up
> and taken down very fast, so a connection of a few seconds makes sense.
> If Compuserve, say, were set up so you called in via ISDN, it blatted a
> few hundred K of screens and hung up, then you pondered off-line for a few
> seconds, then reconnected, it blatted a few more hundred K and hung up,
> you could actually be connected for only five minutes out of each hour,
> and even at regular phone rates, the phone bill would be on the order of
> 75 cents/hr. But since there isn't much ISDN, there's not much incentive
> to make things work that way.
Yeah, I've thought about this one a lot. Lightning-fast call setup,
as well as a 64K data pipe, would be aweswome for online services.
The problem here, though, does not lie just with the telcos. It also
lies with the ISDN primary rate (2B+D) spec. It's basically one voice
channel (which the customer already has today) and one 64K data pipe.
That promises very little advantage over what he has now. On the
other hand, in order to adopt ISDN the customer has to trash all his
phones in favor of ISDN phones at $100 a piece at least.
------------------------------
Date: 22 Dec 1993 14:28:14 GMT
From: JIM BURKITT <
[email protected]>
Subject: Info Highway - 28 Companies
Bob Rosenberg asked about 28 companies supporting a Info Super
Highway. The December 20, 1993 issue of {Telephony} on page eight
talks about the Cross Industry Working Team (XIWT). This group plans
to issue a white paper early next year on architectural and technical
requirements for the super highway. The members of the team are:
Apple, AT&T, Bellcore, BellSouth, Cable Television Laboratories,
Citicorp, DEC, GTE Labs, H-P, IBM, Intel, MCI, McCaw, Motorola, NYNEX,
Pac Bell, Silicon Graphics, Sun, Southwestern Bell, CBEMA, Cisco,
Financial Services Consortium, Hughes Network Systems, Science
Applications International, Sprint, 3Com,West Publishing and Xerox.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 15:53:59 CDT
From:
[email protected]
Reply-To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: NEC NEAX 2400 Peculiarity
In TELECOM Digest V13 #833, Will Martin <
[email protected]>
wrote:
> When I make an outside-line call on our NEC NEAX 2400 system here at
> work (dialing 9 and then the local seven-digit number), the system has
> the annoying habit of giving me a ring-sound (in the handset or the
> speaker, depending which is turned on) and then a click that sounds
? *exactly* like the far end picking up on the call. However, it is not
> -- the ring sounds then continue until the called party answers or I
> hang up. What is going on that causes this initial ring-tone that I
> hear followed by that click? Is it the process of the unit selecting
> an outside trunk? If so, why does it give me a ring first?
I used to help in operating a 2400. It is difficult to offer an
answer without knowing more about how that particular 2400 is set up.
It's possible that the system is using "least cost routing", in which
case the 2400 simulates second dial tone (after you dial 9) and looks
at the entire dialed number before it decides which outgoing trunk to
use. However, if that were the case, the system would not simulate
ring tone. If you hear ring, it would be from the outgoing line.
The 2400 uses a register card to actually recieve and decode the touch
tones. After the 2400 has determined the correct trunk to use,
connected the call to the trunk and signalled the destination number
out, it doesn't need the register card anymore, so it drops the card
out of the circuit. That may be the click you are hearing.
On the other hand, any number of other things could be happening. The
call could be being forwarded by some other switching equipment.
The best way to find out is to ask the people who maintain the system.
David Devereaux-Weber, P.E.
[email protected] (Internet)
The University of Wisconsin - Madison (608)262-3584 (voice)
DoIT - MACC Communications; B263 (608)262-4679 (FAX)
1210 W Dayton St. Madison, WI 53706
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 16:46:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Andrew C. Green <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Quantum Economics (was Union Losing Telco Jobs)
Kriston J. Rehberg (
[email protected]) writes:
��
> The rest of the 300 or so "channels" [...] are used for things
> such as Direct-To-Home viewing of Request or Pay-Per-View events,
> [...] INTERACTIVE television, [...] and (in the case of our local
> cable company) a fully monitored home security system that won't
> depend on the telephone company anymore.
Well, this was roughly the point where I spewed my coffee all over the
keyboard. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I distinctly prefer
my fully-monitored home security system to be dependent on our local
telephone company than our local cable company, thankyouverymuch. It's
just a question of reliability: in the darkness of our occasional
blackouts I can always pick up the phone, hear the dialtone and see
the nice backlit green keypad light up. Whereas the cable service
seems to be routinely knocked out by everything but Rising Tensions in
the Middle East.
I honestly cannot remember any time when our home phone service was
out of order, and upon reflection I can think of many everyday
applications that rely on telephone lines being up and running 24
hours a day. While I do not doubt the technical ability of the cable
companies to produce this promised _level_ of service, I have serious
reservations about the ability (of _our_ current outfit, anyway) to
provide any reasonable _quality_ of same.
Andrew C. Green
Datalogics, Inc. Internet:
[email protected]
441 W. Huron UUCP: ..!uunet!dlogics!acg
Chicago, IL 60610-3498 FAX: (312) 266-4473
------------------------------
From:
[email protected] (Bud Couch)
Subject: Re: Being Paged by Mystery 800 Number
Organization: ADC Kentrox Industries, Inc.
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 23:57:38 GMT
In article <
[email protected]>
[email protected] (David A. Kaye)
writes:
> Dave Niebuhr (
[email protected]) wrote:
>>
[email protected] (Console Cowboy) writes:
>>> I was paged five times in five minute intervals today by an 800
>>> number. Dialing the 800 number reveals a modem. It doesn't respond to
>>> any prompts and drops carrier after approximatly five seconds. The
>>> number is 8008841111. Who's doing this and why?
> I don't know if this is an option, but some unscrupulous people were
> billing back calls to 800 numbers with telco look-alike bills a few
> years ago. This may be a scam to get you to call them. In this way,
> they have proof that you did indeed call their number. Sounds fishy,
> I know, but this scam was being done.
Well, if a large charge shows up on our company bill, I'm sure that
they will track it back to my extension, and I'll report on it here.
In the meantime, let me offer my own WAG. I tried the number from my
PC and found that it connected at *1200* bps, although my modem is a
V.22bis (2400). This means that the machine at the other end is
forcing the speed to be that low. Why?
I suspect that the modem on the other end is an older (in modem terms
more than two years is *old*) ZOOM modem, for their 1200 units had an
interesting security feature: the entry password to the modem was not
an ascii string, but a four number *touchtone* sequence.If the correct
code wasn't entered within a few seconds of answer, the unit hung up.
We may have just stumbled into someone's database "server" that has
this security feature.
Bud Couch - ADC Kentrox
[email protected] (192.228.59.2)
insert legalistic bs disclaimer here
------------------------------
From:
[email protected] (Steven H. Lichter)
Subject: Re: FCC: No! GTE!!!
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria, B.C.
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 20:51:05 GMT
All the pending cases maybe moot since Clinton/Gore are moving towards
allowing the companies to offer just about any service they want to
including LD service. Can you just see Pacific Bell Screen Door/Cable
and Telephone company?
The above maybe my own ideas and not my employer.
------------------------------
From:
[email protected] (Jay Hennigan)
Subject: Re: Privacy and Caller ID/Auto Callback?
Date: 22 Dec 1993 18:05:22 -0800
Organization: Regional Access Information Network (RAIN)
In article <
[email protected]>
[email protected].
edu (Jon Edelson) writes:
> In the first message of this thread, a question was asked about
> blocking Caller ID in a situation where a social worker was calling
> from home. Rather then getting into the whole 'right to Caller ID
> discussion' it seems to me that calls from someone representing the
> social agency should be identified as calling from the social agency.
> The social agency is 'responsible' for the call, and while I think
> that people have the right to know who 'made' a call, I don't see why
> a home number needs to be made known for a business call, as long as
> the business is identified.
Sounds like a perfect application for DISA via the government agency's
telephone system to me. > >
[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I quite agree. An 'alternate ID message'
should be provided for people in that category of employment who do
some or all of their work from home. That should resolve many of the
complaints about privacy we hear now. PAT]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 01:45:22 -0600
From:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: Mobilink Service
Pat and company,
Mobilink is made up of several cell providers nationwide, Mobilnet
being only one of the companies. Their goal is to provide a complete
network for roaming and service 24 hours a day. Also to obtain service
on your phone in a distance city if necessary.
I have been told you can reach Mobilink at 800-877-5665. I was told
the number in the ad is sent to this group for handling.
However, in the event you cannot dial that 800 number from your
calling are the same group is reachable at 813-282-6000 and ask for
customer service.
Mark Bryan GTE Data Services
------------------------------
From:
[email protected] (Mark Case)
Subject: Modem Monitoring Question
Date: 22 Dec 1993 18:43:46 GMT
Organization: USACE Waterways Experiment Station
Hi folks,
I am posting a question for a friend. Granted, it is a very vague
question, but here goes anyway. Suppose there is a remote location at
which there is a microwave transmitter and a modem, and suppose this
location goes down. The question is: how can the location be
monitored so that it may be determined whether the problem is with the
modem or with the transmitter?
Thanks in advance for any information.
Mark Case
------------------------------
From:
[email protected] (Paul Joslin (Sverdrup))
Subject: ISDN in 513?
Date: 22 Dec 1993 19:41:08 GMT
Organization: Model Based Vision Lab, Wright Laboratory
Does it exist? It must, since bbs.combinet.com tells me it's been
available at my home exchange (513 42X) since September. I called the
local phone company business office, and was referred to a special
ISDN number: +1 800 821 4919. I've tried this number several times a
day for the last week, and it is always busy. Is this number not
dialable from 513/ 25x?
Is anyone out there?
Paul R. Joslin +1 513 255 1115
------------------------------
From:
[email protected] (Vamsee Lakamsani)
Subject: Yellow Pages On-Line Anywhere?
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 18:06:36 CST
Organization: Software Interfaces, Inc.
It is very convenient to have the yellow pages accessible on-line. Do
any US cities have this facility? Is there any reason not to make
yellow pages accessible on-line?
Vamsee Lakamsani
[email protected]
------------------------------
From:
[email protected] (Laurence Chiu)
Subject: X.25 to Mexico
Date: 22 Dec 1993 18:42:32 -0800
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access
Our company has a requirement to connect to a company in Mexico so
that we are able to logon to their IBM mainframe from here. We would
normally use the IBM Advantis network to achieve this but apparently
IBM is not approved to provide SNA connections to Mexico yet. The
customer is getting anxious and now wants to go X.25 via GE Net
(Genesis?). This is okay except we would now have to get a leased line
from the local Telco (Pacific Bell) and the company in Mexico would
need to get a leased line from their premises to the nearest GE
office.
Thoughts around here are that the delays in making this connect will
be the leased lines in Mexico followed by the leased lines in
California! Does anybody have any thoughts on this? How good is the
PT&T in Mexico (City) in providing comms?
Laurence Chiu Walnut Creek, California
Tel: 510-215-3730 (work) Internet:
[email protected]
------------------------------
From:
[email protected] (Jeff Sokolov)
Subject: Intro Book on Telecommunications Wanted
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Incorporated
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 13:24:29 GMT
I am looking for recommendations for introductory books on
telecommunications. I'm familiar with Pierce's "Signals" but would
like something more recent.
Thanks in advance.
Jeff Sokolov GTE Laboratories, Incorporated
40 Sylvan Road Waltham, MA 02254 (617) 466-4042
------------------------------
��
From:
[email protected] (David Scott Lewis)
Subject: Free E-Newsletter on Advanced Computing and Communications
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 07:12:02 GMT
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 17:06:00 PST
From:
[email protected] (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Panasonic EKT2105 Information Wanted
I've got a friend who has one of these, still in the box, but with no
documentation. It looks to me like it's a digital phone for use with a
PBX. Can anybody give me any info on it, including what it's worth,
and what the minimum system it'll run with is?
Thanks,
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!51!Leonard.Erickson
Internet:
[email protected]
------------------------------
From:
[email protected]
Subject: Chaos Digest Finished For the Year; Happy Holidays From Editor
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 10:27:28 EST
With the issue #1.73, ChaosD is down for '93 for the holidays. We'll
be back with #2.01 about Jan. 3, '94. We will, however, continue to
answer mail during the break.
Thank for your support and assistance during the past year, and we
look forward to the coming year.
The French translation of Mark A. Ludwig's book, "Naissance d'un
Virus" is now available at the editor address: Addison-Wesley France,
41 rue de Turbigo, 75003 Paris, France (Phone: +33 1 48879797 fax: +33
1 48879799) Don't hesitate to order it directly (circa 198 FF +
porto).
Bonne et heureuse annee a tous ... et le paradis a la fin de votre vie.
Jean-Bernard Condat General Secretary Chaos Computer Club France
[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: And greetings to all of you from us
here in the USA at this holiday season. Like yourself, this Digest is
now winding down for the Christmas holiday, except I'll be back next
week (maybe over the weekend) with at least a couple more issues to
wind up the year. I hope the New Year is a happy one for you. PAT]
------------------------------
From: TELECOM Digest Editor <
[email protected]>
Subject: Administrivia: A Break For Christmas
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 04:45:00 CST
This is the last you'll see of the Digest for a couple days while my
family and I spend the holiday together. I might have an issue or
two of the Digest for you sometime Sunday evening or else Monday
morning; then there will be a few issues during the week ahead as I
try to clean out all my files here to end the year. Have a happy
holiday, and remember, let's put the 'X' back in Xmas! :) PAT]
------------------------------
End of TELECOM Digest V13 #836
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