TELECOM Digest     Mon, 15 Nov 93 02:20:30 CST    Volume 13 : Issue 761

Inside This Issue:                        Moderator: Patrick A. Townson

   Re: Cellular Phone Monitoring Systems (Bill Fischer)
   Re: ADSI (Al Varney)
   Re: Cordless Phone Systems (Gordon Hlavenka)
   Re: Problems With Michigan Bell (John Perkins)
   Re: Information About Iridium Wanted (Jeffrey Oliver Breen)
   Re: Calling Card Question (Carl Oppedahl)
   Re: TDMA vs. CDMA = Betamax vs. VHS? (Ed Casas)
   Re: Need List of Country Codes (Gordon Torrie)
   Re: Feature Interaction (Ed  Leslie)
   Strange Telephone Behavior (Jason Hunsaker)
   Re: What is Transpac? (John R. Levine)
   Re: What is Transpac? ([email protected])
   Re: What is Transpac? (Fazal Majid)
   Re: Skokie, IL, and Telephone History (Paul J. Bell)
   Re: Skokie, IL, and Telephone History (David A. Kaye)
   Re: Minneapolis is no Picnic Either (vs Chicago) (Bill Pfeiffer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected]
Organization: T-8000 Information System
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 21:08:00
Subject: Re: Cellular Phone Monitoring Systems


Robin Singla ([email protected]) had a few questions about cellular
phone monitoring systems.  For the benefit of all readers, the basics
of such monitoring follows:

Calls to and from all phones in a particular cell can be monitored, or
specific numbers can be entered into a log, and all other calls
ignored.  The equipment monitors the data on the cell's control
channel and switches a radio scanner to the specified voice frequency
when the phone makes or receives a call in that cell.  The equipment
will change to a new voice frequency each time the phone switches,
ensuring that the complete call is monitored from start to finish.

We have a Cellular Surveillance Interface that performs this function.
It doesn't cost $6000, and it will work on both the AMPS (USA, Canada,
Mexico, Australia) and TACS/ETACS (Europe, Middle East, Southeast
Asia) cellular systems.

I've sent Robin a copy of our brochure by private e-mail to maintain
the non-commercial nature of this forum ;-)


Regards,

Bill Fischer                     Internet: [email protected]
Electronic Countermeasures Inc.  Voice: +1-403-233-0644
65 - 31 Avenue South West        Calgary, AB, Canada T2S 2Y7


[Moderator's Note: No doubt you will send your brochure to anyone who
requests it after seeing your message here also.   PAT]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 00:41:17 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ADSI
Organization: AT&T


In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Robert
Hettmansperger) writes:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>>    TR-1273 says feature-specific TRs will determine if Call Waiting
>> can interrupt a given ADSI "session" (SPCS or "server").  I haven't
>> seen such requirements.  Also, the recovery from an interrupted
>> session is up to the "server".  Just to check the latest,
>> TA-NWT-001436, Visual Screen List Editing, August 1993 (issued 8
>> months after TR-1273) says not one word, zip, about session
>> interruptions of any kind.

> This is not quite true.

   [And Robert explains why Call Waiting won't bother VSLE users,
assuming the switch programmers follow the reference threads ...]

  Thanks, Robert, for pointing out my error.  I still claim there is
no requirement dealing with interrupted sessions in general, but
that's just being picky.

  And also thanks for giving me a chance to correct a mis-conception
spread by my original article.  Even co-workers felt I was a little
"hard" on ADSI -- that was NOT my intent.  ADSI is a reasonable
extension of the Caller-ID interface and provides an improved "feature
control" capability for complex features such as CLASS, as well as to
Call Waiting.  It opens the door to other service providers who don't
need user terminals with full screens and a keyboard.  (See, I'm not
against it!)

  Nor am I concerned with the way Bellcore and/or NTI have pushed the
ADSI interface.  Every new protocol/interface has to have a sponsor,
and prototyping and demonstrating interfaces almost always results in
better standards and requirements, and an overall shorter
idea-to-product window.  I think this has been a good example of
vendor/industry cooperation.

  My only concern was/is related to the issue of "spoofing" such
terminals in the same way TR-30 caller ID boxes can be "spoofed" with
off-hook signaling.  While Bellcore and other close to the original TA
reviews may have been aware of this issue, it did not appear in any
CPE vendor documents.  Awareness could prevent some problems and make
ADSI less "hacker-friendly".  Nothing in the current requirements says
something as simple as a "off-hook message" indicator couldn't be used
to let the user know what's happening.  But if the CPE vendors aren't
reminded to think about it, we can hardly fault them for not doing so
on their own.

> Applications which use a non switch-based server (such as banking,
> etc.)  can not rely on the switch to prevent such interruptions.
> Therefore, they will have to depend on the customer (or the customer's
> CPE) utilizing the Cancel Call Waiting feature.

   Cancel Call Waiting was also mentioned to me by a co-worker as a
specific way around the Call-Waiting-interruption problem with
servers.  Some providers do not bundle Call Waiting and CCW, so that
might have to be required for ADSI "server-based" users who also have
Call Waiting.


Al Varney - just my opinion

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (gordon hlavenka)
Subject: Re: Cordless Phone Systems
Organization: Vpnet - Public Access Unix and Usenet
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 22:02:56 GMT


Delavar K. Khomarlou <[email protected]> wrote:

> Our company is investigating the use of cordless phones (with mobile
> base stations) in our stations (harsh environment).
> We are looking at an 800 Mhz and a 1.2 Ghz
> (European) system.  Can someone tell me which system would have better
> propagation characteristics in this environment?

We've had a SpectraLink system in my office here for about two weeks.
This is an 800MHz system in a normal office environment.

Perhaps our installation is flawed (it was done in one evening by a
non-telco type) but it has not performed well here.  The PTs cut out a
lot, and there is a strong "digital" character to the audio.  Plus an
echo problem.  Cutting out could be explained by poor cell siting, but
the distortion is apparent even when the signal is strong and echo has
nothing to do with (RF) signal strength.


I'd stay away from this one ...


Gordon S. Hlavenka           [email protected]
Proud father of Daniel Scott     born August 9, 1993

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (John Perkins)
Subject: Re: Problems With Michigan Bell
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 23:00:11 GMT


In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Steven M.
Palm) writes:

> [Deleted: long account of incorrect billing by Michigan Bell and
writer's valiant attempt to straighten it out.]

> [Deleted: long list of recommendations by the Moderator on how the
> original writer should proceed]

Here's another approach (that has worked very well for me in the past):

Ignore the whole thing and save yourself a lot of trouble.  There's
really nothing they can do and eventually they'll get tired and give
up.


John Perkins


[Moderator's Note: The only reason I did not suggest that as an
alternative to the original writer was because MBT's collection
agency *might* let something go to a credit bureau on it and then he
would be stuck with removing that. While getting credit bureau repairs
is not impossible, or all that difficult, it still might leave his
credit messed up for awhile in the interim.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey Oliver Breen <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Information About Iridium Wanted
Organization: Dept. of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 22:00:32 GMT


In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
(ravi prakash) writes:

> I would like to get information about the following:

> - Iridium : a low earth orbit mobile satellite system

The latest issue of _Wired_ magazine (1.5 - November 1993) has a
feature article on Iridium and other competing systems (Globalstar,
Ellipso, Aires, and Odyssey).

It's a pretty good review article with some interesting tidbits.  For
example, Iridium is so named (at least partly) because its original
spec called for 77 satellites in orbit: Iridium is element number 77
(==> 77 electrons in orbit). Besides, as the author correctly points
out, "Iridium" sounds better than "Dysprosium", element number 66,
which matches the current spec. :)

_Wired_ lists the following contact information for Iridium:

Iridium, Inc.
13501 Street, NW
Washington, D 20005
(202) 371-6889


Best Regards,

Jeffrey Oliver Breen        Internet: [email protected]
Department of Astronomy     University of Virginia
Charlottesville, VA 22903   (804) 924-7494

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Carl Oppedahl)
Subject: Re: Calling Card Question
Date: 14 Nov 1993 18:48:12 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC


In <[email protected]> [email protected] (danny burstein)
writes:

> In yet another display of my ignorance, I ask the following question:

>  Can a calling card be acquired from either the LEC or an IXC with
> the following restriction: that it can -only- get billed by the Local
> Carrier (where appropriate) or by the disgnated IXC?

>  This would do a good job of reducing the tele-zleaze surcharges.

The answer is, "sort of".  All you have to do is to get a calling card
issued by someone *other* than AT&T or a local operating company.

For example, you could get a card issued by MCI or Sprint.  All calls
are placed via an 800 number or a 950 number or 10XXX, and there are
never any surprises about what the call will cost.  It will always be
billed by MCI or Sprint, at their rates.

You might wonder how local calls are handled in that case.  Don't ask;
it would get MCI or Sprint in trouble if the local operating companies
were to learn that MCI or Sprint sometimes connects local calls in
competition with the local operating company.

Now, it is also the case that *some* of AT&T's cards are also safe
against sleaze.  But why choose a company that costs *more* and only
protects some of its cards?


Carl Oppedahl AA2KW  (patent lawyer)
1992 Commerce Street #309
Yorktown Heights, NY  10598-4412
voice 212-777-1330


[Moderator's Note: He can also get a totally 'independent' calling
card like the Orange Card (25 cents per minute of use, billed in
30 second increments with no surcharge) or use one of his VISA/MC
cards through the hookup they have with MCI.   PAT]

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Ed Casas)
Subject: Re: TDMA vs. CDMA = Betamax vs. VHS?
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 23:21:19 PST


In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:

>> I personally suspect this is a bit of a religious debate,
>> exactly like Betamax vs. VHS, and while technical arguments
>> pro and con can be made, whoever has the best marketing is
>> going to win.  (wink wink)

> It's certainly the case that the debate will be settled
> politically, but it turns out that CDMA has major technical
> advantages: ...

I think these "technical advantages" are mostly a result of Qualcomm
marketing.  For example, I looked at Qualcomm's claims for capacity
improvement and found that their claims were made on the basis of
grossly unfair comparisons.  For example, the Qualcomm system assumed:
more-directional base station antennas, turning off the transmitter
during silent periods to reduce interference, the use of low-rate
high-gain codes, the use of low-rate speech coding, etc.

A fair comparison would have been between a second-generation TDMA
system (which could make use of many of the above techniques) and a
CDMA system.  I think you would then see the capacity advantage for
CDMA eliminated.  You should understand that a CDMA receiver starts
off with a major handicap -- its correlator cannot separate signals
anywhere near as well as a TDMA receiver's IF filter.  You have to use
a lot of tricks to overcome that initial disadvantage.

To me (at least) the technical superiority of CDMA is far from proven.


Ed Casas ([email protected])

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Need List of Country Codes
From: [email protected] (Gordon Torrie)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 10:18:22 -0500
Organization: Torrie Communications Services


Malcolm Dunnett <[email protected]> writes:

>   I'm looking for a list of all the "Country Codes"; either an FTP
> site or someone to post/mail me a copy.

While one might suppose that because Malcom posted his message to this
group he meant the numeric codes one dials to route a call to a
particular country, this was not explicitly stated.

In the event that what he meant was a list of the country codes
assigned by the ISO I will point out that a summary of them is
available by anonymous FTP from ftp.uni-erlangen.de in directory
pub/doc/ISO/english.


Gord Torrie

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Ed  Leslie)
Subject: Re: Feature Interaction
Organization: York University
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 11:45:42 -0500


Tony Harminc ([email protected]) wrote:

> After about an hour, I wondered at my friend's line still being busy
> (he has a modem line, so it wasn't that).  I dialed *66 again, mainly
> out of curiosity to see if the system would give me the same friendly
> message, or would tell me that I had already made the same request.

Does call return not limit its trials to a 30 minute period (assuming
that after that length of time, you have moved on to other things)?


Ed Leslie

------------------------------

From: Jason Hunsaker <[email protected]>
Subject: Strange Telephone Behavior
Date: 14 Nov 93 13:43:19 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


I had an experience last night that I find difficult to understand.

My telephone rang.  I answered.  There was no response.  I was about
to hang up when I heard a click followed by a busy-signal.  This
continued for a few seconds, and then I heard another click.

Then, with the receiver still in my hand and the phone still off hook,
my telephone rang.  I had to hangup to answer the incoming call.  How
is it possible for my phone to be off hook and still activate the
ringer?


Internet: [email protected] (Jason Hunsaker),  Logan, Utah

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 00:35 EST
From: [email protected] (John R Levine)
Subject: Re: What is Transpac?
Organization: I.E.C.C.


> Can anyone tell me what Transpac is? A public network in France
> perhaps?  Thanks.

It's the French X.25 network.  Dialup access is available nationally
via special phone numbers.  Here is some somewhat obsolete information
courtesy of MCI Mail:

Contact:
         Mr. J.M. Chevalier - Tel: (33-1) 47 62 79 61
         Direction des Telecomications des Reseaux Exterieurs
         INTELCOMFRANCE
         Tour Franklin
         92081 Paris La Defense Cedex 11, France
         Telex: (842) 610586  A/B: CPTI 610586F
                   or 610329  A/B: CPTI 610329F

Prices:
         All charges in French Francs (FFr)

         Initial Fee:                       160    FFr/NUI
         Monthly Fee:                        80    FFr/month
         Connect Time Charge:                 0.70 FFr/minute at  300 bps
                                              0.90 FFr/minute at 1200 bps
                                              1.00 FFr/minute at 2400 bps
         Volume Charge:                      38    FFr/kilosegment

         A 18.6% VAT should be added to the above charges.

Dialup (once you have an account):
         All cities in France may access TRANSPAC with the national
         numbers given below.

         300 bps access:                     36 01
         1200 bps access:                    36 00
         1200/75 bps access (incl. Minitel): 36 13
                                             36 21 (ASCII mode)
         300/1200/2400 bps MNP error-corr.:  36 06 24 24

DOMPAC and TOMPAC provide similar service at slightly higher prices in
the overseas parts of France.


Regards,

John Levine, [email protected], {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl

------------------------------

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: What is Transpac?
Reply-To: [email protected]
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 14:26:06 GMT


In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Philip
Green) writes:

> Can anyone tell me what Transpac is? A public network in France
> perhaps?  Thanks.

You win the teddy bear! Transpac is the French Public Packet-switched
Data Network operating according to Recommendation X.25. Transpac,
DATApac (Canada), Telenet (USA), and the U.K. network (forgotten the
name) were the first national packet-switched networks. Main reason
that I remember is because I was on the team that did DATApac.


Bob Blackshaw

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Fazal Majid)
Subject: Re: What is Transpac?
Date: 14 Nov 1993 00:06:33 GMT
Organization: Telecom Paris - France


Philip Green ([email protected]) wrote:

> Can anyone tell me what Transpac is? A public network in France
> perhaps?  Thanks.

Transpac (now officially called France Telecom Transpac) is a French
public X.25 network operated by France Telecom, the national carrier,
recently spun off from the PTT administration.

Among other things, "Minitel" videotext services are carried by Transpac.


Disclaimer: I work for France Telecom, but not in the Transpac division

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Paul J. Bell)
Subject: Re: Skokie, IL, and Telephone History
Reply-To: [email protected]
Organization: The 23K Group, Inc.
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 02:09:06 GMT


In article <[email protected]>, TELECOM Moderator noted:

> [Moderator's Note: Actually, I have but three lines: one for voice,
> one for data and one for fax. I'll make do somehow. The fax is now
> on a full time dedicated line and available to anyone who wants to
> use it:  708-329-0572. The Skokie area was also the home of Teletype
> Corporation as some old-timers may recall. I am just just hoping
> very desparately that things will work out financially for me and
> the family.  :(   PAT]

When Western Electric's Teletype Corp. was located in Skokie, the
plant (on Touhy Ave.) was the largest open area manufacturing facility
in the world. At it's peak, well into the '70, they received more
orders for Teletype machines in a month than they could build in a
year.  It was a very interesting place to visit.  I left Chicago in
the early sixties and have no idea what happened to the area. Does
anyone know the fate of the Teletype complex ?


Cheers,

Paul

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (David A. Kaye)
Subject: Re: Skokie, IL, and Telephone History
Date: 14 Nov 1993 21:58:28 -0800
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access  (415) 705-6060  [login: guest]


Dave Levenson ([email protected]) wrote:

> It was reported in that year that the largest number of telephones per
> capita (86 per 100 population) anywhere in the world was in the
> District of Columbia, USA.  The second largest value of this number (I
> think the number was around 70 or so) was in Skokie, Illinois.

I don't know if it's still true or not, but the city of San Ramon (25
miles east of SF) had 102 phones per 100 population.  This fact used
to be in the back of the Pacific Bell yellow pages for that area,
which I think is the Central Contra Costa book.  I would think there
might be an explanation here, but I don't know what it is.  This was
before cellular, and the community doesn't seem to have that much more
business than any other community.

------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Bill Pfeiffer)
Subject: Re: Minneapolis is no Picnic Either (vs Chicago)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 03:54:09 CST


> [Moderator's Note: I'm sorry to hear this grim news. I hope for your
> sake you did not violate any of the civil rights of the burglar; the

[...]

> The people filed bankruptcy at that point, but the court ruled
> the judgment could not be dismissed in bankruptcy, so I guess they
> will be working a long time to pay off this guy. Let that be a lesson
> to you. Keep your homes neat, clean and free of dangers. If someone
> breaks in while you are gone (or some have the nerve to do it while
> you are there!), you don't want them to injure themselves.   PAT]

Nice piece of urban folklore, Pat.  But we all know that it is
hogwash.  You can shoot a burglar in your home (like the 90 year old
woman just did on the south side when a 15 year-old broke in and
wheeled her around in her wheelchair demanding that she point out
valuables).  She shot him after asking him to leave several times.
She has not been, and will not be, charged.

If someone invades your home (unlike your business) all bets are off.
Although I have heard these tales too, they are not true.  You CAN be
sued, or even arrested, if you set up a booby-trap to either fire a
weapon or do other bodily harm, via an automatic system (like pointing
a shotgun at a doorway, triggered by a solinoid, connected to a door
switch).

But rest-assured, you may blow someone away without an eyeblink if
they are inside your home uninvited.


    William Pfeiffer - Moderator/Editor
rec.radio.broadcasting - Airwaves Radio Journal
             - Internet email -
Article Submission: [email protected]
Subscription Desk:  [email protected]


[Moderator's Note: I think you are in error. It is not quite that cut
and dry. Yes, you have some rights inside your home you do not have
outside your home, but I'm afraid shooting someone in your home would
at least cause a few eyes to blink. I suspect you would get a lot of
hassles from the police over it, etc.   PAT]

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End of TELECOM Digest V13 #761
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