Aucbvax.6015
fa.space
utcsrgv!utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!space
Mon Feb 1 03:38:04 1982
SPACE Digest V2 #94
>From OTA@S1-A Mon Feb 1 03:31:11 1982
SPACE Digest Volume 2 : Issue 94
Today's Topics:
Tech vs Humanist
duplication of articles
Appropriate Quote...
Reply to Rick at watmath
Humanism vs Technology
poking in here
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Date: Sun Jan 31 06:00:51 1982
To: Space@MIT-MC
From: ucbvax!decvax!watmath!Rick@Berkeley
Subject: Tech vs Humanist
Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated.
Frankly, I really didn't mean to start all of this...
My apologies to all on net.space, and my absolute last word on the
subject.
First, it should be pointed out that no one ever claimed that ignorance
of the humanities was bliss, or at least not harmful. It was claimed that
no major moral or social problems have ever been solved by that rather
unfortunate group that describe themselves as `social engineers'. I'm
still waiting for a counter example.
The point that was made was that typically, merchants and technologists
solved the problems because *they saw a social need*. The typical action of
the humanist to the problem was either to ignore it, or to justify it (read
Aristotle on the subject of slavery, for instance).
There are some prominent thinkers in the humanities whose works
deserve attention. Friedman is an excellent example. So is Easton.
Toynbee and Hobbes are first-rate reading, and a must for anyone who
wishes to understand history.
However ( again with the notable exception of Milton Friedman ) the
current rather sad collection of scholars that dominate the thinking of the
humanities can provide us with no solutions to our current problems. Rather
than attempting to increase human freedom, the current intellectual fashion
is to curtail it. Rather than attempting to expand and increase human wealth,
the current fashion is the age of limits. And rather than attempting to
master the basics of the technologies that have taken us from an impoverished,
rural culture to the mightiest, wealthiest and most knowledgeable society this
planet has ever seen, there is a popular intellectual fashion to argue that
technological solutions to technological problems should not be pursued,
because *that would create a privileged class on whom the ignorant would
be independent*. There are few sentiments that are more ominous than this
war cry of the new barbarians.
Sorry I can't be cheerier about these characters, but most of us
have seen far too much of the Naders, the Ehrlichs, the Fondas and the
Trudeaus to have many illusions about humanists in the 1980s.
Rick.
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Date: Sun Jan 31 14:38:43 1982
To: Space@MIT-MC
From: ucbvax!decvax!duke!cjp@Berkeley
Subject: duplication of articles
Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated.
1
2
3
4
5
6 (ARPAVAX blank lines: how many get lost?)
I'm getting real tired of reading the same articles in fa.space
as I read yesterday in net.space. Is there any way to avoid
this? For example, could the fa.space moderator digestify
separately the stuff from UNIXland and distribute it only to
ARPA sites?
Charles J. Poirier (duke!cjp)
------------------------------
Date: 31 Jan 1982 1538-PST
Sender: BILLW at SRI-KL
Subject: Appropriate Quote...
From: William "Chops" Westfield <BILLW@SRI-KL>
To: Space-Enthusiasts at MIT-MC
Message-ID: <[SRI-KL]31-JAN-82 15:38:37.BILLW>
In-Reply-To: Your message of 31 Jan 1982 0302-PST
"There are two kinds of fools:
One says 'This is old, and therefore good',
And the other says 'This is new, and therefore better'"
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Date: Sun Jan 31 17:24:45 1982
To: Space at MIT-MC
From: ucbvax!ihnss!vax135!harpo!utah-cs!lepreau at Berkeley
Subject: Reply to Rick at watmath
Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated.
If you're going to subject us to this hero-worship of Friedman and company
for God's sakes at least spare us the arrogance of phrases like "most of us"
when describing your own dislike of the Naders and Ehrlichs and your
idolatry of the likes of old Milt.
------------------------------
From: RWK@MIT-AI
Date: 02/01/82 02:45:12
Subject: Humanism vs Technology
RWK@MIT-AI 02/01/82 02:45:12 Re: Humanism vs Technology
To: POURNE at MIT-AI
CC: SPACE at MIT-AI
As I see it, Humanism is not just concerned with Art, but with
such important questions as whether to burn all the technology.
Of course, there is an obvious answer, and there are stupid
humanists, just as there are Technologists who think they
wouldn't mind living in a post nuclear era as long as we
teach the Ruskies a lesson. But for the most part, there
are no Technologists, merely clever Humanists! (See what you
can do with words!)
BTW, ever notice that there doesn't seem to be a word like
Technologism?
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Date: Mon Feb 1 00:14:08 1982
To: Space at MIT-MC
From: ucbvax!decvax!yale-com!harley at Berkeley
Subject: poking in here
Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated.
first i note that talking of a dualism of technologists & humanists is
like giving emphasis to the itsy-bitsy tailends of a bellcurve.
then i wonder how the connection between humanism & art was made, so i
really wonder whether we have a consensus definition of humanism, or
just a meaningless word around which to rotate.
next, i consider trying to label the reagan government either
technologist or humanist ... & give up, but not without a fight.
then, fondling the notion that technologists are more "socially
valuable" than humanists, i try to reconcile the war machine.
and i see the technologists claiming that their work trickles down into
the wanting parts of society ...
... but will no one agree that humanities trickle down even less
directly, but more evenly & (i dare ask) more positively?
(think about that; apply trickledown theory across the board & see what
it amounts to, beyond reaganism. what tricklesdown do you like best?)
and finally i realize that, technologist or humanist, most of you
are proud of your opinions but have given them little thought.
you should be ashamed; as elitists, you should be committed to excellence.
the last place i'd want to find the people doing this talking
would be in a position of power.
- steve harley (yale-comix!harley)
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End of SPACE Digest
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