Aucbvax.1390
fa.sf-lovers
utzoo!duke!decvax!ucbvax!JPM@MIT-AI
Fri May 22 06:04:10 1981
SF-LOVERS Digest V3 #128
SF-LOVERS AM Digest Friday, 22 May 1981 Volume 3 : Issue 128
Today's Topics:
SF Books - "There Will Come Soft Rains",
SF Movies - Jason and the Argonauts & Outland,
SF Topics - Price of Books & Anti-Sugar &
Children's stories (Freddie the Pig and Tom Swift) &
Children's TV (Felix the Cat and 8th Man and Japanese animation)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 22 May 81 1:21-PDT
From: mclure at Sri-Unix
Subject: quick Delphi poll
What do you think will be the price of an "average"
American paperback book 20 years from now in 2001?
Currently the average seems to be about $2 to $3.
I'll collect the responses and send the result back to SF-Lovers.
Replies to mclure@sri-unix. [ NOT to SF-LOVERS directly. -- Jim ]
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1981 16:05 PDT
From: Drysdale at PARC-MAXC
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest V3 #127
The story about the death of a house with robot mice is "There Will
Come Soft Rains" from \Martian Chronicles/ by Bradbury.
Also, as I remember the Asimov robot series (\I Robot/?) introduces
robot birds and other creatures to make people feel comfortable about
being around robots, but none are major characters.
Scot
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1981 13:10:03-PDT
From: CSVAX.upstill at Berkeley
Subject: sf-lovers--emergency entry
Sorry for not sending this in sooner, but fantasy film freaks should
know about Ray Harryhausen's appearance on the Berkeley campus this
Saturday (the 23rd), along with a showing of Jason and the Argonauts.
It's being done as part of a tribute by the Pacific Film Archive, a
worthy cause in itself, and costs $3. Wheeler Auditorium at 8 PM.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: 21-May-81 11:02:49 PDT (Thursday)
From: Hamilton.ES at PARC-MAXC
Subject: Another review of OUTLAND
Definitely \not/ SF. An attempt at a sort of surrealist Western (one
might make a very stretched analogy to Eastwood's "The Gauntlet").
Unfortunately, the surreal often comes dangerously close to the camp.
Sean Connery, in a Clint Eastwood/ Gary Cooper role, is the befuddled
Marshall, and Peter Boyle is his rather wooden foe.
The dialog is awful, and the plot not much better. And don't bother
to ask what a titanium mine is doing on Io, whose surface consists
largely of molten sulphur volcanoes. "Designer" spacesuits light up
each character's face like a Times Square marquee. The best aspect of
the film is an interesting score from Jerry Goldsmith.
Is anyone else as sick and tired as I am of CRT's that run at 110 bps,
and even \sound/ like Teletypes?
--Bruce
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1981 19:57 PDT
From: Newman.ES at PARC-MAXC
Subject: OUTLAND
It's unfair to accuse OUTLAND of being sexist and retrogressive just
because the society it portrays is sexist. By this line of argument,
"1984" is a fascist book because it portrays a totalitarian society,
and "All Quiet on the Western Front" is a war-mongering movie because
it shows the atrocities of World War I.
Nonsense. Clearly it's possible for an artist to use the depiction of
evil as a statement against that evil.
I found OUTLAND's portrayal of "future sociology" on the frontiers of
space quite believable: more believable, in fact, that the utopian
scenarios put forth by our current crop of space-colony advocates. I
don't like the society shown there any more than you do, but current
events in the U.S. demonstrate that technological advances need not go
hand-in-hand with social progress.
/Ron
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1981 2316-EDT
From: Dave Touretzky at CMU-10A
Subject: Re: OUTLAND
We have made *significant* social progress towards eliminating sexism,
although it's true that we have a long way to go before the problem is
solved. To ignore this progress, and depict a distant future in which
people are as deeply welded into nonproductive sexual stereotypes as
they were ten years ago, is to deny the existence, and even the
validity, of movements that are trying to bring about the necessary
changes. Be realistic: do you really think the makers of Outland
wanted to make a pessimistic statement about how "technological
advances need not go hand-in-hand with social progress"? I don't
think they're capable of such deep thought; certainly they haven't
demonstrated it anywhere else in the movie.
Outland presents the sociological picture it does because that picture
contains the timeworn macho, violent, sexist elements that Hollywood
thinks are necessary ingredients for a good western. Nowhere in the
movie does anyone make the statement that sexism in the Outland
society is a bad thing. They don't even appear aware that it is there
at all! Outlands makes no statements whatsoever. It's a cheap,
trashy shoot-em-up movie with wooden characters and no conscience. To
compare it to such great works as 1984 is ludicrous.
------------------------------
Date: Thursday, 21 May 1981 17:43-PDT
Subject: Re: Outland and sexual stereotypes
From: mike at RAND-UNIX
Dave Touretzky finds Outland implicit predictions offensive because,
among other things, there are hookers on a mostly male planet.
Whether or not prostitution is sexist or offensive, as a prediction it
is probably as safe as any prediction could be. Prostitution is as
old as history. (Or, at least, Western history. I know very little
really about the East). For whatever reason it exists, I do not see
it going away today or tomorrow, unless human nature changes. And it
is a premise of the movie that human nature is very recognizable in
the future.
Predicting prostitution in the future is as safe as predicting
violence in the future.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1981 15:42:17-EDT
From: cjh at CCA-UNIX (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: Outland technicalities
There have been a number of questionable remarks about the
technology shown in OUTLANDS. I'd like to put in my two cents worth:
1. Of \\course// a shotgun will work in vacuum, just like the
shuttle boosters work in vacuum (or near enough to it by the time they
burn out). It's true that explosion is extremely fast combustion; in
fact, it's so fast that most explosives are mostly (by weight)
oxidizer to provide to provide the oxygen for the fuel to burn in
(e.g., gunpowder (per Piper's LORD KALVAN OF OTHERWHEN) is 75% KNO3
(oxidizer), 15% C (fuel), 10% S (catalyst); the shuttle booster fuel
is 70% NH4ClO4).
[ A series of messages from ihnss!karn at BERKELEY, icl.redford at
SU-SCORE, and Obrien at RAND-UNIX also touched upon this point.
Thanks are due to each and everyone of them. -- Jim ]
2. Shotguns versus tranquilizers--trank darts are usually designed
with short points to minimize damage to internal organs. Through any
sort of space suit this would be a problem, as would strength (I'm
told that the darts are pretty fragile). Finally, trank darts are
expensive, as are the rifles to shoot them, and who ever heard of a
rough frontier spending money to be gentle? (Note with reference to
point 1 that trank darts may also rely more on aerodynamic
stabilization than bullets, which are ballistically stabilized).
3. Very slow transmission on CRT's is endemic to Hollywood (as are
CRT's with large screens but short lines); this is partly a camera
problem and partly acknowledgment of the fact that lots of moviegoers
have to move their lips when they read. 110 baud is a reasonable
speech rate for the average person, while 300 is tongue-twisting and
unintelligible. Clacking? The public electronic mail terminal in my
office clacks (although I think that's partly a key function).
4. I'm familiar with some security systems; most of them choose
controllable videocameras in preference to color. Both control and
color are getting cheaper, but control was cheaper to begin with.
(Again, iit can be a question of cost--how much use would color be,
given what people were wearing/would wear on a frontier?).
Not that I'm defending the film; I expect to snicker when I see it.
But I like to pick at reasonable nits.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1981 16:07-EDT
From: "Kenneth W. Haase, Jr." <KWH AT MIT-AI>
A bicycle ride down memory lane! I remember RODOF's books fondly.
Freddie the Pig was an old standard, along with the Mad Scientists
Club.... I too tried building some of the things in the Mad
Scientists Club, but my technical competence was not really up to it.
Freddie the Pig was about an intelligent barnyard, and the
intellectual of the place, a pig named Fredrick was a detective, a
pilot, and half a dozen other things. Great stuff!
Alvin Fernald is an old favorite too - Disney made the Alvin Fernald
books into a series of tv-movies which were pretty good
(considering....) Anybody remember them?
Ken Haase
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1981 08:22-EDT
From: Brian P. Lloyd <LLOYD AT MIT-AI>
Subject: Nostalgia (Tom Swift and Felix the Cat)
Ah yes...The good old days. Such greats as Tom Swift and Felix the
Cat. When I was twelve I decided to amass the entire Tom Swift Jr.
collection and was successful (TSj by Victor Appleton III). You
remember such greats as Tom Swift Jr and his...
...Flying Lab - Atomic powered Aircraft
...Atomic Jetmarine - Atomic powered two-man Sub
...Atomic Earth Blaster - mining equipment
...Outpost in Space - Space Manufacturing of efficient solar
battery
...Electronic Retroscope - "Restores" old cave writing et al
...Triphibian Atomicar
...Trip to the Moon - Repalatron (sic) powered Spacecraft
I could go on and on as I collected 36 of these things. They did turn
me on to SF however (hooked at only nine years old [Damn! that was
almost 20 years ago]).
For you Felix the Cat lovers:
Felix the Cat
The wonderful, wonderful Cat
When ever he gets in a fix
he reaches into his bag of tricks
Felix the Cat
The wonderful, wonderful Cat
You'll laugh so hard your sides will ache
Your heart will go pitter-pat
Watching Felix the wonderful Cat.
Righteeeeooooo!!!
Brian Lloyd
[ Another message from duke!unc!smb at BERKELEY also provided the
theme song for FELIX THE CAT. -- Jim ]
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1981 06:02:01-PDT
From: decvax!duke!unc!tyg at Berkeley
Subject: 8th Man
As i recall, 8th Man also had recharging problems. His way of getting
a recharge was to suck on energy cylinders or some such which looked
like cigarettes. A common problem was using these in no smoking
areas. Also, didn't he work as a P.I.? With a secretary.
Also, i remember Rocket Robin Hood. While ok it was never one of my
favorites since even at age 8 i saw a basic inconsistency in using bow
and arrows against advanced technology.
Nostalgically tom galloway
------------------------------
Date: 21 MAY 1981 1638-PDT
From: PEDERSEN at USC-ECL
Subject: Japanese Animation (Censorship)
In response to some questions re Japanese Animation, particularly
"censorship":
First, understand the basic difference between
animation in this country and overseas (particularly Japan). In
Japan (and Europe), animation is considered a respectable art form
and the "content" of the material determines its audience. Some
very adult cartoon series (violence, sex, etc) are telecast in
Japan. One is the James Bond-style "Lupin" series, another is
the kid series "Devil Man" which has people dying, heads chopped
off and some pretty horrible monsters.
In this country we tend to consider anything animated as "kid stuff".
This is beginning to change somewhat ("Fritz the Cat", "Lord of the
Rings", "Watership Down", etc) but very, very slowly.
Japan (which, touch of irony, is about the safest country in the
world - I would not be afraid to walk through downtown Tokyo after
midnight, which I hesitate to do the same in Los Angeles)
puts a lot of violence in all their cartoons - and some not-too-
subtle bits of sex - all of which must be eliminated for fear of
harming American children.
Japanese cartoon series also tend to be syndicated in the early
morning or late afternoon hours, when small children are supposed
to be the prime audience. The series were originally intended for
much older audiences and thus the American censors and executives-
in-charge feel that not only violence and sex must be eliminated,
most of the story also has to go. The Japanese try to tell stories
in their cartoons, where we have been conditioned to changing the
scene every half minute, no matter what else is going on. (Try to
outline a few American tv episodics - you'll find lots of scene
changes, very little continuity in the story.)
What you see in the way of Japanese cartoons (excepting the early
shows of the '50's and '60's when we hadn't learned the
fine art of censorship) bares very little
relationship to the originals. Which is too bad, since so
much of their work (particularly in science fiction) is very good
and deserves to be seen uncut.
Ted Pedersen<PEDERSEN@USC-ECL>
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1981 1509-PDT
From: Dolata at SUMEX-AIM
Subject: Sugars, whisk(e)y and reversals
There are two different approaches to 'fat free' sugars now under
examination; wrong isomers, and plastic bound. The wrong isomer
approach is the simplest, and is exactly as described so far, the
wrong sugar is indigestible to the body (sort of like cellulose) and
so goes right out with the urine. The second approach actually
chemically binds sugar 'residues' to plastic backbones in a fashion
remaniscient to sugars on a DNA backbone. The sugars are free to bind
with the taste receptors, but cannot pass membranes and slide right
through the GI tract, thus they cannot be metabolized, and provide no
energy. It is expected that several years of testing will be
necessary before acceptance of this product will be forthcoming.
However, this cannot have anything to do with the taste of 'reversed'
whisk(e)y, since sugars do not distill. The main flavorings in
Uesgebaugh are various low molecular weight aldehydes (bad guys)
ketones, esters, acids, and other alcohols. Complete analysis of the
composition of these side products is not generally released
(proprietary info) but those analysis I have seen indicate that of
these, less than 2% (which themselves comprise only 1-3%) are
optically active, i.e. can be changed by 'reversal'.
Of course, all bets are off if the hero was using cheap colored pot
whisk(e)y. Nobody knows what they put in that junk...
Dolata@sumex-aim
------------------------------
End of SF-LOVERS Digest
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