The F I D O N E W S Volume 18, Number 52 24 Dec 2001
+--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| |The newsletter of the | | Fido, Fidonet and dog-with-diskette are |
| | FidoNet community. | | US Registered Trademarks of Tom Jennings|
| | | | San Francisco, California, USA |
| | ____________| | |
| | / __ | Crash Netmail Articles To: |
| | / / \ | Editor@1:1/23 (1-972-562-8064) |
| | WOOF! ( /|oo \ | Frank Vest@1:124/6308 |
| \_______\(_| /_) | or E-Mail (attach) To: |
| _ @/_ \ _ |
[email protected] |
| | | \ \\ | |
| | (*) | \ ))| Editor: Frank Vest |
| |__U__| / \// | Deputy-Editor: Lawrence Garvin |
| ______ _//|| _\ / | |
| / Fido \ (_/(_|(____/ | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| (________) (jm) | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Copyright 2001 by Fidonews Editor for Fidonews Globally.
Table of Contents
1. [ FOOD FOR THOUGHT ] ..................................... 1
2. [ INSIDE ] ............................................... 2
The Fidonews at a Glance ................................. 2
3. [ GENERAL ARTICLES ] ..................................... 3
Concerned Voices ......................................... 3
A silly & unrealistic look at geographical exemptions .... 4
The Rougue Region ........................................ 6
Introduction to Following the Z1C ........................ 9
4. [ EDITORIAL ] ............................................ 13
It's an Anarchy Killing? ................................. 13
5. [ FIDONET WEB PAGE REVIEWS ] ............................. 17
Region 15 Web page ....................................... 17
Region 53 Web page ....................................... 17
6. [ OL'WDB'S COLUMN - WARREN BONNER ] ...................... 19
"'Tis THE SEASON..." ..................................... 19
7. [ FIDONET NOTICES ] ...................................... 20
New User Flags ........................................... 20
8. [ HUMOR IN A FIDO VEIN ] ................................. 21
The Fidonet Political Data Base .......................... 21
The Zone 1 Inquisition Part 1 ............................ 22
9. [ COMIX IN ASCII ] ....................................... 26
Merry Christmas to those that observe it ................. 26
10. [ CLEAN HUMOR & JOKES ] ................................. 27
TRUISMS .................................................. 27
11. [ SPECIAL INTEREST ] .................................... 29
Nodelist Stats ........................................... 29
12. [ TODD COCHRANE'S FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING ] ............ 31
Fidonet Software List .................................... 31
13. [ JOE JARED'S FIDONET BY INTERNET ] ..................... 35
Fidonet-related sites .................................... 35
14. [ FIDONEWS INFORMATION ] ................................ 41
How to Submit an Article ................................. 41
Credits, Legal Infomation, Availability .................. 42
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 1 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ FOOD FOR THOUGHT ]
=================================================================
"A hangover is the wrath of grapes."
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FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 2 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ INSIDE ]
=================================================================
The Fidonews at a Glance
Chris Cranford Joins us in the "General Articles" with "Concerned
Voices" which addresses the R12 Independent listing of Dale Ross and
the "RVIA" flags.
Frank Vest give us "A silly & unrealistic look at geographical
exemptions.. or not?"
Also joining us is Philip Lozier with "The Rougue Region", his view
on Region 12, Policy 4 and more.
Dale Ross drops by to give us a look at some Seen-By stuffing in his
article "Introduction to Following the Z1C".
The editorial this week?? "It's an Anarchy Killing". You decide. :-)
In the "Fidonet Web Page Reviews", we have the Region 15 and the
Region 53 sites. Check both of these out.
Warren Bonner give us his "Tis the Season" wish to all of us in
Fidonet.
In the "Fidonet Notices" section, you will find an announcement of
some new Nodelist flags.
In the "Humor in a Fido Vein", Frank Vest gives us a look at "*The
Fidonet Political Data Base", while Dale Ross tries his hand at some
humor titled "The Zone 1 Inquisition Part 1", based on a Monty Python
skit.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 3 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ GENERAL ARTICLES ]
=================================================================
Concerned Voices
Chris Cranford 1:379/0 Charlotte Area Net
There have been a series of events that have transpired in Zone 1 over
the last few weeks that, to say the least, has caused a rising concern
with sysops across multiple regions.
A lot of debate was centered around the R12IN listing that was given
to Dale Ross. This raised concerns with the Z1C and the R18C. Public
statements were made by both the Z1C and the R18C that make me believe
they would be willing to alter the submitted segments of those *Cs in
order to satisfy their interpretation of the FidoNet policy document
P4.
According to the Z1C, the reasons presented for the R12IN listing did
not satisfy her biased requirements in order for Dale to maintain this
listing. Therefore, in the last distributed Zone 1 nodelist, this
R12IN listing was removed by the Z1C.
Furthermore, the R18C made public statements that Dale would no longer
be dual listed and questioned Dale on whether he'd be willing to
relinquish his Net379 node number in order to maintain his R12IN
status. Therefore, not only do I see a Z1C manipulating submitted
nodelist entries; I also see a RC willing to do the same.
Now, as if this wasn't enough fuel to add to the fire, Janis publicly
announces that she will no longer be accepting segments that contain
the MRVIA and RVIA flag-sets. Based on immediate uprising of her
decision, she decided to allow an additional week for *Cs to make
whatever necessary segment changes to prevent any risk in nodelist
processing.
Based on non-public conversations with the R18C, I have chosen to
comply with his demands in order to not put other R18NCs segments in
jeopardy of not being processed.
But what I fail to understand is why these user flags must be removed
from the nodelist? What harm are they causing? And if that wasn't
enough, should I had left them in, the R18C would have passed my
segment with an A+ as usual onto Janis'. The only problem would be if
she failed the regional segment....
Over all these political issues, the harm that is being inflicted on
FidoNet is far greater than the issues that I've listed above. These
are just a few tips on that sharp iceberg that is harboring its way
through Zone 1.
I ask, when is it going to stop? People continue to state that
FidoNet is a hobby. If FidoNet is a hobby, how can a hobby be
enjoyful and fun when *Cs are continuously shoving P4 into the eyes of
those who even some what oppose or interpret that document in a
different fashion.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 4 24 Dec 2001
As Zone 1 continues to shrink, I ask ... What does the Z1C or the RCs
plan to do in order to avoid the inevitable? Those who have devised
easy methods to attract sysops into Zone 1 are being condemned because
they're bringing value back into FidoNet ... Why? Is it jealously? It
is certainly possible. Take a look at www.region18.info ...
"If you can't beat them, why not join them" ... right Ross?
My point is, enuff is quite simply enuff. I'd like to see some
positive actions from the R18C and the Z1C in order to improve FidoNet
instead of driving it into the ground.
Happy Holidays!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A silly & unrealistic look at geographical exemptions.. or not?
By Frank Vest
1:124/6308
There was a Node in a Net in a Region in a Zone. The Node number was
his very own.
Good grief! That sounds like something Dr. Seuss would write. :-))
Anyway;
The Node wanted, for some reason, a Node number in another Region in
the Zone while keeping the Node number in the current Region.
While this would not be a problem to do, a simple matter of the RC
adding the Node to the Nodelist, it is against Policy to have the same
Person in two different geographical Regions, or Zones or Nets for
that matter. At least on a permanent basis.
Geography as put forth in Fidonet Policy was the problem. Let's look
at geography. What is it?
In relation to the dictionary, it is "The science that describes the
surface of the Earth." It is also "The natural aspect, features, etc.,
of a place or area."
In Fidonet, a Zone, Region or Net is/could be the natural aspect or
feature of Fidonet. Maybe this is unrealistic, but humor me. :-)
It is said that an Internet address is a location and has nothing to
do with geography. A Fidonet address, then, should have nothing to do
with geography. In reality, an Internet address is more than an
address. It is a "phone number" of sorts. One can "dial" an Internet
address and connect to the machine at that address. To "dial" a
Fidonet address will connect you to nothing.... well, it might connect
you to something, but what? Probably not what or who you wanted. :-))
The Fidonet address is a location. It is geographical in the sense
that it gives a location of where that node resides within that land
of Fidonet. The Internet address does this as well for the Internet.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 5 24 Dec 2001
The Fidonet address, however, can not be dialed with success unless it
is translated via some means to a number that can be used to connect.
That is what the Nodelist does. Without the Nodelist to translate,
xx:yyyy/zzzz means little as far as "dialing" or making a connection
goes. On the other hand, 192.168.0.1 is a valid connection number.
Yes, I know that 192.168.0.1 is not used as an address on the
Internet. It's just an example, ok.
What do we have so far?
Internet address = connectivity
Fidonet address + Nodelist = connectivity
What's the problem? Why can't a Fidonet Node have more than one
address? The Internet allows this, right?
This, in reality, would not be such a problem if it were only one
Node. It would be little or no problem if the Node wanted to be
removed from the current Net in that Region and moved to another
Region as a Regional Independent or to another Net. As it happened,
the Node wanted a Node number in one Region's Net while having an
Regional Independent number in another Region.
The question is, `why not allow this?' After all, geography is not
an issue as far as connection is concerned in today's Internet world.
An Internet address has no value in geography, why should a Fidonet
address?
Technically, I see no problem with this. Let's throw some
(non)reality in this formula that has been so long in building.
Reality, or non-reality, can really mess up a world. :)
The reality is that in the Internet world, one is allowed as many
addresses as desired if one is willing to pay for them. Technically,
there is no reason not to allow this.
Pay and desire are key here.
The reality is that in Fidonet, one should be allowed to have as many
addresses as desired. Technically, with the Nodelist to translate
Fidonet addresses into "dialable numbers", there is no reason not to.
They don't even have to be paid for.
Pay and desire again are key here.
Let's add one more little thing to this. Human nature. If you removed
"pay" as a factor, most people would ask the Internet for as many
addresses as they could dream up. "Pay" protects the Internet from
this to some degree. Yes, I know that there are other factors. Let's
deal with what we have here, shall we?
Ok. Let's do a little unrealistic and silly math.
One Sysop wants a Node number in each Net, Region and Zone in
Fidonet. Why not?? There's no technical reason not to... Well, let's
see how that adds up;
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 6 24 Dec 2001
There are 6 Zones, 70 Regions and hundreds of Nets. Let's use a small
number for the Nets of, say, 300 minus 1 for the Node asking for the
numbers.
1 Sysop x 6 zones = 6 Node numbers
1 Sysop x 70 Regions = 70 Node Numbers
1 Sysop x 300 Nets - 1 = 299 Node Numbers
So; 6 + 70 + 299 = 375 Nodes in the Nodelist plus what is currently
there.
That's not too bad, right??
Let's go one more step.
300 Nets = an average of, say, 10 Nodes per net.
300 x 10 = 3000 Nodes
I'll let you do the formula here. The grand total would be around
828000 Nodes numbers.
Now, add to this formula that each Node could start his/her own Net
up to the limit that Fidonet addressing allows. Better yet, figure the
maximum number of addresses available in the "xx:yyyy/zzzz" addressing
of Fidonet. Oh yes.. don't forget the .9999 for Point addresses. I
don't even want to try that math. :-)
Oh... alright... Somewhere around 9,898,020,099 assuming 99 Zones
with 9999 Nets and 9999 Nodes and 0 Points, If I haven't missed in the
math. If I have, well... that's life.
Ok... You're going to argue that "common sense" would win out, Sysops
voting on allowing addresses would prevent this, we would never reach
this many Node numbers, the *Cs would prevent it and other things.
Well... Common sense in many cases isn't common, the *C are claimed
to be only "Clerks" under the Nodes and, adding apathy in to the
formula, if someone wanted to add a Net or Region with his/her friends
in it and a vote was taken, most likely, the only voters would be the
person and his/her friends. Guaranteed addition of Net or Region...
maybe both or more... and isn't the reason for having an address pool
in the Internet because the Internet is running out of addresses?
Oh heck! Let's do it! I want to see a Pentium bog down processing a
20 gig Nodelist. :-))
Wanna turn your Cray into a XT? Join Fidonet. :-)))
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Rougue Region
Philip Lozier 1:267/169
As I watch the debates go on concerning the removal of the RC12, I
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 7 24 Dec 2001
can't help but be amazed at the reactions to this by many, and the
complete blindness of those who fail to see the simplicity of the
issue.
What I see from the folks who are against this removal are a bunch of
personal opinions not related to policy at all. There is no place for
those "opinions" when viewing an action of this nature, as it is
clearly defined within the policy itself.
Many have said that policy needs to be modified, and I would agree
with this, however, policy should not be changed to the drastic degree
that many would like IMO. I have many views on this, but it is a whole
different issue.
Let me, before I go any further, state that I am not opposed to the
allowance of out of net, or region, listings if there is a good
technical reason for it, and if proper procedure is followed in having
the listing agreed to by all involved, and approval is made by the ZC.
This is absolutely NOT the case here.
R12 has a long history of defying Policy4 and trying to do whatever it
damn well pleases. Recently, as is evident by the issue at hand, they
have simply taken one step to far, and got their toes stepped on for
it... It was felt that it would be just fine and dandy to go ahead
and list another node that was listed elsewhere without consulting
anybody at all. The ZC got wind of this, and cried foul, and told R12
that they could not do this any longer. From what I understand, the
response of the RC12 was to mark the node on hold (which still in no
way solved an illegitimate listing), send a response to the ZC of the
effect that R12 has their own interpretation of P4, and to immediately
list EVEN MORE nodes in a similar fashion.
To top it off even further, the RC12, to my understanding, further
issued a defiant public statement in which the offer was made to list
ANY node, from anywhere, within R12, wether they were listed elsewhere
or not.
How can an RC take actions like these, and NOT expect to be removed?
The question has been issued as to if the ZC had a right to do this...
YUP. Policy supports it. ANY RC is "responsible" to the ZC:
<policy>
1.2.8 Top-down Organization. Checks and Balances.
For example, a Regional Coordinator is responsible to the Zone
Coordinator for anything that happens in the region. From the point
of view of the Zone Coordinator, the Regional Coordinator is
completely responsible for the smooth operation of the region.
</policy>
The above clearly states that the RC is answerable to the ZC. For
those who claim otherwise, they probably think the sky is red, and
need a new prescription for their eyeglasses as well.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 8 24 Dec 2001
Many say the geographical clauses need to be changed... why? If a
node, be it ION or not, lives in say Chicago, if the net in Chicago is
able to provide them a proper feed, then what good reason would they
have to list elsewhere? Just to be different? If there is no local
net, why can't they still lit within their "proper" region. It makes
no sense.
The fact is that this is a geographical issue, and geography is well
defined in P4, and until changed, stands as is. Without spelling it
all out, we know what it says... wether you like it or not is
irrelevant. The most relevant part here clearly says that network
membership is based on geographical or other purely technical
rationale. It is not based on personal or social factors.
The exemptions portion clearly state that an exemption is NOT a right,
and is not permanent. It further states that in the "exceptional"
case where an exemption is allowed, it MUST be agreed upon between the
ZC and the RC's (note the plural) involved. Again, this is not the
case here.
The RC12 clearly defied these portions of policy as if they had never
existed, and never even consulted the ZC, or any other RC involved. In
doing so, it would appear to me that R12 was acting as a rougue region
that lives outside of policy, and with no consideration for the rest
of FidoNet whatsoever.
This lack of consideration for Fidonet as a whole is a continuous
thing. While some may say "well their attracting new nodes, why
shouldn't they reap the rewards", I would say, that if they are
attracting new nodes, then they are doing what they are supposed to.
They are also supposed to refer these nodes to the proper network or
region that they belong in. If they were truly acting on the best
interest of Fidonet, they would be more than happy and willing to do
it the right way, and help other portions of FidoNet grow, but it
appears that they are only self serving, and that there actions of
node snatching are no more reputable or proper than the actions of
those who would hijack an echo to serve their own purposes.
Getting right down to if the ZC had the right to remove RC12, I submit
my final portion of policy quote:
<policy>
6 Zone Coordinator Procedures
6.1 General
If a Zone Coordinator determines that a Regional Coordinator is not
properly performing the duties outlined in section 5, a replacement
should be found.
The Zone Coordinator is responsible for reviewing and approving any
geographic exemptions as described in section 5.6.
</policy>
Sky still red? Clearly the ZC has the right to remove the RC. Clearly
the RC12 should have consulted the ZC about any geographic exemptions.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 9 24 Dec 2001
Clearly the RC12 defied the ZC publicly, and CLEARLY the RC12, while
capable of doing so, REFUSED to perform her duties as described by
policy, and even more clearly, was fully justified in being removed.
I am pretty confident on my position here, as a vote has been being
taken around here as wether to back or condemn the removal. So far,
though it -may- change, the flow seems towards backing the removal.
Why would it be any other way? If rougues are allowed to run around
FidoNet and do anything they please, and get away with it without any
level of accountability, then only chaos can follow. It will be then
that all levels of even the loosest form of organization will be lost,
and the true demise of FidoNet starts to unfold.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Introduction to Following the Z1C
There are several issues that surround our Current Z1C that I will be
writing about in coming editions of FidoNews as time permits. Some
of my writings will be articles that will attempt to explain problems
from my point of view. There will also be comic relief skits that
have been put together for tension relief. They also represent some
of the events that my articles will cover. Most of the comic relief
skits are based on Monty Python skits and Python type humor. So to
fully understand them you might want to check out the echo MONTE
and ask questions :-). MONTE is an echo for the discussion of the
funniest troupe to ever grace this planet.
Dale Ross
1:379/1
Scene 1: The Z1C and Z1EC Seenby stuffing event
Some of you reading this article are already aware of Seenby-gate.
However, I realize that many sysops do not read the Zone 1 echoes
because of the bad blood they contain. Those sysops get their
information here in FidoNews or from debates that spill over into
the echoes that they are be reading.
The key players:
FidoNet Z1EC: Foxy Ferguson
FidoNet Z1C: Janis Kracht
The Z1EC is the editor and primary distributor of the "Official"
Zone 1 Echomail routing chart, ROUTELST.nnn. At least that is what
the Z1C and Z1EC call it, the "Official" list.
I am not going to go into every detail of every battle that led up to
Seenby-gate. After earlier conflicts between Foxy and several
Tier 1 Hubs from the Z1B over her handling of ROUTELST.nnn, it
was suggested that an alternate routing list might be produced.
Janet Kracht warned John Souvestre against the production of an
alternate routing list. Her statement was perceived as a threat and
she was advised of that fact. She was asked multiple times to clarify
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 10 24 Dec 2001
her statement and she refused to do so. Here is her statement:
+++ MESSAGE HEADER+++
From: JANIS KRACHT
To: JOHN SOUVESTRE
Date: 2/11/2001 11:14 PM
Subject: Open Letter
Echo: Z1_Routing
+++MESSAGE HEADER+++
Quote from Janis:
"And now you are threatening to create another routelist? I'll tell
you what. If you don't drop this problem you have with Foxy and
truly try to work with her, and if you don't stop threatening to
create another routelist, you may find your Z1B left in the dust."
Later she made the following comment:
+++ MESSAGE HEADER+++
From: JANIS KRACHT
To: JOHN SOUVESTRE
Date: 2/12/2001 3:41 PM
Subject: Open Letter
Echo: Z1_Routing
+++ MESSAGE HEADER+++
Quote from Janis:
"I think that creating another ERN Routelist will cause the Z1B more
problems than you can imagine."
After these messages many of us were left with the feeling that the
Z1C would try to take some kind of action against the Z1B and anyone
friendly towards the Z1B.
Because of the issues with the Z1EC and the Z1C, ultimately several
sysops approached me about an alternate routing list. They were
interested in forming a volunteer group, aka ERN Charting Committee
to address routing issues. Up until that point none of these sysops
had discussed with me or any other member of the Z1B the possibility
of creating an alternate list. The mission of this group was to look
into the possibility of producing an alternate routing chart for
Zone 1. Eventually an alternate routing list was produced and it was
hatched into Z1_REC, the same file distribution echo that
ROUTELST.nnn is hatched.
The very next week the Z1EC hatched ROUTELST.112. Only this time
several FidoNet Zone 1 node numbers were added to the Seenby lines
of the tic file. This prevented these systems, and any peer
connection links of these systems from receiving ROUTELST.112. Not a
single system that was added to the Seenby line connected directly to
the Z1EC for any kind of traffic. That very same week the weekly
posting or ROUTELST.nnn to the message echo Z1_ROUTING stopped.
Obviously both of these events were attempts to keep routing
information out of the hands of people that were considered to be
"not friendly" to the Z1C and Z1EC.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 11 24 Dec 2001
I learned that ROUTELST.112 had been hatched but did not arrive at
my system. I contacted my upstream link for files,
Bob Juge @1:106/2000 about the problem. He acknowledged that the
problem was upstream of him but did not elaborate on what the problem
might be. After checking with another Z1B hub,
Todd Cochrane (1:10/345) it was confirmed that my node number,
1:379/1 and several other node numbers were in the tic file that he
received. Node numbers 4-5 hops away from the Z1EC where also in the
tic file. There were even systems that did not normally receive that
file echo that were also listed in the tic file.
The following nodes were added:
Seenby 1:229/438 Darrell Salter
Seenby 1:229/604 Stewart Honsberger
Seenby 1:229/731 Phil Simpson
Seenby 1:249/116 Carl Austin Bennett
Seenby 1:250/525 Lesley-Dee Dylan
Seenby 1:379/1 Dale Ross
Seenby 1:2404/201 Ruth Argust
Seenby 1:2624/306 David Calafrancesco
The result of this stuffing of node numbers was that the Z1C did
little more than slap the Z1EC on the wrist. The Z1C continues to
support the Z1EC. The Z1EC AND Z1C have never explained what happen
nor have they apologized for these actions against fellow FidoNet
sysops. The Z1EC has attempted to blame this problem on an error in
processing and some multi-computer configuration that she has setup.
Third hand information suggests that she entered the node numbers
into a new software package to test that package and meant to remove
the numbers before the real file was hatched.
The question we have about that explanation:
Why were these specific node numbers used for the test? Everyone one
of the nodes listed was unfriendly to the Z1C or Z1EC for one reason
or another.
It is very obvious that this was a deliberate act by the Z1EC and
possibly the Z1C based on her previous threats. Some of us believe
that this was simply the Z1C carrying out the threats that she had
issued a few months earlier.
The Z1EC has several people running interference for her, most
notably Ross Cassell (1:18/500) and of course our esteemed Z1C.
There are several other people helping but their roles to date have
been of a much lower profile and do not warrant mentioning at this
time. I mention the players because you will read about them in the
comedy skit that I have submitted with this article. As new players
are introduced in future skits I will detail that person's role so
that you can get a better understanding of the players.
There are two people that are publicly known to be associated with
the group producing the alternate routing list. Bobby Queen 1:379/5
is the public spokesperson for the group. I provide a point address
for the group to send NetMail queries about routing information and
I provide technical "support" concerning routing issues.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 12 24 Dec 2001
I may write another article about other events surrounding this
routing chart in the future. The purpose of that article will be to
give you a better understanding of what they do. However, the
intention of this article is to focus on the Seenby stuffing.
These events have generated several compilations of Monty Python
skits to fit the situation(s). This is the first of those skits.
They were all written as a method of releasing tension over the
situation. We went through several names before we hit on these. We
figure they are more acceptable to all readers than some of the other
proposed names. As I was touching this skit up months after
originally writing it, a new name has come to the surface and I have
added it in here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 13 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ EDITORIAL ]
=================================================================
It's an Anarchy Killing?
By Frank Vest
1:124/6308
Far be it for me to claim any knowledge of Anarchy. My interest is
due mainly to claims that Fidonet is/was supposed to be an anarchy and
that Tom Jennings is/was an anarchist.
With the above in mind, I felt that a wee bit of study should be
invested, therefore, I have done a little reading on the subject of
anarchy. Probably as much as some have done regarding Policy4 prior to
rejecting or using it. Maybe more. :)
Ok... So what is Anarchy??
(Before going on, I would advise the tobacco and brewing industry to
double production immediately The EPA (Environmental Protection
Agency) and MADD (Mothers against Drunk Drivers) should go into
"alert" status as well as any other entities affected, as there is
going to be an increased need in the areas covered by them.)
From the definitions I read, anarchy is "no rule" or "without rule".
<sputter, cough>
What!!! NO RULES!?!?!? We can't function without rules! This is
insane!! Where's my cigarettes! I need a beer!! Where's my car
keys???! I need to go to the store for more cigarettes and beer!!
(insert sound effects as desired)
</sputter, cough>
Easy now... easy...
Um.. er... Would someone please help these poor readers back to their
chair in front of the computer?.... Thanks! :)
Now, kind readers, please give your car keys to someone you can trust
or put them away, take the 5 cigarettes out of your mouth, put the
glass of whatever alcohol you are drinking down before you spill it on
the keyboard again, clean the monitor screen, take a few deep breaths
and relax..... Good... much better. :)
Ok, let's continue.
Anarchy is "without rule"... it is not "without RULES". Notice the
difference? From my understanding, the belief is not being ruled over
or by someone/group. "Rules" are allowed. In fact, rules will exist.
Anarchy also seems to believe that a group of people will, if left
alone, work out a system of "rules", or agreement(s), to accomplish
whatever they need to accomplish. This, without the need for a person,
or group, to tell them "how to", "what to", "when to" and such. IOW
without force, coercion or rule.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 14 24 Dec 2001
The above can be accomplished via two methods.
One is revolution. This can require coercion, and often, deception to
get others to join in the action... unless the group is large enough
to cause the revolution by itself. This can work, but can have the
side effect of a need to be able to "enforce" the "anarchy" that has
been fought for and won. If you note "enforce" and "anarchy", you can
see that there is the real possibility that this can revert back to
the same, if not a worse, state than what was fought for in the first
place.
The other is through cooperation, education and such. While this
might take a long time and ultimately end in a revolution, the
revolution would, IMHO, be more lasting in its intended effect. IOW,
The larger the group that has the same views, the less the resistance
needed and the less the enforcement needed to maintain the results. Of
course, this could revert back, but wouldn't be as likely since most
would be of like mind and belief.
Whew! I'm glad that's over. :) With that behind us, let's press on
and look at Fidonet.
Fidonet is an anarchy? Well, I'll get into my humble opinions here
and you can decide from them... or other means.
Fidonet has a policy. Yes, I know it is old. I know it has been used
wrongly and all the other arguments that go along as well. However,
Fidonet is an anarchy in the respect that, for the most part, the
Sysops that run the systems (computers) in Fidonet do as they please
and _choose_ to be in Fidonet.
The "_choose_" is important. If the choice to be part of Fidonet was
made with full understanding and knowledge that there is a policy,
then there should be little in the way of problems. If the choice was
made without this understanding and knowledge, then someone did
someone a disservice. Take that up with that person. The point is,
The choice was made to join... the choice can be made to leave if
desired. Anarchy. No force or coercion to stay. Your own free will.
One other thing that anarchy seems to deal with is reality. While
anarchy is "without rule" the reality is that there will be rules and
rule. The difference is that in anarchy, the group agrees on the rules
and the rule is by the group. No one person or group can rule over
another. All are free to join or leave a group as desired or create a
group.... without fear of persecution by the rest of the group(s). Any
person can form another group if the group they are in doesn't "fit"
what they believe. No one is forced to stay in Fidonet. No one is
prevented from starting a new group outside of Fidonet. That much of
Fidonet is anarchy.
Once someone chooses to join Fidonet, they are subject to it's rules.
The coercion and force are currently there. Policy is policy until
policy is changed. How to change policy is written in policy. How to
change policy to fit what the people want is written in policy and in
anarchy.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 15 24 Dec 2001
Policy allows for change. It's hard to do. People don't want to
change.... unless it is shown to be good, of benefit or something
positive. As it currently stands, most of what I've seen in Z1 has
been anything but positive. Arguing that anarchy is better by
accusation, names being called, blame being laid (justified or not)
and all other such are negative. Why would people want to change from
a government enforced order to a anarchy when appearances are that
both use the same thing to administer? Why change policy when the
arguments to change are justified with the same political accusations
that are used to justify not changing? Where is the positive? People
aren't going to vote, ask for or try to change anything in such a
situation. Why change? They have the same thing now, from all
appearances.
Yes, Policy4 was voted in by the, then, controlling parties. Yes,
it's been forced upon Fidonet? That is not relevant to this. What is
relevant is that this forced policy was, and is, accepted by Fidonet
in general. Remember that one Zone dos not a Fidonet make. It is
entrenched in Fidonet and a revolution by one Zone, much less a Region
or Net, that makes up a small part of Fidonet isn't going to last.
People, in general, don't want to change.
A revolution, in definition, is the overthrow (removal) of one thing
for another. Often times, more so with anarchy, there is a vacuum left
by the revolution. This vacuum is often filled with the same, or a
worse, government than what was removed by the revolution in the first
place.
Is anarchy a good thing? Yes, it can be. Can it be done in Fidonet?
Yes, it can. Will it be done? I don't know. I don't believe it will
be done until those that claim to be anarchist realize that they are
barking up the wrong tree. I don't believe that it will happen without
changing Policy4. I don't think that Policy4 will be changed by/with
revolution or force. I think that the only way to change policy is to
work within policy for a change. Not violently, not with force, but
within what policy allows. Use policy to change policy. Use education
to show the benefits. Remember, people don't want to change. This is
even more true if the change from force is made with force. :-)
Do I believe that Fidonet is an anarchy? Yes and no. Some of it is,
some isn't. Reality? What Fidonet it is, it is. Until the groups in
Fidonet can be convinced that anarchy is positive, good, of benefit
and other such, full anarchy will not happen. I'm not sure this is
possible in any reality to begin with. It is possible to have a group,
or groups, that is/are anarchistic, but they will have to live within
the current Fidonet and abide by it's rule until such time as enough
are educated and join with them. Force, rebellion and other such acts
will not accomplish this. IMHO, this is reality.
I do believe that many of those in Fidonet that claim anarchy aren't
and know little about anarchy. I do believe that I don't know all
about it either. I do believe that, to some degree, I've read more on
anarchy than some have read on Policy4. I do believe that my
interpretation of what I have read may be as accurate as some
interpretations of Policy4. :)
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 16 24 Dec 2001
I do believe that I have some references for those interested. :)
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~ctb/anarchy/
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~ctb/anarchy/docs/consent.html
Best regards,
Frank
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 17 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ FIDONET WEB PAGE REVIEWS ]
=================================================================
Region 15 Web Page
By Frank Vest
1:124/6308
Where?:
http://www.bobsplc.com/public/reg15/index.html
This reporter may be a little prejudice in this review. I've always
liked the desert areas of the U.S.A. New Mexico was, and still is,
where I want to live.
The background of the page is beautiful. Nice "sky blue" fade. Of
course, there is the "Dog with Diskette" at the top. How else to tell
it is a Fidonet page? :-)
The title is a large font instead of a graphic. Nice in that it loads
faster. Up front, this page tells you where the Region is located. If
you look, there is a link for applying for a Node number.
As you scroll down, there's a nice picture and a blurb telling who
hosts the page and where the host is located. I'm not sure that this
plug of a BBS is warranted, but it's not my page. :)
We now come to the menu area. There are four links here. Dial-up BBS
list in R15, telnet BBS in R15, Links to other Fidonet sites and
a link for applying for a Node number in R15.
The "Links to other Fidonet Sites" is a little sparse, but I'm sure
that will come around in time. :)
At the bottom of the page is a link to retrieve Policy 4 and some
credits and copyright.
All in all, a nice page. Some work yet to be done, obviously, but a
good page.
Good Fidonet web page surfing to you all,
Frank
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Region 53 Web Page
By Frank Vest
1:124/6308
Where:
http://fido.bitsoft.ro/
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 18 24 Dec 2001
To call this a Fidonet web page would be understating thing. This is
more like a Fidonet world. The design looks like something you would
see on a new site or something. It is well designed and organized.
At the top is the header that announces what the site is about and
gives location. Under that are options for member log in, search and
topics. You can join, but it is not required. Down the left side are
links to other parts of the site. The center is used for news article
"snippets" to read and a link to read the article if it interests you.
On the right side is an option to select your language, a "poll" area
for voting and a log in option for members.
I haven't explored this site in full, but from what I have looked at,
it is impressive. The one thing I don't like is the "Dog with
Diskette". The poor thing seems a little "squashed" to me. :)
I would suggest that you take a look at this site. It's clean looking,
well designed and organized. The site promotes the positive and give
information. Very well done IMHO.
Happy surfing,
Frank
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 19 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ OL'WDB'S COLUMN - WARREN BONNER ]
=================================================================
"'Tis THE SEASON..."
From: Warren Bonner <
[email protected]>
To be jolly, fa la la.. a la laaa... Way back when I was a kid, this
season was my reason for being a 'good boy' all year! Hi De Ho Ho!
This little elf has been working especially hard to bring the Snooze
some Christmas cheer. It is not easy to get into that mood if I pay
attention to the tensions generated in the echoes, even over a
submitted article, a nodelisting or a routing flag!
This year has been trying times for Fidonet. So today, instead of
talking about the futility of the above as I originally had penned,
I'm sending my warmest holiday wishes to each and every one of you.
Our family has always celebrated the unique and special warm feelings
that seem to fill the air in every room of our home with love. I'm
especially grateful to God for the love I share with my wife Jannie,
and our six children, and all of their children. We wish everyone
good health, happiness and prosperity to all of you and your loved
ones everywhere in the world.
I pray for the safety and well being of our troops around the world,
and wish they too could put their feet under their Mom's Christmas
dinner table. Grateful for the bravery and courage of the Firemen and
Firewomen who work to protect our homes and the Police who guard our
safety with their own lives, and to the Paramedics emergency services
that save so many lives.
May this Holiday Season be filled with rapture and tranquility is my
most sincere wish for all. May God bless America and may this
Christmas day bring you and your family love, peace and happiness.
To help to that end, below are some sites you and family may visit:
http://www.noradsanta.org/ Children from around the world can follow
Santa and his reindeer moving from global time zone to time zone.
http://odin.aafes.com/mars/marsgram.asp Armed forces personnel and
their families can exchange messages.
http://www.reata.org/interview2.html What would it be like to talk
with God? This touching presentation is visually stunning and offers a
collection of life's lessons and ideas that anyone can learn from.
Warmest Regards,
Ol'wdb
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 20 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ FIDONET NOTICES ]
=================================================================
New User Flags
The following Nodelist flags have been announced for use by the
International Coordinator.
************************* QUOTE *************************
MRVIA
This flag should be used by the Network/Region Coordinator,Host,
or Network/Region Echomail Coordinator to indicate the primary
path for echomail routed netmail into the net/region.
In a flag field of the nodelist the MRVIA flag would be used
indicating the three dimensional node number of that node which
will route the netmail to the network/region listed in the node
number field for the nodelist on that line. There can be only
one MRVIA flag for a network and only one for the region level.
This flag is normally on the NEC or REC's nodelist entry.
RVIA
This flag should not be used by nodes whose routing path is
covered by either Host routing or an Echo-Routed netmail path
list maintained as each zone decides. It should, however, be
used if no true routing data is available for a node.
In a flag field of the nodelist the RVIA flag would be used
indicating the three dimensional node number of that node which
will route the netmail to the node listed in the node number
field for the nodelist on that line.
DRVIA
This flag optionally may carry a :Z:net/node uplink primary.
Specifically there is to be only one entry of this flag per
region and it is used to designate the default region routing
site for all nets in that region if no other route is known.
It is applied to the primary use number of that node only.
************************ UNQUOTE ************************
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 21 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ HUMOR IN A FIDO VEIN ]
=================================================================
The Fidonet Political Data Base
By Frank Vest
1:124/6308
It has come to my attention that there may be some people in Fidonet
that just don't understand the Political Data Base that Fidonet
politics uses. The below is based on a reply I made to a person that,
I'm sure, didn't want to know this. :-)
The Question (if you call it that) :-)
I know very little about how fidonet politics work, so if I offend
any one, it is unintentional.
The Answer (if you call it that) :-)
You've probably already offended someone. Simply not knowing is
offensive to some. :) I'll offer a quick primer below for you to
study with a grain of salt. :-)
Politics in Fidonet are simple.
The data base:
Anything you write that offends someone, or even if it doesn't, will
be entered into someone's data base. It will be cross referenced in
every conceivable way. When you write a message from then on, that
data base will be checked and if what you are writing is in any way
different from what you wrote before, it will be thrown back in your
face. Of course, you will keep a data base as well so that you can
check it and hit back. The data base is maintained from the beginning
of you joining Fidonet and is never deleted.... even if you leave
Fidonet.... after all, you might come back.
If you were known by someone prior to joining Fidonet, that data is
already included in their data. Be sure to include your knowledge of
them in your data. :)
Now, don't make the mistake of not keeping a data base on your
buddies. They may become your enemy some day and you'll need that
data. Beside, you know they are keeping a data base on you. :)
Use of data base:
The use of the data base is rather simple. If someone writes a
message that disagrees with you or if you don't like that person for
some real or perceived wrong they did to you or your buddy, you
consult your data base and use every message that they ever wrote and
every action they ever took against them. NOTE: You can also do this
just for the sake of starting something. :)
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 22 24 Dec 2001
Always enter the message you are replying to into your data base
before you write your reply. That way it can be selectively recalled,
twisted and spun into what ever you desire with additions from your
data base.
Data base rules:
Never keep your data base in any form of hard copy. Keep it in your
mind/memory. That way you can selectively remember. :)
Add to and update your data base constantly. Additions can, and
should, be from every message written by anyone in Fidonet....
Additions against others can and should come from messages written
from other data bases. NOTE: It is not relevant that information from
other data bases be accurate. Enter the data anyway.... especially if
it is old data from someone IE: A quote of someone's past writing or
some conjecture of/from someone.
Final note:
If you are new and don't have a data base on someone, insult them or
something. That way you can gather data for your data base. ;-)
Welcome to Fidonet. :-))
Regards,
Frank
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Zone 1 Inquisition Part 1
By Dale Ross
1:379/1
This skit is loosely (OK tightly) based on Monty Python's Spanish
Inquisition - Trouble at the Mill Skit
Dale: Trouble in backbone
Bobby: Oh no... what kind of trouble?
Dale: One on't routelists gone owt skew on backbone
Bobby: Pardon?
Dale: One on't routelists gone owt skew on backbone
Bobby: I don't understand what you are saying.
Dale: One of the routelists has gone out askew on the backbone.
Bobby: What on earth does that mean?
Dale: /I/ don't know - Mr. Cochrane just told me to come in here and
say that there was trouble in backbone that's all. I didn't expect a
kind of Zone 1 Inquisition
<Door flies open; Cardinal Snookums and two junior Cardinal's
Stuff-in-Such and Crass barge in>
Snookums: NOBODY expects the Zone 1 Inquisition! Our chief weapon is
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 23 24 Dec 2001
surprise... stuffing and fear... fear and surprise. Our two weapons
are surprise and fear... and ruthless stuffing. Our three weapons are
surprise, fear, ruthless stuffing... and an almost fanatical devotion
to P4. Our /FOUR/ ...no... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements
as surprise, fear.... I'll come in again.
<They Exit through the door>
Dale: I didn't expect a kind of Zone 1 Inquisition
<Door flies open and the Cardinals enter>
Snookums: NOBODY expects the Zone 1 Inquisition! Amongst our weaponry
are such diverse elements as: surprise, fear, ruthless stuffing, an
almost fanatical devotion to P4, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn! (to
Cardinal Stuff-in-Such) I can't say it - you'll have to say it.
Stuff-in-Such: What?
Snookums: You'll have to say the bit about 'Our chief weapons are ...'
Stuff-in-Such: I couldn't do that...
<They Exit through the door>
Dale: I didn't expect a kind of Zone 1 Inquisition
<Door flies open>
Stuff-in-Such: Er.... Nobody...um....
Snookums: Expects
Stuff-in-Such: Expects... Nobody expects the...um...the Zone 1...um..
Snookums: Inquisition
Stuff-in-Such: I know, I know! Nobody expects the Zone 1 Inquisition.
In fact, those who do expect...
Snookums: Our chief weapons are...
Stuff-in-Such: Our chief weapons are...um...er...
Snookums: Stuffing
Stuff-in-Such: Stuffing and --
Snookums: Okay, stop. Stop. Stop there - stop there. Stop. Phew! Ah!
...our chief weapons are stuffing...blah blah blah. Cardinal, read
the charges.
Crass: You are hereby charged that you did on diverse dates commit
heresy against FidoNet. 'My old *C said follow the--'
Stuff-in-Such: That's enough. (To Bobby) Now, how do you plead?
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 24 24 Dec 2001
Bobby: We're innocent
Snookums: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Stuff-in-Such: We'll soon change your mind about that!
Snookums: Surprise, fear, and a most ruthless-- (controls herself
with a supreme effort) Ooooh! Now, Cardinal -- the tic file!
<Stuff-in-Such produces a huge Fox tick>
Stuff-in-Such: You... Right! Tie them down!
Snookums: Right! How do you plead?
Bobby: Innocent.
Snookums: Ha! Right! Cardinal, stuff a node number in the tic file.
Stuff-in-Such: I�
Snookums: I *know*, I know you can't. I didn't want to say anything.
I just wanted to try and ignore your Crass mistake.
Stuff-in-Such: I...
Snookums: It makes it all seem so stupid.
Stuff-in-Such: Shall I...?
Snookums: No, just pretend for Fido's sake. Ha! Ha! Ha!
<Stuff-in-Such pretends to open up a text editor and add node numbers
to a tic file. The Fox tick is rather irritated by the actions and
bites Stuff-in-Such>
Snookums: Now, ERN Charting Committee-- you are accused of heresy on
three counts -- heresy by thought, heresy by word, heresy by deed,
and heresy by action -- *four* counts. Do you confess?
Bobby: We don't understand what we are accused of.
Snookums: Ha! Then we shall make you understand! Stuff-in-Such!
Fetch...THE Hatching Program!
Stuff-in-Such: Here it is, lord.
Snookums: Now, ERN Charting Committee -- you have one last chance.
Confess the heinous sin of heresy, reject the works of the Alternate
routing list -- *two* last chances. And you shall be free -- *three*
last chances. You have three last chances, the nature of which I have
divulged in my previous utterance.
Bobby: We don't know what you're talking about.
Snookums: Right! If that's the way you want it -- Cardinal! Hatch the
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 25 24 Dec 2001
file!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 26 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ COMIX IN ASCII ]
=================================================================
Have a *
/ \
Merry /* \
/. : *\
Christmas!!! /_ . ._\
/ * \
/ . . \
/ * . . *\
/ . * . : \
/ : * * . \
And A Happy / . * . : \
/___ : . * ___\
/ : . : . \
New Year!! / . : . *\
/* . : . .\
/. * . * : .\
/. : . : . * . \
/_____________________\
|___|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 27 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ CLEAN HUMOR & JOKES ]
=================================================================
TRUISMS...
Love is grand. Divorce is a hundred grand.
I am in shape. ..Round is a shape.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember amateurs built the ark.
Professionals built the Titanic.
Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good.
Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.
Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just
sit there.
Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should both be
changed regularly and for the same reason.
An optimist thinks that this is the best possible world.. A pessimist
fears that this is true.
There will always be death and taxes; however, death doesn't get worse
every year.
In just two days, tomorrow will be yesterday.
I am a nutritional overachiever.
I am having an out of money experience.
I plan on living forever. So far, so good.
Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
If marriage were outlawed, only outlaws would have in-laws.
It's frustrating when you know all the answers, but nobody bothers to
ask you the questions.
The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the
right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting
moment.
Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever.
Age doesn't always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone.
And this one is the real truth, so pay attention;
You don't stop laughing because you grow old, you grow old because you
stopped laughing.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 28 24 Dec 2001
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 29 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ SPECIAL INTEREST ]
=================================================================
Nodelist Stats
INPUT NODELIST FILE : NODELIST.355
File has a Date Stamp of : 12/21/2001
File Size (uncompressed) : 1172.38 KBytes.
The Input Nodelist file has 10574 Nodes in it
and a total of 13805 non-comment entries.
The list has 6 Zones listed.
65 Region Coordinators listed.
487 Network Hosts listed.
733 Hubs listed.
364 DOWN Nodes listed.
895 PRIVATE Nodes listed.
681 HOLD Nodes listed.
Administrative overhead = 1291 ( 12.21 %)
PRIVATE NODES overhead = 895 ( 8.46 %)
Baud Rate Summary (or, BPS, for the die-hard technocrats):
9600 = 9023 ( 85.33 %)
(HST's = 191 or 2.12 % of the 9600 baud modems.)
(CSP's = 1 or 0.01 % of the 9600 baud modems.)
(PEP's = 14 or 0.16 % " " " " )
(MAX's = 0 or 0.00 % " " " " )
(HAY's = 2 or 0.02 % " " " " )
(V32's = 5071 or 56.20 % " " " " )
(V32B's = 591 or 6.55 % " " " " )
(V42's = 4864 or 53.91 % " " " " )
(V42B's = 640 or 7.09 % " " " " )
2400 = 109 ( 1.03 %)
1200 = 6 ( 0.06 %)
300 = 467 ( 4.42 %)
----------------------------------------------------------
F_Req Flag Applicable Software Number of Systems
----------------------------------------------------------
XA Frontdoor <1.99b 3977
Frontdoor 2.02+
Dutchie 2.90c
Binkleyterm >2.1
D'Bridge <1.3
TIMS
--------------------------------------
XB Binkleyterm 2.0 9
Dutchie 2.90b
--------------------------------------
XC Opus 1.1 11
--------------------------------------
XP Seadog 7
--------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 30 24 Dec 2001
XR Opus 1.03 70
--------------------------------------
XW Fido >12M 407
Tabby
--------------------------------------
XX D'Bridge 1.30 4588
Frontdoor 1.99b,2.01
--------------------------------------
CrashMail capable = 3666 ( 34.67 %)
MailOnly Nodes = 5596 ( 52.92 %)
Listed-Only Nodes = 814 ( 7.70 %)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 31 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ TODD COCHRANE'S FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING ]
=================================================================
Fidonet Software List
By Todd Cochrane
Type:
B=BBS D=Door M=Mailer T=Tosser C=Communication (terminal)
U=Utility P=Point Software I=Internet (telnet, BinkP...)
<+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=+=-=-+-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+>
( Software Name ) |Type| ( Author/Contact )
<+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=|=-=-|-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+>
|BBBS Home Page |B |
[email protected] |
| | | www.bbbs.net/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|ELEBBS The Elevator |B |
[email protected] |
|Software Production | | www.elebbs.com |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Hermes II Project |B |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.hermesii.org/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Maximus BBS Support |B |
[email protected] |
|Page (Non Official) | |
http://www.vector11.com/maximus/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|MBSE BBS |B | Michiel Broek |
| | |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://mbse.sourceforge.net |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Mystic BBS |B |
http://www.mysticbbs.com/mystic/ |
| | | |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Nexus Bulletin |B |
[email protected] |
|Board System | |
http://www.nexusbbs.net/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Proboard, Searchlight, |BC |
[email protected] |
|Telegrafix | |
http://www.telegrafix.com |
|Communications | | 540-678-4050 |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|RemoteAccess |B | Bruce Morse |
|Central | |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.rapro.com/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Spitfire BBS |B |
[email protected] |
|Buffalo Creek Software | |
http://www.angelfire.com/ia/buffalo/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Synchronet BBS |BT |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.synchro.net |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Telegard BBS |B |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.telegard.net/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Wildcat Interactive |BTMI|
[email protected] |
|Net Server | |
http://www.santronics.com |
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 32 24 Dec 2001
|Plantinum Express | |(305)248-3204 |
| | | Santronics Inc. |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Bentstone Capabilities |D |
[email protected] |
|Group | |
http://www.srupc.com/mall |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Jibben Software |D |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.jibbensoftware.com/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|JNS Software Door Games|D | Rusty Johnson |
| | |
[email protected] |
| | | 304-733-0113 |
| | |
http://www.geocities.com/jnssoftware/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Legend Of The Red |D | |
|Dragon Reborn | | |
|(L.O.R.D.) | |
http://www.lordlegacy.org/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|PC Pursuits |D |
[email protected] |
| | |(301)240-6653 |
| | |
http://www.pcpursuits.com/products.htm |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|S and T Software |D |Mark Bappe |
| | |
[email protected] |
| | |(770)788-6843 |
| | |
http://bozax.iainc.net/public/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Shinning Star BBS Doors|D |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.shiningstar.net/bbsdoors/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Sunrise Door Software |D |Al Lawerence |
| | |
[email protected] |
| | |(404)256-9518 |
| | |
http://www.sunrisedoors.com/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|The Brainex System |D |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.brainex.com/brainex_system/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Trade Wars Door Game |D |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.eisonline.com/tradewars/ |
| | |1:299/110 |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Vagabond Software |D |Bryan Turner |
| | |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://vagabond.virtualave.net/ |
| | |1:124/7013 |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|FMail Support |T |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://fmail.nl.eu.org/ |
| | |2:280/1076 |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Squish Tosser |T |
http://www.lanius.com/squish.htm |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Argus RITLABS |M |
[email protected] |
| | |373-2-246889 |
| | |
http://www.ritlabs.com/argus/ |
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 33 24 Dec 2001
| | |2:469/84 |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|FrontDoor |MTPC|Definite Solutions |
|FrontDoor APX | |
[email protected] |
|Mailer/Point Software | |
http://www.defsol.se/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|BeeMail Home Page |M |
http://beemail.gexonline.net |
| | |Stephen Proffit |
| | |1:211/405 |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|BinkleyTerm XE |M |
http://btxe.sourceforge.net/ |
|Frontend Mailer | | |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|BinkD |MI |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://2f.ru/binkd/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Fidogate |UIT |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.fidogate.org/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Fidonet to Internet |MI |Bo Bendtsen |
|Mailer | |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.terminate.com/fido2int.htm |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|GiGo Software |UI |
http://www.gigo.com/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Internet Rex |MI |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://plaza.v-wave.com/InternetRex/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Tmail |I |
http://www.tmail.spb.ru/index-19.htm |
|(Russian /w English DL)| | |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|TransX Multiboard |M |
[email protected] |
|Communications Inc. | |
http://www.multiboard.com/software/ |
| | |transx.html |
| | |1:2401/305 |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|TransNet |I |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www.ressl.com.ar/transnet/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Watergate |I |
[email protected] |
| | |
http://www2.sbbs.se/hp/ramon/ |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|JetSys-Home of JetMail |TU |
http://www.jetsys.de/ |
|JetStat and other Atari| | |
|Fidonet utilities | | |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|APoint (Author) |P |
http://www.apoint.websale.net/index.htm|
| | |
http://www.apoint-mail.de (Co-Autho) |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|CrossPoint |P |("Original" version) |
| | |
http://www.crosspoint.de |
| | |
http://www.apoint-mail.de |
| | |(OpenXP Projekt) |
| | |
http://www.openxp.com (English) |
| | |
http://www.openxp.de (German) |
| | |CrossPoint (XP2 Team) |
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 34 24 Dec 2001
| | |
http://www.xp2.de |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|WinPoint95 |P |
http://www.schenksmir.de/wp/english |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|The OpenXP CrossPoint |P |
http://www.happyarts.de/xp |
|Projekt | | |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|Terminate Terminal |P |
http://www.terminate.com |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
|PPoint-FTS compatible |P |
http://www.alcuf.ca/ppoint.htm |
|E-Mail System | | |
|-----------------------|----|---------------------------------------|
\====================================================================/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 35 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ JOE JARED'S FIDONET BY INTERNET ]
=================================================================
. -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
| FIDONET-RELATED SITES |
` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
Last update: 8:16 PM 12/17/01
Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301,
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FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 36 24 Dec 2001
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?? Net 5049:
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?? Net 5085:
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Fidonet Via Internet Hubs
a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
address. The email is translated as follows
[email protected] will automatically route to the
appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will
also receive routed notice of this feature.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 37 24 Dec 2001
v-email flag
[email protected]
| email address or
Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
| | |latency|
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 | | | |
10/3 @ Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c
10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c
18/500 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c
103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | CABLE | n/c
103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP,NFS | 384k,!| n/c
103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
105/8 @ Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
105/72 @ Larry James | FTP, BinkP | aDSL | $50/yr
106/1 @ Steve Loupe | BinkP, FTP | 128k | ???
106/2000 | Bob Juge | BinkP VMoT FTP TX| ??? | n/c
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c
107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
134/11 @ Michael Grant | FTP, BinkP, VMoT UUE, IFCICO,TransX
aDSL, 60 | n/c
138/146 | Marc Blakely | BinkP,FTP | ??? | n/c
140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16
142/906 | Chris Griffin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
150/220 | Dave Nemeth | UUE | ??? | n/c
153/7715 | Dallas Hinton | BinkD, FTP | CABLE | ???
167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c
167/166 | Jesse Dooling | POP? UUE TX FTP| ??? | n/c
218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE,TX | 33.6k | n/c
220/10 |
[email protected] |BinkP,FTP,UUE|1.5M+ | n/c
229/1 | Phil Simpson | BinkP UUE FTP | ??? | n/c
229/2000 | Robert Couture |BinkP FTP UUE TX| ??? |
229/622 | Dave Hamilton | BinkP | ??? | n/c
249/116 | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE |ADSL,60 | n/c
250/98 | Darin McBride | BinkP FTP TX | ??? | n/c
250/99 | Brent McLaren | FTP BinkP | ??? | n/c
250/102 | Darin McBride | BinkP FTP | ??? | n/c
267/169 | Philip Lozier | FTP TX | ??? | n/c
261/1380 | Joe Davis | UUE TX | ??? | n/c
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
297/11 | Michael McCabe | TX | ??? | n/c
323/120 | Craig Healy | VMoT FTP | ??? | n/c
342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c
360/5 | Bennie Hutto | FTP VMoT | aDSL | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | CABLE | n/c
379/1 @ Dale Ross | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
379/1200 | Chris Cranford | BinkP FTP TX | ??? | n/c
393/9005 | Steve Quarrella |BinkP TX UUE VMoT| ??? | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkP VMoT FTP | ??? | n/c
396/45 | Marc Lewis |BinkP FTP UUE TX| ADSL | n/c
396/48 | Ben Ritchey | UUE:BFDS? | 33.6k | n/c
2215/300 | Dennis Haddox | UUE,TX | CABLE | n/c
2320/38 | Janis Kracht | BinkP FTP | ??? | n/c
2410/400 | Gary Gilmore | FTP BinkP | 384K,60| n/c
2410/213 | Kevin Bentz | FTP, BinkP, UUE| Cable | n/c
2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo
2624/306 | David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 38 24 Dec 2001
3613/1275 | @
[email protected] | UUE,FTP | 28.8 | n/c
3407/4 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3830/5 | Jeff Schrunk |BinkP FTP TX UUE| ??? | n/c
3830/10 | Matt Bedynek |FTP, BinkD | OC3 n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
22/222 | Kim Heino | BinkP | ??? | n/c
28/1 | Lody Caenen | BinkP FTP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c
37/37 | Gabor Z. Papp | BinkP | ??? | n/c
47/999 | Andrej Kirejev | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
201/329 | Mats Wallin | VMoT TX | ??? | n/c
201/505 | Goran Eriksson | BinkP | ??? | n/c
203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c
211/37 | Torbjorn Mohn | BinkP | 8/2mb | n/c
221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c
236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
240/6298 | Steve Tell | BinkP UUE | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
252/110 | David Rance | UUE | ??? | n/c
255/90 | Simon Avery | UUE | ??? | n/c
263/950 | Sean Rima | TX UUE | ??? | n/c
280/1027 | Lukas de Groen | BinkP FTP | ??? | n/c
280/1601 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
280/4312 | Jos Huijnen | BinkP ifcico UUE TX| ??? | n/c
280/5003 | Kees van Eeten | BinkP ifcico | ??? | n/c
292/620 | Eddy Missoul | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k | n/c
292/624 | Steven Leeman | UUE | 64k | n/c
292/854 | Ward Dossche | BinkP UUE TX | ??? | n/c
292/907 | Bart Verhaeghe | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K | n/c
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
333/0 | M Gianformaggio | BinkP | ??? | n/c
335/534 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
341/14 | Rafael Suarez | BinkP VMoT | ??? | n/c
341/51 | Jose.Maria Tejada | VMoT | |
341/66 | Angel Ripoll | VMoT | |
343/168 | Jose Casanova | VMoT | |
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c
347/1 | Javi Polo | UUE | |
348/105 | Alejandro Estraviz| BinkP UUE | |
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
400/555 | Ofir Michaeli | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
400/557 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
400/558 | Vlad Hrusca | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
461/256 | Andrew Rutkas | BinkP | ??? | n/c
461/640 | Alex Semenyaka |BinkP ifcico UUE| ??? | n/c
465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 39 24 Dec 2001
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
469/128 | Oleg Vasenyoff | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c
550/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | ----- | n/c
2410/201 | Karsten Ebeling | BinkP UUE | ??? | n/c
2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c
2432/200 | Sven Dueker | BinkP TX UUE | ??? | n/c
2446/301 @ Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
2487/3000 | Steffen Gross | BinkP | ??? | n/c
3830/10 | Matt Bedynek | FTP, BinkP | 100Mb | n/c
5002/5002 | Victor Belyakov | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5014/4 | Alex Bagmanov | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
5020/52 | Peter Didenko | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/54 | Serge Wizgounoff | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
5020/69 | B Chernivetsky | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/238 | Sergey Gubanov | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5030/1251 | K Stepanekov | UUE | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
5049/12 | Amir Shabashvili | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5054/3 | Andrew Popov | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5080/80 | Eugene Zorin | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
5083/21 | Alexander Uskov | BinkP,ifcico | ??? | n/c
5090/2 | Andrew Titov | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
712/311 | Bob James | TX | ??? | n/c
774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
801/161 @ Renato Zambon | UUE | 33.6 |n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 6
65/3000 | Lawrence Fan | UUE | 33600 | free
653/1009 | Maorong Chen | UUE | ??? | free
654/0 | Bin Li | UUE,BinkP | 33600 | free
654/1501 | Lawrence Fan | UUE,BinkP | 28800 | free
--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
* TX = TransX
* NFS = Linux Networking
* ifcico = ifcico-compatible virtual mailer
----------------------------------------------
Fidonet oriented news servers
news.osirusoft.com
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 40 24 Dec 2001
news.tardis.net
Fidonet oriented chat rooms.
room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
irc.osirusoft.com (Peers wanted)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 41 24 Dec 2001
=================================================================
[ FIDONEWS INFORMATION ]
=================================================================
How to Submit an Article
If you wish to submit an article for inclusion in the Fidonews, here
are the -=_guidelines_=-:
No more than 70 characters per line. This includes spaces.
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Plain ASCII text _only_. Good rule is: If you can't type it on a plain
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Put a title to the article and your name.
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should without the * and centered. This will help in the format
since the title with the * is removed and used in the index and
the other one will remain and show what the article is about.
Articles that contain vulgar language might not be accepted. (the only
real rule in this whole thing) Remember, we really don't know who
might be reading the Fidonews.
Deadline for article submission is Saturday, 12:00 midnight (24:00
hours) according to _my_ clock. I'm in the Central Time Zone in the
U.S.A. That's GMT-6. Articles received after the deadline will appear
in the next Fidonews.
Help the Editor by following the above guides. Below are some subjects
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----------------------------------|----------------------------------
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Clean Humor & Jokes *.jok | Other Stuff *.oth
Fidonet Classified Ads *.ads | Corrections *.cor
If you don't know or are not sure, send the article anyway. Put a .TXT
on it and I'll try to figure out where it should be in the Fidonews.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 42 24 Dec 2001
If you follow these simple guidelines, there should be little problem
in getting your article published. If your submission is too far out
of specs for the Fidonews, it will be returned to you and/or a message
sent informing you of the problem. This DOES NOT mean that your
article is not accepted. It means that there is something in it that I
can not fix and I need your help on it.
Send Articles via E-mail or Netmail, file attach or message to:
Frank Vest
Fidonet; 1:124/6308
E-Mail;
[email protected]
Please leave me a message telling me that you have sent an article.
That way I will know to look for it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Credits, Legal Infomation, Availability
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Editor: Frank L. Vest, 1:1/23,
[email protected] |
| Crash mail attached: Editor@1:1/23 |
| E-Mail Attach
[email protected] |
| Deputy Editor: Lawrence Garvin, |
| Webmaster: Jim Barchuk,
[email protected] |
| Columnist: Joe Jared, 1:103/0,
[email protected] |
| (Fido Via Internet Hubs column) |
| Columnist: Warren Bonner - Ol'WDB's Corner |
| Columnist: Jack Yates when in the Gawga mood |
| Columnist: Todd Cochrane - Fidonet Software Listing |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince |
| Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, |
| Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink, |
| Doug Meyers, Warren D. Bonner |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA
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Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet.
Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2001 by Frank L. Vest, though authors
retain rights to their contributed articles. Opinions expressed
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and distribution within Fidonet is encouraged. Authors are
encouraged to send their articles in ASCII text to:
Frank Vest at one of his addresses above.
FIDONEWS 18-52 Page 43 24 Dec 2001
The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file
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These sources are normally available through your Network
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the following sources:
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| Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:140/1 |
|
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/ |
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http://www.fidonews.org |
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