F I D O N E W S         Volume 18, Number 11             12 Mar 2001
    +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
    |  The newsletter of the   |     ISSN 1198-4589 Published by:        |
    |    FidoNet community     |              "FidoNews"                 |
    |                          |   Crash Netmail Attach Articled To:     |
    |          _               |fido news@1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778)     |
    |         /  \             |           for Telnet and Bink:          |
    |        /|oo \            |           Fidonews@1:2320/100           |
    |       (_|  /_)           |        Filegate.net or 64.38.85.9       |
    |        _`@/_ \    _      |                                         |
    |       |     | \   \\     |           Editor: Warren Bonner         |
    |       | (*) |  \   ))    |           [email protected]           |
    |       |__U__| /  \//     |           [email protected]          |
    |        _//|| _\   /      |                                         |
    |       (_/(_|(____/       |                                         |
    |             (jm)         |   Newspapers should have no friends.    |
    |                          |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER   |
    +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+



                       Table of Contents
    1. HEADLINE  .................................................  1
       Headline  .................................................  1
    2. CHAT WITH THE EDITOR  .....................................  2
       *** Chat with Editor ***  .................................  2
    3. GUEST EDITORIAL  ..........................................  6
    4. CORRECTIONS  ..............................................  9
    5. THOUGHTS  ................................................. 10
       //+\ Thoughts /+\\  ....................................... 10
    6. LETTERS ACROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK  ......................... 12
       //+\ LETTERS /+\\  ........................................ 12
    7. ARTICLES  ................................................. 14
       //+\ FATCATS & EDITORS /+\\  .............................. 14
    8. FRANK'S COLUMN  ........................................... 18
    9. RECIPES  .................................................. 24
    10. GET EMAIL  ............................................... 27
       //+\ We Got Mail /+\\  .................................... 27
    11. HUMOR  ................................................... 30
    12. NOTICES  ................................................. 32
       <<< IMPORTANT NOTICES >>>  ................................ 32
    13. FIDONET BY INTERNET  ..................................... 35
    14. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  .................................... 40
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 1                   12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                                HEADLINE
    =================================================================

    "He that is good at making excuses, is seldom good at anything else"
                                                  ---Benjamin Franklin

    "Men are ALL inventors, sailing forth on a voyage of descovery..."
                                                  ----Emerson

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 2                   12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                          CHAT WITH THE EDITOR
    =================================================================


    Michiel=MvdV>, Carol Shenkenberger=CS>, Editor=WDB>

    Discussion on echopol in progress, one thing leads to another:

    CS> Understood.  If Warren were trying to make a cut on Z2, he would
    need to apply EP1 in areas where it was applicable right?

    MvdV> My link to the MODERATOR area is operational. I'd better answer
    you there in order not to antagonize Warren any more than I already
    did. I see you are in the seen-by's.

    WDB> Not to worry Michiel, this echo is for the discussion of anything
    to do with the betterment of Fido through exchanges here in Fidonews.


    CS> I think we all know Z2 doesn't participate here that much. It is
    my personal opinion this however has little to do with EP1 and more to
    do with language barriers.

    MvdV> Language does have an effect and EP1 is only a minor point. The
    biggest problem is that the Z2 sysops don't very much like the
    attitude that prevails in many Z1 echoes'...

    WDB> Attitude is a many colored, many flavored concept usually in the
    mind of the person pontificating the faults of others, that in turn is
    the key that responses are flavored and colored with.  If one is
    careful with his/her words of negativity, the results can be positive.
    If on the other hand a resentment is partially concealed in most
    replies, it becomes obviously antagonistic.

    CS> What I perceive is an attempt to provide some articles in other
    languages than english.

    MvdV> That's not going to work. Not to get more contributions from Z2
    anyway. We've long figured out that multilingual publications don't
    work. There are just too many languages. All attempts for pan European
    multilingual television have failed. Multilingual magazines never were
    a success. All companies trying have gone bankrupt.

    WDB> That is a broad brush statement, and is not true here in North
    America as we have many UHF stations that are of other languages and
    caption selection lets us know what is going on on the screen. Some
    Zenes have articled in dual languages, particularly the Spanish ones.

    MvdV> Believe me, FidoNews is NOT going to attract any Dutch readers
    by publishing an occasional article in Dutch with an English
    translation. Those who can read English are already there and those
    not able to read the lingua franca - English - are not going to
    subscribe to a magazine of which they can at best read an occasional
    article.

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 3                   12 Mar 2001


    WDB> True of paid subscriptions I suppose, but we are talking here
    about FidoNews a hobby newsletter where there is an interest in all
    fido persons of whatever nationality.  It is no biggie to scroll down
    an article you can't read to the portion you can read. Sure, the
    Snooze will be a little longer in pages but the service is there.

    MvdV> The only way to attract Dutch readers that can not read English
    is to translate /everything/ in Dutch.

    WDB> Well we will see if that bucket holds water when and if Dutch
    articles come in as submissions in both Dutch and English. If none are
    forthcoming it is their loss.

    MdvV> Then again there are plenty of people in Europe that can read
    neither Dutch nor English. For those one would have to provide
    translations in French, German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Danish,
    Swedish, Bulgarian, Greek, Romanian, Polish, Gealic, Russian,
    Norwegian, Finnish, Lap, Karelian, Estonian Lithuanian, Oekranian,
    Tzjec, Slovanian, Hungarian, Slowakian, Kroatian, Serbian, Albanian,
    Bask, Catalan, Retro Romanian, Welsh and maybe a dozen others that I
    forgot. And that's only Europe.

    CS> I can't force Z2 sysops to write although I grant I have tried to,
    to the point where it was 'unseemly for one not the editor' to do so.

    WDB> That is true, I have tried in previous articles to enlist the
    help of bi-lingual Fidonetters as I know you have.  If they wont
    respond then they are not worthy to be included in the Snooze.

    MdvV> The best way to get Z2 sysops to write is to move the chair of
    the editor to Z2....

    WDB> If they choose not to read or write in the Fidonews, again, it is
    their loss.  If, as you state, their mind set is to exclude anything
    not Dutch, German, French or Spanish, it is truly their loss.

    CS> Can you do something to assist?

    MdvV> I am afraid I can't do much more than I have already done. I
    have tried to make it clear why Z2 sysops are not eager to
    participate. My impression is that it falls on deaf ears. I am
    responded to, but I am not /listened/ to.

    WDB> In so many words you are saying to give the Fidonews editorship
    to Z2 and then your sysops will participate?

    WDB> How does that solve the language differences with the editorship
    there rather then here where Fidonews was invented, registered and
    copyrighted?

    WDB> You are listened to and answered, you apparently don't like the
    answer, so you say your sysops wont participate. Again their loss.

    CS> Many things are in P4 right now, due to Z2 conditions.

    MdvV> Eh????? Sorry Carol, but that is completely wrong. P4 was
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 4                   12 Mar 2001


    written by Z1 sysops and Z1 sysops alone in a time when Z2 had just
    come off the ground. The main problem we had (mind the past tense) at
    the time it was rammed through our throat was that it was entirely
    written for the Z1 situation and took no heed at all to the situation
    in Z2.

    WDB> Excuse me???? The entire ZC's input from all Zones devised and
    developed and APPROVED the Policy 4. It is ludicrous to state Z1
    "rammed" it down Z2's throat. If Z2 is so unhappy with it, and holds
    `vastly more votes', WHY doesn't Z2 amend it and propose ratification
    of all Zones?

    CS> They do not and never did make sense to Z1 sysops.

    MdvV> That can't be. P4 was /entirely/ written by Z1 sysops.

    CS> One example is the situation with encrypted netmail. This is a
    legal issue (was, may still be?) in some Z2 countries.

    MdvV> It still is.

    CS> The P4 upheld position was that a sysop must be able to read
    intransit netmail for whatever reason they need to and believe me,
    that irks the HELL out of Z1 sysops once they figure it out.

    MdvV> Yet it was them and them only that put it there. There is not a
    single line in P4 written by a Z2 sysop.

    WDB> When Z2 or any other Zone accepts P4, it is the same as if the
    wrote every word.  The final votes of ALL Zones become equally the
    author.

    CS> Had Z1 'taken over' on that issue, all netmail would be unreadable
    to whatever level the 2 ends could manage while still getting through
    the various intermediate 'hops' to get from 'sender to receiver'.

    MvdV> I have no idea what you are driving at. Do you object to the use
    of encryption or do you want to encourage it? I have lost you.

    CS> No one between would be able to read it per P4. In short, body of
    message encrypted. But can we do that?  No. It poses major legal
    problems still in some zones other than Z1 (I think it's legal in all
    Z3 and Z1 but not sure of the others).

    MvdV> That doesn't seem to bother those using e-mail via the
    InterNet...

    CS> Z2 is now larger than the rest of us combined.

    MvdV> Moreover, some regions in Z2 are larger than the whole of Z1..

    CS> Be careful to act wisely with today's standards and listen to all,
    not just your own zone or own region ok?

    MvdV> Sigh... Our main problem is Z1 not listening to US. Not when
    they were the biggest and not when they aren't any more...
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 5                   12 Mar 2001


    CS> It's not a `numbers of sysops' game.

    MvdV> Really?

    CS> Really.  It's not.  Z2 somehow has a block of RC numbers so large,
    that the other 5 zones together cant over-ride a P4 update if all Z2
    RC's voted for it.

    MvdV> That's how it is now. At the time of adoption of P4 Z2 was very
    small. Just a few regions.

    CS> Back when P4 came in, we still have 10 Z1 RC's.   We still do.
    Note it takes RC votes.  It did then, and does now. We in Z1 were
    probably outnumbered in RC's even then though I am not sure.

    MvdV> Definitely not. P4 was adapted by a Z1 majority when Henk Wevers
    was in the plane back home after a sysop meeting in Z1 where he was
    promised that would not happen....

    WDB> Ummmmm, Learn something everyday, do you have anything to
    substantiate that claim?  I'm not doubting your word, just would like
    to see an article to clear that, and other things mentioned above, for
    all Fidonews readers of all nations.

    Cheers, Michiel

    WDB> Thank you and Carol for a very interesting chat.  We all learned
    something to take home with us.  I have a bit of "cogitating" to do
    after all that has been put on the table here today.

    Your Editor,
    Ol'wdb

                           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 6                   12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                             GUEST EDITORIAL
    =================================================================

             *Why are there so many points in zone 2?
                     by Michiel van der Vlist
                     ------------------------

    This question was recently put to me by a zone 1 sysop when I claimed
    there are in the order of 50,000 points in Zone 2.

    At first I thought: what an odd question, I would have asked "why is
    it that pointing never took hold in Zone 1?" Is it because there is no
    incentive to reduce the off hook time because local calls are often
    free? Is it the Not Invented Here syndrome? Are there other reasons?

    She conjectured there was some arcane reason because she heard of a
    net in california that required prospective sysops to run as a point
    system for a year. "What is going on in zone 2" was her question.

    It started me to think about it and I concluded that it needed
    something more than an echomail message to compose a response that
    made sense to those not familiar with the ins and outs of pointing.

    So here is one of those "in depth" articles that takes distance from
    the day to day hectics of echomail. ;-)

    Pointing was introduced in 1987 by Henk Wevers, Host/NC of the then
    only net in The Netherlands: net 500. First net outside the Americas
    for that matter. Net 5000 was to be the fake net for use by all
    bossnodes and points were assigned a four digit point number unique
    across the net. Later the number 5000 turned out to be a bad choice
    but at that time it seemed ok and pointing was a hit. It allowed users
    to interface directly with the network without the burden of logging
    into a BBS and typing in their messages on-line. Note that contrary to
    the situation in the US, local calls were never free of charge in The
    Netherlands and most other countries in Europe. Until 1985 or so l
    local call was charged a flat fee of one unit independent of duration.
    The Telco changed that because IBM constructed a cheap country wide
    WAN by tying together dial up lines that were constantly kept open,
    thereby avoiding the high cost of rental lines. This was possible
    because local areas overlap. Metering on local calls put a stop to
    that.

    This was also a blow to the BBS community. The meter is running while
    you'r online! That put a strong incentive on off-line reading. There
    was of course of off-line readers like Blue Wave or QWK but a point
    system is much more flexible. As a user, on-line or off-line, one
    usually needs to go trough an authorisation procedure to obtain a
    level high enough to download interesting files. A point doesn't need
    that. Once the hurdle of obtaining the point number and getting it to
    work is taken, a point can freq files at all nodes in the network
    without further ado. Also a point system can run unattended. BBS's
    were often very busy in those times. Many tries were needed to get
    trough. As a user one has to stay close to take action when the
    connection finally came through. A point can just initiate a poll or
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 7                   12 Mar 2001


    have it scheduled by the event manager and walk away. Fire and forget.
    However busy the boss system is, the call will eventually get through
    and the mail will be there when one returns from a fishing trip or a
    good night sleep.

    True, a point system takes a bit more effort setting up then
    installing an off-line reader. Note that the melting cup where this
    all started - net 500 - was a club net and the members were all
    computer nerds of one kind or another. Apparently they didn't mind the
    effort.

    Later Joaquim Homrighausen introduced 4D addressing in his FrontDoor
    mailer and it was soon followed by others. Points became a major
    source of echomail and that enticed others to try pointing too. The
    number of points grew exponentially. I joined relatively late in the
    game; 1992. This was because I was too pig headed to submit to the
    Intel/Microsoft supremacy. I would have written an FTN compatible
    mailer for my 8 bit FLEX 6809 home brew concoction if I could have
    found the specs for the ARC compression algorithm. But before I was
    able to, my employer shoved me an IBM clone through my throat. The
    sysop of my favorite BBS saw his chance and came running in with a
    disk containing a mailer, tosser and message editor and before I could
    finish my coffee had it installed on my computer. It didn't take long
    for me to get hooked. From then on I was known as 2:500/13.10135. The
    number has changed a couple of times since then and I have had more
    than one number at the time taking echomail from a multitude of boss
    nodes but although I finally took the step to full node status, I have
    always remained a point at heart.

    As I said, the number of points grew like a rabbit colony. When I
    joined in 1992 there were about 1200 In R28. By the time I had my
    first point list utility programme running about six month later there
    were over 1600 and I had to change the memory model from small to
    compact because I couldn't fit the list in 64K! At the top in or
    around 1995 there were over 5600 listed points in The Netherlands. The
    number of points not listed is anybody's guess.

    There are no arcane reasons for the large number. There never was a
    requirement to be a point for some time before becoming a node. Not in
    The Netherlands and not in the rest of zone 2 AFIAK. That certainly is
    not the reason there are so many. Although the point pool has always
    been a source for new sysops and some have used it as a stepping
    stone, the majority of points never had the intention nor the ambition
    to go for full node status. Pointing is a thing of it's own. It
    combines the best of two worlds. The flexibility of the node to
    interface with the network and the freedom of the user. In particular
    points are relieved of the burden of ZMH complience. It is possible to
    run a node without a dedicated line, but it carries some social risk
    if one doesn't live alone. Family members do not take kindly to being
    woken up by a caller not understanding the concept of advertised on
    line times. A point doesn't have that problem. He only calls out. He
    doesn't need a second line, nor is there a risk that he will be called
    in the middle of the night every two minutes on his voice line by some
    badly configured mailer.

    So why are there so many points in Z2? The answer is there aren't.
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 8                   12 Mar 2001


    There are an average of five times as many points as there are nodes.
    A fairly reasonable number in a hierarchical network. Five zones in a
    global network, Five nets in a region, Five Hubs for a Host, Five
    nodes for a Hub, Five points to a Boss. Sounds reasonable doesn't it?

    That leaves the counter question "Why did pointing never really take
    on in Z1 unanswered."  I'll leave that question to be answered by
    others.

    Michiel van der Vlist 2:280/5555 [email protected] [email protected]


                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~




    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 9                   12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                               CORRECTIONS
    =================================================================

    By: Warren Bonner
    To: Carol Shenkenberger
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     > Warren, Michiel has a point.  I hadnt noticed before but unless
     > these phone numbers lead to you somehow, they probably need to
     > be edited out of the banner. <g>.
     >
     >                                        xxcarol
    You are correct as usual.  They are voice numbers on the DSL lines.
    (moderator and comoderator's lines on opposite sides of town)
    I will correct that.  Thanks for the heads up on it. I read the darn
    Snooze every week b-4 hatch, and it just never dawned on me that the
    numbers were wrong for the addresses.

    Look to the next Nodelist for corrections. Janis is helping us out
    with auto pots attached submissions.

    Thanks again,
    Ol'wdb

    --- InterMail 2.29k
     * Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/ 1:103/401 (1:103/401)
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 10                  12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                                THOUGHTS
    =================================================================


         Found in researching F D Roosevelt's Library

    "Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have
    trouble remembering how to fly." It's National Friendship Week.
    Show your friends how much you care.

    Eleanor Roosevelt wrote:

                     Many people will walk
                     in and out of your life,
                     But only true friends
                     will leave footprints in your heart.

                    To handle yourself, use your head;
                    To handle others, use your heart.
                    Anger is only one letter short of
                    danger.

                    If someone betrays you once, it is his fault;
                    If he betrays you twice, it is yourfault.
                    Great minds discuss ideas;
                    Average minds discuss events;
                    Small minds discuss people.

                    He who loses money, loses much;
                    He, who loses a friend, loses much more;
                    He, who loses faith, loses all.
                    Beautiful young people are accidents
                    of nature, But beautiful old people are
                    works of art.

                    Learn from the mistakes of others.
                    You can't live long enough to make
                    them all yourself.

                    Friends, you and me....You brought
                    another friend....
                    And then there were 3. We started our
                    group....

                    Our circle of friends....And like that
                    circle....
                    There is no beginning or end..
                    Yesterday is history.
                    Tomorrow is mystery.
                    Today is a gift.

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    __________________________________________________
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 11                  12 Mar 2001


    Do You Yahoo!?
    Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
    http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 12                  12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                    LETTERS ACROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK
    =================================================================


    By: Michiel van der Vlist == MV
    To: Michael Grant ....... == MG
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi Michael,

     > Mv> That is not what the Z1 sysops said when they rammed P4
     > Mv> through our throat the sheer power of numbers. Now that
     > Mv> the balance of numbers is reversed it suddenly ain't a
     > Mv> number of sysops game anymore?
     >
     MG> Using your argument, zone 2 ought to be "ramming" something
     MG> down out throats at the moment.

    MV> No, I am just saying that you can't have your cake and eat it too.
    It was Z1 that imposed P4 on Z2 by majority rule. Now that the numbers
    have turned you can't change the rules if we hold you to something in
    it that you don't like any more.

     MG> If the zone 2 members don't like things too much, why
     MG> aren't they very vocal about it?

    MV>For one, there is a long history of being shouted down. Now that
    the numbers have turned and Z1 no longer calls the shots, they are
    probably not all that interested any more in what goes on in Z1. "Let
    them make their own mess" is probably the general attitude. My
    personnel opinion is that they are wrong and that Z1's mess will
    affect the network as a whole and that is why I am one of the few that
    bothers to speak up.

     MG> If the vast majority of zone 2 members choose to sit on
     MG> their hands and do nothing,

    MV> What makes you think the Z2 sysops are sitting on their hands and
    doing nothing?

    WB> Good question.  The answer that pops into mind immediately is your
    statement above, "Let them make their own mess", with no input of
    articles to show their participation.

     MG> you can't blame zone 1 for that. At least there are people
     MG> /trying/ to improve things in this zone.
     MG> Zone 2 is a victim of it's own disorganization and apathy.

    MV> What an utter nonsense. You have obviously no idea what is going
    on in Zone 2. There is plenty of activity and we are doing fine, thank
    you.

     MG> If you want your zone to have more clout, It is not me, it is the
    FidoNews editor that wants more zone 2 participation. I am trying to
    explain why there is so little.

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 13                  12 Mar 2001


     MG> tell it to get it's act together first. You know that saying
    about people in glass houses?

    MV> It is this arrogance that pisses off the Z2 sysops Michael. We
    _do_ have our act together. Zone 2 is running fine. However, every
    time a Z2 sysop has the guts to look beyond his own zone and enters a
    globally distributed area, he gets shouted down by a bunch of Z1
    sysops as soon as he opens his mouth. The Z1 sysops /say/ they are
    interested in the views of others, but they never really listen to
    what the others have to say...
    No wonder Z2 sysops shy away from globally distributed areas.

     MG> It's this attitude that I always hear from Zone 2 members
    that it's "all zone 1's fault", I don't know how you got that idea.
    Sure, some things that have gone wrong /is/ Z1's fault. But not all
    of it off course.

     MG> While seeing few real live proposals to actually improve
    things in Fidonet.

    MV> Then you are not looking in the right places...

    WB> The only articles in the last six months are from you outside of
    the brief commotion Leeman caused when Ward tried to illegaly take him
    out of the nodelist.

     MG> That has led me to think that zone 1 would be better off
    ust drafting it's own zonal policy, and forgetting about the other
    zones.

    MV> Part of the problem is that from the point of view of the other
    zones, that is what Z1 has been doing all along....

    Think about it.

    Cheers, Michiel

    WD> You are right in a way, Zone One has always taken the initive if
    anything got done.  You people in Zone Two have a bad attitude toward
    each other, and some refuse to work with others, on any level.

    JMHO too
    Ol'wdb
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 14                  12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                                ARTICLES
    =================================================================


    Sun 11 Mar 01 11:42a
    By: Carol Shenkenberger == CS>
    To: Warren Bonner...... == WB>
    Re: Re: Moderator Rules as repeatedly requested
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    ((( Since this is important for all to know I answered it here.)))

       *** Quoting Warren Bonner from a message to All ***

    WB>                         -12-
    WB> The change in moderators will be done in accordance with past
    tradition. The moderator will name a successor when he retires. If an
    emergency incapacitates the editor, the Z1C will choose a replacement.
    These Guidelines are subject to change at any time. The moderator's
    word is the final authority.
                --------------------------------
    CS> Can I make a suggestion?  Make it the IC as long as we have an
    active one? Then the various ZC's can 'suggest' suitable candidates to
    the IC (and so can anyone else with an opinion obviously!).

    WD>Sorry Carol, I cannot in good conscience fly the Fidonews Banner
    each week that is very specific about the originator of Fidonews and
    his ownership of the Logo and Copyright which is home based in Zone
    One, San Francisco, Ca.

    WD> The Fidonews is a separate entity from Fidonet. Fidonet has no
    authority over this entity. The Z1C and some of the RC's rallied very
    quickly in the emergency of Doug's demise, to keep the Snooze on track
    not missing one issue. This would not have been possible if the IC
    were the "most equal of all equals", seeking advice from Zones that
    don't respond to netmail for days or even weeks. Impracticable, IMHO.

    WB> The Z1C is the final say in an EMERGENCY, and accepts input from
    the RCC as to who may be a good PRO TEM EDITOR.

    WB> Once that is established in lieu of the editor's passing or
    becoming incapacitated, the ninety day pro tem period begins with the
    newly named editor, when no co-moderator or named successor is known.
    This is new ground as no editor has ever suddenly passed away before
    without a co-moderator.

    WB> Tradition in Fidonews has been for the Editor to choose the next
    editor with this one exception of Doug's passing suddenly.

    WB> In this editor's case, being promoted from columnist to editor was
    a shock at first. I went to work to first see that this situation did
    not occur again, and named Joe Jared as co-moderator. The co-moderator
    is the person to carry on in an emergency.  Doug never appointed a
    co-moderator.

    WB> Joe is coding a modern "Makenews.exe" and can fill in should I
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 15                  12 Mar 2001


    fail. He is far too busy with a young business to be a permanent
    editor and I have for that reason tagged Frank Vest to be the next
    permanent editor.  I am waiting his response, and expect it to be
    A-OKAY.

    CS> An alternative might be to add in a note to the IC, that
    it needs to be a site who shows interest and writes articles at least
    every (insert timeframe, possibly every 6 months as a minimum over an
    18 month recent count). That seems possibly to solve some of the
    dilemmas?

    WB> Sorry to disagree with you Carol, you have been a wonderful help
    in articles for the Snooze.  Hope this doesn't mean the "honeymoon" is
    over.. <Real nervous laugh>.

    Ol'WDB


    By: Frank Vest, Collin County Station (124/6308.1)
    To: Editor, Interim Fidonews Editor (1/23)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                       A little thing on cats.
                       By Frank Vest (sort of)


    It's strange how things happen. I've been reading the chatter in the
    Fidonews Echo about cats and the ongoing "battle" (said jokingly)
    about what they do, how they do, ways to correct behavior and such.
    Just the other day, a joke came across my Point in a local echo. My
    first thought was, "Wow! This is weird. Maybe I should send this to
    the Fidonews." So, here it is. :-))

                            Diary of a Cat

    DAY 752 - My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling
    objects. They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat
    dry cereal. The only thing that keeps me going is the hope of escape,
    and the mild satisfaction I get from ruining the occasional piece of
    furniture. Tomorrow I may eat another houseplant.

    DAY 761 - Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their
    feet while they were walking almost succeeded, must try this at the
    top of the stairs.  In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile
    oppressors, I once again induced myself to vomit on their favorite
    chair...must try this on their bed.

    DAY 762 - Slept all day so that I could annoy my captors with sleep
    depriving, incessant pleas for food at ungodly hours of the night.

    DAY 765 - Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body, in
    attempt to make them aware of what I am capable of, and to try to
    strike fear into their hearts. They only cooed and condescended about
    what a good little cat I was ...Hmmm.  Not working according to plan
    ......

    DAY 768 - I am finally aware of how sadistic they are. For no good
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 16                  12 Mar 2001


    reason I was chosen for the water torture.  This time however it
    included a burning foamy chemical called "shampoo."  What sick minds
    could invent such a liquid.  My only consolation is the piece of thumb
    still stuck between my teeth.

    DAY 771 - There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices.  I
    was placed in solitary  throughout the event. However, I could hear
    the noise and smell the foul odor of the glass tubes they call "beer."
    More importantly I overheard that my confinement was due to MY power
    of "allergies." Must learn what this is and how to use it to my
    advantage.

    DAY 774 - I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe
    snitches. The dog is routinely released and seems more than happy to
    return. He is obviously a half-wit. The Bird on the other hand has got
    to be an informant. He has mastered their frightful tongue (something
    akin to mole speak) and speaks with them regularly.  I am certain he
    reports my every move.   Due to his current placement in the metal
    room his safety is assured. But I can wait, it is only a matter of
    time.
    -- :-)

    Enjoy and have a great day,

    Frank

    http://texoma.net/~flv
    http://bise.tzo.com/r19

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    From: "William Downes" <[email protected]>
    To: "Warren Bonner" <[email protected]>

              Ever Wonder Why?

    Joe Smith started the day early,
    having set his alarm clock (made in Japan) for 6:00a.m.
    While his coffee pot (made in China) was perking,
    he shaved with his electric razor (made in Hong Kong).
    He put on a dress shirt (made in Sri Lanka),
    designer jeans (made in Singapore),
    and tennis shoes (made in Korea).
    After cooking his breakfast in his electric skillet [made in India),
    he sat down with his calculator (made in Mexico),
    to see how much he could spend today.
    After setting his watch (made in Taiwan),
    to the radio (made in India),
    he got in his car (made in Germany)
    and continued his search for a good-paying American job.
    At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day,
    Joe decided to relax for a while.
    He put on his sandals (made in Brazil),
    poured himself a glass of wine (made in France),
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 17                  12 Mar 2001


    and turned on his TV (made in Indonesia),
    then wondered why he can't find a good-paying job in AMERICA

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 18                  12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                             FRANK'S COLUMN
    =================================================================

    Date: Monday, March 05, 2001 5:17 AM

                      More "Ancient" History
                          By Frank Vest


    If you read the article last week, I posted a document from Tom
    Jennings about the history of Fidonet. There are two parts to this. I
    guess it would be only fitting to post the second part. :)

    In thinking on history (not my best subject in school), I want to give
    a little un-scientific timeline here.

    Major inventions:

    The Wheel: Some thousands of years ago, the wheel was invented. It is
    still used today.

    The Printing Press:

    Not as old as the wheel, but used the wheel in its operation. Still
    used today.

    The Horse and Buggy:

    Pretty old. Used the wheel. Is now pretty much obsolete.

    The Automobile:

    Fairly new. Used the wheel. Still in use, but becoming obsolete as
    technology moves on.

    The Computer:

    Very new. What wheel?? :) While not obsolete, each new machine created
    is obsolete before it is released to the market.

    It seems that as things advance, they become "outdated" faster. The
    wheel exists today in many forms. The horse and buggy is pretty well
    outdated. Printers and copiers have done away with much of the
    printing press work, and the poor computer can't even make it to the
    market. <grin>

    Anyway, here's the article. :-)

    ---------- Begin Fido History Part 2 ---------------

    This is Part Two in the history of FidoNet. It turned out that the
    original FIDOHIST.DOC (now called FIDOHIST.DC1,  or just "Part One")
    was useful,  and many people read it.  Unfortunately, by  the  time
    everyone read it,  it became totally  obsolete.  Oh well. Here is Part
    Two.
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 19                  12 Mar 2001


    FIDOHIST.DOC covered the early history of FidoNet, why it was done,
    how it was done,  and the reasons for the organization and obscure
    rituals surrounding node numbers.  If you haven't read it  yet,  I
    suggest you do now,  because I'll probably  refer  to things that
    won't make any sense otherwise.

    The  original  FidoNet was organized  very  simply;  each FidoNet
    system (each node) had a number that served like a phone number,
    uniquely identifying it.  The NODELIST, generated by the folks  in St.
    Louis that had all FidoNet nodes in  it,  contains information on all
    known FidoNet systems. Every system in FidoNet had a current copy of
    the NODELIST, which served as the directory of systems.

    (In the interests of brevity I'm leaving out huge amounts of
    information; I hope you have read FIODHIST.DOC by now ...)

    FidoNet  has  been growing steadily since it  started  by accident in
    May 84 or so.  The node list continued to get out  of hand;  the
    original  FIDOHIST.DOC  was written to try  and  help smooth things
    out.  It is impossible to overemphasize the  amount of  work involved
    in keeping the node list  accurate.  Basically, the  guys in St. Louis
    were keeping track of hundreds of FidoNet systems in Boston, Los
    Angeles, London, Stockholm and Sweden, and publishing  the  results
    weekly.  There has never  been  such  a comprehensive  and  accurate
    list  of  bulletin  board   systems generated.

    We  talked  for many months as to how we  could  possibly find  a
    solution to the many problems;  it was at the point where if  a
    solution was not found in a few months (by Aug.  85 or  so) that
    FidoNet would collapse due to the sheer weight of it's  node list.

    The newsletter,  FidoNews, was, and still is, an integral part  of the
    process of FidoNet.  FidoNews is the only thing that unites all
    FidoNet sysops consistently; please keep up to date on it,  and stock
    it for your users if you have the disk space.  And contribute if you
    can!

    There  were  many constraints on the kind  of  things  we could  do;
    we had no money,  so it had to be done for zero cost. Centralization
    was out,  so obviously localization was  in;  just how  to  do it was
    a total unknown.  We thought of going back  to having  people  in
    different areas handle new  node  requests  in their  area,  but  that
    always generated confusion as to  who  a person  should go to,  how to
    avoid having someone requesting  a node number from different people
    simultaneously, etc etc.

    The  old  method of routing was very different  than  the current
    method,   and  much  more  complex;   instead  of   Fido automatically
    routing to hosts,  each sysop had to specify  (via the  ROUTE.BBS
    file) how all routing was done in the system.  The was  done
    originally by hand,  later by John  Warren's  (102/31) NODELIST
    program.

    Then of course there was the problem that no matter  what we  did,  it
    would not be done overnight.  (ha ha.) It would take many weeks at the
    least, possibly months, so that whatever we did had to be compatible
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 20                  12 Mar 2001


    with the old method as well.

    We  went through probably hundreds of ideas in  the  next few  months,
    some possibly useful,  some insane.  Eventually the insanity boiled
    down to a pretty workable system.  We chatted  by FidoNet and by voice
    telephone. Eventually, we settled on the two part  number scheme, like
    the phone company does with area codes and  exchanges.  It
    accommodated backwards compatibility (you  can keep  your  present
    node number) and the new  "area  code"  (net number)  could be added
    into an existing field that had been  set to zero. (This is why
    everyone was originally part of net #1).


    When  a fortunate set of circumstances was to bring  Ezra Shapiro  and
    me to St.  Louis to speak to the  McDonnell  Douglas Recreational
    Computer Club on XXXX 11th,  we planned ahead for a national  FidoNet
    sysops meeting that  weekend.  Ken  and  Sally Kaplan  were  kind
    enough to tolerate having all of us  in  their living room.

    The  people  who  showed  up were (need  that  list)  The meeting
    lasted ten continuous hours;  it was the most  productive meeting I
    (and most others) had attended.  When we were done,  we had basically
    the whole thing layed out in every detail.

    We  stuck  with the area code business (now known as  net and  region
    numbers) and worked out how to break things  up  into regions  and
    nets.  It was just one of those rare but  fortunate events;  during
    the morning things went "normally",  but in  the afternoon solutions
    fell into place one by one,  so that by  late afternoon  we had the
    entire picture laid out in black and white. Two  or three months of
    brainstorming just flowed  smoothly  into place in one afternoon ...

    What we had done was exactly what we have now,  though we changed the
    name  of  "Admin"  to  "Region",   and  added  the "alternate" node
    and net numbers. (We still seem to be stuck with that  terrible  and
    inaccurate word,  "manager".  Any  ideas?)  I previously  had a buggy
    test hack running using area  codes,  and the week after the meeting
    it was made to conform to what we  had talked about that Saturday.

    When  version 10C was done,  it accomplished more or less everything
    we wanted,  but it sure did take a long time.  10C was probably the
    single largest change ever made to Fido/FidoNet, and the most
    thoroughly tested version.  At 10M, there are STILL bugs left from
    that early version, in spite of the testing.

    Once the testing got serious, and it looked like we had a shippable
    version,  St.  Louis froze the node list,  and  started slicing it
    into pieces,  to give to the soon-to-be net and region managers. (That
    word again.) This caused a tremendous amount of trouble for would-be
    sysops;  not only was it difficult enough to figure out how on earth
    to get a node number,  once they did they were  told  node  numbers
    weren't  being  given  out  just  yet. Explaining why was even harder,
    since FIDOHIST.DC2 (ahem) wasn't written yet.  (I have to agree,  this
    thing is a little bit late) It  was a typical case of those who
    already knew  were  informed constantly  of  updates,  but thee in the
    dark had a  hard  time. Things   were  published  fairly  regularly
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 21                  12 Mar 2001


    (am  I   remembering "conveniently" or "accurately" on this part?)


    Eventually,  10C was released,  and seemed to work fairly well,
    ignoring all the small scale disasters due to bugs, etc. We couldn't
    just swap over to the new area code business until very close to 100%
    of all Fidos were using the new version.  This  was (for me) an
    excruciating period,  basically a "hurry up and wait" situation. There
    had not been a node list release for a month or two,  and  for all
    practical purposes it looked like FidoNet  had halted ...

    Finally,  on  June 12th,  we all swapped over to the  new system; that
    afternoon,  sysops were to set their net number (it had  been "1" for
    backwards compatibility),  copy in the new node list issued just for
    this occasion,  and go. I assumed the result was going to be perpetual
    chaos,  bringing about the collapse  of FidoNet.  Almost  the exact
    opposite was true;  things went  very smoothly  (yes,  there were
    problems,  but when you consider that FidoNet consists of
    microcomputers owned by almost 300 people who had never even talked to
    each other ...)

    Within  a month or so,just about every Fido  had  swapped over  to the
    area code,  or net/node architecture.  With  a  few exceptions, things
    went very smoothly.  No one was more surprised than pessimistic I.  At
    this time, August, I don't think there is a single system still using
    the old node number method.

    This  is  all well and fine as far as the software  goes, but  it made
    a mess for new sysops.  For us sysops who have  been around  for a
    while,  there was no great problem,  as we saw  the changes happen one
    by one.  However,  new sysops frequently  came out  of  the  blue;
    armed with a diskette  full  of  code,  they attempted to set up a
    FidoNet node.

    Actually,  I  don't  understand how anyone does  it.  The information
    needed is not recorded in any place that a non  sysop could find.  On
    top of that,  most of it is now totally wrong! If you follow the
    original instructions,  it said "call Fido #1 ..." if you found a real
    antique, or "call Fido #51 ..." if it is more current.  Of course now
    it tells you to find your region manager. "Region manager???" Well, a
    list of region managers was published in FidoNews,  but unless you
    read FidoNews,  how does anyone ever find out? I'll probably never
    know.


    ANYWAYS  ...  the original reason for all the changes was to
    DECENTRALIZE FidoNet.  It just wasn't possible for Ken  Kaplan to keep
    accurate,  up to date information on every Fido in the US and  Europe.
    The decentralization has been more or less a  total success.  The
    number  of  problem  introduced  were  negligible compared  to the
    problems solved,  and even most new problems are by this time solved.

    It  is  interesting  to note that with  the  hundreds  of systems
    there  are  today,  the national FidoNet  hour  is  less crowded than
    it was when there were only 50 nodes.

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 22                  12 Mar 2001


    Please,  keep in mind that no one has done anything  like this before,
    we are all winging it,  and learning (hopefully) as we go.  Please be
    patient with problems, none of us is paid to do this,  and  it is more
    and more work as time goes on.  Somehow it seems to all get done ...

    HOW TO GET A NODE NUMBER AND ALL THAT

    20 August 1985

    This  is  by necessity a very general idea  of  how  it's done,  and
    you were warned earlier that this may be obsolete this very minute;
    with that, here's the "current" process for starting up a new FidoNet
    node.

    You can of course skip all or part of this if you've done this before;
    if  you haven't,  well,  be prepared for a lot  of searching and
    asking questions.


    Of course,  you need to have your Fido BBS system running first.  It's
    probably best that you play with it for a while, and get some
    experience with how it all works,  and whether you  have the patience
    to run a BBS.  It can get exasperating, and you will never find time
    to use the computer ever again.

    Obtain the most recent copy of the nodelist possible; this may take
    some searching.  If you get totally lost, you can always contact  Fido
    125/1 or Fido 100/51;  though these are very  busy systems,  they both
    usually have the very latest of anything, and can direct you to the
    right place.

    The  big problem here is to find out if you are in a  net or not,  and
    if not,  then who your region manager is. If you are in  a  large city
    (Los Angeles,  Cincinnati,  etc) then  there  is probably a net in
    your area.  Look through the node list (use the N)odebook command in
    Fido,  or a text editor) for the right  area code or city.

    If  there is no net in your area,  then you are part of a region. This
    is a little harder,  because regions are large, and sometimes cover
    many states.  Look at all the regions in the node list, you should
    find a region that fits you.

    Once you find this, you have to contact the net or region manager to
    get your node number. Exactly how this is done depends on  who the
    manager is,  and how sticky they are fir  details.  A near  universal
    requirement is that you send  your  request  via FidoNet,  not  by
    manually;  this  isn't done to  make  you  life difficult,  but  to
    ensure  that your system is  really  working right. IF you manage to
    get a FidoNet message to the manager, its usually safe to assume that
    you're system is working OK.  If  you get a reply in return, then you
    know both directions work.

    It  is usually each sysops' responsibility to go get  the latest
    nodelist and newsletters;  they are not distributed to all systems
    because of the expense.  (Though,  I'm trying to get them distributed
    to more places than they are now, it's sometimes very difficult to get
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 23                  12 Mar 2001


    a copy of the nodelist!)

    Again, read the fidonet newsletter regularly; it is about the  only
    way  to  stay in contact with the  rest  of  the  net. Programs,
    problems, services, bugs and interesting announcements can  always be
    found there.  FidoNews articles don't come out  of thin air;  send in
    anything you think might be of interest.  They don't have to be
    lifetime masterpieces, or even well written.

    Please remember the entire network is made of the sysops; there is no
    central location from which good things come, the net consists
    entirely of the sysops and their contributions.  If you don't do it,
    chances are no one else will!

    Tom Jennings 20 Aug 85



    Ken KaplanFido 100/51314/432-4129 Tom JenningsFido 125/1415/864-1418
    Ben BakerFido 100/10314/234-1462

                         ------------ End --------------


    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 24                  12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                                 RECIPES
    =================================================================

    By: Kevin Jcjd Symons
    To: All
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
         Title: Red Beans & Rice
    Categories: Newsgroups, Cast Iron, Vegetarian
      Servings: 12

        1/2 lb kidney beans -- dry
        1/2 lb pinto beans
          4 c  water
          4 c  chicken broth
          2    cloves garlic
          2 ea bay leaves, whole
         16 oz tomatoes, canned -- pureed
          4 oz pimentos -- drained
          1 lg green pepper -- chopped
          1 lg red pepper -- chopped
          1 lg red onion -- chopped
          1 lg onion -- chopped
          1 c  celery -- chopped
          4 oz green chilies
        1/4 c  fresh parsley -- chopped
          1 TB vinegar
          1 ts salt
          1 ts paprika
        1/2 ts red pepper flakes
        1/2 ts cumin
        1/2 ts hot pepper sauce

    Rinse beans. Place in a dutch oven with water.  Bring to a boil,
    simmer 2 minutes.  Remove from heat.  Cover and let stand 1 hour.
    Drain and rinse beans.

    Return beans to dutch oven with broth, garlic and bay leaves; bring to
    a boil.  Reduce heat; cover and simmer 1 1/2 hours.   Stir in
    remaining ingredients.  Cover and simmer 1 hour or until beans and
    vegetables are tender.  Remove bay leaves.

    Source:  "Taste of Home Magazine"
    Copyright:  "www.soar.com"
    Yield:  "1 1/3 cups"
    Recipe By     :Charles Moffat
    U/L March 2001 - From George Reinier <[email protected]>

    --- FLAME v2.0/b * Origin: Braintap BBS Adelaide Oz, Internet UUCP
    +61-8-8239-0497 (3:800/449)

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    By: Steve Quarrella
    To: Warren Bonner
    Re: Fidonews Submission - Recipe
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 25                  12 Mar 2001


    Since Carol is busy providing recipes, here's one from the bowels of
    that magnificent thing of ours, the glorious cesspool known as
    HOLYSMOKE.  Enjoy:

    KITTY LITTER CAKE

      1 spice or German chocolate cake mix
      1 white cake mix
      1 large pkg vanilla instant pudding mix
      1 pkg vanilla sandwich cookies
      Green food coloring
      12 small Tootsie Rolls
      1 new (and definitely unused) kitty litter pan
      1 new plastic kitty litter pan liner
      1 new Pooper Scooper


    Prepare cake mixes and bake according to directions (any size pans).

    Prepare pudding mix and chill until ready to assemble.

    Crumble white sandwich cookies in small batches in food processor,
    scraping often. Set aside all but about 1/4 cup.

    To the 1/4 cup cookie crumbs, add a few drops green food coloring and
    mix using a fork or shake in a jar.

    When cakes are cooled to room temperature, crumble into a large bowl.
    Toss with half the remaining white cookie crumbs and the chilled
    pudding. (Mix in just enough of the pudding to moisten it. You don't
    want it soggy. Combine gently).

    Line new, clean kitty litter box.

    Put mixture into litter box.

    Put three unwrapped Tootsie rolls in a microwave safe dish and heat
    until soft and pliable.  Shape ends so they are no longer blunt,
    curving slightly. Repeat with 3 more Tootsie rolls and bury in
    mixture.

    Sprinkle the other half of cookie crumbs over top.  Scatter the green
    cookie crumbs lightly over the top. (This is supposed to look like the
    chlorophyll in kitty litter.)

    Heat 3 Tootsie Rolls in the microwave until almost melted. Scrape them
    on top of the cake; sprinkle with cookie crumbs.

    Spread remaining Tootsie Rolls over the top; take one and heat until
    pliable, hang it over the side of the kitty litter box, sprinkling it
    lightly with cookie crumbs.

    Place the box on a newspaper and sprinkle a few of the cookie crumbs
    around. Serve with a new pooper scooper.

                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 26                  12 Mar 2001


    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 27                  12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                                GET EMAIL
    =================================================================


    Sun 11 Mar 01  1:54p
    By: David Gonzalez
    To: All
    Re: I'm back but a little bad
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi ya there All!

    I want this on the next snooze Mr Bonner pleas :(

    Well it may be rare for you to see me back again and you may be asking
    what's going on with this guy but i had a horrible time these days.
    First my 4gb Hard Drive crashed after backing up everything to CDs and
    now i'm working with my back up machine but it's a shit it has only
    256Mb HD and i can't save too many msgs I've too purge day by day.

    Well but my misery is not the reason of this msg i want to tell you
    that our Z4C is going off-line as i've told you before he's tired and
    he's had some trouble and he says he can keep on maintaining Z4.

    This episode is very sad cause Luis had been around here for some time
    now and i remember happily when i asked him via 2:341/12 who's DOWN
    too the petition for my node number and then i received the well known
    4:93/0, 4:930/0 and 1 which i proudly still own and after that it was
    a continuos contact between both of us, cause he helped me get around
    with FrontDoor, AllFix and FastEcho until i could walk on my own. I
    remember days when i was about to throw everything away and sent my
    CFG files to Luis askin' him to set my programs up and he wisely said
    " What are you learning when you send me your files?, i can set
    everything up but when it crashes and i'm not around how would you fix
    the problem, you have to keep up and try again and again, that's the
    only way you'll learn " :(

    So it's quite a sad thing he's going off-line he's helped lots of
    people in our Zone the best in Fido ;). Now the guy in charge of the
    GateWays and all the routing and stuff here is this Zambon guy Renato
    Zambon (4:801/161) i truly hope he can keep up with this job 'cause
    personally i was the one who wanted that mission but 'cause i'm new
    around i wasn't even heard, but well many if not always i her more
    from people and talk with more people from Z1, 2 but never with my own
    people.

    I ask again What's going on here in Zone 4???...

    Anyway i want all of you those ones of us who knew LUIS MANTEROLA and
    those of you who've never even heard from him, let's ALL give him a
    nice Good-Bye but temporally 'cause i personally expect to still
    contact and talk to him. ANd remember the song "A part of my heart
    dies when i say Good Bye".

    En Buena Hora Luis |'-((

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 28                  12 Mar 2001


    ------------------------------Spanish Version------------------------

    Bien chicos debe ser raro para ustedes oir de mi y se preguntaran que
    pasa con la constancia de este tipo, pero he tenido unos dias
    horribles. 1ro mi disco duro de 4GB se jodio cuando hice la copia de
    seguridad de todo lo que tenia alli a CDs. ahora estoy trabajando en
    mi maquina de remplazo pero esto es una mierda porque solo tiene 256
    MBs de HDD y no puedo guardar ni ficheros ni muchso mensajes, tengo
    que estar purgando y borrando mensajes porque sino Imaginense que
    pasaria.

    Bien pero el motivo de este mensaje no es para contarles sobre mi
    desgracia sino para decirl;es a los que aun no lo sepan que nuestro
    Coordinador de Zona 4 Luis Manterola va a dar de Baja su nodo porque
    esta algo cansado y porque ha tenido ciertos problemas personales y no
    puede mantener la zona como es debido.

    Este espisodio es bastante triste especialmente para mi porque Luis ha
    estado aqui por algun tiempo y yo personalmente y felizmente recuerdo
    cuando le pedi via Enrique Lopez 2:341/12 "Tambien de Baja" mi numero
    de nodo y me fueron asignados los ya bien conocidos por ustedes
    4:93/0, 4:930/0 y 1 los que orgul;losa y solitariamente mantengo aun.
    Despues de esto fue un continuo contacto entre el y yo porque el me
    ayudo y dio animos para conigurar el FrontDoor, el AllFix, FastEcho
    etc hasta que yo pude soltar su mano y caminar solo. Recuerdo
    ewspecialmente cuando le enviaba mis archivos de configuracion y el me
    decia " Que vas a aprender si yo te configuro el programa, poruqe yo
    lo puedo hacer pero si falla, como vas tu a resolver el problema?,
    debes esforzarte y trtar sin desistir hasta que lo logres ". |'-(((

    En fin es algo bastante triste y pues Luis Dejara de funcionar el 1 de
    Abril. Luis mientras estuvo por estos lados ayudo a mucha gente en
    nuetra zona La MEJOR de Fido :). Ahhora el tipo encargado de la zona
    este este tio Zambon, Renato Zambon (4:801/161). Yo dee veras espero
    que el pueda con este trabajo prque personalmente yo era quien queria
    ese trabajo, pero por mi nocedad dentro de Fido ni siquiera fui
    escuchado, pero en fin, yo muchas veces casi la mayoria oigo de
    personas de la Z1, Z2, aveces de la Z3 pero nunca de mi propia gente,
    de la que tengo mas cerca.

    Yo pregunto de Nuevo. QUE PASA CON LA ZONA 4???...

    En todo caso yo quiero que todos nosotros quienes conocimos y
    estimamos a Luis Manterola y aquellos que ni si quiera sabian quien
    era le demos un "En Hora Buena, Que DIOS te Bendiga y sigue adelante"
    y recuierden esa cancion que dice " Una PArte de mi muere cuando digo
    Adios "

    En Hora Buena Luis, sigue Adelante :-(((

    Bye to all and Luis especially :)

    Best Regards David! Fidonet..: 4:930/1, 4:930/0, 4:93/0 e-mail...:
    [email protected]          Home Page: hyttp://skynetbbs.8m.com
    Telnet...: skynetbbs.thebbs.org * Origin: SkyNet BBS Telnet:
    skynetbbs.thebbs.org (FidoNet 4:930/1)
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 29                  12 Mar 2001


                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 30                  12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                                  HUMOR
    =================================================================

    From Bob Crown
                         "Safe Sex"

    A teenage boy and his grandfather go fishing one day. While fishing,
    the old man starts talking about how times have changed. The young man
    picks up on this and starts talking about the various problems and
    diseases going around.

    Teen says, "Grandpa, they didn't have a whole lot of problems with all
    these diseases when you were young did they?"

    Grandpa replies, "Nope."

    Teen says, "Well, what did you guys use for safe sex?"

    Grandpa replies, "A wedding ring."

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                     "Mary and Her Hubby"

    Mary was married to a male chauvinist. They both worked full time, but
    he never did anything around the house and certainly not any
    housework. That, he declared, was woman's work.

    But one evening Mary arrived home from work to find the children
    bathed, a load of wash in the washing machine and another in the
    dryer, dinner on the stove and a beautifully set table, complete with
    flowers.

    She was astonished, and she immediately wanted to know what was going
    on. It turned out that Charley, her husband, had read a magazine
    article that suggested working wives would be more romantically
    inclined if they weren't so tired from having to do all the housework
    in addition to holding down a full-time job.

    The next day, she couldn't wait to tell her friends in the office.
    "How did it work out?" they asked.

    "Well, it was a great dinner," Mary said. "Charley even cleaned up,
    helped the kids with their homework, folded the laundry and put
    everything away."

    "But what about afterward?" her friends wanted to know.

    "It didn't work out," Mary said. "Charley was too tired."

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    A man came into the cathedral (church) on crutches.  He stopped in
    front of the holy water, put some on both legs, and then threw away
    his crutches.
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 31                  12 Mar 2001


    An alter boy witnessed the scene and then ran into the rectory to tell
    the priest what he'd just seen.

    "Son, you've just witnessed a miracle," the priest said. "Tell me
    where is this man now?"

    "Flat on his ass over in the holy water," said the boy.

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The American tourist stood staring at the highland sentry standing
    guard outside Edinburgh Castle.

    After a few minutes she went up to the sentry and asked 'I've always
    wanted to find out what's worn under the kilt'.

    The sentry replied: "There is nothing worn, Ma'am, its all in perfect
    working order".

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    From: Robert Retsky
                               Inventions

    "I would like you to promote my new invention. It's a
    folding bottle. I call it a fottle."
    "It'll never sell. The name is silly."

    How about my second invention? It's a folding carton.
    I call it a farton."
    "It'll never sell. The name is offensive."

    "You're going to absolutely hate my folding bucket."

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 32                  12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                                 NOTICES
    =================================================================


    #1 From Janis Kracht, Z1C
    Hi Warren,

    I had to change the user name for "fidonews" to "Fido News" with the
    same password, author.

    I will also have to change the netmail receiver to two words to match
    the user name, Fido News at 1:2320/38. Hope I'm not to late for the
    press :)

    Here's the changed text:

      To send an article crash netmail attach, address the message to
      Fido News@1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778).

      Use Fido News@1:2320/100 (filegate.net or 64.38.85.9) for
      telnet or binkp, or normal bbs login.

      To log on to <<Prism's bbs and upload, use
      username:  fido news
      password:  author
      User 'fido news' will have upload priviliges on first login (no
      verification needed).

    I could change the name fido news to anything else you'd rather
    I use, it just has to be two words :(

    Take care,
    Janis
    ===============================================================
    International coordinator, IFDC FileGate Project (service mark)
    http://www.filegate.net/              Mail: [email protected]
    ftp/telnet: filegate.net                         icq: 25251567
    FidoNet:    1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778)            Mandrake 7.2
    ===============================================================
    ===============================================================
    International coordinator, IFDC FileGate Project (service mark)
    http://www.filegate.net/              Mail: [email protected]
    ftp/telnet: filegate.net                         icq: 25251567
    FidoNet:    1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778)            Mandrake 7.2
    ===============================================================
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    By: Warren Bonner
    To: All
    Re: Moderator Rules as repeatedly requested
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Revision #1.1:
                   *** Paragraphs #2 & #12 ***

              This is the International Fidonews Echo.
                These rules all add up to "Be Nice".
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 33                  12 Mar 2001


                            -1-
    Fidonews conference is for all persons interested in the Fido family,
    bring their questions, answers and ideas for the future development of
    Fidonet in all Zones. The fidonet is dedicated to the enjoyment of all
    seeking a hobby to communicate and assist in the movement of echo and
    netmails. Fidonews develops the topics posted in its echo so that a
    global issue weekly may reach the thousands that are not connected to
    the Fidonews echo per se.

                            -2-
    The International Fidonews Echo may be gated to all Zones, Regions and
    nets without asking the moderator's permission.  The editor/moderator
    and Fido-Robot is in your nodelist AND in the Banner of the Fidonews.

    To send an article CRASH netmail FILE ATTACHED, address message to:

    Fido News@1:2320/38  (1-502-245-6778)

    Use Fido News@1:2320/100 (filegate.net or 64.38.85.9) for telnet and
    binkp, or normal BBS log in.

    To log on to <<Prism's BBS and upload use:
    Username: fido news
    Password: author
    User "fido news" will have upload privledges on first log in, no
    verification needed.

                            -3-
    Because some folks do not believe my simple rule, "Be nice", isn't in
    itself sufficient instructions for governing this echo, I have
    developed this document to hopefully allay all fears of misuse by any
    patron or the moderator.

                            -4-
    Topics may be anything of interest to the broad population of Fidonet.
    The discussion of the benefits of sysop developed programs and
    technologies is encouraged.  Ways to move mail and ideas to keep lines
    of communications open are encouraged.

                            -5-
    DON'T Flame anyone, just tap the next key if you will please.

                            -6-
    N0 profanity.

                            -7-
    Avoid excessive quoting. Quote only enough of the message so that you
    are understood in your reply.

                            -8-
    Don't forget to change the subject line when it no longer applies.

                            -9-
    The official language of the echo is English. Please do not post
    messages or articles in any other language.  All bi-lingual articles
    are welcome submitted to the editor 1:1/23. Be sure to include an
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 34                  12 Mar 2001


    English translation in the same message.  If you cannot route a file
    attachment, then put it into the message text body. If it is too long,
    more than 66 lines, for one message, send two or more messages.  I can
    edit them all into one article in the Makenews. Please keep lines
    to no more than 70 characters. No left margine please.

                            -10-
    ONLY the Moderator or co-moderator will address off-topic traffic.

                            -11-
    NO Private Messages please; that seems to derail the continuity and
    purpose of the echo.

                            -12-
    The change in moderators will be done in accordance with past
    tradition. The moderator will name a successor when he retires.

    If an emergency incapacitates the editor, the Z1C will choose a
    replacement, if no designated co-moderator or named successor are
    available at that time for what ever reason.

    The reason the Z1C will perform this function is because Fidonews is
    a entity unto itself with registered Logo and Copyright by Tom
    Jennings who resides in Zone One, San Francisco, Ca.

    These Guidelines are subject to change at any time.
    The moderator's word is the final authority.

               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~



    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 35                  12 Mar 2001


    =================================================================
                           FIDONET BY INTERNET
    =================================================================

    ------------------------------------------------------
    *Fidonet-related sites

                      . -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
                      |    FIDONET-RELATED SITES    |
                      ` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
                         Last update:  March 3, 2001

    FidoNet
    Homepage:     http://www.fidonet.org
    FidoNews:     http://www.fidonews.org   [HTML]
                  ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
    Echolist:     http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
    Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
    SDS Files:    http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
    FTSC page:    http://www.ftsc.org/
    General:      http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

    Zone 1:       http://www.z1.fidonet.org
      Region 10:  http://www.r10.org
        Net 102   http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
        Net 103:  http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
        Net 203:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
      Region 11:  http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
       Net 2410:  http://www.vector.11.com/net2410/
      Region 12:  http://sparkys.dyndns.org
      Region 13:  http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
        Net 264:  http://www.net264.org/
        Net 275:  http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
      Region 14:  http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
        Net 282:  http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
      Region 15:  <vacant>
      Region 16:  <vacant>
      Region 17:  http://www.region17.net
        Net 140:  http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
      Region 18:  http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

      Region 19:  http://bise.tzo.com/r19
        Net 124:  http://www.dallasinet.com/net124
                  http://texoma.net/~flv
        Net 130:  http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
        Net 393:  http://www.chatter.com/~wb/

    Zone 2:       http://www.z2.fidonet.org
      Region 20:  http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
      Region 23:  http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

      Region 24:  http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
                  http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
        Fido-IP:  http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
      Region 25:  http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
      Region 26:  http://www.nemesis.ie
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 36                  12 Mar 2001


         REC 26:  http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
      Region 27:  http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
      Region 29:  http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/  (French)
                  http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
      Region 30:  http://www.fidonet.ch  (German)
    ? Region 33:  http://www.fidoitalia.net  (Italian)
      Region 34:  http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm  (Spanish)
          REC34:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
      Region 36:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
      Region 38:  http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
      Region 41:  http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
      Region 42:  http://www.fido.cz
    !    Net422:  http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
      Region 50:  http://www.fido7.com/  (Russian)
       Net 5010:  http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/  (Russian)
       Net 5015:  http://www.fido.nnov.ru/  (Russian)
       Net 5028:  HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/
       Net 5030:  http://kenga.ru/fido/  (Russian & English)
       Net 5049:  http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org  (English/Russian)
       Net 5074:  http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
    ??  Net 5085:  http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

    Zone 3:       http://www.z3.fidonet.org

    Zone 4:
      Region 80:  http://fidobrasil.8m.com  (Portuguese)
      Region 90:
        Net 904:  http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

    Zone 5:       http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

    Zone 6:       http://www.z6.fidonet.org
      Region 65:  http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
                  (Chinese)


                         Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

    See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

    a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
    address. The email is translated as follows
    [email protected] will automatically route to the
    appropriate individual's email.  Anyone in this list will
    also receive routed notice of this feature.  In my case, it
    would still be [email protected], but you get the idea.

    Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
    latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
    time between when the message is received, and when it is
    sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
    defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
    immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
    after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.

               v-email flag [email protected]
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 37                  12 Mar 2001


               | email address or
    Node#      | Operator          | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
               |                   |                |latency|
    -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
    Zone 1     |                   |                |       |
      10/3     | Brenda Donovan    | FTP,UUE,BinkP  | 384K,30| n/c
      10/345   @ Todd Cochrane     | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,!  | n/c
      13/25    @ Jim Balcom        | FTP            | 56k   | $20mo.
      18/500   @ Ross Cassell      | FTP, BinkP     |128K+,!| n/c
     103/5     @ Mark Luetger      | BinkP          | 384k,!| n/c
     103/153   @ Michael Box       | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
     103/301   @ Joe Jared         | BinkP,FTP,NFS  | 384k,!| n/c
     103/401   @ Warren Bonner     | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
     105/8     | Russ Johnson      | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k  | n/c
     105/72    @ Larry James       | FTP, BinkP     | aDSL  | $50/yr
     106/1     @ Steve Loupe       | BinkP, FTP     | 128k  | ???
     106/6018  | Lawrence Garvin   | FTP, VMoT      | aDSL,60| n/c
     107/453   @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
     140/1     @ Bob Seaborn       | FTP,BinkP      | T3,30 | $5/$16
     167/133   | Stephen Monteith  | BinkP          | 128k+ | n/c
     211/417   @ Korombos          | BinkP,UUE,FTP  | T1    | n/c
     220/10    | [email protected] |BinkP,FTP,UUE|1.5M+ | n/c
     218/109   @ Matt Munson       | BinkP,UUE      | 33.6k | n/c
     246/160   @ Mason Vye         | FTP, UUE       | 56K   | n/c
     249/116   | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE    |ADSL,60 | n/c
     280/169   | Brian Greenstreet | FTP            | 33.6  | $2mo.
     342/3     @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP      | 128K+ | n/c
     395/670   | Arthur Stark      | BinkD,FTP      | CABLE | n/c
     379/1     @ Dale Ross         | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
     396/45    | Marc Lewis        | UUE            | 33.6  | $26/yr
     396/48    | Ben Ritchey       | UUE:BFDS       | 33.6k | n/c
    2604/104   @ Jim Mclaughlin    | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 33.6  | $1mo
    2613/404   @ David Moufarrege  | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
    2624/306   | David Calafrancesco  | VMoT        | 33.6  | n/c
    3407/4     @ [email protected] | UUE,FTP            | 28.8  | n/c
    3632/84    | Robert Todd    |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
    3651/9     @ Jerry Gause       | FTP,VMoT       | 33.6  | $3/$6
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Zone 2     |
      20/11    | Henrik Lindhe     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      31/1     | Gabriel Plutzar   | BinkP          | T1+   | n/c
     203/600   | Mikael Karlsson   | UUE            | 64k   | n/c
     221/360   @ Tommi Koivula     | BinkP,UUE      | ???   | n/c
     236/205   @ Michael Kaaber    | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     246/2098  | Volker Imre       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     280/1601  @ Jeroen VanDeLeur  | FTP,UUE        | 64k   | n/c
     292/620   | Eddy Missoul      | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k   |N/C
     292/624   | Steven Leeman     | UUE          | 64k     | N/C
     292/907   | Bart Verhaeghe    | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K   | n/c
     292/2003  | Eric Vaneberck    | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
     301/1     | Peter Witschi     | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
     332/807   | Roberto Mascolo   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     335/535   @ Mario Mure        | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k   | n/c
     335/610   | Gino Lucrezi      | UUE            | 33.6  | n/c
     344/201   | Julio Garcia      | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     346/3     @ Carlos Navarro    | UUE            | ???   | n/c
    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 38                  12 Mar 2001


     382/100   | Sinisa Burina     | BinkP,ifcico   | ???   | n/c
     406/555   | Ofir Michaeli &   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     406/555   | Marius Kaizerman  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     423/81    | Milos Bajer       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     465/204   | Va Milushnikov    | BinkP          | 33.6k | n/c
     469/84    | Max Masyutin      | VMoT           | 256k  | n/c
     480/112   | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k  | n/c
     550/4077  | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE            | ----- | n/c
    2411/413   @ Dennis Dittrich   | UUE,BinkP      | 64k   | n/c
    2446/301   @ Lothar Behet      | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K   | n/c
    2474/275   | Christian Emig    | UUE            | 64k   | unkn
    5030/115   | Andrey Podkolzin  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
    5100/8     | Egons Bush        | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
    5020/1159  | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE          | 33.6  | n/c
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Zone 3
     633/260   @ Malcolm Miles     | FTP,BinkP      | 64K   | n/c
     640/954   | Rick Van Ruth     | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
     774/605   @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Zone 4
     801/161   @ Renato Zambon     | UUE            | 33.6  |n/c
     905/100   | Fabian Gervan     | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k  | n/c
     902/18    | Javier Tejedor    | UUE            | 33,6  | n/c

    --
    * FTP   = Internet File Transfer Protocol
    * VMoT  = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
    * UUE   = uuencode<->email type transfers
    * BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
    * NFS   = Linux Networking
    ----------------------------------------------
    Fidonet oriented news servers

    news.osirusoft.com
    news.tardis.net

    Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

    room #fidonet  5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
    irc.osirusoft.com  (Peers wanted)

    ----------------------------------------------

    Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
    Joe Jared, 1:103/301, [email protected].  All email addresses
    here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
    obtaining a feed.  Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
    most especially, email addressed to [email protected]
    will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
    stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com




    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 39                  12 Mar 2001


    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 40                  12 Mar 2001


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    FIDONEWS 18-11               Page 41                  12 Mar 2001


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