F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 52 18 Dec 2000

F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 52 18 Dec 2000
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | 1-714-639-0377 1:1/23 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: Warren Bonner |
| | (*) | \ )) | [email protected] |
| |__U__| / \// | [email protected] |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
ZONE ONE COORDINATOR ELECTION DISCUSSIONS THIS WEEK

Table of Contents
1. CHAT WITH EDITOR ......................................... 1
*****EDITORIAL***** ...................................... 1
2. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR .................................... 2
*****ECHO LETTERS***** ................................... 2
3. ARTICLES ................................................. 10
-=+ARTICLES+=- ........................................... 10
4. COLUMNS .................................................. 13
-+=+OL"WDB's COLUMN+=+- .................................. 13
5. FIDO NAVAL STORIES ....................................... 15
-++Fido Navy Sysops++- ................................... 15
6. RECIPES .................................................. 16
>>>>>Fidonet Chef's Recipes<<<<< ......................... 16
7. POET'S CORNER ............................................ 19
[[[POEMS]]] .............................................. 19
8. COMIX IN ASCII ........................................... 20
COMIX ASCII .............................................. 20
9. WANTED ................................................... 21
*****WANTED***** ......................................... 21
10. NOTICES ................................................. 22
*****NOTICES***** ........................................ 22
11. FIDONET BY INTERNET ..................................... 25
12. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .................................... 30
FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 30
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 1 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
CHAT WITH EDITOR
=================================================================

Hello to all Fidoland, well we f-i-n-a-l-l-y got past the USA
Presidential election this week... thank God! Now, perhaps, we can
get some resolution to the Zone one election shortly. <G> They both
have dominated the scene in North America long enough IMHO. Next
issue of the Snooze should have the announcement of the elected Z1C,
barring a run-off. Fido-is-a-changing! We all need to pitch in to
help develop the best possible changes for our survival in this high
tech communication network. If we don't, there is a possibility that
the ICQ, IRC, AOL, MS, Netscape "messengers" will steal our client
users. When they get enough members, you can expect they will almost
simultaneously incorporate fees per month, maybe even per message. So
hang tight, the battle is just begun in that arena...

Speaking of battles, it is hard to understand sometimes how things
like rules for an election can get so screwed up in interpretation.
below is a good example and explanation by Carol:

(17651) Fri 15 Dec 00 6:39p
By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: Lesley-Dee Dylan
Re: Re: Changing FidoNet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Quoting Lesley-Dee Dylan from a message to Jerry Schwartz ***

JS> Doing this when an election is actually pending is much
JS> more troublesome, and that's why unanimous agreement
JS> was appropriate in this case.

LD> THERE WAS NO UNANIMOUS AGREEMENT!

You missed something there. To have an election that was outside the
^^^^^^^^^^^
requirements of P4, required unanimous agreement, and we didn't get it
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A zone policy may fix it but we cant get one enacted before 5JAN01.
xxcarol

~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 2 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
=================================================================

The debate continues..

By: Jerry Schwartz
To: Darrell Salter
Re: R14 - Let it Alone!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, Darrell...

Dec 11, 2000 at 17:21, Darrell Salter wrote to Jerry Schwartz:

JS> That would certainly be my opinion. A regional policy can't bind
the other RCs.

DS> Where was that opinion when Jim and Dallas thrust P4 on the RCs
and changed this election?

P4 is not a regional policy. I agreed to it when I joined, and every
other sysop who joined since its adoption was supposed to do the same
thing. P4 is binding on everyone, regardless of Region.

I know you don't accept that, but you must surely understand that the
rest of us do. Knowing that we believe P4 to be binding upon us, why
do you insist that we should deny it?

JS> However, either they bind the RC of that Region, or they aren't
binding at all (in my opinion).

DS> Regional policies only affect that Region. They have no place
among the RCC. But that isn't what happened, is it?

DS> 2) If all RCs must agree to sysop-level voting, then _ALL RCs_
must agree to any and all forms of voting, including RC-voting on a
sysop-representational basis. Since R12C is NOT in agreement with the
current election scheme, the current election must not proceed and
must be halted immediately.

JS> Here we part company.

DS> I knew you'd want it both ways. :)

JS> because the situation is not symmetrical

DS> Why isn't it?

JS> and the assertion in your first sentence is neither self-evident
nor supported.

DS> It's very self-evident. If it isn't supported, why?

JS> If one Region's policy can't bind another Region's RC, then
clearly nine Regions' respective policies can't bind the tenth RC; I
think you might agree with that, especially if you stop to think that
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 3 18 Dec 2000

those nine policies might contradict one another.

DS> Exactly. They have no place among the RCC and have no validity as
regards this elecsham.

JS> Where we differ is that, in the absence of any ability for some of
the RCs to unilaterally bind the others, we have to fall back on
whatever is already considered binding on us all: some pre-agreement.

DS> P4? Do all Regions agree to be bound by P4? I don't think so.

JS> All of us, except you, consider P4 to be such a pre-agreement.

DS> Not just me, give your head a shake.

I was referring to the RCs; I haven't heard any of the others renounce
P4.

JS> P4 specifies that the RCs elect the ZC;

DS> I'm well aware of what it says. The fact is that it is non-binding
and irrelevant, has never been Sysop-ratified, and is simply a tool
used by RCs to attempt to force Sysops to conform to their will. This
elecsham is a perfect example of why P4 was tossed out with
yesterday's trash in my Region. This elecsham is another fine example
of P4 being used as a big stick by the RCs to elect yet another ZC
from their ranks with no direct Sysop voice.

JS> but it is silent as to how they make up their minds.

DS> How convenient.

JS> So any number of us could decide to conduct a sysop-level vote
within our respective Regions without any new agreement, policy, or
whatever you wish to call it.

DS> As long as Sysops realize that the RCs are the superior Sysops
that really call the shots.

JS> For that reason, while we could not on the spur of the moment bind
one another to conduct a plebiscite we also could not, on the spur of
the moment, bind one another not to do so - within our own respective
Regions.

DS> You just made my point. P4 is not binding. Why then are we being
forced to have a P4 election instead of a Sysop election?

You say it is not binding. I say it is. Does that make me dishonest?
ignorant? When I joined this organization, I agreed to abide by its
rules. When I joined my current employer, I agreed to abide by its
rules. When I joined a community theater group, I agreed to abide by
its rules.

Did I always agree completely with those rules? No - but I made a
choice: I could either join despite any misgivings I might have, try
to get the rules changed, or leave. I've made different choices under
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 4 18 Dec 2000

different circumstances, depending upon how strong my feelings were
and how much I wanted to join each organization.

Never did I join an organization with the express intent of
disregarding its rules entirely. I have no right to do so. I would no
more join FidoNet and renounce P4 than join the Catholic Church and
renounce canon law. It would make no more sense than declaring myself
to be a bird with the anatomy of a mammal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(17685) Fri 15 Dec 00 9:14p By: Jerry Schwartz To: Darrell Salter Re:
ZC Election Procedures St:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, Darrell...

Dec 11, 2000 at 18:24, Darrell Salter wrote to Jerry Schwartz:

JS> Representative (non-proportional) democracies, such as this one,
are common even among mammals. The European Union, for example, is
currently embroiled in this very issue. The U.S. Senate is structured
this way, as are many of the controlling committees of NGOs and the
United Nations. Organizations as diverse as NATO and Amnesty
International govern themselves without "one man, one vote" in any
literal sense. So whether or not FidoNet should is a legitimate matter
for debate, whether you personally think it should be considered or
not.

DS> The difference of course being that such organizations serve their
members, not the other way around like in Fidonet where the tail wags
the dog.

Not every citizen of the United States believes that the U.N. serves
him or her; that may be true in Canada as well.

JS> Many people do not believe that simpling walking away accomplishes
anything. What did you accomplish, other than to guarantee that none
of the other RCs would thereafter consider anything you said?

DS> Hardly. Ever sat in on a meeting between union reprentatives and
management officials? If you're offended by my style you wouldn't
last 10 seconds with some of those people, on either side. Both sides
are free to get up and walk out if they perceivee the other to
operating in bad faith.

I've rarely heard of any negotiation where the parties disagreed but
did NOT accuse one another of operating in bad faith. I think Hallmark
has cards for that. Saying it doesn't make it so.

JS> Would it have been practical to pick an interim ZC at random from
the nodelist? I don't think so; we would have chosen someone we knew,
someone we knew could handle the job without any learning curve (since
the whole point would have been to make a quick transition), and
someone willing to do the job. Who do you think that would have been?

DS> Dave Hamilton?

JS> There are people complaining now because two of the sitting RCs
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 5 18 Dec 2000

are candidates; can you imagine what the volume level would have been
if either had been appointed interim ZC?

DS> Why select an RC at all?

Does Dave have all of the necessary processing in place for producing
a Diff, folding in the necessary updates from other Zones, and so
forth? I don't, but I've had years of experience with the necessary
tools. On the other hand, there are plenty of NCs who are baffled by
MakeNL, and follow their predecessor's batch files by rote.

JS> You know my opinion of appointing an interim officer who is
forbidden to run (at least in the case where the pool of potential
candidates is small); can you picture the scene if a sitting RC were
interim ZC and also a candidate in the election?

DS> Why select an RC at all? You make it sound like collecting, at
most, 10 files and running MakeNl on them is some big deal.

Well, perhaps I'm a little more dense than most but it took me awhile
to get MakeNL running right at the Region level; in fact, I found a
small glitch in my processing just recently after all this time.

JS> The less nasty alternative was an immediate election.

DS> In my opinion, the only alternative that made sense.

JS>> Despite the opinions of those who said an election could be done
in plenty of time, here we are with a schedule which will barely give
us a new ZC by Christmas eve; and personally, I consider the schedule
just about right. (My rule of thumb, based upon experience, is that
administrative stuff such as our regional echo, the Snews, and the
Diff only move once a week.)

DS> This election could have been over already and done as a direct
Sysop vote. 50% + 1 wins the day. Done deal until next time. Again, no
big deal. Is that what we have? No. We have this gawd-awful sham
instead.

You are ignoring my comment about timing. Regardless of the mechanism,
the timetable would have been about the same give or take a few days.
What we didn't have was time to slug it out over the issue of
Zone-wide voting.

DS> Have you not considered that the very same sysops that are likely
to vote in this RC-level vote could just as easily have voted
directly? Why didn't that happen? Because Jim Cannell didn't like who
his Region voted for last time? Sorry, that's just sick. That the RCs
went along with it is sicker.

See above. I'm quite aware that they could have voted directly; it was
the time that would have been wasted arguing about it that we couldn't
spare.

JS> Remember, we had a firm deadline imposed upon us by David. With
him set to exit right after New Year's Eve, and a new ZC being named
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 6 18 Dec 2000

right before Christmas, there will be a large amount of work to be
done at a time when many people are travelling or otherwise engaged.
If we had delayed the election by futher discussion, or if we had
shortened the schedule, we would have made a bigger mess than we have
now.

DS> Nonsense. If you had started immediately by allowing Sysops to
vote directly to an EC, instead of pissing around, it would have been
over.

JS> If we had bypassed determining the will of the sysops with regard
to the election, you mean? Remember that little feedback session we
went through?

DS> long ago. When I saw that the RCs were going to screw the Sysops I
walked away. You should have too. This kind of shit is the last thing

JS> I disagree, at least for myself. You made a different choice. Just
as it is your right to make a choice that I would not, it is my right
to make a choice that YOU would not. I still believe that I will have
more influence over what comes next than you will, largely because I
did not choose to leave the table.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Jerry Schwartz
To: Dave Hamilton
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, Dave...

Dec 10, 2000 at 09:30, Dave Hamilton wrote to Jerry Schwartz:

JS> Remember, the existing rules allow (even encourage) any RC to
publicly summarize the gist of a discussion, to seek either input or
support; but the condition is that individual opinions not be readily
attributable to individuals (i.e., no quoting).

DH> There is nothing wrong with the idea behind those rules. In fact,
there was nothing inherently wrong with the echo in the first place.

DH> The reason those rules were created was that there was potential
for abuse prior to their existence.

DH> The current argument for revision is that there has been abuse
using them.

I don't agree with your statement there. I'm not sure what you believe
constitutes abuse, but I've heard two major issues: Darrell believes
his actions were misrepresented by the other RCs; and a Zone-wide
plebiscite was proposed and then abandoned.

The latter is a pretty simple case: the RCs considered an idea and
dropped it. The matter was hardly a secret, as everyone seemed to know
with milliseconds.

It's been said that opening the echo wouldn't interfere with the RCC's
deliberations. If that were literally true, then nothing would have
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 7 18 Dec 2000

been different. In any case, I don't consider it "abuse" to consider
an idea and reject it, regardless of the reasons. If you believe it
was abuse to not have a Zone-wide plebiscite, then that's your
opinion; but it wasn't abuse of the echo nor its rules.

Remember, my justification for keeping the echo closed is so that the
RCs can exchange opinions without every trial balloon causing a public
uproar. If there is no public uproar, then there will be no public
influence on the discussion beyond what could occur with the rules as
they are.

If you are advocating for public uproar, with the idea that every time
an RC says something that someone disagrees with they should be
publicly assaulted in Z1C or FN_SYSOP, then we do not see eye to eye.

The former contention, that Darrell's statements were misrepresented,
I simply disagree with. You know what he said, you know what the rest
of us said. He believes that it is not the job of RC12 to do more than
report opinions which he has been asked to pass on; I believe that an
RC should do more than that. He believes that what he did constituted
support for a Zone-wide plebiscite; it did, in a very narrow sense,
but not in the broader sense of trying to win others over to R12's
position.

Quite honestly, since he believes he did exactly what he was supposed
to do and no more, I don't understand why he has been so upset. He
didn't get what he wanted, but that's got to be something he's
experienced before. I don't see any abuse in that.

Regards, Jerry mailto:[email protected]
http://www.writebynight.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Dave Hamilton
To: Jerry Schwartz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DH> The current argument for revision is that there has been abuse
using them.

JS> I don't agree with your statement there. I'm not sure what you
believe constitutes abuse, but I've heard two major issues: Darrell
believes his actions were misrepresented by the other RCs; and a
Zone-wide plebiscite was proposed and then abandoned.

Add RCs claiming Darrell misrepresented his region to the RCC and
misrepresented the RCC to his region. Add Carol's claim that Darrell's
exact quote of Jim Cannell's post re the P4 legality of the election
was false. Add Ross's support for Andrea's claim that R12 and R12C
pushed for a speedy election.

None of these could be verified without access to the echo for posts
and context. All of them were straightened out with that access.

Changing the meaning of someone's post when you paraphrase it is abuse
of the system that permits only paraphrasing when trying to report
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 8 18 Dec 2000

accurately.

JS> If you are advocating for public uproar, with the idea that every
time an RC says something that someone disagrees with they should be
publicly assaulted in Z1C or FN_SYSOP, then we do not see eye to eye.

I am advocating no such thing. When I first proposed the idea, I
suggested that the echo should be read-only and that interested sysops
should clarify anything they want with their own RCs.

If a member of the RCC initiates an issue in a public forum I see no
reason why responses should not be made in the same forum. This is not
related to the privacy of Z1REGCON unless the public statement happens
to be about something whose context includes it.

In every public discussion in which I have participated that involved
R12C I have privately consulted him before forming an opinion. Every
thread.

JS> He believes that it is not the job of RC12 to do more than report
opinions which he has been asked to pass on; I believe that an RC
should do more than that.

Opinions vary. He would get elected in R12; you might not.

JS> He believes that what he did constituted support for a Zone-wide
plebiscite; it did, in a very narrow sense, but not in the broader
sense of trying to win others over to R12's position.

Another person's method and effectiveness may have been different.
Mine would not have been: I would have forwarded the regional
consensus to the RCC in its private echo and debated it with Z1 sysops
in a public echo such as this one where presumably the RCC hangs out.
A different personality may not conflict as much as Darrell's did.
Time will tell.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
(17694) Fri 15 Dec 00 10:45a
By: Jerry Schwartz
To: Warren Bonner
Re: Changing fidonet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, Warren...

Dec 12, 2000 at 12:03, Warren Bonner wrote to Carl Austin Bennett:

WB> Can an "Ad-hoc" committee be formed (seperate from the RCC) by
WB> knowledgable sysops to look over those documents and formulate a
WB> Zone One Policy 1.0 to be ratified by a Sysop vote, so the *C's
WB> have a real ratified policy to work with?

In essence, I think that is what Ross was talking about. The committee
would initially be composed of those who participated in the
appropriate echo, although experience tells us that it would
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 9 18 Dec 2000

ultimately be a relative handful who put together the final draft. (As
Thomas Jefferson said, when the authorship of the Declaration of
Indepence was called into question, "It IS in MY handwriting.")

Regards,
Jerry
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(17695) Fri 15 Dec 00 10:52a
By: Jerry Schwartz
To: Lesley-Dee Dylan
Re: Changing FidoNet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, Lesley-Dee...

Dec 14, 2000 at 01:21, Lesley-Dee Dylan wrote to Jerry Schwartz:

JS> Doing this when an election is actually pending is much
more troublesome, and that's why unanimous agreement
was appropriate in this case.

LD> THERE WAS NO UNANIMOUS AGREEMENT!

LD> You just finished stating that there cannot be an election unless
there is a unanimous agreement amongst the RCs on how it is to be
held. And there WAS NO UNANIMOUS AGREEMENT!

LD> Therefore, there cannot be an election. It is void.

JS> You can take snatches out of context all you want, but that
doesn't make your assertion true. What I said, again and again, is
that in order to impose a NEW set of rules while an election was
imminent it would be appropriate to get unanimous agreement - to the
new set of rules. The existing set of rules, by which we customarily
operate, is P4. It allows the RCs to vote as they see fit. Some of us
see fit to be guided by plebiscites within our respective Regions;
that is in accord with P4. It doesn't require any change, any new law.

You may not feel bound by P4, but you are also not required to vote.
Nobody is making you do anything you don't want to do. You may ignore
the election completely. However, I believe that in due time there
will be a nodelist listing someone other than David Moufarrege as Z1C.
What you will do when that happens, I have no idea.

Regards,
Jerry
~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 10 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================

More on our "Saviours".
By gary gilmore, 1:2410/400

I would like to correct something I said last week. I said this:

"Note that our "saviour" doesn't seem to mind that the RC12 is also
the REC12, which means he's doing this "mailmoving and nodelist
clerking" that "Saviour Lesley" seems so vehemently against".

Unfortunately, the RC change for R12 came through the same time that
this article was published, so some might think I was talking of Carl
Austin Bennett. I was not. I was referring to Darrell Salter, who
was both R12C and R12EC at the time the articles writing.

That said, just a reminder about the "saviour" tactics that I warned
against:

>Echo: SUPER-BITCH
>From: Lesley-Dee Dylan (1:250/525)
>To: All.
>Date: Wed Dec 13, 01:39
>
LD>I have just forced my mailer to send out my latest Gilmore attack,
and hopefully, before he becomes aware of this message, he will have
already taken the bait. Be ready for it. He is probably going to try
to backtrack on what he said in the snooze, and claim that he and
Janis were NOT incompetent in the performance of their duties as
assistant RC and REC to Martin Belcke. But since he claims in his
snooze article that it has been impossible in the past five months to
hold an election for RC because of the broken mail feeds and outdated
nodelists, then there is only one other option. He was lying about
why he has not held the election - he just wants to be the permanently
appointed (BK-style) RC of Region 11. I knew that the fun in this
election was going to turn out to be Gilmore :-)

Oh my my my... it would seem that I have offended a "saviour", and for
this I must pay. <laugh> Here's a prime example of the methods I
mentioned in my previous article about our wonderful "saviours". If
you don't toe the party line and quote, word for word, from the
"saviour bible", ye shall be stoned and then cast in the pit of fire.

One might also note that our "saviour", who is so concerned with
saving all of Fidonet, seems to be more concerned with me than the ZC
election at hand. Ah well, not to worry. A "saviour" has never been
one to really worry about what's good for us when there's something
they need to attack. <laugh> It's just a little detour, I'm sure our
"saviour" will be back to tell us all how wrong we are in no time,
right after she's done trying to attack me for whatever she can come
up with. I'm truely terrified. <yawn>

Well folks, like most of you, I'm lucky enough to have a real life,
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 11 18 Dec 2000

and really feel sorry for people like our "saviour" here, since Lesley
spends all her time swimming in her own bile, practically choking on
the hate she nurtures and lovingly tends to. This is typical of so
many of our "saviours". But as I was saying... I have a real life.

What our "saviours" do here in Fidonet means little to me. They can
attack, name call and lie, fling baseless accusations, use cheap
innuendos and play all the basic "saviour" games they like, but at the
end of the day, I still have a real life. I have a wife that was 2
hours from death this past Tuesday and had to have emergency surgery.
I have too many hours to work (and am averaging no more than 5-6 hrs
of sleep per night) since this is my busy season. (I work in a major
theatre here in Detroit) I don't have the time (nor the inclination)
to sit around on my computer thinking up ways to be a "saviour",
thinking all day long "how can I attack this or that person", or
micro-analyzing everything everyone says, trying to detect something I
can twist and mis-quote just to play "saviour" games. I want to watch
my wife get better. I want to get though the busy time at work w/o
being injured by some new crew guy. I want to enjoy Fidonet as the
hobby that brings me a little relief from the stresses of my real
life.

Most of us have real lives. Fidonet is our hobby. We enjoy it. Some
others (like our "saviours") see Fidonet as a constant battle. They're
not happy unless they're fighting over something, anything, and
attacking and tearing things or people down. That makes them feel
good. That makes our "saviours" feel like they've won another battle
in their holy war, and makes them feel like they're just a little more
better than you are.

It's sad, and I hope that somehow, some day, they'll get real lives
like the rest of us, and realize that there's many things in the world
that mean a lot more than Fidonet. Scary things (like what my wife
and I have just been through) and wonderful things (like some of the
people I've met though this hobby), but there are other things, and
winning "saviour wars" in Fidonet doesn't amount to anything. Again,
beware the "saviours", since they're only happy if you're completely
agreeing with them. If you're not, you must be beaten and clubbed.
Much like Paul Newman in the movie "Cool Hand Luke", they want to help
"get your mind right".

Ignore the "saviours", and don't let them ruin the hobby you enjoy.
Happy Holidays to all fellow sysops, and to our "saviours", I hope
Santa brings them some happiness, so that they might share that
instead of the hate, FUD and warlike tactics that they currently offer
us all.

Take care everyone, and Happy Holidays, no matter which ones you
celebrate.

--gary
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sat 16 Dec 00 9:23p Rcvd: Sat 16 Dec 9:23p
By: Lesley-Dee Dylan, Greater Toronto Area HUB 2 (250/201)
To: Warren Bonner
Re: Snooze article
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 12 18 Dec 2000

St: Pvt Rcvd
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I loved Gary's snooze article of last week. He really did provide me
with such good ammunition to use against Janis. :-)

Region 11 has been unable to hold an election since he was appointed
temporary RC, because the regional mail was not flowing and the
nodelist was out of date. OK. Martin Belcke had some family trauma
that kept him from doing his nodelist clerking jobs properly - but
isn't that why so many RCs appoint themselves a "deputy" or
"assistant" RC? And just who was the assistant RC in Region 11 while
Martin was incapacitated from his duties?

And the regional mail was not flowing? Some nets were cut off from
their mail? Well ... that was not in the RC's job description. That
fell within the pervue of the REC. Make sure that the nets were able
to get their regional echos, and providing them with assistance in
acquiring feeds for their echomail, and ensuring the routing tables
were up to date so the netmail got through, was entirely the
responsiblity of the REC, wasn't it?

RC for five months, there had to have been people who were negligent
in their jobs who allowed the nodelist to get out of date and the mail
flow to break down and allowed the routing charts to become
inaccurate.

And just who were these people?

Region,11,Central_United_States,IL_IN_KY_MI_OH_WI,Martin_Belcke,1-309-
672-4430,9600,H16,CM,MO,XA
,2,Region_11_Assistant_RC,Dearborn_MI,Gary_Gilmore,
1-313-582-0888,9600,V34,CM ,XA
,1,Reg_11_EchoCoord,Louisville_KY,Janis_Kracht,1-502-245-6778,9600,CM,
XX,H16, V32b,V42b,V34,V32T,X2C,UREC

So sweet of Gary to provide me with the documentation proving that
Janis is incompetent in the performance of her Fido duties. Now we
all know why I am saying that Janis is unsuitable to hold the Z1C
position.

I have already thanked Gary profusely.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 13 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
COLUMNS
=================================================================

Thank each and everyone of you for your contributions to the Snooze,
wheather assenting or dissenting, it would not be possible without
your input. My heart felt thanks.

Here is the latest release on the Lions Quarterback by coach Ross:

Coach Bobby Ross had put together the perfect Lions team. The only
thing he was missing was a good quarterback. He had scouted all the
colleges, and even the high schools, but he couldn't find a ringer
quarterback who could ensure a Super Bowl win.

Then one night, while watching CNN, he saw a war-zone scene in Bosnia.
In one corner of the background, he spotted a young Bosnian soldier
with a truly incredible arm. He threw a hand grenade straight into a
15th-story window 200 yards away -- ka-boom! He threw another hand
grenade into a group of 10 soldiers 100 yards away -- ka-blooey! Then
a car passed, going 90 mph -- bulls-eye!

"I've got to get this guy!" Ross said to himself. "He has the perfect
arm!"

So, he brings him to the States and teaches him the great game of
football, and the Lions go on to win the Super Bowl for the first time
in history.

The young Bosnian is lionized as the Great Hero of football, and when
Ross asks him what he wants, all the young man wants to do is to call
his mother. "Mom," he says into the phone, "I just won the Super
Bowl."

"I don't want to talk to you," the old woman says. "You deserted us.
You are not my son."

"I don't think you understand, Mother!" the young man pleads. "I just
won the greatest sporting event in the world. I'm here among thousands
of my adoring fans."

"No, let me tell you," the mother retorts. "At this very moment, there
are gunshots all around us. The neighborhood is a pile of rubble. Your
two brothers were beaten within an inch of their lives last week, and
this week your sister was raped in broad daylight."

The old lady pauses, and then tearfully says:

"...I'll never forgive you for making us move to Detroit."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

heeeeeeehaha, Sorry Gary, no offence intended, <chortle>.

~~~~~~~~~~~~C U Next Week~~~~~~~~~~~~

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 14 18 Dec 2000

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 15 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
FIDO NAVAL STORIES
=================================================================

From: "william brabant" <[email protected]>aka "Buffalo"

My name is Buffalo and I have the watch.

What does a sailor do at sea to keep amused?? Surfing the net and
sending emails is one of the newest pastimes but is controlled by the
mission of the ship and the area it is in. There is a television
system on board both closed circuit, or a ships channel and satellite.
Back in my day backgammon and card games were popular usually spades.
Gambling was frowned upon but poker games were allowed as long as
there was no money visible . The really daring people would play craps
ad thousands of dollars changed hands usually in a matter of minutes.

One night on watch in the boiler room an E-6 came running into the
console booth wearing a hard hat underwear and shower shoes. The
Master At Arms had walked in on a crap game and they had left 1500.
lying on the deck and ran . Reason was that the Captain had threatened
to bust everyone playing down to the rank of the lowest man present
and they had been playing with an E-3. The E-6 escaped but they all
learned to be less conspicuous that night. As for the buffalo I wasted
too many nights of sleep breaking even playing cards and decided that
my sleep and telling jokes was a better pastime. Hope you enjoy
today's offering.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A blonde walks into a pro shop, points to a golf club and asks the
clerk the price. The clerk looked to where she was pointing and stated
that the owner told him not to sell golf equipment to blondes because
they always seem to return the items.

The blonde left the shop, very mad, and walked down the street to a
wig shop, where she bought a brunette wig.

She returned to the pro shop and, pointing to the same golf club,
asked the clerk the price.

The clerk replied, "Sorry lady, the owner does not sell golf equipment
to blondes because of the high return rate."

"How did you know that I am a blonde," she asked.

The clerk replied, "That's a golf umbrella, not a golf club."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 16 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
RECIPES
=================================================================

By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: The Fidonet Chefs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05

Title: Albacore or Yellowfin Tuna
Categories: Seafood, Marinades
Yield: 4 Servings

1 c Vermouth
1/2 tb Lemon juice
1/4 ts Marjoram
1/4 ts Rosemary
1 Onion, chopped
1/2 Celery, rib, chopped
1 Bay leaves
1 1/2 tb Parsley, fresh, chopped
2 lb Tuna
1 1/2 tb Butter
1 1/2 tb Flour

Combine vermouth, juice, roesmary, onion, clery, bayleaf, parslely
in a bowl, Add fish. Marinate 5-6 hr. Put in casserole dish, add
marinade, salt & pepper. Bake 400 covered 35 min. until flaky. In
skillet melt butter, stir in flour, cook 2 min. Pour of liquid from
casserole to pan. Cook 5 min. Pour over fish. Serve

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Title: Sashimi Bass sings from the sea
Categories: Seafood, Xxcarol, Main dish
Yield: 4 Servings

2 tb Virgin olive oil
1 tb Lemon juice
1 ts Basil leaves, fresh only!
1 ts Chopped fresh coriander
20 oz Fresh raw Sea Bass, boneles

Ok, step one. That Bass must be *very fresh*. Swimming yesterday is
your aim, and if it wasnt swimming at the most 3 days ago, its way too
old for this! You can tell by smelling the fish. If it smells more
then faintly fishy, its too old. Bake it or do something else with
it. Nuff said ok?

Now, you chop that fish up into bite size pieces. You can make the
slices look pretty such as the japanese do, or just hack them up.
Taste is the same. Mix the otjher ingredients, and pour over the fish
just before serving. If cutting fish ahead of time, store in a
zip-lock type bag separate from the sauce.

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 17 18 Dec 2000

This can also be a side dish if your family doesnt eat much meat. As
such, it serves very well with a bowl of hot butter beans (dried large
lima beans) and rice. For a soup, consider Japanese Dashi or a mild
pumpkin/carrot puree. For a veggie, you cant beat steamed Bok Choy
with this.

From the kitchen of: xxcarol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Title: Sashimi Delight - Aku/Ahi
Categories: Seafood, Xxcarol, Main dish
Yield: 4 Servings

1 lb Aku or Ahi (Tuna)
1/2 c Worstershire sauce (brown)
1/2 c Shoyu (soy sauce)
1/4 ts Wasabi powder

Now this is a simple and delicious mainstay in my home. What you need
is really *fresh* fish. To tell if it is fresh enough, sniff it and
if it smells more than faintly fishy, its too old for this dish. Make
blackened fish of it in that case.

What to do? Chop up that fish pretty and bite sized. Its also
called Yellowfin or skipjack tuna. Keep it in an airtight container
until just before serving, then add the sauce in dipping bowls to the
side of the fish.

Goes perfectly with short or medium grain 'sticky rice' (regular rice
made to not be fluffy, but stick together so easier eaten with
chopsticks) and plain vegatibles such as green beans, Bok Choy
cabbage, or sliced fresh cucumber pieces. Add a few rice crackers and
all is set.

For dessert, consider slices of pear or fresh peach.

Nutritional notes: High in sodium due to the sauces, but low in fat
and calories. Suitable for diabetics.

From the kitchen of: xxcarol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Title: Dashi
Categories: Xxcarol, Soups
Yield: 4 Servings

1 sm Kombu piece (seaweed/kelp)
2 c Water
1 c Katsuo bushi (dried bonito)

The kombu piece will be about 4-5 inches square.

Place on heat, remove kombu when it comes to a boil and add Katsuo
Bushi. Once flakes sink, pour through strainer and discard flakes (or
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 18 18 Dec 2000

save for second soup use!). Can be made without Katsuo Bushi, with
Shiitake mushrooms in it's place for a less salty and vegetarian type
but it needs a good 2 hours gentle boil to taste right.

Optional additions galore! Top picks are little chunks of Tofu, green
onions, mushroom bits, shrimp, and shredded cabbage.

From the kitchen of: xxcarol

MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05

--- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS Norfolk VA 757-486-3057 28.8 Dual
(1:275/100)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 19 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
POET'S CORNER
=================================================================

A POEM FOR THOSE OVER 30

A computer was something on TV
From a science fiction show of note
A window was something you hated to clean
And ram was the cousin of a goat.

Meg was the name of my girlfriend
And gig was a job for the nights
Now they all mean different things
And that really mega bytes.

An application was for employment
A program was a TV show
A cursor used profanity
A keyboard was a piano.

Memory was something that you lost with age
A CD was a bank account
And if you had a 3 in. floppy
You hoped nobody found out.

Compress was something you did to the garbage
Not something you did to a file
And if you unzipped anything in public
You'd be in jail for a while.

Log on was adding wood to the fire
Hard drive was a long trip on the road
A mouse pad was where a mouse lived
And a backup happened to your commode.

Cut you did with a pocket knife
Paste you did with glue
A web was a spider's home
And a virus was the flu.

I guess I'll stick to my pad and paper
And the memory in my head
I hear nobody's been killed in a computer crash
But when it happens they wish they were dead.

~Author unknown

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 20 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
COMIX IN ASCII
=================================================================

A Christmas card from New Zealand:

Introduction: G-day All Readers

O
O O O
O *
MOORY COWristmas! .__. /|\
.____________________| |____. /||o\
/______________________________\ /|o|||\
~ # # /________________________________\ /|||||o|\
~~ # # || | |||||||||||| | || /||o||||||\
~(oo) ||___|___||||||||||||___|___|| /||||o||||||
/-------\/ || | |||||||||||| | || /|o||||o|||o|
/ | || ||___|___||||||||||||___|__ || | |
* ||----|| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||oooooooo| |oooo
oooo~~oooo~~ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

... Seasons Greetings. . . . from the Main Land of New Zealand!

~~~ ReneWave v2.00+

--- xMail 1.00
* Origin: Murphy's BBS 64 3 3519020 Christchurch N.Z. (3:770/245)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 21 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
WANTED
=================================================================

Hello everyone in every nation...
I am asking you for any articles on anything you deem to be of
interest to Fidoneters, or conversely, anything you would like to ask
Fidoneters, seek opinions or solutions to problems you or a friend may
have.

Also I have solicited bilingual articles. Articles submitted in your
native language and in English, to be published sequentially in an
issue of FidoNews. That will help strengthen Fido in membership nodes
as more folks will have a place to practice their hobby, plus sharpen
their skills with second or third language.

And lastly, we are looking for programers who wish to tell us about
their BBS program products. We need to revitalize the strong roots
that the programmers had established in the last two decades. We need
new programs also, even old programs reconstructed to work with the
newer technologies developed in the last couple of years.

Send any items to:
[email protected]
or
[email protected]
or
[email protected]
or
ICQ = warbond #17773628

Thank you in advance,
Ol'wdb

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 22 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
NOTICES
=================================================================

By: brenda donovan
To: all
Re: Z1C Election rules
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE 1 COORDINATOR ELECTION - 2000
The Z1C has announced an election, for a new Z1C. Per Policy4, the ZC
is elected by the RC's under them. It is the choice of the RC's to do
this by the following method per P4 section 6.2.

A Z1 Sysop is defined as any Sysop who is nodelisted in Z1 and
physically located within the normal geographical boundries of zone 1.

The nodelist used will be the nodelist.322 version. Reasonable
exceptions will be made during the nomination phase by the election
coordinator if a node, net or region is accidently dropped from this
version and this is validated by the RC or NC of the affected node.
The term 'nodelisted' means listed in this version of the nodelist.

Nominations

Nominating time table: NOV 17-25, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Any nodelisted Z1 Sysop of Fidonet may nominate themselves or another
nodelisted Sysop of of Z1 Fidonet for the position of Z1C. The
nomination must be made in the Z1_Election echo and should be
addressed to the Election Coordinator.

The nomination must include the name of the nominee and their Fidonet
node number.

Once a nomination has been received by the election coordinator, the
name will be added to the list of nominees. The nomination must then
be accepted by the nominee and seconded by a Z1 Sysop in the echo to
become a fully eligible candidate.

Discussion Period NOV 26- DEC 02, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Following the nomination period, a period shall be allowed for each
candidate to campaign for the position. During this period,
questioning of the candidates is encouraged.

Regional Feedback Period DEC 03-16, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Following the campaign period, the above period shall be allowed for
each region to conduct selection proceedings in accordance with
regional policy and such methods as are determined as appropriate
based on regional policy or the desires of the Sysops within that
region. All voting or other feedback including what is desired if
there is a run-off election and the primary candidate your region
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 23 18 Dec 2000

selected is eliminated, must be concluded no later than 16 DEC. No
time is alloted to conduct secondary polls of regional input once RC
voting commences.

Regional Coordinator Voting - DEC 17-22, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Following collection of regional input, the RC's shall cast their
vote. (Location TBD at this time).

Initial voting will be from 17-18 DEC. The candidate with the most
votes, wins. This will be calculated by a simple majority where if
any one candidate receives 6 RC votes, they will be announced as the
winner. If no candidate achieves 6 RC votes, a run-off election will
take place from 19-20 DEC between the top 2 candidates.

Contesting of the vote will take place from 21-22 DEC. Once finalized
and with no RC's contesting the vote, the results will be posted in
the Z1_ELECTION echo.

Note, this section may be ammended after the initial Z1C election
process has begun, in order to finalize the location of the RC votes.

Term begin/end: Turnover date to May 2003
Upon completion of the election, the newly elected Z1C's term begins
as soon as turnover can be accomplished but no later than 5 January
2001. Due to early turnover, the normal 2 year period will be extended
5 months and end May 2003. This is in order to avoid mandating a vote
over the holiday season in 2 years.

Z1C Election Coordinator - 2000
xxcarol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sat 16 Dec 00 9:15p Rcvd: Sat 16 Dec 9:15p
By: Carol Shenkenberger, Shenk's Express (275/100)
To: Warren Bonner
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Weekly notes*

In Region13, I try to post these, best as I can for all to
see and comment on. Sometimes there isnt more going on
than 'gee it's raining and the tomatoes are happy' and
sometimes it's news worth note by others <grin>.

This week, a post came from the Z1EC that he is leaving
Fidonet. Jim Balcom has been around for ages but he says
it's time for him to move on. He will be missed.

We've also got a Z1C election going on, and sorry, but I wont
have reportable results in time for this issue, but should
have by next issue.

More when I have more ok?
xxcarol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 24 18 Dec 2000

Thanks Carol, for the heads up on Jim Balcom. Yes Jim has been a fido
friend for years and years. Thanks Jim for your years of service, we
are sorry to see you go, and maybe we'll see you return soon; old ties
may fade a bit...<g>... but they are hard to break!

Warm Regards,
Ed

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 25 18 Dec 2000

=================================================================
FIDONET BY INTERNET
=================================================================

------------------------------------------------------
*Fidonet-related sites

. -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
| FIDONET-RELATED SITES |
` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
Last update: December 10, 2000

FidoNet
Homepage: http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews: http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
Echolist: http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
SDS Files: http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
FTSC page: http://www.ftsc.org/
General: http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org
Region 10: http://www.r10.org
Net 102 http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
Net 103: http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
Net 203: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
Net 2410: http://www.vector.11.com/net2410/
Region 12: http://sparkys.dyndns.org
Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
Net 264: http://www.net264.org/
Net 275: http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
Region 14: http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
Region 15: <vacant>
Region 16: <vacant>
Region 17: http://www.region17.net
Net 140: http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

Region 19: http://bise.tzo.com/r19
Net 124: http://www.dallasinet.com/net124
http://texoma.net/~flv
Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/

Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 26 18 Dec 2000

Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)
http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)
? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)
Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
Region 42: http://www.fido.cz
! Net422: http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5028: HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian)
Net 5074: http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org

Zone 4:
Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese)
Region 90:
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org
Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
(Chinese)

Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
address. The email is translated as follows
[email protected] will automatically route to the
appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will
also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it
would still be [email protected], but you get the idea.

Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
time between when the message is received, and when it is
sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 27 18 Dec 2000

v-email flag [email protected]
| email address or
Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
| | |latency|
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 | | | |
10/3 | Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c
10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c
13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
18/500 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c
19/68 | Ben Ritchey | UUE:BFDS | 33.6k | n/c
103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k,!| n/c
103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP,NFS | 384k,!| n/c
103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
105/72 @ Larry James | FTP, BinkP | aDSL | $50/yr
106/1 @ Steve Loupe | BinkP, FTP | 128k | ???
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c
107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16
167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c
211/417 @ Korombos | BinkP,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE | 33.6k | n/c
246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c
249/116 | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE |ADSL,60 | n/c
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | 128k | n/c
379/1 @ Dale Ross | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
396/1 @ John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1,10 | $5/mo
396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr
2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo
2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
2624/306 | David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c
3407/4 @ [email protected] | UUE,FTP | 28.8 | n/c
3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3651/9 @ Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c
203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c
221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c
236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
280/1601 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
292/620 | Eddy Missoul | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k |N/C
292/624 | Steven Leeman | UUE | 64k | N/C
292/907 | Bart Verhaeghe | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K | n/c
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 28 18 Dec 2000

346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
464/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | 19.2 | n/c
465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c
2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c
2446/301 @ Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
801/161 @ Renato Zambon | UUE | 33.6 |n/c
905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c

--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
* NFS = Linux Networking
----------------------------------------------
Fidonet oriented news servers

news.osirusoft.com
news.tardis.net

Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
irc.osirusoft.com (Peers wanted)

----------------------------------------------

Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301, [email protected]. All email addresses
here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
obtaining a feed. Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
most especially, email addressed to [email protected]
will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com

FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 29 18 Dec 2000

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FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 30 18 Dec 2000

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FIDONEWS 17-52 Page 31 18 Dec 2000

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