F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 51 11 Dec 2000

F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 51 11 Dec 2000
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | 1-714-639-0377 1:1/23 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: Warren Bonner |
| | (*) | \ )) | [email protected] |
| |__U__| / \// | [email protected] |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
ZONE ONE COORDINATOR ELECTION DISCUSSIONS THIS WEEK

Table of Contents
1. CHAT WITH EDITOR ......................................... 1
+++Chat with your Editor+++ .............................. 1
2. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 3
***Guest Editorial*** .................................... 3
3. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR .................................... 9
* Letters to the Editor * ................................ 9
4. ARTICLES ................................................. 12
***ARTICLES*** ........................................... 12
5. COLUMNS .................................................. 14
-+-+-COLUMN-+-+- ......................................... 14
6. GETTING TECHNICAL ........................................ 16
~SYSOPS TECH TALK~ ....................................... 16
7. NET HUMOR ................................................ 18
=+HUMOR FOUND IN FIDOLAND+= .............................. 18
8. NOTICES .................................................. 19
+++Important Notices+++ .................................. 19
9. FIDONET BY INTERNET ...................................... 22
10. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .................................... 27
FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 27
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 1 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
CHAT WITH EDITOR
=================================================================

Your editor looks into some meatier matters....
as requested
_____________________________________________________________________

NOTE: Views are each person's own, and Fido Ed is just reporting
things as asked or stated in reply; with Ed's comments for your
perusal and further comments. Perhaps this may help pull enough sysops
out of their furlined comfort zones to participate in a solution.
======================================================================
By: Ross Cassell
To: Ruth Argust
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Ruth!

DS>> His region went from being non-influential due to it's low number
of sysops to being equally influential in spite of it's low number of
sysops. Is that a good thing? Probably not. But maybe once and for all
this network will settle on dying it's death via P4, or realizing it
cannot afford to cling to it's past like a dinosaur and evolve into a
real Sysops' network.

ED: Why can't the RCC decide things by majority if they want to???
I keep reading they all have to agree or it is no go on ANY vote.
Why? Because some one put into P4 that it could not be changed? That
is not logical and if only one RC objects to the will of the others,
why don't you say, "You are out voted"! What could s/he do about it?
How is it one region's vote is worth more than the other nine regions?

RA> I think this was an excellent post, Darrell, and certainly should
cause some people to stop and think. I really can't add anything to
it, you did cover it very well.

RC> The absence of a clear cut ZONEWIDE election POL or a ZONEWIDE any
POL certainly isn't helpful.

ED: Stewart did that, unfortunately several misunderstood some
postings and it fell apart.

RC> I think you have at some point in the past looked over the
regional policy document for region 18? As you can tell, there is no
ambiguity regarding how many situations are dealt with, especially
regarding elections and all the other tangibles.. It is a very well
written document, written as a result of the finest tradition of
Fido-war-athons during its adoption.

RC> Surely you can agree, or I hope you can, that in the absence of
clear cut zonewide guidelines that no matter what would or could have
been whipped up in a pinch, someone would have been "upset". You know
one option in this current situation was to appoint an interim and
have the general election later, how many would have been "upset" over
that notion, not to mention all worked up over whomever may have been
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 2 11 Dec 2000

appointed the interim?

ED: Maybe too many cooks in the Z1C kitchen. All of this could have
been avoided had the present ZC appointed a Pro-Tem Z1C with a March
deadline for a completed election.

RC> The catch-22 here is you can please some of the people some of the
time, you cant please all of the people all of the time.

ED: So go with the majority, be it Sysops or their RC. There are two
or more sides to everything in life, in war, in politics, and in Fido.
IF this is a sysop organization, then listen to the majority of the
sysops. IGNORE those that want to do otherwise, for they have their
own selfish interests at heart, and not the will of the sysops.

RC> Well after all of this is over, we need to adopt some sort of
formal zonewide election guideline or document or whatever so that we
can be prepared for these scenarios... Instead of pissing away
valuable time bitching about the what-if's like what we did this time.

ED: Agreed!

RC> For if I had been the one to resign as R18C, by 01/05/2001, my
region would have known what to do, how to do it, and when to do it
without a single question and before anyone asks, the region 18 policy
document was ratified by the sysops of this region via a sysop level
vote.

ED: Could it be extended to cover all Zone one Regions? Could the Z1C
send it to the RCs for ratification in their region?

RC> So when work commences on a zonewide document and I will strive
for one, regardless if I get elected Z1C or not, be prepared for
varying ideas, lots of arguing and throughout the process nothing set
into stone until the sysops of the zone agree to what's in it. Fair
enough?

ED: Fair enough. Should be easy to adopt any region's sysop ratified
policy for the business of any region. If it is good for one region,
then it is good for all as they all work in fidonet to move the mail.

==
Ross
E-mail: [email protected] ICQ = 5305939

~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~

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FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 3 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
GUEST EDITORIAL
=================================================================

Item submitted for Editorial consideration

My article for Fidonews...
by Gary Gilmore 1:2410/400

Beware the "Saviours".

In Fidonews Vol 17, No.50 (Dec. 04, 2000), Lesley-Dee spews forth some
of her choice verbal turds, something she does as a hobby when she's
not being a professional insinuator and part-time "saviour of
Fidonet". For those that don't know what a "saviour" is, it's someone
that knows what you need, knows what you should think, and has no
problem telling you, because all of the rest of us poor old sysops are
just too dang dumb to know what's good for us. If you're not "smart
enough" to listen to these "saviours", they'll beat you over the head,
start name-calling you, and generally hound you until (they hope)
you'll just give up, or join their little clan and mindlessly parrot
what the other "saviours" in this little group say. (If you don't,
don't worry... they'll just turn on you next.)

Let's take a little look into the toilet and see what turds Lesley
(the saviour) Dee has dropped, shall we?

LDD> THE BENEVOLENT ELFLORD Dallas Hinton - This guy believes that he
knows what his region wants, and needs, and he will take care of it
for them.

That's funny... she's here trying to make Dallas look bad with the
above claim, but here she is, telling YOU what's best for YOU, and
trying to take care of it for you. How very nice of her. Hmmm...
should Dallas' region listen to him or to her? What a quandary. Of
course, since Lesley knows all, and IS an official "saviour of
Fidonet", Dallas' region should probably listen to her diatribes, er,
commands, umm, I mean "suggestions", right?

LDD> THE WOULD-BE ELFLORD Janis Kracht

Ahh, now here we have the favorite little name these saviours like to
use... "elf-lord". Funny, I don't know any elves in Fidonet, but I
guess you all must be, since the "saviours" like to call you that.
(Personally, I'm 6' 3", so I'm hardly an elf. How about you?)

LDD> This gal believes just about everything Dallas believes

How about that! Lesley is a mind reader! She apparently has the
ability to know what others (whom she has no dealings with, nor is
even in the same region with, let alone net) think and feel! Stunning,
isn't it? Well, it's nothing for a "saviour". Wait'll she walks on
water, folks. It's worth the price of admission! (Don't mind the
scuba gear though, since sometimes "saviours" can only walk on water
when you're not looking.)

FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 4 11 Dec 2000

LDD> She was trained by Elflord-for-Life Martin Belcke

Funny... I can't remember Martin training ANYone for ANYthing here in
Region 11. Even stepping up as Temp RC11, it was pretty much "here's
the stuff, have a nice day". Not much training there. <laugh> I
greatly appreciate the other RCs who helped me get up to speed with
some of my new duties.

LDD> who recently resigned his Elflord

You folks aren't really "elves", are you?

LDD> position in Region 11, turning the reins over to his best buddy
Gary Gilmore.

"Best buddy"? Not every having met Martin in person, I wouldn't know
who his "best" buddy is, but I somehow wouldn't think it'd be me. He's
certainly not MY best buddy. That position is currently held by my
wife. My second "best buddy" lives nearby, and keeps trying to get me
to take a job with him at Unisys. My third best buddy is probably the
NEC of the net I'm in. My 4th though 37th best buddies are guys I
work with currently, or have done tours with. So much for her
implication. Well hell, I guess even a "saviour" can be wrong once in
a while. It's hard work saving us all from ourselves. (I consider
Martin a "friend" though. He's always been quite a nice guy, and
pretty straight up, at least in our dealings and discussions. Nothing
at all like a "saviour".)

Of course, our "saviour" forgets to mention that Martin asked the Z1C
about having me take over as Temp RC11 first, and that the Z1C OK'd
this. Now, it doesn't read as well when you leave this part in...
kinda blows the whole "smokey back room" and "conspiracy" thing, so
our "saviour", like all good little "saviours" leaves a little real
truth out of their version of the "truth". Hey, you gotta hook the
readers when you're trying to bullshit 'em, so your garden variety
"Fidonet saviour" isn't above bending the truth, or even leaving truth
out completely. <shrug>

LDD> In five months, Gary has not been able to "manage" to pull an
election together

Yep. 100% right. I haven't. I've been too busy trying to clean up
the massive amount of dead nodes, help nets replace MIA NC's, busy
helping ALL R11 nets get connected to each other (via our regional
echoes), get netmail flowing again, and in general, getting R11
cleaned up, connected, and making sure they're all taken care of. I'm
sorry. I guess I should have left all the dead nodes in, called an
election (with links broken all over the region) and then called an
election. Yep, I guess that's how the "saviours" do it. Of course,
I'd rather see R11 be informed, able to discuss things amongst
themselves, and do an election in a region where everyone can get
netmail, regional echoes, and even backbone if they want it. I sorta
think communications is the cornerstone of being able to hold a proper
election. I guess I shoulda consulted with the "saviours" first.

Gee, sorry if I've been sandbagging. I invite anyone in Region 11 to
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 5 11 Dec 2000

complain if I've been taking too long for their tastes. Of course,
our "saviour" Lesley fails to notice (after all, she "knows all",
right?) that I asked the region if they wanted to wait until after the
Z1C election was over, and no one objected. Of course, that's
probably not good enough for the "saviour" crowd, but gee... I'm not
lucky enough to have any "saviours" in my region. We're all just a
bunch of sysops who want to enjoy our hobby. Guess that makes us bad
elves, eh?

LDD> (his latest excuse is that there is a Z1C election on, so the
region cannot have an election at the same time

Yes, our saviour has caught me. I lied. There's no Z1C election
going on. I just said that to hang on to this wonderful position a
little longer. <laugh>

LDD> Janis turns to Gary for help on all matters that are over her
head

Hmmm, our "saviour" seems to be slipping again. I can't recall Janis
asking me for help in a long time. If it was about anything, it would
have been regarding the FileGate, and was probably something minor. (I
do remember helping her with our routing chart, only because I was
hooking up nets, and finding dead nets... there's that pesky
communication stuff again.) Of course, when you're trying to tar &
feather someone, you just cast out any old accusation you like. Don't
matter if it's true or not. Just say it. This is Fidonet, and they're
the "saviours". They MUST be right. They don't need facts to back up
their accusations. Just fling 'em and see if anyone believes you.
It's the "saviour" way!

LDD> Gary is the asshole who filed a policy complaint against Net 163
for providing a node number to a node in Malaysia when there was no
other way for him to be in Fido.

<chuckle> "No other way", except the teensy neglected mention that I
contacted the RC of the area where this Malaysian node should have
been listed (before doing anything), and the RC was more than happy to
give this node a regional independent listing. Funny... it doesn't
sound as compelling when you mention this fact, so our "saviour" just
neglects to mention it at all. You can't be a "saviour" *and* be
truthful, don't you know. (Note how our "saviour" turns to name
calling up there? Makes it easier to spot "saviours" that way. I'm
sure I'm supposed to be terribly torn up being called "asshole". I'll
go cry now. Boo hoo. There, I'm better now. <ROFL>)

LDD> Janis is expected to lean on Gary for support for a while, then
get full of herself and throw him off.

Ooh, look! Our "saviour" is a fortune teller too! Is there nothing
(besides telling the truth) that our "saviour" Lesley can't do? We
should genuflect in her presence.

If *any* Z1C candidate thinks I'm going to hold their hand, they'd
better smell the coffee. If I wanted to deal with Z1C issues, I would
have run for the position myself. I don't, so I didn't. Of course,
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 6 11 Dec 2000

our "saviours" DO want to deal with Z1C issues, they're just too darn
smart to need to run for the position. (Remember the old saying?
"Shit or get off the pot"? Seems most of our "saviours" are
super-glued to the seat!)

LDD> When she figures out that she is not capable of handling the
position, and does need help after all, she will turn to Dallas
Hinton, and he will end up controlling the zone.

Ah, how nicely we see Lesley (our "saviour") wrap this up to attack
two of the candidates she likes the least by somehow tying them
together. Funny though... this election was declared a "sham" by
"Saviour Lesley" and her fellow "saviours"... if that's the case, they
sure like to spend a lot of time trying to sway everyone to their
thinking over a "sham".

(I have to wonder... does our "saviour" think us elves are stupid
enough to believe her wild claim above for a minute? Folks, just
shows ya how little the "saviours" respect you, and how they think
you're all too stupid to notice their lies and scare tactics, and
will, like sheep, just follow them to the Fidonet promised land.)

LDD> Since Janis objects strongly to any hint that Region 11 should
have an election for RC, do not expect to ever be bothered with an
election for Z1C again if she wins.

Hmm, let's see. Janis "objects" to a RC election, so that means no
Z1C elections? Howzzat again? Seems our "saviour" showing us how
stupid she thinks we all are with yet another wild claim. I'm
surprised she didn't toss in something like "and Janis will then raise
your income taxes" as well. <laugh>

But anyway, I guess our "saviour's" crystal ball was broken on the day
that Janis offered to help run a RC11 election, and how she helped
contact nets and nodes to get everyone in R11 connected so that we
could do an election properly. (However, I'm looking outside R11 for
an election coordinator, just to make things as "hands off" internally
as possible, and to make it harder for our "saviours" to call "foul!"
on an election that doesn't concern their region anyway.)

LDD> THE KISS-ASS ELFLORD Ross Cassell - This mail mover does not see
a conflict of interest between mailmoving and nodelist clerking.

Ah, here we are. If you volunteer for ANYTHING in Fidonet, you can't
do any other thing. Funny that our saviours don't look into the
nodelists and see that most people do double and even triple duties
anymore. Why? Because (and it's they're right to do so), other
sysops just want to sit back, get their mail, files and echos, and
nothing beyond that. SOMEone has to get these things. SOMEone has to
tend to the nodelists, weed out dead nodes, find new willing NCs for
nets where the NCs have just vanished without notice.

(Note that our "saviour" doesn't seem to mind that the RC12 is also
the REC12, which means he's doing this "mailmoving and nodelist
clerking" that "Saviour Lesley" seems so vehemently against. That's
up to Region 12 IMHO, but it is interesting that it doesn't seem to
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 7 11 Dec 2000

bother her, no?)

But, our "saviours" command that we do ONE JOB and only ONE JOB in
Fidonet, so some of the rest of you better get ready to do more,
because your "saviours" command it of you. (Notice this though...
most of the "saviours" don't really do much of anything in Fidonet,
other than command you how to think, how to act, and what to do.)

LDD> My suggestion is that the first place vote go to Ross, and the
second place vote to Dallas. Janis is the biggest threat to Fido I
have seen in a long time.

Don't be fooled. This is a backhanded endorsement. All this really
says is "I command you to vote for Ross because I hate him the least".
I'm sure Ross is thrilled with an endorsement from someone like our
"saviour". (He probably flinched when he read it.) I have faith that
those in Fidonet (those that aren't "blessed" enough to be "saviours")
are smart enough to recognize axe-grinding when they see it, and will
give our "saviour's" recommendations the respect they deserve. (Which
is, umm... none.)

Now, MY suggestion? ...beware the "saviours". Beware those that will
beat you over the head endlessly, screaming and ranting in any echo
where they can corner you. These "saviours" practice innuendo,
half-truths, micro- dissection of anything someone says (so they can
better twist it), outright lies, unfounded implications and pretty
much whatever they can in order to "scare" you, the "elves" to whom
they like to refer. Their weapon is "FUD"... Fear, Uncertainty,
Doubt.

If they can't scare you into seeing things their way, they'll hound
and bully you. They'll call you names, they'll make fun of you, try
to belittle you. (Which is, after all, just another version of
bullying.) It's the "do it/see it our way, or else". Hmmm... for a
bunch of people (who we know as "saviours") that preach how they want
a "free Fidonet", and how they want "Fidonet for the sysops", it's
certainly interesting to see how they all treat their fellow sysop
when he or she DARE to disagree with their party line. Try it for
yourself and see. Just jump into any of the gutters of Fidonet where
they accumulate, and disagree with their stances. Wear a helmet
though, since they'll be clubbing you too quickly for you to put it on
later.

I'm sure (or at least I have faith) that the sysops in Zone One know
better. They know better than to let a little band of childish bullies
push them around. They know better than to be swayed by intimidation,
name calling and the other childish antics of our "Fidonet saviours".

I hope that the sysops of Zone One vote according to their gut
feelings, and what they learned in the HONEST exchanges the candidates
had with those that WEREN'T trying out to trip them up. These
candidates are volunteers in a hobby, and deserve a round of applause
for even being willing to take the amount of bullshit that our
"saviours" would heap on them just for volunteering, not BEING Z1C,
just volunteering to. Notice that our "saviours" sit there tossing
turds at the candidates, but can't be bothered to run for the position
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 8 11 Dec 2000

themselves and show us all how it should really work. Armchair
quarterbacks. Back seat drivers. They know how it should be, but
can't be bothered to get up and DO anything for us, other than
browbeat, insult, attack, lie, imply and use cheap innuendos.

I don't care who anyone votes for in the Z1C election, because
frankly, I think all three can do the job well. Beware the "saviours"
though, since they're the real enemy to the well-being of our hobby.
They're the ones that are so busy "saving" sysops right out of the
nodelist with their attacks and innuendo, and "saving" sysops out of
the nodelist when sysops get sick and tired of all the screaming and
hollering and name calling that they seemingly do 24 hours a day.

Beware the "saviours".

--gary

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FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 9 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
=================================================================

"Letters from all Regions & all Zones"

Note: If you don't see your region or zone represented here, don't
Panic; just sit down and send the editor a letter about it.

-=+some have objected to the printing of the letters to editor+=-
To likeminded: Please press down arrow key to next article.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Malcolm Miles
To: Warren Bonner
Re: FidoNews 17:50 [00/08] Editorial
On Dec 07, 2000 Warren Bonner wrote to Malcolm Miles:

MM> New Scientist doesn't print articles about the latest fashions.
Fidonews shouldn't print articles, like "How the Grinch Stole Election
Day" - a poem about the USA Presidential Election or "FASCINATING
FACTS FROM BIOLOGY" - a collection of fascinating facts under the
section entitled "Getting Technical".

WB> Well Malcolm, how about you submit a article for any of the
MakeNews editors preselected topics? Let us see what you have in mind.
I carry the same topics Doug carried as the most read. Plus I have
added four more. I did drop the COMIX Cows as they never looked right
after passing through a HTML editor.

MM>Sorry, but I don't know what you mean by "MakeNews editors
preselected topics"? Are you saying that there are a fixed set of
Fidonews topics?

WB> The editors MakeNews program:
==========8<--clip from Makenews config---------------------
A comma in the title means that the rest of the line is the index
label. An index label may be up to ten characters long.
If you don't give an index label, then the first ten characters of
the section title are used.

nobreak
section ed editorial section gue guest editorial
nobreak
section cor corrections
section los land of the lost nodes
section rtx retractions
nobreak
section let letters to the editor
section art articles section col columns
section bio fidonet biographies
section tru true stories of fidonet
section his fidonet history
section rev reviews section fic fidonet fiction
section ftc getting technical
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 10 11 Dec 2000

section zrc coordinators corner
section str echoing
section msg we get email
section prf proofreaders report
section jok net humor
section cmx comix in ascii
section ad advertise your free service/event
section sal for sale section wan wanted
nobreak
section qst question of the week
section ans answers of the week
section not notices
section sof fidonet software listing
section asc fidonews public-key
section int fidonet by internet
===================================8<--------------------------

WB> Now you can see part of the pgm I have to fit everything into for
your enjoyment. 8^)) Yes I can change these sections if desired,
but since Joe is coding a more modern editor I see no reason to change
any just now.

MM> I believe that the long standing Fidonews policy of printing
anything at all that is submitted should be changed. Our newsletter
should only contain articles relevant to our hobby. I wouldn't expect
to find a poem about the USA election in the newsletter of the Tramway
Museum Society and I don't want to read it in a newsletter about
Fidonet.

WD> I don't agree at all. No submission censorship except for vile
language and/or destructive proclamations. As long as it is civil and
informative on any level of Fido life, it has the right to be printed
for all to enjoy. If you see an article that is boring to you just
hit the down arrow key to the next item. While you may not like the
"Ode to a sailor's Sweetheart" in the Poem section, there are many
others that do enjoy a poem now and then. It would be selfish of the
Editor to deny them heart warming items because a friend of his did
not think it appropriate and part of the heart of Fidonews. As the
header says. "Newspapers have no friends".

MM> I would rather have a short relevant Fidonews than one with
"Fascinating Facts from Biology". As I suggested in my previous
message, perhaps a move to a monthly format would be an idea worth
considering. Is there really enough news for a weekly newsletter?

WB> I would answer that in the affirmative, or do you really believe
nothing hatches in this "GLOBE" you admonish me to be aware of?
Perhaps I have not made it interesting enough for your "Aussie" taste.
I will try harder to put more meat on the table for ya!

Best wishes, Malcolm * Origin: Tardis BBS +61 3 9819 7093 (3:633/260)
WD> Warm regards to ya pal Malcolm "Dundee". 8^)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(16091) Thu 7 Dec 00 10:18p Rcvd: Fri 8 Dec 1:48p
By: Darrell Salter
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 11 11 Dec 2000

To: Warren Bonner
Re: R14 - Let it Alone!
St: Rcvd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Warren Bonner wrote in a message to Roy Witt:

WB> Agree in general to all of your points except as noted, and I
don't think Darrell is wrong in moral or principle, just wrong in
how he handled his position by pursuing it in open echo before he
argued it in RCC mode, <which he didn't by his own statenents>, and
had some others on his side.

Perspective, Warren. Do you think I am so young, naive, and/or
inexperienced to not have been on both sides of most issues at one
time or another? You might be surprised. I've sat in on private
executive boards and been part of decision making processes that
affected many hundreds of people and many hundreds of thousands of
dollars. Real-life experiences affecting real-life people and issues.
I know what it is to compromise and negotiate. I know what it is to
say "enough" to negotiations. I've made tough decisions, some right,
some wrong, but I've made them and accept responsibility for them.
It's a question of being true to yourself and deciding just who it is
you serve. Win or lose the battle, if you look yourself in the mirror
in the morning and can say you did the right things as best you could,
you've won. I have no regrets. But this is Fidonet, a hobbyist's
network. No one's real-life livelihood, savings, pension plan,
property, citizenship, or personal freedom is at stake. There is no
good reason for the RCC doing what they did from a Sysop perspective.
On this much I hope we agree.

WB> You can't spit into the wind, and get your attending pals
adoration, they will turn their back to you everytime and wipe their
faces in disgust.

Perspective, Warren. I can assure you I am not the only sysop that
feels that that is exactly what has been done to us. Are we supposed
to adore the people that spit in our faces and turned their backs on
us after we elected them to a position of being able to do just that?
Hardly. Are we supposed to continue to turn the other cheek year after
year after year? Hardly. Some people will always go with the status
quo. Some people will never care enough to do anything about
injustice. These people deserve exactly what they get. But some people
push back. Some people refuse to be intimidated and bullied and taken
advantage of. Call us whatever you like, but I consider them the salt
of the earth.

Darrell

[email protected]

http://sparkys.dyndns.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 12 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================

By: brenda donovan said in open echo:
To: Roy Witt
Re: Changing FidoNet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RW> Why wouldn't a majority of sysops be able to handle that chore?
In the least, it would save *Cs the embarrassment of having to defend
a policy that the sysops had no hand in making.

BD> Isn't that what the POLICY5 echo was about? That was "the
sysops". So what became of it? Where is it? Where is their result?
Where is the new document that will lead us into this new sysop
nirvana?

BD> Very few of the sysops want to be bothered. They just want their
mail.

RW> Good idea. However, having only *Cs working on it guarantees it'll
be the same policy as the wankers have now.

BD> I don't believe that for a minute. You are so used to spouting the
same old rhetoric, you sound like a broken record. People do change
their ideas over time if the input is reasoned. When it is denigrating
or insulting, it's ignored even if the ideas are worthy of thought.

BD> Look how David M. got the IONs accepted. Now it's normal, then it
was new with all sorts of naysayers. People do change. You quote your
old archives as if the ones writing back then don't ever change or
modify their ideas.

BD> That's a good reason for not relying on old archives for this sort
of thing. I've seen many a node come around to a different way of
thinking. You aren't going to get them to do that or see your point of
view by being an asshole.

BD> Remember the outcry when I put Net 211 up? I hardly ever hear
about it now. Lots of loud outrage that I would dare to do such a
thing. It was against p4, motherhood and who knows what else. Net 211
goes it's quiet way still.

BD> All sides of the issues have to open their minds and get rid of
the brick walls and innuendos, etc.. For one, I welcome reasoned
input. I do not listen to tirades and put downs. It wastes my time.

BD> I was on the phone for an hour last night talking about EMO nodes
and the 5000 and 5001 documents. I may not always agree with folks,
but I will listen. Some folks I won't listen to. They don't know how
to debate an issue without being insulting. Once a sysop gets that
rep, few will listen and be willing to have a discussion with them. If
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 13 11 Dec 2000

they have good ideas, they get lost in the drek.

--- GEcho/32 1.20/Pro * Origin: R10 RHUB - TNL Online! - IP/FTP Mail -
San Diego, CA (1:10/3)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jerry Schwartz said in Fidonews echo: "I'm one who is opposed to
opening up the echo. It is my firm belief that an RC needs a place
where he or she can say something stupid to the other RCs without
seismic consequences".

There have been plenty of messages posted in Z1REGCON that were
ill-considered and subsequently ignored, withdrawn, or argued away.
That becomes much more troublesome when any thoughtless remark can
start a firestorm.

It was with this in mind that I brokered the compromise with Mike
O'Connor which remains in place: an RC can cross-post his own words,
or any message directly and specifically relating to his Region, and
can paraphrase any discussion he choses; but directly cross-posting
the messages of an other RC beyond those boundaries is forbidded
without permission.

Regards, Jerry mailto:[email protected]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ED>"I have watched this ball kicked from one end of the field to the
other" to steal Jacks Yates words on another subject. This, Jerry, is
the best worded explanation of the reasons that the RC's need their
own private echo to do their laundry and iron out the wrinkles in,
free of interference and unnecessary advice from others not elected to
do their regions work.

Of course the Ed has to report all sides fairly and unbiased, giving
all the right to express their views.

~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 14 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
COLUMNS
=================================================================

Policy Analysis

By: Michael Grant
To: Dale Ross
Re: Changing FidoNet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MG> The present election rules do not "force" any form of a vote on
any region. Were it a zone-wide sysop-level vote, that /would/ be
forced on all regions without recourse. That is the important
difference. If there is to be one option and one option only,
the RCC *MUST* be unanimous in accepting it, because of the fact
that there are *no* other options available. The present rules, not
imposing any particular format on any region, does not require
unanimity because many options are still open to each
region. It only denies the zone-wide sysop level vote, but does not
deny regional sysop-level votes, or NC or RC represented votes.

DR> I understand that the RCC must be unanimous. That is one
of the flaws in the system that will prevent change. I
do not know how this can change either. A policy for Zone
1 could be written that would create a better system.
However, there is a little problem there... that a Zone
policy would have to be passed by the Zone 1 RCCs and it
would have to be a unanimous decision.

MG> Debatable... I think as long as regions are allowed to have their
own regional/net policies, it doesn't have to be a unanimous vote in
the RCC for a zone policy (as there are other options available to a
disagreeing region, unlike the zone-wide sysop vote idea..) In fact,
it states in the P-4.07 document that only a majority of RC's within
the zone are needed to initiate a policy referendum. The referendum
itself determines whether the new policy is adopted.

DR> I can live with-in what we have. What do we really use this medium
for anyway? Echomail. Yes there are still some systems that
communicate via NetMail only. They do not use nor have Internet
connectivity. So a big question concerning change. How would it really
impact how we use this medium? The only fear that one has today is
that a slap happy *C could remove a listing from the NodeList.

MG> One thing about the shrinking nodelist in Zone 1; it makes this
sort of thing a lot more noticable and harder to keep quiet. In the
days when Fidonet was a lot larger, it was hard to keep tabs on
everything that was going on. I doubt any *C attempting this sort of
thing today would get very far with it, and certainly it would not
carry on for nearly as long as a Bob Kohl type of incident did.

DR> So we get a sysop-level Zone wide vote. What did we really get? We
are assured that the Z1C is our popular choice. But once we have this
Z1C what do we get? Even if he/she is the best person out there how
does our hobby change? That is the real question for a candidate to
answer.
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 15 11 Dec 2000

MG> Sadly, this is the most important question of all, but largely due
to the bickering and suspicions about the process, it's been
overlooked in this election. My line of questioning to the candidates
was aimed at finding out who would be the best choice. Many others
just chose to attack the candidates over their own personal views and
support of one form of vote over another. That's a waste of time IMO,
and time is something I don't have much of these days.

DR> I've been in FidoNet for what 11 years now going on 12. So I've
been through several Z1Cs. The only things that I can point my finger
at that has changed my hobby has nothing to do with a *C.

MG> Software developers have had a far bigger impact, I would think...

* Origin: MikE'S MaDHousE: WelComE To ThE AsYluM! (1:134/11)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 16 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
GETTING TECHNICAL
=================================================================

Making connections

By: Steven Horn
To: mark lewis
Re: What should I use to connect?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
mark lewis (1:3634/12) wrote to Steven Horn at 10:56 on 07 Dec 2000:

ml> i can't tell, but i think you've missed my point completely...

SH> It would appear I did.:-)

ml> i'm a fidonet node... i use fidonet software to transfer fidonet
ml> mail over the POTS connection link using fidonet protocols.

SH>I'm a Fidonet node but I transfer Fidonet mail over a telephone
SH> connection to my ISP using FNOS. Alternatively, I transfer the
SH> mail over my ADSL connection using WS-FTP Pro.

ml> i also use that exact same software to transfer fidonet mail over
ml> the internet connection link using those same fidonet protocols..
ml> FTP and SMTP are not fidonet protocols...

SH> No, but is there anything inherently wrong with that? I suppose
SH> I could set up Irex but why?

ml> FTS-0001, EMSI, ZEDZAP, FTS-0006, YOOHOO, BARK, etc..., etc...,
ml> etc... are fidonet protocols. You cannot FREQ a file with FTP or
ml> SMTP, can you? not like it is done fido POTS system to fido POTS
ml> system...

SH> WS-FTP Pro gives me a limited ability to obtain files but I agree
SH> it's not at all like a FREQ. Having said that, I haven't had to
SH> freq a file in years because every time I want one I've been able
SH> to obtain it through the Internet.

ml> i have the same situation... so i use another os which will run
ml> those other programs... this system is mainly fido... the other
ml> system(s) are for business, development, gaming, etc i guess one
ml> could say that i use a screwdriver to turn screws not beat nails
ml> <<GG>> and also that i believe that if fidonet is to remain
ml> fidonet, on a technical level, that fidonet should use connect
ml> links of whatever type they can find but that they should use
ml> fidonet protocols to move the mail and files with. Otherwise, we
ml> would be abandoning fidonet and its history and admitting that
ml> the internet is 'better'... if that all comes out as i intended
ml> it to...

SH> I take your point but I think that the only Fidonet protocol that
SH> is essential is the packet protocol. I've never been a great
SH> believer in the technical protocols and am much more interested
SH> in the network as one of persons who share a common interest in
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 17 11 Dec 2000

SH> hobbyist communication.

SH> That the Internet may be a better way to move mail does not make
SH> it better than Fidonet. It simply gives alternatives in how the
SH> mail can be moved.

SH> Take care,

Steven Horn ([email protected])
Moderator, ALASKA_CHAT and CAN_SYSLAW
* Origin: North_of_60, Whitehorse, YT, Canada (1:17/67)

~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 18 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
NET HUMOR
=================================================================

A college professor asked his class a question.
"If Philadelphia is 100 miles from New York and Chicago
is 1000 miles from Philadelphia and Los Angles is 2000
miles from Chicago, how old am I?"

One student in the back of the class raised his hand and
when called upon said "Professor you're 44.."

The Professor said "You're absolutely correct, but tell
me, how did you arrive at the answer so quickly?"

The student said. "You see professor, I have a brother,
he's 22, and he's half nuts."

~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 19 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
NOTICES
=================================================================

with some humor

By: brenda donovan
To: all
Re: Z1C Election rules
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE 1 COORDINATOR ELECTION - 2000

The Z1C has announced an election, for a new Z1C. Per Policy4, the ZC
is elected by the RC's under them. It is the choice of the RC's to do
this by the following method per P4 section 6.2.

A Z1 Sysop is defined as any Sysop who is nodelisted in Z1 and
physically located within the normal geographical boundries of zone 1.

The nodelist used will be the nodelist.322 version. Reasonable
exceptions will be made during the nomination phase by the election
coordinator if a node, net or region is accidently dropped from this
version and this is validated by the RC or NC of the affected node.
The term 'nodelisted' means listed in this version of the nodelist.

Nominations

Nominating time table: NOV 17-25, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Any nodelisted Z1 Sysop of Fidonet may nominate themselves or another
nodelisted Sysop of of Z1 Fidonet for the position of Z1C. The
nomination must be made in the Z1_Election echo and should be
addressed to the Election Coordinator.

The nomination must include the name of the nominee and their Fidonet
node number.

Once a nomination has been received by the election coordinator, the
name will be added to the list of nominees. The nomination must then
be accepted by the nominee and seconded by a Z1 Sysop in the echo to
become a fully eligible candidate.

Discussion Period NOV 26- DEC 02, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Following the nomination period, a period shall be allowed for each
candidate to campaign for the position. During this period,
questioning of the candidates is encouraged.

Regional Feedback Period DEC 03-16, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Following the campaign period, the above period shall be allowed for
each region to conduct selection proceedings in accordance with
regional policy and such methods as are determined as appropriate
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 20 11 Dec 2000

based on regional policy or the desires of the Sysops within that
region. All voting or other feedback including what is desired if
there is a run-off election and the primary candidate your region
selected is eliminated, must be concluded no later than 16 DEC. No
time is alloted to conduct secondary polls of regional input once RC
voting commences.

Regional Coordinator Voting - DEC 17-22, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Following collection of regional input, the RC's shall cast their
vote. (Location TBD at this time).

Initial voting will be from 17-18 DEC. The candidate with the most
votes, wins. This will be calculated by a simple majority where if
any one candidate receives 6 RC votes, they will be announced as the
winner. If no candidate achieves 6 RC votes, a run-off election will
take place from 19-20 DEC between the top 2 candidates.

Contesting of the vote will take place from 21-22 DEC. Once finalized
and with no RC's contesting the vote, the results will be posted in
the Z1_ELECTION echo.

Note, this section may be ammended after the initial Z1C election
process has begun, in order to finalize the location of the RC votes.

Term begin/end: Turnover date to May 2003

Upon completion of the election, the newly elected Z1C's term begins
as soon as turnover can be accomplished but no later than 5 January
2001. Due to early turnover, the normal 2 year period will be extended
5 months and end May 2003. This is in order to avoid mandating a vote
over the holiday season in 2 years.

Z1C Election Coordinator - 2000 xxcarol

--- GEcho/32 1.20/Pro * Origin: R10 RHUB - TNL Online! - IP/FTP Mail -
San Diego, CA (1:10/3)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ZONE 1 COORDINATOR ELECTION - 2000
Southerner Translation
<fer Roy -n- ol'codger>
8^)
The Z1C has announced an election, for a new Z1C. Per Policy4, the
elected by the RC's under them. It is the choice of the RC's to do
the following method per P4 section 6.2.

(We got a hootin' vote goin's on!)

A Z1 Sysop is defined as any Sysop who is nodelisted in Z1 and
physically alive.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SA> Carol carol....great way to insert humor into fido :)
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 21 11 Dec 2000

SA> I'll have to post this locally...

CS> Grin, feel free!

Scott> Well one way to get humor into a thing like a fido election...
always good to see/read. |:-D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 22 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
FIDONET BY INTERNET
=================================================================

------------------------------------------------------
*Fidonet-related sites

. -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
| FIDONET-RELATED SITES |
` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
Last update: December 10, 2000

FidoNet
Homepage: http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews: http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
Echolist: http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
SDS Files: http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
FTSC page: http://www.ftsc.org/
General: http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org
Region 10: http://www.r10.org
Net 102 http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
Net 103: http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
Net 203: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
Net 2410: http://www.vector.11.com/net2410/
Region 12: http://sparkys.dyndns.org
Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
Net 264: http://www.net264.org/
Net 275: http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
Region 14: http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
Region 15: <vacant>
Region 16: <vacant>
Region 17: http://www.region17.net
Net 140: http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

Region 19: http://bise.tzo.com/r19
Net 124: http://www.dallasinet.com/net124
http://texoma.net/~flv
Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/

Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 23 11 Dec 2000

Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)
http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)
? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)
Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
Region 42: http://www.fido.cz
! Net422: http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5028: HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian)
Net 5074: http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org

Zone 4:
Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese)
Region 90:
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org
Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
(Chinese)

Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
address. The email is translated as follows
[email protected] will automatically route to the
appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will
also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it
would still be [email protected], but you get the idea.

Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
time between when the message is received, and when it is
sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 24 11 Dec 2000

v-email flag [email protected]
| email address or
Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
| | |latency|
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 | | | |
10/3 | Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c
10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c
13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
18/500 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c
19/68 | Ben Ritchey | UUE:BFDS | 33.6k | n/c
103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k,!| n/c
103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP,NFS | 384k,!| n/c
103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
105/72 @ Larry James | FTP, BinkP | aDSL | $50/yr
106/1 @ Steve Loupe | BinkP, FTP | 128k | ???
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c
107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16
167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c
211/417 @ Korombos | BinkP,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE | 33.6k | n/c
246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c
249/116 | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE |ADSL,60 | n/c
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | 128k | n/c
379/1 @ Dale Ross | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
396/1 @ John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1,10 | $5/mo
396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr
2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo
2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
2624/306 | David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c
3407/4 @ [email protected] | UUE,FTP | 28.8 | n/c
3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3651/9 @ Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c
203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c
221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c
236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
280/1601 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
292/620 | Eddy Missoul | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k |N/C
292/624 | Steven Leeman | UUE | 64k | N/C
292/907 | Bart Verhaeghe | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K | n/c
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 25 11 Dec 2000

346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
464/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | 19.2 | n/c
465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c
2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c
2446/301 @ Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
801/161 @ Renato Zambon | UUE | 33.6 |n/c
905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c

--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
* NFS = Linux Networking
----------------------------------------------
Fidonet oriented news servers

news.osirusoft.com
news.tardis.net

Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
irc.osirusoft.com (Peers wanted)

----------------------------------------------

Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301, [email protected]. All email addresses
here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
obtaining a feed. Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
most especially, email addressed to [email protected]
will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com

FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 26 11 Dec 2000

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 27 11 Dec 2000

=================================================================
FIDONEWS INFORMATION
=================================================================

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Editor: Warren D. Bonner, 1:1/23, [email protected] |
| Webmaster: Jim Barchuk, [email protected] |
| Columnist: Joe Jared, 1:103/0, [email protected] |
| (Fido Via Internet Hubs column) |
| Columnist: Ol' WDB, 1:103/401, [email protected] |
| Humor: Chuckles & Grins, emailed to editor |
| Sites Bio: Frank Vest, 1:124/6308.1 |
| (The best site of the week) |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince |
| Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, |
| Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink, |
| Doug Meyers |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
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Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet.
Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2000 by Warren Bonner, though authors
retain rights to their contributed articles. Opinions expressed
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encouraged to send their articles in ASCII text to:
Warren Bonner at one of his addresses above.

The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file
area FIDONEWS, and is published as echomail in the echo FIDONEWS.
These sources are normally available through your Network
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+ -- -- -- -- -- -- - FIDONEWS AVAILABILITY - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:140/1, or 1:396/1 |
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| http://www.fidonews.org |
| email subscription: [email protected] |
| (subject: help body: list) |
| ftp mail: [email protected] (subject: help) |
| |
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FIDONEWS 17-51 Page 28 11 Dec 2000

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