F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 49 27 Nov 2000

F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 49 27 Nov 2000
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | 1-714-639-0377 1:1/23 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: Warren Bonner |
| | (*) | \ )) | [email protected] |
| |__U__| / \// | [email protected] |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+

Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1
* EDITORIAL * ............................................ 1
2. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 3
-=*GUEST EDITORAL*=- ..................................... 3
3. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR .................................... 5
*** LETTERS across the EDITOR's DESK *** ................. 5
4. ARTICLES ................................................. 12
-=* ARTICLES *=- ......................................... 12
5. COLUMNS .................................................. 17
Election Discussion COLUMN ............................... 17
6. FIDONET HISTORY .......................................... 20
-=*History*=- ............................................ 20
7. GETTING TECHNICAL ........................................ 23
TECHNOTES ................................................ 23
8. NOTICES .................................................. 25
NOTICES .................................................. 25
9. FIDONET BY INTERNET ...................................... 30
10. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .................................... 35
FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 35
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 1 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
EDITORIAL
=================================================================

[email protected]

Well my little disclaimer last week about not permitting Fidonews
to become an arena for scrappy postings, got me notified very
quickly about freedom of speech, censorship, and even the banner
of Fidonews proclamation: "Newspapers should have no friends" by
Joseph Pulitzer.

Also other Zones apparently want to see us at our task of electing
a new Z1C. Some resented my omitting the comments of combatants and
the heated discussions on the procedures and implementation. For
any that do not like intenseness of some discussions, bear in mind
that the election will be over very soon and hopefully we'll all be
drawn back together under a happier hobby by Christmas. <chortle>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Warren Bonner
To: Dave Hamilton
Re: ZC Election Procedures
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> MG> P4 says nothing one way or the other about a "right to vote"
> MG> in the sense of a sysop-level vote.
>
DH> Yes it does. It says that the RCC will elect the ZC. If the
DH> sysops had any right to vote whatsoever, they RCC would be bound
DH> to that vote.
>
DH> This is the very argument Dallas used to keep a sysop-level vote
DH> from happening. You should pay more attention to him, he's no
DH> dummy.

I've tried to stay clear of comments on this "ZC Election Procedures"
because I have warm friends on both sides of the issue; but the above
rebuttal is so clearly and simply worded, explaining Policy4 and the
only "right to vote" being with the RCC, I have to agree with both of
your statements about it. I don't understand the animosity toward
Dallas' stand on the policy like he is wrong. As I have said many
times, change P4!

Until P4 is modified, no sysop vote is enforceable on the *C, no
matter what the sysop vote may be. A simple change P4 deleting the
word RCC and replacing with SYSOP, may change the battle ground. We
can have all of the "Sysop elections" we want, but they are
meaningless unless the RCC happens to agree with the outcome. You
rather "we" need to put a zonal policy in place regarding elections,
because you will never get P4 itself changed in my opinion.

Anyhow Dave, work on the problem of an addendum or modification of p4,
not on the individuals each trying to keep the ol' fido-buss on the
road in their own way. Stewart H had an idea he thought would solve
some of this.
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 2 27 Nov 2000

He perhaps did not have time to refine it enough to keep some of us on
board. The idea had merit, but didn't have the clear cut verbiage
defining his intent for the list. Thus, later several withdrew their
names, not because they did not prefer a sysop vote, (most do), but
because it did not define how it could be done under present policy,
or how policy could be circumvented for list use in a sysop election.
Catch 22.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Michael Grant
To: Clay Tannacore
Re: ZC Election Procedures
St:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MG> Difference? *You* accentuate the negatives, and blame the document
MG> itself. *I* find some good in the document, and blame the
MG> individual for abusing his position.

MG> Which side of the argument seems more sensible? Do words in an
MG> abstract document make a Bob Kohl? Or did Bob Kohl's own
MG> shortcomings make the problem? I strongly suspect the latter.

CT> Michael, in the case of Bob Kohl, the policy document gave him
CT> the opportunity and means to abuse his region. And, with Satti
CT> permanently in a coma, Kohl had free run of the region. I think
CT> some folks are trying to tell you the policy (Policy4) document
CT> can and has been used for individual follies.

Do you blame the tools for the ineptitude of the mechanic? Do you
blame the pistol for the cop who shot an unarmed man? The policy is
just /words/. What we make of it is entirely up to /human beings/,and
to rail uselessly against a collection of words is sheer foolishness.

Region 12 thought they had found a better way, but as it's been
clearly shown, someone found a way in their system to go against the
wishes of the sysops of that region as well.

Opportunity is where you find it; as a lawyer you ought to be very
aware of that. No document, rule or law is without loopholes that can
be exploited for the wrong purposes. Change the rule, change the law,
change the document, but don't throw it out just because some
self-serving idiot abused it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 3 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
GUEST EDITORIAL
=================================================================

Steve and Dave guest editors this week.
By: Steven Horn
To: Dave Hamilton
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Hamilton (1:229/622) wrote to Steven Horn at 17:19 on 20 Nov 2000

DH>There is no mechanism for reversing his decision. Have you read P4?
All they could do was complain about it.

There's nothing in P4 about an RC being elected either. Given that,
you unelect the offender and elect a new one. You may not have enough
time but you can at least make an attempt.

DH> But cheer up, now we have an "election guideline" that paraphrases
P4 using words that have been redefined. NOW, they can't even
complain!

That's still something available to the sysops.

DH>In fact, the process is better than having the RC appointed whether
the RC is accountable or not.

SH> I happen to believe in an RC's accountability more strongly than I
worry about how he got there.

DH> Excellent. We're in complete agreement. Except for the mechanism.
Where is YOUR guarantee of accountability defined? Ours is in our
policy of holding annual RC elections by sysop.

What would you do if your incumbent RC said "Screw you. Your right to
vote an election has been eliminated."

DH> Utterly. He's just asked us if we want him to vote at all for ZC.
He stated that he is opposed to this "sham" but will be happy to
vote if we so instruct him.

And will someone poll all of your nodes?

DH> Why don't you just ask them? Ruth posts right here in this echo.

She reads these posts.

DH> Uh, yeah. What did YOU mean by "democratically?"

Open elections without the fix being in. The last go around, I was
still a NC and polled my nodes. They did not respond so they lost
their votes which was their choice.

Take care,

Steven Horn ([email protected])
Moderator, ALASKA_CHAT and CAN_SYSLAW
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 4 27 Nov 2000

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 5 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
=================================================================

By: Gary Gilmore
To: Darrell Salter
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DS> Where did I say "majority of Zone 1" as you've quoted above?

You're implying "a vast majority", but that's a shadowy quote,
intended to make it sound like a real majority of Z1, which it isn't
at all. You might want to make it clear that it's the "vast majority
of all 20 (or whatever) sysops that bothered to reply". Now, compare
that with the number of about 1800 or so total Z1 sysops, and it's
really a tiny sampling, and not enough to be truly representative of
any "sysop feelings" in Fidonet.

When you can come back with a sampling of, oh, let's say 1/2 of the
sysops (900ish), then you'll be a heck of a lot closer to a true "what
the sysops think". Until then, you're merely projecting your feelings
onto the face of Z1 Fidonet at large.

DS> Is this actually a quote or did you fabricate it?

Nope, it was my own quote, based on what I see as your implication of
the result of this "poll".

DS> What did the RCC do? Stomped it out. A bully can only step on...

GG> Umm, this "poll" didn't complete until the current election

DS> That's not true

Yes it is. If anything, they both happened right about the same time.
I *do* notice that you don't mention that our current Z1C told the
"Election Coordinator" to "go ahead" with this election, and I wonder
why that is. <shrug>

DS> Don't tell me you're losing mail too. Sheesh.

Nope, my feed is just fine, thanks.

--gary
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: David Calafrancesco
To: Andrea Santos
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Andrea Santos wrote in a message to Janis Kracht:
AS> On Nov 21, 2000 10:33am, JANIS KRACHT wrote to ANDREA SANTOS:
My position on the duties of an election coordinator is complete
impartiality which means no suggestion of potential candidates,
regardless of qualifications.

JK> WHY?
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 6 27 Nov 2000

AS> The EO has one duty; coordinate a fair and accurate election. That
duty does not include recommendations or suggestions on the
qualifications of any potential nominee. Martin understood this and,
though his stances weren't terribly hard to figure out, his handling
of such matters was above reproach.

AS> FWIW, I hope you know my initial comment had nothing to do with
you. Would have said something regardless of who was suggested.

Really? Perhaps you should sit and have a chat with your Secretary of
State. I find it absurd that she hasn't recursed herself after having
courted an ambassadorship or cabinet post from one of the candidates
and contributing a not insubstantial amount of her own personal
fortune to that same candidates campaign. Sheesh... talk about a real
conflict of interest. Luckily there are courts in FL that don't seem
to have the same conflicts.

The real world is this is a hobby. People who volunteer to help the
rest of us shouldn't be penalized for having the stupid gene that
allows them to volunteer. I can't think of anyone that would be
persuaded simply because a zone ballot clerk noted the name of someone
who in the ballot clerk's personal opinion would likely be a good
candidate. I also note that not a single person jumped on the not so
subtle suggestion and that Janis remains in the same status that she
had before (actually in a worse position because now any nominations
for her will be scrutinized).

Dave Calafrancesco, Team OS/2
[email protected]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: Danny Walters
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Quoting Danny Walters from a message to Darrell Salter ***

DW> his own impeachment papers by abusing the vote he carries.

CS> Or she (grin). In my region, it's even in the regional policy and
has been since 94. (R13 was one of the earliest to go to voting in
the RC/REC, but not sure if they were the first). 10% of the sysops
or 20% of the NC's. I represent my region by *choice* but I didn't
and they wanted another, they can vote me out PDQ!

Our EM (our name for regional voting officer, an elected position) is
looking over a draft (second one) based on our voted 'policy' and
adapted for this, and if it's workable, he'll adapt as needed and let
everyone know.

Simple version: Sysop-wide in region (just like all our elections
have been), 'weighted voting' (takes time to explain but it's a little
like the Z1EC election idea, cast in order of your preference), EM
casts any tie votes for RC if needed (an adaption as I may have
results from other regions already so I asked the region if they
minded that being delegated and no one piped up with an objection).
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 7 27 Nov 2000

Yes, gave my RC vote to my region, as is proper.

xxcarol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Lesley-Dee Dylan To: David Calafrancesco
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DC> The real world is this is a hobby. People who volunteer to help
the rest of us shouldn't be penalized for having the stupid gene that
allows them to volunteer. I can't think of anyone that would be
persuaded simply because a zone ballot clerk noted the name of someone
who in the ballot clerk's personal opinion would likely be a good
candidate. I also note that not a single person jumped on the not so
subtle suggestion and that Janis remains in the same status that she
had before (actually in a worse position because now any nominations
for her will be scrutinized).

LD> It wasn't the suggestion that an individual would be a good
candidate that made my eyebrows perk up, it was the implication that
she would not be the election officer's choice for the position. As
far as I was concerned, that was the inappropriate part of the post by
Carol.

An elections officer (returning officer) has a responsibility to make
sure everyone feels that they are eligible to run, and to ensure that
there is a fairly good slate of candidates to chose from, even if it
means encouraging people to run. But it shouldn't just be one person,
she should be suggesting a dozen or so good candidates. Impartiality
would suggest that she should suggest at least three, with widely
differing viewpoints.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Darrell Salter
To: Ross Cassell
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Cassell wrote in a message to Darrell Salter:

ml>> 1. P4 is the policy of the organization.

DS>Interesting. How and when did that happen? What was the vote count?
Please provide references.

RC> Since you werent alive when some of Canada's Federal laws or
Ontario provincial laws were in place, does that mean they are not in
effect or do not apply to you?

He made the claim that P4 is the policy of the organization. I've
asked him to prove it. Has nothing to do with when anyone was alive.

If you mean to suggest that Fidonet gave it's elected officials a
mandate to erect the laws of Fidonet, just as the citizens of our
countries did with their elected officials, again I would ask for
proof of this. It has never happened in Fidonet to the best of my
knowledge. The best I have seen in this regard is local policies for
nets and regions and those policies apply only to those nets and
regions.

As you know, we've been down this road many times before, and the
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 8 27 Nov 2000

proof of P4's validity as the law of the land simply isn't there. What
did happen was that a group of RCs tried to force *their* self-created
policy document onto the sysops of Fidonet without a mandate to do so
and that policy was never formally accepted by the Sysops even to this
day. There has always been substantial resistance to this action by
the RCs from many of Fidonet's sysops. All it has done is create hard
feelings and division, some that accept P4 and some that don't. We've
heard arguments on both sides of the debate and many of those
arguments are good ones. But until Fidonet Sysops agree one way or the
other, P4 just cannot be deemed the law of the land. It is, at best,
an old, stale, guidelines document. Not even of much value there. The
odds of ever getting proper ratification of P4 is slim to none, and
for good reason.

There is another problem. Those of us that have net and/or regional
policies may have alienated some sysops that may not have agreed with
the those policies, even though they received majority approval of the
sysops of those nets or regions. Such is the nature of democracy.
Those sysops had options, one of which was to move to another net or
region where they could be free of policies they did not agree with.
We have both seen this happen. Were we to try to establish a zone or
Fidonet-wide policy that looked anything like P4, what would be the
options for sysops that did not agree with it? Move to another zone or
leave Fidonet? Once you get past net and regional policies you run a
very real risk of alienating too many sysops to the detriment of
network. In my opinion we're moving too far down this slippery slope
and losing site of the idea that this hobby is just that, a hobby.
These actions on a large scale can be damaging.

Laws are necessary in society to protect citizens and their property.
When was the last time a Fidonet sysop stuck his or her hand through
your monitor screen and tried to lift your modem? :) I'm not saying
there is no value in policy. There is. But it depends on what that
policy is. A hobby such as ours has been policed to death. It is small
wonder so many sysops ignore policy. In my opinion a successful policy
must have the following traits: 1) It must be formally agreed to by
the majority of those sysops it will affect, 2) it must be flexible
and changeable enough to deal with changing circumstances, 3) it must
cover only issues that are truly important, and 4) it must be a
sysops' policy, not a policy that establishes a ruling class.

When RCs as a collective (the RCC), and without a sysop mandate, try
to force things onto sysops, it is a mistake. This is in sharp
contrast to regions like ours that DO have a sysop mandate to create
the policies that affect our regions. I have no quarrel with properly
mandated actions and I doubt that you do either. However, I believe
you made the point that if we were to try to force our regional
policies onto sysops outside of our regions we would be wrong to do
so. It is just as wrong to force this (non)election onto the sysops of
Zone 1. Presenting arguments is fine, as it allows sysops to decide
the issues for themselves. But for RCs to ignore those sysop-made
decisions by forcing their will onto the sysops it is not fine. We
clearly need a mandate, which leads to my next point.

A poll was conducted and the vast majority of sysops in Zone 1 that
responded to the poll wanted true sysop-level voting for this
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 9 27 Nov 2000

election. Why have the RCs ignored that mandate in favour of trying to
force their own election rules onto the zone's sysops? Worse, they
added insult to injury by trying to force their own election rules
onto the zone's sysops by also trying once again to force their own
policy document onto the zone's sysops. A mandate for neither has ever
been established. This is abusive RCC behavior.

The RCC have been guilty of at least six actions that have been
harmful and divisive to this network. 1) Most importantly, they have
ignored the mandate (or lack of one) of the sysops, 2) without a
mandate, they have tried to force their policy document onto the
sysops, 3) without a mandate, they have tried to force election rules
onto the sysops, 4) without a mandate, they have attempted to combine
the above actions in an attempt to further force the sysops, 5)
without a mandate, they have placed their self-interest ahead of the
interests of the sysops, and 6) without a mandate, they have attempted
to set themselves up as their own electorate.

The RCC do not have a mandate from Zone 1 sysops to do any of the
above. They need that mandate, otherwise they are simply a
self-serving entity with no redeeming value to the zone.

This Z1C (non)election is wrong on all counts.

Darrell [email protected]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Darrell Salter
To: All
Re: Relay from Region 12
----------------------------------------------------------------------

* Original message posted in: Z1REGCON.
* Crossposted in: FN_SYSOP, Z1C, Z1_ELECTION, FIDONEWS.

Hello All!

I have been asked to relay for following regarding the Z1C Election...

1) Regional policies apply regionally only. They do NOT affect the RCC
body, therefore regional policies do not apply to any election rules
implemented by the RCC.

2) If all RCs must agree to sysop-level voting, then _ALL RCs_ must
agree to any and all forms of voting, including RC-voting on a
sysop-representational basis. Since R12C is NOT in agreement with the
current election scheme, the current election must not proceed and
must be halted immediately.

Notwithstanding points #1 and #2, the RCC must clarify, and justify,
to the sysops of Zone 1 the following:

3) Clarify and Justify to the sysops of Zone 1 the difference between
election draft A and election draft C.

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 10 27 Nov 2000

4) Clarify and Justify to the sysops of Zone 1 why election draft A
was rejected solely for the purpose of preventing all sysop-level
votes from determining the outcome of the election.

5) Clarify to the sysops of Zone 1 that the sysops that did express
opinions on the current election scheme were not aware of the previous
points, and that these previous points meant the removal of of the
right to vote from all Zone 1 sysops.

Darrell
[email protected]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Ruth Argust
To: Jerry Schwartz
Re: ZC Election Procedures
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Jerry.

Jerry Schwartz wrote in a message to Ruth Argust:

RA> Not really. In the above example, there would be 6 opposing votes
who could have revised the draft to something similar to version A and
passed it.

JS> The simple fact (regardless of what anyone might desire) is that
the status quo is in accord with P4, and didn't really require
ratification. It's just a schedule, with a set of recommendations
which (as we all know) is not binding on the RCs.

First, I would think it would require ratification if only as to all
the wording, dates, etc. Second, many sysops don't understand it is
not binding on the RCs. Even in just reading this one echo, you will
note that some are thinking that their regional vote is binding on
their RCs when it is not.

JS> If 6, 7, or 9 of us had been in favor of sysop-level voting we
would still have had no way of binding ANY RC, regardless of how they
voted in the matter of election rules, to follow the results of a
plebiscite.

While they may be true, those 6, 7 or 9 could vote as the sysops chose
and the Z1C would be elected by an absolute majority.

JS> It is being argued that the current rules do not force the RCs to
conduct plebiscites and vote according to the results. In point of
fact, neither did version "A." There is no enforcement mechanism
available.

Only the word of the RCs involved. As someone here stated, "if the
sysops of a region cannot trust their RC, that RC can/should be
removed by the regional sysops."

*ruth*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 11 27 Nov 2000

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 12 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================

presented by Lesley-Dee Dylan

How the Grinch Stole Election Day
By Frank Cammuso and Hart Seely
(With respects to Theodor S. Geisel.)

Every Chad
Down in Chad-ville
Liked voting a lot ...
But the Grinch,
Who lived just north of Chad-ville
Did NOT!

The Grinch hated voting! He thought it a bore.
Now, please don't ask why. Could be Bush, could be Gore.
It could be his heart bled with liberal mush.
It could be, perhaps, that he listened to Rush.
But I think the real reason his trust was so shattered
Was the great Grinchy view that his vote never mattered.

BUT Whatever the reason,
Lack of trust, lack of goals,
The Grinch dreaded that day when Chads went to the polls.
He just hated those speeches and negative ads,
And when push came to shove, he just hated the Chads.
He just hated their theme parks, their football-team rooters,
He just hated their gun laws, their barmaids at Hooters.
He just hated their weather, even hated their hate.
And he hated that they were a battleground state.

"So they're making their choices," he snarled with a sneer.
"This 'Decision Two Thousand' is practically here!
"They'll struggle to choose 'tween a crumb and a bum,
"'Cause a voter's a voter, no matter how dumb."
Then he growled, his Grinch fingers nervously drumming,
"I MUST find a way to keep outcomes from coming!"

For tomorrow, he knew ...
All the flag-waving souls,
Would again waste their efforts on Clintons or Doles.
And by then, oh, the polls! Oh, the polls! Polls! Polls! Polls!
That's the one thing he hated! The POLLS! POLLS! POLLS! POLLS!

So the Chads, rich and poor, and by bus, car, or boat,
They would vote! And they'd vote!
And they'd VOTE! VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!
They would vote to ban smoking or clearing your throat.
They would even vote laws in for curbing your goat.

And THEN ...
They'd sing that anthem. It always came later.
Be they Bush-ites or Gore-ites or ites of Ralph Nader.
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 13 27 Nov 2000

They'd stand close together, and though still full of fight,
They'd stand and they'd sing, by that dawn's early light.

And the more the Grinch thought of Election Day's ring,
The more the Grinch thought, "I must stop this whole thing!
"Why, for two hundred years I've put up with it now!
"I MUST stop these outcomes from coming!
"... But HOW?"

Then he got an idea!
Yes, a legal idea!
THE GRINCH
GOT AN AWFUL BUT LEGAL IDEA!

"I know just what to do!" The Grinch laughed with a jig.
And he wove from his goat a Sam Donaldson wig.
And into the mirror he spoke with grand rancor,
"With this helmet of hair, they'll all think I'm an anchor!"
"All I need are some ballots ..."
The Grinch looked around.
But since ballots were private, there were none to be found.
So he made his own ballot, printing letters quite little,
And he scattered the names, running holes down the middle,
And he stuck it together with Chad-berry spittle.
And he said, "They'll need Einstein to figure this riddle!"

THEN
He loaded his boxes, and without looking nervous
Put a sign on his van that said "Voter News Service."
THEN
The Grinch pulled away in his van with a screech
Toward the pads of the Chads in a place called "Palm Beach."

When he came to the first polling place in the square,
All the lines were quite long. Thoughtful talk filled the air,
As the Chads chatted merits of managed health care.
"Vote early and often," the Grinch said with a grin.
And he marched to the front of the line and stepped in.

There he left all his ballots, the strange ones with punches,
And instructions that said, "Please punch punches in bunches."
As he slunk out the door toward the nearest Grand Hyatt,
He could hear what you'd think was an Eli=E1n riot.
The Cohens sisters Esther, Mitzi, and Shannon,
Just realized that their votes had all gone to Buchanan!

At a place in Dade County near a middle-school yard,
The Grinch donned a shirt that said, "Polling Place Guard."
And he eyeballed each Chad and said, "Where is your card?
"Voter card? Motor card? Credit card? Diner's?
"Face card? Race card? Baseball card? Shriners?"
And he turned them away. Then the Grinch, like a fox,
Stuffed all of his ballots and locked the lockbox!

Then old Grinch returned home to go "LIVE" on TV.
He had waited quite late: (It was now eight oh three.)
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 14 27 Nov 2000

So the Grinch Network News first projected a score:
"Now with one percent in, we pick Chad-ville for GORE."
Every Gore-ite in Chad-ville said, "GIVE US SOME MORE!"

So he pulled more projections straight out of his stack.
Then, "Oh, dear!" said the Grinch, "I must take it all back!"
So the Grinch Network News, in grand fairness to all
Now reported that Chad-ville was "TOO CLOSE TO CALL."

"Don't be mad, all you Chads, for this isn't a scandal,
"It was just," the Grinch said, "we forgot the Panhandle.
"The science of sampling can leave one out-simpled."
So the Chads were left hanging and pregnant and dimpled.
And the stress of it all put George Bush among the pimpled!

Then the Grinch raised a finger for the night's final push.
"Election Day's done, and the winner is BUSH."
After all, George was leading at least by a dozen.
(And whenever it's close, always go with your cousin.)
"Play the music, the songs, pop the corks, sing the praises,
"'Cause with Bush as the winner, you're all getting raises!"
And then the Grinch yawned, "This election stuff's hokey,
Good-bye 'till next year! And now back to you, Cokie."

And the Grinch, he went back to his old Grinchy pad.
But en route, he was nabbed by a little Chad lad
Who had stayed up all night (quite ignoring his dad).
He stared at the Grinch and said, "Sir, who's our leader?
"Is it Bush? Is it Gore? Or, my choice, Derek Jeter?"
And the Grinch simply smiled: This day couldn't be sweeter.

They were finding out now that no outcome was coming!
They were seeing it now, all their dumbness and dumbing.
"They're just waking up!" he said. "Here's what they'll do!
"Their mouths will hang open a minute or two
"And the Chads down in Chad-ville will all cry, 'WE'LL SUE!' "

As he stared down at Chad-ville, the Grinch popped his eyes,
But the scene that he saw brought a shocking surprise.
All the Chads down in Chad-ville, Chad lads and Chad dads,
They were counting the votes, they were counting the chads!
He hadn't stopped an outcome from coming.
IT CAME!
SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER, IT CAME JUST THE SAME!

As the Grinch with his head buried deep in the sand
Sat puzzling and puzzling, "They will count them by hand?"
Yes, it came with the lawsuits, it came with the lawyers,
It came with Tim Russert, it came with Bill Moyers.
When the ballots were plucked and the counting was done
The last margin of victory turned out to be ... ONE!
And if the Grinch had just voted,
... HIS GUY WOULD HAVE WON!
And what happened then ...
Well ...
In Chad-ville they say
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 15 27 Nov 2000

That the Grinch's small district
Grew three sizes that day.

'Cause the minute his mood had come out of its slump,
The Grinch said, "Hmm! I could be running this dump!"
So he formed a committee to do all the work
And he ...
HE HIMSELF!
The Grinch ran for town clerk!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Lesley-Dee Dylan, Greater Toronto Area HUB 2 (250/201)

'Twas A Week Past Election

'Twas a week past election and all through the land,
Not a president was chosen and no decision at hand.

The ballots were counted again and again
In hopes that Florida, the Vice President would win.

The governor had won it, or so he had said
And thoughts of his cabinet danced in his head.

While Gore and his lawyers and Bush and his too
Argued and argued about what to do.

When down in Palm Beach arose such confusion,
As thousands of Jews voted Buchanan!

The box for Buchanan was too close to Gore's,
So Bush got the most votes. Should Gore have had more?

Then what in the nation's eyes did appear?
But thousands of lawyers and lawsuits to hear.

Faster and faster the lawyers they came,
With a truckload of briefs, and people to blame.

And then the Vice President said, and I quote:
"We must hand count each Floridian's vote."

The country then watched as Florida reported
Numbers and figures the media distorted.

The Vice President was weak, his chances were thin,
That in the end, the Presidency he'd win.

The governor's aides confidently touted
"We've won the election. Votes don't need to be counted."

No one cared anymore who was elected,
As long as it ended and one was selected.

As they polled Palm Beach County and counted again,
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 16 27 Nov 2000

America knew it never would end.

Thousands protested the votes that were tossed,
No one would ever concede he had lost.

And the media debated into the night,
Whether the holes should have been on the right.

And so no one knew from the west to the east,
Who got the most votes or who got the least.

But the voice of reason calmed everyone's fears:
We'll do this again in another four years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 17 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
COLUMNS
=================================================================

By: Danny Walters
To: Darrell Salter
Re: Nominations open
St:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said:

DS> No, it doesn't mean that. It likely means they understand that the
DS> sysops of this organization have never formally accepted P4 as any
DS> kind of official document so they have no need to swear allegience
DS> to it. I didn't, and I know many other sysops that didn't.

Did P4 exist when you joined? Most likely. Did you freely accept a
node number? Yes. Then whether you like it or not or want to admit
it or not, you accepted P4. That's when you voted 'yes'. You could
have voted 'no' and declined the node number.

There's a speed limit on the road that runs in front of your house.
Did you vote for it? No. Does it apply to you? Yes. Do you have a
choice? Of course: Accept it, move away, ignore it and accept any
repercussions, or get it changed.

The last is the most important aspect. If you want to change it, you
can, but you have to change the system from within the system. That's
the hard part.

I don't think anyone feels that P4 is perfect. Far from it, I'd say.
I further don't think that anyone can dig up a stone tablet with a
vote count chisled in it. As I recall it was a marginally more
palateable alternative to having the IFNA ram itself down our throats.

DS> As regards this Z1C election, P4 is also quite irrelevant, which
is one of the reasons why if the election does not come about by
direct sysop-vote of *their* choice for Z1C, and not the RCs, the
election is also invalid.

No, I'm sorry. Not so. It almost directly compares to the Electoral
College in the way it carries the vote. Can the Electoral College
Delegate cast the vote any way he wants to? Sure. Would it be
foolish to do so? You betcha. Same holds true for the RCC vote for
Z1C. An RC would sign his own impeachment papers by abusing the vote
he carries.

-dw

--- * Origin: Infinite Rider on the Big Dogma - Nashville, TN -
(1:116/116)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Warren Bonner
To: Roy Witt
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 18 27 Nov 2000

Re: Nomination
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Marc.
>
> 20 Nov 00 09:38, you wrote to All:
>
> MB> Hello All!
>
> MB> I nominate Dallas Hinton - 153/715
>
RW> I object to that nomination, as he's not qualified to be ZC...
>
Why? Is there a rule or clause giving/asking for objections? You are
trying too hard to disqualify an honest nomination and seconded
candidate. That isn't fair in my mind. Fight with your vote unless
you are a candidate rebutting another candidate.

WDB

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reply: Warren Bonner
To: Roy Witt
Re: Nominations open
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Ruth.
> 19 Nov 00 17:39, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:
>
> CS>> Be delighted to see some others! Janis Kracht might be
> CS>> a decent candidate.
> CS>> Kinda not good for me to nominate though <G>.
>
> RA> Your having suggested any candidate is highly irregular for any
> RA> EO to do in a public echo and should be grounds for immediate
> RA> dismissal.
>
RW> It's time for her to go.
>
Baloney. Carol has a right to her opinion just as you do. And yes her
vote along with the other votes in her region counts. That in no way
violates her pledge to vote her region's majority for a candidate.

You cannot disenfranchize her rights because she is voluntarily doing
a service for us all. It is NOT time for her to go. She has done an
excellent job considering the mind sets of the folks she has to deal
with to get the job done.

Why not give a little credit to those who are trying to work with a
f'd-up antiquated Policy, which they have no options to do otherwise
until it is modified, ratified and in place.

You HAVE to plow with the only horse you have, until your returns are
sufficient to buy another horse. P4 cannot be ignored as some would
have you believe. It can be rescinded, replaced, or modified, but not
ignored if the Fido structure is to hold true.

If not, get ready for many nodelists and pick your F'n choice... all
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 19 27 Nov 2000

to fail ultimately as a divided house built on sand in the path of a
mighty huricane named http://www.Iwin.gov

JMHO Ol'wdb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Ruth Argust
To: Phil Simpson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Phil.
Phil Simpson replied in a message to Ruth Argust:

RA> If 6 RCs voted for sysop-level elections, i.e. revised what is
known as version A, it would have passed. I do not know how or
where the RCs keep coming up with this thought that to have
sysop-level elections, they needed 100% to approve of it.

PS> Pretty obvious, they make things up as they go along. How else
would they keep their covetted power.

I am reminded of a famous movie, the Wizard of Oz, in which some of
the RCs seem to be playing a part. We have Dorothy wandering about a
bit aimlessly on her way following the yellow brick road that
disappears and becomes confusing to her. On her heels is her yapping
little, faithful dog, Toto. They meet the scarecrow (strawman) who
lacks a brain, the lion who lacks courage and the tin man who lacks a
heart. Together they search for the all powerful Wizard of Oz to grant
their wishes. Then they find he has no power at all; he is simply a
charleton.

What's even more amazing about this comparison is that one can see
which RCs have assumed which characters with just a little thought :)
*ruth*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 20 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
FIDONET HISTORY
=================================================================

by Bob Seaborn
*second update*

This goes back to the late-early days of Fidonet (about 10
years ago). The major distribution was set up and functioning, and a
couple of talented programmers came along from Holland. One, Harald
Harms, wrote and developed ALLFIX, a quality file-tosser, that is
still extensively used today. A second, Gerard van der Land, wrote
Gecho, an extremely powerful echomail tosser, which while not being
continued today, influenced the development of similar programs. There
were a fair number of others also, but the intent here is not to
discuss the programs, read on.

With these developments came a Fidonet sysop, one Jim Smoot,
at the time living in Texas, having retired from the US military, who
worked with these programmers, and others, to market the fruits of
their labor under what became known as the RegSite Team, at one time
having members world-wide. Jim also actively developed a series of
beta teams to work with the programmers and debug the developing
programs, as well as test new features. During this time, Jim also
represented other programs, including InterMail/InterEcho, Telemate,
and many others. The RegSite Team and beta teams are still functioning
today.

About 3 years ago, Jim's health dramatically failed, he was
diagnosed with severe emphysema, resulting in very low lung function.
This was primarily caused by his military activities, coupled with
years of smoking. He also moved from Texas to Tennessee, to be closer
to his immediate family (and the NASCAR tracks). After various up's
and down's, he was placed on the waiting list for a lung transplant.
Well the time finally arrived, last evening (November 13, 2000) I
received the following email from him:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2000 08:08:14
From: Jim & Nancy Smoot
Subject: The time is upon us .....

Only have a few minutes, but the Transplant Coordinator at
H.H. McQuire Hospital in Richmond, VA called and they have a left lung
for me. Ergo, they are sending a Jet Air Ambulance to Springfield for
to pick me and Miz Nancy up and fly us to Richmond where they are
going to replace my left lung tonight. They haven't even taken the
lung out of the other person yet.....keeping him/her on a life support
system until they can get me there. Beyond that, I have NO clue if
its a guy or a girl's lung, not any of the circumstances involved with
the person, nor how old or young (s)he is.

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 21 27 Nov 2000

I have a GREAT team of Pulmo Doctors up there, and their after
surgery care is out of this world ..... really good. But, there is
ALWAYS that element of chance in a procedure such as this ..... I just
hope they are all sober tonight and feeling good. :)

Gotta run; will keep everyone posted on what's what and how
everything is going on with me. Miz Nancy is already in a dither,
running around here like a chicken with her head cut off ..... but she
DOES have a method to her madness, I guarantee. I can already see some
of her "doings" starting to fall into place. :)

That's it ..... gotta scoot. C U later, gang.

All The Best,

--- J. Smoot
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I did have a chance to briefly talk with Jim prior to his
leaving Springfield, and while he sounded somewhat worried, he was in
excellent spirits, joking about his flight north. I wished him the
best. At the time, he asked me to let his many Fido friends and
acquaintances know what was happening with him. What follows is
easiest if we use a diary format.

Tuesday, November 14, 2000

It was obviously a long sleepless night for Jim's family and
close friends, and early this morning I received a phone call from
Lisa, his youngest daughter, who reported that as of 7:45 EST, Jim was
still in the operating room, with the doctors very optimistic as to
the prognosis. She sounded very worried and upset, albeit somewhat
calm. Reported that she was in better shape than Nancy, her mother.

Then about 12:15 EST Lisa called again to report that Jim was
out of the operating room, and in recovery, and all is good. He will
be kept there for a couple of hours, then woken up and moved to the
Intensive Care Unit for a couple of days, during which time he will be
asked to walk around to get the lung functional. After that, they
will be monitoring him for signs of rejection. Lisa sounded very
relieved, and reported that Nancy (her mother) was in high spirits. I
gathered that the plans were to keep him there for a few weeks.

It's now just before 9pm EST, and Lisa just gave me the report
that the doctors removed Jim's breathing tube, and he's doing very
well breathing on his own. Looks like there'll be a good night's
sleep for Jim's family and friends

Wednesday, November 15, 2000

It's now morning, and Jim is doing well. The doctors and
therapists have had him up and walking around already to get the new
lung active. Later in the day, he found time to have a quick phone
conversation with his close family, and sounded very good.
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 22 27 Nov 2000

Thursday, November 16, 2000

Morning, and Jim is continuing to do well, and had another
brief voice call with the part of his immediate family that remained
in Tennessee. Other than being slightly groggy from painkillers and
other drugs, he's doing extremely well.

Friday, November 17, 2000

Another morning, and Jim is all over the place, just itching
to get out of there and head home. Sounds like the Jim I know,
probably itching to be at some NASCAR event.

End of the first week

Tuesday Jim was moved from Intensive Care to his own private
room, and they also took him off oxygen the same day, a few coughing
spells and he's breathing well on his own. I had a chance to actually
chat voice with him for about 15 minutes, and he sounded as good as I
ever recall him, no breathing problems whatsoever, minimal pain as the
incisions heal. Probably a few cracked ribs as well, and the can be
quite painful while healing. He expects to be heading home in a week
or two.

If anyone is interested in sending Jim messages, please do so
via email to "[email protected]", he will receive the mail when he
returns to Tennessee, however please don't expect any prompt response
as he'll be doing so at his convenience.

~~~~~~~~~~END~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 23 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
GETTING TECHNICAL
=================================================================

by Frank Vest

From: "Frank Vest" <[email protected]>
To: "Warren Bonner" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fascinating Facts From Biology
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:49 AM

Warren,

I have a web page for you to check out. :-))

http://members.tripod.com/~Mitchell_J/

You might like this site.

Frank
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FASCINATING FACTS FROM BIOLOGY
Frank Vest

If you yelled for 8 years, 7 months, and 6 days, you would have
produced enough sound energy to heat up one cup of coffee. (Hardly
seems worth it.)

If you fart consistently for 6 years and 9 months, enough gas is
produced to create the energy of an atomic bomb. (Now, that's more
like it.)

The human heart creates enough pressure when it pumps out of the body
to squirt blood 30 feet.

A pig's orgasm lasts for 30 minutes. (In my next life I want to be a
pig.)

Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour. (Still not
over that pig thing.)

Humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for pleasure.
(Is that why Flipper is always smiling)?

And why isn't the pig included in this list?

On average, people fear spiders more then they do death.

A crocodile cannot stick out its tongue.

The ant can lift 50 times its own weight, can pull 30 times its own
weight, and always falls over on its right side when intoxicated.
(From drinking little bottles of....? Did the gov't pay for this
research?)

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 24 27 Nov 2000

Polar bears are left handed. (Who knew? Who cares? Did the gov't pay
for this too?)

The flea can jump 350 times its body length. It's like a human jumping
the length of a football field.

A cockroach will live 9 days without its head before it starves to
death. (That is a pleasant thought!)

The male praying mantis cannot copulate while it's head is attached to
its body. The female initiates sex by ripping the male's head off.
(Hi, honey. I'm home. What the...?)

Some lions mate over 50 times a day. (In my next life I still want to
be a pig. Quality over quantity, you know.)

Butterflies taste with their feet. (Oh, jeez!)

Elephants are the only animals that can't jump. ( if they did you'd
think it was an earthquake)

An ostrich's eye is bigger than its brain. (I know some people like
that.)

Starfish don't have brains. (I know some people like this too.)

Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to
frown. BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and smack'em
upside the head.

-- Frank

~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 25 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
NOTICES
=================================================================

~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----
From: "me" <[email protected]> To:
<[email protected] (warren bonner)> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000
7:56 AM Subject: street address for publication as required by federal
law

> As you may already be aware, the "publisher" of any
> publication such as yours is required, by federal law to
> file and publish as statement of the control and street
> address location. Demand is hereby made to you, as
> editor of "Fidonews" to provide me, forthwith, the
> actual physical street address, city, state, county and
> zip code of "Fidonews".
>
> It is clear to me that the control of fidonews has fallen
> to a group of assholes and hypocrites, such as yourself
> who think that you can trample on anyone under guise
> of an unincorporated association or freedom of the press.
>
> Your latest writings about me; and your "banishment" of
> me from the Fidonews conference, constitute actionable
> defamation. Because of assholes like you, Ross Cassell,
> Steve Quarella and others, my enjoyment of Fidonet has
> been reduced to anguish. While in the past I had hopes
> that things would straighten out in Fidonet, I am now
> convinced that I have nothing to lose by pursuing my
> remedies.
>
> The request for your address is as stated above, so don't
> just provide me with "Orange California".
>
> Charles Hunter
>
[email protected]
_____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______

I considered keeping this threat to myself, but since thought I
should our readers know what may be brewing. What business law
I know doesn't cover this kind of harrassing suits.

Editor Pro Tem

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am a Sargeant assigned to the Texas Army National Guard, I am very
proud of the service I am giving my country, our Division just had a
large number of personel return from Kosovo on a 6 month
rotation,these people left their jobs and familes for this duty
without a question. Please edit this however you need, could you
please add a message to your mail you send out everyday and tell
people when they see someone in uniform walk up to them and thank
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 26 27 Nov 2000

them, without the sacrifices our military personel make and the ones
made by family members and loved ones this would not be the United
States of America. HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!!!

Sincerely,

Sgt. John D. Wood
49th. ARMORED

We will be happy to say it in your own words and I would like to add
if you are near a military base and have an extra place at your table
give the base chaplin or public affairs office a call and invite a
serviceman to spend a holiday at your house.

I know I get a lot more mail than the average person but I received
two emails with the hybris virus attached today, with an address
of"[email protected]" with a subject line "Snowhite and the seven
Dwarfs - The REAL Story!" with an OSA attachment ... be careful .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: All
Re: Nomination Status
St:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nominee/node Particulars
========================================================

John Souvestre 396/1 declined
nominated by: Roger Nelson 3828/7
seconded by: Frank Vest 124/6308

Ross Cassell 18/500 ACCEPTED
nominated by: Jack Yates 3613/1275
seconded by: Janis Kracht 2320/38

Steve Quarrella 393/9005
nominated by: Warren Bonner103/401
seconded by: Andy Brown 202/800

Michael Grant 134/11
nominated by: Dave Hamilton 229/622
seconded by: Darrell Salter 229/1

Darrell Salter 229/1
nominated by: David Calafrancesco 2624/306
seconded by: Andrea Santos 135/382

Carl Austin Bennett 249/11
nominated by: David Calafrancesco 2624/306
seconded by: Andrea Santos 135/382

Ruth Argust 2404/201 declined
nominated by: David Calafrancesco 2624/306
seconded by: Andrea Santos 135/382
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 27 27 Nov 2000

Dallas Hinton 153/715 ACCEPTED
nominated by: Marc Blakely 138/146
seconded by: Steven Horn 17/67

Tony Campbell 109/263
nominated by: Robert Stoner 270/1000
seconded by:

Janis Kracht 2320/38
nominated by: Gary Gilmore 2410/400
seconded by:
--------------------------------------------------
Note that this phase will close out at 11:59 PM (Eastern time used) on
25 November. Nominations, seconds, and acceptances must be received
at least one of the 3 sites used to cross verify the reception of
candidates status. Results will be posted as soon as cross
verification is complete. All Sysops desiring to nominate, second, or
accept if a nominee, are advised to do so as soon as possible to
ensure the post arrives at one of the 3 sites, before this phase
closes out at 11:59 PM (Eastern). xxcarol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: All
Re: Z!C Election rules
St:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE 1 COORDINATOR ELECTION - 2000

The Z1C has announced an election, for a new Z1C. Per Policy4, the ZC
is elected by the RC's under them. It is the choice of the RC's to do
this by the following method per P4 section 6.2.

A Z1 Sysop is defined as any Sysop who is nodelisted in Z1 and
physically located within the normal geographical boundries of zone 1.

The nodelist used will be the nodelist.322 version. Reasonable
exceptions will be made during the nomination phase by the election
coordinator if a node, net or region is accidently dropped from this
version and this is validated by the RC or NC of the affected node.
The term 'nodelisted' means listed in this version of the nodelist.

Nominations

Nominating time table: NOV 17-25, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Any nodelisted Z1 Sysop of Fidonet may nominate themselves or another
nodelisted Sysop of of Z1 Fidonet for the position of Z1C. The
nomination must be made in the Z1_Election echo and should be
addressed to the Election Coordinator.

The nomination must include the name of the nominee and their Fidonet
node number.

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 28 27 Nov 2000

Once a nomination has been received by the election coordinator, the
name will be added to the list of nominees. The nomination must then
be accepted by the nominee and seconded by a Z1 Sysop in the echo to
become a fully eligible candidate.

Discussion Period NOV 26- DEC 02, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Following the nomination period, a period shall be allowed for each
candidate to campaign for the position. During this period,
questioning of the candidates is encouraged.

Regional Feedback Period DEC 03-16, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Following the campaign period, the above period shall be allowed for
each region to conduct selection proceedings in accordance with
regional policy and such methods as are determined as appropriate
based on regional policy or the desires of the Sysops within that
region. All voting or other feedback including what is desired if
there is a run-off election and the primary candidate your region
selected is eliminated, must be concluded no later than 16 DEC. No
time is alloted to conduct secondary polls of regional input once RC
voting commences.

Regional Coordinator Voting - DEC 17-22, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST

Following collection of regional input, the RC's shall cast their
vote. (Location TBD at this time).

Initial voting will be from 17-18 DEC. The candidate with the most
votes, wins. This will be calculated by a simple majority where if
any one candidate receives 6 RC votes, they will be announced as the
winner. If no candidate achieves 6 RC votes, a run-off election will
take place from 19-20 DEC between the top 2 candidates.

Contesting of the vote will take place from 21-22 DEC. Once finalized
and with no RC's contesting the vote, the results will be posted in
the Z1_ELECTION echo.

Note, this section may be ammended after the initial Z1C election
process has begun, in order to finalize the location of the RC votes.

Term begin/end: Turnover date to May 2003

Upon completion of the election, the newly elected Z1C's term begins
as soon as turnover can be accomplished but no later than 5 January
2001. Due to early turnover, the normal 2 year period will be extended
5 months and end May 2003. This is in order to avoid mandating a vote
over the holiday season in 2 years.

Z1C Election Coordinator - 2000

--- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4 * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS Norfolk VA
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 29 27 Nov 2000

757-486-3057 28.8 Dual (1:275/100)

~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 30 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
FIDONET BY INTERNET
=================================================================

------------------------------------------------------
*Fidonet-related sites

. -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
| FIDONET-RELATED SITES |
` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
Last update: November 19, 2000

FidoNet
Homepage: http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews: http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
Echolist: http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
SDS Files: http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
FTSC page: http://www.ftsc.org/
General: http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org
Region 10: http://www.r10.org
http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html
Net 102 http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
Net 103: http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
Net 203: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
Net 2410: http://www.earforce.dyndns.org/net2410/
Region 12: http://sparkys.dyndns.org
Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
Net 264: http://www.net264.org/
Net 275: http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
Region 14: http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
Region 15: <vacant>
Region 16: <vacant>
Region 17: http://www.region17.net
Net 140: http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

Region 19: http://bise.tzo.com/r19
Net 124: http://www.startext.net/np/net124
http://texoma.net/~flv
Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/

Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 31 27 Nov 2000

Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)
http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)
? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)
Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
Region 42: http://www.fido.cz
! Net422: http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5028: http://5028.yaroslavl.ru/
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian)
Net 5074: http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org

Zone 4:
Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese)
Region 90:
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org
Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
(Chinese)

Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
address. The email is translated as follows
[email protected] will automatically route to the
appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will
also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it
would still be [email protected], but you get the idea.

Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
time between when the message is received, and when it is
sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 32 27 Nov 2000

after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.

v-email flag [email protected]
| email address or
Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
| | |latency|
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 | | | |
10/3 | Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c
10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c
12/12 @ Ken Wilson | FTP | T1 | $24mo.
13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
18/500 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c
19/68 | Ben Ritchey | UUE:BFDS | 33.6k | n/c
103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k,!| n/c
103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP,NFS | 384k,!| n/c
103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
105/72 @ Larry James | FTP, BinkP | aDSL | $50/yr
106/1 @ Steve Loupe | BinkP, FTP | 128k | ???
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c
107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16
167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c
211/417 @ Korombos | BinkP,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE | 33.6k | n/c
246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c
249/116 | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE |ADSL,60 | n/c
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | 128k | n/c
379/1 @ Dale Ross | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
396/1 @ John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1,10 | $5/mo
396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr
2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo
2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
2624/306 | David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c
3407/4 @ [email protected] | UUE,FTP | 28.8 | n/c
3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3651/9 @ Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c
203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c
221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c
236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
280/1601 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
292/620 | Eddy Missoul | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k |N/C
292/624 | Steven Leeman | UUE | 64k | N/C
292/907 | Bart Verhaeghe | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K | n/c
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 33 27 Nov 2000

335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
464/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | 19.2 | n/c
465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c
2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c
2446/301 @ Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c

--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
* NFS = Linux Networking
----------------------------------------------
Fidonet oriented news servers

news.osirusoft.com
news.tardis.net

Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
irc.osirusoft.com (Peers wanted)

----------------------------------------------

Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301, [email protected]. All email addresses
here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
obtaining a feed. Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
most especially, email addressed to [email protected]
will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 34 27 Nov 2000

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 35 27 Nov 2000

=================================================================
FIDONEWS INFORMATION
=================================================================

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Editor: Warren D. Bonner, 1:1/23, [email protected] |
| Webmaster: Jim Barchuk, [email protected] |
| Columnist: Joe Jared, 1:103/0, [email protected] |
| (Fido Via Internet Hubs column) |
| Columnist: Ol' WDB, 1:103/401, [email protected] |
| Humor: Chuckles & Grins, emailed to editor |
| Sites Bio: Frank Vest, 1:124/6308.1 |
| (The best site of the week) |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince |
| Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, |
| Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink, |
| Doug Meyers |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA
94141, and are used with permission.

Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet.
Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2000 by Warren Bonner, though authors
retain rights to their contributed articles. Opinions expressed
by theauthors is strictly their own. Noncommercial duplication
and distribution within Fidonet is encouraged. Authors are
encouraged to send their articles in ASCII text to:
Warren Bonner at one of his addresses above.

The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file
area FIDONEWS, and is published as echomail in the echo FIDONEWS.
These sources are normally available through your Network
Coordinator. The current and past issues are also available from
the following sources:

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- - FIDONEWS AVAILABILITY - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:140/1, or 1:396/1 |
| ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/ |
| ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/ |
| http://www.fidonews.org |
| email subscription: [email protected] |
| (subject: help body: list) |
| ftp mail: [email protected] (subject: help) |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

FIDONEWS 17-49 Page 36 27 Nov 2000

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