F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 35 28 Aug 2000

F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 35 28 Aug 2000
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | 1-717-732-6820 1:270/720 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720 |
| | (*) | \ )) | [email protected] |
| |__U__| / \// | |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+

Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1
Policy Debate ............................................ 1
2. COLUMNS .................................................. 3
Ol'WDB: Big Rocks in Your Life ........................... 3
3. NET HUMOR ................................................ 5
Union Brothel ............................................ 5
Points to Ponder ......................................... 5
4. COMIX IN ASCII ........................................... 7
Cowstle .................................................. 7
5. INTERNET INFO ............................................ 8
Fidonet-related sites .................................... 8
6. FIDONEWS INFO ............................................ 12
Masthead ................................................. 12
FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 1 28 Aug 2000

=================================================================
EDITORIAL
=================================================================

Policy Debate
Doug Myers

Policy Debate continues to rage in the FN_SYSOP echo. Last week's
editorial expressed the opinion that a formal change to Policy 4 is
unlikely to result from any of the discussion currently taking
place. However, Fidonet these days is run as much by the way sysops
view the proper way they should interact as by any strict
interpretation of policy... so it behooves us to examine some of the
issues of the debate.

ISSUE: Policy 4.07 was never ratified by the sysops of Fidonet, and
therefore isn't binding on them.

It's true that Policy 4.07 was never voted upon by the sysops of
Fidonet, but rather by the Regional Coordinators. The fact that
P4.07 granted Fidonet Coordinators governing authority which was
previously considered to be in the hands of individual sysops leads
some critics to cry "Foul!" They feel that the Coordinators were
out of line to grant themselves broad powers and then attempt to
legitimate it by voting only among themselves.

Though this editor respects the above considerations, what is
overlooked is that P4.07 has been informally ratified by sysop
assent. Power in Fidonet _does_ reside in the hands of the sysops
to the extent that they care to exercise it... but to the extent
that they don't, power is exercised by individuals or groups.
Simply put, if a group sets up rules and they are followed, then the
rules are valid. P4.07 has stood unaltered for over ten years, and
until the sysops reject it, it's valid... hence "informally
ratified."

This "informal ratification" is, however, a two-edged sword. The
Region 10 Coordinator discovered a few years back that the powers
granted by Policy could be effectively rescinded by the sysops.

ISSUE: Sysop ratification of Policy isn't necessary.

It is pointed out that NONE of the policies prior to P4 were
ratified by ANYONE, but rather handed down from "on high." Hence
there is no precedent for sysop ratification.

This editor would argue that no policy would be successful without
the assent of the sysops who comprise Fidonet. All policies were
ratified to the extent that they were followed.

ISSUE: Much of the debate on "policy" is actually on areas not
covered by policy. For example, echomail isn't covered by P4.07.

FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 2 28 Aug 2000

The above argument places too strict an interpretation on the term
"policy." While P4.07 avoids any regulation of echomail, it's
difficult to argue that there's no echomail policy. Anyone who has
tried to start an echo realizes that there's a definite procedure to
follow (a policy), though it's expressed by the mail movers rather
than the Coordinators.

The practices which aren't defined by P4.07 are as much a part of
Fidonet Policy as those formally stated.

ISSUE: Fidonet doesn't really need a Policy. A set of informal
guidelines would serve the same purpose.

This is a mere bandying of words. Changing what we call policy
doesn't alter the reality. A formal policy which no one follows
isn't really policy at all, while "informal guidelines" which
constrict are more binding than any stated policy.

CONCLUSION: Fidonet will always be governed by Policy, though it
won't be P4.07 or even its successor should one ever be drafted and
adopted. Policy is simply the way the sysops choose to interact...
and that may or may not follow the formal policy. For example,
sysops generally organize under a coordinator structure, pretty much
as defined by formal policy as there are few practical alternatives.
However, strict geographic organization as mandated by formal policy
is increasingly ignored as sysops find increasing advantage to
organize in more appropriate ways. Bob Satti's concession of
automatic geographic exemptions has become policy more binding than
P4.07.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 3 28 Aug 2000

=================================================================
COLUMNS
=================================================================

Ol'WDB's Column
[email protected]
ENGINEERING EXPERT IN TIME MANAGEMENT
The BIG ROCKS in your life

One day an expert in time management was speaking to a group of
business students and, to drive home a point, used an illustration
those students will never forget. As he stood in front of the group
of high powered overachievers he said, "Okay, time for a quiz." Then
he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouthed Mason jar and set it on
the table in front of him. Then he produced about a dozen
fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the
jar. When the jar was filled to the top and no more rocks would fit
inside, he asked, "Is this jar full?"

Everyone in the class said, "Yes." Then he said, "Really?" He
reached under the table and pulled out a bucket of gravel. Then he
dumped some gravel in and shook the jar causing pieces of gravel to
work themselves down into the space between the big rocks.

Then he asked the group once more, "Is the jar full?" By this time
the class was on to him. "Probably not," one of them answered.
"Good!" he replied. He reached under the table and brought out a
bucket of sand. He started dumping the sand in the jar and it went
into all of the spaces left between the rocks and the gravel.

Once more he asked the question, "Is this jar full?" No!" the class
shouted. Once again he said, "Good." Then he grabbed a pitcher of
water and began to pour it in until the jar was filled to the brim.

Then he looked at the class and asked, "What is the point of this
illustration?" One eager beaver raised his hand and said, "The
point is, no matter how full your schedule is, if you try really
hard you can always fit some more things in it!"

"No," the speaker replied, "that's not the point. The truth this
illustration teaches us is: If you don't put the big rocks in
first, you'll never get them in at all." What are the 'big rocks'
in your life? Your children; Your loved ones; Your education; Your
dreams; A worthy cause; Teaching or mentoring others; Doing things
that you love; Time for yourself; Your health; Your significant
other. Remember to put these BIG ROCKS in first or you'll never get
them in at all.

If you sweat the little stuff (the gravel, the sand) then you'll
fill your life with little things you worry about that don't really
matter, and you'll never have the real quality time you need to
spend on the big, important stuff (the big rocks).

So, tonight, or in the morning, when you are reflecting on this
short story, ask yourself this question: What are the 'big rocks' in
FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 4 28 Aug 2000

my life? Then, put those in your jar first. (Found floating in web
surf).

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 5 28 Aug 2000

=================================================================
NET HUMOR
=================================================================

Union Brothel
Thanks to Roy Reed

A dedicated union worker was attending a convention in Las Vegas
and, as you would expect, decided to check out the local brothels
nearby. When he got to the first one, he asked the madam, "Is this a
union house?"

"No," she replied, "I'm sorry it isn't."

"Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"

"The house gets $80 and the girls get $20."

Mightily offended at such unfair dealings, the man stomped off down
the street in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionized shop.

His search continued until finally he reached a brothel where the
madame responded,

"Why yes sir, this IS a union house."

The man asked, "And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
"The girls get $80 and the house gets $20."

"That's more like it!" the UPS man said. He looked around the room
and pointed to a stunningly attractive blonde. "I'd like her for the
night."

"I'm sure you would, sir," said the madame, then, gesturing to an
obese fifty-five year old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has
seniority."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Points to Ponder
Thanks to Peggy Hollinger
[email protected]

If you throw a cat out of the car window, does it become kitty
litter?

If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn?

Is it OK to use the AM radio after noon?

What do chickens think we taste like?

What do people in China call their good plates?
FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 6 28 Aug 2000

What do you call a male ladybug?

What hair color do they put on the driver's license of a bald man?

When dog food is new and improved tasting, who tests it?

Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitoes?

Why do they sterilize the needle for lethal injections?

Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

Why do you need a driver's license to buy liquor when you can't
drink and drive?

Why isn't phonetic spelled the way it sounds?

Why are there Interstates in Hawaii?

Why are there flotation devices in the seats of planes instead of
parachutes?

Why are cigarettes sold at gas stations where smoking is prohibited?

Have you ever imagined a world without hypothetical situations?

How does the guy who drives the snowplow get to work?

If the 7-11 is open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, why does it
have locks on the door?

Why is a bra singular and panties plural?

If a firefighter fights fire and a crime fighter fights crime, what
does a freedom fighter fight?

If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?

Why do they put Braille dots on the keypad of a drive-up ATM?

Why is it that when you transport something by car it is called
shipment, but when you transport something by ship it's called
cargo?

Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?

If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

If flying is so safe, why do they call the airport the terminal?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 7 28 Aug 2000

=================================================================
COMIX IN ASCII
=================================================================

(___)
( OO
______ ______ ____\_ | _____ (__) ______
| | | | | |\O cowstle | | (oo)| |
| |____| |____| | | |__\/_| |
| | | |
| | (__) | |
| __________ | (oo) | __________ |
| | | | \/-------\ | | | |
| | | | ___ | ___ |_\_ | | | |
| | (__) | |_| |_|_| |__|| |__| | (__) | |
| | (oo) | | (oo) | |
| \___\/___/ \___\/___/ |
| |
| |
( ______ )
( / \ )
( / \ )
( | | )
| | | |
| | | |
|________________________|________|_____________|

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 8 28 Aug 2000

=================================================================
INTERNET INFO
=================================================================

. -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
| FIDONET-RELATED SITES |
` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
Last update: July 16, 2000

FidoNet
Homepage: http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews: http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
Echolist: http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
SDS Files: http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
FTSC page: http://www.ftsc.org/
General: http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org
Region 10: http://www.r10.org
http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html
Net 103: http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
Net 203: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
Net 2410: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/net2410/
Region 12: http://sparkys.dyndns.org
Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
Net 264: http://www.net264.org/
Net 275: http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
Region 14: http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
Region 15: <vacant>
Region 16: <vacant>
Region 17: http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/
Net 140: http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

Region 19: http://bise.tzo.com/r19
Net 124: http://www.startext.net/np/net124
http://texoma.net/~flv
Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/

Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 9 28 Aug 2000

REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)
http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)
? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)
Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
Region 42: http://www.fido.cz
! Net422: http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5028: http://5028.yaroslavl.ru/
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian)
?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org

Zone 4:
Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese)
Region 90:
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org
Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
(Chinese)

Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
address. The email is translated as follows
[email protected] will automatically route to the
appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will
also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it
would still be [email protected], but you get the idea.

Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
time between when the message is received, and when it is
sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.

v-email flag [email protected]
| email address or
FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 10 28 Aug 2000

Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
| | |latency|
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 | | | |
10/3 @ Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c
10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c
12/12 @ Ken Wilson | FTP | T1 | $24mo.
13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k,!| n/c
103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP,NFS | 384k,!| n/c
103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
105/72 @ Larry James | FTP, BinkP | aDSL | $50/yr
106/1 @ Steve Loupe | BinkP, FTP | 128k | ???
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c
107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16
167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c
211/417 @ Korombos | BinkP,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE | 33.6k | n/c
244/2 | Kari Suomela | FTP,VMoT,BinkP,UUE| T1,! | $25.00/mo
246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | 128k | n/c
396/1 @ John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1,10 | $5/mo
396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr
2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo
2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
2624/306 @ David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c
3613/2 @ [email protected] | UUE | 28.8 | n/c
3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3639/93 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c
3651/9 @ Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c
203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c
221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c
236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
284/800 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
292/620 | Eddy Missoul | VMoT, UUE | 64k |N/C
292/624 | Steven Leeman | UUE | 64k | N/C
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 11 28 Aug 2000

423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
464/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | 19.2 | n/c
465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c
2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c
2446/301 @ Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c

--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
* NFS = Linux Networking
----------------------------------------------
Fidonet oriented news servers

news.osirusoft.com
news.tardis.net

Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
irc.osirusoft.com (Peers wanted)

----------------------------------------------

Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301, [email protected]. All email addresses
here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
obtaining a feed. Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
most especially, email addressed to [email protected]
will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 12 28 Aug 2000

=================================================================
FIDONEWS INFO
=================================================================

Masthead

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720, [email protected] |
| Webmaster: Jim Barchuk, [email protected] |
| Columnist: Joe Jared, 1:103/0, [email protected] |
| (Fido Via Internet Hubs column) |
| Columnist: Warren D. Bonner, 1:103/401, [email protected] |
| (Warren uses the pen name "Ol'WDB") |
| Humor: Roy Reed, [email protected] |
| Features: Frank Vest, 1:124/6308.1 |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince |
| Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, |
| Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA
94141, and are used with permission.

Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet.
Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2000 by Douglas Myers, though authors
retain rights to their contributed articles. Opinion expressed by
the authors is strictly their own. Noncommercial duplication and
distribution within Fidonet is encouraged. Authors are encouraged
to send their articles in ASCII text to Douglas Myers at one of his
addresses above.

The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file area
FIDONEWS, and is published as echomail in the echo FIDONEWS. These
sources are normally available through your Network Coordinator.
The current and past issues are also available from the following
sources:

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- - FIDONEWS AVAILABILITY - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:270/720, 1:140/1, or 1:396/1 |
| ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/ |
| ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/ |
| http://www.fidonews.org |
| email subscription: [email protected] |
| (subject: help body: list) |
| ftp mail: [email protected] (subject: help) |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
FIDONEWS 17-35 Page 13 28 Aug 2000

-----------------------------------------------------------------