F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 06 07 Feb 2000

F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 06 07 Feb 2000
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | 1-717-732-6820 1:270/720 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720 |
| | (*) | \ )) | [email protected] |
| |__U__| / \// | |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+

Table of Contents
1. HEADLINES ................................................ 1
Good News, Bad News ...................................... 1
2. EDITORIAL ................................................ 2
Would you like fries with that order? .................... 2
3. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 3
Editorial Rebuttal ....................................... 3
First Principles, Part I ................................. 5
4. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR .................................... 7
Why Bother to Read? ...................................... 7
Demand for Editorial Apology ............................. 7
MAC Page ................................................. 8
5. ARTICLES ................................................. 9
Close Encounters of the Best Kind ........................ 9
My Thoughts on Fidonet ................................... 10
6. COLUMNS .................................................. 12
Ol'WDB: History Column ................................... 12
This Weeks Web Page ...................................... 13
7. NET HUMOR ................................................ 15
Bad Boys in trouble ................................... 15
New Position ............................................. 15
8. COMIX IN ASCII ........................................... 17
Udderly Cool Cows ........................................ 17
9. INTERNET INFO ............................................ 18
Fidonet-related sites .................................... 18
10. FIDONEWS INFO ........................................... 22
Masthead ................................................. 22
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 1 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
HEADLINES
=================================================================

Good News, Bad News

In this issue, you get a little of each. Frank Vest continues in
the positive direction by further examining web sites related to
Fidonet. David Smith begins his series entitled "First Principles"
where he examines the ZMH and FTS001 issue with a view to how they
might be considered to improve Fido.

And, on the bad news side, Charles Hunter demands a retraction on
views printed here, and continues to draw both editorial response
and reader response. I've got to confess that he responded to both
Ross Cassell and Roy Tellason in long articles, but I didn't print
them because he mostly repeated his views and I was too lazy to
straighten out the format so the Fidonews program would accept the
articles. Okay... maybe I was a little tired of the input too...

Jim Rysyk contributes fresh complaints in an article received in
routed netmail. To his credit, he tried to crash my system about 50
times according to his logs. I had to route the acknowledgement
back since, when I tried to crash it, we connected long enough for
me to be charged for the connection, but not long enough for a mail
session to be established.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 2 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
EDITORIAL
=================================================================

Would you like fries with that order?
Doug Myers

Should a sysop be a mere order taker for his BBS users? Should a
Coordinator act only to pander to his assigned constituency? Such
would seem to be the expectations of at least two of the recent
contributors to Fidonews, Charles Hunter and Jim Rysyk.

Charles, emailing under the name of "Mike," complains that Fidonet
sysops and moderators don't control the echoes sufficiently that
he's not bothered by messages which offend him. It is his assertion
that the mere fact that he's put the sysops here on notice requires
action on their part to make it happen. This attitude, if it
prevailed, would reduce sysops to mere order takers.

Jim Rysyk sends me logs from his mailer documenting his attempts to
freq back issues of Fidonews from several coordinators. The logs
show many systems which didn't have all the files (at least not
available for freq), and systems which wouldn't even connect with
him (including mine).

Certainly it would be a grand thing if we would meet the
expectations of these individuals. But should we? Are we under
some obligation to do so?

When I was younger, I worked in a fast food environment for a couple
of years. My motivation was income. Though I enjoyed the
customers, all they were expected to do was bring sufficient money
to handle their orders - for that alone I was expected to give
polite attention to their orders. With Fidonet, I don't expect an
income - I'm in it for the quality of the interactions. Though I've
enjoyed the BBS users and other sysops over the years, and I've
agreed to take on duties to help the organization move along - I've
always expected some reasonable treatment from those with whom I
interact.

Is this expectation reasonable on my part? On the part of the
Fidonet sysops, coordinators, and moderators?

Fidonews continues to welcome articles about what's wrong with
Fidonet... but the best articles offer some opinion on how to make
things better. I believe that Charles and Jim need to do more than
bitch and demand if they're to be welcomed here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 3 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
GUEST EDITORIAL
=================================================================

Editorial Rebuttal
Ross Cassell, thedarkcorner.dynip.com (1:3639/93)

You may post this as a rebuttal to your editorial

FR> ================================================================
FR> EDITORIAL
FR> ================================================================
FR> Freedom of the Press
FR> Doug Myers

FR> This week's editorial was inspired by Ross Cassell's guest
FR> editorial. But let me make it clear that I don't think that
FR> Ross seeks to abridge the principle of a Free Press. Nor is it
FR> a proper response to Ross's editorial; for what it's worth, I
FR> mostly agree with him. Rather, it's an attempt on my part to
FR> explain to the readers here how I view the concept of Freedom
FR> of the Press, and why such freedom might be extended to the
FR> clearly unpopular views of Charles Hunter (apparently the real
FR> name of "Mike," who complains of persecution at the hands of
FR> Fidonet).

My editorial did not hint in the least that this author advocated
abridging or inhibiting the Freedom Of The Press. I could care less
about the unpopular views of Charles Hunter, except that he is doing
nothing but threatening legal action against any individual whom
dont sing his praises, including the very sysops whom give him
access to a Fidonet Message base. Now I dont think being the
threatened or the threatener equates to popularity of lack of it, it
might equate to stupidity tho? The point being he wanders into or
actually followed another individual into an echo whose purpose is
to taunt, flame etc, then he wants to cry about it?

Charles was not persecuted at the hands of Fidonet, he subjected
himself to the ridicule of other users such as himself within an
echo where such ridicule is commonplace.

My editorial which possibly didnt convey my point very well was
posted to say this:

I feel that Fidonews is the newsletter for the members of Fidonet,
Charles Hunter is not a member of Fidonet, at least not by any
nodelist I got. He should have gotten a member of this association
to post something on his behalf, but with his lawsuit threats, who
is going to act on behalf of him? When I first netmailed Doug Myers
voicing my objections to him publishing Charles whine and pout
letter, I used an analogy that is kinda sorta proper?

" If the local garden club holds a sale at the local community
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 4 7 Feb 2000

center, selling the various plants their members cultivated, and I
patronized this sale, do I have a voice in the garden clubs
newsletter? "

Garden Club = Fidonet
Member = Fidonet BBS Sysop
Patron = BBS User
Newsletter = Fidonews

The answer is, I think not.

Now taking this a step further, I could have a problem with a plant
I bought and I could address my concern to a member, whom might on
my behalf say something about it via their newsletter?

No Doug, I had a problem with a non-member [A] being given a voice
in our newsletter on the first hand, why he had to use an alias, I
dunno? [B] He is threatening our membership with legal action
because someone says boo to him.

[snip]

FR> So recently your editor finds in his email an article by
FR> Charles Hunter, claiming persecution at the hands of Fidonet.
FR> Does he strike your editor as one who's story simply must be
FR> heard, either because it has merit or because the free press
FR> nature of Fidonews demands that it be printed? Or should the
FR> article be rejected because the author is not a Fidonet sysop
FR> or because the point of view might upset some?

See above... :)

FR> Actually, neither extreme determined publication or rejection
FR> of the article. Certainly, I didn't think that Charles (or
FR> "Mike" or whatever) had a strong argument, and his tendency
FR> towards legal threats predisposed me to just delete the message
FR> to begin with. Nor did I consider whether he was a Fidonet
FR> sysop or not - I feel there are many who are not sysops who
FR> make positive contributions to Fidonet, and this publication is
FR> for them also.

Let him become a member, if he has enough money to throw around
paying for lawyers, he can certainly afford registration fees for
Fido software!

FR> So why did he get published? Well, it was a slow day for
FR> news... ... and I did consider that there was some content of
FR> interest to Fidonews readers. Like it or not, the expectation
FR> that the Sysops and Moderators of Fidonet should control what's
FR> posted here is strong with many, and should be vocalized from
FR> time to time... if only to repudiate the notion.

Ah the slow news day..... <g>

Actually my whole editorial was an objection, not a demand,
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 5 7 Feb 2000

directive or anything remotely perceivable as controlling..

Some might have called it an opinion? <g>

---------------

Editor's Note: At no time did I consider your editorial a
demand, nor anything less than a fine contribution to Fidonews.
The fact that we differ in some of the details of our thinking
merely indicates that there are two minds at work here :)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

First Principles
Part I in a Series examining ZMH and FTS001 Issues
David B. Smith, American Tune BBS (1:2410/104)

You know, I've had the thought recently that ZMH concept is designed
and best suited for FidoNet looked at from the original perspective,
the exact opposite of today.

The original concept was each BBS as a venue unto itself. Its own
message areas, its own file areas, everything on its own. Fidonet's
netmail was one small intrusion into that isolation. And it was set
up in such a way that it intruded very little.

ZMH is netmail not trying to interfere with the accessibility of the
BBS for users, because Netmail was one very small thing. So out of
24 hours of operation -- and maybe less, with some BBSes -- only one
hour is alloted to passing netmail. More would be obstructive.
Less would be insufficient, if you have multiple people trying to
send you netmail, or if you're sending netmail, so not all your
recieving time is available.

And the rest of the time, you're mailer can be shut down and tucked
in a corner, if that what you feel is best for your system.

Echomail changed all that, and on top of that all the filebones.
Now, BBSes are no longer individual. Mostly, they are places to
connect to one or more networks. So there is no reason for
Fidonet's machinations to be unobtrusive. Avoiding inability to
connect is important. But trying to make Fidonet and other network
feeds invisible is kinda meaningless.

I think ZMH does no particular harm. There are ways it could cause
harm; for example, if it is used as a motivation to remove BBSes
from the Network.

The whole point of ZMH is to say that Fidonet -won't- interfere with
operation of the BBS as it's own independent venue, any more than it
absolutely must. One hour a day, and absolutely no more. Outside of
that one hour a day, if you feel it's best, you can pull the plug
and walk away if you want to. Fidonet is secondary, the BBS is
primary. "First, do no harm."
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 6 7 Feb 2000

As for FTS001 (hope I got the name right), it isn't intended as a
requirement to be -imposed- on the BBS and the Sysop, it is again a
way of interfering -least- with the BBS. "If you have a mailer that
does -at least- this, you don't need to buy anything more, unless
you -want- to."

Likewise, Echomail exists to add to the quality of the BBS, and not
vice versa. If the handling or content of Echomail interferes with
the quality of the BBS, then it needs to be dealt with in it's
secondary role, preserving the BBS primarily.

Bottom line, the BBS and the Sysop and how an individual wants to
run their individual system, that's what's most important. Fidonet
standards, rules, guidelines, Policies, whatever, are all secondary
to that.

Now, with so many other ways to move Netmail and Echomail and such,
it is entirely possible for ZMH as a -rule- to interfere with a BBS.
I don't think it will happen often. But in those cases where it's a
question of the BBS's primary role as a local site for local
conversations & game-playing & what-all, and it's secondary role as
a repository and access point for echomail and netmail and such,
then I believe Fidonet has to return to those first principles. Do
what is necessary to preserve that primary function, the individual
BBS itself.

I don't expect most people to agree with me. But that's what I
think is right.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 7 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
=================================================================

Why Bother to Read? Email to the Editor
By: Kent Anderson 1:382/92 [email protected]

Reading all the flap about Mike, aka Charles Hunter, aka Charles
Hunter Matzdobre, makes me wonder. Why does anyone bother to read
such controversial material?

Nearly every offline reader I know of has a twit filter of some
sort. If not, every keyboard has a key that jumps to the next
message. Long, long ago, this guy made my twit filter, therefore he
doesn't offend me and I don't bother him. I have seen a comment from
others that the lawsuits he threatens would be laughed out of court.

If you let your blood pressure be raised by a user like this, you
have only yourself to blame.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Demand for Editorial Apology
Extracted from Email from
Charles Hunter

---------------
> Rather, it's an attempt on my part to explain to the readers here
> how I view the concept of Freedom of the Press, and why such freedom
> might be extended to the clearly unpopular views of Charles Hunter
> (apparently the real name of "Mike," who complains of persecution at
> the hands of Fidonet).

I take exception to your innuendo that my "real name" is "Mike". I
told you in an email that accompanied/followed my original email to
you (Bullies of Fidonet) that "Mike" is my nickname and is added as
the signature to all of my personal emails through my ISP. You darn
well knew that; and yet you adopt the tactic of Ross Cassell of
implying that I'm using an alias either because you have
collaborated with Ross; or to try to support your rather weak
position in your editorials. I'm beginning to think that nobody
associated with Fidonet has any concern for the rights of other
people. In regard to your complained of tactic concerning my
nickname "Mike" and real name "Charles Hunter" I demand an apology
and a retraction forthwith.
---------------

Editor's Response: At no time prior to printing your article did I
receive any email from you divulging your real name. I made no
innuendo that your real name is "Mike". If you read what you quoted,
I'm accepting Ross Cassell's input that your real name is Charles
Hunter.

Further, the point is moot since I made no complaint of which name
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 8 7 Feb 2000

you chose to write your article under. You will see no apology nor
retraction from me.

I'm surprised that one who threatens legal action such as you feels
free to charge me with collaboration which you can't substantiate.
My total corrospondance with Ross prior to printing his guest
editorial was to reply to a preliminary letter he'd written
objecting to your publication. I told him I wanted to publish that
original letter, but wanted his permission since he hadn't given it
in his letter. He responded with instructions to hold off while he
wrote his guest editorial.

Ross responded to the article which YOU asked to have published
here. Your charge of collaboration is reckless and unfounded.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

MAC Page
Netmail to the Editor
Frank Vest, Collin County Station (1:124/6308.1)

In the Fidonews, there was a person asking about a Mac BBS software
page. Here's one that I know of:

http://www.hermesii.org/

There's a link on my page for BBS software and support. That address
is:

http://texoma.net/~flv/support.htm

Please pass this on to the person and to Fidonews.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 9 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================

Close Encounters of the Best Kind
By Kent Anderson
1:382/92 kand @jump.net

Since way back in '82, I have been enthusiastically logging in to
Fidonet BBS's and participating in both their local areas and in
echomail. Since the Internet became another vehicle for messaging, I
have also witnessed the number of these BBS's in the United States
and Canada ever shrinking, and the amount of traffic flowing via
echomail dwindling each day.

For me, and for other Fidonet diehards, this is a sad and unpleasant
happening. That does not mean that I have anything against the
Internet. To me, Fidonet and Internet are two distinct tools, and I
like to use the best features of each. To me, Usenet, with its
un-moderated input, and mailing lists are not in the running with
Fidonet echomail. The Internet is great for chatting with a group,
but the cold addressing of every message to "All", and depending on
your memory to otherwise identify the person to whom it is addressed
just takes something out of it.

Sure, I know that echomail, while it may be addressed to an
individual is an open invitition for anyone else to chime in on any
subject, but it is just not the same. I also like the fact that, in
the local areas of Fidonet, I get to know, and even to meet people
right in my own locale. It's a special type of camaraderie.

I have some living proof that that may carry to other than local
areas: In the Memories Echo, of which I was a long time Moderator,
and am now Co-Moderator, we had a group of people from New Zealand,
Kiwi's, become active participants. Gee, what a nice bunch of folks.
After a year or two of constant messaging, I feel that these people,
and all who come to that echo regularly, are part of an extended
family. It is an amazing closeness, considering the miles which may
separate us, and to me that is one of the truly great rewards of
participating in echomail and local BBS events.

And now, the almost unbelievable may happen. One of the Kiwi's, a
Bob King from Christchurch, has won a trip back to his original home
in England, and is allowed five stopovers while enroute. He is
trying to arrange for one of those stopovers to be Bergstrom
International Airport right here in Austin.

If he can, although neither of us will be truly able to confirm it,
it may not be our first face to face meeting. You see, during WWII,
I was stationed at a USAAFB called Merryfield, near Yeovil in
England. Bob was then a youngster and often came to the gate and
chatted with whomever was on guard duty there. I spent many a happy
time with these English kids, giving a bit of gum or candy when it
was available, and enjoying their chatter. So, who knows - it's a
small world!
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 10 7 Feb 2000

I am keeping my fingers crossed, am aglow with anticipation, and
otherwise on pins and needles hoping for this great event to take
place.

How wonderful it would be to meet this guy, with whom I have
exchanged potshots, poking fun at each other, and even occasional
serious information over the past three or four years. It will be
truly great if we can spend enough time to bend an elbow and break a
bit of bread with each other. I feel certain that Bob will prove to
be the great guy he comes across as in the echo. And, if this event
does to come to pass, there will be another story to tell, right
here in Fidonews.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

My Thoughts on Fidonet
Jim Rysyk 1:12/242

Reply to: Darrell Salter post FIDO1701.nws January 2000. Yes, it
probably should have been called FIDO1801.nws. But it unarced as
1701.

As I see it, over the years, the recently elected, appointer, as
well as the self appointed have caused much of the Fidonet
problems. I've been a member of 4 different Fido nets, as well as
members in some 30 other clones of Fido, using FTS mailers. Most
often, after a new *C is elected, or appointed, things go bad. If
and when we are lucky, this only lasts for a few month. When we
are not so luck, the new *C blames everyone else, every one else
software, every one else configuration. Being a member of so many
nets, its surprising that the same names repeat in the *C
position, then the down links of these *Cs start complaining, and
leaving.

Some of the nodes disappeared due to people playing with the
segment of the nodelist. Several of my assigned addresses
disappeared this way. Some of the nodes disappeared, due to people
mis routing Net Mail to places where no arrangements to route mail
were discussed by anyone. Most often this is a dead end node, some
times in areas that speak a different language. Other times the
Net Mail has been held at various official route hubs, who
specialize in delaying and mis routing the mail. I've several 1st
hand examples of this type of Net Mail that had been addressed to
my various addresses over the years. As of 1999 it still goes on,
and is still routed through two or more hubs here in Toronto,
before heading East into Quebec, and some dead end nodes.

At least half a dozen different dead end nodes have forwarded me
such Net Mail in the last five years. Unfortunately in most or
all cases my complaints to the *C structure failed to have the
misrouting corrected. Some of the *C structure thought it was
funny, and joked about it.

I've other reasons why I'm not participating in Fido. Eg a hub
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 11 7 Feb 2000

was ordered to cut my feed, and several hubs were ordered to
password me out. One local node who is also listed as a Hub, but
shows no nodes listed before the next hub is listed, kept on
writing me echo and net mail consisting of two words, repeated
500, or even 1,000 times in these last three years. Yes, its the
other person who wrote an item in FIDO1701.NSW, for Week 1, of
2000. This is why the echo I used to moderated, went unmoderated.

With no reliable echo feed so many times, and no kick in backup
feed for so many reasons, both intentional, and mis configurations
in so many nodes/Hubs/*Cs, I no longer participate.

Until the local Net Mail, Echo Mail, Filebone, and Internet Gate
is fixed, and the insults and language is cleaned up, I will
remain out of the echoes, even the ones I used to moderate.

I've a stale date filter, that refused to process mail over 30
days old, so don't route any coments back to me.

Local Net Mail remained mis routed in 1999, with at least three *C
participating, moving net mail addresses to 1:12/242 to dead end
nodes in Quebec in 1999. So if you want to contact me, CM direct,
and unpacked please.

Take care, and get Fido Fixed. I can't even FREQ the local *Cs in
Reg 12.

Not much has changed, or been fixed in R12.

It used to be fun.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 12 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
COLUMNS
=================================================================

History Column
[email protected]

Here's piece of US history which makes you sit down and say
hmmmmmmmm......

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.
Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
Both wives lost children while living in the White House.
Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
Both Presidents were shot in the head.

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.
Both were succeeded by Southerners.
Both successors were named Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names are comprised of fifteen letters.

Lincoln was shot at the theater named "Kennedy".
Kennedy was shot in a car called "Lincoln".

Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

And here's the kicker....

A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.
A week before Kennedy was shot, he was in Marilyn Monroe.

Author unknown..

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 13 7 Feb 2000

-----------------------------------------------------------------

This Weeks Web Page
By Frank Vest
1:124/6308(.1)

Name: Country BBS Home Page - 3:640/296
Where: http://www.fan.net.au/~allround/

What's it got:

Ok... The BBS is in Australia. The page has what looks like an Ansi
picture of a stand of trees to the right side. I'm not sure what
this means, but I do like the idea of an Ansi picture on a page. :)

The page is also the "Home Page for the Cooluser and Cool Utilities
for Maximus BBS Software". Rather than write a piece about this
page, here's a cut and paste from the page, about the BBS:

----- Cut
Country BBS Home Page

Welcome to Country BBS Home Page!

(New Version) of Cooluser V1.61, click on here to download it.

Bookmark our new address :- http://www.fan.net.au/~allround.

Home Page for the Cooluser and Cool Utilities for Maximus BBS
Software. The BBS Computer runs under OS/2 Warp v4.0.
All new users now get 60mins online with unlimited Kb Download.
Access to FidoNet Echos plus
access to the CD's online.(New!)
Open 24 Hours, 7 Days a week.
Phone Numbers:

Within Australia International
BBS (Line 1)
(07) 5547 7184 (61) 7554 7184

FidoNet :- 3:640/296

Currently on-line is 5GB of Windows 95, OS/2, Dos Utilities and
BBS Software.

On-line CD available to all users:

* Windows 95 Disk 1 and 2
* Night Owl 9 and 20
* Software Vault
* So Much Shareware 3
* Shareware Heaven 3.
----- Cut

There are also links for OS/2, Windows, BBS Software and other
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 14 7 Feb 2000

places. Of course, there is a guest book. :) The hit counter seemed
to be missing. :( The page is a member of a "Web Ring" as well.

I like this page because the information is "up front". You don't
have to look through a bunch of pages to find what kind of software
is being used, what's on the BBS and other information that might be
of interest to someone looking for a BBS home.

If you're in Australia, or anywhere else for that matter, check this
page out.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 15 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
NET HUMOR
=================================================================

Bad Boys in trouble...

A couple had two little boys, ages 8 and 10, who were excessively
mischievous. They were always getting into trouble and their
parents knew that, if any mischief occurred in their town, their
sons were probably involved.

The boys' mother heard that a clergyman in town had been successful
in disciplining children, so she asked him if he would speak with
her boys.

The clergyman agreed, but asked to see them individually. The
mother sent her 8 year old in the morning and was going to send the
10 year old in the afternoon.

The 8 year old went into the clergyman's office and the clergyman, a
huge man with a booming voice, sat the younger boy down and asked
him sternly, "Where is God!?"

The boy's mouth dropped open, but he made no response, sitting there
with his mouth hanging open, wide-eyed. So the clergyman repeated
the question in an even sterner tone, "Where is God!!?" Again the
boy made no attempt to answer. So the clergyman raised his voice
even more and shook his finger in the boy's face and bellowed,
"Where is God?"

The boy screamed and bolted from the room, ran directly home and
dove into his closet, slamming the door behind him.

When his older brother found him in the closet, he asked, "What
happened?"

The younger brother, gasping for breath, replied, "We are in BIG
trouble this time, dude. God is missing -- and they think WE did
it!!"

-----------------------------------------------------------------

New Position
Thanks to Ol'WDB

After hearing a couple's complaints that their intimate life wasn't
what it used to be, the sex counselor suggested they vary their
position.

"For example," he suggested, "you might try the wheelbarrow. Lift
her legs from behind and off you go."

The eager husband was all for trying this new idea as soon as they
got home.

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 16 7 Feb 2000

"Well, okay," the hesitant wife agreed, "but on two conditions.
First, if it hurts, you will stop right away, and second..." she
continued, "you have to promise we won't go past my mother's house."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 17 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
COMIX IN ASCII
=================================================================

________________________
(__) / \
(oo) ( Udderly Cool Cows! )
/-------\/ --'\________________________/
/ | ||
* ||----||
^^ ^^
Cow

__ o oo o
(__) \||/
(__) (__)
(oo) (oo)
/-------\/ /-------\/
/ | || / | ||
* ||----|| * ||----||
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
East Indian Cow Injun Cow

(__)
(oo)
\/
(__) ||
($$) ||
/-------\/ ||
/ | IRS || ||
* ||----|| /------- /
^^ ^^ / | ||
Tax Accowntant * ||----||
^^ ^^
Cowraffe

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 18 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
INTERNET INFO
=================================================================

! = New entries this week
? = not responding
?? = unknown content, doesn't look like fidonet

. -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
| FIDONET-RELATED SITES |
` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
Last update: Jan 15, 2000

FidoNet
Homepage: http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews: http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html
SDS Files: http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
FTSC page: http://www.ftsc.org/
General: http://owls.com/~jerrys/fidonet.html
List server:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fidonet-discussion

Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org
Region 10: http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html
http://www.tnl-online.com/andy/rgn10.htm
Net 103: http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
Net 203: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
Net 2410: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/net2410/
Region 12: http://sparkys.dyndns.org
Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
Net 264: http://www.net264.org/
Net 275: http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
Region 14:
Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
Region 15: <vacant>
Region 16: <vacant>
Region 17: http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/
Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

Region 19: <Vacant>
Net 124: http://www.startext.net/np/net124
http://texoma.net/~flv
Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/
Zone 1 Elist http://members.xoom.com/echolist/

Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 19 7 Feb 2000

Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)
Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)
? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)
Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
Region 42: http://www.fido.cz
! Net422: http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian)
?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org

Zone 4:
Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese)
Region 90:
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org
Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
(Chinese)

Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
address. The email is translated as follows
[email protected] will automatically route to the
appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will
also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it
would still be [email protected], but you get the idea.

Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
time between when the message is received, and when it is
sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 20 7 Feb 2000

v-email flag [email protected]
| email address or
Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
| | |latency|
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 | | | |
10/3 @ Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c
10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c
12/12 @ Ken Wilson | FTP | T1 | $24mo.
13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k,!| n/c
103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
105/72 @ Larry James | FTP | aDSL | $50/yr
106/1 @ Matt Bedynek | BinkP, FTP | DS-3,5| $5/$15 mo
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c
107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16
167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c
211/417 @ Korombos | BinkP,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE | 33.6k | n/c
244/2 | Kari Suomela | FTP,VMoT,BinkP,UUE| T1,! | $25.00/mo
246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c
271/140 @ Tom Barstow | UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | 128k | n/c
396/1 @ John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1,10 | $5/mo
396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr
2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo
2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
2624/306 @ David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c
3613/2 @ [email protected] | UUE | 28.8 | n/c
3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3639/93 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c
3651/9 @ Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c
203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c
221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c
236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
284/800 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
292/626 | Filip Ruymen | Binkp, UUE | 128K+ | n/c
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 21 7 Feb 2000

406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
464/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | 19.2 | n/c
465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c
2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c
2446/301 | Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c

--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks

----------------------------------------------
Fidonet oriented news servers

news.osirusoft.com
news.tardis.net

Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
irc.isonline.com
irc.killaz-r-us.com
irc.korombos.org

----------------------------------------------

Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301, [email protected], and
complaints to [email protected] .

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 22 7 Feb 2000

=================================================================
FIDONEWS INFO
=================================================================

Masthead

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720, [email protected] |
| Webmaster: Jim Barchuk, [email protected] |
| Columnist: Joe Jared, 1:103/0, [email protected] |
| (Fido Via Internet Hubs column) |
| Columnist: Warren D. Bonner, 1:103/401, [email protected] |
| (Warren uses the pen name "Ol'WDB") |
| Humor: Roy Reed, [email protected] |
| Features: Frank Vest, 1:124/6308.1 |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince |
| Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, |
| Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA
94141, and are used with permission.

Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet.
Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2000 by Douglas Myers, though authors
retain rights to their contributed articles. Opinion expressed by
the authors is strictly their own. Noncommercial duplication and
distribution within Fidonet is encouraged. Authors are encouraged
to send their articles in ASCII text to Douglas Myers at one of his
addresses above.

The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file area
FIDONEWS, and is published as echomail in the echo FIDONEWS. These
sources are normally available through your Network Coordinator.
The current and past issues are also available from the following
sources:

+ -- -- -- -- -- -- - FIDONEWS AVAILABILITY - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:270/720, 1:140/1, or 1:396/1 |
| ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/ |
| ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/ |
| http://www.fidonews.org |
| email subscription: [email protected] |
| (subject: help body: list) |
| ftp mail: [email protected] (subject: help) |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
FIDONEWS 17-06 Page 23 7 Feb 2000

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