F I D O N E W S Volume 16, Number 29 19 July 1999

F I D O N E W S Volume 16, Number 29 19 July 1999
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | +27-41-581-5913 [5:5/23] |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: |
| | (*) | \ )) | Henk Wolsink 5:7104/2 |
| |__U__| / \// | |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Submission address: FidoNews Editor 5:5/23 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MORE addresses: |
| |
| submissions=> [email protected] |
| [email protected] |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies of FidoNews or the internet gateway FAQ |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1
2. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 2
The Slippery Slope of Control - D Myers .................. 2
3. ARTICLES ................................................. 4
FidoNet Via Internet Hubs ................................ 4
NAB & Z1B Echo Diff ...................................... 5
North American Backbone Echo Changes [Mar-Apr] ........... 7
Z1 Backbone Echo Changes [Mar-Apr] ....................... 9
4. COLUMNS .................................................. 11
ECHO TALK - Why motorcycles are better than women ........ 11
5. COMIX IN ASCII ........................................... 12
Victory Party after Z1C(ow) Election ..................... 12
6. NOTICES .................................................. 13
Future History ........................................... 13
7. FIDONET BY INTERNET ...................................... 14
8. FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 16
FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 1 19 Jul 1999

=================================================================
EDITORIAL
=================================================================

Greetings,

Yes, thanks very much. I'm feeling just about 100% again. :-)
This flu is something else, believe me. But don't ask me what it
was, I'm no doctor. ;-)

However, on with the show.

According to Doug's article, there is a new Z1C. Great. Soon we will
see an official announcement in FidoNews, or will we?

In order to determine how many of you read the Snooze, either by when
you receive this copy, reading it on-line at your nearest BBS in the
FIDONEWS echo or at http://www.fidonews.org or by whatever means, is
it possible to let me know, by sending me either a Netmail at
5:7104/2 or e-mail me at [email protected] -- I'll appriciate
your reply. Thanks in advance.

And as usually, happy reading,

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 2 19 Jul 1999

=================================================================
GUEST EDITORIAL
=================================================================

The Slippery Slope of Control
Douglas Myers, 1:270/720
[email protected]

Mike O'Conner, Region 12 Coordinator, is possibly one of the most
respected coordinators in Fidonet. He was widely perceived as a
critic of "control" politics when he allowed Region 10 "refugee"
nodes to join Region 12 rather than put up with the control politics
which were at issue in Region 10 at the time. It's ironic that
today he faces the criticism of his own region over a control issue.

MIke is under fire for not accurately reporting his region's choice
of candidate in the Z1C election. During this last week in the Z1C
election process, Net Coordinators polled their nets to determine
the sysops' choice for Z1C. This information was to be relayed to
the RC who would then vote in accordance with his region's wishes in
the closed election.

Region 12's choice for Z1C was me, followed by David Moufarrege.
MIke, however, waited until most of the RC votes were in and took
note that I didn't have sufficient support to win the election, and
that David was the only candidate who could win on the first ballot.
So he cast the deciding vote for David.

Ross Cassell, Election Coordinator, responded to a netmail protest
from Region 12. In this response, Ross ruled that Mike's vote would
not be overturned. Though he conceded that Mike was answerable to
his region for his actions, he pointed out that the elections rules
did not have a provision for forcing an RC to vote in accordance
with his region's wishes. He also pointed out that a reversal of
this vote was unlikely to produce a different winner.

Under Ross' scenario, had Mike actually reported the R12 vote
accurately, it would have forced a decision by Bob Satti to break
the tie for second place between Dallas Hinton and me, and then a
runoff between David and the survivor in second place. Ross feels
that David would have picked up one of the votes from the regions
whose candidate was eliminated, thus giving him the majority he
needed on the second round.

As a Region 13 sysop, I'll certainly have no say in the upcoming
Region 12 RC election... and I certainly have no authority over the
Z1C Election Coordinator. However, as an "aggrieved party," I'll
claim my traditional Fidonet right to add my two cents to the
discussion :)

Strangely, I've got no anger towards Mike O'Conner. All he took
which may have been mine is a bit of fleeting "score." I believe
that I'd have needed to carry at least one other region which went
to David in order to mount a meaningful second round challenge. I
FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 3 19 Jul 1999

almost sympathize with Mike... he was placed in an untenable
position. The RCs were concerned about the consequences of a direct
sysop election and retained their traditional control over the final
results. Though they made a pledge to represent the will of their
regions, is it so surprising that one of their rank yielded to the
temptation of control at the last moment?

Nor do I have a quarrel with the election coordinator. It was clear
from the start that the RCs would have ultimate control over the
final selection of the Z1C, and I doubt that the vote could or
should be overturned now.

I would argue instead that the RCs learn from this experience and
apply it to the next election. Consider that the time has come for
a direct count of the sysops' vote. Consider that the expected
pandemonium and degeneration of the election process during the
period when sysop voting was happening never materialized. Consider
that the most significant breach of the election process, though it
may have been well-meant, came from among your number.

Consider that the representative method of voting had an unintended
(and, as yet, unanalyzed) consequence: that some of the most
interested and qualified sysops did not vote in this election. I'm
referring mostly to the net coordinators who mostly seemed to
suppress their own voice in favor of shepherding their net's vote.
It seemed to me that most of the nets where detailed information was
supplied were small nets, three and four nodes... so these net
coordinators may have been as much as 25% of the eligible voters. I
don't know if NCs counted themselves into the voting tally they
reported, but I suspect that NCs suppressed their own vote when it
would have overturned the results from the rest of their nodes. I
have no way of proving this and I doubt that it materially affected
the actual election results in the current election... but it can't
be good to have as much as 25% of the electorate involved in the
mechanics of the election.

Finally, my condolences to David Moufarrege. You won this election
convincingly, you ran a clean campaign, and you deserve to assume
the Z1C position without the stigma which this election blemish will
attach to you. It's unfair and deplorable, but some will use this
to question the legitimacy of your election... to deny you your
mandate. Some will forget, or choose to ignore, that you actually
were the choice of the sysops in this election. I'd like to take
this opportunity to remind them.

Let's all not forget that this is the closest which Zone 1 has ever
come to a direct sysop election for Z1C. Though it may not have
been perfect, the election was a success in that the sysops of Zone
1 had a real voice in the ZC selection.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 4 19 Jul 1999

=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================

Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed | Basic Rate
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 |
10/3 | Brenda Donovabn | FTP,UUE,BinkP | T1? | $??/$10
12/12 | Ken Wilson | FTP | T1 | $24mo.
13/25 | Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
103/301 | Joe Jared | BinkP | aDSL | n/c
105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
106/1 | Matt Bedynek | BinkP, FTP | 128k | n/c
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | 64k | $5/mo.
107/451 | Andy Knifel | FTP, VMoT, UUE | 33.6 | n/c
140/12 | Bob Seaborn | FTP | T1 | $5/$20
2424/101 | Kari Suomela | BinkP | ??? | n/c
270/101 | George Peace | FTP | T1 | $30mo.
271/140 | Tom Barstow | UUE | T1 | n/c
275/1 | Joshua Ecklund | UUE | 28.8 | $10/yr
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
342/3 | Richard Dodsworth | BinkP | ??? | n/c
345/0 | Todd Cochrane | FTP | T1 | n/c
346/250 | Aran Spence | FTP,UUE | T1 | $10mo.
396/1 | John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1 | $15mo.
396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr
2401/305 | Peter Rocca | FTP,UUE | T1 | unkn
2424/10 | Alec Grynspan | FTP,UUE | T1 | n/c
2604/104 | Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo.
2613/404 | David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+ | n/c
2624/306 | D. Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | $15yr.
3632/84 | Robert Todd | BinkP | ??? | n/c
3651/9 | Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
23/999 | Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | ??? | n/c
221/360 | Tommi Koivula | BinkP | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
252/300 | Sean Rima | BinkP, UUE, FTP| 128k | n/c
254/175 | Alex Kemp | UUE | 56k | n/c
284/800 | Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | ??? | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | ??? | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
335/535 | Mario Mure | VMoT,UUE | 64k | n/c
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 5 19 Jul 1999

465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | ??? | n/c
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata | BinkP | ??? | n/c
2411/413 | Dennis Dittrich | UUE | 64k | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 | Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
774/605 | Barry Blackford | BinkP | ??? | n/c

--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT, UUE | ??? | n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c

--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks

Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301, [email protected], and
complaints to [email protected].

-----------------------------------------------------------------

NAB & Z1B Echo Diff
by Lisa Gronke, 1:105/9
[email protected]

diff backbone.na (04-Jul-99) backbone.z1b (04-Jul-99) [edited]

Echos on the NAB but not on the Z1B
-----------------------------------
60S_70S_PROGROCK 60's/70's Progressive Rock Music Echo
AIDS-HIV AIDS & HIV
ALASKA GENERAL CHAT FOR ALASKA
AMIGA_FILEFIND Filefind Echo for AMIGA computers
AMIGA_INT Amiga Worldwide
AMY_COMMS International Amiga Telecommunications
ARIZONA GENERAL CHAT FOR ARIZONA
ARKANSAS_ GENERAL CHAT FOR ARKANSAS
ASL American Sign Language Echo
ATHEISM Intra-atheist education and discussion echo.
CALIFORNIA GENERAL CHAT FOR CALIFORNIA
COLORADO GENERAL CHAT FOR COLORADO
CONFED_HERITAGE Confederate Heritage
CONNECTICUT GENERAL CHAT FOR CONNECTICUT
DELAWARE GENERAL CHAT FOR DELAWARE
FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 6 19 Jul 1999

DELPHI Borland Delphi Developers' Echo
EC_SUPPORT Ezycom BBS Support for Sysop's
EQUUS HORSE DISCUSSION ECHO
FLORIDA GENERAL CHAT FOR FLORIDA
GEORGIA GENERAL CHAT FOR GEORGIA
HAM_REQ Amateur Radio File Announcements & Requests
HAWAII GENERAL CHAT FOR HAWAII
I95 Cruising Interstate 95
IDAHO GENERAL CHAT FOR IDAHO
ILLINOIS GENERAL CHAT FOR ILLINOIS
INDIANA GENERAL CHAT FOR INDIANA
IOWA GENERAL CHAT FOR IOWA
KANSAS GENERAL CHAT FOR KANSAS
KENTUCKY GENERAL CHAT FOR KENTUCKY
LOUISIANA GENERAL CHAT FOR LOUISIANA
MAINE GENERAL CHAT FOR MAINE
MARYLAND GENERAL CHAT FOR MARYLAND
MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL CHAT FOR MASSACHUSETTS
MEXICAN_LINK Mexico's International Link (Multilingual)
MILITARY Military General Conference for all services.
MINNESOTA GENERAL CHAT FOR MINNESOTA
MISSISSIPPI GENERAL CHAT FOR MISSISSIPPI
MISSOURI GENERAL CHAT FOR MISSOURI
MLM Multi-Level Marketing conference
MONTANA GENERAL CHAT FOR MONTANA
M_GRIPE Gripe: The Mother of All Echos
NATURIST Naturist/nudist discussion
NAVY U.S. Navy Support Echo Conference
NEBRASKA GENERAL CHAT FOR NEBRASKA
NEVADA GENERAL CHAT FOR NEVADA
NEW_HAMPSHIRE GENERAL CHAT FOR NEW HAMPSHIRE
NEW_JERSEY GENERAL CHAT FOR NEW JERSEY
NEW_MEXICO GENERAL CHAT FOR NEW MEXICO
NEW_YORK GENERAL CHAT FOR NEW YORK
NORTH_DAKOTA GENERAL CHAT FOR NORTH DAKOTA
OHIO GENERAL CHAT FOR OHIO
OJ_SIMPSON O.J. Simpson discussion
OREGON GENERAL CHAT FOR OREGON
PARROTS PARROTS CONFERENCE
PAUL_REVERE The Paul Revere 2AM Grassroots Conference
PCWRITE PCWrite and Multi-Platform Computing
RCM Radio Control Model II
RHODE_ISLAND GENERAL CHAT FOR RHODE ISLAND
SET Setian Discussions (Formerly "Base of Set")
SOUTH_CAROLINA GENERAL CHAT FOR SOUTH CAROLINA
SOUTH_DAKOTA GENERAL CHAT FOR SOUTH DAKOTA
SUPERBBS SuperBBS Support Echo
TENNESSEE GENERAL CHAT FOR TENNESSEE
THEIST_WATCH American Atheist Watch on Religious Shenanigans
TRADEWARS Conference for Discussion of the Game Tradewars
UTAH GENERAL CHAT FOR UTAH
VERMONT GENERAL CHAT FOR VERMONT
VIN_MAISON The Wine Lovers Echo! Vinting, Tasting & Sharing
VIRGINIA GENERAL CHAT FOR VIRGINIA
WASHINGTON GENERAL CHAT FOR WASHINGTON
WEST_VIRGINIA GENERAL CHAT FOR WEST VIRGINIA
FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 7 19 Jul 1999

WISCONSIN GENERAL CHAT FOR WISCONSIN
WYOMING GENERAL CHAT FOR WYOMING
Z1-ELECTION Alternate Z1C Election discussion area

Echos on the Z1B but not on the NAB
-----------------------------------
None

The NAB list, backbone.na (04-Jul-99) has 798 echos.
The Z1B list, backbone.z1b (04-Jul-99) has 724 echos.
=======================================================

-----------------------------------------------------------------

North American Backbone Echo Changes [Mar-Apr]
by Lisa Gronke, 1:105/9
[email protected]

Summary of NAB echo changes during Mar & Apr.

Brought to you courtesy of (unix) diff.

diff backbone.na 07-Mar-99 backbone.na 02-May-99 [edited].

Added to the NAB list of echos
------------------------------
> ALASKA GENERAL CHAT FOR ALASKA
> ARIZONA GENERAL CHAT FOR ARIZONA
> ARKANSAS_ GENERAL CHAT FOR ARKANSAS
> BBBS.ENGLISH The International BBBS Support Echo
> CALIFORNIA GENERAL CHAT FOR CALIFORNIA
> COLORADO GENERAL CHAT FOR COLORADO
> CONNECTICUT GENERAL CHAT FOR CONNECTICUT
> DDS_ECHO DDS FDN Administrative Echo
> DELAWARE GENERAL CHAT FOR DELAWARE
> EBAY_CHAT A place to discuss EBAY buys and sells
> FIDO_DISTRIBUTION Echomail Distribution System Discussions
> FLORIDA GENERAL CHAT FOR FLORIDA
> GEORGIA GENERAL CHAT FOR GEORGIA
> HAWAII GENERAL CHAT FOR HAWAII
> IDAHO GENERAL CHAT FOR IDAHO
> ILLINOIS GENERAL CHAT FOR ILLINOIS
> INDIANA GENERAL CHAT FOR INDIANA
> IOWA GENERAL CHAT FOR IOWA
> KANSAS GENERAL CHAT FOR KANSAS
> KENTUCKY GENERAL CHAT FOR KENTUCKY
> KOSOVO Discussions about the events in Kosovo
> LOUISIANA GENERAL CHAT FOR LOUISIANA
> MAINE GENERAL CHAT FOR MAINE
> MARYLAND GENERAL CHAT FOR MARYLAND
> MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL CHAT FOR MASSACHUSETTS
> MINNESOTA GENERAL CHAT FOR MINNESOTA
> MISSISSIPPI GENERAL CHAT FOR MISSISSIPPI
> MISSOURI GENERAL CHAT FOR MISSOURI
> MONTANA GENERAL CHAT FOR MONTANA
FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 8 19 Jul 1999

> NEBRASKA GENERAL CHAT FOR NEBRASKA
> NEVADA GENERAL CHAT FOR NEVADA
> NEW_HAMPSHIRE GENERAL CHAT FOR NEW HAMPSHIRE
> NEW_JERSEY GENERAL CHAT FOR NEW JERSEY
> NEW_MEXICO GENERAL CHAT FOR NEW MEXICO
> NEW_YORK GENERAL CHAT FOR NEW YORK
> NORTH_DAKOTA GENERAL CHAT FOR NORTH DAKOTA
> OHIO GENERAL CHAT FOR OHIO
> OREGON GENERAL CHAT FOR OREGON
> RHODE_ISLAND GENERAL CHAT FOR RHODE ISLAND
> SOUTH_CAROLINA GENERAL CHAT FOR SOUTH CAROLINA
> SOUTH_DAKOTA GENERAL CHAT FOR SOUTH DAKOTA
> TENNESSEE GENERAL CHAT FOR TENNESSEE
> UTAH GENERAL CHAT FOR UTAH
> VERMONT GENERAL CHAT FOR VERMONT
> VIRGINIA GENERAL CHAT FOR VIRGINIA
> WASHINGTON GENERAL CHAT FOR WASHINGTON
> WEBTV WEBTV
> WEST_VIRGINIA GENERAL CHAT FOR WEST VIRGINIA
> WISCONSIN GENERAL CHAT FOR WISCONSIN
> WYOMING GENERAL CHAT FOR WYOMING
> ZCC_SUNSHINE Crosspost msgs from ZCC-closed-conference

Removed from the NAB list of echos
----------------------------------
< FIDO2000 FidoNet 2000 Conference
< FIDOWEB FidoNet Web Page Conference
< GOLDED.BETA GoldED Alpha, Beta, Gamma discussion.
< INET_NODELIST FidoNet Nodelisting of Internet Sites
< WIN99 Echo for the discussion of Windows 99 software

-----------------------------------------------------------------
o There are 795 echos in backbone.na [02-May-99] (up 46)

North American Backbone Echo Changes [May-Jun]
by Lisa Gronke, 1:105/9
[email protected]

Summary of NAB echo changes during May & Jun.

Brought to you courtesy of (unix) diff.

diff backbone.na 02-May-99 backbone.na 04-Jul-99 [edited].

Added to the NAB list of echos
------------------------------
> ER Er Hit TV Show
> FIDOTEST Fidonet TEST echo and malfunction conference
> FTN_INTERNET FTN Internet Discussion
> HWDEBATE Computer hardware debate
> HWECHO Computer hardware discussions
> MILLENNIUM Millennium TV show discussions
> REGIONS REGIONS echo
> SUPER-BASTARD Super Bastards Echo
> Z1-ELECTION Alternate Z1C Election discussion area

FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 9 19 Jul 1999

Removed from the NAB list of echos
----------------------------------
< A_THEIST A_Theist - State/church separation
< BURL Serialized Electronic Novels
< CARPENTERS Fans of Karen & Richard Carpenter & their music
< EBAY_CHAT A place to discuss EBAY buys and sells
< GENEALOGY.CDN Canadian Genealogy
< WIN.SYSOP Windows-Based BBS Software Support

-----------------------------------------------------------------
o There are 798 echos in backbone.na [04-Jul-99] (up 3)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Z1 Backbone Echo Changes [Mar-Apr]
by Lisa Gronke, 1:105/9
[email protected]

Summary of Z1B echo changes during Mar & Apr.

Brought to you courtesy of (unix) diff.

diff backbone.z1b 07-Mar-99 backbone.z1b 02-May-99 [edited].

Added to the Z1B list of echos
------------------------------
> BBBS.ENGLISH The International BBBS Support Echo
> DDS_ECHO DDS FDN Administrative Echo
> EBAY_CHAT A place to discuss EBAY buys and sells!
> FIDO_DISTRIBUTION FidoNet Echomail Distribution System Discussions
> KOSOVO Discussions about the events in Kosovo
> WEBTV WEBTV
> WIN2000 Windows 2000 Echo
> ZCC_SUNSHINE Crosspost msgs from ZCC-closed-conference

Removed from the Z1B list of echos
----------------------------------
< FIDO2000 FidoNet 2000 Conference
< FIDOWEB FidoNet Web Page Conference
< GOLDED.BETA GoldED Alpha, Beta, Gamma discussion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
o There are 748 echos in backbone.z1b [02-May-99] (up 5)

Z1 Backbone Echo Changes [May-Jun]
by Lisa Gronke, 1:105/9
[email protected]

Summary of Z1B echo changes during May & Jun.

Brought to you courtesy of (unix) diff.

diff backbone.z1b 02-May-99 backbone.z1b 04-Jul-99 [edited].

Added to the Z1B list of echos
FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 10 19 Jul 1999

------------------------------
> ER Er Hit TV Show
> FIDOTEST Fidonet TEST echo and malfunction conference
> FTN_INTERNET FTN Internet Discussion
> HWDEBATE Computer hardware debate
> HWECHO Computer hardware discussions
> MILLENNIUM Millennium TV show discussions
> REGIONS REGIONS echo.
> SUPER-BASTARD Super Bastards Echo

Removed from the Z1B list of echos
----------------------------------
< 60S_70S_PROGROCK 60's/70's Progressive Rock Music Echo
< AIDS-HIV AIDS & HIV
< AMIGA_FILEFIND Filefind Echo for AMIGA computers
< AMIGA_INT Amiga Worldwide
< AMY_COMMS International Amiga Telecommunications
< ASL American Sign Language Echo
< ATHEISM Intra-atheist education and discussion echo.
< A_THEIST A_Theist - State/church separation
< BURL Serialized Electronic Novels
< CARPENTERS Fans of Karen & Richard Carpenter & their music
< CONFED_HERITAGE Confederate Heritage
< DELPHI Borland Delphi Developers' Echo
< EBAY_CHAT A place to discuss EBAY buys and sells!
< EC_SUPPORT Ezycom BBS Support for Sysop's
< GENEALOGY.CDN Canadian Genealogy
< HAM_REQ Amateur Radio File Announcements & Requests
< I95 Cruising Interstate 95
< MEXICAN_LINK Mexico's International Link (Multilingual)
< MILITARY Military General Conference for all services.
< MLM Multi-Level Marketing conference
< M_GRIPE Gripe: The Mother of All Echos
< NATURIST Naturist/nudist discussion
< NAVY U.S. Navy Support Echo Conference
< PAUL_REVERE The Paul Revere 2AM Grassroots Conference
< PCWRITE PCWrite and Multi-Platform Computing
< RCM Radio Control Model II
< SET Setian Discussions (Formerly "Base of Set")
< SUPERBBS SuperBBS Support Echo
< THEIST_WATCH American Atheist Watch on Religious Shenanigans
< TRADEWARS Conference for Discussion of the Game Tradewars
< VIN_MAISON The Wine Lovers Echo!
< WIN.SYSOP Windows-Based BBS Software Support

-----------------------------------------------------------------
o There are 724 echos in backbone.z1b [04-Jul-99] (down 24)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 11 19 Jul 1999

=================================================================
COLUMNS
=================================================================

. -- -- -- -- -- ECHO TALK -- -- -- -- -- .
| Food for thought from Fido's echomail. |
| Purloined without permission by D Myers |
` -- -- -- -- -- -- - -- -- -- -- -- -- '

This week's "contribution" is taken from a message by Roy Witt in
the SUPER-BITCH echo. Roy retaliates for "Why women love cucumbers
better than men" in this expose on Why men love motercycles better
than women.

1. Motorcycles don't put on weight.
2. Motorcycles come with an instruction manual.
3. All you have to do is turn a key to turn one on.
4. With age, bikes become classics, women just get old and fat.
5. Motorcycles don't care if you have more than one bike.
6. New paint is cheaper than a face lift.
7. Just trade in when bored with it.
8. Only have to mess with fluids every 3000 miles, not monthly.
9. Bikes have no creepy friends who hate men.
10. The bike is always there for you.
11. Motorcycles don't mind if you ride another one.
12. Motorcycles look good 24/7.
13. Bikes don't have facial hair.
14. Bikes don't need their fork legs shaved every day.
15. Motorcycles are ready to ride all the time.
16. Motorcycles don't look like their mothers in five years.
17. Or act like them.
18. Gas is cheaper than dinner and a movie.
19. Bikes don't look around.
20. Bikes like to go fast.
21. Motorcycles don't play mind games.
22. A bike will flat ass kill you, not drag it out in marriage.
23. A bike has gauges so you tell can what it's doing.
24. Motorcycles don't retain water and get bitchy.
25. Bikes don't care how loud the music is.
26. Bikes don't talk back.
27. Motorcycles are not interested in families.
28. Bikes don't get into religion, ever.
29. Motorcycles don't hog the bath room in the morning.
30. Bikes don't need make-up to look good.
31. Motorcycles don't care if your socks don't match.
32. When a bike backfires, it's only noise.
33. Bikes never mistrust your judgement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 12 19 Jul 1999

=================================================================
COMIX IN ASCII
=================================================================

Victory Party after Z1C(ow) Election

(*) (*)
(__) ^ ^ (__)
(oo) | | | @(oo)@
[..] | = | [..]@@
\ | U (-) | | | | (-) U @@@
|| ==<_\=====/_|______=_____|=|____________=__|____\====/_>== ||@
|| ) |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ( ||
||___)==||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||==(___||
|\====| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |====/|
| \ | | | | / |
= * = = = = * =

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FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 13 19 Jul 1999

=================================================================
NOTICES
=================================================================

Future History

24 Jul 1999
XIII Pan American Games [through 8 Aug 99].

10 Sep 1999
10th anniversary of Zone 5 operations.

26 Oct 1999
Thirty years from release Abbey Road album by the Beatles.

31 Dec 1999
Hogmanay, Scotland. The New Year that can't be missed.

1 Jan 2000
The 20th Century, C.E., is still taking place thru 31 Dec.

1 Jun 2000
EXPO 2000 World Exposition in Hannover (Germany) opens.

15 Sep 2000
Sydney (Australia) Summer Olympiad opens.

21 Sep 2000
10 years of FidoNet in +7 (xUSSR)

1 Jan 2001
This is the actual start of the new millennium, C.E.

-- If YOU have something which you would like to see in this
Future History, please send a note to the FidoNews Editor.

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FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 14 19 Jul 1999

=================================================================
FIDONET BY INTERNET
=================================================================

This is a list of all FidoNet-related sites reported to the
FidoNews Editor as of this issue; see the notice at the end.

FidoNet:

Homepage http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
http://209.77.228.66/fidonews.html [ASCII]
WWW sources http://travel.to/fidonet/
FTSC page http://www.ftsc.org/
Echomail [pending]
General http://owls.com/~jerrys/fidonet.html
List servers:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fidonet-discussion

============

Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org

Region 10: http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html

Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/

Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm

Net 264: http://www.net264.org/

Region 14:

Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/

Region 17: http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/

Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

Region 19: http://members.home.net/hbh3/r19

Zone 1 Elist http://www.baltimoremd.com/elist/

============

Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org

Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)

Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido (English/German)

Region 25: http://www.bsnet.co.uk/net2502/net/

Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 15 19 Jul 1999

Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm

Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)

Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)

Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/

Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/

Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html

Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)

Region 42: http://www.fido.cz

Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

============

Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org

============

Zone 4:

Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

============

Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

============

Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org

Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html (Chinese)

============

Pages listed above are as submitted to the FidoNews Editor,
and generally reflect Zone and Regional Web Page sites. If
no Regional site is submitted, the first Network page from
that Region is used in its place. Generally, Regional pages
should list access points to all Networks within the Region.

TCP/IP accessible node access information should be submitted
to the FidoNews Editor for inclusion in their Region or Zone.

-----------oOo-------------

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FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 16 19 Jul 1999

=================================================================
FIDONEWS INFORMATION
=================================================================

------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION -------

Editor: Henk Wolsink

Editors Emeriti: Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell,
Donald Tees, Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg

"FidoNews Editor"
FidoNet 5:5/23
BBS +27-41-581-5913, 2400/9600/V34

more addresses:
Henk Wolsink -- 5:7104/2, [email protected]

(Postal Service mailing address)
FidoNews Editor
P.O. Box 12325
Port Elizabeth,
6006
South Africa

------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation
of individual articles contributed by their authors or their
authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation
does not diminish the rights of the authors. OPINIONS EXPRESSED in
these articles ARE THOSE OF THE AUTHORS and not necessarily those of
FidoNews and/or the Editor.

Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright (C) 1999 Henk Wolsink. All rights reserved. Duplication
and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For
use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or
the Editor.

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews Editor via manual download or
file-request, or from various sites in FidoNet and the Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above postal
address. File-request FIDONEWS for the current Issue. File-request
FNEWS for the current month in one archive. Or file-request specific
back Issue filenames in distribution format [FNEWSGnn.ZIP] for a
particular Issue. Monthly Volumes are available as FNWSmmmy.ZIP
where mmm = three letter month [JAN - DEC] and y = last digit of the
current year [9], i.e., FNWSJAN9.ZIP for all the Issues from Jan 99.

FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 17 19 Jul 1999

Annual volumes are available as FNEWSn.ZIP where n = the Volume number
1 - 16 for 1984 - 1999, respectively. Annual Volume archives range in
size from 48K to 1.4M.

INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via:

http://www.fidonews.org
** http://www.fidonet.org/fidonews.htm
** ftp://ftp.fidonet.org/pub/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.irvbbs.com/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/Fidonet/Fidonews

And in non-English formats via:

** http://www.hvc.ee/pats/fidonews (Estonian)
http://www.fidonet.pp.se/sfnews (Swedish)

** LINK HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED

*=*=*

You may obtain an email subscription to FidoNews by sending email to:

[email protected]

with a Subject line of: subscribe fnews-edist

and no message in the message body. To remove your name from the
email distribution use a Subject line of: unsubscribe fnews-edist
with no message to the same address above.

*

You may retrieve current and previous Issues of FidoNews via FTPMail
by sending email to:

[email protected]

with a Subject line of: help

and FTPMail will immediately send a reply containing details and
instructions. When you actually make a file request, FTPMail will
respond in three stages. You find a link for this process on
www.fidonews.org.

*=*=*

You can read the current FidoNews Issue in HTML format at:

http://www.fidonews.org

and http://www.fidonet.dynip.com/public/fidonews/default.htm

and in the FIDONEWS echo.

FIDONEWS 16-29 Page 18 19 Jul 1999

STAR SOURCE for ALL Past Issues via FTP and file-request -
Available for FReq from 1:396/1 or by anonymous FTP from:

ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/

Each yearly archive also contains a listing of the Table-of-Contents
for that year's issues. The total set is currently about 13 Megs.

=*=*=*=

The current week's FidoNews are now also available almost immediately
after publication on the FidoNews Editor homepage on the World Wide
Web at:

http://209.77.228.66/fidonews.html

There are also links there to jim barchuk's HTML FidoNews source and
to John Souvestre's FTP site for the archives. There is also an
email link for sending in an article as message text. Drop on over.

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews Editor, or file-requestable
from 5:5/23 [5:7104/2] as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". ALL Zone Coordinators
should have copies of ARTSPEC.DOC. Please read it.

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA 94141,
and are used with permission.

"Disagreement is actually necessary,
or we'd all have to get in fights
or something to amuse ourselves
and create the requisite chaos."
-Tom Jennings

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