F I D O N E W S -- Vol.13 No.19 (06-May-1996)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS |
| _ | +1-519-570-4176 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editors: |
| | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| |__U__| / \// | |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Table of Contents
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1. Editorial..................................................... 1
2. Articles...................................................... 2
A_THEIST Echo on Zone 1 Backbone!........................... 2
HOLYSMOKE Echo is available on the Zone 1 Backbone!......... 3
Once again, there are no articles in the inbound............ 3
Fidonet will not die unless we let it!...................... 5
End of FidoNet or zone 1 problems?.......................... 6
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 9
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Editorial
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FidoNews 13-19 Page: 2 06 May 1996
I have one application for the position of snooze editor.
Following the procedure of Tom Jennings, I will combine them
into a text file available for freq as the applications come
in, and make an announcement in 6-8 weeks. I will keep people
informed in these editorials.
There are several good articles from Europe in today's issue,
and a European editor might well be in order. I would also be
interested in any ideas on changes that may be appropriate at
this time. For example, perhaps we should have an editor in
each zone, and alternate editorials.
========================================================================
Articles
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A_THEIST Echo on Zone 1 Backbone!
Christopher Baker
Rights On! 1:374/14
A_THEIST Echo Available
A_theism means free of religion in the way a_political means
free of politics or a_sexual means free of sex
characteristics or drives.
With that in mind and ever cognizant of the continued
pressure of religion to intrude itself into our government
and its operations, the A_THEIST Echo is provided to inform
and alarm and hopefully wake up the sleeping and too long
silent majority to the peril on our doorstep.
It is a Zone 1 Backbone Echo Hosted and Moderated by Rights
On! at 1:374/14 and Christopher Baker [card carrying member of
American Atheists, Inc.] and by Jackson Harding at 3:800/857
in Hawthorndene_SA_Australia. Links may be obtained from your
local Backbone source connection. Zone 3 is being Hubbed
through 3:800/857.
The Echo is open to anyone who can discuss, without
proselytizing, the extreme desirability of maintaining the
absolute separation of State and church in this country as
provided for in our Constitution.
A sample of the first few messages and the statement of
purpose of the Echo is available as A_THEIST.ZIP from this
system anytime except 0100-0130 ET and Zone 1 ZMH [USR HST
V32 online] if you wish to get an idea of whether to commit
disk space to the Echo.
It has been on the Backbone for years. Ask your Backbone
connection to get it for you! The complete info is available
in the current ELISTnnn.XXX file available from your NEC or
REC or here. [Request ELIST.]
FidoNews 13-19 Page: 3 06 May 1996
I hope you will join us or ask your Sysop to request a link
via their regular Backbone connections!
TTFN.
Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
HOLYSMOKE Echo is available on the Zone 1 Backbone!
Styx Allum
Out in the Styx, 1:152/20
HOLYSMOKE Echo is ready and waiting!
HOLYSMOKE is a Backbone Echo that originally sprang forth
from Out in the Styx of Oregon. It is carried on the
Zone 1 Backbone and sent into Zones 2, 3, and 6.
HOLYSMOKE is Moderated by Styx Allum on 1:152/20.
If any of you or your Sysops are interested in obtaining
this Echo, you or they should contact their regular,
Backbone Echo source! HOLYSMOKE has appeared in FIDONET.NA
[now BACKBONE.NA] since 26 Jul 92.
HOLYSMOKE is an Echo for debating the merits/demerits of
religions of all kinds in a friendly but contentious way.
It is open to anyone who cares to argue or cajole without
proselytizing or personal attacks. Wear your NOMEX undies!
The Echo is now fully activated and waiting for those with
an interest in fire or brimstone or a bucket of cold water.
The complete rules are posted regularly in the Echo and are
available in the current ELRUL archive published at 1:1/201.
Come and join us in the great debate!
Styx Allum, Host & Moderator
1:152/20
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again, there are no articles in the inbound.
From: Frank Ellermann (2:240/5815.1)
That's very sad, and the fourth time since december, if
I recall this correctly. But I guess you should know
that the snooze has many fans here in zone 2. There are
at least 3 systems here in Z2, where all back issues
from the beginning are available, not counting your
ex libris or Marge Robbins' system in Z1.
Many new nodes and points like me have nearly no other
source than these back issues, to understand something
about FidoNet's history. And therefore we need it.
FidoNews 13-19 Page: 4 06 May 1996
Our policy is far from what I want it to be, but I
believe literally in its following statement:
FidoNews and the node lists are the glue that holds us
together. Without them, we cease to be a community, and
become just another random collection of bulletin boards.
I hope that someone notices the little joke behind this
quotation (?)
> I think, perhaps, that the writer of a few weeks back
> was correct. I think that perhaps I should resign this
> post.
I think that perhaps you should wait a year, because our
net has now reached a critical point, it will change soon
or it will slowly die. Till now from your point of view
it looks like dying, but maybe you're missing the first
beginnings of a new start here in Z2.
Just a few facts, the most important event for FidoNet
was the release of Binkley 2.60 some weeks ago, I guess
that many developpers are already busy to improve it.
BTW, Vince sat on your chair for several years, and he
had also to publish some very thin or sad FidoNews...
Then in Z2 we have now an approved user flag ENC, which
finally allows for an easy arrangement of "secure" mail
routing - no big deal, but something happens, the net
is still alive. One of your predecessors (TJ :-) has
written several editorials on PGP, and now 5 years
later our coords allow to promote it actively in Fido,
just have a look in the Z2 nodelist segment. Mentioning
Tom, there have been at least two issues, where he has
published interesting Fido-historical stuff and nothing
else - apparently this situation of having no articles
is not so new.
And last but not least in my region 2:24 we now have a
democratic regional policy compliant with P4, it only
needs an IC's approvement to be fully in force. Maybe
you don't know it, R2:24 is about 10 to 20 percent of
FidoNet, Fido is still quite popular here and in some
other regions of Z2. I hope that Pablo will like it,
changing P4 from within its limitations is a kind of
catch 22.
I guess (and hope) that the next twelve months in Fido
will become quite interesting... like 1989, but this
time with a good end. It's still possible. So if you
quit now, you might regret it later, just wait a year.
> I would welcome letters suggesting a new editor.
FidoNews 13-19 Page: 5 06 May 1996
Just in case that there is absolutely no chance to
get you continuing your job, there is a node in R2:24,
who had already everything repared for a german clone
of FidoNews, i.e. he has set up your software and is
is willing to take over, if you are completely sure,
that you want to quit.
It's your decision. Managing the snooze from R2:24
could be quite difficult, I guess, and writing
english is nothing we're particular good in here...
(kind of a threat... the snooze to the krauts, is it
this you really want ? :-)
Anyway, if you're desperately decided to quit this
editor job, than Ralf Mahler 2:2433/433 is your man.
Bye for now, Frank
P.S.: If issue 19 would be empty again otherwise,
feel free to publish this mail as "letter to the
editor" ... of course I did not follow any ARTSPEC
considerations, deliberately, because I still hope
that you made up your mind and want to stay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonet will not die unless we let it!
From: Martin Noreke(1:201/40)
"Fidonet is dying!"
This seems to be the most common article in fidonews recently. I wish
to disagree, as it will only die if we let it. I am an active part in
2 zones, and can see a strong difference in how they work.
A comparison based on my experiences of Zone1 and Zone2 yeilds the
following in regards to mail flow:
In sweden (Zone2, Region20) netmail travels the same path as
echomail. This is done through "host" systems, usually the NC
himself. The NEC then keeps track of the administratic process, while
the NC keeps mail running (not a hard task if you have a stable
system), and also keeps up with NC duties such as nodelist. The
effect of this cooperation results in a netmail turnaround within
Zone2, of 2-3 days to get a reply if out of region, and 1 day if in
Sweden.
In Zone1, of which I only have a few months experince, netmail
travels a seperate path, through the *C structure, while echomail
travels through the *EC structure. Why? *C:s as I have understood it,
do not poll as often as *EC:s do, resulting in echomail being faster
than netmail. Echomail usually has a 2 day turnaround, to go from
net-backbone-net as I have experienced before. This results in a 4
day responce time. Considering that netmail is *slower* than
echomail, is it correct to be calling the postal service "snail
FidoNews 13-19 Page: 6 06 May 1996
mail"??? To boot, lots of systems in Zone1 don't even offer netmail
to their users, resulting in a no win situation. How are users
expected to keep on topic, if they can't use netmail to take OT
discussions out of echos? Snailmail? Sorry, they don't have netmail
access.
If we are to compete with the Internet, we have to use it to our
advantage, or at least be able to offer a better speed of service
than that which is currently available.
With all the fidonet systems currently hooked up to the internet, it
should be simple for one of them to be set up as a backbone. Any net
could then get an internet account, and send the mail cheaply
straight to the backbone system. This would result in faster, cheaper
mail, as well as making netmail what it could be. There should be no
charge involved for the nets wishing to get mail through the
internet, except the cost of the account. I motivate this with the
fact that so many have fixed lines already, many of them for free or
already payed for by their BBS service, that we should be able to
find a volunteer. Considering how widespread the Internet is, it
doesn't even have to be a Zone1 system.
In fact, N?C:s could poll the "international backbone" straight off,
giving all nets an equall opertunity for fast, speady mail. R?C:s
could care for regional mail, such as national conferences for
countries outside the US.
The sky is the limit on how far we can take this. We caould in fact
"rape" the Internet so far, that Fidonet would regain it's position
as a force to be reconned with, when it comes to friendly mail, and a
way to meet new people.
I poll Sweden just to keep in touch, and meet new people, since Zone1
mail is to slow for me. My Zone1 nodenumber (PVT), is mearly due to
the fact that I redistribute swedish mail to other nodes. If this was
not done, I would mearly be an "international point".
Scary thought, isn't it?
Well, thats all from me for this time, and I hope I wasn't to
incoherent for you to follow along with me.
/ Martin Noreke 1:201/40
2:201/293.16
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of FidoNet or zone 1 problems?
Or are the states the center of the universe?
by Werner Gottwald 2:2480/13.152
- Sorry to tell you but I can't stand these laments of the end of the
FidoNet anymore. I'm only a point in R24 and I see the amount of users
growing in Germany. So where is the problem?
FidoNews 13-19 Page: 7 06 May 1996
I had a look at some nodelists of this year. And I found some
interesting things I like to tell you.
First I looked at the different regions. Here you can see the zone 1.
Nodelist | Zone | Reg. | Nets | Nodes
-------------+-------+------+-------+-------
NODELIST.068 | 1 | 10 | 436 | 16245
NODELIST.082 | 1 | 10 | 433 | 16125
NODELIST.103 | 1 | 10 | 433 | 15821
NODELIST.110 | 1 | 10 | 432 | 15685
NODELIST.117 | 1 | 10 | 434 | 15583
NODELIST.124 | 1 | 10 | 434 | 15504
It's true, zone 1 is shrinking. Less nets and 741 nodes left FidoNet.
Zone 3 (Australia) shrinked a little bit, nearly 60 nodes less within a
quarter of a year.
In zone 4, 5 and 6 I found stagnation, nearly nothing changed.
So there must be about 810 nodes less in the last quarter of the year.
Let's make a calculation. Nodelist.068 minus Nodelist.124.
Nodelist | Zone | Reg. | Nets | Nodes
-------------+-------+------+-------+-------
NODELIST.068 | | 74 | 813 | 37174
( NODELIST.082 | | 74 | 809 | 36799 )
( NODELIST.103 | | 74 | 814 | 37010 )
( NODELIST.110 | | 74 | 815 | 36809 )
( NODELIST.117 | | 74 | 815 | 36591 )
NODELIST.124 | | 74 | 818 | 36592
-------------+-------+------+-------+-------
+ 5 - 582
There should be a decrease of 810 nodes! What's up with zone 2?
Should there be a growth?
Nodelist | Zone | Reg. | Nets | Nodes
-------------+-------+------+-------+-------
NODELIST.068 | 2 | 34 | 264 | 17584
NODELIST.082 | 2 | 34 | 264 | 17710
NODELIST.103 | 2 | 34 | 268 | 17862
NODELIST.110 | 2 | 34 | 269 | 17824
NODELIST.117 | 2 | 34 | 270 | 17808
NODELIST.124 | 2 | 34 | 270 | 17817
The number of nets grows! Even the amount of nodes rose. Why are there
233 nodes more than three months ago?
It has been necessary to look at the regions. And I found stagnation
in a lot of european countries. In some there are only a few nodes less.
Where to find the growth? Russia and the eastern countries are growing.
And they will grow. They found a way of independent communication. Now
FidoNews 13-19 Page: 8 06 May 1996
they can get informations direct from people who don't belong to the
government or write for them in newspapers. But they aren't well
supplied. With the rising amount of computers in the eastern countries,
the number of nodes will rise.
In R24(Germany) there has been a astonishing increase of nearly 100
nodes. Actually there are 7351 nodes. It seems to be a special western
country.
Here are also some big internet-provider like Compuserve and AOL, and
the maybe unknown EOL (europe online) and T-Online (german Telekom)
and a lot of small providers. So it would be easy to surf around in
the www. And the mails will be faster and so on.
What's so special?
We have still a telecommunication monopol. The german telekom can
(nearly) ask the charge they want to. So 10 hours online in i-net will
cost you about 90$ (US) a month (provider + telkom charge).
That's one reason.
The second reason is the speed of our datahighways. Last year I tested
AOL. The slow speed of the datahighway (what a joke) has been boring.
I was waiting all the time till I saw some uninteresting pictures or
texts. There will be some datahighways in germany next years, then it
will be interesting. Now I don't like to spend money for waiting only.
Third reason is the quality of the conferences. If you want to meet a
lot of twits or see no mails ...
These are some reasons FidoNet don't shrink in Germany.
At the beginning of the year, the nodes of R24 voted for a Region
Policy (it's still not acknowledged) and we work on a RegionEchomail
Policy. Our new REC will do his best to force it. This gave some of
the newbees a kick to stay in FidoNet and a few will be new nodes in
future.
I heard, users have to pay for netmail in the states. I can't believe
it. I'm point, mustn't pay anything for being one nor sending/receiving
netmail, I can give a contribution to my boss. Additionally my boss
gave me an Internet-address for free (and not only me, he has about
160 Points), so I can receive and write emails. The most of his users
don't use this service. If someone will use it extensionally, he know
what his boss must pay and will pay his own bill. Nobody likes to cheat
a kind person he knows.
Is it right american users are leaving the FidoNet cause they must pay
being a user in FidoNet? And they pay only a little more for better
oportunities in i-net? - Could be a point to think about.
read you in FidoNet
Werner
FidoNews 13-19 Page: 9 06 May 1996
========================================================================
Fidonews Information
========================================================================
------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------
Editor: Donald Tees
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar
Tom Jennings, Sylvia Maxwell
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)
more addresses:
Don -- 1:221/192,
[email protected]
(Postal Service mailing address)
FidoNews
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Canada
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voice: (519) 570-4899
Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation
of individual articles contributed by their authors or their
authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation
does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in
these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of
FidoNews.
Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright 1996 Donald Tees. All rights reserved. Duplication
and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use
in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds.
OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail
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INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org,
in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews.
Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may
freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to
[email protected]. No message or text or subject is
necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated
response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch
should now mail to
[email protected] rather than the
FidoNews 13-19 Page: 10 06 May 1996
previously listed address.
SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission.
' ' disgreement is actually necessary,
or we'd all have to get in fights
or semethin to amuse ourselves,,
and create the requisite chaos."
-Tom Jennings
-- END
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