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Table of Contents
1. ARTICLES ................................................. 1
How Much GARBAGE should a person put up with? ............ 1
Moderators BEWARE! ....................................... 8
2. LATEST VERSIONS .......................................... 10
Latest Software Versions ................................. 10
3. NOTICES .................................................. 12
The Interrupt Stack ...................................... 12
4. REPORTS .................................................. 13
Executive Committee Report ............................... 24
Report from Nominations and Elections Committee .......... 27
FidoNews 6-32 Page 1 7 Aug 1989
How Much GARBAGE should a person put up with?
============================================
By: Justin Marquez (1:106/100)
I have interpreted the article in FNEWS631 by Phil Buonomo as an
attack upon my performance in the case of Mike Lester's
excommunication. This article is my own rebuttal to it.
I have refrained from public mention of Mr. Lester's activities
while he was in Net 170 because I have had no particular desire
to embarrass him publicly. Since he has seen fit to spread
untruths about the situation, and to imply that I treated him
unjustly, I shall now present the story from my perspective.
If anyone doubts my veracity, or has any question about how I
deal with fellow sysops or with NC's (while I was in the RC19
job), please feel free to contact ANY sysop in Net 106 or ANY NC
in Region 19 for an independent perspective.
I regret the necessity to write this type of FidoNews article. I
apologize to you in advance. However, Mr. Buonomo and Mr.
Lester have publicly injured me by impugning my character and I
do not appreciate it. Unfortunately, FidoNews is the only forum
available for my reply.
It is also regrettably necessary to quote some of his material.
Sections quoted will be marked at the beginning of each line with
the vertical bar character, as shown below:
| More Tales of Horror from the FidoNet *C's
| by Phil Buonomo 1:107/583, 7:520/583, 9:807/1
| (Whew! Made it another week! Guess the RC's don't read
| FidoNews, else I'd have been tossed out long ago!)
No, Phil, the RC's do read POLICY, which is perhaps why you
haven't been "bounced".
|quote from national sysop:
| RG: Tell me, just how many nodes do you know of that have been
| RG: excommunicated on the basis of a single offense? Indeed,
| RG: how many nodes do you know of that have been excommuni-
| RG: cated, period?
| end quote
Nobody that I know has been excommunicated for a single offense.
Mike Lester violated POLICY on a number of occasions while he was
NC170 and after he was removed from that post. His POLICY3
violations included: - harassment of local nodes whose sysops he
didn't like, including removal of some of those nodes. (How
would YOU like to have an NC just lickin' his chops and waitin'
for your system to be down at ZMH so that you are found in
FidoNews 6-32 Page 2 7 Aug 1989
violation of POLICY?) Don't believe me? Ask sysop Si Hawk. -
Entering messages with profanity in a public echo - Entering
messages with personal attacks (flaming) - Harassing voice
telephone calls to various *C's. The fellow who became the next
NC got phone calls in the wee hours of the morning. Lovely
fellows, this Mr. Lester and his friends. (No, it could not be
*proven* he did it. If it could, there would probably have been
criminal charges filed.) - Being exceptionally uncooperative in
any number of ways including: suddenly using AreaFix's add areas
capability to add 200 echomail areas and convincing a few of his
friends to do the same; convincing a portion of the net to band
together with him and form a separate group of "Independent
Nodes" who were not allowed to communicate with the "regular" Net
170 nodes; attempting to wrest control of echomail distribution.
- Revealing contents of private NetMail messages without asking
permission. (Some of the things in the Fido News #631 article
fall into this category.) - And, of course, his admitted attempt
to interfere with the NC's system.
I asked him on many occasions to quit his violations of POLICY.
He *could* have been removed on the basis of MANY violations,
long before he was finally removed.
I freely admit that there was a LOT of "NC-baiting" going on in
Net 170. I told Mike NOT to fall for it. I tried for MONTHS to
convince him to quit violating POLICY, just because some folks in
the local net were pestering him. *C's *must* be willing to put
up with a lot of garbage. It is part of the job. If one cannot
stand the heat, one *should* get out of the kitchen. ("Two
wrongs don't equal one right", plus many other cliches....)
After Mike was removed as NC, he was given MANY, MANY chances to
back off and act responsibly. Only after seeing him deteriorate
to serious threats to others was he finally removed. Was he then
removed for ONE violation? No. He was removed for the
cumulative effects of his many violations and because he was
totally unrepentant. Had he stayed in FidoNet, it was painfully
apparent that he would have continued to disrupt net operations
whenever he could do so. Even now he is still attempting
(through his spreading of libelous and false information) to
disrupt Net 170 and Region 19 matters whenever he can do so.
| 1) First get the NC(me) to route ALL messages for the local net
| through your node as NEC.
| 2) Then, using a message editor that dont leave footprints (FD
| editor), make changes to the messages the NC posts locally, and
| make sure some if not most are a degrading nature in responce
| to simple questions.
| 3) Quietly, forward "copys" to the RC, explaining that you (the
| NEC) think the NC is "over the edge" and politlely ask what he
| can do about it. A voice phone call helps here, if your GOOD at
| manipulating people. A few of your friends making complaints
| also helps, no matter how bogus they may be. also, if a node
| wont file an "official" complaint make one up in his name and
FidoNews 6-32 Page 3 7 Aug 1989
| send it in. (eg. Joe Savard. )
I have seen few people as good at manipulation of people as is
Mr. Lester. Curiously enough, during the episodes involving
Lester, not once do I recall his mentioning that persons might be
tampering with his messages. The most damaging messages to his
case were some that he copied me on (in his own dealings with
local Net 170 sysops) and which came directly from his node to
mine.
| 4) The RC removes the NC for "cause" and appoints the NEC the
| NEW NC.
I removed Mike because he was doing many things that were not
according to POLICY. Frankly, I never kept many old files or
messages, because I never planned to publicly put him on "trial".
Now that he has fired the first volley, so to speak, I will
present the situation as I saw it (and still do).
| 5) Now your in "CONTROL". Next, start having "secret" monthly
| meetings where not even wifes are allowed in the room where
| fidonet business is conducted. ( You should have heard some of
| the wives outside when this happened.)
| 6) When the old NC(me) finds out about what happened and the
| reason why, he just shrugs it off and says ok, "you leave me
| alone, and I will leave you alone", Now just wait about 2 weeks
| and be silent.
Hmmmmm.... hardly remember him being silent, EVER. If leaving
MANY profane, flaming messages in your local SYSOP echo is
"silence", then I guess he was "silent".
| 7) Un-rest rules the net, because of the changes that have
| happened. "Un-rest" is an understatement, it almost instantly
| polarized the net. Now its time for some "heavy handed rules".
| ie: You MUST attend the local fidonet meetings. (only heresay)
| You MUST get all your echos from the NC/NEC. You can only have
| 40 echos MAX. If you post in the local sysop echo, it must be
| a message that pertains to ALL. Messages of a one to one
| nature are NOT allowed. ect... The penaltys are "you WILL be
| removed from the nodelist" A threat of having NET 170 removed
| by the RC also comes in, if the nodes do not "Cooperate".
My charge as RC included "keeping your Region running smoothly".
Many of Mike Lester's tactics were designed to extort and to
control others. This fellow was on the most incredible power
trip I have ever witnessed. His actions appeared solely designed
to polarize the net, to cripple the net and spilled over into
some other FidoNet local nets.
FidoNews 6-32 Page 4 7 Aug 1989
| 8) Now, dump on the old NC (me) an echo NOT wanted/requested
| without warning or even asking to have the area set up. (100+
| messages) ( I had to manually delete them from my netmail area
Interestingly enough, the Net 170 local "operations document"
which Mr. Lester used required the local sysops to subscribe to
TWO echo areas, if memory serves correctly. It seems the new NC
got the idea from the former NC that such was OK. The new NC was
advised by the RC that "forcefeeding" an echo area was not
acceptable and he stopped it immediately.
| 9) Now comes the part that got ME ex-communicated. When I
| complain saying to discontinue sending the echo, simply send a
| message to the sysop (me) stateing "I'M THE NC, and IF YOU WISH
| TO REMAIN IN FIDONET, YOU WILL RECIEVE THIS ECHO.
| 10) When the ex-NC(me) says "ok, fine, you SEND to ME an echo
| that I dont wish to have, I will place a file on HOLD for you
| to pick up every time you call. (note: the FILE was my files
| listing, the one you would get if you requested FILES from my
| system. Not a mail bomb, or virused program. also, I intended
| on recieving the echomail to a passthrough area to no one,
| effectivly deleting the messages.)
Considering that this incident followed closely on the heels of
another, in which a bosom buddy of Lester sent a virus/bomb type
program to the fellow who was NC between the current NC and
Lester, it is possible that the NC may have been totally out of
line in believing that Lester meant to harm the NC's system or
that he intended to impede mail flow in Net 170. Personally, I
believe he interpreted the threat correctly. Lester's prior
behavior and the actions of his cohorts confirm "malice
aforethought".
| 11) The new NC then quietly removes the ex-NC(me) from the
| nodelist for that week because he is "annoyed". no warning, no
| nothing was ever sent to me about this.
Mike Lester was reinstated while the appeals were going through
channels. (David Dodell is more than fair when excommunications
are involved. He is so concerned about the rights of sysops that
he will even allow the real twits to stay in the nodelist on the
chance they may turn out to be non-twits.)
| 12) When I complain again, pass it along to the RC, who then
| passes it along to David Dodell, who ultimatly, finds that "No
| one has done anything outside of policy."
| It happened to me, and when final, 15 sysops, left fidonet 170
| Now its time for a NEW RULE for the local net. Rule: You can't
| be in fidonet 170 if you allow Mike Lester ex-NC of Fidonet
| 170 on your system as a user. (Just ask the sysop of
| 7:771/208.0 if this is true or not.) The bottom line is this,
| I was ex-communicated from fidonet simply for saying I was
| going to "put a FILE on hold". The FILE was NEVER sent, since
| the new NC removed me from the nodelist. He never called back
FidoNews 6-32 Page 5 7 Aug 1989
| either, after I sent him the message I was going to put the
| file on hold for him. So, I never actually DID anything wrong,
| but i was ex-communicated for it anyway. I even ASKED the RC
| for a REGION number, and it was refused, by saying that there
| was already an existing net in Tulsa, and I HAD to be in it or
| not at all.
Now, why would an RC give an independent regional node number to
a sysop whose excommunication he had just upheld? Would there
be any reason to such action?
Every local Net has probably had cases where a disgruntled sysop
wanted to move to Regional Independent status. Even those folks
who are NOT excommunicated are not moved out of local nets as
Independents unless there is a valid technical reason.
(EchoMail star or backbone systems are one possible example of
valid reasons.)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this man on a power trip, or what? Anytime you see MANY
address lines, it basically means this "Lookie here! See what a
honcho I am?" It is similar to seeing: Dr. Joe Dokes, B.S.,
M.A., Ph.D., P.E., D.V.M., ad infinitum
| So this guy, Mike Lester, gets excommunicated from FidoNet.
| His network gets so upset they 'vote out' the NC appointed by
| RC19, who then declares the vote 'illegal' and throws it out.
| Most of the network then quits FidoNet.
POLICY3 (in effect at the time all this happened) did not provide
for any voting "in" or "out" of anyone, anywhere. Neither does
it prohibit an RC from allowing a net to choose an NC. It only
said the RC "appoints the NC's". I suppose an RC could "appoint"
the person voted for by a majority of the local sysops. We did
it in Net 106. POLICY does clearly state that an NC must work
with both the sysops in his net and the RC in his region. In my
opinion, Lester amply proved he was not willing to do EITHER.
It is also my opinion that only nets which are NOT in a state of
great turmoil should vote for new NC's. You may have a different
opinion and you are welcome to it. Certainly you can see the
dangers of allowing nets to vote NC's out, since occasionally an
NC must make a decision which is both "right" and "unpopular".
FidoNews 6-32 Page 6 7 Aug 1989
Oh, yes, don't miss the fact that Mike set up a second node at
his home, listing his wife as sysop, for the stated purpose of
having a second vote, just in case the RC decided to let Net 170
vote on an NC. The NC was reluctant to keep such a node in the
net, but was advised that as long as it obeyed POLICY
requirements that it should stay in the list. It stayed until
she asked to be removed when Mike moved his operations into
AlterNet.
Funny thing, I have yet to see moderators of the EchoMail
Conferences clamoring to allow subscribers to those areas to vote
moderators "in" or "out". (I guess they can still "vote with
their feet".)
| So we have another case where an RC 'kills' a network for the
| 'good' of FidoNet.
Net 170 is not now, now was it ever, "dead". What DID die was my
desire to be an RC anymore. The TWITS won. I certainly "lost"
something - my zeal to work for FidoNet. The garbage collection
routine finally overflowed. John Summers is now RC19. In my
desire not to drag Lester through the communal mud and not spell
out in public how poorly he had behaved, I set myself up for a
barrage of lies, such as the ones that Phil has obviously bought.
If Lester had not been on such a power trip, then there would
have been NO PROBLEM. He *caused* the original problems by
continuing to violate POLICY. He perpetuated the problems in his
attempts to disrupt the mail and echomail in Net 170.
Let the record show: Mike Lester was the only NC I ever removed
for any reason other than non-response to calls during ZMH for
over a week at a time.
| Are you starting to see the danger of living under Policy4 now?
Curious statement. All this happened under POLICY3. What I AM
beginning to see is the folly in assuming people would not listen
to lies upon lies.
| This story would be bad enough, but now we learn that after
| these guys join AlterNet, the FidoNet NC and RC start trying to
| take over the echomail conferences the 'excommunicated' nodes
| are contributing to! Funny thing is, I thought that FidoNet
| echomail policy stated that conferences belonged to the
| MODERATORS!
Frankly, I don't know WHO "owns" the echomail conferences. I
*do* know that the moderators do not bear the full COSTS to
distribute the conferences. Once you ask someone to dedicate
some portion of his resources to support YOUR power trip, you
give up part of that power to control.
FidoNews 6-32 Page 7 7 Aug 1989
I am quite tired of seeing people flaunt POLICY, make life
miserable for many other people, finally get excommunicated, join
Yet_Another_Net and continue to reap whatever "benefits" there
are to FidoNet membership by collecting EchoMail conveniently
elsewhere. Are there to be no consequences for such behavior as
Mr. Lester's? Is there to be no accountability at all?
We *ALL* get a partially free ride here, folks. The least we can
do is to follow some semblance of the established rules. If you
don't *LIKE* the rules, then you may:
- Work to CHANGE the rules while following the
current rules.
*OR*
- Vote with your feet.
| Well, as a moderator of a number of conferences, I give a
| warning to any *C that might feel bound to keep ANYONE
| following MY rules in ANY of MY conferences from posting:
| KEEP YOUR DAMN HANDS OFF MY CONFERENCES, OR YOU'LL FIND
| YOURSELF THE SUBJECT OF A POLICY COMPLAINT SO FAST IT'LL MAKE
| YOUR HEAD SWIM!
Vweeeet! Vweeeet! Vweeeeet!
POWER TRIP ALERT! POWER TRIP ALERT!
" The system has detected another POWER TRIP. Please turn
off the necessary EchoMail Conferences to reduce the
noise to a bearable level....."
| Clear enough? Good.
XTAL Clear, Phil. Please forward a list of "YOUR" conferences to
me at 1:106/100 and I promise you, I'll not bother you with my
presence in "YOUR" areas. Now, I assume that by referring to
them as "YOUR" areas, that means you don't freeload on the rest
of us by using the public backbone distribution system to deliver
"YOUR" areas? You ARE talking about areas that nobody else
spends any of "THEIR" money to distribute, right?
Say, Phil.... how would you like it if the backbone system
suddenly decided to REALLY keep it's hands off "YOUR" areas? I
know I wouldn't miss 'em.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 6-32 Page 8 7 Aug 1989
Moderators BEWARE!
The conference you run may NOT be your own!
by Phil Buonomo 1:107/583, 7:520/583, 9:807/1
(Yup, still here! I TOLD you the RC's must not
read FidoNews!)
This past week I've received a LOT of mail. Much of it HATE mail
from Bruce Bodger's network, and a lot of it 'thanks for letting
everyone know' mail from those that were alienated.
Doesn't bother me, I've received hate mail before, and I'll
probably do so again. Since the hate mail is so systematic, I
can only assume it is a coordinated effort.
Most hate-mail people were complaining that I hadn't 'researched'
the facts before writing my article, but the fact is, I did. The
thrust of it remains that *C's are trying to say who can or
cannot post in conferences, despite what the moderators rule.
This is just plain wrong. If an 'excommunicated' sysop signs on
as a user on another FidoNet sysop's board and enters a valid,
on-topic message in a conference? The *C's will KILL it.
Witness:
Date: Tue 25 Jul 89 11:53
From: Jim Dunmyer
To: Jim Grubs
Subj: <<blush>>
* Forwarded from 1:234/100, EchoMaster, Temperance MI
* Originally to Jim Grubs, 1:234/1
* Forwarded by Jim Grubs, 1:234/1, 11:53 7/25
Well, I pulled a good one again!
This thing aborted in the middle of the mail transfer this AM,
and after polling Snyder for the rest of the packet, I discovered
a problem here.
During the recent fiasco, I "fixed" things to cover my ass and
make certain that any messages you entered into echomail would
not go through here. I was copying your incoming file to another
subdirectory, then deleting it from the "normal" one before
running CONFMAIL IMPORT. Unfortunately, I just discovered the
problem this AM and corrected it. I moved all the files I had
into the proper area before processing, so *most* of your stuff
should now be going out into the echos. Hopefully, I didn't
loose too much.
FidoNews 6-32 Page 9 7 Aug 1989
Jim, I am truly sorry about this!
END OF MSG
Now, here we have a case of an echomail coordinator BLATANTLY
chopping someone's messages, and then BOASTING of it?
Perhaps the *C's feel they are above POLICY, now?
Where will this crap ever end, people? Don't the rights of the
individual mean anything anymore? What if Grubs were a user on
another system? His message wouldn't be ALLOWED to go out
because he USED to be in FidoNet?
Dammit, everytime I see stuff like this I get riled up. Let's
say it one more time:
CONFERENCES BELONG TO THE MODERATOR, NOT THE BACKBONE, NOT THE
*C'S.
Now, while I say this, I am not trying to imply the backbone
nodes of violating that principle. They supported the "Moderator
as God" idea at last year's FidoCon, and I believe they have
supported it in the past year. AND, if the backbone nodes wish
to set up a set of rules conferences must follow to BE on the
backbone (having a moderator is one), I support that decision
wholeheartedly. The backbone nodes are THEIR systems, after all.
So here's the musical question, folks:
If the BACKBONE does not presume to 'dictate' (good choice of
words, don't you think) to the moderators, why should the *C's
feel they can?
Perhaps for the same reasons they felt they could 'dictate' to
Vince and FidoNews...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 6-32 Page 10 7 Aug 1989
Utility authors: Please help keep this list up to date by
reporting new versions to 1:1/1. It is not our intent to list
all utilities here, only those which verge on necessity.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 6-32 Page 12 7 Aug 1989
24 Aug 1989
FidoCon '89 starts at the Holiday Inn in San Jose,
California. Trade show, seminars, etc. Contact 1:1/89
for info.
5 Oct 1989
20th Anniversary of "Monty Python's Flying Circus"
11 Oct 1989
First International Modula-2 Conference at Bled, Yugoslavia
hosting Niklaus Wirth and the British Standards Institution.
Contact 1:106/8422 for more information.
11 Nov 1989
A new area code forms in northern Illinois at 12:01 am.
Chicago proper will remain area code 312; suburban areas
formerly served with that code will become area code 708.
23 Nov 1989
26th Anniversary of "Dr. Who" - and still going strong
30 Dec 1989
Telephone area codes (5, 3 and 0) are abolished in Hong Kong
If you have something which you would like to see on this
calendar, please send a message to FidoNet node 1:1/1.
Don Daniels
Mort Sternheim
Mark Grennan
Kris Veitch
Thom Henderson
Irene Henderson
Mark Peters
Dave Melnick
Robert Rudolph
Linda Grennan
David Drexler
Courtney Harris
Ted Polczynski
1. B. Rudolph
2. (Don Daniels)
3. Secretary
4. Treasurer's Report - read by Mark Grennan
January 1989 report & net message of resignation.
Item of New Business - Continuing of selling software?
B. Rudolph moves to accept Steve Bonine resignation
and it was seconded. Accept his resignation with
condition of all required document and/or
ledgers/records. Carried.
5. Report from Secretary - Report read and accepted.
Courtney Harris - Division 10 - Commented that sysops in
this division feel empathy. Need to improve IFNA image.
Must stop internal bickering and get something done.
Report accepted.
Irene Henderson - Division 13 - Letter of Resignation
from Rick Siegel - Call to administer FidoNet & do something
constructive. Will is to stay on Publication Committee
if Board so desires. Report accepted.
Mark Peters (alternate) - Division 11 - no report
Bill Bolton - Division 12 - not in attendance, no
report, written or verbal.
Ken Kaplan - Division 14 - No report
Scott Miller - Division 15 - Not represented.
Division 16 - Everything doing fine
Division 17 - None
Division 18 - None
FidoNews 6-32 Page 15 7 Aug 1989
David Drexler - Division 19 - Sysops are
dissatisfied, IFNA members are very active and willing
to work. SW Bell Affair - Houston/San Antonio -
tariff situation w/BBS - business rates (& explanation
of the problem). Report accepted.
Ethics Committee - Ivan Schaeffel, Chairman
M. Grennan submitted document for review and revision -
no action has been taken. Ivan believes no ethic
document needed. Mort - suggest document go to
Executive Committee - maybe item for new business. No
official report.
Public Affairs - David Drexler
Set up Fido Con 88 - IFNA; OUTREACH - (Echo name);
Educating Public - Charitable Organization - Sysoping -
BBS'ing, etc.
A. Public Relation Project - Servicemen letters Tinker
AFB - including TV interview with KTVY; intend to
start earlier next year - possibly putting out PR
list.
B. Guideline for donation for handicap sysops.
(Blind, deaf, etc.)
C. "Snail Mail" and office calls
Greg Trotter - Mail
David Drexler - Phone Call
Mark G. - (a) setting up point system with PC
Users Group; (b) Talking Dog for handicapped
sysops; (c) Olympic Festival
Oklahoma TDD Project - Toshiba 1000 and modem - "large
screen TDD". Report concluded. Report accepted and
seconded.
Don Daniels, Acting Chair - Bylaws election - Information Report
Acting Chairman recommends to pay above bill. Don reports on
problems of bylaws election - written report - verbal
also given.
66 Ballots received & Counted
72 Total received
5 Complaints received on Foreign ballots not arriving on time
Courtney Harris, in reference to the results on election moved
to accept results. Seconded by Dave Melnick. Amends - election
results be accepted procedurally.
T. Henderson - Legal Review
Privileged motion tabled and seconded by Courtney
Harris
4 Opposed
9 For
Motion to accept results of election upon Legal review:
2 Yes
11 No Failed
Item tabled.
______________
Other Items of Old Business
Ethics Committee - Ethics Document
New Business
T. Henderson, on behalf of member(s), motioned to amend agenda
to disband under treasurer and to dispose of assets in
accordance with articles and order secretary to file necessary
papers with state of Missouri.
Vote called for:
0 Yes
10 No
FidoNews 6-32 Page 17 7 Aug 1989
3 Abstain (Irene, Tom, Dave Davidson) Failed.
A. (Agenda Item) Statement of Purpose - M.G. a single
vision to unite organization (in a 3-sentence
statement) should have:
a. What do you hope to accomplish?
b. How to accomplish it?
c. Who does it benefit?
Tabled after initial discussions.
B. Two proposals for Fido News Policy
a. Mort Sternheim
b. David Drexler
c. From Pub. Report (Status Quo)
Don Daniels motion to table to breakout committee,
seconded Mort Sternheim (refer an at large) Authors
should be included.
Tabled.
C. IFNA - Oklahoma City Office and proposal - motion M.G.
and seconded by David Drexler.
Kris Veitch has agreed to let us use part of his office.
Hospital - printing business card free - it is a non-
profit hospital.
Fund-raising/educational proposal presented.
amended - take out expected $100.00 expense limit.
Unanimous vote - Yes.
Office expenses approved at $100.00 per month with
receipts.
Multiple Fund Raisers Proposal by David Drexler tabled for
later discussion.
BIX - Accounting Procedures - see packet information (it was
noted that there was concern that BIX won't push paid
BIX accounts)
D. Daniels motion to accept procedure, seconded. Vote
carried 12 for and 1 Abstained.
members can apply if such use can be justified as this is
not limited to BOD Members.
Treasurer - Appointment of such
Motion for Kris Veitch to be nominated as Treasurer by
Courtney Harris, seconded by Mort
Secretary established Kris as Treasurer
Election of Chairman of Board -
Suggested that:
A. Chairman be able to moderate electronics sessions
effectively
B. Rudolph open floor to nomiations for Chairman
1. Thom Henderson nominates Irene H., D. Melnick
seconded.
2. Mort nominates D. Daniels - Don asked not be
considered
3. D. Daniels nominates Mort Sternheim, C. Harris
seconded
Dave Davidson motioned that nominations close,
Kris seconded
After short speeches by candidates, Mort elected.
VPTC - Ben Baker nominated by I. Henderson, Wm Burnhoff
nominated by Thom Henderson. Item tabled by D. Daniels
and seconded by L. Grennan. Vote carried. Tabled.
Secretary Position
Linda Grennan abstained from voting.
C. Harris motioned move to accept David Garrett
resignation as secretary.
Irene nominates L. Grennan, C. Harris seconded. Close
nominations.
Linda Grennan established as Secretary.
DAK Agreement
FidoNews 6-32 Page 19 7 Aug 1989
Letter of understanding between DAK and IFNA described.
- Is not definite that nodelist agreement will be dropped.
- Courtney states he will abstain on any vote pertaining to DAK
- C. H.: $30,000 was donated to American Cancer Society (from
sales of nodelist package)
- C. H.: 30,000 copies have been distributed
- C. H.: Possible 5% to go back to IFNA
- D. Daniels - Stated Executive Committee previously decided not
to pursue money issue.
- D. Daniels read letter of understanding for discussion.
- Executive Committee directed to resolve mailing out
copies of nodelist received by IFNA generated by DAK ad.
Courtney Harris - Proposals
1) DAK - 10% from Nodelist deal to be investigated.
2) FAX Board - Retail $229.00 - propose do a pamphlet with
possibly 10 items available to IFNA and Fidonet members
T. Henderson motion to move it to Membership Services
for consideration, seconded by Mark Peters, vote carried.
3) Image files attach to messages CGA or VGA image -
public protocol to possible be set.
Sent to Committee.
D. Daniels said it has been suggested electronic ballots to be
sent to redistribution points (in the future) - Bill Bolton
and Henk Wevers. Problem here with current bylaws, however.
Bylaws Election Voted on an accepted with reservations due to
the overseas problems. D. Daniels abstained
D. Daniels reported results of voting of Bylaws Election:
Nodelist Copyright notice - D. Daniels motion it go to ad hoc
committee, seconded. So also stated by Chairman Mort Sternheim.
D. Daniels read suggest change of copyright notice, Mort motioned
to table copyright notice, vote carried.
Hobbyist vs Commercial Issues - Discussion of various
matters. Sent to committee.
Statement of Purpose - Discussion
1. What do we want to accomplish
2. How to accomplish
3. For Who's Benefit
Matter discussed and sent to committee.
Discussion of V. Division - now 24 directors according
to new Bylaws.
BoD is too large and cumbersome. Sent to
Bylaws and N&Elections committees for recommendations.
Meeting adjourned until next day.
Sunday February 19, 1989 Meeting Reconvened
New Business
Discussed Fido Con - FidoCon expense. Proposal submitted
by D. Drexler. Irene amended suggestion that all of
IFNA existing bills be paid first before any money
issued to Fidod Con.
FidoNews 6-32 Page 21 7 Aug 1989
T. Henderson - amendment to 1/2 of treasury not to
exceed $2,000 - seconded by D. Melnick
Motion was carried and adopted.
Motion to have Bylaws accepted from recent election and placed
into effect. Motion carried.
Readdressed:
Creation of Statement of Purpose - Dave
Proposed sentence:
The purpose of IFNA is to promote electronic
communications by the dissemination and advancement of
Fidonet Technology.
Irene motioned to accept and seconded by Kris Veitch.
Motion to accept Statement carried unanimously.
Appointment of VPTC
___________________
Both B. Baker and William Burhoff declined nomination; C.
Harris nominated Bill Bolton and seconded by D.
Davidson; T. Henderson nominated Bob Hartman.
Nominations closed.
Discussion of nominations. Bylaw 29 read (revised) by Irene.
Bolton elected.
Motion - Kris Veitch
K. V. - that if both VPTC candidates decline, Executive
Committee will decide, seconded.
Motion carried
Nodelist Copyright -
Kris V. - IFNA hereby grant to operation of systems
Fido Net technology a limited license to use FidoNet
nodelist in the operation of their system. (get with T.
on a wording), seconded by T. Henderson. Call for vote
2 obstained (Ted being one)
Motion carried
FidoNews 6-32 Page 22 7 Aug 1989
D. Daniels - amend to add "FidoNet is trademark of Tom
Jennings", seconded by Irene.
C. Harris felt it was a mistake that IFNA doesn't
control the nodelist on behalf of FidoNet sysops and plans to
enter motion later to get that back.
Call for vote. Passed
By-Laws Amendments and Changes
Voting Division - D. Daniels, seconded C. Harris
(resolution 5.77 annual fee, Kris called for reading
___ large ballot)
Due to the fact that our Bylaws require that we send ballot via
postal mail to all members; that it would not be fair for
regular dues paying members to underwrite all the potential
at-large members for which no dues are presently established;
and that the BoD is empowered by the Bylaws to set membership
fees, the BoD hereby establishes an annual processing fee of
$5.77 (actual cost of the last ballot) for applicants for
at-large membership.
Call for vote
Passed.
Official communications of the Board of Directors or Executive
Committee may be presented, in lieu of written form as called
for within these bylaws, through electronic means, providing
such means are secure and their authenticity verifiable.
Call for vote
Passed.
Any elected or appointed official may be removed for failure
to adequately perform the assigned duties as defined by the
Board of Directors.
(a) The Chairman of the Board of Directors may recommend the
removal of an appointed official to the Board of Directors.
The removal will be effective upon a majority vote of those
voting at a properly convened meeting of the Board or by
electronic mail or by postal mail.
(b) The Executive Committee may recommend the removal of a
Director or elected official to the Board of Directors.
The removal will be effective upon a majority vote of those
voting at a properly convened meeting of the Board or by
electronic mail or by postal mail.
FidoNews 6-32 Page 23 7 Aug 1989
Call for vote
Passed.
An Alternate replacing a Director temporarily or permanently
assumes the seat on the Board of Directors but no other
elected or appointed position.
Call for vote
Passed.
T. Henderson - motion to direct Treasurer to pay CPA
bill for election, seconded; vote - motion
carried;
Next Meeting - Fido Con 89 unless it doesn't happen -
C. Harris seconded by M. Grennan. At Fido Con exact
time to be specified later and BOD be notified -
approved.
C. H. motioned, seconded M.G. to adjourn to next
meeting - vote unanimous
Meeting closed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 6-32 Page 24 7 Aug 1989
Don Daniels, Voting Member
(at the request of Bob Rudolph, Chairman)
1:107/210
Executive Committee Report
The question of at-large memberships has been brought up recently
by several individuals who have wondered why no provision was
made for them in the current elections. This report attempts to
explain that, though you will find that it is a complicated
and unfortunate matter.
First of all, it makes sense to look at the bylaw amendment on
which the whole problem is based:
1 f) At-Large Member. To be eligible, an applicant: must be the
system operator in good standing of a PUBLIC ACCESS node;
must have been listed in the FIDONET NODELIST for 180 days
prior to the ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP MEETING; is entitled to
one vote for the election of the At-Large Members of the
Board of Directors only.
While we're at it, three more bylaws (or portions thereof) will
also come into play so let's list them here:
4. Annual Fees
b) The annual membership fees shall be set by the Board of
Directors.
13. The Nominations and Elections Committee shall arrange to
have a certified public accountant receive and collate all
mail BALLOTS received prior to the ANNUAL MEETING, and to be
responsible for the receipt, tabulation and verification of
all BALLOTS cast before the close of voting...
11. ... At least forty (40) days prior to the ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP
MEETING the Secretary ... shall send to every voting member,
... a ballot ...
Note that "BALLOT" is defined: "BALLOT: A paper listing of
all candidates for office and issues requiring a vote...".
[Complete text of the IFNA Articles of Association and Bylaws are
available for file request as BYLAWS.ARC from 1:107/210.]
This last bylaw (11) has a very significant impact on this entire
matter as it requires IFNA to send a ballot (via postal mail) to
every at-large member, which could conceivably run into the
thousands. The Board of Directors was very conscious that it
would truly be unfair for the dues of the regular members to be
utilized to pay for the handling of the ballots of those that
were unwilling to pay the US$25.
FidoNews 6-32 Page 25 7 Aug 1989
Although it may indeed have been the author's original intent
that this bylaw amendment would result in no dues being required
for at-large members and in the at-large member being totally
responsible for any and all costs associated with handling of the
ballots, no provision was made for such eventualities in the new
bylaw itself. The Board was therefore forced to act within the
bounds of what was actually written.
Accordingly, the Board in the Meeting in St. Louis, voted in a
annual at-large membership fee that would cover all the costs of
preparing, mailing, and processing a ballot. In determining the
amount of this fee, the Board simply chose to utilize the actual,
per-ballot cost incurred during the most recent election, which
was US$5.77 for the election completed last January.
From the very first line of Bylaw 1-f it is obvious that an
individual must make an application to become an at-large member
of IFNA. Such application is based upon the requirement (among
others) that said applicant "must have been listed in the FIDONET
NODELIST for 180 days prior to the ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP MEETING".
Now this is not at all explicit in its meaning and has been the
subject of considerable debate regarding its intended and legal
interpretations.
The IFNA BoD discussed this aspect at some length in its meeting
in February and the Executive Committee has recently been in
touch with IFNA's legal counsel for his opinion on the matter,
with the result that it is understood that the intent would be
expected to be inferred to mean the 180 CONSECUTIVE days
immediately prior to the actual day on which the annual
membership meeting takes place. The convincing argument for this
point is that if there were to be an interpretation to the
contrary, then ANY 180 days would suffice and there would be no
relevancy in even mentioning the annual membership meeting.
The Board of Directors was aware of this interpretation in
February, and had realized that there was a significant problem
in that the upcoming election would be completed some days prior
to the annual membership meeting, with the result that it was
therefore expected that no application could legally be made that
would allow participation of any at-large member in that
election. Accordingly, [and, I personally believe, in concert
with the general feeling of the Board members by that time that
FidoNet Sysops as a whole had basically chosen, explicitly or
implicitly, that IFNA was not to have any involvement with the
Administration of FidoNet and that there was therefore no need of
having an at-large membership category] no further action was
taken on the matter.
However, there has come to light a loophole in the above
thinking. You see, due to requirements that the ballot be
received by a CPA and the difficulties IFNA has had in obtaining
such services in the past, it had been assumed that acceptance of
ballots by other than mail would not legally be providable during
this election. As it turned out, the Nominations and Elections
Committee was fortunate to arrange for the services of CPA Robert
FidoNews 6-32 Page 26 7 Aug 1989
C. Halvorsen????? who will be attending FidoCon '89, so the rules
for this election do provide for ballots to be submitted by hand
at FidoCon until Noon on Friday, August 25.
Because the nodelist (89237) which covers the final two days
prior to the annual membership meeting will have been released
earlier that morning, it is then theoretically possible that
someone might be able to satisfy the 180 day requirement that
morning, qualify to be an at-large member in all other respects,
and therefore submit an application, membership fee, and ballot
prior to the Noon deadline. However, the fact that the IFNA
administrators who presently handle membership applications will
not be attending FidoCon (due to personal reasons) still
complicates this whole possibility.
Note that in any event, it would still be impossible for those
potential at-large members wishing to submit ballots by mail, to
do so and meet the 180 day requirement as the published deadline
for mail-in ballots is Noon on Thursday, August 24, which is
prior to the final required Nodelist publication date.
Therefore, it is now the decision of the Executive Committee that
the BoD's original assessment that no at-large members would be
legally allowed to participate in this election still stands, in
terms of all mail-in ballots. As to any ballots from potential
at-large members hand delivered to the appropriate receiving
point at FidoCon prior to the Noon, Friday, August 25 deadline,
such ballots would be considered valid provided they are
accompanied by an official IFNA membership application form
marked "At-large Member" (applications are available in the back
of most issues of FidoNews), the fee of US$5.77 (note that this
fee also provides for a(ny) ballot(s) to be sent during the
coming year), and supporting documention to demonstrate that the
applicant meets the requirements of at-large membership,
including being a System Operator in good standing of a public
access node and the inclusion, without break (yes, we are aware
that that may prove neither fair nor the intent, but we have been
advised that it is the present legal interpretation) of their
name in all nodelists from 89055 through 89237.
Note that anyone who is interested in becoming an at-large member
of IFNA for the 1989-1990 time frame must meet the qualifications
stated in the previous paragraph and should send their
application to the address provided on the application once it
has been established that they qualify for such membership.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 6-32 Page 27 7 Aug 1989
Nominations and Elections Committee
1:107/233
Report from Nominations and Elections Committee
As indicated in a previous report, the committee is presenting
statements from those individuals who have expressed interest in
serving FidoNet as Directors of IFNA. The committee has not
validated any of the material in these reports. If you are
interested in serving on the BoD but your statement has not
appeared herein, please forward it to 1:107/210 immediately.
The following statement has been edited by the committee to
meet established size constraints; for full text see IFNA Echo
Conference.
I always felt that IFNA should play an important role - a role
not solely directed at one particular group or class of people,
but rather anyone who wanted or needed it. What we all have to
remember is that IFNA was originally designed as the guiding
force behind FidoNet, with many meaningful goals and intentions.
I still believe in this, which is why I originally joined IFNA
and recently volunteered to represent my fellow SysOp on its
board of directors.
We ALL have one problem, and that is that we do not have
some central force behind our efforts, holding our hands and
advising us of what our technical and legal liabilities and
concerns are. I firmly believe that IFNA can be such a force.
[Therefore], the major factors in my interest in becoming an IFNA
representative are:
1. To promote the interests and activities of our fellow SysOps
to the community at large. Let's all show them how WE can
help change their lives.
2. To promote and ease the peaceful coexistence of our brother
networks, who are also trying to do what we do.
3. To continuously expand the meaningfulness and integrity of our
communications and our technology.
4. To provide an oasis of technological, legal, and social
assistance for ALL SysOps, regardless of network affiliation.
5. To provide an mechanism whereby all SysOps can unite and
FidoNews 6-32 Page 28 7 Aug 1989
provide a powerful force which will fight for our rights and
privileges.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 6-32 Page 29 7 Aug 1989
OFFICERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL FIDONET ASSOCIATION
Mort Sternheim 1:321/109 Chairman of the Board
Bob Rudolph 1:261/628 President
Matt Whelan 3:3/1 Vice President
Bill Bolton 3:711/403 Vice President-Technical Coordinator
Linda Grennan 1:147/1 Secretary
Kris Veitch 1:147/30 Treasurer
IFNA COMMITTEE AND BOARD CHAIRS
Administration and Finance Mark Grennan 1:147/1
Board of Directors Mort Sternheim 1:321/109
Bylaws Don Daniels 1:107/210
Ethics Vic Hill 1:147/4
Executive Committee Bob Rudolph 1:261/628
International Affairs Rob Gonsalves 2:500/1
Membership Services David Drexler 1:147/47
Nominations & Elections David Melnick 1:107/233
Public Affairs David Drexler 1:147/47
Publications Rick Siegel 1:107/27
Security & Individual Rights Jim Cannell 1:143/21
Technical Standards Rick Moore 1:115/333
IFNA BOARD OF DIRECTORS
DIVISION AT-LARGE
10 Courtney Harris 1:102/732 Don Daniels 1:107/210
11 Bill Allbritten 1:11/301 Mort Sternheim 1:321/109
12 Bill Bolton 3:711/403 Mark Grennan 1:147/1
13 Irene Henderson 1:107/9 (vacant)
14 Ken Kaplan 1:100/22 Ted Polczyinski 1:154/5
15 Scott Miller 1:128/12 Matt Whelan 3:3/1
16 Ivan Schaffel 1:141/390 Robert Rudolph 1:261/628
17 Neal Curtin 1:343/1 Steve Jordan 1:206/2871
18 Andrew Adler 1:135/47 Kris Veitch 1:147/30
19 David Drexler 1:147/47 (vacant)
2 Henk Wevers 2:500/1 David Melnik 1:107/233
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 6-32 Page 30 7 Aug 1989
__
The World's First / \
BBS Network /|oo \
* FidoNet * (_| /_)
FidoCon '89 in San Jose, California _`@/_ \ _
at The Holiday Inn Park Plaza | | \ \\
August 24-27, 1989 | (*) | \ ))
______ |__U__| / \//
/ Fido \ _//|| _\ /
(________) (_/(_|(____/ (tm)
You may pay by Check, Money Order, or Credit Card. Please send
no cash. All monies must be in U.S. Funds. Checks should be
made out to: "FidoCon '89"
This form should be completed and mailed to:
Silicon Valley FidoCon '89
PO Box 390770
Mountain View, CA 94039
You may register by Netmailing this completed form to 1:1/89 for
processing. Rename it to ZNNNXXXX.REG where Z is your Zone
number, N is your Net number, and X is your Node number. US Mail
confirmation is required within 72 hours to confirm your
registration.
If you are paying by credit card, please include the following
information. For your own security, do not route any message
with your credit card number on it. Crash it directly to 1:1/89.
FidoNews 6-32 Page 32 7 Aug 1989
Master Card _______ Visa ________
Credit Card Number _____________________________________________
Expiration Date ________________________________________________
No credit card registrations will be accepted without a valid
signature.
Rooms at the Holiday Inn may be reserved by calling the Hotel at
408-998-0400, and mentioning that you are with FidoCon. Rooms
are $60.00 per night double occupancy. Additional rollaways are
available for $10.00 per night. To obtain these rates you must
register before July 15.
The official FidoCon '89 airline is American Airlines. You can
receive either a 5% reduction in supersaver fares or a 40%
reduction in the regular day coach fare. San Jose is an American
Airlines hub with direct flights to most major cities. When
making reservations, you must call American's reservation number,
800-433-1790, and reference Star number S0289VM.
The official FidoCon '89 automobile rental agency is Alamo Rent a
Car. Rates are as described below. All rates include automatic
transmission, air conditioning, radio, and unlimited mileage.
Economy car (example: Geo Metro) $32 day/$109 week.
Compact car (example: Chevy Cavalier) $34 day/$120 week.
Midsize car (example: Pontiac Grand Am) $36 day/$135 week.
Standard car (example: Buick Regal) $38 day/$165 week.
Luxury car (example: Buick LeSabre) $40 day/$239 week.
To take advantage of this rate, call Alamo at 1-800-327-9633 and
request the convention rate. Mention FidoCon '89, the location
and dates.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 6-32 Page 33 7 Aug 1989
Membership for the International FidoNet Association
Membership in IFNA is open to any individual or organization that
pays a specified annual membership fee. IFNA serves the
international FidoNet-compatible electronic mail community to
increase worldwide communications.
Member Name _______________________________ Date _______________
Address _________________________________________________________
City ____________________________________________________________
State ________________________________ Zip _____________________
Country _________________________________________________________
Home Phone (Voice) ______________________________________________
Work Phone (Voice) ______________________________________________
Zone:Net/Node Number ____________________________________________
BBS Name ________________________________________________________
BBS Phone Number ________________________________________________
Baud Rates Supported ____________________________________________
Board Restrictions ______________________________________________
Your Special Interests __________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
In what areas would you be willing to help in FidoNet? __________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Send this membership form and a check or money order for $25 in
US Funds to:
International FidoNet Association
PO Box 41143
St Louis, Missouri 63141
USA
Thank you for your membership! Your participation will help to
insure the future of FidoNet.
Please NOTE that IFNA is a general not-for-profit organization
and Articles of Association and By-Laws were adopted by the
membership in January 1987. The second elected Board of Directors
was filled in August 1988. The IFNA Echomail Conference has been
established on FidoNet to assist the Board. We welcome your
input to this Conference.
