Volume 4, Number 48                              28 December 1987
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
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    |        - FidoNews -                           (_|  /_)        |
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    |        International                          |     | \   \\  |
    |     FidoNet Association                       | (*) |  \   )) |
    |         Newsletter               ______       |__U__| /  \//  |
    |                                 / FIDO \       _//|| _\   /   |
    |                                (________)     (_/(_|(____/    |
    |                                                     (jm)      |
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    Editor in Chief:                                   Thom Henderson
    Chief Procrastinator Emeritus:                       Tom Jennings
    Contributing Editors:                      Dale Lovell, Al Arango

    FidoNews  is  published  weekly  by  the  International   FidoNet
    Association  as  its  official newsletter.  You are encouraged to
    submit articles for publication in FidoNews.  Article  submission
    standards  are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC,  available from
    node 1:1/1.

    Copyright 1987 by  the  International  FidoNet  Association.  All
    rights  reserved.  Duplication  and/or distribution permitted for
    noncommercial purposes only.  For  use  in  other  circumstances,
    please contact IFNA at (314) 576-4067.

    The  contents  of  the  articles  contained  here  are  not   our
    responsibility,   nor   do   we   necessarily  agree  with  them.
    Everything here is  subject  to  debate.  We  publish  EVERYTHING
    received.


                           SEASON'S GREETINGS

                            Table of Contents

    1. EDITORIAL  ................................................  1
       Swan Song  ................................................  1
    2. ARTICLES  .................................................  2
       Modem, Modem, whose got the Modem?  .......................  2
       A Storm Is On The Horizon  ................................  7
       The Other Side of MetroNet  ............................... 11
    3. NOTICES  .................................................. 14
       The Interrupt Stack  ...................................... 14
       Latest Software Versions  ................................. 14
    FidoNews 4-48                Page 1                   28 Dec 1987


    =================================================================
                                EDITORIAL
    =================================================================

                                Swan Song


    I've  always been big on giving out free advice.  Some would call
    that a shortcoming,  but at least  I  occasionally  take  my  own
    advice.

    I  remember  in particular one company I used to work for.  Every
    week they had a staff meeting I was required to go to,  and every
    week  the  head of the company would encourage anyone who had any
    criticisms to stand up and speak his peace.  Never having learned
    to be especially diplomatic (I was once told that I had the  tact
    and subtlety of a Sherman tank), I would take him at his word and
    speak out.

    This had several unfortunate side effects,  one of which was that
    disgruntled employees started standing around my desk complaining
    about how awful things were.  They would be surprised to discover
    that I wasn't very sympathetic.  I generally told them  that,  if
    things  were  all that intolerable,  then they should quit and go
    somewhere else.

    Then  the  day  came  where  something  happened  that  I   found
    intolerable.  Within  the hour my letter of resignation was on my
    supervisor's desk and I was out the door.  I've never  had  cause
    to regret that.

    What  does  all  this  have  to  do with FidoNet?  Patience,  I'm
    getting to that.

    Quite  some  time  ago  (more  time  than  I care to think about,
    actually) Ken Kaplan and Ben Baker roped  me  into  helping  them
    figure  out  how  to  run  this  net.  This was before we made it
    democratic,  so there wasn't a whole lot in the way of  feedback.
    We  worked  under  the  premise that if anyone was really unhappy
    with what we were doing, they'd leave and form their own net.

    So once again it's time for me to  take  my  own  advice.  For  a
    number  of  reasons  I'm unhappy about how things are going these
    days,  so I'm leaving to help form a new net.  This  will  be  my
    last issue of FidoNews.  Dale Lovell will be taking over  as  the
    FidoNews publisher starting next week.

    To all of you who have been supportive for lo these  many  moons,
    you  have  my sincere and heartfelt thanks.  To all the rest,  no
    hard feelings.  Best of luck to all of you.  By and  large,  it's
    been fun.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FidoNews 4-48                Page 2                   28 Dec 1987


    =================================================================
                                ARTICLES
    =================================================================

    Bob Morris, Co-Chair, FTSC High-Speed Modem Committee
    16/0

    After three months of testing, it is finally out, at least for a
    couple of manufacturers we, the committee, have tested the name
    brands with more to come.

    If you had thought that we were going to recommend a modem, well,
    you will have to make your own decision!  As a committee we have
    decided that we would undertake this task with you, the sysop and
    user in mind.  As such, we will not be making a decision as to
    what should be or should not be a "Standard" for the FidoNet
    community.  What we have done is to evaluate these modems "Out of
    the Box" so that we would do a equal comparison of what happens
    when you get the boxes yourselves.

    As of this writing, we have looked at and tested the Telebit
    Trailblazer, the Microcom AX9624c, the Hayes V-Series 9600 and
    the US Robotics HST with MNP 5.  We have also started to look at
    the Ven-Tel Pathfinder 18K modem, which is compatible with the
    Trailblazer and is the only other modem on the market that is
    compatible with any of the other brands at high speed.

    The testing on the Hayes, Robotics and Ven-Tel is basically
    unfinished at this time, but we thought that it was time to at
    least report on what we have found to date.  The prices for the
    modems vary from the HST at $495.00 to $672.50 for the
    Trailblazer modem.  Additionally, we have not yet tested the
    Trailblazer Plus within the Fido Compatible software available,
    nor were we able to bring into our testing a copy of Fido V 12,
    but we will assume that it is compatible with the current
    software versions in use today.

    Many of the manufacturers have been more than willing to assist
    us in this endeavor and have contacted us to insure that the
    products we had were operating properly.  We must state at this
    time that the V.29 "Standard" which exists today is not a true
    data communications standard but one which exists for FAX
    machines and the transmission of data for those pieces of
    equipment.  The high speed modem standard will probably be based
    upon the V.32 standard under which we can probably expect that
    all of the manufacturers will have equipment which talks to one
    another at high speed.  All modems tested talked to other brands
    at at least 2400 BPS.  Data transmission to locations outside of
    the Continental United States were tested and the modem which
    communicated the best via high speed using a registered data jack
    and a "Data Line" was the Trailblazer, which obtained 815 CPS to
    Australia.  However, this modem is fairly well distributed
    overseas and has been accepted, as the V.29 standard, in a number
    of countries outside of the United States.

    It is important to note that owners of systems which are based
    FidoNews 4-48                Page 3                   28 Dec 1987


    upon the 8088 which run on an original clock speed of 4.77 MHz
    should be aware that a problem does exist when attempting to
    utilize these modems above 9600 bps.  According to most of the
    documentation available at the time, the data bus cannot handle
    sustained speeds of 9600 or greater.  This would limit the speed
    of the modem, but XT and XT Clone owners can expect between 3600
    and 9600 BPS, AT owners can expect between 7200 and 13000 when
    using systems equipped with the 16450 UART and machine speeds of
    at least 6 MHz when dealing with archived data as is found in
    Echomail and file transfers of Archived data.

    There is a new term which is CPS, which is the character
    throughput with these new modems.  CPS, simply stated, is the
    character count expressed as actual characters (10bits = 1
    Character).  Therefore if throughput is expressed as 1320 CPS,
    then the actual throughput (in old and familiar terms) is 13200
    BPS.

    The following is a report dealing with the Microcom AX9624c and
    the Telebit Trailblazer.  Both of these modems operated on both
    the AT&T PC6300 Plus and an ARC Turbo AT Clone, both of these
    machines worked in different environments, the AT&T utilized
    SEADog 4.1 as the communications program and operates at 6MHz
    utilizing the 8250 UART.  The ARC Turbo AT utilized OPUS 1.03a as
    both the BBS program as well as the mailer, this AT uses the
    16450 UART and an 8MHz clock.

    The Microcom was equipped with the current version of the
    Firmware (ROM Version 1.6) and the Telebit was equipped with
    their current version (Rom Version 3.00).

    The Microcom utilizes MNP Class 6 as a form of error correction,
    but the Microcom's implementation appears to be less tolerant of
    noisy Central Offices, weather changes and long distance
    connections.  If utilized within a one hundred (100) mile radius
    the modem appears to communicate reliably with another Microcom
    of the same type.  Technical support is available for the
    product, but this support is somewhat onesided, when called about
    a problem, they do not appear to have the desire to call back
    with a solution if one is found.  On two occasions I have had to
    make calls to obtain the answer to a question which was given to
    them.  They have stated that the modem works best when "No
    Protocol" is used to transmit the data.  This would require Opus,
    Seadog, BinkleyTerm and presumably Fido Version 12 to provide for
    this modem and develop some sort of protocol when talking to
    another Microcom.  Users of this modem will notice that the modem
    must be sent the dialing string twice in order for it to actually
    dial the number.  It also appears to be slower to respond to
    commands issued from the keyboard (Opus' "K" command for
    example).

    The Trailblazer works directly out of the box, just like the
    Microcom, but requires a different type of setup string, in that
    Telebit utilizes internal switches instead of the more
    recognizable commands.  The Trailblazer appears to talk well in
    almost every situation, yet to be tested is the super long
    FidoNews 4-48                Page 4                   28 Dec 1987


    distance communication to a super noisy central office
    environment.  The physical size of this modem is larger than the
    Microcom but also provided is a fan for cooling and an on/off
    switch.  The options, once written into the memory of the machine
    remain there until changed by the Sysop.  This modem works in
    both the Opus and SEAdog environments and it is assumed to also
    work in the Fido Version 12 environment.  Technical support was
    not used during the first 120 days of the test but additional
    data will be attached to the next report if it is utilized.

    Modem set-up for the Telebit Trailblazer and the Ven-Tel
    Pathfinder 18K are as follows:

        E1 F1 M0 Q0 P V1 X1
        S0=1 S1=0 S2=43 S3=13 S4=10 S5=8 S6=2 S7=60 S8=2 S9=6 S10=7
        S11=70 S12=50
        S45=0 S47=4 S48=0 S49=0
        S50=0 S51=5 S52=1 S53=1 S54=3 S55=0 S56=17 S57=19 S58=2 S59=0
        S60=0 S61=13 S62=3 S63=1 S64=0 S65=0 S66=1 S67=0 S68=2
        S90=0 S91=0 S92=0 S95=0
        S100=0 S101=0 S102=0 S104=0
        S110=255 S111=255 S112=1
        S121=0

    Note:  Pathfinder settings differ a bit.  Set S09=3, S53=4 and
           S64=1 when using Binkley Term.

    SEAdog Init Strings (4.1)  Modem (Type Not used)

        MODEM COM1
        Modem Lock 19200   OR 9600 FOR XT'S
        Modem Init AT E1 V1 X1 S0=1 S7=50
        Modem Reset AT S0=0

    OPUS 1.03a

        Modem Init ~|AT E1 V1 X1 S0=1 S7=55|

    config.sys entry

        DEVICE=X00.SYS E B,0,19200   FOR AT CLASS MACHINES
          -or-
        DEVICE=X00.SYS E B,0,9600    FOR XT CLASS MACHINES


    The Microcom AX9624c has external switches which must be set
    before the modem is placed on line.  The rear switch bank
    contains 8 switches, all switches must be up except for switches
    3 and 7.  On the front panel, switches 1, 6, 7, 9 and 10 are up
    with the others (2, 3, 4, 5 and 8) are down.  Additionally, the
    A/S switch must be released and in an out position.

    The Init strings for the Microcom is as follows:

    SEAdog 4.1

    FidoNews 4-48                Page 5                   28 Dec 1987


        MODEM H24
        MODEM COM1
        MODEM BAUD 19200    OR 9600 FOR XT SYSTEMS
        MODEM SETUP AT H0 M0 E0 X4 V1 Q0 S0=1 S7=55 \V1 \Q0 \X0 \N3 %C1 \J0
        MODEM RESET ATZ

    Opus 1.03a

        Modem Init AT H0 M0 E0 X4 V1 Q0 S0=1 S7=55 \V1 \Q0 \X0 \N3 %C1 \J0


    Config.sys Entry

        DEVICE=X00.SYS E B,0,19200    FOR AT'S
           -or-
        DEVICE=X00.SYS E B,0,9600     FOR XT'S

    The Hayes V-Series 9600 Modem was then tested by the committee
    and was found to be able to communicate with another Hayes V-
    Series 9600 in either an Opus to Opus or an Opus to Seadog or
    Seadog to Seadog envirnoment.  Throughput on this modem, using
    standard Echomail packets did not exceed 628 CPS, but when used
    in a standalone environment, file transfers did approach 800 CPS
    when using ZModem protocol for file up/downloads.  The set up
    used on this modem is the same one as found in the OPUS.CTL file.

    It is important to note that although this modem gave the lowest
    average transfer rates, the representatives from Hayes are
    continuing to work with the committee to evaluate the setting
    utilized and attempt to isolate the problem.  There will be
    furthur testing on this modem, providing that Hayes will allow us
    to have access to the modem in the future.  Until that time, we
    will simply state that the modem does work in all of the current
    environments in use today.

    The committee also obtained two of the new US Robotics HST modems
    equipped with the MNP 5 programming.  To date our testing has
    shown that when tranferring data from one of these new modems to
    a "Old Style" HST, the new modems do not appear to be downwardly
    compatible with the older modems.  These modems when talking to
    another MNP5 modem become very sensitive when using either XModem
    or similiar protocols.  As the tests are not completed at this
    time for these new modems the report on this modem will be
    forwarded at the time that the tests are completed.

    It is important to note that in almost all cases, when dealing
    with a modem which utilizes MNP Protocol 4, 5 or 6 that there
    appears to occur a condition in which the modem to modem link
    becomes questionable to the modems themselves and causes major
    problems when using protocols which utilize error corrction
    routines, such as XModem, since it appears that the two error
    checking routines clash with one another.  This clash appears to
    cause a loss in data transfer rates from 35-60% of the rated
    speed of the interface (UART).

    The committee is also evaluating the Ven-Tel Pathfinder 18K modem
    FidoNews 4-48                Page 6                   28 Dec 1987


    for use within our environment.  The Pathfinder also uses PEP,
    Packetized Ensemble Protocol like the Trailblazer, and it's major
    positive attractions are the smaller size and the setup which
    duplicates the Trailblazer.

    In discussions with the Regional Manager from Microcom, there
    appears to be some inconsistancies when dealing with protocols
    which within themselves provide for error checking.  This is
    evidenced by the lower transfer rates using Xmodem type protocols
    and the higher transfer rates under YModem or IModem.  This
    particular company has stated that they are planning on offering
    a PROM change which will allow high speed without MNP 4, 5 or 6.

    From all of the conversations that we have seen, both in EchoMail
    areas as well as in Private NetMail, there has been a lot of
    discussion concerning which modem if any should be selected as a
    standard for high speed data transmission.  It doubtful that any
    of the manufacturers, except for Telebit, have the capacity
    available to them within the existing modems to duplicate the
    protocols of any of the other brands currently in the
    marketplace.  It is felt that at the current V.29 standard there
    will exist no one standard, therefore the battle for marketshare
    will be made by price alone and not by the technology itself.
    The V.32 standard, however, will force each of the manufacturers
    to adopt one standard for High Speed data communications and will
    force the standard as it will be an International Standard for
    all manufacturers and not open to interpretation by each of the
    modem manufacturers.  Until that happens, it is doubtful that any
    one manufacturer will be able to capture more than a percentage
    of the market.

    Anyone wishing to forward their comments may do so to me at 16/0
    or 16/2.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FidoNews 4-48                Page 7                   28 Dec 1987


    This is a copy of an open echo mail message I received on
    12/14/87. My reply to this message is also here. I think everyone
    should read both of these and send comments as soon as possible.
    This could have a drastic effect on our Net, and we need input
    (good or bad) from EVERY Sysop in the Net as soon as possible.


    Date:  12-12-87  19:13
    From:  David Hart
    To:    William Bertholff
    Subj:  AN OPEN MESSAGE


    I feel obligated to comment on today's Sysop meeting which, in my
    opinion, was nothing less than a fiasco.

    On or about November 13, you asked us by netmail if we would be
    interested in attending a Sysop meeting to explore forming a
    Sysop Association. One month was adequate notice but the meeting
    was not confirmed until about one week ago. At that time, you
    sent the original respondents the files for the meeting including
    an agenda, "proposed" articles of the Association and a statement
    of ethics.

    Though the entire Net 107 could be effected by these actions, you
    chose to supply this material only to those individuals who
    indicated an interest in attending. You have subsequently stated
    that the files were posted at the IGATE (who would know and so
    what?).

    A few days ago, you and I spoke by telephone. Rather than discuss
    any of the issues at hand we discussed the format of the meeting.
    I thought that we both agreed that the format would be a forum to
    openly discuss our views. I expressed my fears that the meeting
    would become either autocratic or technocratic. You assured me
    this would not be the case.

    I arrived, as schedule at 12:00 noon.

    You arrived, without apology, at 1:00 PM.

    From the outset, you made it very clear that this was your
    meeting. You stifled discussion. You yelled and screamed (like a
    child) at cross talk.

    Nevertheless you made no attempt to follow an agenda or do
    anything in a democratic or in a professional manner.



    Now I run a prosperous company. I have been the COO of a
    $40,000,000 organization and I won't be subjected to your temper
    tantrums.

    During the first hour, in your absence, I spoke with the attorney
    who you had hired (without anybody's consent).  I was informed
    FidoNews 4-48                Page 8                   28 Dec 1987


    that you had encumbered (without authorization) the association-
    to-be to the tune of $2,500 which the lawyer had agreed to
    discount to $700.  I also learned that you instructed counsel
    (without prior consent of anyone else) to form a FOR PROFIT
    corporation.

    From a tax and organizational standpoint this would be
    preposterous but in true Bertholff style, ya' just did it! This
    meant that my buy in would include assumption of YOUR structure
    and YOUR legal fees.

    Frankly, a better first step would have been to form the
    association and then to have the association retain counsel and
    draft by-laws in accordance with the wishes of the membership as
    contrasted to the wishes of William.

    During the "meeting" you presented and allowed some other people
    to present their views for what the association could and should
    be.

    We differed in that YOU were suggesting that the association, by
    natural process over time become net 107 (or visa versa). I
    agreed and suggested that the association become the legal entity
    formed by Net 107. I felt that your approach was deceptive to the
    Net but you didn't want to hear it and wouldn't allow discussion.
    We both know that, though this was not a net 107 meeting you were
    attempting to form a legal entity that would control the net. You
    admitted as much.  Unfortunately, your way of doing things is
    through self-egrandizing subterfuge.

    You then asked that we agree to accept the by-laws which were
    never discussed. You further suggested that we agree to meet
    again in late February to elect officers.

    I suggested that we form a steering committee to author a "Call
    for Comment" of net 107 of the by-laws as you had drafted them
    and that the steering committee draft revised by-laws based on
    the input of the entire net.

    These would then be presented for ratification in the February
    meeting. No time would be lost but some of your power might be.
    Others suggested that this might not be practical and that the
    by-laws could "always be changed".

    However I think some people lost sight of the fact that this
    change would have to then be by 2/3 majority rather than a simple
    majority. Therefor, it is possible that a minority could
    effectively control the organization.

    You then had the unmitigated gall to present the situation as
    your way or no way. NO DISCUSSION, NO IDEAS, NO DISAGREEMENT;
    King Bertholff. I tried to get my point across diplomatically and
    inoffensively but you can't handle anyone disagreeing with you.

    At this point, you slammed a fist down on the table, had an
    enormous temper tantrum and stormed out of the room.  You behaved
    FidoNews 4-48                Page 9                   28 Dec 1987


    like a 3 year old child who couldn't get his way. You asked those
    who disagreed with your approach to leave and I did (strange form
    of democracy).

    I came prepared to join (check in wallet). I left with nothing.

    I call for your immediate resignation as Network Host.  If that
    does not occur I will ask those who feel as I do to form a "more
    perfect" network in this area!

    David Cary Hart

    ---
     * Origin: Cary Hart Assoc CareerPath BBS:212-696-9777
    (Opus 1:107/117)


    Here is my reply to the above message.

    Date:  12-14-87  10:33
    From:  Gene Coppola
    To:    David Hart
    Subj:  Re: AN OPEN MESSAGE

    This is a reply to the echo mail about the meeting held Saturday.

    I was at first in favor of this new association. Now I am not so
    sure! Here are some of my concerns.

    The first question I have is a simple one. I am a host/hub for a
    private network (33 systems - Pace University) and have been
    refused the use of certain software granted to other hubs/hosts
    in the normal network. If 107 incorporates and becomes a FOR
    PROFIT corporation will they lose the right to use some of IFNA's
    software as well? If so, then this could be a problem.

    The second question I have is regarding taxes.  Stockholders in a
    FOR PROFIT corp. must pay taxes on earnings, if I understand the
    IRS laws on this matter?  Also, who pays the corporation taxes,
    etc; required by state law?

    Third, what state will this corporation be started in?

    Fourth, what protection if any will it grant a sysop from
    liability resulting from, incorrect phone numbers, messages
    containing information not normally public (unknown to sysop) and
    other protections? And, does not IFNA provide these same
    protections as well?

    Fifth, as a FOR PROFIT corporation, does it not go against the
    very reasons behind the initial formation of Fidonet?

    Sixth, if a node currently in Net107 refuses to join the
    corporation does he lose the right to use his hub, and the
    resulting OGATE?

    FidoNews 4-48                Page 10                  28 Dec 1987


    Seventh, by forming this corporation, will the resulting Net
    still be included in the official "IFNA NODELIST"?  Perhaps not,
    we will have to see how IFNA will rule on this A comment from
    IFNA would be nice if IFNA cares to make one on what effect it
    would have.

    Eighth, what costs would be involved both to the sysops who join,
    and the sysops who don't join? Will the IGATE start charging to
    handle incoming mail? Will the OGATE start charging to handle
    outgoing mail? Will OTHER Nets charge to handle mail from 107
    systems?

    And last, since Net 107 is NOW IN EXISTENCE, I feel that any move
    like this to organize should be made, by FIRST applying to the
    Regional Coordinator for a NEW Net Number Assignment for the
    corporation. I am sure there will be some people who WILL NOT
    desire to join, so why inconvenience them? If people feel a need
    to form a new corporation then they should break away and obtain
    a new Net number for their group! There are plenty of people in
    Net107 who can take over the various duties, if it comes to this!

    I think this is a SERIOUS issue, that needs to be fully discussed
    BEFORE anyone votes on this matter.  Comments pro and con are
    welcome from anyone interested!



    That ends my reply. I am not saying that anything in the above
    reply will come true. These are just questions I feel I need
    answers to BEFORE I vote on this matter.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FidoNews 4-48                Page 11                  28 Dec 1987


    Sak, 107/529

                        The Other Side of MetroNet

    Apparently, the meeting of December 12th didn't satisfy everyone.
    A message has been going around the net intended to  explain  the
    events  of  that  meeting  in  such  a  way  as  to color William
    Bertholff as Hitler.  Seeing as I also attended this  meeting,  I
    thought  another point of view might balance the net's perception
    a bit better.

    About a month or so prior to the meeting,  Bill posted a net wide
    invitation to all sysops.  As a courtesy, I responded saying that
    I doubted that I could manage to make it into NYC. Bill called me
    voice and helped arrange a ride  for  me.  Later,  the  meeting's
    location  was  changed  to New Brunswick and my commuting problem
    vanished. Nonetheless, it should be noted that when I showed even
    the slightest bit of interest, Bill responded, and responded in a
    manner intended to solve those problems that stood between me and
    my attendance.

    At some point during the next few weeks,  I received a call  from
    Bill  notifying me that several files would be sent to my system.
    He  explained  further  that  these  files  were  the  definitive
    documents  of  a proposed BBS related organization and should be,
    therefore, read carefully.

    In other words,  he was calling a meeting to show his  peers  the
    work he had done and asking them to accept or reject it.

    Granted,  those  that didn't respond to that invitation,  may not
    have had the background I did,  but,  considering the  amount  of
    work  such  a task entails,  I can surely understand making those
    who showed interest the target of  the  work.  Egos,  being  what
    they are,  and practicality,  being what it is,  often collide in
    bruised self-interest.  Most understand and make  room  for  this
    relationship;  some  don't  and,  in  so doing,  belittle all but
    superhuman efforts.

    The meeting was to start at 12 noon.  Bill wasn't there  at  that
    time  so  the  lawyer  retained  by  Bill opened the meeting.  He
    explained that:

     1) he in no way represented any incumbrance  to  anyone  in  the
        room,

     2) only  in the event the organization was accepted by the group
        did he expect any payment at all,

     3) he was willing to discount  his  fee  for  the  sake  of  the
        organization creation,

     4) such  and organization was necessary for numerous reasons (of
        which he gave very good examples), and

     5) related his background in law to verify his credentials.
    FidoNews 4-48                Page 12                  28 Dec 1987


    Of the Sysops present (maybe 25 at the time,  although the number
    grew  to  over 40),  two Sysops assumed a confrontational posture
    asserting that Bill had no right to retain a lawyer for them, nor
    did the lawyer have any right to incumber them. The lawyer simply
    restated that no one was  incumbered  and  that  Bill  alone  had
    retained him.  Nonetheless,  these two pressed the same questions
    again and again.  In fact,  discussion was reduced to a three way
    conversation to the exclusion of the rest of us.

    At  about  1pm  Bill  arrived.  The  anonymous  message's  author
    maintains that he did so without  apology.  This  is  untrue.  He
    apologized  about missing his train,  and immediately got down to
    business.

    He began by asking everyone present to make some noncontroversial
    changes to the articles and ethics standards.  These changes were
    culled  over  the  preceding week from conversations with several
    sysops.  Largely these changes were inconsequential to the  sense
    of the document, save the change from 3 board members to 5. Next,
    he explained the "big picture" (i.  e., the why's and wherefore's
    of  such  and  organization).  Then  he  opened  the  meeting  to
    questions from the floor.

    During  the  question  period,  one  of  the  two sysops that had
    previously taken the lawyer to task,  demanded that he be allowed
    to  make  a  statement.  Bill  reminded  him  that  he was taking
    questions at present,  that there would be a  time  for  comments
    later. The sysop persisted, making asking question very difficult
    in deed.  Nonetheless,  quite a few were asked, and Bill answered
    them all candidly.  Once the questions stopped, and after another
    sysop announced that he supported the proposed organization (over
    Bill's objections that he too was out of order,  I might add),  a
    ten minute break was announced so that sysops  could  talk  among
    themselves.  The  break  lasted 20 minutes and everyone exchanged
    opinions.

    The meeting reconvened,  and the floor was opened for discussion.
    The  sysop  that demanded to make a statement during the question
    period,  now demanded to ask questions.  Once  again  this  sysop
    asserted  that  Bill  had no right to do any of the things he had
    done; that Bill had some how stolen everyone's rights. I think at
    this point everyone was pretty fed up with  the  same  questions,
    the  same  accusations,  the same "if-you-make-your-idea-MY-idea-
    I'll-be-quiet",  but order was the privilege of the  chair.  Bill
    did  attempt  to  call order any number of times,  but this sysop
    persisted  in  trying  to  assert  his  out-of-order   questions.
    Finally,  Bill  slammed his fist to the table and demanded order.
    With that, a very small contingent of sysops walked out.

    Thus the letter of complaint came to be.

    In it the writer lays claim to  superior  business  judgement  by
    stating that he runs his own organization and once was the CEO of
    a  $40,000,000  firm.  I  wish  I could tell you how many times I
    heard that at the meeting.  I also run my own  company  and  have
    done  so  for  more  than  10 years;  I think I can make business
    FidoNews 4-48                Page 13                  28 Dec 1987


    decisions too, and most of mine have paid off just fine.  I would
    like  to  tell  the  writer of that message here and now that his
    resume doesn't mean that "no one else can  think".  Besides,  the
    moderate  successes  that  it reports seem to indicate a downhill
    trend.

    The letter also states that incorporating in  NYC  is  the  wrong
    thing  to  do.  I have my own opinion on this,  but I do remember
    this post-CEO of a $40,000,000 company proclaiming to the meeting
    that he could offer  NYC  office  space  should  the  company  be
    incorporated there.  It's interesting that now, once the post-CEO
    of a $40,000,000 company walked out  of  the  meeting,  this  has
    become a bad idea altogether and proof of bad decision making.

    Furthermore,  the  letter  states  that  it  is terrible that the
    lawyer and Bill incumbered the organization-to-be.  I sure  would
    like  to  know  what  the  author  expected.  It seems to me,  we
    received the cheapest legal advice any of us are likely  to  get.
    It  also  seems  to  me,  the lawyer bent over backwards to be as
    accommodating fee-wise as is humanly possible.  If anything,  I'd
    say that Bill cut a mean deal, and that we should all be grateful
    for it.

    The   author   maintains   that   a  FOR-PROFIT  organization  is
    ridiculous, that it should be NONPROFIT organization. I'll really
    have to check my facts here,  but I believe there  are  far  more
    governmental  regulations  and  red  tape  attached  to nonprofit
    organizations  than  there  are  to   for-profit   organizations.
    Furthermore,  the tax liability issue is easily managed by virtue
    of the organization's ability to manage its profits.  Once again,
    it seems to me, the choice was a wise one.

    The  letter  also mentioned that by buying into the organization,
    one  would  also  be  buying   into   Bill's   legal   fees   and
    organizational  structures.  I  never  bought  into anything that
    didn't  have  overhead  as  a  cost   consideration.   CEO's   of
    $40,000,000  companies  usually deal with this concept daily.  Be
    that as it may,  buying into the structure still remains.  As far
    as I can remember,  I must have seen 100 different structures for
    as many organizations.  Most of them seem to work as long as  the
    people involved want them to. It's pretty obvious to me, overhead
    and  organizational  structure aren't really the objections here;
    rather they are skinned egos and self-importance.

    All in all,  I have to say I'm glad Bill took  the  bull  by  the
    horns.  For  too  long the net has been talking about the weather
    but doing nothing about it.  Now,  that one of  our  members  has
    taken the initiative to do something about it,  some seem to feel
    cheated rather than gratified. Perhaps this is a natural feeling.
    Bill's action has underscored the notion that other  people  have
    good ideas too . . . with or without CEO approval.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FidoNews 4-48                Page 14                  28 Dec 1987


    =================================================================
                                 NOTICES
    =================================================================

                         The Interrupt Stack


     1 Jan 1988
       Genesis of the Intergalactic Sysop Alliance, and publication
       of the first AlterNet node list.

     9 Jan 1988
       The next net 104 FidoNet Sysop Meeting.  Contact Oscar Barlow
       at 104/0 for information.

    26 Jan 1988
       Australia Day. Australia celebrates 200 years of colonization.

    25 Aug 1988
       (pending BoD approval) Start of the Fifth International
       FidoNet Conference, to be held at the Drawbridge Inn in
       Cincinnatti, OH.  Contact Tim Sullivan at 108/62 for more
       information.  This is FidoNet's big annual get-together, and
       is your chance to meet all the people you've been talking with
       all this time.  We're hoping to see you there!

    24 Aug 1989
       Voyager 2 passes Neptune.


    If you have something which you would like to see on this
    calendar, please send a message to FidoNet node 1:1/1.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

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    Utility authors:  Please help  keep  this  list  up  to  date  by
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    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FidoNews 4-48                Page 15                  28 Dec 1987


                                     __
                The World's First   /  \
                   BBS Network     /|oo \
                   * FidoNet *    (_|  /_)
                                   _`@/_ \    _
                                  |     | \   \\
                                  | (*) |  \   ))
                     ______       |__U__| /  \//
                    / Fido \       _//|| _\   /
                   (________)     (_/(_|(____/ (tm)

           Membership for the International FidoNet Association

    Membership in IFNA is open to any individual or organization that
    pays  a  specified  annual   membership  fee.   IFNA  serves  the
    international  FidoNet-compatible  electronic  mail  community to
    increase worldwide communications.

    Member Name _______________________________  Date _______________
    Address _________________________________________________________
    City ____________________________________________________________
    State ________________________________  Zip _____________________
    Country _________________________________________________________
    Home Phone (Voice) ______________________________________________
    Work Phone (Voice) ______________________________________________
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    _________________________________________________________________
    _________________________________________________________________
    Send this membership form and a check or money order for $25 in
    US Funds to:
                  International FidoNet Association
                  c/o Leonard Mednick, MBA, CPA
                  700 Bishop Street, #1014
                  Honolulu, Hawaii 96813-4112
                  USA

    Thank you for your membership!  Your participation will  help  to
    insure the future of FidoNet.

    Please  NOTE  that  IFNA is a general not-for-profit organization
    and Articles of Association  and  By-Laws  were  adopted  by  the
    membership in January 1987.  The first elected Board of Directors
    was filled in August 1987.  The IFNA Echomail Conference has been
    established  on  FidoNet  to  assist  the Board.  We welcome your
    input to this Conference.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    FidoNews 4-48                Page 16                  28 Dec 1987


                    INTERNATIONAL FIDONET ASSOCIATION
                                ORDER FORM

                               Publications

    The IFNA publications can be obtained by downloading from Fido
    1:1/10 or  other FidoNet compatible  systems, or by purchasing
    them directly from IFNA.  We ask that  all our  IFNA Committee
    Chairmen   provide  us   with  the  latest  versions  of  each
    publication, but we can make no written guarantees.

    Hardcopy prices as of October 1, 1986

       IFNA Fido BBS listing                       $15.00    _____
       IFNA Administrative Policy DOCs             $10.00    _____
       IFNA FidoNet Standards Committee DOCs       $10.00    _____

                                                 SUBTOTAL    _____

                     IFNA Member ONLY Special Offers

       System Enhancement Associates SEAdog        $60.00    _____
       SEAdog price as of March 1, 1987
       ONLY 1 copy SEAdog per IFNA Member

       Fido Software's Fido/FidoNet               $100.00    _____
       Fido/FidoNet price as of November 1, 1987
       ONLY 1 copy Fido/FidoNet per IFNA Member

       International orders include $10.00 for
              surface shipping or $20.00 for air shipping    _____

                                                 SUBTOTAL    _____

                   HI. Residents add 4.0 % Sales tax         _____

                                                 TOTAL       _____

       SEND CHECK OR MONEY ORDER IN US FUNDS:
       International FidoNet Association
       c/o Leonard Mednick, MBA, CPA
       700 Bishop Street, #1014
       Honolulu, HI.  96813-4112
       USA

    Name________________________________
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    Address_____________________________
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    Voice Phone_________________________

    Signature___________________________

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