F I D O N E W S Volume 16, Number 07 15 February 1999

F I D O N E W S Volume 16, Number 07 15 February 1999
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | +27-41-515-913 [5:5/23] |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: |
| | (*) | \ )) | Henk Wolsink 5:7104/2 |
| |__U__| / \// | |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Submission address: FidoNews Editor 5:5/23 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MORE addresses: |
| |
| submissions=> [email protected] |
| [email protected] |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies of FidoNews or the internet gateway FAQ |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1
2. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 2
Cat Fight in the Backbone - Douglas Myers ................ 2
3. ARTICLES ................................................. 4
ECHO TALK - Kay Shapero on Cooperation ................... 4
4. NOTICES .................................................. 5
5. FIDONET BY INTERNET ...................................... 6
6. FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 10
FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 1 15 Feb 1999

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EDITORIAL
=================================================================

Greetings,

And you had a good Valentine's Day? Great!

And what happens now, that Billy is found not guilty? What a circus
that was. Such a waste of money, only the guys in the US of A can do.
Well, I suppose it's all part of politics, which only the people in
Zone 1 can understand. ;-)

What is happening in Zone 2, Region 29? I believe there are some very
disgruntled SysOps there, who just had it with their Z2C.

And my sympathy to all the Jordanians on the loss of their King.

Read well,

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FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 2 15 Feb 1999

=================================================================
GUEST EDITORIAL
=================================================================

Cat Fight in the Backbone

Cat Fight in the Backbone
Douglas Myers, 1:270/720, [email protected]

Arguments in the BACKBONE echo were described a while back as "Cats
tossing sand at each other." The cats have abandoned scratching the
sand in favor of scratching each other :(

In the last two weeks, John Souvestre has been asked to leave the
NAB, George Peace has been asked, Ken Wilson has been criticized for
holding echomail, Butch Walker has been asked to resign as OBO, and
several other mail movers have been invited to leave. One could
easily get the impression that these folks don't want to work
together any more.

There have been some technical problems, for sure... but the
arguments have moved beyond problem resolution and into the realm
of punishment for those who have failed to move the mail in an
acceptable manner. The conversation has strayed from how to best
make the mail move for Fidonet as a whole to a discussion on who is
the "best" mail mover.

Echomail and Netmail are still moving*, though one questions how
long it will continue if the mail movers don't want to work with
each other. Cooperation is especially critical in a hobby, because
the only real incentive to making things work is the satisfaction
which each individual derives.

Figure out how to work together, folks. I don't know how to restore
enjoyment to the hobby for you all, but I'll make a few suggestions:

1. Remember the contributions which each of the mail movers has
made to Fido instead of concentrating on the individual weaknesses
or failures. Now is a time for restoring the satisfaction to the
hobby, not a time for picking each other apart.

2. Concentrate on one technical problem at a time, rather than
trying to draw a broad principle from each one. Now is a time for
making things work, not pledging allegiance to policy documents.

3. Stop asking each other to leave. It's true that Fido could
probably work without any specific individual, but the "invitations"
foster an atmosphere where no one will want to pick up the slack.

A while back, I'd been impressed with echomail from Kay Shapero, so
I'd saved it. Though it was written before the current round of
infighting in the BACKBONE echo, it applies. I've submitted it as a
separate article.

* Ironically, I was cut off from echomail and netmail for a couple
FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 3 15 Feb 1999

of days this week. So far as I know at this point, it was a local
problem - My NC couldn't connect with George Peace - and it's been
resolved, but I was wondering if the big boys had pulled the plug...

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FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 4 15 Feb 1999

=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================

ECHO TALK - Key Shapero on Cooperation

. -- -- -- -- -- ECHO TALK -- -- -- -- -- .
| Food for thought from Fido's echomail. |
| Purloined without permission by D Myers |
` -- -- -- -- -- -- - -- -- -- -- -- -- '

Kay Shapero on Cooperation
--------------------------

DM> I remember that cooperation stuff. I think it got replaced by
DM>P4 about ten years ago :(

Actually it still goes on (speaking as one of the folks who just
finished voluntarily notifying every moderator who hadn't checked in
since the change of echolist keeper, to make sure they knew where to
mail their updates). What people tend to forget is that P4 is a set
of operational rules, not laws.

Operational rules tell you how to do something, and if you don't
follow them it doesn't get done. Laws tell you what you MUST do (or
not do) under pain of enforcement. Operational rules can be pretty
broad, so long as the necessary information appears in sufficient
detail that the reader can figure out how to do it right. Laws have
to be incredibly specific, in order to avoid loopholes.
Operational rules are like explaining to a human being; laws are more
like programming a computer. And ultimately, operational rules exist
on the assumption that those involved intend to cooperate, laws on the
assumption that a significant fraction do NOT.

I submit that there isn't enough true enforcement power in the
entirety of FIDOnet to convert it into a true rule by law
organization, but that the attempt, if carried through forcefully
enough can kill it. I know I'd be unlikely to hang around... and like
the rest of us I do have other places to go.

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FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 5 15 Feb 1999

=================================================================
NOTICES
=================================================================

Future History

16 Feb 1999
13th Anniversary of the introduction of EchoMail by Jeff Rush.

12 May 1999
12th Anniversary of Fido Operations in Zone 4;
10th Anniversary of the creation of FidoNet Zone 4.

24 Jul 1999
XIII Pan American Games [through 8 Aug 99].

9 Jun 1999
Tenth Anniversary of the adoption of FidoNet Policy 4.07.

10 Sep 1999
10th anniversary of Zone 5 operations.

26 Oct 1999
Thirty years from release Abbey Road album by the Beatles.

31 Dec 1999
Hogmanay, Scotland. The New Year that can't be missed.

1 Jan 2000
The 20th Century, C.E., is still taking place thru 31 Dec.

1 Jun 2000
EXPO 2000 World Exposition in Hannover (Germany) opens.

15 Sep 2000
Sydney (Australia) Summer Olympiad opens.

21 Sep 2000
10 years of FidoNet in +7 (xUSSR)

1 Jan 2001
This is the actual start of the new millennium, C.E.

-- If YOU have something which you would like to see in this
Future History, please send a note to the FidoNews Editor.

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FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 6 15 Feb 1999

=================================================================
FIDONET BY INTERNET
=================================================================

This is a list of all FidoNet-related sites reported to the
FidoNews Editor as of this issue; see the notice at the end.

FidoNet:

Homepage http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
http://209.77.228.66/fidonews.html [ASCII]
WWW sources http://travel.to/fidonet/
FTSC page http://www.ftsc.org/
Echomail [pending]
General http://owls.com/~jerrys/fidonet.html
http://www.nrgsys.com/orb/foti
List servers:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fidonet-discussion

============

Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org

Region 10: http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html

Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/

Region 13:

Net 264: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm

Region 14:

Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/

Region 17: http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/

Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

Region 19: http://www.compconn.net/r19

Zone 1 Elist http://www.baltimoremd.com/elist/

Not sure where the following should be placed:

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/snwvlly/fido.html

============

Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org

ZEC2:
Zone 2 Elist: http://www.fbone.ch/echolist/

Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 7 15 Feb 1999

Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/~lbehet/fido (English/German)

Region 25: http://www.bsnet.co.uk/net2502/net/

Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb

Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm

Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)

Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)

Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)

Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://pobox.com/~chr

Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/

Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html

Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)

Region 42: http://www.fido.cz

Region 48: http://www.fidonet.org.pl

Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5073: http://people.weekend.ru/soa/ (Russian)

============

Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org

============

Zone 4:

Region 90: http://visitweb.com/fidonet
Net 903: http://www.playagrande.com/refugio
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

============

Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/index.htm

============

Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org
FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 8 15 Feb 1999

Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html (Chinese)

============

Pages listed above are as submitted to the FidoNews Editor,
and generally reflect Zone and Regional Web Page sites. If
no Regional site is submitted, the first Network page from
that Region is used in its place. Generally, Regional pages
should list access points to all Networks within the Region.

TCP/IP accessible node access information should be submitted
to the FidoNews Editor for inclusion in their Region or Zone.

-----------oOo-------------

Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed | Basic Rate
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
1:12/12 | Ken Wilson | FTP | T1 | $24mo.
1:13/25 | Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
1:106/1 | Matt Bedynek | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 64k | $5/$15mo.
1:106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP,VMoT | 64k | $5/mo.
1:107/451 | Andy Knifel | FTP, VMoT, UUE | 33.6 | n/c
1:124/7008 | Ben Hamilton | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 64k | $10/$20mo.
1:140/12 | Bob Seaborn | FTP | T1 | $5/$20
1:270/101 | George Peace | FTP | T1 | $30mo.
1:271/140 | Tom Barstow | UUE | T1 | n/c
1:275/1 | Joshua Ecklund | UUE | 28.8 | $10/yr.
1:280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
1:2401/305 | Peter Rocca | FTP,UUE | T1 | unkn
1:2424/10 | Alec Grynspan | FTP,UUE | T1 | n/c
1:2604/104 | Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo.
1:2624/306 | D. Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | $15yr.
1:345/0 | Todd Cochrane | FTP | T1 | n/c
1:346/250 | Aran Spence | FTP,UUE | T1 | $10mo.
1:396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr.
1:3651/9 | Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
1:396/1 | John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1 | $15mo.
2:33/505 | Mario Mure | VMoT,UUE | 64k | n/c
2:254/175 | Alex Kemp | UUE | 56k | n/c
2:284/800 | Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
2:335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
2:469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
2:2411/413 | Dennis Dittrich | UUE | 64k | n/c
2:2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
3:633/260 | Malcolm Miles | FTP | 33.6 | n/c
4:905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT, UUE | ??? | n/c
5:7104/2 | Henk Wolsink | FTP | 28.8 | n/c
--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
[I'm only cataloging transfer methods, eg, ftp, email, telnet.
Specific programs using these protocols are no longer being listed.
Contact the system operators for details of which programs they have
FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 9 15 Feb 1999

available.]

Compiled by C. Ingersoll, 1:2623/71, (609)814-1978, [email protected]
Posted on the 1st of every month in FN_SYSOP, R13SYSOP and Fidonews.

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FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 10 15 Feb 1999

=================================================================
FIDONEWS INFORMATION
=================================================================

------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION -------

Editor: Henk Wolsink

Editors Emeriti: Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell,
Donald Tees, Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg

"FidoNews Editor"
FidoNet 5:5/23
BBS +27-41-515-913, 2400/9600/V.34/V.90

more addresses:
Henk Wolsink -- 5:7104/2, [email protected]

(Postal Service mailing address)
FidoNews Editor
P.O. Box 12325
Port Elizabeth,
6006
South Africa

------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation
of individual articles contributed by their authors or their
authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation
does not diminish the rights of the authors. OPINIONS EXPRESSED in
these articles ARE THOSE OF THE AUTHORS and not necessarily those of
FidoNews and/or the Editor.

Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright (C) 1999 Henk Wolsink. All rights reserved. Duplication
and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For
use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or
the Editor.

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews Editor via manual download or
file-request, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above postal
address. File-request FIDONEWS for the current Issue. File-request
FNEWS for the current month in one archive. Or file-request specific
back Issue filenames in distribution format [FNEWSGnn.ZIP] for a
particular Issue. Monthly Volumes are available as FNWSmmmy.ZIP
where mmm = three letter month [JAN - DEC] and y = last digit of the
current year [8], i.e., FNWSJAN8.ZIP for all the Issues from Jan 98.

FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 11 15 Feb 1999

Annual volumes are available as FNEWSn.ZIP where n = the Volume number
1 - 15 for 1984 - 1998, respectively. Annual Volume archives range in
size from 48K to 1.4M.

INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via:

http://www.fidonews.org
** http://www.fidonet.org/fidonews.htm
** ftp://ftp.fidonet.org/pub/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.irvbbs.com/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/Fidonet/Fidonews

And in non-English formats via:

** http://www.hvc.ee/pats/fidonews (Estonian)
http://www.fidonet.pp.se/sfnews (Swedish)

** LINK HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED

*=*=*

You may obtain an email subscription to FidoNews by sending email to:

[email protected]

with a Subject line of: subscribe fnews-edist

and no message in the message body. To remove your name from the
email distribution use a Subject line of: unsubscribe fnews-edist
with no message to the same address above.

*

You may retrieve current and previous Issues of FidoNews via FTPMail
by sending email to:

[email protected]

with a Subject line of: help

and FTPMail will immediately send a reply containing details and
instructions. When you actually make a file request, FTPMail will
respond in three stages. You find a link for this process on
www.fidonews.org.

*=*=*

You can read the current FidoNews Issue in HTML format at:

http://www.fidonews.org

STAR SOURCE for ALL Past Issues via FTP and file-request -
Available for FReq from 1:396/1 or by anonymous FTP from:

ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 12 15 Feb 1999

Each yearly archive also contains a listing of the Table-of-Contents
for that year's issues. The total set is currently about 13 Megs.

=*=*=*=

The current week's FidoNews are now also available almost immediately
after publication on the FidoNews Editor homepage on the World Wide
Web at:

http://209.77.228.66/fidonews.html

There are also links there to jim barchuk's HTML FidoNews source and
to John Souvestre's FTP site for the archives. There is also an
email link for sending in an article as message text. Drop on over.

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews Editor, or file-requestable
from 5:5/23 [5:7104/2] as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". ALL Zone Coordinators
should have copies of ARTSPEC.DOC. Please read it.

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA 94141,
and are used with permission.

"Disagreement is actually necessary,
or we'd all have to get in fights
or something to amuse ourselves
and create the requisite chaos."
-Tom Jennings

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