F I D O N E W S -- Volume 14, Number 31 4 August 1997

F I D O N E W S -- Volume 14, Number 31 4 August 1997
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | 1-904-409-7040 [1:1/23] |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: |
| | (*) | \ )) | Christopher Baker 1:18/14 |
| |__U__| / \// | |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: FidoNews Editor 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MORE addresses: |
| |
| submissions=> [email protected] |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies of FidoNews or the internet gateway FAQ |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

This Issue is Headline Free!

Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1
Welcome to KvetchNet? .................................... 1
2. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 2
Fido decline not merely technical ........................ 2
3. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR .................................... 4
Problems in R25 .......................................... 4
FLAME mailing list ....................................... 5
FidoNet Via Internet Hubs ................................ 7
Zone 6 Name Servers needed ............................... 7
4. ARTICLES ................................................. 9
FidoNet need just one more piece of software ............. 9
Say goodbye to equal access? ............................. 10
5. GETTING TECHNICAL ........................................ 17
Another response about InetTM flags ...................... 17
6. NET HUMOR ................................................ 19
Geek Theology? ........................................... 19
7. ADVERTISE YOUR FREE SERVICE/EVENT ........................ 20
Announcing the WRESTLING_CHAT Echo ....................... 20
8. NOTICES .................................................. 21
Future History ........................................... 21
9. FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING ................................. 22
Latest Greatest Software Versions ........................ 22
10. FIDONEWS PUBLIC-KEY ..................................... 26
FidoNews PGP public-key listing .......................... 26
And more!
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 1 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
EDITORIAL
=================================================================

Sometimes it seems like complaining is the only exercise some folks in
FidoNet ever get but I'm sure it's just a by-product of the culture of
whiners produced by the 'ME' generation. At least we don't have law
suits going over every imagined slight or superficial wounding as they
do in the real world. Every cloud has a silver lining? [grin]

There is at least one real alert in today's Issue for those in the
U.S.A. Basic privacy is under threat again in the 'land of the free'
and unless the masses wake up, their next nap may end in a police
state. Kinda makes one want to check out the next local militia
meeting. [yikes!]

I notice the Echomail weenies still don't want to go start their own
Echomail network instead of trying to convert this one. If we could
harness all this unproductive flaming energy, we could send Jodie
Foster to Vega without a machine.

I haven't seen or heard anything of the results of the Zone 3
Coordinator election so there is no follow-up this week. Who won?

Zone 6 needs server assistance and asks for it below. We do get
constructive material from time to time and are happy to assist.

Would anyone out there be interested in translated editions of
FidoNews? Does anyone have or make software that could handle such a
task?

C.B.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 2 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
GUEST EDITORIAL
=================================================================

From: Ken Wiebe <[email protected]>
Subject: Fido decline is not merely a technical issue

I've been involved with fidonet for many years, first as a BBS user,
and for the past 7 or 8 years as sysop of the Classical Liberal BBS
(1:340/47). Your guest editorial in FIDONEWS -- Volume 14, Number 28
14 July 1997 was right on the money in his assessment of the technical
aspects related to the decline of fidonet, and the possible uses of
the internet to reverse that decline. However, there is much more to
this than the technical considerations. Technical decline has happened
in fidonet not because of foreign competition from the internet, but
rather, it is due to rot from within fidonet.

The last paragraph of your guest editorial asks the crucial question:

>>>>
Only one question remains. The question that remains is this: are
there enough good people, hackers, developers, visionaries, and
interest left in the FidoNet to make this new "FidoNet-IP" a
reality?

<<<<

The fact that such people exist is not in doubt. The fact that many of
them are involved to some extent with fidonet is not in doubt. So the
question is: Why is this not being done now?

I suggest that answer to that question lies in the organizational
makeup of fidonet. Fidonet is a hobbyists network, a network composed
of people who like the autonomy and the freedom of a hobby network,
where every sysop is the master of his little domain. In essence, it
is a tinkerer's dream. Much like the intrepid inventors of the 19th
century, every fido sysop has his own little tricks, his own
particular style, and his own way of doing things on his BBS. And that
is how it should be. That's what makes fidonet an interesting and
enjoyable hobby.

However, there is a problem. In order for all the sysops to send mail,
some order has to be drawn out of the chaos and that led to the
creation of a fidonet hierarchy for the purposes of establishing
standards. Nothing wrong with that, so far as it goes, but in recent
years it has gone well beyond that, to the point that certain fidonet
personalities have exceeded their legitimate role and now meddle in
every aspect of fidonet. They have gone as far as threatening to sever
links to whole nodes as a means of avoiding the embarrassment of
admitting to some serious errors in judgement.

A certain amount of 'big-shot-ism' is to be expected in any volunteer
organization, but when it is allowed to grow beyond being merely
annoying, to the point where a few people can order Planet Connect
feed-cuts to whole nodes for non-technical (political) reasons, then
it is no longer a fun hobby for anyone who is harassed and threatened
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 3 4 Aug 1997

in that manner. Such treatment was the reason I severed nearly all
involvement with fidonet, and I do not anticipate re-joining in any
significant way until this problem is adequately addressed by the net.
And, I am far from being alone in this assessment of fidonet.

Nobody with any talent will invest much time and effort in fidonet-
related developments only to see their efforts sabotaged by a small
clique of power-drunk oafs. Especially when those power-drunk oafs are
intent on running the whole show and exercising editorial control of
fidonet. Who needs that sort of hassle?

In conclusion, yes, there are technical issues to resolve if fidonet
is to reverse it's decline... but compared to the organizational
issues, the technical ones are minor. If we re-structure fidonet to be
what it was supposed to be, organized anarchy without any kings,
potentates or fidoghods... then fidonet might actually attract (and
keep) sufficient good people, hackers, developers and visionaries with
enough interest in fidonet to make it worthwhile. Or, leave the
Bodgers, Walkers and Stecks of the world in position to run roughshod
over people and watch fidonet die.

It's your net, and it's your choice.

Ken Wiebe
Classical Liberal BBS (1:340/47)
[email protected]

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 4 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
=================================================================

Date: 29 Jul 97 15:55:29
From: Steve Woodmore on 2:440/410 WOODY'S LINE 1 in Orpington Kent
To: CHRISTOPHER BAKER on 1:18/14 Rights On! in Edgewater FL
Subj: Automatic Message From VMAIL 7.09
______________________________________________________________________

Hi Chris,

Please publish this in the next fidonews for me :)

======================================================================

Protecting the Innocent

Here in R25 we have just had a problem with a BBS USER exploiting a
previously unknown hole within the "Blue Wave" mail door.

This has led to an explosion of obscene "Spams" being posted to almost
every available echo here in this region.

As sysops we can only ever be "re-active" and certainly NOT "pro-
active".

Because these "Spams" crossed the "pond" into Z1, as ZEC/2 my inbox
has been full this week of Z1 moderators requesting that the sysops
who allowed these "Spams" to be posted from their systems be excluded
from their echoes.

Well In conjunction with REC25, as ZEC I will make sure that just will
not be happening.

Forget it, neither of us will sanction a feed cut against a sysop who
could not know about this hole.

I am amazed that some people could even write some of the things that
they have, I have had one guy telling me to cut access to the whole of
NET254 (London Net) because one system in NET254 was hit by this
"spammer".

Incredible!....

These sysops were innocently duped by this "Spammer".

As ZEC and in conjunction with REC25, we made a decision last week
that I thought we would never have to make.

Both of us interfered with and deleted echomail in transit through our
systems, REC25 removed the "spams" from internal R25 echomail, and I
removed them from outbound R25 echomail to Z1.

We did this for several reasons, To protect the innocent sysops who
were duped from over zealous Z1 moderators, to protect other sysops
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 5 4 Aug 1997

who have to move the mail from higher phone bills, and to stop this
"spammers" fun.

This is (I hope) the only time I will ever have to interfere with In
transit echomail again, and it is the only action that will be taken
in regards to these "spams".

I am not the only route for outbound echomail from R25, and these
"spams" may well have got out through other routes.

As a region (R25) we have now done everything possible to minimise
this problem, so any requests for feeds to cut over this arriving here
will just go > NULL.

Steve Woodmore 2:440/410
ZEC/2 2:2/200
Cliff Harrold 2:442/403
REC25 2:25/10

---
E-mail : [email protected]
http://www.proteus.demon.co.uk

-----------------------------------------------------------------

--- Following message extracted from FIDONEWS @ 1:18/14 ---
By Christopher Baker on Sun Aug 03 18:16:24 1997

From: steve steffler
To: christopher baker
Date: 01 Aug 97 22:06:46
Subj: "Welcome to the FLAME Mailing list!"

Can you post this in the snooze, please, Chris? thanks.

======================================================================
* Forwarded by steve steffler (1:342/52.3)
* Area : FN_SYSOP
* From : steve steffler, 1:342/52.3 (01-Aug-97 22:01:37)
* To : All
* Subj : "Welcome to the FLAME Mailing list!"
======================================================================

ss> What do you get back if you send email to [email protected]
ss> with "SUBSCRIBE FLAME" in the body of the message? Somethin' a
ss> little like the following...

/* (FLAME-L.WEL)

Welcome to the FLAME mailing list!

This mailing list is connected to the FLAME discussion group, which
was formerly part of the Fidonet North American Backbone distribution
system. Since it was pulled from the backbone, a group of the
regulars have dedicated themselves to make it as available as possible
to anyone, regardless of the tyranny Fidonet hands out at times. As a
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 6 4 Aug 1997

result, steve steffler ([email protected]) has provided this
mailing list, which will allow anyone with an internet email address
(which encompasses a LOT of people) to participate in the FLAME echo.

What is the FLAME echo? For years, the FLAME echo has been an
internationally distributed Fidonet discussion group where anyone
could come in and vent their anger or have some fun by insulting (or
FLAMEing) the other people there, and the occasional uninformed newbie
that would venture in. Since the people in charge of the North
American Fidonet Backbone (an entity which distributes the Fidonet
content to many points as a commercial service) was getting itself
flamed to death in the FLAME echo, it decided to play war games, and
pulled FLAME from the backbone, leaving it with only a few people who
could access it (those who were connected to it via the Planet Connect
service - see http://www.pconnect.com).

Slowly but surely, many Regional Coordinators and just plain good
hearted individuals who were concerned about echomail censorship
decided to create their own distribution system to replace the
dictators in Fidonet. Thus, the Fidospine and RATBB (Route Around The
Bastards Backbone) were formed. FLAME is once again active,
containing an average of 30-40 new messages a day, and since it is not
an official entity of Fidonet any longer, the general rules of Fidonet
do not necessarily apply. As a result, this mailing list was born, to
facilitate bringing more FLAMErs into the echo who wouldn't normally
have access to it. We are targeting the potential FLAMErs of
newsgroups like the alt.flame.* hierarchy and exFLAMErs who had their
connection to FLAME cut when the North American Backbone exercised
their stupidity.

The moderator of FLAME is John Clifton, but he has essentially cut
loose the echo, since he was sick of the way those in power were
treating himself and it. His old rules were essentially this:

1) No excessive swearing, but the occasional four letter word here and
there is acceptable.

2) No encoded files (MIME,UUE,etc) are to be posted to the mailing
list or the echo.

3) Do not forge your message to make it appear as if you are someone
else.

[Help! I need an old copy of the rules, these are all i can remember
right now! Email me at [email protected] if you have a copy, or
reply to this message with them.]

You subscribed to the mailing list by putting SUBSCRIBE FLAME in a
message to [email protected], didn't you? Well, to unsubscribe,
simply write a message to [email protected] with UNSUBSCRIBE
FLAME in the text of the message (subject line is irrelevant). All
messages received through the mailing list are also posted in or from
the Fidonet FLAME echo, and all messages you post will be posted to
that echo.

Thank you for signing up to the FLAME echo mailing list!
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 7 4 Aug 1997

*/

ss> NOTE: Also available: The REAL_FREE_SPEECH echo, as per
ss> moderator request. Email for details.

ss> [email protected] * http://generica.home.ml.org
=======================================================

-----------------------------------------------------------------

--- Following message extracted from NETMAIL @ 1:18/14 ---
By Christopher Baker on Fri Aug 01 03:22:21 1997

From: C. Ingersoll @ 1:2623/71
To: Editor @ 1:1/23
Date: 01 Aug 97 02:14:20
Subj: Fidonet via Internet Hubs

Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed | Basic Rate
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
1:12/12 | Ken Wilson | FTP | T1 | $24mo.
1:124/7008 | Ben Hamilton | FTP,VMoT,TX | 64k | $20mo.
1:13/25 | Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
1:140/12 | Bob Seaborn | FTP,TX | T1 | $5/$20
1:2222/1 | Ed Georgen | FTP,TX | T1 | unkn
1:2401/305 | Peter Rocca | FTP,TX | T1 | unkn
1:2424/10 | Alec Grynspan | FTP | ??? | $1mo.
1:2604/104 | Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo.
1:2624/306 | D. Calafrancesco | VFOS | 33.6 | $15yr.
1:2651/9 | Jerry Gause | FTP,TX | ??? | unkn
1:270/101 | George Peace | FTP | T1 | $30mo.
1:280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
1:330/204 | Patrick Rosenheim | TX | 28.8 | $25yr.
1:346/250 | Aran Spence | FTP,TX | T1 | $10mo.
1:342/1022 | Steve Steffler | TX,UUE,F2I | 33.6 | n/c
1:396/1 | John Souvestre | FTP | T1 | $25mo.
2:469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
--
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* F2I = Fido2Int (W95)
* UUE = uuencode<->email packet transfers
* TX = TransX (Proprietary uuencode<->email packet transfer
software)

compiled by Cindy Ingersoll, 1:2623/71, (609)814-1978,
[email protected] Posted on the 1st of every month in FN_SYSOP,
R13SYSOP and Fidonews.
---
* Origin: * Fly By Night * (609)814-1978 *(1:2623/71)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:57:16 +0800 (SGT)
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 8 4 Aug 1997

From: Ivan Shim <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fidonet Zone 6 Name Servers

Hello C Baker,

Could you kindly edit and submit the following either as part of your
editorial or as a snippet in an upcoming FidoNews. Thanks.

--- Start

Calling all Fidonetters who are able to run name servers in Zone 6.

Currently only Taiwan and Philippines are running name servers for
nets in the .z6.fidonet.org domain. I would like to call out to
members in the fidonet community in the remaining regions and nets in
Zone 6 to run their own name servers. So that I may be able to
delegate name server records for nets in the remaining Regions. They
are India, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Macau, Japan &
Korea.

Thank you.

Dr Ivan Shim <[email protected]>
Zone 6 Name Server Manager

--- End

----------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Ivan Shim Pager: +65 9-307-7003
E-mail: [email protected] URL http://www.shim.org/~ivan/
Currently in the Accident & Emergency (A&E) Department, New
Changi Hospital (NCH), Singapore. From May 1997 to October 1997.
----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 9 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================

FIDONET NEEDS JUST ONE MORE LITTLE PIECE OF SOFTWARE

By Pete Snidal, 1:354/910

Let's face it; whether you use it yourself or not, you have to
acknowledge that what made Fidonet was the advent of Binkleyterm,
Squishmail, and Maximus. There followed a number of "easier" and
"slicker" programmes, but these pioneers of Fidonet Messaging
Technology are what gave us this marvelous little network we have
today. Well, now, I suggest, if Fidonet is to "meet the challenge of
the Internet," (gag! puke!) it's time somebody developed just one
more piece we can add to the suite.

I read with great interest the anonymous letter from a sysop about
the need for compatibility of netmail with internet email.
This could be the thing which would undoubtedly save Fidonet from
the (some feel) imminent death by internet. Personally, I feel that
there are many things that Fido does better - Fidoechoes are far
superior to Usenet newsgroups or mailing lists, for instance. In
friendliness, ease of use, and just plain inexpense. Access to
Fidoechoes doesn't cost the $15 to $30 per month that a user has to
pay to access the internet and its newsgroups.

But it is a serious fact that email and netmail have to merge
somehow. In the early days of snailmail, it quickly became apparent
that more than one non-interconnected mail service just didn't cut it
- that's why governments stepped in.

In the days of the Fidonet/Internet mailgate(s), it was a little
better, but this was awkward and little used. Much better would be
for each Fidonet node itself to be gated to the internet.

"Whoa!," you say? Radical? Not really. A mild melding of the
two systems in this way could well mean the saving of Fidonet, by the
introduction of a new, super-powerful service we could call Fidonet
II - Son of Fidonet.

If your node had an internet account, here's what could be
accomplished:

1) You could set up to up and down your mail packets each
day by ftp'ing your hub. Well, actually, the ftp site which
your net would have to have set up for the purpose, as many
have as we speak. End of LD polling. End of PConnect.

2) If the software existed, why not also have your node
"poll" your ISP and drop off/pick up all your users email
a number of times per day? Hourly would be fine, or, for
outbound, even Continuous Mail - when a user drops off email,
as soon as s/he drops carrier, your bbs, with its fancy new
as-yet-to-be-developed software, dials your isp and exchanges
email packets. Your tosser then tosses any incoming email
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 10 4 Aug 1997

into your netmail area, addressed to the right persons, of
course, and Bob's yer uncle!

This kind of setup could be accomplished, if the software existed,
that is, with single-line systems, for no more than the price of the
ISP account. And most sysops already have one of those anyway. If
you don't, there should be enough time left over for you to play in
the web and stuff as a bonus.

What would be the advantage of Fido thus sullying its pure-hobbyist
hands with such a system? Well, first of all, it would allow us to
offer a much-needed service to a number of prospective users - that of
inexpensive email. Email, after all, is what most users of the
internet use most. Once the thrill of webbing and ftping has worn
off, email remains as without doubt the most useful aspect of the net
for the average person.

Many people with computers, who are currently IN or Fido unconnected
would like to have email, but are balking at paying $15.00/mo and up
for the service. Some small "off-shoot" providers are already
offering up email-only accounts for $5.00/mo, and these are going
over well. As a local computer consultant, I have had lots of people
tell me, "I can buy lots of stamps for $15.00 a month." But I know
that if I could offer them email service for a more nominal fee
they'd jump on it. And your local friendly Fidonet bbs could be the
place from which to make this offer.

All we need is the software. Something which would allow the user
to post and read email in a message area (such as Netmail) and would
transparently ship it off and bring in the incoming through an
invisible (to the user) isp. We would of course charge the nominal
fee for this service. This would be a departure from the laudable no-
charge aspect of Fidonet - one of which we are most of us justly
proud, but would be necessary to offset the cost of the ISP. But
the rest of Fidonet's many benefits would still be offered for no
charge to users of the email portion of the node or not.

This, I believe, is the gimmick which would save Fidonet.

If the software only existed. Anybody care enough to write it?

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/snwvlly/ :Users Say 30%More Gas Mileage!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Pozar <[email protected]>
Subject: Calif Senate Pub Rcds Task Force about to trash equal
access!!! (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:14:15 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: [email protected]

Calif Senate Public Records Task Force about to trash equal access!!!
by Tim Pozar [email protected]

The following is a missive from Jim Warren. Jim has lead the
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 11 4 Aug 1997

crusade to get public records out to the public for some years now.
(What a concept...) He has and is advisor to a number of committees
crafting legislation for low-cost or free distribution via electronic
media, primarily computer networks.

The message below alerts us to the fact that the Executive branch
of the State of California wants to charge big bucks for distribution
by any means of public records by anyone other than 503c corps or
news folks. This means if you run a BBS that charges for access
and you distribute this material you could end up being charge some
hefty amounts. Please make your voice heard that you want to see
State and Federal public records available for anyone for low cost
or free.

Thanks...
Tim Pozar
--

Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:47:18 -0800
From: Jim Warren <[email protected]>
Subject: Calif Senate Pub Rcds Task Force about to trash equal
access!!!

[TIME-SENSITIVE! Please repost and recirculate widely! NOW!]

California guv'ment insider hustlers are about to SCREW modern public
records access! On August 7th (surprise! -- exactly while the most
number of citizens are on vacation).

My apologies for the length of the following, but it is the verbatim
*KEY* proposal for final adoption by the California Senate Task Force
on Electronic Access to Public Records, to be recommended for
inclusion in Senate Bill 74 (by the *former* open-govt advocate, Sen.
Quentin Kopp [I-San Francisco].

It will radically revise the equal-access and low-cost principles of
the state's CPRA - California Public Records Act -- that have been in
place for decades.

The Task Force has been dominated by public-agency bureaucrats who
zealously demand the freedom to charge MUCH MORE than the "direct
cost of duplication," that has been the limit on public-records
copying fees for decades!

And this would totally demolish the equally long-standing principle
that *access* (as opposed to presumed-paper copies) would be free, in
the case of remote, online access to already-computerized public
records!

IF ENACTED, EVERY wee-profit BBS and ISP THAT MIGHT OTHERWISE PROVIDE
PUBLIC ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS ALREADY-COMPUTERIZED AT TAX-PAYER
EXPENSE, WOULD HAVE TO PAY RADICALLY-INCREASED COSTS TO THE AGENCY
PROVIDING THE RECORDS.

THIS WILL HAVE A *MONUMENTALLY* CHILLING EFFECT ON MODERN/ONLINE
PUBLIC ACCESS!
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 12 4 Aug 1997

Instead of the long-standing principle of charging *only* direct
copying costs -- now that copying computer records would often cost
less than the cost of accounting for the pennies it costs to make the
copy --*now*, powerful bureaucrats who can't find enough money to
spend want to throw the door wide open, collecting *all* the costs
for *all* of, "actual cost of providing the record, which may include
the costs of search, retrieval, review, segregation, and
duplication."

There is no prohibition against including in those "actual costs,"
things such as prorated staff retirement benefits, janitorial
services, building and equipment depreciation, etc. -- as has already
been repeatedly *urged* by some bureaucrats.

"For profit" researchers and writers -- that is, those expecting to
be *paid* <gasp!> for their independent or free-lance efforts, would
be forced to pay the same massively-increased costs.

However, the politically powerful California Newspaper Publishers
Association has had included an exemption for themselves and anyone
working for a "a news gathering organization." [Sec. 1.(1)b., below]

If you care about *equal* and *duplication-cost-only* access to
*modern* [computerized] public records in Californica <sic!>, SPEAK
UP *RIGHT* NOW!

* *Especially*, call and write the Editorial-Page Editors of your
local newspapers. Pronto!

* Call and write your elected so-called state AND city and county
"representatives" -- and ask them to clearly state their position!

(Well-paid lobbyists for the Calif cities [League of California
Cities] and counties [California State Association of Counties] have
been the most ardent, insistent and zealous -- and effective --
opponents of free pub rcds access and dup-cost-only pub rcds copies.
It is the LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WHO ARE MOST OPPOSED to equal copying-
cost-only public access! Increasingly! All of this decade!)

(Interestingly, Silicon Valley's Santa Clara County has LED the fight
for higher fees and monopoly sales of public records for much of this
decade!)

* And let the members of the Senate Electronic Records Task Force),
below (only *some* of whom are online, know your position -- for what
little good that may do. (Hey!, they want to make more money from
their information monopolies!)

--fed-up-jim

[Protesting its bias, I resigned from this Task Force, some months
ago.]
Jim Warren, activist-in-burnout & Contributing Editor (MicroTimes)
[email protected]; 345 Swett Rd, Woodside CA 94062; 415-851-7075

[self-inflating puff: Hugh Hefner First-Amendment Award, Playboy
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 13 4 Aug 1997

Foundation; James Madison Freedom-of-Information Award, Soc. of Prof.
Journalists-Nor.Cal.; Electronic Frontier Foundation Pioneer Award
(in its first year, 1992); founded InfoWorld magazine; the
Computers, Freedom & Privacy confs; blah blah blah]

===

[Kopp aide Teri Burns has run the Senate Task Force since its
creation, last year; Kopp never appeared. Also, don't blame me for
the formatting and line-overruns, below. I tried to explain email
formatting to them for months! --jim]

Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:23:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Teri Burns <[email protected]>
Subject: 1 Last E-records Task Force Meeting

I'd like to have 1 last meeting to review these 2 drafts (#3 & 4) for
possible amendments to SB 74.

Please join us in the CNPA conference room on Thursday, August 7th at
9:30am. (1225 8th street, Suite 260, Sacramento, for those who've
forgotten). We will adjourn in time for lunch.

If there is support for either of these drafts or some revised
version, we will move them forward as amendments. If not, we will
simply make available the summary document from our prior meeting
which indicates areas of consensus and controversy surrounding this
issue. This will be our final meeting. If you cannot come, please
provide written comments.

There is no version which includes the additional surcharge on
commercial users as we discussed at our last meeting because the
Legislative Counsel opinion suggests it will likely be viewed as a
tax. I believe we determined previously not to pursue that option if
such were the case.

Thanks to all who have participated in this lengthy process. Please
advise me at [email protected] or (916) 324-6928 if you will be
attending on 8/7.

Thanks.

Teri

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-description: 3rd revise task force draft

DRAFT #3 7/97

Amendments to SB 74

1. On page 6, line 29 after the word "so.", add:

Agencies shall provide a copy of an electronic record in the format
requested, unless, in light of surrounding circumstances, it is not
reasonable to do so, provided that the requested format is one which
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 14 4 Aug 1997

has been used by the agency to create copies for its own use or for
provision to other agencies. Electronic copies of records shall be
made promptly available upon payment of fees as follows:

(1) Except when the records are requested for a commercial
purpose, electronic copies of records shall be made available upon
payment of fees representing the direct cost of duplication or a
statutory fee. For purposes of this section, "commercial purpose"
means any use that furthers the commercial, trade, or profit
interests of the requester or person on whose behalf the request is
made. Commercial purpose does not include any of the following:

a. A request made by a 501 (c) (?) nonprofit corporation, so
long as the information requested is not used for any purpose
in which the corporation would be required to pay income tax
under state or federal law.

b. a request made by a person who, through contract or
employment, is a publisher, editor or reporter with a news
gathering organization and makes the request in that capacity
for a news gathering purpose.

(2) For requests in which the information is to be used for
any commercial purpose, the records shall be made available upon
payment of the actual cost of providing the record, which may include
the costs of search, retrieval, review, segregation, and duplication.
All funds collected by an agency shall be used by the agency
exclusively for the purposes described in section 6253.1 and for no
other purpose. Except as authorized by this section, no other fees
may be charged for copies of records.

Nothing in this section pertaining to information maintained in
electronic form expands, modifies or limits any requirement,
exemption, or other provision contained elsewhere in this chapter.

2. On page 6, line 29, before the word, "Each", add:

"(c)"

and reletter the rest of the section.

3. On page 7, line 31, delete:

"(a) Computerized data shall be provided in a form to be determined
by the agency."

4. On page 7, line 33, delete:

"(b)"

-
____________________________________________________________________

CORE PARAGRAPH FOR STATEMENT OF INTENT LETTER (to be signed by
interested parties and filed with the Senate Journal):

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 15 4 Aug 1997

In interpreting whether disclosure of a copy of a record in an
electronic format is reasonable under surrounding circumstances, we
are mindful of the dictionary definitions of the term "reasonable."
These definitions consistently indicate that the term reasonable means
moderate, inexpensive, fair, suitable under the circumstances, and not
excessive. Thus, if disclosure of a copy of a record in electronic
form is consistent with these concepts, the agency would be expected
to make disclosure in that form.

Some examples of circumstances in which it would not be reasonable to
require compliance with the general rule would include the following
situations:

* Significant reprogramming or the creation of new software
would be necessary to fulfill the request; and

* The task of redacting or segregating exempt from disclosable
material would be unduly burdensome.

Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-description: 4th revise task force draft

DRAFT #4 7/97 without expanded charge

Amendments to SB 74

1. On page 6, line 29 after the word "so.", add:

Agencies shall provide a copy of an electronic record in the format
requested, unless, in light of surrounding circumstances, it is not
reasonable to do so, provided that the requested format is one which
has been used by the agency to create copies for its own use or for
provision to other agencies. Electronic copies of records shall be
made promptly available upon payment of fees representing the direct
cost of duplication or a statutory fee.

Nothing in this section pertaining to information maintained in
electronic form expands, modifies or limits any requirement,
exemption, or other provision contained elsewhere in this chapter.

2. On page 7, line 31, delete:

"(a) Computerized data shall be provided in a form to be determined
by the agency."

3. On page 7, line 33, delete:

"(b)"
______________________________________________________________________

CORE PARAGRAPH FOR STATEMENT OF INTENT LETTER (to be signed by
interested parties and filed with the Senate Journal):

In interpreting whether disclosure of a copy of a record in an
electronic format is reasonable under surrounding circumstances, we
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 16 4 Aug 1997

are mindful of the dictionary definitions of the term "reasonable."
These definitions consistently indicate that the term reasonable means
moderate, inexpensive, fair, suitable under the circumstances, and not
excessive. Thus, if disclosure of a copy of a record in electronic
form is consistent with these concepts, the agency would be expected
to make disclosure in that form.

Some examples of circumstances in which it would not be reasonable to
require compliance with the general rule would include the following
situations:

* Significant reprogramming or the creation of new software
would be necessary to fulfill the request; and

* The task of redacting or segregating exempt from disclosable
material would be unduly burdensome.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 17 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
GETTING TECHNICAL
=================================================================

A response to lee Kindness's Counter proposal InetTM flags
by Steve Woodmore, 2:440/410, 2:2/200 Z2EC

"Internet as a transport mechanism for fidonet
A proposal for Nodelist flags"

LK> SW> by Steve Woodmore, 2:440/410 (2:2/200 ZEC/2)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LK>Pointless flag waving by the power-hungry Z2EC, Steve what
LK>relevance has that to a technical specification? You are
LK>2:440/410, nothing more, nothing less. Anyway, let's move away
LK>from this pointless hohee and onto something more
LK>constructive...

No!, lets just stay here for a minute.

It seems you fail to understand What the ?EC chain is, and what their
Perceived (by you) power is.

Perhaps you would care to explain to everyone, EXACTLY what Power A
ZEC actually has?

Everything I do, I do for the good of fidonet, I have spent thousands
of pounds of my own money on this hobby, I have asked for nothing in
return except for one thing, that the nodelist stops shrinking and we
Find ways to encourage people back into fidonet.

The Internet is with us now, we cannot avoid it.

So with this in mind I sat down and tried to find a way to depart
information to nodes as to how they can get connected to fidonet
through the Internet.

I am a "doer" not a "talker", in other words if I see something that I
think needs doing, i will try and do it, and not just sit Around
flapping my lips and trying to insult everyone that attempts anything.

I wrote my proposal, and i didn't expect it to be accepted "Ad-Hoc"
for one minute, however it did do what i expected, its galvanised
people into thinking about it, talking about it, and coming up with
ways to implement it.

The rest of your response was fine, it was well thought out and
presented and has lots of merit.

However your petty insults at the beginning are indicative of every
thing that is wrong in fidonet today, you just couldn't write
something constructive could you?, you just had to have your little
dig, didn't you?

Next time you respond to someone who is trying to improve the network
for all of us, step out from behind your petty little ego, and think
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 18 4 Aug 1997

of the reasons as to why people do things.

Power???, don't make me laugh, go and read the relevant policies
In force for our Zone again, and this time understand them.

---
E-mail : [email protected]
http://www.proteus.demon.co.uk

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 19 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
NET HUMOR
=================================================================

From: "Mike Riddle" <[email protected]>
To: "Baker, Christopher" <[email protected] (Christopher Baker)>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 07:29:17 -0600
Reply-To: "Mike Riddle" <[email protected]>
Subject: Fwd: Geek Theology

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================

Geek Theology

Author Unknown

In the beginning, God created the bit. And the bit was a zero.

On the first day, he toggled the 0 to 1, and the Universe was.
(In those days, bootstrap loaders were simple, and "active low"
signals didn't yet exist.)

On the second day, God's boss wanted a demo, and tried to read the
bit. This being volatile memory, the bit reverted to a 0. And the
universe wasn't. God learned the importance of backups and memory
refresh, and spent the rest of the day (and his first all-nighter)
reinstalling the universe.

On the third day, the bit cried "Oh, Lord! If you exist, give me a
sign!" And God created rev 2.0 of the bit, even better than the
original prototype. Those in Universe Marketing immediately realized
that "new and improved" wouldn't do justice to such a grand and
glorious creation. And so it was dubbed the Most Significant Bit.
Many bits followed, but only one was so honored.

On the fourth day, God created a simple ALU with 'add' and 'logical
shift' instructions. And the original bit discovered that -- by
performing a single shift instruction -- it could become the Most
Significant Bit. And God realized the importance of computer security.

On the fifth day, God created the first mid-life kicker, rev 2.0 of
the ALU, with wonderful features, and said "Forget that add and shift
stuff. Go forth and multiply." And God saw that it was good.

On the sixth day, God got a bit overconfident, and invented pipelines,
register hazards, optimizing compilers, crosstalk, restartable
instructions, microinterrupts, race conditions, and propagation
delays. Historians have used this to convincingly argue that the sixth
day must have been a Monday.

On the seventh day, an engineering change introduced Windows into the
Universe, and it hasn't worked right since.

===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 20 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
ADVERTISE YOUR FREE SERVICE/EVENT
=================================================================

Emanuel Edwards
1:348/963
[email protected]

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO ALL SYSOPS!!!!!!

Hello all Sysops and Co_Sysops:

If you want to get lots of User on your BBS I suggest you request the
WRESTLING_CHAT on your BBS:

On the wrestling_chat you can get all the Latest News, great wrestling
scoops and great wrestling advertisement. Plus there are professional
wrestlers reading the messages and posting messages on the echo. The
echo tag is called WRESTLING_CHAT.

Sysops around the world is requesting that echo daily. Please request
the Wrestling_chat today and don't get left behind from some great
excitement and entertainment on the WRESTLING_CHAT. Mark my wordS
"YOU WON'T REGRET IT"

Regards

Emanuel Moderator
Barry Laws Jr Co_Moderator

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 21 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
NOTICES
=================================================================

Future History

25 Sep 1997
Happy Birthday, Joaquim H. Homrighausen

13 Oct 1997
Thanksgiving Day, Canada.

1 Dec 1997
World AIDS Day.

10 Dec 1997
Nobel Day, Sweden.

12 Jan 1998
HAL 9000 is one year old today.

30 Apr 1998
Queens Day, Holland.

22 May 1998
Expo '98 World Exposition in Lisbon (Portugal) opens.

1 Dec 1998
Fifteenth Anniversary of release of Fido version 1 by
Tom Jennings.

31 Dec 1999
Hogmanay, Scotland. The New Year that can't be missed.

1 Jan 2000
The 20th Century, C.E., is still taking place thru 31 Dec.

15 Sep 2000
Sydney (Australia) Summer Olympiad opens.

1 Jan 2001
This is the actual start of the new millennium, C.E.

-- If YOU have something which you would like to see in this
Future History, please send a note to the FidoNews Editor.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 22 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING
=================================================================

Latest Greatest Software Versions
by Peter E. Popovich, 1:363/264

Deadsville over here. A total of two updates in the last three weeks.

-=- Snip -=-

Submission form for the Latest Greatest Software Versions column

OS Platform :
Software package name :
Version :
Function(s) - BBS, Mailer, Tosser, etc. :
Freeware / Shareware / Commercial? :
Author / Support staff contact name :
Author / Support staff contact node :
Magic name (at the above-listed node) :

Please include a sentence describing what the package does.

Please send updates and suggestions to: Peter Popovich, 1:363/264

-=- Snip -=-

MS-DOS:
Program Name Version F C Contact Name Node Magic Name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Act-Up 4.6 G D Chris Gunn 1:15/55 ACT-UP
ALLFIX 4.40 T S Harald Harms 2:281/415 ALLFIX
Announcer 1.11 O S Peter Karlsson 2:206/221 ANNOUNCE
BGFAX 1.60 O S B.J. Guillot 1:106/400 BGFAX
Binkley Docs 2.60 M F Bob Juge 1:1/102 BDOC_260.ZIP
BinkleyTerm 2.60 M F Bob Juge 1:1/102 BDOS_260.ZIP
BinkleyTerm-XE XR4 M F Thomas Waldmann 2:2474/400 BTXE_DOS
CFRoute 0.92 O G C. Fernandez Sanz 2:341/70 CFR
CheckPnt 1.0a O G Michiel vd Vlist 2:500/9 CHECKPNT
FastEcho 1.45a T S Tobias Burchhardt 2:2448/400 FASTECHO
FastEcho/16 1.45a T S Tobias Burchhardt 2:2448/400 FE16
FastLst 1.36 N S Alberto Pasquale 2:332/504 FASTLSTD
FidoBBS (tm) 12u B S Ray Brown 1:1/117 FILES
FrontDoor 2.12 M S JoHo 2:201/330 FD
FrontDoor 2.20c M C JoHo 2:201/330 FDINFO
GEcho 1.00 T S Bob Seaborn 1:140/12 GECHO
GEcho/Plus 1.11 T C Bob Seaborn 1:140/12 GECHO
GEcho/Pro 1.20 T C Bob Seaborn 1:140/12 GECHO
GIGO 07-14-96 G S Jason Fesler 1:1/141 INFO
GoldED 2.50 O S Len Morgan 1:203/730 GED
GoldED/386 2.50 O S Len Morgan 1:203/730 GEX
GoldED Docs 2.50 O S Len Morgan 1:203/730 GEM
GoldNODE 2.50 O S Len Morgan 1:203/730 GEN
Imail 1.75 T S Michael McCabe 1:1/121 IMAIL
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 23 4 Aug 1997

ImCrypt 1.04 O G Michiel vd Vlist 2:500/9 IMCRYPT
InfoMail/86 1.21 O F Damian Walker 2:2502/666 INFOMAIL
InfoMail/386 1.21 O F Damian Walker 2:2502/666 INFO386
InterEcho 1.19 T C Peter Stewart 1:369/35 IEDEMO
InterMail 2.29k M C Peter Stewart 1:369/35 IMDEMO
InterPCB 1.52 O S Peter Stewart 1:369/35 INTERPCB
IPNet 1.11 O S Michele Stewart 1:369/21 IPNET
JD's CBV 1.4 O S John Dailey 1:363/277 CBV
Jelly-Bean 1.01 T S Rowan Crowe 3:635/727 JELLY
Jelly-Bean/386 1.01 T S Rowan Crowe 3:635/727 JELLY386
JMail-Hudson 2.81 T S Jason Steck 1:285/424 JMAIL-H
JMail-Goldbase 2.81 T S Jason Steck 1:285/424 JMAIL-G
MakePl 1.9 N G Michiel vd Vlist 2:500/9 MAKEPL
Marena 1.1 beta O G Michiel vd Vlist 2:500/9 MARENA
Maximus 3.01 B P Tech 1:249/106 MAX
Max User Ed. 0.18 O F Larry Cooke 1:300/53 MUE
McMail 1.0 M S Michael McCabe 1:1/148 MCMAIL
MDNDP 1.18 N S Bill Doyle 1:388/7 MDNDP
Msged 4.10 O G Andrew Clarke 3:635/728 MSGED41D.ZIP
Msged/386 4.10 O G Andrew Clarke 3:635/728 MSGED41X.ZIP
NEF 2.38 O S Alberto Pasquale 2:332/504 NEFD
Opus CBCS 1.79 B P Christopher Baker 1:374/14 OPUS
O/T-Track 2.66 O S Peter Hampf 2:241/1090 OT
PcMerge 2.8 N G Michiel vd Vlist 2:500/9 PCMERGE
PlatinumXpress 1.3 M C Gary Petersen 1:290/111 PX13TD.ZIP
QuickBBS 2.81 B S Ben Schollnick 1:2613/477 QUICKBBS
RAR 2.01 C S Ron Dwight 2:220/22 RAR
RemoteAccess 2.50 B S Mark Lewis 1:3634/12 RA
Silver Xpress
Door 5.4 O S Gary Petersen 1:290/111 FILES
Reader 4.4 O S Gary Petersen 1:290/111 SXR44.ZIP
Spitfire 3.51 B S Mike Weaver 1:3670/3 SPITFIRE
Squish 1.11 T P Tech 1:249/106 SQUISH
StealTag UK 1.c... O F Fred Schenk 2:284/412 STEAL_UK
StealTag NL 1.c... O F Fred Schenk 2:284/412 STEAL_NL
T-Mail 2.600 M S Ron Dwight 2:220/22 TMAIL
Telegard 3.02 B F Tim Strike 1:259/423 TELEGARD
Terminate 4.00 O S Bo Bendtsen 2:254/261 TERMINATE
Tobruk 0.33 T G Paul Edwards 3:711/934 TOBRUK
TosScan 1.01 T C JoHo 2:201/330 TSINFO
TransNet 1.00 G S Marc S. Ressl 4:904/72 TN100ALL.ZIP
TriBBS 11.0 B S Gary Price 1:3607/26 TRIBBS
TriDog 11.0 T F Gary Price 1:3607/26 TRIDOG
TriToss 11.0 T S Gary Price 1:3607/26 TRITOSS
WaterGate 0.93 G S Robert Szarka 1:320/42 WTRGATE
WWIV 4.24a B S Craig Dooley 1:376/126 WWIV
WWIVTOSS 1.36 T S Craig Dooley 1:376/126 WWIVTOSS
xMail 2.00 T S Thorsten Franke 2:2448/53 XMAIL
XRobot 3.01 O S JoHo 2:201/330 XRDOS

OS/2:
Program Name Version F C Contact Name Node Magic Name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ALLFIX/2 1.10 T S Harald Harms 2:281/415 AFIXOS2
BGFAX 1.60 O S B.J. Guillot 1:106/400 BGFAX
Binkley Docs 2.60 M F Bob Juge 1:1/102 BDOC_260.ZIP
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 24 4 Aug 1997

BinkleyTerm 2.60 M F Bob Juge 1:1/102 BOS2_260.ZIP
BinkleyTerm-XE XR4 M F Thomas Waldmann 2:2474/400 BTXE_OS2
CFRoute 0.92 O G C. Fernandez Sanz 2:341/70 CFR
FastEcho 1.45a T S Tobias Burchhardt 2:2448/400 FE2
FastLst 1.36 N S Alberto Pasquale 2:332/504 FASTLST
FleetStreet 1.20 O S Michael Hohner 2:2490/2520 FLEET
GEcho/Pro 1.20 T C Bob Seaborn 1:140/12 GECHO
GIGO 07-14-96 G S Jason Fesler 1:1/141 INFO
GoldED 2.50 O S Len Morgan 1:203/730 GEO
GoldED Docs 2.50 O S Len Morgan 1:203/730 GEM
GoldNODE 2.50 O S Len Morgan 1:203/730 GEN
ImCrypt 1.04 O G Michiel vd Vlist 2:500/9 IMCRYPT
Maximus 3.01 B P Tech 1:249/106 MAXP
Max User Ed. 0.18 O F Larry Cooke 1:300/53 MUEP
Msged/2 4.10 O G Andrew Clarke 3:635/728 MSGED41O.ZIP
NEF 2.38 O S Alberto Pasquale 2:332/504 NEF
PcMerge 2.3 N G Michiel vd Vlist 2:500/9 PCMERGE
RAR 2.01 C S Ron Dwight 2:220/22 RAR2
Squish 1.11 T P Tech 1:249/106 SQUISHP
T-Mail 2.600 M S Ron Dwight 2:220/22 TMAIL2
Tobruk 0.33 T G Paul Edwards 3:711/934 TOBRUK
WaterGate 0.93 G S Robert Szarka 1:320/42 WTRGATE
XRobot 3.01 O S JoHo 2:201/330 XROS2

Windows (16-bit apps):
Program Name Version F C Contact Name Node Magic Name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BeeMail 1.0 M C Andrius Cepaitis 2:470/1 BEEMAIL
FrontDoor APX 1.12 P S Mats Wallin 2:201/329 FDAPXW

Windows (32-bit apps):
Program Name Version F C Contact Name Node Magic Name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Argus 95 2.62 M S Max Masyutin 2:469/77 ARGUS95
Argus NT 2.62 M S Max Masyutin 2:469/77 ARGUSNT
Argus NT/IP 2.62 M S Max Masyutin 2:469/77 ARGUSIP
BeeMail 1.0 M C Andrius Cepaitis 2:470/1 BEEMAIL
Binkley Docs 2.60 M F Bob Juge 1:1/102 BDOC_260.ZIP
BinkleyTerm 2.60 M F Bob Juge 1:1/102 BW32_260.ZIP
CFRoute 0.92 O G C. Fernandez Sanz 2:341/70 CFR
FastLst 1.36 N S Alberto Pasquale 2:332/504 FASTLSTW
GoldED 2.50 O S Len Morgan 1:203/730 GEO
GoldED Docs 2.50 O S Len Morgan 1:203/730 GEM
Maximus 3.01 B P Tech 1:249/106 MAXN
Msged/NT 4.10 O G Andrew Clarke 3:635/728 MSGED41W.ZIP
NEF 2.38 O S Alberto Pasquale 2:332/504 NEFW
PlatinumXpress 2.00 M C Gary Petersen 1:290/111 PXW-INFO
T-Mail 2.600 M S Ron Dwight 2:220/22 TMAILNT
WinFOSSIL/95 1.12 r4 F S Bryan Woodruff 1:343/294 WNFOSSIL.ZIP
WinFOSSIL/NT 1.0 beta F S Bryan Woodruff 1:343/294 NTFOSSIL.ZIP

Unix:
Program Name Version F C Contact Name Node Magic Name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ifmail 2.10 M G Eugene Crosser 2:293/2219 IFMAIL
ifmail-tx ...tx8.4 M G Pablo Saratxaga 2:293/2219 IFMAILTX
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 25 4 Aug 1997

ifmail-tx.rpm ...tx8.4 M G Pablo Saratxaga 2:293/2219 IFMAILTX.RPM
Msged 4.00 O G Paul Edwards 3:711/934 MSGED
Tobruk 0.33 T G Paul Edwards 3:711/934 TOBRUK

Amiga:
Program Name Version F C Contact Name Node Magic Name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrashMail 1.23 T X Fredrik Bennison 2:205/324 CRASHMAIL
CrashTick 1.1 O F Fredrik Bennison 2:205/324 CRASHTICK
DLG Pro BBOS 1.15 B C Holly Sullivan 1:202/720 DLGDEMO
GMS 1.1.85 M S Mirko Viviani 2:331/213 GMS
Msged 4.00 O G Paul Edwards 3:711/934 MSGED
Tobruk 0.33 T G Paul Edwards 3:711/934 TOBRUK

TrapDoor 1.86.b2 M S Maximilian Hantsch
2:310/6 TRAPDOOR
TrapDoor 1.86.b2 M S Maximilian Hantsch
2:310/6 TRAPBETA
TrapToss 1.50 T S Rene Hexel 2:310/6 TRAPTOSS

Atari:
Program Name Version F C Contact Name Node Magic Name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ApplyList 1.00 N F Daniel Roesen 2:2432/1101 APLST100.LZH
BinkleyTerm/ST 3.18pl2 M F Bill Scull 1:363/112 BINKLEY
BTNC 2.00 N G Daniel Roesen 2:2432/1101 BTNC
JetMail 0.99beta T S Joerg Spilker 2:2432/1101 JETMAIL
Semper 0.80beta M S Jan Kriesten 2:2490/1624 SMP-BETA

Function: B-BBS, P-Point, M-Mailer, N-Nodelist, G-Gateway, T-Tosser,
C-Compression, F-Fossil, O-Other. Note: Multifunction will
be listed by the first match.

Cost: P-Free for personal use, F-Freeware, S-Shareware, C-Commercial,
X-Crippleware, D-Demoware, G-Free w/ Source

Please send updates and suggestions to: Peter Popovich, 1:363/264

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 26 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
FIDONEWS PUBLIC-KEY
=================================================================

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it won't process under PGP as a valid public-key]

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-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

File-request FNEWSKEY from 1:1/23 [1:18/14] or download it from the
Rights On! BBS at 1-904-409-7040 anytime except 0100-0130 ET and Zone
1 ZMH at 1200-9600+ HST/V32B. The FidoNews key is also available on
the FidoNews homepage listed in the Masthead information.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 27 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
FIDONET BY INTERNET
=================================================================

This is a list of all FidoNet-related sites reported to the Editor as
of this appearance.

============

FidoNet:

Homepage http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews http://ddi.digital.net/~cbaker84/fidonews.html
HTML FNews http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6894/
WWW sources http://www.scms.rgu.ac.uk/students/cs_yr94/lk/fido.html
FTSC page http://www2.blaze.net.au/ftsc.html
Echomail http://www.portal.ca/~awalker/index.html
WebRing http://ddi.digital.net/~cbaker84/fnetring.html

============

Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org

Region 10: http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html

Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/

Region 13: http://www.smalltalkband.com/st01000.htm

Region 14: http://www.netins.net/showcase/fidonet/

Region 15: [disappeared?]

Region 16: http://www.tiac.net/users/satins/region16.htm

Region 17: http://www.portal.ca/~awalker/region17.htm
REC17: http://www.westsound.com/ptmudge/

Region 18: http://www.citicom.com/fido.html

Region 19: http://www.compconn.net

============

Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org

ZEC2: http://www.proteus.demon.co.uk/zec.htm
Zone 2 Elist: http://www.fbone.ch/z2_elist/

Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)

Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (in German)

Region 25:
http://members.aol.com/Net254/

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 28 4 Aug 1997

Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm

Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (in French)

Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (in Swiss)

Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (in Italian)

Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (in Spanish)
REC34: http://pobox.com/~chr

Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/

Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (in Greek and English)

Region 48: http://www.fidonet.org.pl

============

Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org

============

Zone 4: (not yet listed)

Region 90:
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (in Spanish)

============

Zone 5: (not yet listed)

============

Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org

Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html (China)

============

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 29 4 Aug 1997

=================================================================
FIDONEWS INFORMATION
=================================================================

------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION -------

Editor: Christopher Baker

Editors Emeritii: Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell,
Donald Tees

"FidoNews Editor"
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS 1-904-409-7040, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(ds)

more addresses:
Christopher Baker -- 1:18/14, [email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

(Postal Service mailing address)
FidoNews Editor
P.O. Box 471
Edgewater, FL 32132-0471
U.S.A.

voice: 1-904-409-3040 [1400-2100 ET only, please]
[1800-0100 UTC/GMT]

------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation
of individual articles contributed by their authors or their
authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation
does not diminish the rights of the authors. OPINIONS EXPRESSED in
these articles ARE THOSE OF THE AUTHORS and not necessarily those of
FidoNews.

Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright 1997 Christopher Baker. All rights reserved. Duplication
and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For
use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or
the Editor.

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews Editor via manual download or
file-request, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above postal
address. File-request FIDONEWS for the current Issue. File-request
FNEWS for the current month in one archive. Or file-request specific
back Issue filenames in distribution format [FNEWSEnn.ZIP] for a
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 30 4 Aug 1997

particular Issue. Monthly Volumes are available as FNWSmmmy.ZIP
where mmm = three letter month [JAN - DEC] and y = last digit of the
current year [7], i.e., FNWSFEB7.ZIP for all the Issues from Feb 97.

Annual volumes are available as FNEWSn.ZIP where n = the Volume number
1 - 14 for 1984 - 1997, respectively. Annual Volume archives range in
size from 48K to 1.4M.

INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via:

http://www.fidonet.org/fidonews.htm
ftp://ftp.fidonet.org/pub/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.aminet.org/pub/aminet/comm/fido/

*=*=*

You may obtain an email subscription to FidoNews by sending email to:

[email protected]

with a Subject line of: subscribe fnews-edist

and no message in the message body. To remove your name from the email
distribution use a Subject line of: unsubscribe fnews-edist with no
message to the same address above.

*=*=*

You can read the current FidoNews Issue in HTML format at:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6894/

STAR SOURCE for ALL Past Issues via FTP and file-request -
Available for FReq from 1:396/1 or by anonymous FTP from:

ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/

Each yearly archive also contains a listing of the Table-of-Contents
for that year's issues. The total set is currently about 11 Megs.

=*=*=*=

The current week's FidoNews and the FidoNews public-key are now also
available almost immediately after publication on the Editor's new
homepage on the World Wide Web at:

http://ddi.digital.net/~cbaker84/fidonews.html

There are also links there to jim barchuk's HTML FidoNews source and
to John Souvestre's FTP site for the archives. There is also an email
link for sending in an article as message text. Drop on over.

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

A PGP generated public-key is available for the FidoNews Editor from
FIDONEWS 14-31 Page 31 4 Aug 1997

1:1/23 [1:18/14] by file-request for FNEWSKEY or by download from
Rights On! BBS at 1-904-409-7040 as FIDONEWS.ASC in File Area 18. It
is also posted twice a month into the PKEY_DROP Echo available on the
Zone 1 Echomail Backbone.

*=*=*=*=*

SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews Editor, or file-requestable
from 1:1/23 [1:18/14] as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". ALL Zone Coordinators
also have copies of ARTSPEC.DOC. Please read it.

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA 94141,
and are used with permission.

"Disagreement is actually necessary,
or we'd all have to get in fights
or something to amuse ourselves
and create the requisite chaos."
-Tom Jennings

-30-

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