F I D O N E W S -- Vol.12 No.16 (17-Apr-1995)

F I D O N E W S -- Vol.12 No.16 (17-Apr-1995)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS |
| _ | +1-519-570-4176 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | Sheep affairs desk: |
| (_| /_) | Doc Logger 1:163/110 |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Rev. Richard Visage 1:163/409 |
| | | \ \\ | |
| | (*) | \ )) | Editors: |
| |__U__| / \// | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| _//|| _\ / | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MORE addresses: |
| |
| submissions=> [email protected] |
| Don -- [email protected] |
| Max -- [email protected] |
| Tim Pozar -- [email protected] |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================

1. Editorial..................................................... 2
2. Articles...................................................... 2
Subject: Control Freaks..................................... 2
Bellow if you must, but..................................... 3
The Neophyte's Guide to FIDO................................ 4
"SUMMERCON"................................................. 7
PETITION/STATEMENT:SAVE RAMONA.............................. 10
"Who Own's an echo"......................................... 12
The Court Jester Has No Clothes Either...................... 12
Subject: The ECROC Question................................. 13
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 14
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 2 17 Apr 1995

========================================================================
Editorial
========================================================================
How embarrassing. I drove home 200 miles to get the snooze
out, lay down on the couch for 10 minutes at 8 o'clock to rest
and think of an editorial, and woke up at 12:45. As a result,
the news is late for the first time in two years.

Sorry, folks ...
========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
From: The Terminator (1:2805/1)
To: Donald Tees (1:221/192)
Subject: Control Freaks

Here's a political cartoon for the next issue of FidoSnooze.

.------.. _------__--___.__.
/ \_ / ` ` \
/ \ |. \
/ \ \ |
/ .--._ .---. | \ |
| / -__- \ | ~-/--`-`-`-\ |
| | | | | \ |
|| || | | |
|| ,_ _. || Heh heh heh.. | | |
|| e e || Hey Brucie, | _-- | |
|| _ |_ || These people are _| =-. |.-. |
@| (o\_/o) |@ losers o|/o/ _. |
| _____ | / ~ \ |
\ ( /uuuuu\ ) / (/___@) ___~ |
\ `=====' / Heh huh |_===~~~.` |
\ -___- / Fer sur... _______.--~ |
| | John-Boy \________ |
/-_____-\ \ |
/ \ __/-___-- -__
/ \ / __\
/__| Truckstop |__\ -| Southern || |
| || BBS || | || Star || |
| || || | || || |
| || || | / | / /

FidoNews 12-16 Page: 3 17 Apr 1995

Bellow if you must, but...

Bellow if you must, but...
by guess who 2606/583

I read last weeks Fidonews with great interest to see
who was going to pontificate all these new theories.
If we all paid attention Mr. Murray had two pearls which
convinced me the world he lives in is different. No Mr.
Murray, no one "appoints" moderators. If your whole
"as you see it" is based on this. Well I hate to tip
over your canoe but moderators ain't appointed. If you
think so....who does the appointing ? Ending your
article you did have an interesting ditty. You would
be against any new Fidonet rule or policy restricting
the powers of moderators. How about starting at the
basics. Having a rule or policy which even mentioned
them !!!

Mr. Lemmer says moderators should cut links on a whim.
Then goes on to state a theory about rules. If a moderator
would have this almighty power...echos wouldn't need
no steenkin rules. Any system without checks and
balances is bad.

OK...read ECROC..it sets the balance..its voluntary..if
anyone has another version, by all means adopt it. After
all, it is YOUR areas.bbs.

ECHOMAIL ROUTING CODE v 1.05

1. Preface: This is a voluntary code which a router of echomail
may adopt to insure that echomail links, routing and procedures are
consistent.

Conferences are operated and routed for the benefit of the
participants. They are generally topic oriented and the topic is
an expansion of the AREA: tag. The routing of echomail is subject
to policy 4 of Fidonet as if the messages are NETMAIL. The AREA
tag does not change that.

2. Coordination: All coordination of traffic in a NET is under the
supervision of the NC. To fulfill these responsibilities he may
delegate all responsibilities except the resolution of disputes to
any node or group of nodes. They may function as conference
coordinators echomail coordinators or any title the NC determines
to assign.

3. Routing: Any node may agree with any other node to accept or
provide netmail messages, which are further identified by AREA
tags. If a node has more then one address in a routing file
(generically known as an areas.bbs file) then he is functioning in
the capacity of a router.

FidoNews 12-16 Page: 4 17 Apr 1995

4. Links: A router should realize that there can be many links
which develop in reliance on their voluntary effort. Likewise
there may be instances where a person requests that you should
modify your .bbs file to add or remove a link.

a. Adding a link: you can either comply with this or refer the
person to the NC of your net. Generally the criteria for adding
a link can include: economics, prevention of duplicate loops,
requests by nodes who are within a toll free call. Adding a link
is done at you sole discretion.

b. Deleting a link: If you are requested to delete a link, you
should ask that some explanation is given:

1. If the person is a conference moderator, look in the latest
issue of the ELIST available at 1/201. If the person is the
Elisted moderator (or alternate moderator), request the conference
rules, any messages that break them and at least proof that two
netmail warning were given.

2. If the person is OTHER then the Elisted Moderator or co-
moderator, refer them to your NC.

Quite often a request to cut a link is done in the heat of a strong
debate. You as a router serve to "time" the parties out for a
cooling off period. You are well within your right to refuse to
cut a link UNLESS the linked node has been excommunicated.

Since links are done by two party agreement and since there does
not exist a ratified echomail policy, this code should serve as a
balance until there is one.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Neophyte's Guide to FIDO
By Red E. Mailscan

Chapter One - Part Two
______________________

(continued from part one)

Most people would think that old Joe Starsee's denial of the
complaint would be enough to satisfy the complainer and put the
whole thing to rest.

..not quite.

Mr. Tran Bin Hmong has decided to take the offense upward
and onward as the immortal PeeFour dictates he must if he is to
achieve ultimate satisfaction. The escalation also serves a
second purpose...something as FIDO as scrambled message packets
that are three weeks late...the opportunity to stir up a little
crap and up the median sysop blood-pressure of the net as a
whole. Yes, even in his most communistic heart there lies
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 5 17 Apr 1995

dormant the very lifeblood of Fight-O-Net...........the
disgruntled sysop.

He hardly even realizes the common thread that bonds ALL
fidonet people together...the right to argue endlessly about
pointless subjects. Even in his culture, the mere attachment of
a modem to a phoneline with echos available has transformed him
into a whining, unhappy, stimulus-starved disgruntled
sysop.......and they say this echo stuff isn't great.

So, being the typical disgruntled (are any of us truly
gruntled sysops?) sysop, Mr. Hmong fires off his reply.....

Date April 22, 1995
From: Tran Bin Hmong (6:687/444)
To: Joe Starsee FIDOGAWD_LOCAL_CONTROL
Sub: Complaint against CAT_TORTURE echo and moderator

You message is unacceptable. We have no recourse but to file
with your superior officer to stop the terrible abuse to cats
being commited.

We beat you Yankee one time and we can do again. I file
complaint against you and Mr. Johnson and will go to highest
level to see justice is served. You will not escape law even in
computer network, you Americans are pig-dogs and I spit on your
ancestor's undershorts.

You will understand ferocity of oriental wrath when full
complaint is filed and you must cower before International
Coordinator to beg for mercy before you throw in prison, upstart
capitalist donkey butt-poo.

I hope to see message where you ask for my forgiveness, you
stupid cur-dog.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This is excellent. The complainer is now in net-nirvana as
he struts in rightous indignation. He is shitting a brick and
everyone is getting a whif of the stink. Major excellent.

Joe is now getting tired of the renewed conflict between the
Viets and Americans and is actually overjoyed to see the whole
thing pushed off on some guy stupid enough to take an office
higher than his in the net. Joe replies with a certain measure
of relief........

_______________________________________________________________________

Date April 29, 1995
From: Joe Starsee FIDOGAWD_LOCAL_CONTROL
To: Tran Bin Hmong (6:687/444)
Sub: Your message.......

FidoNews 12-16 Page: 6 17 Apr 1995

TBH> You message is unacceptable. We have no recourse but to
file with your

Look, maybe you should think of just writing Mike and
initiating some sort of dialogue that will settle this problem
you guys have.

TBH>superior officer to stop the terrible abuse to cats being commited.

I don't see where a cat is worth all of this trouble. I mean
they are just cats and they are not even your cats, for crying
out loud. Maybe you should just try to take some deep breaths,
Tran.

TBH>We beat you Yankee one time and we can do again. I file
complaint against
TBH>you and Mr. Johnson and will go to highest level to see
justice is served.

You won't get far with rhetoric like that, Tran.

TBH>will not escape law even in computer network, you Americans
are pig-dogs
TBH>and I spit on your ancestor's undershorts.

Tran, I have to tell you that such talk will cause a number
of the American sysops to want to take you to task. Chill out,
guy. We restored diplomatic relationships just last year...the
war is over.

TBH> You will understand ferocity of oriental wrath when full
complaint is
TBH>filed and you must cower before International Coordinator to
beg for mercy
TBH>before you throw in prison, upstart capitalist donkey butt-poo.
TBH>I hope to see message where you ask for my forgiveness, you stupid
TBH>cur-dog.

Well, I can at least say that I did try to get you to settle
down and deal with this situation. If you feel that going "over
my head" is what you want to do...then by all means, have at it.

Joe
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, the complainer and his complaints are now part of the
etherous void that we all know as (Twilight Zone sounds) the
Fidogawd's Inbound.

Here, it will be buried under stale old packets waiting to
be scrambled at random and sent out, re-addressed GMD messages
doing the dupe-loop shuffle, ancient and unused PWAD files for
Doom and other netmail from concerned Fidonetters that are also
being ignored. After a proper length of time, it will be deleted
by one of the 200 utilities the Fidogawd runs out of his batch
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 7 17 Apr 1995

file and all will be forgotten.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
End Chapter One

Next Chapter: CyberWeasels Rip My Flesh! (The Debate Areas)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"SUMMERCON"

Phrack Magazine and Computer Security Technologies proudly present:

The 1995 Summer Security Conference

SSSS U U M M M M EEEEE RRRR CCCC OOOO N N
S U U MM MM MM MM E R R C O O NN N
SSS U U M M M M M M M M EEE RRRR C O O N N N
S U U M M M M M M E R R C O O N NN
SSSS UUUU M M M M EEEEE R R CCCC OOOO N N

"SUMMERCON"

June 2-4 1995 @ the Downtown Clarion Hotel in Atlanta, Georgia

This is the official announcement and open invitation to the 1995
incarnation of Summercon. In the past, Summercon was an invite-only
hacker gathering held annually in St. Louis, Missouri. Starting
with this incarnation, Summercon is open to any and all interested
parties: Hackers, Phreaks, Pirates, Virus Writers, System
Administrators, Law Enforcement Officials, Neo-Hippies, Secret Agents,
Teachers, Disgruntled Employees, Telco Flunkies, Journalists,
New Yorkers, Programmers, Conspiracy Nuts, Musicians and Nudists.

LOCATION:

The Clarion Hotel is located in downtown Atlanta, 9 miles from
Hartsfield International Airport and just a few blocks from the
Peachtree Center MARTA Station.

Considering the exorbitant expenses involved with attending other
conferences of this type, Rooms at Summercon are reduced to

$65 per night for Single or Double Occupancy

The Clarion Hotel Downtown, Courtland at 70 Houston St., NE,
Atlanta, GA 30303
(404) 659-2660 or (800) 241-3828 (404) 524-5390 (fax)

No one likes to pay a hundred dollars a night. We don't expect you
to have to. Spend your money on room service, drinks in the hotel bar,
or on k-rad hacker t-shirts. Remember: Mention that you are attending
Summercon in order to receive the discount.
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 8 17 Apr 1995

DIRECTIONS

75/85 Southbound - Exit 97 (Courtland). Go 3 blocks south on Courtland
then turn left on Houston (John Wesley Dobbs Ave.)
20 East - Exit 75/85 North at International. Turn Left on Courtland at
Houston Ave. NE. (aka. John Wesley Dobbs Ave. NE.)
20 West - Exit 75/85 North at International. One block to Courtland
and right at Houston Ave. NE. (John Wesley Dobbs Ave. NE.)

Atlanta Airport Shuttle - The Express Bus that leaves from Atlanta's
International Airport will drop you off at many hotels in the downtown
area, including the Clarion. The shuttle should be no more than 12
dollars. Fares may be paid at the Airport Shuttle in the Ground
Transportation area of the Airport Terminal.

MARTA - The Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority (MARTA), is a
convenient and inexpensive way to negotiate most of the Atlanta area.
Take the MARTA train from the Airport to the Peach Tree Center Station.
Walk three blocks down Houston to the intersection of Houston and
Courtland. The MARTA fare will be roughly 2 dollars.

Taxis - The average cab fare from Atlanta's Airport to the downtown area
is roughly 30 dollars.

CONFERENCE INFO

It has always been our contention that cons are for socializing.
"Seekret Hacker InPh0" is never really discussed except in private
circles, so the only way anyone is going to get any is to meet new people
and take the initiative to start interesting conversations.

Because of this, the formal speaking portion of Summercon will be
held on one day, not two or three, leaving plenty of time for people
to explore the city, compare hacking techniques, or go trashing and
clubbing with their heretofore unseen online companions.

The "Conference" will be held on June 3rd from roughly 11:00 am until
6:00 pm with a 1 hour lunch break from 1:00 to 2:00.

NO VIDEO TAPING WILL BE ALLOWED IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM. Audio Taping
and still photography will be permitted.

CURRENT LIST OF SPEAKERS:

Robert Steele - Ex-Intelligence Agent, Founder and CEO of Open Source
Solutions (a private sector intelligence firm)

Topic: Hackers from the Intelligence Perspective

Winn Schwartau - Author of "Information Warfare" and "Terminal Compromise",
Publisher of Security Insider Report, and noted security
expert

Topic: Electromagnetic Weaponry
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 9 17 Apr 1995

Bob Stratton - Information Security Expert from one of America's largest
Internet service providers

Topic: The Future of TCP/IP Security

Eric Hughes - Cryptography Expert and founding member of the "Cypherpunks"

Topic: Cryptography, Banking, and Commerce

Annaliza Savage - London-based Director/Producer

Topic: Discussion of her documentary "Unauthorized Access"
(Followed by a public screening of the film)

Chris Goggans - Editor of Phrack Magazine and Summercon M.C.

Topic: introductions, incidentals and a topic which is sure
to culminate in an international incident.

(Other Speakers May Be Added - Interested parties may contact [email protected])

COSTS

Since other cons of this type have been charging from 25 to 40 dollars
entry fees, we are only charging 10 dollars. Yes, that's correct,
TEN (10) dollars in US currency. Money is far too scarce among the
hacker community to fleece everyone for money they will probably need
to eat with or pay for their hotel rooms.

WHAT TO DO IN ATLANTA:

To attempt to make everyone's stay in Atlanta more exciting, we are
contacting local establishments to arrange for special discounts and/or
price reductions for Summercon attendees. Information will be handed
out regarding these arrangements at the conference.

Atlanta is a happening town.

Touristy Stuff Party Time

The World of Coca-Cola Buckhead
Underground Atlanta The Gold Club
Georgia Dome (Baseball?) (Countless Other Clubs and Bars)
Six Flags

CONTACTING SUMMERCON SPONSORS

You can contact the Summercon sponsors by several means:

E-mail: [email protected]

WWW: http://www.fc.net/scon.html

Snail Mail: Phrack Magazine
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 10 17 Apr 1995

603 W. 13th #1A-278
Austin, TX 78701

If deemed severely urgent, you can PGP your email with the following PGP
key:

- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6

mQCNAizMHvgAAAEEAJuIW5snS6e567/34+nkSA9cn2BHFIJLfBm3m0EYHFLB0wEP
Y/CIJ5NfcP00R+7AteFgFIhu9NrKNJtrq0ZMAOmiqUWkSzSRLpwecFso8QvBB+yk
Dk9BF57GftqM5zesJHqO9hjUlVlnRqYFT49vcMFTvT7krR9Gj6R4oxgb1CldAAUR
tBRwaHJhY2tAd2VsbC5zZi5jYS51cw==
=evjv
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

See you in Atlanta!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

PETITION/STATEMENT:SAVE RAMONA
From: National Commission for Democracy in Mexico
<[email protected]>

PUBLIC COMMUNIQUE: PROMOTE, RETRANSMIT, PUBLICIZE AND RESEND IT

NOTICE REGARDING THE CAMPAIGN FOR RAMONA

The campaign for the life of Ramona that groups of women are
pushing has had such a favorable response that today we find
ourselves backed by national and international organizations and
by thousands of men and women citizens.

Ramona is gravely ill and her illness is curable. For this
reason the campaign is dedicated to obtain the necessary
conditions to allow her to travel to Mexico City to receive
specialized medical attention, which does not exist in the state
of Chiapas. Comandante Ramona, in addition to being a model of
of the dignity of women, represents the thousands of indigenous
people who die every day from curable diseases because they are
unable to get medical attention.

The Mexican government should make the commitment and authorize
athe necessary guarantees to ensure the personal safety of
Comandante Ramona without condition, so that she can receive
medical attention in Mexico City or outside of the country.

NATIONAL CONVENTION OF WOMEN- CND

Operator: Jossie

*******************************************************

NATIONAL COVENTION OF WOMEN-NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION
****************************************
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 11 17 Apr 1995

FOR A PEACE WITH JUSTICE AND DIGNITY

FAX 5 90 20 21

Address:
Convencion Nacional de Mujeres
Xola 181-3 piso,Col. Alamos, C.P. 03400
Mexico D.F.
**********
PUBLIC COMMUNIQUE: PROMOTE, RETRANSMIT, PUBLICIZE AND RESEND IT

CAMPAIGN TO COLLECT SIGNATURES TO SAVE THE LIFE OF RAMONA

The following is a call to support the respect of the life of
Comandante Ramona and to demand that the government give the
guarantees for her eventual transport to Mexico City or to
outside the country to receive medical treatment.

Reproduce it, translate it, sign it, circulate it and sent it to
the Convencion Nacional de Mujeres, in Mexico City.
**************************************************

PETITION
IN DEMAND OF RAMONA'S LIFE

We, national and international organizations, men and women of
the world, hereby unite our voices in order to demand with full
guarantees for her personal security, the immediate transport of
Comandante Ramona of the CCRI-CG of the EZLN so that she may
receive whatever medical attention she may need. The Mexican
government, following the standards established in the Geneva
Convention, should guarantee safe transport so that she may
receive treatment and have ample time for recuperation. We know
that this petition complies with international law, and we will
do our all to defend the right to life and the physical integrity
of Comandante Ramona.

NAME/ORGANIZATION CITY COUNTRY

Reproduce and distribute this petition in order to collect the
greatest number of signatures possible:

The completed petitions should be sent to:

FAX 5 90 20 21 CNM-CND
5 84 81 30 Diputada Federal Convencionista Rosario Ibarra de
Piedra

BY CERTIFIED MAIL:

Convencion Nacional de Mujeres
Xola 181-3, col. Alamos
Mexico, D.F., C.P. 03400
Mexico
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 12 17 Apr 1995

This is a response to a response of the Fidonews article on
"Who Own's an echo"

You my friend are a fool. You do not realize that the problems a
moderator has stem from the software on which they use. Since
some sort of Parable seems to be required of every rambling
Fidonews article I will respond with one. Karl Marx's view of
the political and social systems of the world. He said that
they all were but a house built on a foundation. That
foundation is the economic system of a country. The economic
system is what decides the customs and political structure of a
country. Only by ripping out the ability of a system to post a
message on a "moderated" group without the moderator first
approving it will all this controversy end. Fidonet has too many
moderators.
--
--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!515!Paul.Cuni
Internet: [email protected]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Court Jester Has No Clothes Either
From: Fredric Rice (1:102/890)

Bob Moravsik, in FidoNews C13 says:

I see that our objective editor is only objective from a
biased point of view. As long as the issue is one they
agree with, objectivity flows abundantly.

I would suggest that someone inform Bob that our beloved editors
are neither paid to be objective nor are they asked to be. If
you want an objective editor, Bob, might I suggest that you start
your own e-magazine? Then you can play Lou Grant to your heart's
content.

The merit of Bob's suggestion of implimenting Draconian legal
measures into FidoNet echos can be negated entirely by his
inability to successfully defend his position as evidenced by his
need to launch personal attacks against the bringers of the
hurtful truth:

Mr. Rice offers his bizzare opinion that a mere threat
of legal action (even if justified), cause one to be
lined up on the tanks and shot. Saddam would be proud.

If one can work through the holes in the sentence, one can see
that Bob _lied_, folks. The record is clear: I never advocated
the execution of those who threaten legal action against anyone.
Anyone may merely read the FidoNews article I wrote and see that
Bob is 'sadly mistaken.'

The need to lie and equate those with the audacity to speak the
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 13 17 Apr 1995

hurtful truth to mass murdering despots shows that one can't
even defending one's own position rationally. As if often said,
when the opposistion likens you to Hitler, you win the argument.

He further complains that 'mere words' uttered by hot-heads are
meaningless and that there is no need to punish anyone for what
they threaten to do. What Bob has elected not to comment upon is
the fact that I, like many others in the public eye, take such
threats seriously. When someone threatens legal action, I fax
the threat to my layer immediatly -- it is irresponsible and
dangerous not to.

This wasn't needed decades ago yet in todays society, such self-
protective measures are needed. The need to protect oneself
against hurrassment suits and claims of suits has been growing
in leaps and bounds and there is no indication that the trend is
going to slow or reverse itself. FidoNet already has its share
of liticious individuals. In my most humble opinion, they should
be ejected at the first threat they utter.

Bob, you seem to be saying that you don't mind if any number of
people threaten SysOps with law suits just because they don't
like the Moderator, the rules of an Echo, or the fact that they
lost an argument. Open a window, Bob, and look outside. You'll
see that it's America, not the Land of Oz.

Lastly, he must contrive fantasy to try to convince himself that
his position is needed. He doesn't have a real-world case to
draw upon so he builds a mental construct:

I can set up a simple experiement. Mr. Rice, Mr Schwartz
and I route echo FOOBAR. Mr. Schwatz is moderator. He
links to Rice; Rice links to me. I break an instantly
made rule under the reserve rights nonsense. Mr. Rice
crys foul, cuts Schwatz out.

Mr. Rice would never complain; the rules are enforced by the
Moderator, Bob, and dispensation of the individuals who break the
rules are the responsibility of the Moderator, not its users or
distributors. Didn't you know that?

Your position is nonsense, Bob.

Shut up, sit down, and ride the bus with the rest of us.

Fredric L. Rice
1:102/890 (818) 335-9601

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: The ECROC Question
From: Frank Perricone (1:325/611)

Here's a very short article about the ECROC question for the
Snooze.
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 14 17 Apr 1995

The ECROC Question

Recent articles about ECROC have begun to go back and forth on
the never- ending question about what Policy4, or any other
already-existing, official statement says about moderators and
who owns an echo.

The authors are missing the point. The question isn't what the
policy was IN THE PAST because there wasn't one, and even if
there was, maybe it was wrong. The only issue is what the policy
should be IN THE FUTURE.

What matters is not how we came to be here, but where we want to
go next. Let's focus on that question and the whole debate,
both sides of which have valid points, will be that much easier
on these tired eyes.

It seems to me, BTW, that the two key points behind ECROC are
things that haven't even been brought up yet: how can you
"prove" anything happened with a medium as easily forged as
ASCII? And now that the majority of North American systems get
echos from Planet Connect, directly or indirectly, without a
clear policy about echo removals, all the *Cs and *ECs in the
world can't make a dent in the power of Boyd Goodin. Let's talk
about these, shall we?

Frank J. Perricone, 1:325/611

----------------------------------------------------------------------

========================================================================
Fidonews Information
========================================================================

------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Donald Tees, Sylvia Maxwell
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar
Tom Jennings
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)

more addresses:
Rev. Richard Visage -- 1:163/409
Don -- 1:221/192, [email protected]
Sylvia -- 1:221/194, [email protected]
Tim -- [email protected]

(Postal Service mailing address)
FidoNews
128 Church St.
Kitchener, Ontario
FidoNews 12-16 Page: 15 17 Apr 1995

Canada
N2H 2S4

voice: (519) 570-3137

Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation
of individual articles contributed by their authors or their
authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation
does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in
these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of
FidoNews.

Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright 1995 Donald Tees. All rights reserved. Duplication
and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use
in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds.
Articles by Madam emilia may be retransmitted freely through
cyber-space.

OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail
address, or trade for copy of your 'zine.

INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org,
in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews.

Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may
freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to
[email protected]. No message or text or subject is
necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated
response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch
should now mail to [email protected] rather than the
previously listed address.

SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission.

"the pulse of the cursor is the heartbeat of fidonet"...
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