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* Chrono Trigger/Cross *
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* Extratemporal Locations FAQ *
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* Version 1.0 *
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* Written by Leebot (Bryan Gillis) *
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[email protected] *
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Table of Contents
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A. Introduction
B. Locations
I. The End of Time
II. Lavos' Pocket Dimension
III. The Black Omen
IV. The Temporal Vortex
V. The Bend of Time
VI. The Dead Sea
VII. The Darkness Beyond Time
C. Appendix 1: Important terms
I. Time-Error
II. QC-Like
D. Appendix 2: Reference Material
I. Lavos Article
II. Links
E. Credits
F. Disclaimer
A. Introduction
---------------
In the world of Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, the normal timelines
are the mere tip of the proverbial iceberg. This FAQ aims to detail all
other locations outside the normal timeline, providing analysis on
thier nature and residents. I highly recommend you read Appendix 1
before the Locations section, as knowledge of the terms there is
important for understanding many arguments.
Note: Certain quotes have been edited for spelling and grammar and
truncated from their original versions. This is done to facilitate the
reading of this FAQ, and it is not my intention to misrepresent the
quotees in any way.
B. Locations
------------
I. The End of Time
1. Mechanics - TE
2. Nature - Spacetime point of least resistance; connects to all
time portals. Probably QC-like.
3. Residents
a. Gaspar - Guru of Zeal; sent here after Lavos encounter. Holds
Time Egg (Chrono Trigger). [Name Gaspar derived from one of three wise
men in Christian Bible]
b. Spekkio - Calls self God of War; teaches magic. Strength
proportional to that of opponents. Possibly Nu, natural phenomenon, or
embodiment of magic. [Name Spekkio derived from Latin "Specchio" for
"Mirror"]
II. Lavos' Pocket Dimension
1. Mechanics - TE
2. Nature - Area of space outside the timeline created by Lavos,
allowing him access to all time periods.
3. Residents
a. Lavos
III. The Black Omen
1. Mechanics - M (Certain creatures and the structure progress
through time normally, other creatures progress through Time-Error
instead)
2. Nature - Formerly the Ocean Palace, empowered by contact with
Lavos via the Mammon Machine. Contact with Lavos has caused
miscellaneous temporal disruptions.
3. Residents
a. Queen Zeal - Queen of the Kingdom of Zeal who used the Mammon
Machine to try to drain Lavos' energy, resulting in Zeal's destruction.
b. The Mammon Machine - Machine created by Queen Zeal to drain
Lavos' energy.
c. Nu - Two Nu mysteriously exist here. They were possibly in the
Ocean Palace when it rose.
IV. The Temporal Vortex
1. Mechanics - ST
2. Nature - Appears to be two-dimensional, either an impressionist
painting or a drawing of M.C. Escher. Referred to as "The place where
lost souls wander." Probably QC-like. Possibly the gap between Home and
Another.
3. Residents
a. Sprigg - Mysterious woman capable of morphing into monsters.
V. The Bend of Time
1. Mechanics - ST
2. Nature - Architecture and design similar to EoT, minus Spekkio's
room; contains gates allowing battle with various monsters; possibly
decommissioned EoT or dimensional equivalent of EoT. Possibly QC-like.
3. Residents
a. Octopus - Next to nothing known; mentions "God of War"
b. Ozzie, Slash, and Flea - Famous villains from CT; possibly
arrived after events in 600 AD. in CT due to some teleporting error;
possibly replicas (created by Octopus?)
VI. The Dead Sea
1. Mechanics - ST
2. Nature
3. Residents
a. Miguel
b. Ghosts of Crono, Marle, and Lucca
VII. The Darkness Beyond Time
1. Mechanics - TE
2. Nature - Repository for discarded time strands.
3. Residents
a. Time Devourer/Schala - Evolved being created by merger of
Schala and Lavos; intends to devour all timestreams.
I. The End of Time
Mechanics: Time-Error (When a traveler enters the End of Time, the
Time-Error of the gate or vehicle that brought them there determines
the time* at which they arrive. When they leave, the time* determines
the appropriate Time-Error of their destination gate.)
Nature: As Gaspar explains, the End of Time is at the space-time
coordinates of least resistance. It contains light pillars connecting
to all gates, and a bucket that connects to a gate at the Day of the
Lavos. The gothic architecture gives the place a solemn feeling.
Analysis: The nature of the end of our universe depends primarily on
the curvature of its space.
If the curvature of the universe is positive, the gravity of the bodies
in the universe will eventually cause them to pull everything back
together in a "Big Crunch" which would collapse the entirety of the
universe into a singularity (a black hole).
If the curvature of the universe is negative, bodies will keep
accelerating away from each other, and the ever-increasing force of
entropy will take over, resulting in a "heat-death" of the universe,
followed by a gradual cooling as it fades away, leaving only black
holes behind.
If the curvature of the universe is flat, the universe will approach an
equilibrium size as time approaches infinity. As this approaches, it is
most likely that all the mass in the universe will fall into the black
holes scattered throughout.
Einstein originally predicted that the universe was positively curved,
but recent measurements have shown that this is unlikely. One recent
measurement showed that the universe is extremely close to being flat,
within a small margin of error. Other recent observations have shown
distance stellar phenomena accelerating away from us, which is
consistent with negative curvature.
The one notable constant in all these endings is the presence of
singularities (black holes). In a singularity, all known physics breaks
down, as it is incapable of handling a 0-dimensional universe. If
Chrono Trigger's End of Time exists in a singularity, we may be lead to
believe that it is a place consisting of pure thought, being QC-like.
This is supported by the observation that when Gaspar first arrives, it
is empty, but the party reaches an End of Time that apparently consists
of a few rooms with gothic-style architecture.
Leebot wrote:
"From a quasi-philosophical standpoint, one can look at them as more of
"states of existence" than physical places. As such, only the spirit
would truly exist there. The body, air, and structure are all created
to provide a metaphorical structure to this space to provide travelers
an image they could comprehend (like how the Q Continuum is shown in
Star Trek: Voyager)."
Epsilon wrote:
"The problem with that is (going by the idea that the minds of
characters "create" the EoT/BoT using things they're familiar with..)
is that there is no other area in CT that looks like the EoT (I havent
replayed CC inawhile, so I'm not sure abot that...), so how could it be
made out of things they are familiar with?"
Leebot wrote:
"If we accept my theory as true, we can take it a bit further. We don't
know that all characters see the same thing, or even that we see the
same thing as the characters. If not, the End of Time would be a
representation that is supposed to evoke a certain image for the
players (I get the impression of a 50's (or so) metropolis at night,
evoking a sense of loneliness and isolation).
If all who are there see the same thing, then it's likely that Gaspar
created that image. It's possible he saw something like that peering
through a time-portal, or heard it described from some other traveler.
The only other place in either game that resembles the End of Time is
(not surprisingly), the Bend of Time from CC."
Residents:
Gaspar - Guru of Time from the Kingdom of Zeal. In the Ocean Palace
disaster, he was caught in a gate and sent to the End of Time, where he
watches over the timeline.
Name Origin: Gaspar was the name of one of the three wisemen who
brought gifts to the baby Christ is Christian lore.
Spekkio - A mysterious creature who teaches the party magic. His
appearance corresponds to the power level of those who see him, if
they're weak, he appears weak. If they're strong, he appears strong.
His forms are (in order of increasing power):
Croaker
Kilwala
Blue Goblin
Red Omnicrone
Masa & Mune (combined form)
Red Nu
Name Origin: Spekkio is derived from the Latin "Specchio," which means
"Mirror."
Analysis: There are many theories regarding the true nature of Spekkio.
They include:
1) Spekkio is a Nu.
Faulce wrote:
"He takes the form of a redish-pinkish Nu as his final form. And has
attacks such as Luminaire and Dark Matter. Why a Nu???"
Faulce wrote:
"Well, Spekkio says, "If you're strong, I look strong. If you're weak,
I look weak." Which implies that the Nu must be strong... However, he
also says right after that "You are strong of will, thats why the old
one let you through." So not all people who accidentally entered the
EoT saw Spekkio. In fact, we don't see anyone else in the game outside
of 12000 B.C. who can use magic as far as I can remember. And perhaps
the "strong of will" statement refers to how the Nu may work for the
planet and diligently watch the workings of mankind to make sure things
are going in such a way as to eventually work out for the Entity's best
interests.
I don't know if he wants Lavos dead or not, he never seems to
acknowledge his existence."
Daggart wrote:
"The problem with Spekkio being a Nu to me has always been that he acts
nothing like the other Nu."
Faulce wrote:
"Thats true, he does act nothing like the other Nu.
(1) He has a name. (2) He fights using more than a headbutt. (3) He can
shapeshift. (4) He's red. (5) He has way more HP. [His final form has
20,000, I think. The normal Nu has 1234HP]. (6) His personality is more
developed than the other Nu we see."
2) Spekkio is a force of nature, or the embodiment of magic itself.
V_Translanka wrote:
"Plus, he has almost all the strongest magic attacks (Luminaire, Flare,
Dark Matter), Hallation, & Salt (although some times he uses Salt on a
party member). I think his having magical ability far outclasses him
from being a lowly Nu. Nu only have two attacks really; Headbutt (1HP)
& Headbutt (all but 1HP). Spekkio, along with not having either
ability, has a hoard of magical ability. Plus, he somehow manages to
avoid all physical attacks.
Only magic harms him and he has lots of magic himself. So, I believe
Spekkio to be some kind of magical entity (not to be confused with the
actual Entity). His power is simply a reflection of the power the party
may have at any given time. If not just a reflection, then an
enhancement of some kind. I've heard that spekkio means "mirror" in
some other language...Although I might have heard that was debunked
too...Whatever, it fits either way."
XchrononetX wrote:
"Perhaps Spekkio represents the very balance in the elements, the force
that the people of Zeal forgot after finding Lavos as a potential for
of energy. After all, it seems that he has all the most powerful
representations of the Magic elements in his array of attacks, and it
would only seem fit that he would be the pure representation of magic
itself. This would make sense in that physical attacks cannot harm him,
as magic is a force beyond a fist, so to speak. Magic can only harm
magic... Yep, I think that's it. Spekkio is "Magic", or at least that's
what I think."
Faulce wrote:
"I think that is a possibility. Even though 'magic' did not originally
exist, the four elements (Lightning, Fire, Water, and Shadow) did exist
and their balance was important. Maybe that is what the Nu are for: to
preserve the balance of the elements (hence why there are so many of
them in 12,000B.C. and almost none in any other era (and only one when
magic ceases to be used in 12,000B.C.!!!))."
3Fangs 3Petals 3Feathers wrote:
"It is my personal beleif that Spekkio is the Anti-Lavos. As Lavos was
created (and to some beleif, magic was created) the 'balance of power'
created Spekkio. As when Spekkio leaves in the ending of the return to
EoT, I beleive that as Lavos is 'defeated' (temporarily at least),
Spekkio is called back to wherever they both came from, and balance is
given back to the world."
Faulce wrote:
"Its all starting to make sense now. I'm starting to think though that
Spekkio was created to balance the elements after Lavos fell and during
the height of Zealian magic use. The Nu were simply not enough (in
terms of my new idea for their purpose) to keep the balance physically,
so a true and complete magical balance had to be created to fulfill the
'hole' in the balance. (I really hope I'm not way off on this.)"
3) Spekkio is an alien being, possibly like Lavos.
Epsilon wrote:
"That gave me an idea for a theory... What if Spekkio is another member
of Lavos' race who achieved "perfect evolution," and for whatever
reason decided to go to the End of Time (Or it existed, gathering DNA
up until the End of Time...)?"
4) Spekkio is a creation of Gaspar.
V_Translanka wrote:
"I assume that even when the so-called "Enlightened" ones were in Zeal,
they did not automatically know Magic. For one, it's said how Schala
and Janus seem to have their Magics (or lack of Magics) tested just to
see if they have any ability. It makes sense that someone would teach
them, if not exactly, then somewhat like how Spekkio teaches Crono &
Co.
I immediately thought: The Gurus! But I also thought: Which of them
would teach Magic? Did any of them even seem to know any Magic?
Belthasar seems like he'd be too busy with the Epoch and the like...
Melchior with his weapons... So, then, Gasper? Was there a Zealian
council? Perhaps Dalton (he was a Magic user and even a Summoner)?
Probably not... Or maybe it was just some of the scientists of Kajar or
something? Maybe Q. Zeal herself taught Schala?"
Leebot wrote:
"I just thought of something: What if Spekkio is an extension or
creation of Gaspar? If so, it stands to reason that Gaspar could be
able to teach magic to the people of Zeal."
Leebot wrote:
"Here's a wierd theory: Gaspar created Spekkio to appear in forms that
each appeared more powerful than the previous one, but (for some
reason) he wanted it to look like a Nu to him, so he made its most
powerful form look like a Nu. He would see the most powerful form, as
in order to create something with a certain level of magic, he would
have to possess at least that level of magic himself (at least, in
theory)."
Chrono'99 wrote:
"I've just thought about something. Masa and Mune claim to be
Melchior's dream embodied, and Belthasar put his mind into his Nu, who
is sleeping (either physically or "outside the flow of time", after you
turn him off). Apparently, two of the Gurus are linked to some kind of
avatars who have something to do with dreams.
Now what about Gaspar? There was nothing in the End of Time when he
came, but eventually a ground and Spekkio appeared, while Gaspar is
sleeping. Perhaps Spekkio is Gaspar's "dream avatar"? That God of War
seems quite eccentric and out of place, so perhaps he is just a fancy
dream Gaspar is having?"
II. Lavos' Pocket Dimension
Mechanics: Time-Error (Any time the pocket dimension comes into contact
with the timeline, the time* of the pocket dimension that appears is
determined by the time-error of an existing gate in the timeline.)
Nature:
Analysis: Lavos displays some strange behavior. If the travelers defeat
the shell and warp into the past, the shell is still defeated. A
strange blue aura surrounds Lavos during the Ocean Palace disaster and
the final battle. Lavos Core is able to open time warps to different
eras. Lavos also appears to have knowledge of the future; during the
final battle it emulate the fighting techniques of Guardian, which
exists in 2300 AD. A possible explanation is that Lavos exists within a
pocket dimension, or "time bubble," which transcends time.
When Lavos arrived on earth in 65 million BC, it created a pocket
dimension separate from normal space time, existing on the time-error
axis. A wormhole connects the pocket dimension to every time period.
Lavos is not actually physically present within the earth. The wormhole
aperture is located at the earth's core, giving Lavos access to the
planet's energy and lifeforms. During the Day of Lavos or the Ocean
Palace disaster, the wormhole ascends to the surface, causing a
dimensional disturbance. The wormhole offers an uninterrupted view of
the pocket dimension, creating the illusion of Lavos' presence.
If one approaches Lavos, and passes through the wormhole, the interior
of the pocket dimension has appearance of the blue aura which surrounds
Lavos. During the Ocean Palace Disaster, Queen Zeal, Magus and the
others warp into the pocket dimension. During the final battle, Crono
battles Lavos in the pocket dimension.
Lavos' core is able to open time warps to different times, because it
is connected to those eras through the wormhole. The aperture of the
wormhole gives a distorted view of the time period being accessed.
Lavos is also able to survey the entire timeline and would have
knowledge of, for example, Guardian's fighting style.
After* Lavos dies, the pocket dimension no longer connects to space-
time, but the past* Lavos still exists, and would be theoretically
accessible if a time traveler accessed it from an earlier* time-error
then that at which Lavos was defeated, but it is generally not possible
to travel to a lower time-error.
This then raises the question of why Lavos chose to ascend in 1999 AD.
if it had the ability to ascend at any time. The reason for this can be
inferred from Lavos' original purpose.
Lucca wrote:
"Now I understand...
It lives on a planet for as long as
possible, stealing away the most vital
resources...
It combined the DNA it found here
with its own, and gave birth to those
creatures up on Death Peak."
Robo wrote:
"This was Lavos's goal...!
Using the DNA of every organism...
And achieving the ultimate in
evolution!"
It is likely that Lavos determined that 1999 AD. was the best balance
of collecting as much DNA as possible and having as low a chance as
possible of the inhabitants defeating him.
It's worth noting how the timeline would appear to Lavos. When he's in
the core of the planet at first, he would see a timeline in which Zeal
taps into his energy and uses it for their own purposes. He then
decided to stop this, so interfered and destroyed Zeal. When he went
back into the planet, he saw the timeline progressing from that point,
with Zeal being destroyed and the populace eventually advancing beyond
where they were in 1999 AD. (he sees a regular future rather than the
ruined one). He then decides that 1999 AD. is the best time to arise,
so he does so. In the "Lavos Timeline" he rains destruction on the
world, exits his pocket dimension, and starts producing offspring. The
short period between when Lavos rises and when he exits his pocket
dimension--when Crono's party takes him on--is the only time when the
wormhole can connect to the ruined future.
Residents:
Lavos - Lavos is a being of godly power who crashed into earth in
65,000,000 BC. and laid waste to it in 1999 AD. His purpose was to
harvest the DNA of all lifeforms on earth in order to create even more
powerful offspring. In order to improve this process, he artifically
accelerated the evolution of humans.
Analysis: The origin of Lavos is unknown. He may be unique, or one of
many. Theories include:
1) Lavos is the result of a lot of natural evolution which resulted in
this "monster."
2) Lavos (or one of his ancestors) was a biological superweapon gone
wrong (think Deus from Xenogears).
III: The Black Omen
Mechanics: Mixed (Certain creatures within the Black Omen exist on the
standard time axis; if they're defeated at one point in time, they
won't exist in the future, but will exist in the past. Other creatures
exist on the Time-Error axis; if the party defeats them once, they
cannot encounter them again, as the party has no way to travel to a
point at lower Time-Error.)
Analysis:
Faulce wrote:
"Why wouldn't the lasers in the front be there even if you only defeat
them in the present, and why does Queen Zeal only confront the party
the first time she sees them or (if you start that the present) the
"third" time she sees them? (I'm talking about the whole Black Omen
'age' thing)"
V_Translanka wrote:
"As for the lasers...No idea...I guess my old theory about the Mammon
Machine is powered by temporal energy...Perhaps the Mammon Machine's
energy source is inside of a pocket dimension...Wait, doesn't that make
sense? Because the Mammon Machine is in a pocket dimension, right? And
it's like the powerstation isn't it? Drawing power from Lavos (also in
a pocket dimension). So then, the energy of the Black Omen could simply
be limited in that regard to one surge or something."
Faulce wrote:
"So wait, are you saying that the lasers are not there because of the
pocket dimension? In other words, you destroy the lasers once in any
time period, and they are gone for good? Okay... but then why does the
Black Omen exist in past eras even when you destroy it in present? If
you destroy the lasers in the present, they are gone for good, but the
Black Omen itself.... or maybe I took what you said completely
differently from what I should have gotten from it, I have a tendency
to do that."
V_Translanka wrote:
"No, I was saying that the Black Omen's energy source for certain
things was in a pocket dimension, like how the--if not because the--
Mammon Machine is. That is, if they're knocked out of commission in one
timeline, they can't have the power to function for the other
timelines."
V_Translanka wrote:
"*argues with own theory*
Then why aren't the laser guards still there? If it's just an energy
source, they should still be there in physical form, right? Unlike the
bosses, they aren't summoned to their position. So, then why are they
destroyed when you travel back?
*goes back and argues for the theory*
Well...Because...The...Energy...It...Since...Oh! I know! Because the
energy source is depleted, the past occurances needn't have them in the
first place!"
Leebot wrote:
"My theory on the whole Black Omen problem is that different parts of
the Omen are attached to the timeline in different ways. Some, like the
laser guards, exist like the End of Time, and defeating them once
defeats them in all eras. Other parts, like Queen Zeal, exist in the
normal timeline, and if the defeated in the present can be fought again
in the past."
Faulce wrote:
"Yay Leebot, good ideas. However, if some things operate with the
"destroy it once and its gone for good" idea, then when the Omen is
destroyed by Lavos in the Present, wouldn't parts of it just "not
exist" in the past? Unless the entire Omen exists in the Normal
timeline and only certain beings and weapons inside of it exist like
the EoT, wouldn't parts of the Omen be missing? Well I guess not, since
the parts are all there, except the lasers and the panels."
Leebot wrote:
"Good point. I'd guess it's just certain animated beings that can fall
into the "destroy it once and for all" category (animated beings
including organic creatures as well as automated defense systems). The
structural elements of the Black Omen would all have to be part of the
normal timeline."
V_Translanka wrote:
"Wait, what about the EoT makes anything seem like defeating it once
defeats them in all eras? I don't understand his comparison...If I'm
reading you, then you're basically saying you believe them to be in
pocket dimensions? I'm not sure if that's what you're saying here..."
Leebot wrote:
"Well, I'm saying that maybe they behave like pocket dimensions in how
they act across various time periods. You can access them from any time
period, but it's the actions that you took in your relative perspective
that matter, not whether you defeated them in a time period before or
after the current one."
Nature: After the disaster in the Ocean Palace, Queen Zeal used the
energy she had absorbed from Lavos to empower both herself and the
Ocean Palace. This caused the Ocean Palace to rise into the air and
become the Black Omen.
Analysis:
Excalibur wrote:
"Why doesn't the Black Omen appear in the original timeline?
Realistically, the only thing Crono and gang accomplished was getting
Crono vaporized, so it can't be due to their meddling. Ditto Magus.
Also, since the Masamune already exists (in AD 600) before you create
it (in 12,000 BC)*, somebody ELSE must have done the same (in 12,000
BC) BEFORE the timeline was altered. And wow, typing that sentence
almost made my head explode.
The fact remains that the Mammon Machine HAD to have been tampered with
(thus creating the Masamune), getting Lavos' attention who then
appeared in the Ocean Palace and destroyed Zeal. Now that Lavos has
connected to the Palace, Queen Zeal should have joined with it, and
raised the Black Omen.
The party's presence should have had no effect on this."
Symmetry wrote:
"We're not sure exactly how the events of the Ocean Palace disaster
went down the first time, other than through Janus' claims on the North
Cape. However, Crono & Co's interference means that Schala uses the
last of her power to send THEM to safety instead of herself and
possibly Queen Zeal - thus, no Omen in that scenario."
Residents:
Queen Zeal - The power-hungry queen of the Kingdom of Zeal. She had the
Mammon Machine built to tap into the power of Lavos. When her plan was
put into action in the Ocean Palace, it caused Lavos to awaken. Due in
part to Crono's interference, she was able to survive this disaster.
Empowered by Lavos, she caused the Ocean Palace to rise up and become
the Black Omen. Lavos' power also seems to have gifted her with
immortality.
The Mammon Machine - A machine created by Queen Zeal to absorb Lavos'
energy. In the Lavos timeline, its use caused Lavos to awaken. Lavos
then absorbed the Mammon Machine into its pocket dimension. When Crono
interfered in the timeline, he caused the destruction of the Mammon
Machine. It is this ruined version that the party encounters in the
Black Omen. Queen Zeal then sends them into Lavos' pocket dimension,
where they encounter the undamaged version from the Lavos timeline.
Nu - Two Nu exist in the Black Omen. They are most likely the same Nu
who were seen in the Ocean Palace before it rose. See The Secret of Nu
for more information on the Nu.
IV: The Temporal Vortex
Mechanics: Standard Time (The timeline of the Temporal Vortex exists in
parallel with Home and Another.)
Nature: Serge arrives in the Temporal Vortex after acquiring Lynx's
body and being cast off by Dark Serge. The scenery resembles famous
painting styles, both Impressionist and M.C. Escher. The chapter
subtitle refers to it as "The place where lost souls wander." Both the
scenery and the enemies found there (TotalChaos) appear to be
completely two-dimensional.
Analysis: The most prevalent theory about the Temporal Vortex is that
it is the gap between Home and Another.
doulifee wrote:
"Could be a place between the 2 dimensions, that's why 2-dimensional
foes live there and why you can gather all your characters in this
place."
This raises the question of why the Temporal Vortex is 2-dimensional.
If it's the space between Home and Another, one might expect it to have
an additional dimensional element, rather than one fewer. One way this
might occur is as follows: We know that Home and Another are connected
at many points (Opassa Beach, the Dead Sea/Sea of Eden, the Bend of
Time, Turnip, and possibly more). If a path is traced out around these
points, it will form a polygon. Stretching this accross another
dimension (to bridge Home and Another) will create a two dimensional
surface that bridges the gap between the two dimensions. If we extend
this idea, the Escher-inspired portion of the Temporal Vortex might
represent a knot in the connections.
The fact that the Temporal Vortex is represented by artistic styles
that are very recognizable to players is highly indicative that the
Temporal Vortex is QC-like.
Residents:
Sprigg - Little green woman capable of morphing into monsters. She
doesn't say much about her past, but we know the following tidbits:
Leebot wrote:
"Fortune Teller wrote:
'......! It's been a long time, Lady Sprigg. Have you been well?'
Analysis: She's definitely been to Another before, even though the TV
only connects to Home (at least, for us)."
GreenGannon wrote:
"You say Sprigg has been to another, yet her TV connects to home. She
probably last visited El Nido before the Time Split."
Leebot wrote:
"Frozen Flame wrote:
'This is power I can't make me own...
Hah! There ain't no use telling me to do anythin', chum!
..you don't ave to tell me nothin'!
I know I might've led an easier life if I'da been kinder to otherz...'"
ZeaLitY wrote:
"Sprigg, Guile, and Sneff all belong to some esoteric, magic guild.
Whether we can interpret these as leftovers from the time when Magus
was Guile is unknown, but it does mean these guys are in some kind of
cahoots."
ZeaLitY wrote:
"If you take Sneff to Guile, he begins ranting about Guile being the
rising star in the guild. Sprigg is supposed to say something as well,
but I'm not sure who I need to take to who. I'll try it later."
Analysis: We know so little about Sprigg that any theorizing is better
left to fanfic writers. A few possibilities:
1. She might have been a treasure hunter who tried to steal the Frozen
Flame.
2. She's a reclusive magician.
3. She's a demon.
V: The Bend of Time
Mechanics: Standard Time (Although the Bend of Time doesn't exist in
any dimension, its timeline runs parallel to those of Home and
Another.)
Nature: The Bend of Time has similar architecture to the End of Time
with ten pillars of light that allow the party to battle monsters from
areas they've previously explored, a single streetlight with an
octopus-like creature sitting at its base, and a door which opens in a
New Game+ to allow battle with Ozzie, Slash, and Flea. The Bend of Time
can be accessed from a small island chain in both Home and Another.
Analysis: There are two main theories regarding the nature of the Bend
of Time.
1. The Bend of Time is the decommissioned version of the End of Time.
YbrikMetaknight wrote:
"OK, this is gonna be pretty out there, so just bear with me. Perhaps
the End of Time went to the El Nido Archipelago where it became the
Bend of Time. The reason it would go there is to follow the massive
temporal energies of Chronopolis after the Time Crash."
Ingonyama wrote:
"As for Gaspar, I think he left with the others to live out a life in
another time period. Maybe he joined Belthasar in the revamped future?
Or became a royal advisor to King Guardia XXI in 600 AD? I doubt he
went as far back as 65,000,000 BC, but it's possible. Most likely,
though, I bet he went back to the Last Village to help them rebuild
civilization after the fall of Zeal."
RabidTurtle wrote:
"Or he's still in the End of Time, and the Bend of Time are two
separate areas. The Bend of Time may just be a temporal distortion
created by the split in dimensions."
YbrikMetaknight wrote:
"I still believe that the End of Time and the Bend of Time are one and
the same, or at least closely connected. They're too similar to not be.
I, for one, support the idea that Gaspar went out into the world, or
possibly retains the ability to travel through the eras even though the
gates are inaccessible, while the End of Time was pulled by the Time
Crash to El Nido, where monsters seemed to come towards it (and how
exactly did Ozzie, Slash and Flea end up there anyway?)."
ZeaLitY wrote:
"Gaspar probably envisioned the End of Time as being able to take on a
separate function, and installed a simple keeper (the punching bag
monster in the Bend of Time)."
See minor theory 2.
2. The Bend of Time is the dimensional equivalent of the End of Time.
Leebot wrote:
"I personally would explain it as the dimensional equivalent of The End
of Time. Where TEoT is the point of least resistance on the timeline,
TBoT is the point of least resistance between different dimensions. It
has certain parallels to TEoT: You can access it from either dimension
(although you can't travel to the other), it has portals to different
places (rather than different times), not to mention the similar
architecture.
The portals might be connected to the memories of the travelers,
allowing them to relive (in a sense) past conflicts. Ozzie, Slash, and
Flea, on the other hand, wouldn't have a portal as they hadn't
previously been encountered. "Why them?" is extremely hard to answer in
game terms. Possibly the octopus (or Gaspar, or whoever) has some
manner of control there and brought them there on a whim."
ZealitY wrote:
"I have a small note on the Bend of Time under theory 2; since the End
of Time is the weakest coordinate on the timeline, would the Bend of
Time be the weakest coordinate dimensionally for each world or
interdimensionally? The former demands that space, like time, has a
point of least resistance, or something to that effect, while the
second, which I believe is more plausible, holds that among the strong
differences and connections between the two dimensions (which stemmed
directly from one another; see
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=195 ) , the Bend
of Time exists as a coordinate of connection between the two. I would
say weakest, but this is self-contradicting; how could the weakest
point of connection between the two also exist and be accessible from
both?"
Leebot wrote:
"It works as the weakest point if you look at it this way: "between"
the two dimensions is some type of force pressing everyone away from
the other dimension and keeping them in their own. If the Bend of Time
is the weakest point of this force, it's plausible that people could
enter the gap here. The Angelus Errare point, to extend this metaphor,
could be like quantum tunneling accross the barrier. Back to the Bend
of Time: The reason people return to the same dimension they left could
be explained by an extension of the "Missing Piece Theorem"; they left
a hole in the dimension they left, so they have to first go there to
fill it."
Leebot wrote:
"A supplement to my theory of the Bend of Time being the point of least
resistance:
The party can only access the Bend of Time after the following events:
1) Serge takes on Lynx's body.
2) Serge (as Lynx) is sent to Sprigg's dimension.
3) Lynx, Sprigg, and Harle cross from Sprigg's dimension to Home.
It's possible that the Bend of Time appeared in Home due to a violation
of a "Conservation of Dimensions" theorem. Lynx's party crossing to
Home was the first instance of dimensional crossing that didn't involve
a "Missing Piece" (unless Sprigg or Harle qualifies) so this may have
caused the availability of the Bend of Time. On the other hand, it
could have been Harle or Sprigg that caused this. Harle, as a dragon,
may not have been intended to use this type of portal. Sprigg may not
even be native to our dimension, or even compatible with it. Whichever
the case, this dimensional cross may have violated the "Conservation of
Dimensions" theorem. Then, when they finally went to Another, they
violated it again, and the Bend of Time became available there."
There are also a couple of other theories regarding the Bend of Time
which aren't inconsistent with either of the major theories.
1. The Bend of Time is another connection point between the timelines.
ZealitY wrote:
"I have a small note on the Bend of Time under theory 2; since the End
of Time is the weakest coordinate on the timeline, would the Bend of
Time be the weakest coordinate dimensionally for each world or
interdimensionally? The former demands that space, like time, has a
point of least resistance, or something to that effect, while the
second, which I believe is more plausible, holds that among the strong
differences and connections between the two dimensions (which stemmed
directly from one another; see
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=195 ) , the Bend
of Time exists as a coordinate of connection between the two. I would
say weakest, but this is self-contradicting; how could the weakest
point of connection between the two also exist and be accessible from
both?"
2. The Bend of Time is QC-like.
Leebot wrote:
"From a quasi-philosophical standpoint, one can look at them as more of
"states of existence" than physical places. As such, only the spirit
would truly exist there. The body, air, and structure are all created
to provide a metaphorical structure to this space to provide travelers
an image they could comprehend (like how the Q Continuum is shown in
Star Trek: Voyager)."
Epsilon wrote:
"The problem with that is (going by the idea that the minds of
characters "create" the EoT/BoT using things they're familiar with..)
is that there is no other area in CT that looks like the EoT (I havent
replayed CC inawhile, so I'm not sure abot that...), so how could it be
made out of things they are familiar with?"
Leebot wrote:
"If we accept my theory as true, we can take it a bit further. We don't
know that all characters see the same thing, or even that we see the
same thing as the characters. If not, the End of Time would be a
representation that is supposed to evoke a certain image for the
players (I get the impression of a 50's (or so) metropolis at night,
evoking a sense of loneliness and isolation).
If all who are there see the same thing, then it's likely that Gaspar
created that image. It's possible he saw something like that peering
through a time-portal, or heard it described from some other traveler.
The only other place in either game that resembles the End of Time is
(not surprisingly), the Bend of Time from CC."
Residents:
Octopus - An octopus exists mysteriously in the Bend of Time. When
approached by Janice, it mentions the "God of War."
Analysis: The "God of War" comment is potentially important given
Spekkio referring to himself as the "God of War" and the similar
appearance of the End of Time.
The Octopus may function as a guardian or custodian of the Bend of
Time.
Zeality wrote:
"Gaspar probably envisioned the End of Time as being able to take on a
separate function, and installed a simple keeper (the punching bag
monster in the Bend of Time)."
Alternatively, it may simply be a creature who got lost and wandered
into the Bend of Time.
Ozzie, Slash, and Flea - Recurring villains from Chrono Trigger. They
were encountered in Magus' Castle and later in Ozzie's Fort.
Analysis: How they arrived at the Bend of Time is unknown. Theories
include:
1. They were teleported there after the battle in Ozzie's fort.
ZealitY wrote:
"As for the Ozzie Crew, all I can think of is that they were homeless
after 600 A.D., and perhaps discovered a gate. Ozzie might have a few
time tricks up his sleeve."
Ingonyama wrote:
"Well...we don't know what happened to Ozzie and crew after CT. Last we
saw was him falling down that big hole after the cat jumped onto the
switch. Maybe that hole was a time portal of some kind? And when you
fight him, Flea, and Slash, they run away from you, usually before you
can beat them. Though it seems unlikely that time travel is among their
powers, it's conceivable that a resonance with Lavos interfered with it
to throw them off course. After all, that's fairly late in the game,
when things are coming to a head, and in 600 AD, the last major event
that happened was Lavos creating a Gate to 12,000 BC after being
summoned by Janus. I'd think after an event like that, teleportation
magic of any kind would be thrown seriously off-kilter."
2. Gaspar or the Octopus brought them there.
Leebot wrote:
"The portals might be connected to the memories of the travelers,
allowing them to relive (in a sense) past conflicts. Ozzie, Slash, and
Flea, on the other hand, wouldn't have a portal as they hadn't
previously been encountered. "Why them?" is extremely hard to answer in
game terms. Possibly the octopus (or Gaspar, or whoever) has some
manner of control there and brought them there on a whim."
3. They don't actually exist there. Their appearance is an extension of
the QC-like theory.
VI: The Dead Sea
Note: The topic of the Dead Sea has already been covered extensively in
the article, Salt for the Dead Sea, available at
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Salt_for_the_Dead_Sea. This
section overlaps partly with that article, but both should be read for
a thorough picture of the Dead Sea.
Mechanics: Standard Time (Time in the Dead Sea flows parallel to time
outside of it. However, the time in the Dead Sea is actually the time
of 10,000 years in the future. The peculiar nature of this allows
changes in the timeline outside the Dead Sea to affect the appearance
of the Dead Sea.)
Nature:
Analysis: In the incident known as the Time Crash, Chronopolis was
projected 10,000 years back in time. When the dimension, Home, split
off from Keystone T-2, the Sea of Eden (where Chronopolis was located)
morphed into the Dead Sea. This happened because Home lacked a past
previous to 1010 AD., and thus lacked a Crono to travel to the future
and defeat Lavos. When the destruction was ensured, the Time Crash was
mirrored in Home by pulling in the ruined timeline, centered on where
Chronopolis would have been. This caused fragments of the ruined future
to coalesce into the Tower of Geddon and surrounding structures.
One peculiar feature of the Dead Sea is that time appears to be frozen:
Waves are frozen in place, and books are suspended in midair. Certain
automatons and pieces of technology (the display on Lavos, the
elevator, etc.), on the other hand, appear to be animate. This
discrepancy can possibly be explained by Serge and his party's presence
in the Dead Sea. Serge's status as the arbiter allowed the Dead Sea's
Frozen Flame to connect with him, and create an environment suitable
for him and his party (the lack of such an environment being
responsable for the loss of Home's Lynx and the Acacia Dragoons). When
this environment was created, it also allowed the previously frozen
machines to become animate as well.
This begs the question of why the Dead Sea was frozen in the first
place. Its mirror, the Sea of Eden, is completely animate, so this
would imply that the Dead Sea would be so as well. There are two
possible explanations for this. One explanation is that FATE has
purposely kept it frozen to prevent the future there from spreading
into Home. Another possibility is that the formation of the Dead Sea
was so climactic and chaotic that the fabric of time was damaged in the
process, and time ceased to exist within it. This also raises the
question of if we can infer that since the Dead Sea represents the
future, is the future frozen and demolished as well? If time has
progressed since the Sea of Eden was sent back in time, the Dead Sea
should represent 11020 AD. It's quite possible that this means the
formation of the Dead Sea caused time to be frozen in Home from 2400
AD.
Residents:
Miguel - Leena's father, who was trapped in the Sea of Eden after a
storm threw his and Wazuki's boat off course while they were trying to
bring Serge to Guldove. When the dimensions split, FATE made him the
guardian of Home's Frozen Flame. He was eventually defeated by Serge's
party.
Analysis: There is a theory that Miguel is actually Crono.
Vaeran wrote:
"I actually posted this back before the crash (or the crash before
that), but I like to trot this theory out every now and then and see
what people think of it. Back when I played the game, this idea seemed
abundantly clear to me, but then talking to other people I found I was
the only one left with this impression. Specifically, that Miguel is
actually Crono.
There's no evidence in the game to prove this, but there's nothing to
disprove it either, and a lot of circumstantial evidence points towards
it being right. For example:
- Age. Crono was about 16 years old in 1000 A.D., and Chrono Cross
takes place in 1020. Miguel is clearly middle-aged, so that works out.
- Appearance. Miguel has red hair and lots of it, though he wears it in
a much tamer style than Crono did.
- Game mechanics. Miguel is ludicrously powerful, far more than a
simple islander should be. In addition, he's an innate White. Crono
could have been a Yellow in CC's system for all his lightning attacks,
but his most famous technique was Luminaire, which in CC is a White
element.
- Family. Leena looks a lot like what you'd expect Marle and Crono's
daughter to; she's basically Marle with Crono's coloring. In addition,
her name is very similar to Leene, a name from Marle's family. It's
true that we see her "grandmother" and "sister" in Arni village, but
they don't look a thing like her. After Miguel never returned from his
voyage with Wazuki, an old woman in the village probably took Leena in
as her own, as she no longer had any family.
The scene in which you meet Miguel is also very telling. He seems to
know a whole hell of a lot about the whole Lavos situation, for one
thing. And if you watch carefully, the little Crono shade is always
standing nearest him, and is standing directly over (behind) Miguel as
he dies.
But doesn't the Crono "ghost" mean that Crono's already dead, and thus
isn't Miguel? No; I don't believe the three childlike apparitions are
Crono, Marle and Lucca at all. While we're not clear on Marle's fate,
we know Lucca at least lived to her early 20s; that's when Lynx kidnaps
her (and presumably kills her when she refuses to help). If she died at
that age, her ghost wouldn't appear as a little child; ditto for the
other two.
(So if they're not ghosts, what are they? I think they're projections
of the Frozen Flame, which is the essence of Lavos. The game assumes
that your final party to fight Lavos in CT was Crono, Marle and Lucca,
and that they would therefore be the last thing it saw. While they're
not actually children, that's what Lavos saw them as; weak little human
children who shouldn't have been a threat.)
Anyway, so what the hell would Crono be doing all the way down in the
El Nido archipelago, anyway? Remember that Porre invaded and conquered
Guardia. Like I said, we don't know exactly what happened to Marle, but
it's pretty easy to guess: as then-queen of Guardia, she was either
killed, taken prisoner, or is in hiding somewhere, possibly organizing
a rebellion. Either way, not very pleasant. Knowing that things are
going to get bad real soon, she entreats Crono to escape with their
child. He gets as far away from Guardia as possible with Leena,
settling down to a quiet life in a fishing village and changing his
name.
So, maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Miguel could just be some simple
fisherman whose life ended up sucking beyond all reason. Or he could be
the hero from the previous game, imprisoned in an dead future that he
helped create, and forced to fight against the only people capable of
preventing it. I think it adds an extra level of emotion to think he's
the latter."
Further evidence that Crono may be alive:
ZeaLitY wrote:
"I wish to point out that if Lucca's burning is correctly dated at 1015
A.D., Crono may very well be alive. A child's drawing of him hangs in
the back passage way. Considering the age of children, it couldn't have
been done before the fall of Guardia."
Ybrik Metaknight wrote:
"Wow...good point. In fact, regardless of whether the date is correct,
Crono would almost have to be alive. Consider the following: Kid, in
1020, is 16. She is able to talk to Serge coherently enough that she
would have to be 6 or 7 at the youngest during the fire. Simple math
dictates that the fire would have to have occured in or after 1010. The
Fall of Guardia was in 1005.
Unless those were drawn in 1005, before the Fall of Guardia and Lucca
simply left them up for memory, which is unlikely, given the fact that
they did not appear to be framed or in any way protected from the
elements, and even the inside of a house is not away from the elements
enough to preserve something so unprotected for five years or longer.
(Yay for runon sentences...as I write this I'm in the newsroom for
TCU's newspaper...ironic...)
Also, since Robo and Ayla (and maybe Frog too? Can't quite remember)
are depicted in the pictures as well, perhaps they continued to travel
through time after the events of CT. Interesting how much a closer look
at such a small detail can reveal...
I think that Guardia XXXIII might have still been king (unless, of
course, he died because the Guardia line seems to have short life
spans), and so Crono and Marle very well could have been spared.
Indeed, they may not have even been in the area, or the era, at the
time of the fall.
Of course, if they were in the castle, they most likely would have been
executed, whether they were the rulers or not...see the Bolshevik
Revolution (and the mystery of Anastasia) for a historical parallel."
Ghosts of Crono, Marle, and Lucca: Three childlike ghosts appear,
resembling Crono, Marle, and Lucca. They accuse Serge of being
responsible for the destruction, and call him a murderer. Miguel
explains, "It's just a distant echo from ones far gone... It's just an
illusion."
Analysis: If Crono, Marle, and Lucca are dead, these may be their
actual ghosts. According to certain philosophies, ghosts appear as the
person appeared when they were happiest in life. This would explain why
they appear as children.
Dead Horse++ wrote:
"Speaking in metaphysical terms, many people theorize that when a
person dies, their spirit reverts to the form of when they were
happiest in life. After all, how many people want to spend their
eternity looking like a dried-up and wrinkly transparent prune?"
GreenGannon wrote:
"Naw, if they appeared when they were happiest, Crono would probably
appear as he did the minute he killed Lavos.
Marle, as the minute Crono came back.
Because wouldn't you be really damn happy if you save your planet from
certain destruction?"
Leebot wrote:
"Good point. I don't have firsthand knowledge of these philosophies,
but it may be that they appear as they were in the happiest period of
their lives, rather than at the happiest moment.
Counter-argument: But, isn't it more likely that the happiest period
for Crono and Marle would be after the defeat of Lavos and up through
their marriage? I can't say for Crono's childhood, but it was probably
not very happy for Marle.
Eh... looks like against wins."
Alternatively, they may be illusions conjured by the Planet in order to
convince Serge to save it. They may appear as Crono, Marle, and Lucca
because of their key role in saving the Planet from Lavos. Presenting
them as children may be to show innocence, and to further evoke Serge's
pity.
VII: The Darkness Beyond Time
Mechanics: Time-Error (When a traveler enters the Darkness Beyond Time,
they enter at the time* corresponding to the time-error of the portal
they used to access it. When an event occurs in the Darkness Beyond
Time, it affects only timelines which exist at time-errors after the
time* at which the event occurs)
Nature: The Darkness Beyond Time is the "garbage dump" for pieces of
timelines that have been cut off due to the effects of time travel.
Residents:
Time-Devourer - The fusion of Schala and Lavos. It aims to devour all
of the timeline.
Analysis: Each parent timeline most likely has its own, unique,
Darkness Beyond Time, and possibly its own Time Devourer within it.
Symmetry wrote:
"I assume there is a timeline where Crono & crew failed to defeat
Lavos.
Which brings up a problem, or what appears to be a problem. What
happens when the Time Devourer defeats Serge? If there is a timeline
for each possibility... this would seem to lead to the Time Devourer
being successful in its goal, for all it needs to do is fuse with
Schala and it will consume everything, right?
Perhaps the DBT functions under another set of rules wherein the
actions that take place there are "final"?"
GrayLensman wrote:
"The bad ending of Chrono Trigger addresses your first question. In
every time-line that existed before Crono defeated Lavos, the Day of
Lavos is not averted. 'But...the future refused to change.'
Secondly, the time-line of the Time Devourer in the DBT is completely
separate from that of Serge and company. A good analogy is that the
axis of the time-lines are perpendicular. Time does not pass in the DBT
relative to the outside world. The timeline where the TD is completed
only exists in the future of its own dimension, and the destruction of
the universe will not occur in Serge's own future."
Symmetry wrote:
"I'm not exactly sure I understand what you're saying and I'm not sure
I communicated properly what I wanted to say. Lemme try again.
Even if the two timelines are prependicular, at some point in the DBT
the Time Devourer will face Serge, correct? At that point, whenever it
happens, there is the possibility that Serge loses. If the Time
Devourer is successful in any timeline, this would mean the destruction
of the universe. Thus, if there exists a timeline for every possible
outcome, the destruction of the universe would be inevitable - if the
DBT follows the same rules as other timelines.
Does that make sense?"
Leebot wrote:
"I see what you're saying. The best explanation would be to say that
the Time Devourer can only "devour" one timeline. It lacks the power to
cross over to separate timelines (where Serge defeated it) and devour
them."
GrayLensman wrote:
"That isn't the case, because the Time Devourer is supposed to consume
all space and time.
Quote:
'Belthasar: The Devourer of Time is a new life-form... Born out of the
fusion of a life-form from this planet with Lavos, who nests on the far
side of the dimensional void. In the far-off future, when the fusion
ecomes complete, IT will awaken... Then, the Devourer of Time will
begin to consume all space-time continua... Despair and hatred... To
return all things to nothingness... That is what IT desires'.
This isn't too hard to understand, but I explained it rather poorly.
I'll try to be more sensible this time.
If the TD existed on the same space-time as Serge, in the time-line
where Serge had not yet defeated the TD (i.e. before the time crash),
the TD would have an unlimited duration of time to mature and thus
result in the destruction of all existence. If the TD experienced a
passage of time as time passed in normal space-time, the TD would have
appeared and destroyed all existence the moment Crono landed the death-
blow to Lavos.
Thus, we conclude that time does not pass relative to the outside
universe for the Time Devourer in the Darkness Beyond Time (the time
axis are perpendicular). This is similar to how Lavos' pocket dimension
behaves: Lavos experiences a passage of time, but not relative to the
outside world. From all time periods, Lavos appears to be in the same
state. This is explained in more detail in the Lavos topic.
In Chrono Trigger, Lavos is always fully mature. In the original
timeline, Lavos was mature because the Day of Lavos had occurred. We
can conjecture that the Reptite Dimension would exist while Lavos was
maturing within the pocket dimension. After Crono Started changing the
time-line, Lavos remained unchanged, regardless of the time-period.
Likewise, the Time Devourer exists within the Darkness Beyond Time,
which is a completely separate dimension from Home/Another. The TD
experiences time as we know it, but not relative to Serge's space-time.
At every instance on the TD's time-line in the DBT, it appears frozen
in time from any point on Serge's time-line. An unlimited time may pass
on Serge's time-line without the TD every appearing. The instant the TD
reaches the maturity on its own time-line, it will instantaneously be
manifested at all points on Serge's time-line—a scenario which never
comes to pass. Even in the bad ending of Chrono Cross, the TD simply
returns to its (relatively) frozen existence, and Serge may live out
his life in peace.
All possible time-lines may be represented by separate dimensions. We
don't know whether the DBT is common to all dimensions, or if there can
thus be more than one TD. It would seem that if there are multiple Time
Devourers, the destruction of the universe is a possibility. This is a
topic requiring further discussion."
Symmetry wrote:
"This is what I was trying to get at. If the TD wins in one, it seems
to effectively win in all. As you said, this hinges on whether or not
there are multiple Time Devourers."
chronotriggerfreak wrote:
"As far as I see it, all the 'Timelines' (Lavos, Keystone 1 and
Keystone 2) we actually play in are contained within one 'dimension.'
Home and Another are the only separate dimensions we actually see, and
we hear of the Reptite dimension that Dinopolis came from. The Darkness
Beyond Time exists essentially above and beyond all the other
dimensions, and as such it does not have any parallel dimensions in
which alternate events and results occur. Therefore, if the TD is
defeated there, that's it. It's gone."
Which, I think, is exactly the same as what everyone else has been
saying, but I'm just checking.
ZealitY wrote:
"That is mostly correct; however, probability negates that and suggests
that there is only one Darkness Beyond Time per dimension or dimensions
that exist as branches of one another. Surely, if infinite dimensions
exist, and one Time Devourer who could destroy them all could come
about, would not the universe already be destroyed? That is why I
believe there is one DBT per dimension or dimensional branch, and that
timelines change and exist within a parent dimension. Crono never split
the dimensions of the Keystone, or Another dimension, but simply
rewrote time. Only the act of saving Serge somehow caused the
dimensions to split, whereas the Reptite Dimension and Radical Dreamers
Dimension are separate possibilities completely which do not branch
directly from the others as Home World does from Another.
This is why I believe the word 'dimension' in the Chrono series should
be thought of as representing moreso tangible universes than just
possibilities."
Leebot wrote:
"These are the possibilities that I can see to explain this:
1) Belthasar was exaggerating slightly, or we're misinterpreting him;
the Time Devourer can only devour its own dimension.
2) The DBT is the same for all dimensions, and the TD only exists once
within it. Serge defeated the one TD, so that's that.
3) The DBT is unique to each dimension, and multiple TD's exist.
Through some quirk of fate/probability, there is a 100% chance that if
the TD is created, it will be destroyed.
4) The DBT is unique to each dimension, and multiple TD's exist. One of
them will eventually (along its own perpendicular time axis) devour
everything. However, the timelines we see are not yet at that "time,"
and will exist until that "time." Since some form of "time" must flow
for the TD, it can only devour timelines from a certain "time" on.
We're screwed, but we'll never know it.
5) The DBT is unique to each dimension, and multiple TD's exist. One
succeeded in devouring all of reality. This game is just what would
have happened if it hadn't.
Aside: The idea of a second, perpendicular time axis is the basis of my
Time-Error theory, which helps explain possibility 4. I explained it
here:
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=206
To me, theory 1 seems the most likely. The possibility that a TD or
similar beast could exist which would devour all dimensions and all
continua coupled with infinite possibilities would seem to prevent the
universe from existing at all. There must be some limit on its power."
ZealitY wrote:
"The limitation of the DBT per dimensions or directly branched
dimensions is evidence by the fact that otherwise, infinite Lavoses and
Schalas would be sent to the Darkness Beyond Time in conditions
favorable for forming Time Devourers, meaning an infinite number would
exist, and that eras from the Chrono series world float by in
transparent spheres while one is at the DBT.
Lastly, dimensions simply cannot be transcended; under the word
'universe' they are the highest categories, universes in themselves
which cannot be crossed or visited save by a Missing Piece responsible
for the branching of a dimension off another or by an Entity/planet
(the latter falls under the Time Crash, which itself is a total
enigma). I believe that this effectively limits Belthasar's statement
that the Time Devourer will consume all space-time; in all likelihood,
it can only consume what exists in its own dimension and universe, as
it seemingly has no way to access other dimensions. Additionally, it
would be consuming an infinite amount if it were to devourer every
dimension."
C: Appendix 1: Important Terms
-------------------------------
I. Time-Error
-Time-Error is essentially a secondary time axis, perpendicular to the
normal time axis.
-Only time portals and locations outside the axis of time (such as the
End of Time, the inside of the Black Omen, or the Darkness Beyond Time)
exhibit a flow of Time-Error.
-Time portals within the standard time axis flow through time and Time-
Error at equal rates.
Example: A time portal is created at time X and Time-Error 0. At time
X+T, the Time-Error of the Portal is T.
-The perception of time in locations outside the time axis is actually
a flow of Time-Error.
Example: A traveler enters the End of Time at Time-Error T. He spends a
length of time* U at the End of Time. He exits at Time-Error T+U.
-When a traveler enters a time portal, the Time-Error of the location
at which they exit is the same as the Time-Error at which they enter,
and the time at which they exit is determined by the Time-Error.
Example: Two time portals exist, one at time X at Time-Error 0, one at
time Y at Time-Error 0. A traveler enters the latter portal at time
Y+T. Since the Time-Error of this portal is T at time Y+T, the traveler
arrives at Time-Error T of the former portal. Since this Time-Error
corresponds to time X+T, the traveler arrives at time X+T.
-When a traveler travels to a time portal from a point outside the axis
of time, they arrive at the same Time-Error as the Time-Error from
which they left, and the corresponding time.
-When a time-traveling device (such as Epoch) is used to travel through
time from within the time axis, the Time-Error of one of the portals
existing at the exit point is recorded. The exit location can only be a
time when a portal exists. The recorded Time-Error is used to determine
the exact time of arrival.
Example: Two time portals exist, one at time X at Time-Error 0, one at
time Y at Time-Error 0. A time-traveling device is used to travel to
the former portal's time at time Y+T. The Time-Error of T is recorded
from the latter portal. The time-traveling device arrives at time X+T.
-When a time-traveling device is used to travel through time from a
point outside the time axis, it can only reach a time when some portal
exists. The exact time it arrives is determined by the Time-Error at
which it left.
*When using any relative time term as it relates to Time-Error, I
follow it with an asterisk (*).
II. QC-like
Refers to the Q Continuum of Star Trek. When lesser beings visit it,
they are unable to comprehend its true nature, so they see it as a
metaphor using something with which they're familiar (such as a way-
station on an abandoned highway or a battle site of the American Civil
War). The End of Time and The Bend of Time may work like this, too. The
rooms and ornaments travelers see probably don't actually exist there,
but are created by the travelers' minds as a metaphor for their
convenience.
D. Appendix 2: Reference Material
---------------------------------
I. Lavos Article
I received the following article on Lavos from Gray_Lensman, and have
used many of the theories in in this FAQ:
Lavos displays some strange behavior. If the travelers defeat the shell
and warp into the past, the shell is still defeated. A strange blue
aura surrounds Lavos during the Ocean Palace disaster and the final
battle. Lavos Core is able to open time warps to different eras. Lavos
also appears to have knowledge of the future; during the final battle
it emulate the fighting techniques of Guardian, which exists in 2300
AD. A possible explanation is that Lavos exists within a pocket
dimension or "time bubble" which transcends time.
When Lavos arrived on earth in 65 million BC, it created a pocket
dimension separate from normal space time. A wormhole connects the
pocket dimension to every time period.
An observation made by chronotriggerfreak is that the wormhole
connecting the pocket dimension to space-time would be governed by the
same axiom governing Gates, namely: "Determining the Destination of
Time Travel via Epoch and Time Gates". Because of this, the rate of
time must be the same in the pocket dimension as the outside world.
Lavos' time axis would be perpendicular to the normal flow of time.
Lavos ages within the pocket dimension at a normal rate, but it appears
to be the same from any given time period. For example, if Lavos had
existed within the pocket dimension for six million years, it would
appear to be six million years old from every time period.
Anything done to Lavos from one time period, such as defeating the
core, would be visible from all other time periods as well. Therefore,
if the shell is defeated, Lavos appears to have no shell from each time
period.
Lavos is not actually physically present within the earth. The wormhole
aperture is located at the earth's core, giving Lavos access to the
planet's energy and lifeforms. During the Day of Lavos or the Ocean
Palace disaster, the wormhole ascends to the surface, causing a
dimensional disturbance. The wormhole offers an uninterrupted view of
the pocket dimension, creating the illusion of Lavos' presence.
If one approaches Lavos, and passes through the wormhole, the interior
of the pocket dimension has appearance of the blue aura which surrounds
Lavos. During the Ocean Palace Disaster, Queen Zeal, Magus and the
others warp into the pocket dimension. During the final battle, Crono
battles Lavos in the pocket dimension.
Lavos core is able to open time warps to different times, because it is
connected to those eras through the wormhole. The aperture of the
wormhole gives a distorted view of the time period being accessed.
Lavos is also able to survey the entire timeline and would have
knowledge of, for example, Guardian's fighting style.
After Lavos dies, the pocket dimension no longer connects to space-
time, but the past Lavos exists on a separate timeline.
As before, the only problem with the Pocket Dimension is that Lavos
shell is always intact during the Ocean Palace disaster.
II. Links
The following is a list of webpages I used as resources in writing this
FAQ. This is not intended to be a comprehensive listing of applicable
sites.
www.chronocompendium.com
The front page of the Chrono Compendium, where almost all of the
theories here were hammered out.
www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Articles
The Articles section of the Chrono Compendium. The Articles, "Salt for
the Dead Sea," and "On The Axioms And Corollaries Governing Temporal
Transforms" are particularly applicable to this FAQ.
www.chronocompendium.com/Forums
The Chrono Compendium forums.
boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=24058
The GameFAQs Chrono Cross message board.
E. Credits
----------
The following people have either been quoted in this FAQ or assisted in
other ways:
3Fangs 3Petals 3Feathers
Chrono'99
chronotriggerfreak
Daggart
Dead Horse++
doulifee
Epsilon
Excalibur
Faulce
Gray_Lensman
GreenGannon
Ingonyama
RabidTurtle
Ramsus
Symmetry
V_Translanka
Vaeran
XchrononetX
YbrikMetaknight
ZeaLitY
F. Disclaimer
-------------
All trademarks and copyrights contained in this document are owned by
their respective trademark and copyright holders, excepting this guide
itself, which
is Copyright 2004 Bryan Gillis. This guide may be reproduced for
personal, private use, and may not be sold for profit without my
expressed, written
consent. Any website may use this guide without asking me as long as
they follow the following guidelines:
1. The Website must not use pop-up ads or pop-up generators.
2. This guide must be used completely unchanged.
3. Nowhere may the Website claim any form of ownership of this guide.
4. The Website must be completely free.
In addition, any published work that references material from this
guide must specifically credit me, and include a link to this guide.
