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| #Post#: 671-------------------------------------------------- | |
| My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: jayceedee Date: October 17, 2022, 11:05 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Hi! | |
| Today i played a ranked game, and i encountered the player | |
| "Fastmotion". I observed what I thought was pretty weird | |
| gameplay, so i engaged in a discussion with him. He directed me | |
| to this forum, to have a discussion here, so that's what i'm | |
| doing. | |
| I would like to preface my post with a bit of an explaination of | |
| my attitude towards the game, so you can understand where i'm | |
| coming from. | |
| I started this game with a friend for fun, ignorant of stats, | |
| competitive play etc. I found my way to clans eventually, and | |
| discovered clanbattles, which transformed the game for me since | |
| i really like communicating and teamplay. | |
| After a while in 2-3 bad clans, suffering quite a bit in poorly | |
| organised and poorly lead clan battles, i eventually founded my | |
| own clan, with the goal of reaching typhoon league instead of | |
| struggling to reach storm, and after recruiting a couple other | |
| people in a similar situation. The clan did pretty well, and we | |
| managed to get to typhoon 5 seasons in a row, slowly climbing | |
| from the lower end of typhoon to the higher end of it. | |
| In the beginning, i was utterly clueless on how to do | |
| clanbattles. But i was able to recruit someone from the start | |
| who helped me out, who taught me tactics and taught me how to | |
| lead clan battles. But i never rested. I always looked for an | |
| advantage, i always tried to optimize what ships we bring, where | |
| we send them on each map, and i tried to call strategies during | |
| the battle that would win us as many games as possible. | |
| I also tried to ensure that every player is in the best possible | |
| ship, and if a player is not doing well in a certain ship, we | |
| tried to find a different ship for him that also fits our | |
| strategy and composition. | |
| So i transformed from someone not focussed on stats to someone | |
| quite obsessed with stats, not just for randoms, but also very | |
| much so for clan battles. | |
| By now we have custom build software automatically collecting | |
| data, turning it into interactive dashboards showing us in | |
| detail what maps we win and loose the most, which ships produce | |
| the best winrate, which player has the best positive and | |
| negative influence on a clan battle team, broken down by ship | |
| classes and individual ships. | |
| I'm able to absolutely drown people in data, and quite often | |
| when i see a pattern in the data, or a pattern in the game, and | |
| i'm able to verify it in the other domain, i can reach very | |
| solid and accurate conclusions that accurately predict what will | |
| happen. This has no doubt helped us achieve much greater success | |
| in clan battles than we should have had, given the quality of | |
| players we had. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/XNQpAMU.png[/img] | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/966939J.png[/img] | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/Omla61f.png[/img] | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/7OCRSsH.png[/img] | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/bYbjr24.png[/img] | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/XgzVrQz.png[/img] | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/xoYaQNZ.png[/img] | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/hXwBT0b.png[/img] | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/lQHPKic.png[/img] | |
| I believe that stats express your ability to deliver game | |
| impact. While i fully agree that a small sample size of games | |
| are pretty meaningless, very good players are able to deliver | |
| consistent performance even across a small sample size, and as | |
| soon as you look at dozens or hundreds of games, stats | |
| accurately display ability if you filter out the obvious caveat | |
| of division play boosting winrate. | |
| Needless to say, i disagree with the "stats don't matter" slogan | |
| you put on this forum. I think this game is a very long, drawn | |
| out intelligence test, not unlike an IQ test. The two caveats | |
| are: Due to it being drawn out, you require a lot of patience, | |
| so intelligent but impatient people will do badly, and secondly | |
| knowledge helps, so if you're lazy about memorizing stuff, | |
| you'll suffer as well. But still, it's an abstract problem, and | |
| that requires abstract problem solving ability, which is the | |
| definition of intelligence. So if you have good stats, that | |
| shows that you're patient, knowledgable, and have above average | |
| intelligence. So to me, stats matter a lot. | |
| Coming back to the game i played with "Fastmotion", i run | |
| matchmaking monitor to check out what kind of match i got. Why | |
| do i do that? Well, imagine i'm in a DD, and i have a couple of | |
| cruisers behind me. And they all have really bad looking stats. | |
| I'll be more careful in spotting the enemy DD, and not expect | |
| much assistance. | |
| Or imagine i spawn in a DD in the middle of the map, and i have | |
| a choice of going to the left or to the right flank, and there | |
| is already a DD on both of those flanks. I'll compare the stats | |
| of these DD players, and go help the one with the worst stats. | |
| Why do i do this? I believe it increases my chances of winning. | |
| Simple as that. | |
| Coming back to the game i played with Fastmotion, i run | |
| matchmaking monitor to gain more information on my team and the | |
| enemy team. | |
| Why do i do that? Well imagine there are 3 DDs in a game, and | |
| i'm one of them, and i spawn in the middle. Do i go left? Do i | |
| go right? I will check the stats of my fellow DDs, and support | |
| the weaker player. Similarly i use to gauge if i can rely on | |
| cruiser support when engaging superior DDs, etc. | |
| At the start of the game, the stats of Fastmotion caught my eye, | |
| since they're quite obviously bad: | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/sy2Fxb2.png[/img] | |
| I also noticed Fastmotion has -5 Karma, which means 5 people | |
| took the time to go to wows-karma.com and write a review of | |
| their experience with Fastmotion in their team, and all 5 were | |
| negative: | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/kqJLSAh.png[/img] | |
| Now to the game in detail. | |
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0HknKJ7Q4c | |
| Fastmotion is in a Gearing. | |
| I am in a Kleber. | |
| I didn't save a screenshot, but before every game i do a "threat | |
| assessment". My threat assessment for this game was: | |
| - Halland outspots me | |
| - Marceau outspots me | |
| - Stalin has 12km radar | |
| - Annapolis has 10km radar + burst fire mode | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/IZqkrEQ.png[/img] | |
| 1 | |
| As you can see, i spawned close to C, and Fastmotion in the | |
| Gearing spawned close to B. | |
| If there is no good reason to swap with my fellow DD, i usually | |
| go to the flank i spawned at. | |
| On this map specifically, and in Kleber, i usually try to use my | |
| speedboost to challenge C cap before the enemy radar cruisers | |
| are in position, from experience the timing is usually favorable | |
| for this early game. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/xjK00t0.png[/img] | |
| 2 | |
| So i head to C. So does Fastmotion, ignoring the B cap. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/w2RZ7Tf.png[/img] | |
| 3 | |
| Naturally trying to play for a win, i replace Fastmotion at the | |
| B flank and swap since i feel like he's forcing me to do that if | |
| i want to get a win out of this game. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/ZMeCwrT.png[/img] | |
| 4 | |
| Now Fastmotion is at C, but what is he doing there? | |
| - He's not able to effectively torpedo anything, the islands are | |
| in the way. | |
| - He can't capture the cap, there are 2 scary DDs on the loose | |
| and 2 radars unspotted. | |
| No, what he's doing is spotting ... a Hindenburg. The closest | |
| friendly ship is a good 16km away, so the Hindenburg, a dodgy | |
| kiting cruiser, has all the time in the world to turn out and | |
| basically take zero damage. This spotting, which Fastmotion | |
| highlights in the chat, is not very useful whatsoever. | |
| Meanwhile, i capture B in my Kleber. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/6nvxPKy.png[/img] | |
| 5 | |
| The enemy Stalin gets spotted, he's exactly where a Stalin | |
| usually ends up: Behind the big rock, ready to radar C, denying | |
| the cap. Fastmotion is dropping torps on the island corner, but | |
| they will only hit if the Stalin moves forward a lot, and | |
| they're incredibly unlikely to hit. I don't see Fastmotion | |
| providing any benefit to the team in this position. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/E39S9ql.png[/img] | |
| 6 | |
| Now at B cap, what i was afraid of happens: I get outspotted by | |
| an enemy DD on the flank. Luckily it is a Marceau, and he | |
| speedboosts into me so hard that he covers the 800m concealment | |
| difference between us so fast that i get meaninful damage on him | |
| with my reload booster, and since i was ready for this | |
| theoretically very unfavorable engagement for me, i turn out | |
| immediately and minimize damage, so it is a decent trade. The | |
| Halland however is also there, zoning me out hard since the | |
| Halland outspots me by 1.8km and i realise i can do nothing on | |
| this flank. | |
| Here Fastmotion in the Gearing could have made a great | |
| difference, spotting the DDs for me and the Conde continously | |
| with little danger to himself, we could have dealt with the DDs | |
| effectively. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/uiqe0TW.png[/img] | |
| 7 | |
| Here we see Fastmotion pushing into the C cap, despite the enemy | |
| Annapolis still being unspotted. Remember my threat assessment | |
| from before? Fastmotion clearly doesn't do that. There is a real | |
| risk here that the Annapolis pops out of nowhere, radars, and | |
| burst-fires him to death. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/YD2aPSR.png[/img] | |
| 8 | |
| Fastmotion is capping here now, but the Annapolis is still | |
| unaccounted for. He's gambling with his life right now. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/yZ1vWq2.png[/img] | |
| 9 | |
| After the cap, Fastmotion smoked our Stalin, and is now behind | |
| our battleships, heavy cruisers, everyone. He's the furthest | |
| ship from the enemy, but has by far the best concealment. He's | |
| doing the opposite of spotting, and the value of the smoke to a | |
| full health Stalingrad is very questionable. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/igtvPB4.png[/img] | |
| 10 | |
| Here you can see a Brawl involving the enemy Incomparable on one | |
| side, and me (Kleber) + Stalin and Smolenks on the other side. I | |
| already torpedoed the Incomparable, and the Stalin and Smolensk | |
| are happily farming him. The Incomparable will die for sure. | |
| Yet what is Fastmotion in the Gearing doing? He's lining up | |
| torpedos on the Incomparable, with very low chance of hitting | |
| once again. | |
| Meanwhile, remind you, the enemy DDs have been unchecked for | |
| several minutes, and as a response our Conde has kited all the | |
| way to J line to avoid torpedos. In fact the Conde pinged the | |
| 1-2 line and requested spotting multiple times, requests i | |
| noticed in my Kleber, but i am unable to outspot the enemy DDs. | |
| This is a job only Fastmotion in his Gearing could do. | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/eWPzdky.png[/img] | |
| 11 | |
| Now we see the enemy DDs capping B, and Fastmotion in his | |
| Gearing is still out of position, still trying to torpedo an | |
| Incomparable that is dead already since 3 people are focussing | |
| him. | |
| ------- | |
| Overall i think Fastmotion was not useful to the team at all, | |
| missplayed and didn't use the Gearing to it's strengths in the | |
| match at all. We won since the enemy was even worse, not due to | |
| his performance. | |
| Change my mind! | |
| #Post#: 673-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: wows Date: October 17, 2022, 11:43 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=jayceedee link=topic=121.msg671#msg671 | |
| date=1666022759] | |
| I'm able to absolutely drown people in data, and quite often | |
| when i see a pattern in the data, or a pattern in the game, and | |
| i'm able to verify it in the other domain, i can reach very | |
| solid and accurate conclusions that accurately predict what will | |
| happen. [/quote] | |
| Hi, | |
| first feel free and natural and everything, we have never | |
| treated any debaters by suggesting them some fear or other | |
| obstacles. Feel free what you think, even if it is rapist, | |
| sadist, racist, and we will answer and if needed relocate your | |
| posts to the appropriate folders. It is fine* if you say that | |
| you ant to **** all black people, all kill all subs player, we | |
| wil lhandle such posts, don't worry. | |
| I don't skip any arguments/opinions so all gets answered. | |
| All i ask from you and everyone is that can we agree to obey | |
| resonable ethics/rules. We don't title others as bad or good, | |
| black or white, etc, okay? We also use reasonable rules you see | |
| in courts, in debating sport, etc. For example, we don't ever | |
| call you to be idiot, or never ignore your arguments, etc. We | |
| don't have all such rules written clearley yet in our rules, but | |
| we have a simple hint: be a good monk, be a good lawyer. That | |
| should give you a hinto of the mentality, but if it doesn't then | |
| wewill try to explain. | |
| I will next respond to your opinions. | |
| -- the above ***-phrases are not allowed and this is an example | |
| of a "rule violations", which i made, we are not allowed to | |
| produce thise stars. I don't actually know what those starts | |
| above meant, but use you imagination. compared to the official | |
| Wows forum it is not allowed to produse those stars, not allowed | |
| to to any kind of racism, it is fine to talk about moderations | |
| and everything. The main rule is that you agree to be adequate | |
| and don't pot any emoticons/spam, just act black-white like | |
| people in sicence/court do. We have a simple suggestions: be a | |
| good monk (high ethics) and a good lawyer (don't make debating | |
| mistakes). I will respond to you shortly and we can start a | |
| debate. We don't post links usually, we don't trust wikipedias. | |
| I think you have got all the needed info now. | |
| I wil respond very soon. | |
| #Post#: 676-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: wows Date: October 18, 2022, 3:18 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Let's first create a shorter version of your post. | |
| Title: My opinion about a battle | |
| 1. Fastmotion performed badly in battle in your opinion. | |
| 2. Your playing history, clans etc. | |
| 3. You are obsessed with stats. | |
| 4. You have custom build software for stats. | |
| 5. Lot of illustrations about your custom software. | |
| 6. Stats=patient=knowledgable, IQ, etc. Good PLayer=Good Long | |
| Term Stats. | |
| 7. You act in battles by the Stats monitor data. For example | |
| helping those who have weaker Stats. | |
| 8. You describe a battle. | |
| 9. Fastmotion's Karma nad Stats are Bad. | |
| 10. You spawned close to the easy cap C but still went to the | |
| difficult cap B like Fastmotion. | |
| 11. You say your goal is to win. | |
| 12. You change your mind and stop going to the difficult area | |
| and you go to the easy area. | |
| 13. Fastmotion spots enemies in the difficult area and you say | |
| that it is a useless act. | |
| 14. You getspotted at the easy area and think that Fastmotion is | |
| responsible for that. | |
| 15. Fastmotion caps the difficult area successfully but it is | |
| risky because some radar cruisers have not been spotted yet. | |
| 16. Fastmotion smoked cruisers and become temporarily positioned | |
| behind the smoke. | |
| 17. Fastmotion doesn't spot at that moment for the alley french | |
| DD. | |
| 18. Fastmotion arrives to spot but torpedos enemies that will | |
| die anyway by other's fire. | |
| So, now it is easier to reply to you. | |
| We can make points 8-18 even shorter: Your description of a | |
| battle. We can totally ignore your illustrations. Important | |
| points say, that you like Stats and you think that Stats are IQ | |
| and more. Shortly so. | |
| #Post#: 677-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: wows Date: October 18, 2022, 3:32 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| Title: My opinion about a battle | |
| 1. Fastmotion performed badly in battle in your opinion. | |
| .. | |
| We can make points 8-18 even shorter: Your description of a | |
| battle. | |
| [/quote] | |
| I understand that your overall goal is to analize a battle. I | |
| think it is not a personal attack but quite personal if one | |
| cares how someone performed in a battle. And the battle wasn't | |
| anything special, i just did some difficult tasks well and the | |
| team won i guess. So, i wasn't useless and not the best, i am | |
| amazed that someone feels a need to analize such average battle. | |
| But, why not to analize, i personally don't do it but i agree | |
| that even such battle analizing can be be useful. | |
| You say in point 1 that i performed badly. But i completed the | |
| most riskiest tast by capping the so called Difficult cap area. | |
| Also i spotted enemies and probably i made some damage too. Why | |
| do you think that such accomplishments are Bad? Your easy | |
| capping wasn't anything better and i understand that you changed | |
| your mind and direction in the beginning of the battle which i | |
| call as time wasting. Which TOP-positions we got in that battle? | |
| I beleive middle positions. So, what is so bad in such results? | |
| Somewhere you mention that you act by stats but this time you | |
| just changed your mind in the battle and went to the easy area | |
| no matter which Data you have. That proves that you don't act by | |
| your Data so simply. Don't you agree? | |
| #Post#: 678-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: wows Date: October 18, 2022, 3:35 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 9. Fastmotion's Karma nad Stats are Bad. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Can you describe how Karma Soup is relevant and how it helped | |
| your decicions in the battle? | |
| I use the term Soup because it contains so many contradictive | |
| things, like if someone likes your sense of humor then your get | |
| a positive Karma and if you play Subs then you get negative- al | |
| lthat together makes an inadequate number. | |
| #Post#: 679-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: wows Date: October 18, 2022, 6:35 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=jayceedee link=topic=121.msg671#msg671 | |
| date=1666022759] | |
| At the start of the game, the stats of Fastmotion caught my eye, | |
| since they're quite obviously bad: | |
| [IMG] | |
| https://i.imgur.com/sy2Fxb2.png[/img] | |
| [/quote] | |
| I understand that your software shows Random Battles Data in | |
| Rankeds game mode. In Randoms the Gearing on the picture has 50% | |
| WR but in Rankeds it has around 40%, those numbers are quite | |
| different, don't you agree? First question is, do you consider | |
| your software adequate if it shows data from wrong game mode? | |
| #Post#: 680-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: wows Date: October 18, 2022, 7:35 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=jayceedee link=topic=121.msg671#msg671 | |
| date=1666022759] | |
| I believe that stats express your ability to deliver game | |
| impact. While i fully agree that a small sample size of games | |
| are pretty meaningless, very good players are able to deliver | |
| consistent performance even across a small sample size, and as | |
| soon as you look at dozens or hundreds of games, stats | |
| accurately display ability if you filter out the obvious caveat | |
| of division play boosting winrate. | |
| Needless to say, i disagree with the "stats don't matter" slogan | |
| you put on this forum. I think this game is a very long, drawn | |
| out intelligence test, not unlike an IQ test. The two caveats | |
| are: Due to it being drawn out, you require a lot of patience, | |
| so intelligent but impatient people will do badly, and secondly | |
| knowledge helps, so if you're lazy about memorizing stuff, | |
| you'll suffer as well. But still, it's an abstract problem, and | |
| that requires abstract problem solving ability, which is the | |
| definition of intelligence. So if you have good stats, that | |
| shows that you're patient, knowledgable, and have above average | |
| intelligence. So to me, stats matter a lot. | |
| [/quote] | |
| We can talk longer and separately about the stats topic because | |
| seems liek you made many statements about it. | |
| Let's start fro mthe first statement then. | |
| [quote] | |
| I believe that stats express your ability to deliver game | |
| impact. | |
| [/quote] | |
| What do you mean by the word Express? I understand that it is a | |
| weak word and far from the word Proof. Also, i think it is a | |
| subjective word because it is just your subjective opinion that | |
| soemthing can be used as Expressing something in a way. Others | |
| think that the moon phase express and affects things, you | |
| believe that Stats express in some part sometimes something. So, | |
| i am not sure what exactly you mean that stats reflect something | |
| but if you believe it then go ahead but don't expect others to | |
| have the same faith as you. | |
| No matter what you mean by the Expressing term it sounds like | |
| "stats can be used to predict". Do you agree that this is your | |
| actual thought behind the sentence? For example, if my Random | |
| Stats are 40% then you would predict that i don't get into Gold | |
| League and that i would die in next battle without completing | |
| any difficult tasks. Right? Well, i completed the most difficult | |
| tasks i nthe battle, and, i am in the Gold league, so the | |
| prediction based on Randoms Stats were not accurate. And such | |
| counter-example proves that predictions are gambling, sometimes | |
| they are right, sometimes wrong. You can rephrase your statement | |
| that most of the times prediction is right but then you have to | |
| phrase it and prove it but it would be an offtopic because we | |
| talk here about 1 specific battle, and i don't see wise to use | |
| inadequate tools that predict right let's say 70% of time. It is | |
| like gambling, and unneccassary noice. If you play Randoms like | |
| most people then those are even more chaotic than Rankeds and | |
| predictions are totally inadequate in my opinion. So, i disagree | |
| with your belief and provided as a proof a counter example. | |
| You seem to say that Stats show the ability. Stats=RandomsWR for | |
| most and even your post proves that equation, so you say that an | |
| average number shows some kind of ability. I don't think that | |
| averages show such thing but minimum and maximum vlaues do. For | |
| example, if someone has an average value of 5/10 but | |
| occasionally gets 10 then his abilities are 10 and the average 5 | |
| doesn't hint anything near 10. That debunks your equation | |
| "Stats=abilities". | |
| I don't know what do you mean by the word Good when you say | |
| "very good players". We have proved in earlier debates that Wows | |
| community uses lowercase word "good" to players whose RandomsWR | |
| is around 55% even if they lose 20 battles in a row today | |
| evening and perform those at WR=30%. So the term Good is | |
| inadequate, right, because it calls 30% performance Good and | |
| also 55% perfomance good. I don't think that people should have | |
| the same goals like you or a wish to be very good, specially in | |
| entertainment, and i don't support inadequate terms like Good. | |
| And my overall response to that "very Good player" idea is that | |
| it is an irrelevant topic in this battle analizes. My opinion is | |
| that the word Good is used racist way in the community. People | |
| are obsessed with stats and treat stats as a racist aspect, like | |
| skin color for example, and use it as an argument to prove their | |
| opinions. For example, if you start to lose a debate then you | |
| say that i should stop talking because i have bad skin color and | |
| bad highschool stats. | |
| #Post#: 681-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: wows Date: October 18, 2022, 8:08 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=jayceedee link=topic=121.msg671#msg671 | |
| date=1666022759] | |
| Needless to say, i disagree with the "stats don't matter" slogan | |
| you put on this forum. I think this game is a very long, drawn | |
| out intelligence test, not unlike an IQ test. The two caveats | |
| are: Due to it being drawn out, you require a lot of patience, | |
| so intelligent but impatient people will do badly, and secondly | |
| knowledge helps, so if you're lazy about memorizing stuff, | |
| you'll suffer as well. But still, it's an abstract problem, and | |
| that requires abstract problem solving ability, which is the | |
| definition of intelligence. So if you have good stats, that | |
| shows that you're patient, knowledgable, and have above average | |
| intelligence. So to me, stats matter a lot. | |
| [/quote] | |
| You disagree that stats don't matter. But go ahead and provide | |
| your proof. Plenty of people have failed to do it. We can | |
| perform that debate in another topic later, but let's start here | |
| first and see how they matter. | |
| I understand that you say that the game lasts long time but IQ | |
| test doesn't. What do you mean? A battle lasts 5 minutes but the | |
| IQ test 1 hour. I don't think that the drawn out idea is | |
| correct. But i think you want to say that it takes patience and | |
| other such mental states to produce high overall Stats over | |
| years. If so, then first IQ test has it's own aspects and is not | |
| easier or worse than keeping overall high stats. Like apples and | |
| oranges are different, there is no need to say that IQ test is | |
| worse or anything. Everything requires some so called abilities, | |
| but it is not wise to say which abilities are more important. I | |
| think most people agree that a high IQ benefits in life a lot | |
| more than your mentioned "average intelligence" and an | |
| entertainment game stats. I understand that you compared IQ test | |
| with entertainment game stats just for an example and to help to | |
| define what the game stats require and is made of. I agree of | |
| course that the abilities behind an IQ test are used in many | |
| areas of life, including entertainment games and elsewhere. But | |
| i don't agree that IQ test has somehow less valueable abilities | |
| behind it, or that entertainments stats require more than IQ | |
| test. Obviously an entertainment games don't make generally | |
| people better in IQ tests. But having high IQ values doesn't | |
| have to affect entertainment much because games doesn't have | |
| much intellectual things. For example football and Wows are very | |
| simple games and the main skillset can be written with few | |
| lines. Also, high IQ values doesn't have to affect entertainment | |
| much because people take entertainment with fun, as it should | |
| be, and their emotions and instincts take over the performance. | |
| Just like in combat-sports, like boxing, there is almost nothing | |
| to do with IQ. | |
| -- | |
| I udnerstand that you define that Intelligence means some kind | |
| of problem solving ability. | |
| Well, such definition doesn't tell much. I have 2-3 definitions | |
| which differ from you and wiki. | |
| Highly intelligent means Talented or Very Good, just Intelligent | |
| means good. | |
| One is the overall intelligence and that contains fragments of | |
| some abilities in society. Mainly social skills and basic math | |
| make up an intelligent person, also clothes that it wears for | |
| example. | |
| A businessman wearing a suit is intelligent person. | |
| IQ test measuers mostly basic math skills, some grammar skills, | |
| and you can call it as IQ-test based intellgience. It has picked | |
| up math, gramamr, and ca 5 more fields and makes an average on | |
| them. Some who are very strong in math and very weak in grammar | |
| gets an average results from IQ test and then the test is | |
| inadequate for them. | |
| And the 3rd one is special domain intelligence which is specific | |
| in every science/domain/field. For example in math science one | |
| is intelligent if he demonstrate well in the math things, but | |
| also in the so called natural sciences one can be intelligent. | |
| In ballrom dancing one in talented if she has a long neck and | |
| demonstrates well. | |
| You seem to be talking about Wows-intelligence and you say that | |
| it requires long term mental abilities liek being patient etc. | |
| Some people can concentrate every evening 1 hour but not at | |
| other times and not longer and that produces the long term high | |
| results, right? Others have al lthe time the needed mental | |
| states. And some can demonstrate those mental abilities only 1 | |
| day when the Wows rankeds starts. And some intentionally don't | |
| chose to turn on those mental states, they prefere to have fun | |
| etc, and don't have any Stats goals. There are many other | |
| variables, like internet quality, luck, etc, which also affects. | |
| All those variables and goals don't prove that someone is | |
| mentally somehow more advanced. No, that person maybe suffering | |
| and stressed all the time with his high stats, so as a human he | |
| is not advanced mentally. Also Stats!=Skills, i means stats | |
| don't equal to Skills, because al lthe examples and variables | |
| that i just gave. One can demonstrate and prove knowledge by | |
| doing once a year 1 exam. There doesn't exist some kind of | |
| "persistent knowledge", if one passes wel lin an Exam, or, in a | |
| Gold league, then that proves already that there is all | |
| Knowledge, Skills etc existing, just like if you know that 2+2 | |
| is 4 then you know it always, it doesn't fade away. | |
| I don't think that it is normal to be obsessed in entertainment | |
| stats and from my experience Wows community has become racist | |
| because of Stats. As i explained, i don't think that Stats makes | |
| anyone better or smarter, and i don't think it reflects any | |
| serious abilities. | |
| #Post#: 682-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: jayceedee Date: October 18, 2022, 9:13 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| Let's first create a shorter version of your post. | |
| Title: My opinion about a battle | |
| 1. Fastmotion performed badly in battle in your opinion. | |
| 2. Your playing history, clans etc. | |
| 3. You are obsessed with stats. | |
| 4. You have custom build software for stats. | |
| 5. Lot of illustrations about your custom software. | |
| [/quote] | |
| yes | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 6. Stats=patient=knowledgable, IQ, etc. Good PLayer=Good Long | |
| Term Stats. | |
| [/quote] | |
| You're being too inaccurate here in your language, but i think | |
| your intention is correct. | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 7. You act in battles by the Stats monitor data. For example | |
| helping those who have weaker Stats. | |
| 8. You describe a battle. | |
| 9. Fastmotion's Karma nad Stats are Bad. | |
| [/quote] | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 10. You spawned close to the easy cap C but still went to the | |
| difficult cap B like Fastmotion. | |
| [/quote] | |
| The "difficulty" of the cap also depends on the ship you are in. | |
| For me, in the Kleber, C is easy at the start, because i can | |
| exploit my speed. Mid-Late game it is hard to impossible, | |
| because i rely on enemy mistakes i can exploit and on my team | |
| spotting to get anything done against DDs which outspot me + | |
| radar. | |
| B is clearly easy for the Gearing, since Gearing can outspot and | |
| easily effectively torp due to open water in 1-2-3 line and lack | |
| of island. | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 11. You say your goal is to win. | |
| [/quote] | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 12. You change your mind and stop going to the difficult area | |
| and you go to the easy area. | |
| [/quote] | |
| I disagree with the lables "difficult" and "easy" since they're | |
| inaccurate. I just described why above. | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 13. Fastmotion spots enemies in the difficult area and you say | |
| that it is a useless act. | |
| [/quote] | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 14. You getspotted at the easy area and think that Fastmotion is | |
| responsible for that. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Not quite accurate, Fastmotion being the only spotting tool that | |
| could viably spot the enemy DD means my best action in the game | |
| became doing the spotting myself, but due to my ship being | |
| unsuitable it's suboptimal play, but i feel like, yes, i am | |
| forced to do so by Fastmotion. | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 15. Fastmotion caps the difficult area successfully but it is | |
| risky because some radar cruisers have not been spotted yet. | |
| 16. Fastmotion smoked cruisers and become temporarily positioned | |
| behind the smoke. | |
| 17. Fastmotion doesn't spot at that moment for the alley french | |
| DD. | |
| 18. Fastmotion arrives to spot but torpedos enemies that will | |
| die anyway by other's fire. | |
| [/quote] | |
| correct | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| Your description of a battle. We can totally ignore your | |
| illustrations. | |
| [/quote] | |
| I feel like you're abandoning facts and numbers and you're | |
| venturing into a distored version of reality with ignoring those | |
| illustrations. | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| Important points say, that you like Stats and you think that | |
| Stats are IQ and more. Shortly so. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Stats are a useful and meaningful tool for evaluation. Above | |
| average stats require above average IQ, but additionally | |
| patience and, to a lesser extend, knowledge. | |
| #Post#: 683-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: My Encounter with Fastmotion | |
| By: wows Date: October 18, 2022, 9:30 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=jayceedee link=topic=121.msg682#msg682 | |
| date=1666102438] | |
| [quote author=wows link=topic=121.msg676#msg676 date=1666081129] | |
| 6. Stats=patient=knowledgable, IQ, etc. Good PLayer=Good Long | |
| Term Stats. | |
| [/quote] | |
| You're being too inaccurate here in your language, but i think | |
| your intention is correct. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Go ahead and provide better equations. I think equations are a | |
| good method. Don't justsay that iam wrong, or bad, or anything, | |
| but try to prove that i am wrong, and show how is right. Provide | |
| better equations, we have done the equation-method i nearlier | |
| debates very well. | |
| Seems like you say that you generally agree. Well, this is | |
| enough, it is fine if some details are little bit inaccurate. | |
| Also, i suggest that do many smaller posts in a row. Don't make | |
| huge mammoth posts. I know that other forums don't like such | |
| multiposts behaviour but we like it and we have a very good | |
| reasons for every rule we have. Just quote this post and provide | |
| equations. Very likely i will extract into separate topics some | |
| of the claims in this mammoth post. But, let' see later that. | |
| Be adequate, and don't say that others are wrong if you don't | |
| provide evidence for that. If i failed with explanations or | |
| anything, then show and i replay/correct. | |
| Our well nkown equations from your community has been as i | |
| remember: | |
| Stats=RandomsWR=Knowledge=Skills. | |
| Good = RandomsWR55 | |
| I think your "Good PLayer" is the same famous "RandomsWR55" and | |
| your patience or mental abilities fits into the RandomsWR term. | |
| So, the equations in my opinion are generally correct. | |
| You can interpret the equations as: a good player is the one | |
| whose RandomsWR is 55% and such procentage proves that the | |
| person has all kind of things like Kowledge, Skills, and right | |
| opinions. | |
| ***************************************************** | |
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