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| #Post#: 30067-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 3, 2025, 8:33 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| But what does our victory look like? It is not a world where | |
| there is no pain and sadness. A world where there is no pain and | |
| sadness would be fundamentally unjust, since it would imply evil | |
| people receive the same outcome as good people. | |
| The world we want is one where pain and sadness are experienced | |
| by evil people only. The Gnostic ideal is heaven for good people | |
| and hell for evil people. | |
| #Post#: 30069-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: HikariDude Date: May 3, 2025, 8:49 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| I�ll take the lack of response as an agreement. | |
| Moral of the story: | |
| 1) start where you are, use what you have, do what you can | |
| 2) know the beginning to know the end and you will know the | |
| world and the corpse | |
| Any disagreements? | |
| #Post#: 30070-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 3, 2025, 9:54 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| The danger of the wording "use what you have" is that it could | |
| be misinterpreted to mean opposition to acquiring control of | |
| resources currently controlled by someone else. | |
| If there is an inhabitable territory currently divided between | |
| two states A and B, with A superior to B by our standards, I | |
| would recommend A conquer the territory currently controlled by | |
| B rather than transform currently uninhabitable surrounding | |
| territory into inhabitable territory, as the former at least | |
| does not increase the total quantity of inhabitable territory | |
| whereas the latter does. But "use what you have" could be | |
| misinterpreted to mean "don't conquer B's territory". | |
| See also: | |
| https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthroug… | |
| #Post#: 30074-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: HikariDude Date: May 4, 2025, 4:03 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| What I meant was in opposition to creation and exploration. For | |
| example, farmers settled in river valleys, used the seeds and | |
| environment it had (as opposed to hunters, herders, etc. who | |
| search for resources regardless of settled location). | |
| �If there is an inhabitable territory currently divided between | |
| two states A and B, with A superior to B by our standards, I | |
| would recommend A conquer the territory currently controlled by | |
| B rather than transform currently uninhabitable surrounding | |
| territory into inhabitable territory, as the former at least | |
| does not increase the total quantity of inhabitable territory | |
| whereas the latter does. But "use what you have" could be | |
| misinterpreted to mean "don't conquer B's territory".� | |
| Couldn�t it also mean �Don�t create more inhabitable territory�? | |
| Also, the territory used by B already exists whereas, besides A | |
| and B, there was no other inhabitable territory had. | |
| I agree that it would not be that ideal to settle for something | |
| simply because one can afford to do so. But it�s another problem | |
| to add new things to existence (whether from creation or | |
| discovery). | |
| What do you think would be a better proverb? | |
| #Post#: 30080-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 4, 2025, 6:22 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| "Couldn�t it also mean �Don�t create more inhabitable | |
| territory�?" | |
| Yes, it could. Therefore it is ambiguous wording, which we | |
| should try to avoid. | |
| "What do you think would be a better proverb?" | |
| Antagonism, not protagonism? | |
| #Post#: 30090-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: HikariDude Date: May 5, 2025, 8:48 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| �Antagonism, not protagonism?� | |
| What about �cultivation, not creation�? | |
| #Post#: 30091-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 5, 2025, 5:56 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| "What about �cultivation, not creation�?" | |
| I see what you are trying to do, but I could ask the same | |
| question of cultivation as of creation: how much cultivation | |
| before we consider it to be enough? | |
| #Post#: 30094-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: HikariDude Date: May 5, 2025, 7:52 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| �I see what you are trying to do,� | |
| I was just trying to understand the basic Gnostic viewpoint and | |
| what True Leftism actually is. | |
| I know the order is Dualism, Quality, Duty, and Struggle. I know | |
| subjectivity is important since the individuality of truly | |
| honest people allows us to know their truly designated folk even | |
| if it is not this True Left folk. I know one should punch up | |
| against initiated violence (even if the retaliator looks like | |
| the initiator). I know that power should not be given to oneself | |
| but to qualified individuals. I know that pacifism and | |
| egalitarianism is not true universalism and will only include | |
| oppression. I know that true freedom is willingness to face | |
| consequences. | |
| But if there is one common thing that defines True Leftism, what | |
| is it? | |
| #Post#: 30096-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 5, 2025, 8:32 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| "Dualism" | |
| To be precise, it is possible for anti-Gnostics to be dualists | |
| also. If they like the material world and believe that we | |
| (Gnostics) who dislike it were not created by the creator of the | |
| material world (whom they worship) but by some oppositional god | |
| (whom they are hostile towards), they are still dualists, but | |
| obviously they are not Gnostics. Therefore Gnostics are a subset | |
| of dualists, specifically we are anti-materialistic dualists. | |
| "Quality" | |
| This term is meaningless without a statement of the standards by | |
| which we measure quality. For example, some people consider high | |
| sexual dimorphism to be high quality. They still believe in | |
| quality. They are obviously not us, however. (We consider low | |
| sexual dimorphism to be high quality.) | |
| "Duty, and Struggle" | |
| It should be clarified that it is the discharging of our duty | |
| and the ending of our struggle that we aspire to. We do not | |
| enjoy any of this and certainly do not want to prolong it. | |
| "if there is one common thing that defines True Leftism, what is | |
| it?" | |
| Agreement that the most urgent priority is killing Western | |
| civilization. True Leftism is a specific reaction to Western | |
| civilization. Once Western civilization dies, True Leftism can | |
| be retired. After that, we get to return to the old Gnosticism | |
| vs traditionalism conflict (as had been ongoing in non-Western | |
| civilizations since ancient times until interrupted by Western | |
| colonialism). | |
| #Post#: 30104-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Gnosticism | |
| By: HikariDude Date: May 6, 2025, 9:35 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| �Therefore Gnostics are a subset of dualists, specifically we | |
| are anti-materialistic dualists� | |
| You know when I know the meaning of that saying from Gospel of | |
| Thomas (56 & 80), physical things are clearly dead. Material | |
| needs emotion, energy, personality, labour, free will, action, | |
| etc to function properly. Mind helps matter, but matter exploits | |
| mind. This is why birth will enslave spirit while death will do | |
| the opposite. | |
| (It can be noted that initiated violence is anti-Gnostic due to | |
| the initiator not recognizing if the victim had initiative while | |
| retaliation is Gnostic due to the retaliator recognizing the | |
| oppressor did indeed have initiative.) | |
| I believe individuals have both good and evil traits. But if | |
| they are not willing to overcome evil traits, they voluntarily | |
| identify as evil. | |
| �We consider low sexual dimorphism to be high quality.� | |
| What�s the difference between equality and universalism? | |
| �Agreement that the most urgent priority is killing Western | |
| civilization.� | |
| Although I asked a similar question before about the founders of | |
| Western civilization, what did Aristotle and Moses stand for? | |
| What can a Westernized individual overcome to prevent anymore | |
| Westernization? Voluntarily not reproducing is one, but there is | |
| obviously more than that. Many Westerners did not reproduce (and | |
| volunteered not to do so) but they are apparently still ignoble. | |
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