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| #Post#: 25732-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: SirGalahad Date: April 2, 2024, 4:52 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| @90sRetroFan For people with chronic anxiety or depression, how | |
| do you think that they should deal with their condition? SSRIs | |
| are obviously a western invention, but if it helps someone | |
| self-preserve long enough to aid us in our mission, do you think | |
| it�s adequate for the time being? I�m sure that certain Buddhist | |
| and other ascetic practices can help with depression or anxiety | |
| to a certain extent, but if we�re working under the assumption | |
| that certain people deal with a form of chronic depression or | |
| anxiety that they possess on a biological level and other people | |
| simply do NOT possess, then such practices might not be enough | |
| #Post#: 25734-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 2, 2024, 6:17 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| "For people with chronic anxiety or depression, how do you think | |
| that they should deal with their condition? SSRIs are obviously | |
| a western invention" | |
| Radical medical decolonization involves not merely rejecting | |
| Western medical treatments, but more importantly rejecting | |
| Western medical diagnoses. Besides SSRIs being a Western | |
| invention, "chronic anxiety" and "depression" as medical | |
| conditions are also Western abstractions: | |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder | |
| [quote]The Ancient Greek physician Hippocrates described a | |
| syndrome of melancholia | |
| (μελαγχολία, | |
| melankhol�a) as a distinct disease with particular mental and | |
| physical symptoms; he characterized all "fears and | |
| despondencies, if they last a long time" as being symptomatic of | |
| the ailment.[322] | |
| ... | |
| It was used in 1665 in English author Richard Baker's Chronicle | |
| to refer to someone having "a great depression of spirit", and | |
| by English author Samuel Johnson in a similar sense in | |
| 1753.[325] The term also came into use in physiology and | |
| economics. An early usage referring to a psychiatric symptom was | |
| by French psychiatrist Louis Delasiauve in 1856, and by the | |
| 1860s it was appearing in medical dictionaries to refer to a | |
| physiological and metaphorical lowering of emotional | |
| function.[326][/quote] | |
| which are based on the assumption that they are disorders, which | |
| in turn is based on a Western assumption of what "normal" looks | |
| like (basically well-adjusted to life in Western civilization). | |
| Our position, in contrast, is that being anxious and/or | |
| depressed in response to life in Western civilization are valid | |
| responses! In our view, it is if anything those who are | |
| well-adjusted to life in Western civilization who are the | |
| problem. | |
| Consider chickens in a Western egg factory, whose behaviour | |
| surely satisfy the symptomatic conditions for | |
| anxiety/depression. Do you think the best way to help the | |
| chickens is to give them SSRIs or to get them out of the factory | |
| conditions? | |
| Look at the Hippocratic definition again: | |
| [quote]all "fears and despondencies, if they last a long time" | |
| as being symptomatic of the ailment.[/quote] | |
| In a non-Western view, this would simply be: | |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du%E1%B8%A5kha | |
| [quote]Duḥkha (/ˈduːkə/)(Sanskrit; Pali: | |
| dukkha), 'unease', "standing unstable," commonly translated as | |
| "suffering", "pain", or "unhappiness", is an important concept | |
| in Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism. Its meaning depends on the | |
| context, and may refer more specifically to the | |
| "unsatisfactoriness" or "unease" of mundane life | |
| ... | |
| Duḥkha is one of the three marks of existence[/quote] | |
| But instead of identifying samsara as the problem, Hippocrates | |
| defines "melancholia" as the problem, in other words blaming the | |
| victim. | |
| #Post#: 25736-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: SirGalahad Date: April 2, 2024, 7:05 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| I do think that SSRIs are vastly over-prescribed, and that many | |
| of the people who have taken or are currently taking SSRIs, are | |
| simply reacting to life under western civilization, and in the | |
| material world more broadly (my sister takes an SSRI for | |
| anxiety, and it wasn�t until she started studying 24/7 in | |
| medical school that she had to have her dosage increased even | |
| higher than what it already was. Go figure). But I also find it | |
| believable that there�s a biological component that makes | |
| certain people more unlucky than others with respect to how much | |
| and how often they feel anxiety or depression, and that such | |
| people would feel that crippling depression and anxiety in ANY | |
| civilization, rather than just western civilization | |
| specifically. | |
| Do you not think that it�s possible for one person in a pair of | |
| qualitatively identical Aryans to feel significantly more | |
| depression or anxiety than the other? Also, some people | |
| experience such intense depression and/or anxiety, that they | |
| can�t otherwise function without SSRIs, and would surely kill | |
| themselves to escape the torture. Ideally, nobody would be born | |
| in the material world, and such an invention wouldn�t be needed. | |
| But in the meantime, isn�t it strategically advantageous to help | |
| keep such people alive, albeit with a western invention, if the | |
| person in question is an Aryanist? | |
| #Post#: 25740-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 2, 2024, 9:20 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| An individual should be allowed to take whatever medication they | |
| choose, so long as its development involved no initiated | |
| violence. | |
| Has the development of SSRIs involved initiated violence? Of | |
| course it has! | |
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9084057/ | |
| https://www.peta.org/blog/antidepressant-drug-company-sage-therapeutics-ends-fo… | |
| "isn�t it strategically advantageous to help keep such people | |
| alive, albeit with a western invention, if the person in | |
| question is an Aryanist?" | |
| If someone knows about the forced swim test but nevertheless | |
| remains willing to take SSRIs, they are by definition not an | |
| Aryanist. | |
| "Do you not think that it�s possible for one person in a pair of | |
| qualitatively identical Aryans to feel significantly more | |
| depression or anxiety than the other?" | |
| If they are identical, then logically one would only feel more | |
| depression/anxiety than another if they were placed in different | |
| circumstances. If in identical circumstances one feels more | |
| depression/anxiety than another, theyn logically they cannot be | |
| identical. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. | |
| #Post#: 25765-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: Questioning Date: April 5, 2024, 9:44 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| As far as i remember the concept of "endogenous depression" was | |
| coined in NS germany, either by Emil Kraepelin or Julius | |
| Hallervorden, i haven't yet found the paper that it was stated | |
| in but if i do i shall add it do | |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_eponyms_with_Nazi_associations | |
| It is basically described as a form of depression not influenced | |
| by external factors, trauma, or environment but a persistent one | |
| that has to do with an inborn "error" of brain metabolism or | |
| something of that sort, in line with thinking of this movement i | |
| would concede that any knowledge "we" obtained through immoral | |
| means (animal experiments etc) are to be trashed, instead, if | |
| you want to build up a library of responses you have to certain | |
| medicines the only way to do this is by testing it on yourself, | |
| i know that the irreversible MAOIs are the treatment of choice | |
| for this. | |
| #Post#: 25768-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: Questioning Date: April 5, 2024, 10:52 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Questioning link=topic=2693.msg25765#msg25765 | |
| date=1712371444] | |
| As far as i remember the concept of "endogenous depression" was | |
| coined in NS germany, either by Emil Kraepelin or Julius | |
| Hallervorden, i haven't yet found the paper that it was stated | |
| in but if i do i shall add it do | |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_eponyms_with_Nazi_associations | |
| It is basically described as a form of depression not influenced | |
| by external factors, trauma, or environment but a persistent one | |
| that has to do with an inborn "error" of brain metabolism or | |
| something of that sort, in line with thinking of this movement i | |
| would concede that any knowledge "we" obtained through immoral | |
| means (animal experiments etc) are to be trashed, instead, if | |
| you want to build up a library of responses you have to certain | |
| medicines the only way to do this is by testing it on yourself, | |
| i know that the irreversible MAOIs are the treatment of choice | |
| for this. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Correction: it was this guy | |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Schneider | |
| who went about | |
| coining it as its seperate entity, building on Kraepelin work. | |
| #Post#: 25769-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: Questioning Date: April 5, 2024, 11:03 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=2693.msg25740#msg25740 | |
| date=1712110819] | |
| An individual should be allowed to take whatever medication they | |
| choose, so long as its development involved no initiated | |
| violence. | |
| Has the development of SSRIs involved initiated violence? Of | |
| course it has! | |
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9084057/ | |
| https://www.peta.org/blog/antidepressant-drug-company-sage-therapeutics-ends-fo… | |
| If someone knows about the forced swim test but nevertheless | |
| remains willing to take SSRIs, they are by definition not an | |
| Aryanist. | |
| [/quote] | |
| So what should one do otherwise? Ancient societies have | |
| practiced medicine for as long as they were around, it was only | |
| much later that westerners began building empiric data on those | |
| same medicines and their effects through standardized animal | |
| experiements, are we to discard all of these medicines that have | |
| had the misfortune of being used in such a way too? A medication | |
| by itself doesn't hurt animals, "humans" do, the same way | |
| "humans" use weaponry to hunt | |
| #Post#: 25770-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 5, 2024, 11:30 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| "So what should one do otherwise?" | |
| https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/re-psychological-decolonization/msg228… | |
| />(section on zoopharmacognosy) | |
| "are we to discard all of these medicines that have had the | |
| misfortune of being used in such a way too?" | |
| Yes. | |
| #Post#: 25772-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: Questioning Date: April 5, 2024, 11:59 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=2693.msg25770#msg25770 | |
| date=1712377833] | |
| "So what should one do otherwise?" | |
| https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/re-psychological-decolonization/msg228… | |
| />(section on zoopharmacognosy) | |
| "are we to discard all of these medicines that have had the | |
| misfortune of being used in such a way too?" | |
| Yes. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Thanks, but is this not sort of what i proposed too? Discarding | |
| what "we" have learnt about these things by way of crueldom in | |
| favor of our intuition when it comes to self-medicating | |
| disagreeable states? This too would include some modern | |
| pharmaceuticals, of which germany was a pioneer during the | |
| second world war. | |
| Would we too ditch the rocks that were used by cavemen to | |
| barbarically crush open the skulls of animals for hunting | |
| purposes? | |
| #Post#: 25773-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Medical Decolonization | |
| By: Questioning Date: April 6, 2024, 12:18 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Questioning link=topic=2693.msg25772#msg25772 | |
| date=1712379563] | |
| [quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=2693.msg25770#msg25770 | |
| date=1712377833] | |
| "So what should one do otherwise?" | |
| https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/re-psychological-decolonization/msg228… | |
| />(section on zoopharmacognosy) | |
| "are we to discard all of these medicines that have had the | |
| misfortune of being used in such a way too?" | |
| Yes. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Thanks, but is this not sort of what i proposed too? Discarding | |
| what "we" have learnt about these things by way of crueldom in | |
| favor of our intuition when it comes to self-medicating | |
| disagreeable states? This too would include some modern | |
| pharmaceuticals, of which germany was a pioneer during the | |
| second world war. | |
| Would we too ditch the rocks that were used by cavemen to | |
| barbarically crush open the skulls of animals for hunting | |
| purposes? | |
| [/quote] | |
| Add to that, how would you propose to distinguish between | |
| explicitly western medicine/western-inspired one and non-western | |
| one? To leave one without any blame feels superficial when it is | |
| traditional (relative to what exactly?) medical systems in many | |
| non-western countries that gave rise to large amounts of animal | |
| exploitation due to belief that their essences among others | |
| could cure various illnesses, and then i too must ask, how would | |
| you judge the NS german medical industry- Do you view it as | |
| non-western? | |
| Sorry for all these questions, perhaps i am ignorant | |
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