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| #Post#: 21160-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Piston dome | |
| By: stpltn250r Date: June 26, 2013, 8:49 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Someone please tell me if I did this correctly. | |
| I dont have any jigs nor do I work in or around a machine shop. | |
| I went to measure the dome rise on a LT500 piston. There is what | |
| seems to be a little flat spot smack dab in the center of the | |
| piston. So what I did was laid a flat bar across the piston. I | |
| measured from the underside of the bar to the bottom of the | |
| piston or surface piston was sitting on. I than measured from | |
| the timing edge of the piston to the bottom of the skirt. Than I | |
| subtracted the two and assumed that to be the dome rise. I came | |
| up with 6.4mm. Think it was little less than that like 6.397mm. | |
| Does that sound correct for a 89.5mm piston? Do the dome rises | |
| change with bore size? I wouldnt think they would. | |
| #Post#: 21180-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Piston dome | |
| By: Motorgeek Date: June 27, 2013, 9:47 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| What are you trying to do? Are you trying to calculate the dome | |
| volume using procedures like most four stroke builders use. If | |
| so there will be some volumes not accounted for and erroneous | |
| compression ratios will be calculated The domes on most two | |
| stroke are not a constant radius. | |
| You need a $30,000 CMM to accurately measure the top of the | |
| piston to determine its actual dome radius or how many different | |
| radi it has. | |
| Save your self a lot of time and calculation and just measure | |
| the actual clearance volume a running engine "sees". | |
| 1. Place the piston about and one inch from TDC | |
| 2. .Put two little daps of grease on the bore where the end | |
| gaps of the rings are located. | |
| 3. Rotate the crank so that the piston moves to TDC. This | |
| should seal and keep the end gaps from leaking liquid. | |
| 4. Wipe off the excess grease | |
| 5. Install the head and head gasket . | |
| 6. Fill the volume on top of the piston with ATF or mineral | |
| spirits from a Burett (graduated cylinder) to the top of the | |
| spark plug hole. | |
| 7. Subtract 2.1cc from the volume number you measured in step 6 | |
| if you are using a 3/4" reach spark plug. I use 2.1cc because | |
| it is a good average number for the volume that a B8ES spark | |
| plug occupies in the spark plug thread. Your should now have | |
| the actual volume needed to make a good compression ratio | |
| calculation. | |
| 8. Now that we have an accurate compression ratio number what | |
| do we do with it??????. What does it mean???? | |
| 9. This procedure should take less than 5 minutes. | |
| #Post#: 21194-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Piston dome | |
| By: stpltn250r Date: June 27, 2013, 12:12 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Well i have the bimotion head program. I know jts just the guy | |
| who made its opinion on what is what. I didnt think about the | |
| inconsistent radius of the whole dome of the piston. It just | |
| asks in the program a piston height. By using the bore of the of | |
| the piston and the height of the dome in a spherical cap volume | |
| calculator It seems to be around 18cc. Adding that to the dome I | |
| was playing around with it adds up to be the dome cc uninstalled | |
| would be a 57cc dome. And 14.2 CR. | |
| #Post#: 21213-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Piston dome | |
| By: Motorgeek Date: June 27, 2013, 7:22 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Stpltn250r link=topic=2058.msg21194#msg21194 | |
| date=1372353150] | |
| Well i have the bimotion head program. I know jts just the guy | |
| who made its opinion on what is what. I didnt think about the | |
| inconsistent radius of the whole dome of the piston. It just | |
| asks in the program a piston height. By using the bore of the of | |
| the piston and the height of the dome in a spherical cap volume | |
| calculator It seems to be around 18cc. Adding that to the dome I | |
| was playing around with it adds up to be the dome cc uninstalled | |
| would be a 57cc dome. And 14.2 CR. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Most of the compression ratio calculators and formulas for head | |
| geometry do not account for the volume that is above the top | |
| ring between the piston and cylinder wall. | |
| I could use Calculus and calculate the exact volumes, but it | |
| takes much longer to accurately measure all of the dimensions | |
| that is needed to put into the equations than it does to use the | |
| procedure I gave in a former post | |
| #Post#: 21219-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Piston dome | |
| By: stpltn250r Date: June 27, 2013, 10:30 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| well thanks for the response but dont think the question was | |
| answered. "is that the proper way to find the height of a dome". | |
| i also cant see how the area above the ring can play that much | |
| in the displacement of the head. but what do i know. | |
| #Post#: 21221-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Piston dome | |
| By: WestTexasKing Date: June 27, 2013, 11:06 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| So you basically measured from the edge of the piston (lowest | |
| portion of dome) to the center of the piston (highest portion of | |
| dome), height-wise. | |
| You used two measurements, diametrically opposed, and averaged | |
| the two accounting for an imperfect level on the bar. | |
| If all you're looking for is the piston dome height from the | |
| edge of the piston, it sounds reasonable, probably reasonable | |
| enough to use in your program. | |
| BTW, that tiny gap above the ring can easily be as much as the | |
| small recess for the spark plug, which is a factor in | |
| compression ratios. | |
| The pistons I just replaced in my agcat had .4" between the | |
| piston edge and first compression ring, then factor in the 1/8" | |
| gap between the piston and cylinder...that's a lot of extra | |
| volume! | |
| #Post#: 21228-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Piston dome | |
| By: Motorgeek Date: June 27, 2013, 11:54 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Stpltn250r link=topic=2058.msg21219#msg21219 | |
| date=1372390218] | |
| well thanks for the response but dont think the question was | |
| answered. "is that the proper way to find the height of a dome". | |
| i also cant see how the area above the ring can play that much | |
| in the displacement of the head. but what do i know. | |
| [/quote] | |
| The diameter of a Wiseco piston above the ring is about 0.50 mm | |
| smaller than the bore. The top ring is about 3mm from the | |
| timing edge of the piston. I would "guestimate" the volume | |
| above the ring between the piston and cylinder wall to be at | |
| least 0.2cc. | |
| #Post#: 26335-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Piston dome | |
| By: stpltn250r Date: September 13, 2013, 9:02 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| got a buddy with a CMM said he will measure it for me!! | |
| #Post#: 54691-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Piston dome | |
| By: Gaz Date: July 27, 2023, 9:04 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Lol 10 years later...Did you get a measurement of Piston dome | |
| volume using the CCM? | |
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