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| #Post#: 9751-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: May 31, 2018, 1:51 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=RE link=topic=559.msg154699#msg154699 | |
| date=1527791572] | |
| [quote author=Surly1 link=topic=559.msg154694#msg154694 | |
| date=1527789961] | |
| [quote author=agelbert link=topic=559.msg154690#msg154690 | |
| date=1527789244] | |
| Well said. | |
| However, I think the rich backers of Trump are effectively | |
| taking a long walk off a short pier. Yes, we will all go down | |
| together. Life on Earth is aptly named the valley of tears. | |
| I am looking forward to life after this life. | |
| Some may say that is a defeatist attitude. I say, as a student | |
| of climate science and human history, the interminable hostility | |
| of greedy humans to each other and the continued, willful insane | |
| destruction of the biosphere 'seed corn' that allows human | |
| existence are behavioral problems can only be fixed by God | |
| modifying human nature so we ALL think altruistically, instead | |
| of greedily. | |
| I don't see Him doing that any time soon. | |
| [/quote] | |
| I quite agree. WE are the pillow the rich will land on which the | |
| entire rotten edifice falls down. | |
| [/quote] | |
| That will be a mighty hard pillow. The problem for the Rich is | |
| they won't be Rich after a collapse of the monetary system. | |
| RE | |
| [/quote] | |
| [img | |
| width=40] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-22101… | |
| #Post#: 9755-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: May 31, 2018, 8:00 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Palloy2 link=topic=11112.msg154715#msg154715 | |
| date=1527807267] | |
| [quote]I'm not sure you've actually heard my definition of | |
| Christianity. ... Profession of faith, Confession of sins, | |
| baptism of some sort. [/quote] | |
| That's a pretty unusual set of rituals. As a non-Christian | |
| (baptised at birth) it is hard to take you to task over your | |
| definition of what Christianity is, but surely it has got to | |
| have something to do with believing in the rightness of what | |
| Jesus preached - "love your enemies as much as yourself", "turn | |
| the other cheek" and not to put yourself first all the time. | |
| [img | |
| width=60] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-25081… | |
| /> Given you think my hermit lifestyle is proof of something bad | |
| (not sure quite what) could you please explain that in plain | |
| language without citing someone else, without riddles, and | |
| without Amerikan slang. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Well, I think Palloy has hit the semantic nail right on the | |
| head. [img width=25 | |
| height=30] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png[/img… | |
| />I rarely agree with him, but he is right here. | |
| [quote author=Eddie link=topic=11112.msg154714#msg154714 | |
| date=1527805705] | |
| [quote author=agelbert link=topic=11112.msg154677#msg154677 | |
| date=1527783580] | |
| Eddie, I am curious. Do you actually think the USA was EVER a | |
| Christian country? The Founding Fathers were deists, NOT | |
| Christians. Their pattern for government was the Roman Republic | |
| of the Roman Empire. They were imperialists from the word go. | |
| This country's beliefs are, and always have been, based on MIGHT | |
| EQUALS RIGHT, PERIOD. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Yes, the US is very much a Christian country and always has | |
| been. | |
| The Founding Fathers were more educated, philosophically | |
| oriented, and generally perhaps a bit more enlightened than the | |
| rank and file citizens of the early days. We were greatly | |
| influenced by all the splinter group protestant religions that | |
| arose in Europe and then were brought here by those looking for | |
| a place to practice their various sectarian brands of | |
| Christianity without interference from the State. | |
| They were mostly alike in that they were the high-guilt, | |
| sins-of-the-father-visited-on-the-son brand of hell-fire and | |
| damnation Christianity. | |
| America forever is stained with the stiff-necked, self-righteous | |
| dogma of the Puritans. It is the Puritans I blame for much of | |
| what is wrong with our culture. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Guilt is the LAST thing Americans, especially the Founding | |
| Exploiters, have ever been known for. A people that wallow in | |
| guilt don't calmly go about conning the natives until they get | |
| enough power and population to kill them off, Eddie. Might | |
| equals Right is NOT Christian doctrine. NO, this country was | |
| never Christian in any way, shape or form, just like the | |
| Catholic church was never a Christian organization. So, I will | |
| disagree with you totally on that. This country is pagan to the | |
| core. The "Christian" thing was always a clever fig leaf to | |
| cover the ruthless greed of the elites AND the citizenry. | |
| [quote author=Eddie link=topic=11112.msg154713#msg154713 | |
| date=1527804810] | |
| [quote author=agelbert link=topic=11112.msg154698#msg154698 | |
| date=1527791343] | |
| [quote author=Eddie link=topic=11112.msg154692#msg154692 | |
| date=1527789524] | |
| My best understanding of Jesus I gained not from Texas doctrine, | |
| but from reading Yogananda, who completely GOT Jesus, imho. He | |
| was so interested in trying to explain Jesus to Americans that | |
| he wrote two whole books about it, neither of whom ever got much | |
| attention. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Was Yogananda a Christian? Specifically, did Yogananda believe | |
| that Jesus Christ was, and is, God? If not, Yogananda was | |
| focusing on the teachings, not the supernatural nature of grace | |
| and the action of the Holy Spirit. That is, again, the belief | |
| that humans can actually follow Christ's teachings by the force | |
| of their own "Godlike" will. Did Yogananda believe in Karma? | |
| Karma is a replacement for God's answer to sin without God. That | |
| is, quite frankly, a blasphemy if associated with Chritianity or | |
| Jesus Christ. | |
| Gandhi, like you, said he liked Christianity (i.e. SOME, not | |
| all, of Christ's teachings) but wasn't too impressed with the | |
| unChristian behavior of Christians. | |
| I respectfully, but totally, disagree with your definition of | |
| Christianity. Knarf, the Bhuddist, is quite Christian in his | |
| behavior towards fellow humans and the life forms around him. | |
| That does not make him a Christian. | |
| Your behavior towards your neighbors is ethical and laudable, | |
| but that does not make you a Christian. I am sure Yogananda, if | |
| he lives still, is a principled human with laudable behavior. | |
| But as long he claims Jesus was not God, Yogonanda, like Gandhi, | |
| Knarf and you, is not a Christian. Monotheism is not negotiable | |
| in Christianity. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Nice conversation and no hard feelings about a single thing on | |
| my part. I hope I didn't say anything you found offensive. I | |
| understand and respect your brand of Christian faith. And your | |
| works are substantial and speak for themselves. | |
| Yogananda talked a lot about what he called Christ | |
| Consciousness. I'm not sure I can explain that very succinctly, | |
| although it makes sense to me. | |
| I can't really say that I think he was a Christian... by your | |
| measure and by the New Testament, no, I don't think he was a | |
| Christian. | |
| I'm pretty sure he did not ever undergo a baptism and confess | |
| his sins and accept Christ as I was taught was necessary. | |
| Did he give his life to God? Yes. He very much did that. I | |
| recommend his autobiography. Steve Jobs, btw, was said to have | |
| given away many, many copies to people, as he thought it was | |
| the most important book people could ever read. | |
| I'm not sure you've actually heard my definition of | |
| Christianity. In my post above I repeated what many, many | |
| Christian ministers have said. Not just the church I grew up in, | |
| which was very fundie, but also every one of the other Christian | |
| churches I ever sat through a sermon in, which is quite a few. | |
| All protestant, however. They all agreed on the basics. | |
| Profession of faith, Confession of sins, baptism of some sort. | |
| Don't get me wrong. I don't think just going through the motions | |
| means much. I agree that it does not. Many "Christians" are | |
| going through the motions. And Palloy is right, that many of | |
| them are brainwashed. But it isn't just TV. They're brainwashed | |
| in church too. That has become prevalent, unfortunately. | |
| [/quote] | |
| I've read quite a bit about "Christ consciousness". You will | |
| probably disagree, but it is based on a person using their OWN | |
| WILL to DO Christ and/or to "channel" the "ascended master" | |
| thing that Jesus has allegedly achieved. That does involve | |
| spiritual experience, but it is not the Holy Spirit doing the | |
| action in the person. So, any true Christian must reject it. | |
| Sorry to be so frank, but, I was exposed to a lot of the New Age | |
| stuff before I finally gave myself to Christ. I am no spring | |
| chicken. I went through the whole reincarnation belief structure | |
| too and read several books about this amazingly logical karmic | |
| multi-life structure. I was attracted by the apparent balance | |
| (i.e. hope for justice for all). Unfortuantely, the whole ball | |
| of metaphysical wax there revolves around the SELF, not God. It | |
| is 100% against everything that Christ taught. | |
| The brainwashing done in the "Christian" churches, since (and | |
| long before) this country began, was, and is, exclusively for | |
| the purpose of suckering the rubes to conflate the National Flag | |
| with God so they will be willing to die for empire in wars. It | |
| has ZIP to do with Christianity. | |
| The "hell and damantion" thing IS Christian, whether you and I | |
| and Yogananda like it or not. ;) BUT, if that pack of lying | |
| preachers had actually believed in Hell and Damnation as | |
| punishment for evil behavior, they would not have trained | |
| Americans to love money and do whatever necessary, including | |
| "God" approved murder and mayhem in other countries, to GET IT! | |
| Sure, every other country from Spain to England to France to | |
| Italy to Russia to Germany (e.g. Gott Mit Uns!) has pulled the | |
| same con on their people. That does NOT make it Christian. That | |
| just proves that religion was hijacked in the propaganda service | |
| of the warmongering state! The problem is the STATE, not the | |
| Christian Faith. | |
| You are fond of lambasting that war promoting propaganda effort | |
| everywhere else but you think it is some kind of simple con game | |
| to get money out of people in the "Christian" churches? It goes | |
| WAY BEYOND THAT! And, you know it. Lambast away at those Texas | |
| megachurches! They deserve to be burned to the ground and every | |
| crooked "Christian" pastor forced to give back all the money | |
| they conned out of the rubes. All I ask is that you use quotes | |
| around the word "Christian" when you speak of those devils. | |
| Eddie, I don't have a "brand" of Christianity. You are free to | |
| call it that but I hasten to add that the basic tenets of the | |
| Christian Faith require worshipping God. That's the one, the | |
| only, God. That is not some monist "we are all one and we are | |
| actually worshipping ourselves" concept. Monism is basphemy. | |
| My major complaint with these discussions with you is that you | |
| refuse to make a distinction between Christians and "Christians" | |
| behaviorwise, never mind the Heinz 57 number of excuses for | |
| "Christianity" out there. You claim this fellow Yogananda really | |
| understood Jesus. Well, I am CERTAIN that he rejected absolutely | |
| everything Jesus Christ said about Hell and Damnation. A person | |
| can't claim to know Jesus Christ and reject His rather frequent | |
| warnings of "outer darkness" and such for those who rejected His | |
| teachings by replacing Divine punishment with some Karma | |
| mechanism. That's just more cherry picking the Gospel for | |
| convenience. | |
| Yogananda never served God if he believed in Karma, no matter | |
| how righteous his behavior was. Works without Faith are as empty | |
| as Faith without Works. | |
| We can go back and forth forever defining either the Christian | |
| TALK (doctrine, rituals, etc.) and/or the Christian WALK | |
| (respect for our neighbors and daily submission to God's will | |
| through prayer) but it is clear that I can never convince you | |
| that the WALK MUST accompany the TALK for a person to be a | |
| Christian. | |
| So, believe what you will. May God guide your thoughts, words | |
| and deeds, Amen. [img | |
| width=150] | |
| https://lh6.ggpht.com/sw_iT7GZASdAYeiecsZEHJE-EgDhdK2rCWUzZOJS0OFiGpoi9qn8iMH2n… | |
| #Post#: 9757-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: June 1, 2018, 2:00 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Eddie said: | |
| [quote]Ah, we've gotten around to the core message. I read you | |
| loud and clear Cap'n. | |
| What does "Love thine enemies" mean to you? What specific | |
| behavior is involved? That's where Palloy misses the boat when | |
| he comes down so hard on me. You're missing it too. | |
| To me it doesn't mean that I can literally make myself instantly | |
| treat an adversary like my brother. There's a reason somebody is | |
| my adversary. It didn't happen in a vacuum. They are my | |
| adversary because they did something to me, or are causing me | |
| some kind of grief. They're maybe still doing it. | |
| But "love thine enemies" means I need to give them a big hug the | |
| next time I see them and say, "Hey, you've been a major prick, | |
| but I love you cuz Jesus sez"...... | |
| I doubt the real capacity for most humans to do that if they | |
| were REALLY trying. It isn't likely to ever happen on a | |
| Federation planet. | |
| "Love thine enemies", to me means something different from | |
| that.. | |
| To me, love thine enemies extends to putting myself in the | |
| enemies' place and trying realize maybe they have legitimate | |
| reasons for whatever they're doing that negatively impacts me. | |
| Understanding that they're fallible and human and that I'm not | |
| perfect, and maybe I should try to see it from their side. | |
| THAT, I can do. And I do. Who says I don't? | |
| The scripture does not indicate this person is not going to be | |
| my enemy anymore. | |
| -------------------------------------- | |
| "Turn the other cheek." That one has several possible meanings, | |
| according which religious authority you accept, actually. | |
| Ancient metaphors are easily misunderstood. Especially in | |
| translation from dead languages. Blessed are the cheese makers. | |
| You ones all see things black and white. It's all so simple. | |
| Must be nice[/quote] | |
| That's a rather harsh judgement, sir. I have the Hebrew Greek | |
| study bible and get HEAVY into the orignial words to see if I | |
| can figure out the cultural mindset of the writer at the time. | |
| Yes, GOOD and EVIL are 100% black and white to me. That is | |
| irrelevant to proper interpretation of Scripture and does not | |
| interfere with my analytical mental faculties. For example, most | |
| "Christians" believe that the Commandment to "Honor thy father | |
| and thy mother" means you must obey their every wish. Obedience | |
| has NOTHING to do with that. As Jesus made rather clear, it's | |
| about taking economic and physical care of your parents in their | |
| old age. You and I know that children were (and in some places | |
| still are) the social security and retirement pension for humans | |
| back then. Jesus was accutely aware of how hypocrites mistreated | |
| their aged parents while claiming to be men of God. He called | |
| them out on it and many other examples of Mammon worshipping | |
| evil behavior. | |
| But, people who find it uncomfortable to get past 1st grade | |
| Sunday school (i.e. most American "Christians") cannot be | |
| bothered with such realities. Providing sustenance for aged | |
| parents is TOTALLY different from observing obedience to their | |
| wishes. The "Honor" in that Commandment is where the word | |
| "Honorarium" came from that the lawyers came up with to fleece | |
| their clients. [img | |
| width=20] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png[/img] | |
| As to your other points, I basically agree. The point of | |
| contention you and I have has to do with the source of our | |
| decision making mental and spiritual software, not what good | |
| Christian behavior is. | |
| [quote author=Eddie link=topic=11112.msg154751#msg154751 | |
| date=1527860329] | |
| [quote author=Surly1 link=topic=11112.msg154741#msg154741 | |
| date=1527850858] | |
| [quote author=Eddie link=topic=11112.msg154717#msg154717 | |
| date=1527814170] | |
| My Christianity has been tainted by lots of subversive | |
| influences. Tantra. Taoism. Astrology. Past Lives. Karma. | |
| Dharma. LSD. Peyote. Mushrooms. Meditation. | |
| All kinds of unsubstantiated hocus pocus. I'm a spiritual | |
| sponge. I soak it all up and when I dry out there is a little | |
| bit of all of it still inside me. It is as it is supposed to be. | |
| That's my faith. | |
| I have no hope of influencing you in any positive way, or of | |
| convincing you that my belief system has any merit, or that | |
| anything in the world of spirituality is correct besides your | |
| limited personal interpretation of Jesus's message as perceived | |
| by a nosebleed Type One. | |
| But I won't willingly stand by and listen to you badmouth me. | |
| You aren't qualified to do that, and I won't allow it. | |
| You don't hold the moral high ground here that you erroneously | |
| assume that you do. You have your own work to do, and it's late | |
| in the game for you. You should worry less about my **** and | |
| more about your own ****. | |
| [/quote] | |
| This is the only comment I'll make on this thread, because it is | |
| prima facie absurd. Reminds me of the old rock tune with the | |
| lyric, | |
| "My girl is red hot, your girl ain't doodle squat..." except | |
| substitute "God" for "girl." A POV underpinning every pointless | |
| squabble on the face of the earth. | |
| This resonated for me: | |
| [quote]I'm a spiritual sponge. I soak it all up and when I dry | |
| out there is a little bit of all of it still inside me. It is as | |
| it is supposed to be. That's my faith.[/quote] | |
| Our faith tempered by experience makes us who we are. Seems | |
| self-evident to me. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Not sure I get your POV either. I didn't mean it the way you | |
| took it, that's for sure. If I had to rephrase what I meant, it | |
| would be : | |
| "I have my own belief system. It's a hodge-podge made up of | |
| many influences. But it's mine, it's legitimate, and I won't | |
| listen to some really ignorant and judgmental jerk try to take | |
| it apart. | |
| Better?[/quote] | |
| You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but Surly's point | |
| is 100% valid in regard to this subject. I think what Surly is | |
| trying to say is as follows: | |
| When discussing the term, "Christianity", different people get a | |
| totally different picture in their heads. For example, a fighter | |
| pilot gets a picture of a fighter plane when he hears the word, | |
| "F16". | |
| [img | |
| width=300] | |
| https://adminassets.devops.arabiaweather.com/t.php?y=article_image&p=https://ad… | |
| But, a photographer gets a totally different picture in his head | |
| when he hears the word, "F16". | |
| [img | |
| width=300] | |
| https://carlacoulson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/F-Stop.jpg[/img] | |
| All that said, you and I pretty much understand each other. I | |
| think that Works without Faith are as empty as Faith without | |
| Works. You think that's for the guilt ridden. | |
| I don't understand your hangup with guilt. For the life of me, I | |
| don't feel any particular guilt for having a fallen nature. I | |
| was born with it. You and Yogananda, however, eschew all that | |
| "fallen nature" business. Sir, that is so basically UNChristian | |
| it boggles the mind that anyone could reject the Biblical | |
| teachings about human fallen nature, the ONLY reason Christ had | |
| to die for us, and claim to be Christian. | |
| Nevertheless, I understand that your "F16" is rather different | |
| from my F16. When we die, that issue will be cleared up | |
| permanently. | |
| http://dl7.glitter-graphics.net/pub/2046/2046807qoer9uc27q.gif | |
| The Book of James makes it rather clear that the cornerstone of | |
| Christianity is Faith, even before the admonition that good | |
| works MUST accompany Christian Faith. Good works come forth only | |
| if the person actually lives their Faith. | |
| Good Works without Christian Faith are laudable, but they are | |
| not in any way related to Chritianity. [img | |
| width=50] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-13041… | |
| />Verse 18 is often taken out of context to make the case that t | |
| he | |
| bottom Christian line is WORKS, as many New Age folks claim. | |
| Capter 2: Verse 22 begins to clear that up. Then, verse 24 makes | |
| it crystal clear that Faith (see: "only") is a sine qua non | |
| Christian precondition to Good Chrisitian Works. | |
| The following is sine qua non to being a Christian (Agelbert's | |
| F16 WITHOUT QUOTES [img | |
| width=50] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-051113192052.png[/img… | |
| [quote][font=times new roman] James 2:14-26 New King James | |
| Version (NKJV) | |
| 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has | |
| faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a | |
| brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and | |
| one of you says to them, �Depart in peace, be warmed and | |
| filled,� but you do not give them the things which are needed | |
| for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, | |
| if it does not have works, is dead. | |
| 18 But someone will say, �You have faith, and I have works.� | |
| Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my | |
| faith by my works. | |
| 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the | |
| demons believe�and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O | |
| foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not | |
| Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his | |
| son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together | |
| with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the | |
| Scripture was fulfilled which says, �Abraham believed God, and | |
| it was accounted to him for righteousness.� And he was called | |
| the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by | |
| works, and not by faith only. | |
| 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works | |
| when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? | |
| 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without | |
| works is dead also.[/font][/quote] | |
| To Agent Graves: | |
| Thank you for changing your icon. [img width=25 | |
| height=30] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png[/img… | |
| />[img | |
| width=30] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png[/img… | |
| />Now I feel free to read your posts. | |
| I am certain you view my stuffed shirt prude outlook as a | |
| weakness. You are right. I do what I can. Welcome to the | |
| Doomstead Diner. Here you will have a front row seat on the | |
| collapse of industrial civilization. Most of us here feel it is | |
| baked in (pun intended ;)). | |
| RE, | |
| You know that I hunger and thirst for justice as much as anybody | |
| else. I have skills that make me a very, very potentially | |
| dangerous person. As to being as evil as you can possibly be, I | |
| probably take the prize here for past thoughts that, thankfully, | |
| I never had the opportunity to carry out. Jesus said that if you | |
| THINK approvingly and willfully of doing something (e.g. | |
| adultery) you have already committed that sin. | |
| Well, sin covers a lot of behavioral ground. As an Intelligence | |
| Operations Specialist, while in training at Lowry AFB, Colorado | |
| in 1967, I prepared a bombing run as an exercise to destroy two | |
| major airfields in Hanoi, Noth Vietnam. I went to Bombing | |
| Encyclopedia (a LARGE document prepared by the USAF with the | |
| radar signature of EVERY CITY in the world - including US cities | |
| [img | |
| width=20] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png[/img] | |
| )<br | |
| />and looked up the included nuclear weapon yield. After doing | |
| some math, I realized that two nukes with smaller yelds would do | |
| more damage than one big one. Besides, B52s could carry the | |
| slightly smaller ones easier. If that mission had taken place, I | |
| would have shared the responsibility for killing over one | |
| million people plus animals and foliage, followed by horrendous | |
| misery and death for hundreds of thousands others within a year | |
| or so. Yeah, it was just an exercise. BUT, I can tell you right | |
| now I would have carried it out without batting a BRAINWASHED | |
| eyelid. [img | |
| width=20] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png[/img] | |
| Paul ain't got nuttin' on me. I am the CHIEF among sinners. So, | |
| I have a LOT to be grateful for by Jesus Christ coming into my | |
| life. I know how to fly the big jets too. I am confident that I | |
| will never use my dastardly skills to kill. But you never know. | |
| Being a Christian is a daily struggle, not for the feint of | |
| heart. I am NOT a nice guy. My good works behavior and | |
| willingness to forego revenge for the evil visited on me an many | |
| fellow humans for Christ is the result of God's grace, PERIOD. | |
| #Post#: 9765-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: June 2, 2018, 6:47 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=jdwheeler42 link=topic=11112.msg154857#msg154857 | |
| date=1527951831] | |
| [quote author=Eddie link=topic=11112.msg154757#msg154757 | |
| date=1527861802] | |
| [quote author=Agent Graves link=topic=11112.msg154727#msg154727 | |
| date=1527822019] | |
| I had trouble with the sunday school conception of Christianity | |
| since i started asking these questions and being reprimanded for | |
| it in the 1st grade. | |
| 1. Jimmy Swaggart goes to heaven and Ghandi goes to hell. | |
| 2.Being born into abuse/starvation or being born to billionaires | |
| is as random as advantageous mutation in the theory of | |
| evolution. | |
| 3. No explanation of where human souls went prior to Jesus life. | |
| 4. No explanation of where souls go after 33AD but before | |
| hearing the gospel that they are sinners and the white people | |
| killing their fellow natives and taking their land are actually | |
| good and doing them a favour by replacing their evil religions. | |
| 5.No explanation of why Jesus did not expressly forbid war and | |
| conquest in his name if he is an all knowing God and knew this | |
| would happen. | |
| 6. No explanation of where the seperate God resides, now that we | |
| have orbited and photgraphed the earth from space, so scriptural | |
| 'on the clouds' is unstisfactory. | |
| 7. No explanation of Jesus absence age 12 to 30. | |
| 8. No explanation of why 3 men from the east who would hold | |
| wrong beliefs were present at the first Christmas instead of at | |
| least reps from Gods chosen people. | |
| 9. No explanation of why the 3 men from the east were "wise", if | |
| they represent the sort of wrong teaching the Beatles travelled | |
| to India for. | |
| 10. Jesus said he would return soon, 2000 years ago. | |
| These need to be answered from the words of Jesus or direct | |
| scripture, not post hoc theology. | |
| As to that point about the Puritan belief permeating America as | |
| a Christian country, I hope a uniform of authoritah is better | |
| than bathing suits on a boat. | |
| [/quote] | |
| Nice post. All kids with a brain ask those questions when they | |
| grow up in a fundamentalist authoritarian religious church. They | |
| generally go unanswered, and that's one reason why thinking | |
| people tend to drift away as they get out from under the thumb | |
| of their parents and church elders. | |
| There are answers to questions like that. | |
| For one thing, the Christianity practiced in churches, by and | |
| large, is a very twisted and perverted version of the real | |
| thing. At least somebody like Palloy, who seems to have avoided | |
| real Bible study (to his benefit), can grasp Jesus' basic | |
| message. The more clap trap that gets added to the mix, the more | |
| difficult that gets. | |
| [/quote] | |
| 1. Love God | |
| 2. Love your neighbor as yourself | |
| The rest is commentary. | |
| Seen any mustard trees? | |
| The "mustard seed" is the Gospel of Jesus. Mustard plants | |
| normally are knee-high weeds. For it to grow as large as a tree | |
| requires a miracle. That's because it has become a mutant. But | |
| the point of that is to protect it from dying out. In the final | |
| harvest, the wheat (those who truly follow Jesus, see #1 and #2 | |
| above) will be separated from the chaff (those who just took the | |
| form of Christianity). | |
| [/quote] | |
| [center] | |
| http://media.giphy.com/media/HjPbLbmep2aJO/giphy.gif[/center] | |
| #Post#: 9766-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: June 2, 2018, 9:08 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Golden Oxen link=topic=11115.msg154916#msg154916 | |
| date=1527989312] | |
| [quote author=agelbert link=topic=11115.msg154907#msg154907 | |
| date=1527986348] | |
| Golden Oxen, if you actually believed that hell existed, you | |
| would not repeat your TOO OFTEN repeated braggadocio about how | |
| rich you are and how all of us "saints" will get our "reward in | |
| heaven" while you "end up in Hell". | |
| [center][img | |
| width=370] | |
| https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/458746798270447616/U-eXuzjf.jpeg[/img][/ce… | |
| Yeah, that's true. BUT, YOU DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF IT! | |
| [center]Golden Oxen does not like to have his life style | |
| questioned (see below):[/center] | |
| [center] | |
| http://image.blingee.com/images17/content/output/000/000/000/6a0/604681651_7393… | |
| [/quote] | |
| Your correct Agelbert, I don't believe there is a hell for | |
| people who do not want to spend their life and their families | |
| being poor. | |
| Nor a heaven for those who became poor through drugs and boozing | |
| and partying. | |
| Nice talking to you Anthony, GO | |
| [/quote] | |
| [center] [img | |
| width=100] | |
| http://pm1.narvii.com/5869/6a64193d6770c3afd17406c78686c0eda32ded1c_hq.jpg[/img… | |
| How cleverly reductionist of you. Cut the bullshit, GO. You | |
| don't have ANY conditions on your NONbelief in the existence of | |
| Hell or Heaven. Your vulgar, empathy deficit disordered | |
| stereotype demonising of the poor is typical of your rather | |
| limited empathy for disadvantaged people, none of which have | |
| abandoned their family or partied, but have been subjected to | |
| social injustices you deliberately pretend are not there. Your | |
| clever positioning of your greed based life style as "worthy" of | |
| Heaven because you are "just taking care of your family", not | |
| worshipping your STUFF while you rationalize that those who have | |
| it "deserve" it and those who don't have it "deserve" not to | |
| have it. | |
| THIS is your Hell deserving religion, Mr. Golden Oxen: | |
| [quote][font=times new roman]"Capitalist ideology claims that | |
| the world is perfectly ordered and everybody is in their place | |
| (i.e. everybody gets what they deserve). This self legitmating | |
| aspect of Capitalism is Socially Catastrophic. This is the | |
| Victorian view of the world." Rob Urie - Author " Zen | |
| Economics"[/font][/quote] | |
| Sir, you don't believe there is a hell, PERIOD. If you did, you | |
| would not routinely work so hard to earn a place there. Have a | |
| nice day. | |
| #Post#: 9869-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: June 11, 2018, 5:11 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Surly1 link=topic=1279.msg155690#msg155690 | |
| date=1528740631] | |
| [center]They're 👹 Not Even Trying to Hide It Anymore | |
| https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a21271456/supreme-court-ohio-vot… | |
| [/center] | |
| [/quote] | |
| Yep. :( | |
| The racist bastards never stop doing what they do. As they get | |
| more confident of their power, they become more in-our-faces | |
| about brazenly doing what those evil bastards have ALWAYS done | |
| since ancient times, when they could get away with it. | |
| [quote][font=times new roman]There is a generation that are pure | |
| in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. | |
| There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their | |
| eyelids are lifted up. | |
| There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw | |
| teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the | |
| needy from among men. | |
| Proverbs 30:12-14 [/font][/quote] | |
| #Post#: 10646-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: August 18, 2018, 7:33 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote][font=times new roman]2 Timothy 3:1-5 King James Version | |
| (KJV) | |
| 1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall | |
| come. | |
| 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, | |
| boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, | |
| unthankful, unholy, | |
| 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, | |
| incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, | |
| 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than | |
| lovers of God; | |
| 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: | |
| from such turn away.[/font][/quote] | |
| [center]Child Abuse, the Catholic Church and the Justice of Real | |
| Consequences [img | |
| width=40] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-13041… | |
| />[/center] | |
| August 18, 2018 | |
| William Rivers Pitt, Truthout: Due to the actions of the | |
| institution�s leadership and the priests who have committed | |
| unfathomable crimes against children, Catholic churches in the | |
| United States have surrendered their moral right to remain in | |
| operation until this matter is resolved down to the last detail, | |
| the last victim and the last collaborator. At long last, it is | |
| enough. | |
| Full EXCELLENT article: [img | |
| width=50] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-13041… | |
| /> | |
| https://truthout.org/articles/child-abuse-the-catholic-church-and-the-justice-o… | |
| #Post#: 10674-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: August 29, 2018, 12:24 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [center][img | |
| width=640] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-03031… | |
| Agelbert NOTE: There is a special place in Hell for world class | |
| hypocrites like "Dr." James Dobson, who once fooled me into | |
| believing he was a brother in Christ. :( | |
| [center]The hypocrisy of white evangelicals [/center] | |
| By Ren�e Graham GLOBE COLUMNIST JULY 24, 2018 | |
| WHEN THEN-PRESIDENT Bill Clinton [img | |
| width=20] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png[/img… | |
| />lied in 1998 about an affair with White House intern Monica | |
| Lewinsky, Christian extremist James Dobson [img | |
| width=20] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png[/img… | |
| />declared it was �foolish to believe that a person who lacks | |
| honesty and moral integrity is qualified to lead a nation and | |
| the world!� Under Clinton, Dobson, founder of Focus on the | |
| Family, warned that America was facing �a profound moral | |
| crisis.� | |
| Fast-forward two decades. We�re chest deep in a profound moral | |
| crisis, and every other kind of crisis you dare imagine. Yet, | |
| like most of his fellow evangelicals, Dobson is as silent as a | |
| church mouse about the White House�s current occupant, a man | |
| [img | |
| width=20] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-25081… | |
| />who breaks at least three of the Ten Commandments every day. | |
| [center]Never underestimate the hypocrisy | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-04071… | |
| />width=80] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-19031… | |
| />of white evangelicals. [img | |
| width=80] | |
| http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1375371542_tumblr_m7jevgcaFm1qzqdem.gif[/img] | |
| [/center] | |
| With his multiple marriages and affairs, penchant for grandiose | |
| lies, and general indifference to normal adult behavior, | |
| President Trump[img | |
| width=40] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013200859.png[/img… | |
| />should represent what white evangelicals claim to despise. | |
| Instead, he received 81 percent of their vote, and their support | |
| is unfailing. | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-210… | |
| />[img | |
| width=50] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-25081… | |
| It�s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than | |
| to find any evangelical handwringing about whether Trump�s [img | |
| width=70] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-27011… | |
| />moral turpitude renders him unfit to govern. [img | |
| width=70] | |
| https://allthoughtsworkoutdoors.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/p9047017-030close-u… | |
| /> | |
| https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/07/24/the-hypocrisy-white-evangelicals… | |
| [center][img | |
| width=640] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-30121… | |
| #Post#: 10857-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: October 10, 2018, 3:34 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [center]Donald Trump [img | |
| width=70] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-27011… | |
| />and the prosperity [img | |
| width=50] | |
| http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Spiele/smilie_game_017.gif[/img][img<br | |
| />width=40] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013200859.png[/img… | |
| Robert Harrington [img | |
| width=40] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120… | |
| />| 12:12 pm EDT October 10, 2018 | |
| [font=times new roman]Palmer Report [/font]� Analysis | |
| When last year CNN fired sometime commentator and full time | |
| religious studies scholar Reza Aslan for tweeting that Donald | |
| Trump was a �piece of s h i t,� one was left to wonder if it was | |
| because he employed a profanity in describing the President of | |
| the United States, or merely because he committed the | |
| journalistic heresy of stating the obvious. Whichever it was, | |
| one cannot also help but wonder if CNN knew not what it did. For | |
| it was also about that time that Aslan put his perspicacious | |
| finger on the not-so-obvious reasons why �the Donald� has | |
| gathered unto himself so rabid a following, and how, after all | |
| this time, that following appears to have remained bafflingly | |
| loyal. | |
| The good news is the aforementioned following we are concerned | |
| with here is at least confined to the pulpits and pews of white | |
| fundamentalist Christians. Were it not for Aslan, the question | |
| of why Trump should gain such popularity with such a group might | |
| remain an ostensible head scratcher. But for this recipe for | |
| Dragon Stew, Aslan actually provides us with a plausible dragon: | |
| Donald Trump is a religious cult. | |
| That cult comes compliments of something called �the prosperity | |
| gospel.� The idea goes that the more righteous a man is, the | |
| more God blesses him with material wealth. Trump�s ostentatious | |
| trappings of wealth are the obvious proof that God must think | |
| Trump a pretty groovy guy. | |
| Some of the cynical among us noticed that �the prosperity | |
| gospel� started to appear right around the same time that the | |
| dorsal fins of the big-haired, Rolex-wearing televangelists | |
| started to cut the water. Mansions needed sanctification, luxury | |
| cars and private jets required the consecration of Elijah�s | |
| chariots of fire. The prosperity gospel gave the perfect fit. | |
| �But none of this � explains the most important phenomenon about | |
| white evangelicals in America,� Aslan says, �and that is this: | |
| In the span of a single election cycle, white evangelicals have | |
| gone from being the group in America that is most likely to say | |
| that a politician�s morality matters to the group that is now | |
| least likely to say that.� | |
| In other words, the cult of personality surrounding Donald Trump | |
| has managed in a single election cycle to convince good people | |
| that doing bad things is okay. The last time we witnessed a | |
| phenomenon like that was when a community of Americans settled | |
| in a little regarded country called Guyana led by a little known | |
| evangelical named Jim Jones. This time the stakes are much, much | |
| higher. | |
| Click here to help fund Palmer Report's editorial effort to take | |
| Donald Trump down | |
| Be sure to follow Palmer Report on Facebook and Twitter, and | |
| sign up for our mailing list. | |
| Robert Harrington [img width=25 | |
| height=30] | |
| http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png[/img… | |
| />is an American expat living in Britain. He is a portrait | |
| painter. | |
| https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/prosperity-gospel-donald-trump/13333/ | |
| Agelbert NOTE: The Heretical Doctrine of Demons called | |
| "Prosperity Preaching" (a principle tenet of the Antinomian | |
| Christian Heretical teaching), that the pseudo-Christians in the | |
| USA are enthralled with, is thousands of years old. | |
| [quote]an�ti�no�mi�an | |
| [an-ti- noh-mee- uhn] | |
| NOUN | |
| a person who maintains that Christians are freed from the moral | |
| law by virtue of grace as set forth in the gospel.[/quote] | |
| I have a deceased brother-in-law who worshipped monetary wealth | |
| above any Christian duty to help the disadvantaged and poor of | |
| this world. He thought it was A-OKAY to be GREEDY, as his wife | |
| (my sister, also a Mammon worshipping Pseudo-Christian) still, | |
| unfortunately for her, does. | |
| In the Epistle II Peter in the New Testament, Peter addresses | |
| the Antinomians who claimed to be Christians. These Heretics | |
| were defined by their insistance that it was okay to sin to get | |
| more money and wantonly engage in just about any worldly lust | |
| they wanted to engage in based on a deliberate twisting of the | |
| Holy Scripture (SEE Paul: "We are saved by Grace, not works"). | |
| Peter makes it crystal clear that claiming to be a Christian and | |
| chasing money, comfort, power and the lusts of the flesh is | |
| HERESY. Anyone practicing it is doomed to perdition, period. | |
| [quote][font=times new roman]II PETER 2: 17-22 | |
| 17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with | |
| a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18 | |
| For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure | |
| through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those | |
| that were clean [5] escaped from them who live in error. 19 | |
| While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the | |
| servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the | |
| same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have | |
| escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the | |
| Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, | |
| and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the | |
| beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known | |
| the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to | |
| turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it | |
| is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is | |
| turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to | |
| her wallowing in the mire.[/font][/quote] | |
| [center][img | |
| width=640] | |
| https://ofcommonsense.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/free-choice-not-consequences.… | |
| #Post#: 10901-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible | |
| By: AGelbert Date: October 17, 2018, 10:00 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [center][img | |
| width=640] | |
| https://renner.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/eTL-Header_Sep-18.jpg[/img][/cent… | |
| SNIPPET: | |
| [quote]earlofhuntingdon says: | |
| October 17, 2018 at 11:18 am | |
| Yep, more wishing from lawyers for Trump, hoping that a | |
| troubling prosecution will go away. The meme also serves to | |
| distract the Don about how this will all go away by the end of | |
| the week/month/Friedman unit. Giuliani has been peddling that s | |
| h i t for months. | |
| Nothing�s �going away� if Mueller announces a series of | |
| indictments. That just turns the heat on the Trump frying pan. | |
| This relates to the question the MSM seems to be breathlessly | |
| asking itself: Why is Trump making this mid-term election about | |
| him? | |
| Does the MSM have the same vacant memory as Donald Trump? | |
| Everything is about Trump, just as the Kavanaugh �win� was all | |
| about his intervention. Donald Trump could not permit an | |
| election to be about anything but him. It occupies the press | |
| for months. | |
| He needs to frame the issues, too. Just as he needs to distract | |
| from the fact that he cannot do the job he endlessly campaigns | |
| for, but makes money from. That would include the opportunity | |
| to raise mountains of �campaign� cash. | |
| The press just noting the dollar amounts raised adds no value. | |
| What would add value would be investigative reporting on whose | |
| coffers it ends up in and what it�s spent on. Such as painfully | |
| expensive criminal defense lawyers for close associates of | |
| Donald J. Trump. | |
| Lee says: | |
| October 17, 2018 at 7:50 pm | |
| �Everything is about Trump, just as the Kavanaugh �win� was all | |
| about his intervention. Donald Trump could not permit an | |
| election to be about anything but him.� | |
| It has always interested me how so many people who think of | |
| themselves as Christian could miss the overwhelming resemblance | |
| of Donald J Trump [img | |
| width=20] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-25081… | |
| />to every biblical and theological description of the Devil, as | |
| someone who wants to dominate the whole universe, to be the | |
| center of everything. It brings to mind the words of C.S. | |
| Lewis�s character Screwtape, a demon writing to his nephew | |
| Wormwood about their war against God: �We want cattle who can | |
| finally become food; He (God) wants servants who can finally | |
| become sons. We want to suck in, He wants to give out. We are | |
| empty and would be filled; He is full and flows over. Our war | |
| aim is a world in which Our Father Below has drawn all other | |
| beings into himself: the Enemy wants a world full of beings | |
| united to Him but still distinct.� | |
| I can�t think of a more apt personification of �our Father | |
| Below� than Donald Trump. Just FWIW. [/quote] | |
| Read more: | |
| https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/10/17/on-corey-lewandowskis-big-legal-bills-and… | |
| [center][img | |
| width=640] | |
| http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-30121… | |
| ***************************************************** | |
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