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| #Post#: 3874-------------------------------------------------- | |
| The Catholic Church | |
| By: CatholicCrusader Date: May 5, 2018, 8:49 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Source: | |
| [URL= | |
| https://www.catholic.com/tract/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth]https://www.catho… | |
| [COLOR=Navy]WHETHER or not you are Catholic, you may have | |
| questions about the Catholic faith. You may have heard | |
| challenges to the Catholic Church�s claim to be the interpreter | |
| and safeguard of the teachings of Jesus Christ. | |
| Such challenges come from door-to-door missionaries who ask, | |
| "Are you saved?", from peer pressure that urges you to ignore | |
| the Church�s teachings, from a secular culture that whispers | |
| "There is no God" | |
| You can�t deal with these challenges unless you understand the | |
| basics of the Catholic faith. This booklet introduces them to | |
| you. | |
| In Catholicism you will find answers to life�s most troubling | |
| questions: Why am I here? Who made me? What must I believe? How | |
| must I act? All these can be answered to your satisfaction, if | |
| only you will open yourself to God�s grace, turn to the Church | |
| he established, and follow his plan for you (John 7:17). | |
| [B]AN UNBROKEN HISTORY[/B] | |
| Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then | |
| noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). | |
| This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have | |
| characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it | |
| from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and | |
| the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). | |
| This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will | |
| never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his | |
| return. | |
| Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has | |
| existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is | |
| an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox | |
| churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The | |
| Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, | |
| which began in 1517. (Most of today�s Protestant churches are | |
| actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.) | |
| Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the | |
| fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the | |
| doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The | |
| line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to | |
| Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history. | |
| Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and | |
| the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young | |
| compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as | |
| recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even | |
| began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the | |
| Church Jesus established. | |
| The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite | |
| constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the | |
| Church�s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human | |
| organization, especially considering that its human members� | |
| even some of its leaders�have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to | |
| heresy. | |
| Any merely human organization with such members would have | |
| collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most | |
| vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion | |
| members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not | |
| to the cleverness of the Church�s leaders, but to the protection | |
| of the Holy Spirit. | |
| [B]FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH[/B] | |
| If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to | |
| locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his | |
| Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and | |
| apostolic. | |
| [B]The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)[/B] | |
| Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing | |
| churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible | |
| says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23�32). Jesus can | |
| have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. | |
| His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be | |
| the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the | |
| unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). | |
| Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught | |
| doctrines, the Church�s official teachers�the pope and the | |
| bishops united with him�have never changed any doctrine. Over | |
| the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church | |
| comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12�13), but it | |
| never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once | |
| meant. | |
| [B]The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25�27, Rev. 19:7� 8 ) [/B] | |
| By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. | |
| This doesn�t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said | |
| there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John | |
| 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. | |
| 7:21�23). | |
| But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of | |
| holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus | |
| established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26). | |
| [B]The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19�20, Rev. 5:9�10)[/B] | |
| Jesus� Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because | |
| it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go | |
| throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. | |
| 28:19�20). | |
| For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this | |
| mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men | |
| and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal | |
| family (Gal. 3:28). | |
| Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the | |
| world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples | |
| of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). | |
| The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, | |
| "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when | |
| Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church | |
| Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius�s time, | |
| which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the | |
| apostles. | |
| [B]The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19�20)[/B] | |
| The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the | |
| apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their | |
| successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the | |
| first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an | |
| unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the | |
| apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral | |
| Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). | |
| These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real | |
| Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of | |
| the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal | |
| regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary�s special role, | |
| and much more �even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. | |
| Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were | |
| thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the | |
| successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first | |
| Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No | |
| other Church can make that claim. | |
| [B]Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth[/B] | |
| Man�s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained | |
| one, holy, catholic, and apostolic�not through man�s effort, but | |
| because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, | |
| 28:20). | |
| He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving | |
| them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark | |
| wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his | |
| Catholic Church. | |
| The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest | |
| Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus� | |
| authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each | |
| clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the | |
| Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and | |
| foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15). | |
| Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and | |
| the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who | |
| rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide | |
| his Church into all truth (John 16:12�13). We can have | |
| confidence that his Church teaches only the truth. | |
| [/COLOR] | |
| [I][COLOR=#000000]Continued.......[/COLOR][/I] | |
| #Post#: 3875-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: The Catholic Church | |
| By: Kerry Date: May 5, 2018, 2:40 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote]Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught | |
| doctrines, the Church�s official teachers�the pope and the | |
| bishops united with him�have never changed any doctrine. Over | |
| the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church | |
| comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12�13), but it | |
| never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once | |
| meant.[/quote]This is a bold claim. Would you care to take a | |
| look at the Canons of the First Council of Nicea to see what was | |
| accepted then and to compare them to what is taught now? | |
| We could start with the last one -- I see doctrine in | |
| practices. Change the practices, and you may have changed some | |
| doctrines. | |
| 20. Since there are some who kneel on Sunday and during the | |
| season of Pentecost, this holy synod decrees | |
| that, so that the same observances may be maintained in every | |
| diocese, one should offer one's prayers to | |
| the Lord standing. | |
| I believe standing when praying is also Biblical. Standing in | |
| the presence of the Heavenly King shows respect. Yet today | |
| many people pray kneeling; and many places of worship have | |
| pews. | |
| If you assert this is a matter of practice only, it is still | |
| problematical since the Orthodox Church disagreed for hundreds | |
| of years with the Catholic Church over this. It became a source | |
| of division when the Catholic Church departed from the agreement | |
| reached in Nicea. | |
| #Post#: 3876-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: The Catholic Church | |
| By: CatholicCrusader Date: May 5, 2018, 7:05 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Kerry link=topic=539.msg3875#msg3875 | |
| date=1525549203] | |
| This is a bold claim. Would you care to take a look at the | |
| Canons of the First Council of Nicea to see what was accepted | |
| then and to compare them to what is taught now? | |
| We could start with the last one -- I see doctrine in | |
| practices. Change the practices, and you may have changed some | |
| doctrines. | |
| 20. Since there are some who kneel on Sunday and during the | |
| season of Pentecost, this holy synod decrees | |
| that, so that the same observances may be maintained in every | |
| diocese, one should offer one's prayers to | |
| the Lord standing. | |
| I believe standing when praying is also Biblical. Standing in | |
| the presence of the Heavenly King shows respect. Yet today | |
| many people pray kneeling; and many places of worship have | |
| pews. | |
| If you assert this is a matter of practice only, it is still | |
| problematical since the Orthodox Church disagreed for hundreds | |
| of years with the Catholic Church over this. It became a source | |
| of division when the Catholic Church departed from the agreement | |
| reached in Nicea. | |
| [/quote] | |
| This is a softball. Thank you. Standing and kneeling are not a | |
| matter of "doctrine". They change from country to country | |
| depending on accepted Liturgical practices in those regions. So, | |
| no doctrine was changed. | |
| Many people have difficulty differentiating levels and types of | |
| Catholic teachings and practices. "Doctrines" are universal, and | |
| infallibly defined doctrines are Dogmas. | |
| Then there are various traditions and disciplines which can | |
| change, some univerals, some regional. | |
| Example: Celibacy for Latin Rite priests is universal, but its | |
| just a discipline, which means a pope can change it anytime he | |
| wants to. | |
| You moderate Catholic discussion? Shouldn't you know the basics | |
| if you do that? | |
| #Post#: 3877-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: The Catholic Church | |
| By: CatholicCrusader Date: May 5, 2018, 7:09 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [SIZE=3][B][I]Continued from the first post.......[/I][/B] | |
| [COLOR=#0000b3][B]THE STRUCTURE OF THE CHURCH[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE] | |
| [COLOR=#0000b3] | |
| Jesus chose the apostles to be the earthly leaders of the | |
| Church. He gave them his own authority to teach and to | |
| govern�not as dictators, but as loving pastors and fathers. That | |
| is why Catholics call their spiritual leaders "father." In doing | |
| so we follow Paul�s example: "I became your father in Jesus | |
| Christ through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:15). | |
| The apostles, fulfilling Jesus� will, ordained bishops, priests, | |
| and deacons and thus handed on their apostolic ministry to | |
| them�the fullest degree of ordination to the bishops, lesser | |
| degrees to the priests and deacons. | |
| [/COLOR] | |
| [B][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000b3]The Pope and | |
| Bishops[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] | |
| [COLOR=#0000b3]Jesus gave Peter special authority among the | |
| apostles (John 21:15�17) and signified this by changing his name | |
| from Simon to Peter, which means "rock" (John 1:42). He said | |
| Peter was to be the rock on which he would build his Church | |
| (Matt. 16:18). | |
| In Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, Simon�s new name was | |
| [I]Kepha[/I] (which means a massive rock). Later this name was | |
| translated into Greek as [I]Petros[/I] (John 1:42) and into | |
| English as Peter. Christ gave Peter alone the "keys of the | |
| kingdom" (Matt. 16:19) and promised that Peter�s decisions would | |
| be binding in heaven. He also gave similar power to the other | |
| apostles (Matt. 18:18), but only Peter was given the keys, | |
| symbols of his authority to rule the Church on earth in Jesus� | |
| absence. | |
| Christ, the Good Shepherd, called Peter to be the chief shepherd | |
| of his Church (John 21:15�17). He gave Peter the task of | |
| strengthening the other apostles in their faith, ensuring that | |
| they taught only what was true (Luke 22:31�32). Peter led the | |
| Church in proclaiming the gospel and making decisions (Acts 2:1� | |
| 41, 15:7�12). | |
| Early Christian writings tell us that Peter�s successors, the | |
| bishops of Rome (who from the earliest times have been called by | |
| the affectionate title of "pope," which means "papa"), continued | |
| to exercise Peter�s ministry in the Church. | |
| The pope is the successor to Peter as bishop of Rome. The | |
| world�s other bishops are successors to the apostles in general. | |
| [/COLOR] | |
| [SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000b3][B]HOW GOD SPEAKS TO US[/B] | |
| [/COLOR][/SIZE] | |
| [COLOR=#0000b3]As from the first, God speaks to his Church | |
| through the Bible and through sacred Tradition. To make sure we | |
| understand him, he guides the Church�s teaching authority�the | |
| magisterium�so it always interprets the Bible and Tradition | |
| accurately. This is the gift of infallibility. | |
| Like the three legs on a stool, the Bible, Tradition, and the | |
| magisterium are all necessary for the stability of the Church | |
| and to guarantee sound doctrine. | |
| [/COLOR] | |
| [B][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000b3]Sacred Tradition[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] | |
| [COLOR=#0000b3]Sacred Tradition should not be confused with mere | |
| traditions of men, which are more commonly called customs or | |
| disciplines. Jesus sometimes condemned customs or disciplines, | |
| but only if they were contrary to God�s commands (Mark 7: 8 ) . | |
| He never condemned sacred Tradition, and he didn�t even condemn | |
| all human tradition. | |
| Sacred Tradition and the Bible are not different or competing | |
| revelations. They are two ways that the Church hands on the | |
| gospel. Apostolic teachings such as the Trinity, infant baptism, | |
| the inerrancy of the Bible, purgatory, and Mary�s perpetual | |
| virginity have been most clearly taught through Tradition, | |
| although they are also implicitly present in (and not contrary | |
| to) the Bible. The Bible itself tells us to hold fast to | |
| Tradition, whether it comes to us in written or oral form (2 | |
| Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 11:2). | |
| Sacred Tradition should not be confused with customs and | |
| disciplines, such as the rosary, priestly celibacy, and not | |
| eating meat on Fridays in Lent. These are good and helpful | |
| things, but they are not doctrines. Sacred Tradition preserves | |
| doctrines first taught by Jesus to the apostles and later passed | |
| down to us through the apostles� successors, the bishops. | |
| [/COLOR] | |
| [B][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000b3]Sacred Scripture[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] | |
| [COLOR=#0000b3] | |
| Scripture, by which we mean the Old and New Testaments, was | |
| inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16). The Holy Spirit guided the | |
| biblical authors to write what he wanted them to write. Since | |
| God is the principal author of the Bible, and since God is truth | |
| itself (John 14:6) and cannot teach anything untrue, the Bible | |
| is free from all error in everything it asserts to be true. | |
| Some Christians claim, "The Bible is all I need," but this | |
| notion is not taught in the Bible itself. In fact, the Bible | |
| teaches the contrary idea (2 Pet. 1:20�21, 3:15�16). The "Bible | |
| alone" theory was not believed by anyone in the early Church. | |
| It is new, having arisen only in the 1500s during the Protestant | |
| Reformation. The theory is a "tradition of men" that nullifies | |
| the Word of God, distorts the true role of the Bible, and | |
| undermines the authority of the Church Jesus established (Mark | |
| 7:1� 8 ) . | |
| Although popular with many "Bible Christian" churches, the | |
| "Bible alone" theory simply does not work in practice. | |
| Historical experience disproves it. Each year we see additional | |
| splintering among "Bible-believing" religions. | |
| Today there are tens of thousands of competing denominations, | |
| each insisting its interpretation of the Bible is the correct | |
| one. The resulting divisions have caused untold confusion among | |
| millions of sincere but misled Christians. | |
| Just open up the Yellow Pages of your telephone book and see how | |
| many different denominations are listed, each claiming to go by | |
| the "Bible alone," but no two of them agreeing on exactly what | |
| the Bible [I]means[/I]. | |
| We know this for sure: The Holy Spirit cannot be the author of | |
| this confusion (1 Cor. 14:33). God cannot lead people to | |
| contradictory beliefs because his truth is one. The conclusion? | |
| The "Bible alone" theory must be false. | |
| [/COLOR] | |
| [B][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000b3]The Magisterium[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] | |
| [COLOR=#0000b3] | |
| Together the pope and the bishops form the teaching authority of | |
| the Church, which is called the magisterium (from the Latin for | |
| "teacher"). The magisterium, guided and protected from error by | |
| the Holy Spirit, gives us certainty in matters of doctrine. The | |
| Church is the custodian of the Bible and faithfully and | |
| accurately proclaims its message, a task which God has empowered | |
| it to do. | |
| Keep in mind that the Church came before the New Testament, not | |
| the New Testament before the Church. Divinely-inspired members | |
| of the Church wrote the books of the New Testament, just as | |
| divinely-inspired writers had written the Old Testament, and the | |
| Church is guided by the Holy Spirit to guard and interpret the | |
| entire Bible, both Old and New Testaments. | |
| Such an official interpreter is absolutely necessary if we are | |
| to understand the Bible properly. (We all know what the | |
| Constitution [I]says[/I], but we still need a Supreme Court to | |
| interpret what it [I]means[/I].) | |
| The magisterium is infallible when it teaches officially because | |
| Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide the apostles and | |
| their successors "into all truth" (John 16:12�13). | |
| [/COLOR] | |
| [SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000b3][B]HOW GOD DISTRIBUTES HIS | |
| GIFTS[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE] | |
| [COLOR=#0000b3] | |
| Jesus promised he would not leave us orphans (John 14:18) but | |
| would send the Holy Spirit to guide and protect us (John 15:26). | |
| He gave the sacraments to heal, feed, and strengthen us. The | |
| seven sacraments �baptism, the Eucharist, penance (also called | |
| reconciliation or confession), confirmation, holy orders, | |
| matrimony, and the anointing of the sick�are not just symbols. | |
| They are signs that actually convey God�s grace and love. | |
| The sacraments were foreshadowed in the Old Testament by things | |
| that did not actually convey grace but merely symbolized it | |
| (circumcision, for example, prefigured baptism, and the Passover | |
| meal prefigured the Eucharist. When Christ came, he did not do | |
| away with symbols of God�s grace. He supernaturalized them, | |
| energizing them with grace. He made them more than symbols. | |
| God constantly uses material things to show his love and power. | |
| After all, matter is not evil. When he created the physical | |
| universe, everything God created was "very good" (Gen. 1:31). He | |
| takes such delight in matter that he even dignified it through | |
| his own Incarnation (John 1:14). | |
| During his earthly ministry Jesus healed, fed, and strengthened | |
| people through humble elements such as mud, water, bread, oil, | |
| and wine. He could have performed his miracles directly, but he | |
| preferred to use material things to bestow his grace. | |
| In his first public miracle Jesus turned water into wine, at the | |
| request of his mother, Mary (John 2:1�11). He healed a blind man | |
| by rubbing mud on his eyes (John 9:1�7). He multiplied a few | |
| loaves and fish into a meal for thousands (John 6:5�13). He | |
| changed bread and wine into his own body and blood (Matt. 26:26� | |
| 28). Through the sacraments he continues to heal, feed, and | |
| strengthen us.[/COLOR] | |
| [B][I][SIZE=3]Coming next, the "Gifts", which are the Seven | |
| Sacraments[/SIZE][/I][/B] | |
| #Post#: 3878-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: The Catholic Church | |
| By: Kerry Date: May 5, 2018, 10:15 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=CatholicCrusader link=topic=539.msg3876#msg3876 | |
| date=1525565149] | |
| This is a softball. Thank you. Standing and kneeling are not a | |
| matter of "doctrine". They change from country to country | |
| depending on accepted Liturgical practices in those regions. So, | |
| no doctrine was changed.[/quote]A study of the Bible suggests | |
| that standing in the Presence of the Holy is the proper way to | |
| give respect. | |
| [quote]Many people have difficulty differentiating levels and | |
| types of Catholic teachings and practices. "Doctrines" are | |
| universal, and infallibly defined doctrines are Dogmas. | |
| Then there are various traditions and disciplines which can | |
| change, some univerals, some regional. | |
| Example: Celibacy for Latin Rite priests is universal, but its | |
| just a discipline, which means a pope can change it anytime he | |
| wants to.[/quote]The question arises how far any Bishop's | |
| authority extends in the matter of practices once a church | |
| council has ruled on it in order to establish conformity. | |
| The Bishop of Rome or his representative agreed to Canon 20. Up | |
| to that point, I could agree with the argument that standing, | |
| kneeling and even sitting while praying were acceptable. | |
| Bishops had not agreed in a council how best to achieve church | |
| unity. When the Catholic Church altered their practice, they | |
| offended the Orthodox Church whose practice remained that of | |
| standing. Does a Pope's authority extend that far that he can | |
| annul canons established by Ecumenical Councils? Does the | |
| Pope's authority justify altering practices which they had | |
| agreed to before when the altering create rifts or schisms in | |
| the Body of Christ? | |
| [quote]You moderate Catholic discussion? Shouldn't you know the | |
| basics if you do that? | |
| [/quote]That title of moderator was given for the whole forum. | |
| My role as moderator is not to act as the thought police or the | |
| defender of purity of doctrine, my role is to try to keep | |
| things rational and peaceful. | |
| I was aware you might make the point that this was a practice. | |
| My question rests on your point. | |
| I am of the opinion myself that our practices are not as | |
| important as church unity. However, if a Pope signed onto | |
| canons of an ecumenical Council as a way of creating church | |
| unity, then altering course and changing the practice seems | |
| wrong to me if it creates friction and schisms. It also | |
| strikes me as close to breaking an agreement. And more, I | |
| would say the Catholic Church has eroded its own authority by | |
| claiming its ability to lead by altering practices after | |
| reaching agreements about them. | |
| We saw something similar with the establishing of the date for | |
| Easter. Various churches had different ways of calculating it. | |
| The Council of Nicea ruled that everyone should follow the | |
| calendar and system of the Church of Rome. I think that was | |
| probably a good thing. Does it matter what the date is? Not | |
| that much to me, but I can see why early Christians desired | |
| unity among themselves over the matter. | |
| England has two systems side by side, creating problems. One | |
| system had been introduced by the tradition established by St. | |
| John. The other system followed the Roman calendar and system. | |
| When the English debated the matter, they decided (correctly I | |
| think) to follow the Roman system -- not because that calendar | |
| was "right" and St. John's had been wrong. No, it was to show | |
| respect for the role of the Bishops of Rome. | |
| That was established, and then later the Catholics changed their | |
| calendar! Can't you see people throwing up their hands in | |
| despair? After others had altered their practices to be in | |
| unity with Rome, Rome veered off and changed their system. | |
| The Orthodox Church refused to adopt the new calendar; and the | |
| Coptic Orthodox Church was thrown into confusion. The Coptic | |
| Orthodox Church was still asking the Catholic Church about this | |
| last year. Both sides would like to have a unified calendar. | |
| http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-and-coptic-orthodox-patriarch… | |
| 6. This love finds its deepest expression in common prayer. When | |
| Christians pray together, they come to realize that what unites | |
| them is much greater than what divides them. Our longing for | |
| unity receives its inspiration from the prayer of Christ �that | |
| all may be one� (John 17:21). Let us deepen our shared roots in | |
| the one apostolic faith by praying together and by seeking | |
| common translations of the Lord�s Prayer and a common date for | |
| the celebration of Easter. | |
| I think it safe to say too that often practices, if maintained | |
| through history, often demonstrate with great clarity that some | |
| doctrines have been held historically. Consider the great care | |
| that clergy take not to let even one crumb of the Eucharist fall | |
| on the floor. It is a practice, but I can't dismiss it as a | |
| mere practice devoid of doctrine since the reverence shown | |
| demonstrates the belief in the Real Presence. | |
| Similarly I can not dismiss the historical evidence of the early | |
| Christians praying for the dead as being devoid of doctrine. | |
| The practice of praying for the dead is evidence for me of a | |
| doctrine. | |
| As for the celibacy of the clergy? Is this a practice that a | |
| Pope can make decisions about? Who should be a Bishop? Paul | |
| said someone who was married and who had demonstrated he knew | |
| how to bring up his own children. | |
| 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of | |
| one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to | |
| hospitality, apt to teach; | |
| 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but | |
| patient, not a brawler, not covetous; | |
| 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in | |
| subjection with all gravity; | |
| 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he | |
| take care of the church of God?) | |
| 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the | |
| condemnation of the devil. | |
| 7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; | |
| lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. | |
| Can a Pope overrule what Paul wrote? I find what Paul wrote as | |
| "sound doctrine." If you're going to pick someone to be a | |
| shepherd over sheep, you do well to choose someone whose life | |
| shows wisdom and gentleness along with strength. Love for the | |
| sheep requires it. | |
| That brings up another canon of Nicene Council about how Bishops | |
| should be selected. The Catholic Church no longer follows | |
| those practices. They also move Bishops around, contrary to the | |
| rules established at Nicea. I was very interested when Pope | |
| Francis started paying attention to the matter -- some priests | |
| are not interested in being a Bishop somewhere they don't like. | |
| They have ambition, always wanting to be promoted. They also | |
| tend to flatter whoever the current Pope is because he often | |
| plays a role in promotions by translation. Sad to say, some | |
| Bishops are more interested in flattering the Pope than in | |
| tending their Bishoprics. | |
| https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/04/03/pope-seminarians-using-church-personal-a… | |
| Do not settle for a worry-free, comfortable life with an | |
| unhealthy attachment to money and an ambitious heart yearning | |
| for honors, Pope Francis told seminarians studying in Rome. | |
| �I�m telling you this as a brother, father and friend. Please, | |
| shun ecclesial careerism. It is a plague. Avoid it,� he said | |
| April 1 during an audience at the Vatican with students, | |
| faculty, staff and alumni of the Pontifical Spanish College of | |
| St. Joseph in Rome. The college was celebrating the 125th | |
| anniversary of its founding. | |
| I wish him well in trying to root out this kind of careerism. | |
| I'd suggest returning to the practice agreed to at Nicea. Some | |
| practices make sense and should not be changed. People in Rome | |
| should not be making decisions at the local level of who is | |
| elected Bishop or of moving Bishops around. It's not practical | |
| for one thing; and it's ignoring the canons of Nicea which were | |
| written to protect the Church as well as to create unity. | |
| Apostles move around. Bishops should stay put and tend their | |
| flocks. I take the idea of Bishop as shepherd as good doctrine; | |
| so I see moving Bishops around as undermining that doctrine. | |
| Pope Francis also been talking about allowing married clergy. | |
| Good for him. I would go further and would implement the advice | |
| of St. Paul that required someone to be married in order to be | |
| promoted to Bishop. Setting aside what Paul wrote and | |
| asserting that a Pope can differ with him because it's "only a | |
| practice" has led to various problems in the Catholic Church | |
| that has damaged its reputation by creating scandal. The | |
| measure to judge practices by is love. Does a practice work to | |
| establish order, unity, and love? If so, it's a good practice; | |
| if not, it should be changed. Departing from past practices | |
| can contain perils. | |
| #Post#: 3879-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: The Catholic Church | |
| By: CatholicCrusader Date: May 6, 2018, 12:28 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| I just realized, you are the only person posting here. Is that | |
| correct? | |
| #Post#: 3880-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: The Catholic Church | |
| By: Kerry Date: May 6, 2018, 2:05 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=CatholicCrusader link=topic=539.msg3879#msg3879 | |
| date=1525627715] | |
| I just realized, you are the only person posting here. Is that | |
| correct? | |
| [/quote]Not exactly, no. Clark Thompson posts things. If you | |
| post to him, he doesn't usually answer back; but I decided to | |
| keep the forum open as long as he wanted to keep using it. I | |
| haven't been posting here and was surprised when you showed up | |
| since I had no idea how you found out about it. | |
| If you're looking for an active forum, you may want to | |
| reconsider your plans since you won't see much activity here. | |
| ***************************************************** |