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| #Post#: 1230-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: What do I no longer 'believe'? | |
| By: Poppy Date: April 19, 2015, 4:35 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Obviously the books in the bible were written by men but Jesus | |
| believed the OT scriptures to be the word of God so I do too. | |
| #Post#: 1232-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: What do I no longer 'believe'? | |
| By: A nonny mouse Date: April 19, 2015, 5:21 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Poppy link=topic=133.msg1230#msg1230 | |
| date=1429436113] | |
| Obviously the books in the bible were written by men but Jesus | |
| believed the OT scriptures to be the word of God so I do too. | |
| [/quote] | |
| But how do you know that? | |
| Jesus never committed a single word to writing (is that of no | |
| significance?). | |
| All that you have is the writings of scribes based on the | |
| apostles best recall of what they had heard decades earlier | |
| (that being why their accounts differed one from the other). | |
| And who's to say those scribes had no 'religious' agendas based | |
| on what Jesus might have 'come' in order to straighten out? | |
| Take "Jesus of Nazareth" as an example....I've just been reading | |
| that Nazareth didn't exist until 3 centuries after Christ (the | |
| writer concluding that the notion was fabricated by the scribes | |
| of that period). | |
| Might that be true?.....I've absolutely no idea. | |
| #Post#: 1233-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: What do I no longer 'believe'? | |
| By: Poppy Date: April 19, 2015, 5:46 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| So when Jesus quote OT scripture prophecy and the NT writers who | |
| were his close followers did you're saying they were mistaken in | |
| thinking they were quoting Spirit inspired writings. | |
| #Post#: 1234-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: What do I no longer 'believe'? | |
| By: Kerry Date: April 19, 2015, 6:48 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=James link=topic=133.msg1216#msg1216 | |
| date=1429394360] | |
| I wonder if you vowed never to follow man again and as such will | |
| not aline yourself with any general truth on the basis that you | |
| want a distinctive doctrine that sets you apart from your fellow | |
| man. You even revel in such a position calling yourself a | |
| heretic, by which you say I am not as other men are.[/quote] | |
| I wondered the same thing. I would say I have followed what I | |
| would call false teachers in the past. What should my reaction | |
| be, I asked myself, when it became clear to me they were in | |
| error? | |
| I believe I profited by the experiences. Even though the spin | |
| they put on the Scriptures was often wrong, I was still learning | |
| the texts themselves. This was valuable to me later just as | |
| Paul's studies before he became a Christian proved useful to him | |
| later. | |
| I believe God allowed me to be steered in the wrong direction to | |
| chastise me. There was something wrong with me that wanted the | |
| wrong kind of answers. I was like the children of Israel when | |
| they demanded a king. God allowed me to have what I wanted. | |
| Rather than condemn them, I had to ask what was wrong with me | |
| for picking them as leaders. This question may be the one Mike | |
| needs to ask himself. | |
| #Post#: 1235-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: What do I no longer 'believe'? | |
| By: A nonny mouse Date: April 19, 2015, 6:49 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Poppy link=topic=133.msg1233#msg1233 | |
| date=1429440373] | |
| So when Jesus quote OT scripture prophecy and the NT writers who | |
| were his close followers did you're saying they were mistaken in | |
| thinking they were quoting Spirit inspired writings. | |
| [/quote] | |
| But did they really do that or is it just what others reckoned | |
| they had done? | |
| I consider that my questioning have as much credibility as do | |
| your questionings regarding the credibility of the Catholic | |
| Catechisms based on when they were written. | |
| You are a Protestant no naturally you 'protest' against | |
| Catholicism. | |
| I too am A Protestant (but with a difference in that I am | |
| 'protesting' against both Catholicism and against Reformation | |
| Protestantism). | |
| For me the whole 'shooting match' from Genesis onwards, is of | |
| man's fabrication and is therefore bound to be party correct and | |
| partly wrong (not least on the basis of the limited knowledge | |
| and superstitious nature of the earliest writers). | |
| But I believe Sovereign God has always maintained overall | |
| control with his major intervention being the Incarnation of | |
| Christ resolving all needed knowledge, and hitherto excessive | |
| imaginings, into the simple common denominator of Love. | |
| Otherwise what is true and what is false out of what has been | |
| written remains unclear to us at this present time. | |
| #Post#: 1236-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: What do I no longer 'believe'? | |
| By: A nonny mouse Date: April 19, 2015, 6:58 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Kerry link=topic=133.msg1234#msg1234 | |
| date=1429444104] | |
| I believe God allowed me to be steered in the wrong direction to | |
| chastise me. There was something wrong with me that wanted the | |
| wrong kind of answers. I was like the children of Israel when | |
| they demanded a king. God allowed me to have what I wanted. | |
| Rather than condemn them, I had to ask what was wrong with me | |
| for picking them as leaders. This question may be the one Mike | |
| needs to ask himself. | |
| [/quote] | |
| I wouldn't be where I am today were it not for my total open | |
| mindedness towards radical rethinking. | |
| Only a few moments ago I allowed myself a degree of | |
| re-examination as I read through | |
| http://www.pathguy.com/jesus/ | |
| Who else is open minded enough to even bother to read it it | |
| right through? | |
| #Post#: 1243-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: What do I no longer 'believe'? | |
| By: Amadeus Date: April 19, 2015, 9:02 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Way of the Spirit link=topic=133.msg1160#msg1160 | |
| date=1429175980] | |
| Here I am, tucked away in my own little corner where members who | |
| are 'offended' by the current radically minded 'me' can opt out | |
| and leave me to my personal 'heresies'.[/quote] | |
| [font=courier][size=14pt]And just what is a heresy, Mike? Is | |
| there only one absolute standard or do different persons and/or | |
| groups have their own definitions? Consider truth? According to | |
| what I believe there is really only one absolute truth, but | |
| obviously men seem to have many. Is it not so with heresies as | |
| well?[/font] | |
| [quote]If there is indeed but one true God then to my way of | |
| thinking/believing he has to be �God of the entire universe� and | |
| not just the 'God of Israel', adopted by Western Christendom. | |
| (By 'God of the entire universe' I mean �universe� as we | |
| currently understand it, as distinct from 'God of the universe' | |
| that was limited to the Hebrew/Egyptian confines of the | |
| 15th-11th century BC.)[/quote] | |
| [font=courier]Many probably fit into the boxes you have | |
| described, but do not some (in addition to yourself) think a bit | |
| outside of the box even if they do not deny the tenets of some | |
| within your defined boxes? Who is really alone? And who is | |
| really not alone?[/font] | |
| [quote]In my �book� myths and fables such as those of the | |
| Genesis creation and Noah�s Ark stories have no more | |
| authenticity than do the fables surrounding the �Pillars of | |
| Hercules�, purporting the world to be �flat�, off the edge of | |
| which sailors would fall if daring to venture beyond the | |
| Straights of Gibraltar. | |
| That being the extent of the knowledge of our cosmos that | |
| limited those who wrote what we call the old Testament.[/quote] | |
| [font=courier]Why do you call any of those stories myths and | |
| fables? You were apparently not around at the of the mentioned | |
| stories so why not rather at worst hold them in abeyance rather | |
| than throw into a seemingly fictional pot? | |
| Why would a really omnipotent God be unable to control what is | |
| written and assure that what He wants to convey is conveyed | |
| through the writings of men? You wish to make no distinction | |
| between groups of stories, but what if the omnipotent God | |
| does?[/font] | |
| [quote]�Man�, (including Moses and the Prophets) has, in my | |
| opinion, always had the propensity to respond to his inner | |
| conviction of an unknown paranormal realm by �creating� God in | |
| his own image/imagination and committing his imaginings to �holy | |
| writings�.[/quote] | |
| [font=courier] | |
| Even if man has 'created' a god or gods as you say, why could | |
| God (an omnipotent God) use such creations to leave a record of | |
| discernable truth (the only real truth)?[/font] | |
| [quote]Christ (in my opinion) came to correct all such | |
| imaginings, replacing such writings with the one single law of | |
| �Love� written (if I might indulge in a borrowed phrase of | |
| Christendom) only in the �fleshy tables of man�s heart�.[/quote] | |
| [font=courier]While I might agree in part with your statement, | |
| would this really mean that an omnipotent God could not or would | |
| not use the very "imaginings" of men to accomplish His | |
| purposes?[/font] | |
| [quote]Man however, as is his wont, reverted to his propensity | |
| to create God in his own image and, shortly after the death of | |
| Christ, immediately began to reverse the purpose of Christ�s | |
| �mission� by reviving and adding to man�s earliest �holy | |
| writings� in the form of a new composite holy text book.[/quote] | |
| [font=courier]Whatever man has done or is doing that works as | |
| you say, how could any such doing really confuse the purpose of | |
| an omnipotent God purposes? Of course individuals could [as they | |
| always have] go their own way, but who can change God's Word? | |
| Changing the translation or the superficial meanings is hardly | |
| changing the Word of God, is it? People who understanding even | |
| in a measure what God's Word really is, should not be affected | |
| by such things... if... they are trusting in God rather than in | |
| their own abilities.[/font] | |
| [quote]So, here we are today, �Christ Within� by means of | |
| �Faith� supplanted by �God in a text book� by means of | |
| �Religion�. | |
| And that (as ironic as you can get) is �this man� having created | |
| God in my own image/imagination. | |
| [/quote] | |
| [font=courier]As I believe it, that which is within a person | |
| that is of God cannot be supplanted by anything that God has not | |
| allowed within His plan. Can man twist what God has created? I | |
| believe so, but again if a person is really leaning on God | |
| rather than on himself, what difference can it make to that | |
| person?[/font] | |
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