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#Post#: 5570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: meshak Date: July 9, 2013, 4:22 pm
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=557.msg5549#msg5549
date=1373337961]
When you sign the paper to get your drivers license you are
swearing to drive while abiding by the law otherwise you risk
punishment by fine and or jail time. Your signature is printed
on your drivers license as proof that you agreed. [/quote]
But you don't have chance of getting killed for having the
license. If you bring up this kind of questions, I will not
answer any more. It is getting old.
[quote]That would be no, you feel that they are selling there
lives. I was speaking about benefits for service, I said nothing
about selling ones life. We can also look at it as rewards for
service.[/quote]
I am taking about having the military or government as your
master, you are taking chance getting killed. You should know
that there are tons of being killed and maimed at the war right
now. sheesh.
[quote]Would you agree that the greater the service is the
greater the reward should be?
[/quote] It is no comparison getting eternal life, out of the
question.
#Post#: 5580--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: George Date: July 10, 2013, 1:28 am
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[quote author=meshak link=topic=557.msg5570#msg5570
date=1373404930]
But you don't have chance of getting killed for having the
license. If you bring up this kind of questions, I will not
answer any more. It is getting old.
[/quote]
Every time you get behind the steering wheel of your car and
drive, you take the chance of being killed, and killing other.
[quote author=meshak link=topic=557.msg5570#msg5570
date=1373404930]
I am taking about having the military or government as your
master, you are taking chance getting killed. You should know
that there are tons of being killed and maimed at the war right
now. sheesh.
[/quote]
There are tons getting killed and maimed every year in car
accidents.
[quote author=meshak link=topic=557.msg5570#msg5570
date=1373404930]
It is no comparison getting eternal life, out of the question.
[/quote]
I wasn't comparing Spiritual rewards to earthly rewards. What I
was asking is strictly in earthly terms do you agree that the
greater the service the greater the reward should be? Should the
janitor make the same salary as the doctor?
#Post#: 5582--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: George Date: July 10, 2013, 2:16 am
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[quote author=meshak link=topic=557.msg5570#msg5570
date=1373404930]
[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=557.msg5549#msg5549
date=1373337961]
When you sign the paper to get your drivers license you are
swearing to drive while abiding by the law otherwise you risk
punishment by fine and or jail time. Your signature is printed
on your drivers license as proof that you agreed. [/quote]
But you don't have chance of getting killed for having the
license. If you bring up this kind of questions, I will not
answer any more. It is getting old.
[/quote]
What does that have to do with swearing? You said in the
military you have to swear, I made the point that when you get a
drivers license you have to swear. You reply but you don't have
a chance of getting killed? Regardless my point is that you
swore. I thought we were talking about swearing, when did the
subject change to risking death? Another thing, I didn't ask any
question, I made a statement.
#Post#: 5607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: meshak Date: July 10, 2013, 5:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=557.msg5582#msg5582
date=1373440580]
[quote author=meshak link=topic=557.msg5570#msg5570
date=1373404930]
[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=557.msg5549#msg5549
date=1373337961]
When you sign the paper to get your drivers license you are
swearing to drive while abiding by the law otherwise you risk
punishment by fine and or jail time. Your signature is printed
on your drivers license as proof that you agreed. [/quote]
But you don't have chance of getting killed for having the
license. If you bring up this kind of questions, I will not
answer any more. It is getting old.
[/quote]
What does that have to do with swearing? You said in the
military you have to swear, I made the point that when you get a
drivers license you have to swear. You reply but you don't have
a chance of getting killed? Regardless my point is that you
swore. I thought we were talking about swearing, when did the
subject change to risking death? Another thing, I didn't ask any
question, I made a statement.
[/quote]
Ok, we agree to disagree.
There are other stuff that Christians are committing if they
approve of the military practice for Christians.
#Post#: 5608--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: George Date: July 10, 2013, 6:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=meshak link=topic=557.msg5607#msg5607
date=1373496828]
Ok, we agree to disagree.
[/quote]
Fair enough. ;)
#Post#: 5609--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: meshak Date: July 10, 2013, 6:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=557.msg5608#msg5608
date=1373498706]
[quote author=meshak link=topic=557.msg5607#msg5607
date=1373496828]
Ok, we agree to disagree.
[/quote]
How about other stuff I listed?
Fair enough. ;)
[/quote]
#Post#: 5610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: George Date: July 10, 2013, 7:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
#2 I can understand your point, I have no reply. Other than it
is unfortunate that, that is the nature of the beast. I question
that one myself. I don't see how the world could operate without
military though. That is a fact, philosophy is just that
philosophy. I would say you have a good argument if you were an
atheist. To say how could religion and government function
together in one world. Which one if it came down to it could we
do without? My answer would have to be religion in order for the
world we live in to be livable. We have to have a military,
religion isn't a necessity to maintain a country. The proof is
in the pudding whether you believe it or not America is not
grounded and did not become the country it is because of
Christianity. In America one is free to worship anyone or
anything they want, or not worship anything at all.
#3 fits with #1 and I hold the same views. While we shouldn't
kill to steal or take over, we have to be able to protect the
innocent, our children, our family, our friends, our neighbor,
even our enemy if it isn't the enemy that is trying to hurt the
innocent. If that makes sense, to you, I know it does for me.
#Post#: 5611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: meshak Date: July 10, 2013, 9:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=557.msg5610#msg5610
date=1373503385]
#2 I can understand your point, I have no reply. Other than it
is unfortunate that, that is the nature of the beast. I question
that one myself. I don't see how the world could operate without
military though. That is a fact, philosophy is just that
philosophy. I would say you have a good argument if you were an
atheist.[/quote]
Argue aginst myself?
[quote]To say how could religion and government function
together in one world. Which one if it came down to it could we
do without?[/quote]
My argument is government and religion don't mix. You are
confused with my claim.
[quote] My answer would have to be religion in order for the
world we live in to be livable. We have to have a military,
religion isn't a necessity to maintain a country. The proof is
in the pudding whether you believe it or not America is not
grounded and did not become the country it is because of
Christianity. In America one is free to worship anyone or
anything they want, or not worship anything at all. [/quote]
There is no solution to world peace because there is not going
to be any peace until Jesus returns. Solution is to have Jesus
but the world don't want Him.
[quote]#3 fits with #1 and I hold the same views. While we
shouldn't kill to steal or take over, we have to be able to
protect the innocent, our children, our family, our friends, our
neighbor, even our enemy if it isn't the enemy that is trying to
hurt the innocent. If that makes sense, to you, I know it does
for me.
[/quote]
Jesus commends us to live without violent. There is not middle
ground for His followers, either you are of this world or of
God.
#Post#: 5613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: George Date: July 11, 2013, 12:37 am
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^ O.K. well I agree to disagree.
#Post#: 5618--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not so pupular threads (1)
By: Kerry Date: July 11, 2013, 8:47 am
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[quote author=George M. C. Jr. link=topic=557.msg5610#msg5610
date=1373503385]
To say how could religion and government function together in
one world. Which one if it came down to it could we do without?
My answer would have to be religion in order for the world we
live in to be livable. We have to have a military, religion
isn't a necessity to maintain a country. The proof is in the
pudding whether you believe it or not America is not grounded
and did not become the country it is because of Christianity. In
America one is free to worship anyone or anything they want, or
not worship anything at all. [/quote]
I don't think we need to do without either; but we should try to
keep them separate. It's a question of what do we owe God
(religion) and what do we owe our fellow man (government).
Man's duty to God is to respect the Source of all that is.
God gave mankind dominion over the earth. We are free to do
with it as we please; and the spiritual problem (if you want to
call it spiritual) is can we ever agree on what to do with it?
I don't think God is going to tell us what to do with it. So my
opinion is that we do owe something to our fellow man; and God
expects us to care enough the world we live in to be good
citizens.
The Covenant of Noah was between God and all mankind, and the
Jews say it is the right and the duty of every nation to
establish laws and courts for the protection of its citizens.
Israel is unique in that God gave them a set of laws; but they
agreed to them at Sinai when taking the vow. God did not impose
that government on them against their free will. What other
nations do is up to them.
Some people want to be ruled by kings or dictators. If they did
not, the kings or dictators could not rule over them. There is
no government on the face of this earth that can rule any people
which does not want to be ruled. There aren't enough policemen
or people in the military to impose the will of a dictator on
such a people.
That is where the concept of sovereignty comes into the picture.
When a government collapses and cannot govern properly, cannot
maintain law and order, it ceases to be sovereign -- according
to current views of international law. Thus the current
situations in Syria and Egypt come to mind. Is anyone really
ruling those countries? Some countries now say the rebels in
Syria are the proper government while others say the Assad
regime still is. When a country collapses like that, it invites
outside interference by other nations trying to establish a
government favorable to them.
Egypt is still experimenting. The old government collapsed, and
in a mad election, they elected an inept Islamist President who
went too far and offended many people who did not want to see
religion imposed on them. Rape, kidnappings, and other crimes
were on the rise as the new regime did not establish law and
order. Then the military intervened again. So the question may
be if they're ready for democracy or if they prefer a strong
ruler. I think I can predict how that will go -- sooner or
later, they will eliminate the role of religion again. There
are too many people there who are used to religious freedom; and
few people want sharia law imposed.
I agree with Meshak that religion and politics shouldn't be
mixed; but I disagree with her when she thinks people should
avoid politics. For me, "false religion" is that religion which
conspires with government. That is what Our Lady of Babylon
does in Revelation -- prostituting herself with governments and
merchants.
Is there anything wrong with governments and merchants? Not if
they do their business. But emphatically yes, in my view, if
they try to use religion as reasons for what they do. I detest
hearing politicians talk about God as if I believe they're good
Christians or good Muslims or whatever religion they say they
are. To me, they're probably crooks hiding behind "nice talk."
I even get turned off when a business advertises their
religion. If you have the best cup of coffee in town, you'll
get my business -- I'm not going to buy inferior coffee from you
just because you tell me your a fine Christian.
I could tell a horror story about a "fine Christian" man who
asked people when he was interviewing them for jobs if they were
Christians. He was one of the biggest crooks around.
I think most people have trouble separating religion and
politics. The history of Christianity is interesting when you
see how things went sour as soon as the Christians starting
imposing their views on other people using the political power
of the Roman government. First, Constantine published the Edict
of Milan which was supposed to grant religious freedom to
everyone, including Christians; but scarcely was the ink dry on
it before he began to tear down pagan temples. Then came the
persecution of the Jews, and the burning of synagogues.
Christianity has been tangled up with politics every since.
Thus it is not enough for some people to avoid birth control if
they think it's a sin; no, they fought tooth and nail to outlaw
it, to impose their values on people who wanted to use birth
control.
Of course, things got really nasty after Martin Luther, when the
kings of Europe were fighting over religion. Millions died.
To me, this is one of mankind's biggest problems -- sorting out
what we owe God and what we owe our fellow man.
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