Introduction
Introduction Statistics Contact Development Disclaimer Help
Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Love God Only
https://lovegodonly.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
Return to: Politics
*****************************************************
#Post#: 31385--------------------------------------------------
Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: KerimF Date: August 14, 2022, 12:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I am afraid that �Democracy, as defined, cannot exist in reality
other than in the ordinary people�s minds.
Yes, I am aware that billions around the world were made to
believe in the existence of democracy in some regions on earth
in the least.
So let us start by its typical definition (I guess it is first
heard from the U.S. President Abraham Lincoln):
"Democracy is a government of the people, by the people, and for
the people."
No one can deny that a government of any type is formed always
by mere mortal humans (surely not by immortal supermen beings).
And let us suppose that, ideally, there are a unified people in
a certain country. And all these unified people managed to
choose the persons (elected from among them, The People) to
represent them in their �democratic� ruling government.
Now the �crucial� question is:
Is it possible for a people, anywhere in the world, to have
'sure' means to protect their beloved persons in their
�democratic� government?
I am afraid that the new comers into life and dreamers only may
believe that this is possible though it cannot be.
Conclusion:
Those who are given the privilege to play the rulers in a
country (said democratic or else) are just actors playing their
various roles that serve the dreams of the powerful rich world�s
Elite. And when a decision is made to get rid of a king, prince,
president or famous leader, the ordinary people are just the
spectators of the event; as in the assassination of the
President Kennedy, the Israeli PM and the Saudi king, to name a
few.
In the past (and in these days too), invasions/occupations were
launched each by certain believers in the name of their God.
Now, invasions/occupations are launched under the pretext of
spreading �Democracy� in the world by using the hands of theists
and atheists as well; very clever indeed.
Anyway, I can�t blame those who believe in the possible
existence of Democracy. Their belief helps them have a
continuous hope of a better future here on earth (as long they
obey the rules); much like the believers who hope that their God
will welcome them in His Paradise (also if they obey His rules).
#Post#: 31390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: Kerry Date: August 14, 2022, 6:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Let me have some time to think about this, Kerim.
#Post#: 31395--------------------------------------------------
Re: Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: KerimF Date: August 15, 2022, 2:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1521.msg31390#msg31390
date=1660521266]
Let me have some time to think about this, Kerim.
[/quote]
Truth be told, I wasn't expecting any comment. You did surprise
me :)
I used noticing that discussion of the notion 'Democracy' is
somehow a taboo for those who live in what is known as the free
world; much like discussing the notion of 'Freedom'. So I acted
as a bad boy by posting this topic since I am the only one here
who doesn't live in the free world ;D
#Post#: 31396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: Kerry Date: August 15, 2022, 5:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=KerimF link=topic=1521.msg31395#msg31395
date=1660548438]
Truth be told, I wasn't expecting any comment. You did surprise
me :)
I used noticing that discussion of the notion 'Democracy' is
somehow a taboo for those who live in what is known as the free
world; much like discussing the notion of 'Freedom'. So I acted
as a bad boy by posting this topic since I am the only one here
who doesn't live in the free world ;D
[/quote]There are days when I wonder how much longer we here in
the USA can claim to live in the free world. Some of the best
news I've seen in months was that a protest against the FBI in
Washington fell flat. "Conservative" media (beats me which
ones) had called for it as a reaction to Trump's home being
raided -- and almost no one showed up. Oops, make that no one.
Zero.
Story here:
https://www.politicususa.com/2022/08/14/trump-fbi-protest-0.html
There is a truth which strikes some as offensive; and that is
that democracy sometimes demands the government take strong
action to protect the majority against violence from a minority.
Trump lost the election; and first we saw the violence on
January 6 against Congress. Now we are seeing more threats of
violence from the same crowd over the fact that the FBI raided
his house.
Donald Trump Junior said it made the USA look like a banana
repubiic. Seriously, he said that. I would say dictators in
real banana republics can get away with anything unless a new
dictator replaces him. Junior also said it was time to go to
war.
https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-compares-us-to-banana-republic-…
Donald Trump Jr., the President's eldest son, has called for
"total war" over election fraud claims and for fellow
Republicans to show support for his father after many have
remained silent.
He tweeted on Thursday: "The best thing for America's future is
for @realDonaldTrump to go to total war over this election to
expose all the fraud cheating, dead/no longer in state voters,
that has been going on for far too long.
"It's time to clean up this mess & stop looking like a banana
republic!"
Now really folks, anyone who loses an election can claim the
other guy cheated. I'm waiting to see how things go in Kenya
where the election is very close. I'm hoping there isn't a
civil war there over it. Back to Trump: He has no evidence
that the election was stolen except he said so. Yet people were
willing to risk violence based on his word -- and he's well
known to tell lots of lies. The fact that a Trump supporter who
attacked the FBI builiding in Ohio wound up dead after a shoot
out with the police may have instilled some respect for the law.
Maybe they thought the chaos on January 6 was fun, the way kids
think driving too fast or drinking too much is fun; but there
the risk was to other people. Some police died; but that didn't
seem to matter to them. It's only when one of their own gets
killed, they start to pay attention.
Any government which does not protect the rule of law is
weakening itself. I believe, really I do, that most people want
to lead peaceful lives; and I say it is the duty of the
government to provide that. If they do not, citizens will start
to lose faith in their government. They may look to other groups
to protect them. The more dangerous things become, the more
people will want a different government and then they will start
supporting rebellion if the rebels' leaders promise them "safety
and security."
I think there's a general principle at work when Paul wrote,
"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden
destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with
child; and they shall not escape."
Trump campaigned on law and order, and he did his best to make
Americans feel threatened -- by the press, by the government, by
minorities and immigrants. He would be our savior, he promised;
and there were several "religious" leaders who hailed him as
being anointed by God.
I think democracy can survive only when most people love their
neighbors and respect them. So what if the guy I voted for
lost? If most people wanted the other guy, shouldn't I respect
their wishes? What I see now are fewer people willilng to
follow the Golden Rule. Hate is being stirred up -- from both
sides, although I think Trump is better at it. And the more
hate and fear are stirred up, the easier it is to get other
people to give up on love and think hate is the only way to
survive.
#Post#: 31398--------------------------------------------------
Re: Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: paralambano Date: August 15, 2022, 7:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Kerim - ^
[quote]Now the �crucial� question is:
Is it possible for a people, anywhere in the world, to have
'sure' means to protect their beloved persons in their
�democratic� government?[/quote]
Nothing much is "assured" in this world but death and taxes,
Kerim. Life's a struggle to preserve what we like best about it,
politically and otherwise, so that it can be passed on for
others after to enjoy.
[quote]I am afraid that the new comers into life and dreamers
only may believe that this is possible though it cannot be
[/quote]
There are ways and means to try to protect those who believe in
democratic principles, however decisions based upon them can
differ. There are checks and balances, laws and authorities to
defend them with the might of the state.
It can be very messy at times and even attempts to undermine
democratic institutions from within and without might occur, but
its system, that is, those things agreed upon by the majority to
be good and worthy of preservation in it need to be defended by
those willing to do so in peril of their lives if need be. I
wouldn't call it hopeless if so. We all apparently go in the
end; it's what we stood for and did before that time that
matters.
[quote]Conclusion:
Those who are given the privilege to play the rulers in a
country (said democratic or else) are just actors playing their
various roles that serve the dreams of the powerful rich world�s
Elite. And when a decision is made to get rid of a king, prince,
president or famous leader, the ordinary people are just the
spectators of the event; as in the assassination of the
President Kennedy, the Israeli PM and the Saudi king, to name a
few.[/quote]
We're all "actors" aren't we? All with our stations and roles.
We try to do what good we can where we're at. Sometimes ordinary
people can make a big difference by coming forward with what
they know.
We're all humans apparently aren't we? Ruling "elites" as you
call them, politicians, kings and commoners, just men and women
who make errors all, all slated for the grave, the great
"equalizer" here apparently.
[quote]In the past (and in these days too),
invasions/occupations were launched each by certain believers in
the name of their God. Now, invasions/occupations are launched
under the pretext of spreading �Democracy� in the world by using
the hands of theists and atheists as well; very clever
indeed.[/quote]
Well, whatever the pretext for invading and occupying, it's
usually presented as some "good" for the invaded and occupied
whatever the political system of the invader might be. And
usually the invader will eventually try to impose their system
on the conquered to whatever degree of success given time to do
so.
[quote]Anyway, I can�t blame those who believe in the possible
existence of Democracy. Their belief helps them have a
continuous hope of a better future here on earth (as long they
obey the rules); much like the believers who hope that their God
will welcome them in His Paradise (also if they obey His
rules).[/quote]
Better hope than despair. I don't think anyone would call
Democracy a perfect system - - just more tolerable than the
rest.
para . . . .
#Post#: 31400--------------------------------------------------
Re: Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: Heartsong Date: August 15, 2022, 10:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=KerimF link=topic=1521.msg31385#msg31385
date=1660496814]
I am afraid that �Democracy, as defined, cannot exist in reality
other than in the ordinary people�s minds.
Yes, I am aware that billions around the world were made to
believe in the existence of democracy in some regions on earth
in the least.
So let us start by its typical definition (I guess it is first
heard from the U.S. President Abraham Lincoln):
"Democracy is a government of the people, by the people, and for
the people."
No one can deny that a government of any type is formed always
by mere mortal humans (surely not by immortal supermen beings).
And let us suppose that, ideally, there are a unified people in
a certain country. And all these unified people managed to
choose the persons (elected from among them, The People) to
represent them in their �democratic� ruling government.
Now the �crucial� question is:
Is it possible for a people, anywhere in the world, to have
'sure' means to protect their beloved persons in their
�democratic� government?
I am afraid that the new comers into life and dreamers only may
believe that this is possible though it cannot be.
Conclusion:
Those who are given the privilege to play the rulers in a
country (said democratic or else) are just actors playing their
various roles that serve the dreams of the powerful rich world�s
Elite. And when a decision is made to get rid of a king, prince,
president or famous leader, the ordinary people are just the
spectators of the event; as in the assassination of the
President Kennedy, the Israeli PM and the Saudi king, to name a
few.
In the past (and in these days too), invasions/occupations were
launched each by certain believers in the name of their God.
Now, invasions/occupations are launched under the pretext of
spreading �Democracy� in the world by using the hands of theists
and atheists as well; very clever indeed.
Anyway, I can�t blame those who believe in the possible
existence of Democracy. Their belief helps them have a
continuous hope of a better future here on earth (as long they
obey the rules); much like the believers who hope that their God
will welcome them in His Paradise (also if they obey His rules).
[/quote]
Since the beginning of time, people have been invading and
conquering and occupying, taking out leaders and rulers, making
many, many people slaves in countries all over the earth,
establishing their own kind of government or rule, and that has
been repeated over and over to the present day. So here we are.
I realize now more than ever that my time on this earth is short
and that I'm just passing through. I don't put my hope in
earthly leaders or rulers or earthly governments. I have no
loyalty to them. They don't dictate how I think, feel and
believe. I refuse to allow that to happen. They don't and
haven't had my approval when they bomb a country and kill
millions of innocent people. I have never supported wars. I have
never been actively involved in politics. But I most certainly
have opinions about politicians and politics. Even though I've
been told that if I am not actively involved in politics that I
have no right to speak my opinions or say anything and that I
need to move to another country. See how people try to pressure
and even force someone to do that. But I am strong willed and I
stand by my decisions and what I believe in. I've always been
that way.
When I make it to the other side one day, and I do believe in
life after this one, .I will be able to say that despite the
odds against me, no matter what was done to me, I didn't allow
hate to fill my heart. I didn't allow the darkness to win. I
tried my best to love people and to do good to others as far as
it was humanly possible. I'm not perfect. The only thing that we
take with us when we pass from this world is love and that is
the only thing that will really matter when we get to the other
side.
#Post#: 31403--------------------------------------------------
Re: Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: paralambano Date: August 15, 2022, 12:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Heartsong - ^
I figure since I gotta pay Muni, Prov, and Fed taxes, and I have
a right to a vote in each, might as well use them.
There was once when I showed up and the person at the desk said
my name wasn't on the voter's list. That was strange since it
never happened before to me (or maybe a long time ago once too),
so they asked for id. I gave my driver's license, they asked a
few questions and gave me my voting card right quick. It took
all of about 3 minutes. If not, I'd have called the Elections
Office to complain about it.
I remember my parents when I was kid getting all dressed up,
seriously, my Dad in suit and tie, my Mum in pearls, going out
to vote in the evenings after work together. You'd think they
were off to an airport to greet somebody! I think it was
important for them being immigrants, like something new and
speciaI for them. I doubt that they could get to do that where
they came from, especially my Dad since he was of age back there
and running for his life. My Mum was in the "Third Reich" as a
teenager.
It's like this. A buddy and I were in a fast-food joint and a
waitress came 'round asking us if we would each like a free,
breaded chicken leg. It was a promotion. I said ya, my friend
said no. After she left, I told him that he could have said ya
anyway and given me the extra piece. I mean, when it's free .
. . . . might as well . . . .
Can't do that with a vote, though.
para . . . .
#Post#: 31404--------------------------------------------------
Re: Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: Heartsong Date: August 15, 2022, 1:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1521.msg31403#msg31403
date=1660585324]
Heartsong - ^
I figure since I gotta pay Muni, Prov, and Fed taxes, and I have
a right to a vote in each, might as well use them.
There was once when I showed up and the person at the desk said
my name wasn't on the voter's list. That was strange since it
never happened before to me (or maybe a long time ago once too),
so they asked for id. I gave my driver's license, they asked a
few questions and gave me my voting card right quick. It took
all of about 3 minutes. If not, I'd have called the Elections
Office to complain about it.[/Quote]
It's considered racist to ask for ID to vote here, you know.
[Quote]I remember my parents when I was kid getting all dressed
up, seriously, my Dad in suit and tie, my Mum in pearls, going
out to vote in the evenings after work together. You'd think
they were off to an airport to greet somebody! I think it was
important for them being immigrants, like something new and
speciaI for them. I doubt that they could get to do that where
they came from, especially my Dad since he was of age back there
and running for his life. My Mum was in the "Third Reich" as a
teenager. [/Quote]
The good old days , right?
I bet your Dad and Mum have some very interesting stories to
tell.
[Quote]It's like this. A buddy and I were in a fast-food joint
and a waitress came 'round asking us if we would each like a
free, breaded chicken leg. It was a promotion. I said ya, my
friend said no. After she left, I told him that he could have
said ya anyway and given me the extra piece. I mean, when it's
free . . . . . might as well . . . . [/Quote]
Free food. Sure, why not.
[Quote]Can't do that with a vote, though.[/Quote]
No. You can't.
#Post#: 31408--------------------------------------------------
Re: Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: KerimF Date: August 16, 2022, 12:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Kerry - ^
Trump is fine despite all weird happenings because of him.
Is he protected by the American people or even by the ordinary
ones who support him? I guess not. He is so because he still
plays his given role (well, given by those who run the deep
state :) ) very well that creates continuous controlled chaos
which, in turn, keeps most people in a state of confusion and
division, if not worse.
So one may wonder... Why his role, in these days, is still
important for the real decision makers (behind the scenes). It
is you to find out :D
#Post#: 31409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Could Democracy, as Defined, Exist in Real Life?
By: KerimF Date: August 16, 2022, 12:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1521.msg31398#msg31398
date=1660565697]
We're all "actors" aren't we? All with our stations and
roles.[/quote]
Yes we are. But there are two types of actors in life; normal
actors (as you and I) and hired actors who had to play some
given roles.
[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1521.msg31398#msg31398
date=1660565697]
We try to do what good we can where we're at.[/quote]
This applies on the normal actors in life, not on the hired ones
who have to play in a movie... or in politics ;)
[quote author=paralambano link=topic=1521.msg31398#msg31398
date=1660565697]Sometimes ordinary people can make a big
difference by coming forward with what they know. [/quote]
In politics, it is necessary sometimes to let an ordinary person
be famous (by the powerful rich decision makers) to achieve a
certain goal after which he will be put out of the game, in one
way or another.
*****************************************************
Next Page
You are viewing proxied material from gopher.createaforum.com. The copyright of proxied material belongs to its original authors. Any comments or complaints in relation to proxied material should be directed to the original authors of the content concerned. Please see the disclaimer for more details.