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| #Post#: 25252-------------------------------------------------- | |
| How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: Kerry Date: April 4, 2020, 5:01 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Was Israel in Egypt for four hundred years? Some people say | |
| that, basing it on this verse: | |
| Genesis 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy | |
| seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall | |
| serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; | |
| Notice that Egypt is not mentioned. Should we just assume | |
| that's what it means, or did the clock start ticking with the | |
| birth of Isaac? | |
| #Post#: 25258-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: paralambano Date: April 5, 2020, 8:05 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Beats me, Kerry. Give or take a century or two? | |
| What do you think about it? I wouldn't mind reading it. | |
| para . . . . | |
| #Post#: 25263-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: Kerry Date: April 5, 2020, 4:12 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=paralambano link=topic=1469.msg25258#msg25258 | |
| date=1586091911] | |
| Beats me, Kerry. Give or take a century or two? | |
| What do you think about it? I wouldn't mind reading it. | |
| para . . . . | |
| [/quote]Yes, about two centuries, I think. | |
| We are not told in Genesis 46 how old Kohath was when Israel | |
| moved to Egypt; nor are we are told how old he was when his son | |
| Amram was born, nor how old Amram was when Moses was born. We | |
| are told however how long they lived. | |
| Exodus 6:18 And the sons of Kohath; Amram, and Izhar, and | |
| Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of Kohath were an | |
| hundred thirty and three years. | |
| Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to | |
| wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the | |
| life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years. | |
| We are also told Moses was 80 when he led Israel out of Egypt. | |
| Now it's clear that Kohath didn't spend all 133 years in Egypt; | |
| and it's clear too that some of Amram's 137 years overlapped | |
| with his father's 133 as would some of Moses' years overlapped | |
| with his father's. If you add 133, 137, and 80, you get 350 | |
| years, so the total time in Egypt must be less than that. | |
| The clock would have started to tick on the four hundred years | |
| when Isaac was born; and Isaac was 60 when Jacob was born; and | |
| Jacob was 130 when he went down into Egypt. | |
| Genesis 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand | |
| took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and | |
| Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them. | |
| Genesis 47:9 And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years | |
| of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil | |
| have the days of the years of my life been, and have not | |
| attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in | |
| the days of their pilgrimage. | |
| That would be 190 years before they went into Egypt, leaving 210 | |
| to be spent in Egypt. Interestingly the word "go down" in | |
| Genesis 42:2 -- רדו -- equals 210. | |
| The 430 years mentioned in Exodus 12:40 suggests that another 30 | |
| years needs to be added on if we count the years before Isaac | |
| was born. | |
| #Post#: 25271-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: HOLLAND Date: April 6, 2020, 8:26 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=Kerry link=topic=1469.msg25263#msg25263 | |
| date=1586121137] | |
| Yes, about two centuries, I think. | |
| We are not told in Genesis 46 how old Kohath was when Israel | |
| moved to Egypt; nor are we are told how old he was when his son | |
| Amram was born, nor how old Amram was when Moses was born. We | |
| are told however how long they lived. | |
| Exodus 6:18 And the sons of Kohath; Amram, and Izhar, and | |
| Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of Kohath were an | |
| hundred thirty and three years. | |
| Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to | |
| wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the | |
| life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years. | |
| We are also told Moses was 80 when he led Israel out of Egypt. | |
| Now it's clear that Kohath didn't spend all 133 years in Egypt; | |
| and it's clear too that some of Amram's 137 years overlapped | |
| with his father's 133 as would some of Moses' years overlapped | |
| with his father's. If you add 133, 137, and 80, you get 350 | |
| years, so the total time in Egypt must be less than that. | |
| The clock would have started to tick on the four hundred years | |
| when Isaac was born; and Isaac was 60 when Jacob was born; and | |
| Jacob was 130 when he went down into Egypt. | |
| Genesis 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand | |
| took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and | |
| Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them. | |
| Genesis 47:9 And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years | |
| of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil | |
| have the days of the years of my life been, and have not | |
| attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in | |
| the days of their pilgrimage. | |
| That would be 190 years before they went into Egypt, leaving 210 | |
| to be spent in Egypt. Interestingly the word "go down" in | |
| Genesis 42:2 -- רדו -- equals 210. | |
| The 430 years mentioned in Exodus 12:40 suggests that another 30 | |
| years needs to be added on if we count the years before Isaac | |
| was born. | |
| [/quote] | |
| That sounds reasonable to me, Kerry. I wonder which Pharaoh it | |
| was that Moses had dealings with. Knowing the Pharaoh's name | |
| may help to better clinch the number of years as well since it | |
| would help to establish under which Pharaoh the social | |
| disorganization that would have occurred in Egypt after the | |
| slave revolt led by Moses. | |
| #Post#: 25273-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: paralambano Date: April 6, 2020, 2:42 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Kerry - ^ | |
| Thanks for your take on it. How is knowing the exact number of | |
| years and details important to you if it is? | |
| para . . . . | |
| #Post#: 25275-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: Kerry Date: April 6, 2020, 3:56 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=paralambano link=topic=1469.msg25273#msg25273 | |
| date=1586202132] | |
| Kerry - ^ | |
| Thanks for your take on it. How is knowing the exact number of | |
| years and details important to you if it is? | |
| para . . . . | |
| [/quote]Knowing the exact number isn't that important; but I | |
| find it interesting when people make assumptions about the text | |
| and say incorrectly that Israel was in bondage in Egypt for four | |
| hundred years. It should be a wake-up call for us if we see can | |
| make incorrect assumptions about the Bible which then lead to | |
| contradictions. It tells me to be more careful. | |
| I find it interesting too that that word adds to 210. I'm | |
| wondering too if 210 connects somehow with the 490 in later | |
| prophecies. Is there a pattern of about 70 years? | |
| #Post#: 25280-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: Kerry Date: April 7, 2020, 4:56 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1469.msg25271#msg25271 | |
| date=1586179608] | |
| That sounds reasonable to me, Kerry. I wonder which Pharaoh it | |
| was that Moses had dealings with. Knowing the Pharaoh's name | |
| may help to better clinch the number of years as well since it | |
| would help to establish under which Pharaoh the social | |
| disorganization that would have occurred in Egypt after the | |
| slave revolt led by Moses. | |
| [/quote]I have never seen the subject discussed except with a | |
| lot of speculation. Even historians seem willing to admit | |
| they're speculating. | |
| #Post#: 25286-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: paralambano Date: April 7, 2020, 8:25 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Kerry - ^ | |
| Do you mean Egypt proper by the 210? There's a reasonable sense | |
| of the 430 if you include Abraham in Egypt (as he was) and as | |
| part of the COI. Some claim that the affliction began with | |
| Ishmael's mockery. His Mum was Egyptian. | |
| In any case, what's the spiritual import of "Egypt" for you? | |
| para . . . . | |
| #Post#: 25297-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: Kerry Date: April 8, 2020, 7:02 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote author=paralambano link=topic=1469.msg25286#msg25286 | |
| date=1586265916] | |
| Kerry - ^ | |
| Do you mean Egypt proper by the 210? There's a reasonable sense | |
| of the 430 if you include Abraham in Egypt (as he was) and as | |
| part of the COI. Some claim that the affliction began with | |
| Ishmael's mockery. His Mum was Egyptian. | |
| In any case, what's the spiritual import of "Egypt" for you? | |
| para . . . . | |
| [/quote]How do you read it, P? | |
| I take Egypt as a metaphor for all the Gentile nations and read | |
| Genesis and Exodus as prophecy. Israel was always meant to | |
| intermingle with the nations to benefit them all, thus | |
| fulfilling the promise made to Abraham that all the nations | |
| would be blessed by his seed. Three exiles were ordained from | |
| the beginning. All forced Israel out of their "comfort zone." | |
| The people of Israel were apt to view themselves as superior and | |
| became standoffish with the Gentiles, failing to fulfill their | |
| mission. When they did that, they were forced into exile. | |
| The exiles into Egypt and Babylon ended, and we see the Jews had | |
| become a proud and standoffish people again in the days of | |
| Jesus. Then they were forced into the third exile. | |
| I do not see the "return" of Israel in its current state as | |
| ordained by God. Instead I think we see the Jews wanting to | |
| retreat into establishing themselves as a proud and standoffish | |
| people. My belief is they should have waited for God to | |
| determine when the third exile should end. Many Jews agree | |
| with me, and they continue to live among "Egypt" so to speak. | |
| Notice that Israel was called out of Egypt when Pharaoh refused | |
| to allow them freedom of religion. He seemed afraid they would | |
| run away if allowed to go into the wilderness to sacrifice. I | |
| don't think they would have. I think they would have made those | |
| sacrifices not to benefit themselves but on behalf of the | |
| Egyptians. I say that because of this: | |
| Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded | |
| them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, | |
| concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: | |
| Forbidding freedom of religion meant Israel was not allowed to | |
| intercede with Heaven for Pharaoh and the Egyptians. Things | |
| were at an impasse. Pharaoh's forbidding freedom of religion | |
| also made his government illegitimate. He had the right to rule | |
| in secular matters as he wished; but he stepped over a line. | |
| So then it was time for Israel to leave -- and some Egyptians | |
| went with them, including Pharaoh's daughter who had pulled | |
| Moses from the Nile. I think something similar will happen | |
| sometime in the future on God's timetable not man's -- and | |
| Israel will have fulfilled it mission with Jew and Gentile | |
| entering the kingdom together. | |
| #Post#: 25298-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: How Long Was Israel in Egypt? | |
| By: paralambano Date: April 8, 2020, 2:06 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Kerry - ^ | |
| I pretty much agree with what you wrote. I'd add that | |
| spiritually, Egypt of that day stood for sensuousness and that | |
| Israel would have had a spiritual battle on hand had they not | |
| been treated poorly. | |
| Kerry, I'm one who believes that all prophecy has been | |
| fulfilled. My view of current Israel is that it's a secular | |
| state and so I view it secularly. This counting of days holds no | |
| meaning for me as a result. | |
| I'd write more but it looks like I'm loitering perhaps. | |
| Constrained for now. | |
| para . . . . | |
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